Denzel Ward Contract & Draft Prodigy Josh Norris

to stay and give you a wide berth. During this time, there were a couple of times when I looked at my phone and they were like I had still been attached to these text threads that were, you know, exploding, But I Erica did. At one point, I could not come back with any aggression. I just sort of didn't even answer. I let it flow by. But I did very little, to be honest. We had our kids home for spring break, but I ventured up into Hollywood one evening.

You went into the city. Yes, this is the wrong drop breaking. We need some bright lights, big city, but I think it actually fits on some level. Um had a mystical time, had a nice time, that's good. That's a that's a Mark move actually is to walk around the city, usually find a place where someone was killed, uh and then do like an instagram with the you know at magic hour, you're not wrong, the lights going down,

it's you who can beat the l a light. The scene at the end of good Will Hunting where Chucky is talking to Will and he's like, you know what, the best part of my day is those ten seconds from my car when I get to your door and I hope that you're gone, and you never said anything, you just walked away. I'm the opposite of that. That's not what I want. I never want you to leave. So when I do that hypothetical ten second, all I'm

hoping for is that you're there. The word seconds to your day is believing, oh, this is the day Mark is gone. And then went to went to uh the Northeast to see about a girl. I have a men's some camp. I have a men's financial entanglements. It's not going to be easy for me to uh to go anywhere for long, right, You're not going to be just driving on a highway and a beat up Pontiac with Elliott Smith playing not in this Lifetime. He leaves a note I got to see about a girl, and it's like,

a it's a picture from camp. What is it code? The real name of that? Well just at that at this point, that is just the name of the camp. So that we did. There were a few photos of Mark is a nineteen year old or sixteen year old on the Graham and Twitter, and sometimes I'm like, oh, what's going on there? But in this case, again I just let it fly. So I think you did comment. Oh you also used to hit me up when you'd be in Hollywood or West Hollywood, and I my phone

was silent, not intentionally. I wasn't on a ghost to you or anything. I just thought, maybe you're so your social calendar is very busy. All right, enough interrogation of Mark. Welcome back, buddy. Uh, you're a mystical man. Coming up on today's show. We continue. We had Daniel Jeremiah on the program last Thursday, Mark, while you were out, because well, I know you've listened to the show since you were away, but uh, we had DJ on the show for exactly

fifteen minutes. That's what he gave us, and that's what we took. We actually took seventeen. That was a little stick it to him a little bit. He uh, well, that's why was it so brutal oriented just because he's

so peaceful. It was a good seventeen. And now today we have Josh Norris uh formerly of roade a World, now with the Underdog Network, and he is one of the top dudes in the game in the mock draft game for the draft because I mean, I'll get to it a little bit later, but he is greg statistically the greatest mock draft of all time. So we're like, oh,

that's the dude to get on the show. Yeah, you still work with him at Road to World, but he hit what I believe was the yea, the most accurate mock of all time was a year ago, and what he's done since, especially in this draft season, is just spiked the football endlessly and remind people that he's the defending champion. He takes He takes a very sixteen first round picks left year. I mean, I've succeeded with my mock draft at times where I've you know, superseded some

of the industry family. They don't put me in that statistical study, but I think I was bragging when I got like three, so sixteen is um from another place? Is there a Mark Sesler mock Draft coming? It is coming back. Um, it's gonna be a little different. It's gonna be the whole first round. But then I'm going to have an extra ten locks that go from rounds two through seven, like targeted two team player two team locks.

And also this will be offline. This will be maybe on your i G stories or you can find it somewhere else in the sports landscape. Our employer has literal interest. Little would be strong. There's there's been no discussion for the eighth year in a row about that, so no I brought it up. I brought it up to Greg privately, as like, oh, we can get the Mark Seler mock Draft back as a segment. Oh so it's not even appearing on this vehicle. That's fright. We gotta plan out

next week. We forgot about that a lot of us. All Right, we got so much to get to, let's start. But I'm happy. Like I said, Chucky, he didn't want to see will I want you to stay right here? I think that for similar reasons. But yes, yeah, well it's it's that friendship I think was like giving and um selfless, whereas Dan's is possessive, you know, and selfish. He wants you for his um interests. And that's this show. Well, differently,

wouldn't it wouldn't it wouldn't fly without you. Different people, different needs. You've accurately nailed that one, Greg, all right, let's do some news with the the first pick in the two thousand and sixteen NFL Draft, the New York j e t s Jets select quarterback Christian Hackenberg. You know, there was a news item last I thought it'd be a little fun as we get closer to the draft to use our news drop to hit on some famous in in that case with Christian Hackenberg, infamous draft picks

of the last ten years or so. There was a report recently, trying to remember who it came from, Mike Sando maybe, um, that players you know don't want to go to the Jets right now free agents, and they've tried, and they've tried, and they've tried. And that's what happens when you suck for an entire generation, When you suck for if you are a twenty if you're a twenty four year old NFL young star, twenty five year old and the Jets sucks from age twenty five, like age ten.

That kind of creates a culture around your organization. You gotta dig out at some point. The Browns are another example that they had to deal with that for a long time as well. That's changing, I think, but they're buying their way back. I mean, that's the other way you can do it. I guess right, all right, Christian Hackburg never played a snap second round pick? Does he in one of those other leagues? Now? Like USFL started, I watched a little USFL. I did not see his name.

I don't think he's there. I can't remember a pick that was so universally accepted as over the second it was made. And that was right, Like you know, conventional wisdom sometimes is right. In that case, it was all right. Let's get into the news. So big wide receiver offseason, huge trades, Tyreek killed Davante Adams, huge contracts are being handed out, and the agents of the players. Other star

wide receivers have taken note and they are strategizing. Deebo Samuel, A J. Brown Samuel of the Niners, A J. Brown of the Titans, Terry McLaurin of the commanders are all skipping offseason workouts. They want new deals. These are all second round picks and McClaren's gate is a third round pick that are playing for relative peanuts and they are performing as star players in the case of Debo, and

you could argue a J. Brown superstars. So you have a situation now where what's happening greg around the landscape of the league is creating a domino effect. And it makes you wonder two things. One, uh, has this become a summer long situation with these teams and their stars? And two could this lead to one of these players being moved as happened so often this past couple of months. They're using whatever they can right now, which isn't much to create some sort of leverage. I think all these

teams are interested in resigning these players. Terry McLaren is showing up for workouts, we should um clarify, but he's not going to do any on field work. We're not even as he's there. He's because he's a quote leader according to Adam Schefter, but he's not working out. What does that even mean? I mean, he's not gonna go on the field. But maybe I'll do some some weightlifting and whatnot that most of the leader these teams aren't

aren't working out on the field yet anyways. Deemo Samuel said he received death threats in a bunch of racist mets siges on his Instagram when he took the forty Niners UH team logo and stuff off of Instagram because he wants morening. So this is like, it's not it's not good together. I also don't think there's much risk of these guys not getting new contracts. But this is just sort of what you do and wake me up in training camp. Basically with all three of these, I'm

with you. Ron Rivera came out very strong early in the off season on Terry McLaurin being a priority for the team. I buy it. John Robinson Mike Rabel have said the same about A. J. Brown, and they have. They're a team that has to start looking at their offensive roster a little bit differently if you're getting into the later stages of Derrick Henry. I I believe that that they have the second lease cap space in the league,

but that doesn't bug me. I think look like that out Deebo Samuel, I just would like look at the way that in Kyle Shanahan's offense that when he finds the right pieces. Kyle us checked two contracts. George Kittle got paid. You think they're gonna not pay Deebo Samuel. It just seems absurd to me. It's just gonna happen that. The weird thing is that the agents are going out of their way to kind of make this an issue now. But players never get paid now entering their fourth year.

They often get paid before their fourth season, and that's in the post draft period, just because teams haven't gotten to that stuff now, which is all the more reason why I don't think this is a big deal. All three of these players don't have fifth year options because they weren't drafted in the first round. I mean they've they've all famously fell in an unbelievable draft in which the New England Patriots selected in the Keel Harry in the first round. Just pointing that out. A little similar

body type to a J. Brown. So it's gonna happen, but it would be totally surprising if it happened at this point of the year. It's the same. It's similar with Kyler Murray. I think that situation is different, but it these contracts never happened at this time of year for these types. And I would say I can't imagine it either, Mark with Deebo Samuel's that example, But I could have never imagined the Packers giving Aaron Rodgers all that money and then trading Davante Adams. That that stunned me.

So I'm like, if that can happen, any team could talk itself into a reason why they should trade a guy and you know, save a ton of money and take draft picks on that. There's two sides of that coin, right when one reason you would want to start putting this message out here now is it's possible at least other teams jump in or are speaking to the agent,

even though that's against the rules. That essentially that these players could know what type of contract that they could get from another team, and another team might even be offering draft picks leading up to the draft, and that like sets a price and it just moves the whole thing along. But it really seems like all three of these guys are going to stay with their teams because

their teams know how good they are. Right, I'm just trying to imagine a scenario where Colin Shanahan in the same you know, Soliloquy tells us that we're moving on from Deebo Samuel, but we're all still gonna tell Trade Lands he's the starter come week one. Because if the one thing they had the least cap space in the league. And I know that no one cares about that stuff, but if you move Jimmy g or you cut them, it opens up million space five and not pay Deebo Samuel.

Everyone going crazy like, oh, they're paying all this, so much money to these guys. The all the salary cap is going up, like they can figure it out. Don't feel bad for them. A J. Brown is making uh, barely more money than Byron Pringle, So I understand why these guys are agitated. Makes sense. Now to the team's blank and pay him. We'll see they well, the Browns

they're paying. They sent out a industry shaking contract to Deshaun Watson and now they've signed cornerback Denzel Ward to a five year, one hundred point five million dollar contract extension and includes over seventy one million dollars guaranteed, makes them the highest paid cornerback in NFL. History, twenty five years old. Before the season starts, He'll turn the fourth overall pick in eighteen, taking three picks after Baker Mayfield. Uh. Mark A, where are you as a Browns person be?

What do you think about this deal? I have not changed my stance on the Browns. If if anything, my interest in them just fades into the distance. Uh. I think this is this is kind of crazy because I like, I think Denzil Award is worth the money he is in all metrics wise, like the cornerbacks get paid and he's this is I have no problem with the idea of it. But if you look at their cap space next year, they have twenty nine million wrapped up in Miles Garrett twenty three and a Marie Cooper he could

be gone. We never know whatever Awards deal is and fifty four and DeShawn Deshaun Watson. That's a hundred and two million and three players and guaranteed money. I think if anything, because one thing we heard from the owners meetings, it's at the Haslem family and Andrew Berry on down have annoyed the league beyond comprehension. It's not this contract

as much as the the Watson one. But I mean, it's changing the game to some degree, but this one might a little, And to that I say, wow, wow, Like this one is so like the Browns are playing too much guaranteed money to to these players. It's making us actually have to play a contract like every other

sports league has to. Like these owners who fail upwards like continually when they own these teams, many of them go through problem after problem, including the Brown's owner off the field and on the field in terms of the coach. And yet like they dare to complain that they are in a system that's totally rigged for them to succeed at every single level, especially with the salary cap. The salary cap is not going away. They're ultimately going to

only pay to the salary cap. You could argue whether denzil Award is worth that much or not. I don't think there's much of an argument. The five for a hundred extension actually seems kind of reasonable at some point. If denzil Award is as good as we think he's gonna be, he's gonna be up three years into it that he's way too under think they're just trading guaranteed money for being able to control that cap. It, it won't be that high. Because it's a six year deal.

They can spread it around, they can change it all around. They can do that with Watson a little What about but I, but I when I look at teams, if you look at certain teams where you've got fifty plus wrapped up in your quarterback and thirty in your past rusher, it creates issues. Right. But when it's a six year contract, which this is is a five year extension off the one they had now they never mentioned that it's not really ward though, it's it's the rest of the pull

that money around and start giving them guarantees. And that's how you play the salary cap game unless you're a cheap owner that doesn't want to be paying to the cap and doing everything you can. The waves of the Watson deal will be shown with the quarterbacks to come, the justin Herbert's of the world that because what they've done here and again citing the person I spoke to about this, they've created they're creating a competitive advantage to the owners that are able to give out that amount

of guaranteed money or willing to. And if you're not great to get left behind, great, But that's not good of the game. It's not good for the sport. If you're gonna have that's that's essentially out of there. I think it'd because they're not going anywhere, because they're still gonna be making a lot of money and there's and

the fans are the ones that are gonna lose. That's to me that the concern I have as a football fan that the changing structures and the ownership and how this is all going to play out could end up leading to a upper class of NFL teams that are willing to pay that money and a lower class that are willing to just take the money that comes in for being an owner, like happens in Major League Baseball

all the time. Now. Teams don't compete, but they don't care because they still still make money off TV deals and this and that and sharing ticket revenue. The money is guaranteed here for these owners in the NFL. That TV money, that the supposedly the deal that they're reportedly going to do with Apple to do Sunday ticket like that two point five billion. Everyone gets that money. So

they're gonna have plenty of money. I would argue, like we're already at that point teams like the Cowboys, I believe, and I would throw the Eagles in there. There's a lot, but the teams that essentially haven't been rolling all the cap space over the Saints do everything they can't to spend all the money they can. They've already had an advantage. The Cowboys have had a huge advantage over the last

twenty years. They've been spending a lot more cash than a lot of other teams, and I think that continues. And I have no sympathy for the owners who can't. Let's be careful with how you put that. I don't have sympathy for the owners. I have sympathy for the fans that there could be a creative like a competitive disadvantage with cheap owners and rich owners that are willing to spend money. I just think it could be bad

for the sport. Then watch what happens with the Bengals when Joe Burrow wants this kind of money because they're they're they're a team right now that could not do that.

I guess my thing too, is like the players that are getting the guaranteed money, first of all, the teams absolutely have that money, and these are only the top, top, top players like these are owners who are just cashing paychecks, who are somehow saying, like, what, we can't pay the greatest of our players guaranteed money if they made if they if for some reason they woke up tomorrow and they had to play only guaranteed contracts, they would all be able to do it. They would all be fine. Well,

you don't know that, I'm not. I'm saying how then, also Davante Adams, Tyreek Killer moved. It's it's something We're going to see how it plays out. It has something to do with the money. When you guarantee money has to be put aside. In s Crow, there there's a whole thing financial side of this story that the Browns

move is unlocked. And I just wonder what that Joe Burrow justin Herbert, those are two names that I think of ownership that is either cheap or ownership that doesn't have a lot of money compared to these other owners. What does that mean for Bengals fans and Chargers fans In a couple of years, it's on the radar. Why did Wes walk away from the Bengals? Many reasons, but I mean, but ownership in the whole structure that you know,

handing on, handing it down to your son. I just feel like with the way the cap space is going up in all these TV deals and what's happening with the NFL, they're all so scenely wealthy, good business being an owner, like, I just don't buy that. Yeah, there's something that can spend more than others, and they've already been doing that, but I just don't buy that they'll be in trouble. All right, let's hit a couple of things here before we get to our friend Josh Norris.

UH rap sheet had this also Mary Kay Cabot that the Panthers are the leaders in the clubhouse for Baker Mayfield. This kind of popped up Friday afternoon. Greg got me nervous when we already had taped our Friday TV show, Uh, and you were driving to Vegas. But it all worked out, No no deal happened. I wonder like, well, I didn't know that we weren't supposed to go until until that morning when I was leaving the building. And at that point, Dan, you're gonna have to come back and marks and you're

like in the Homo Hobbi desert. At that point, the kids and uh Emco were going to the BTS show at Allegian Stadium and we were getting in that car. I was now gonna waits. I'm not I'm not the judging here for that. That is the right play, but it almost got me nervous. But the Athletics Joe person also reported that Baker Mayfield is quote not the only guy on the list for the Panthers. I'm wondering, Mark, what, why would the Panthers at this point or anyone goes

trade for Baker now? Would it just wait till after the draft? I don't I get that there may be you know, interest. I would say this is probably a Baker Mayfield camp push um more than it is the Panthers telling everyone how much we want Baker Mayfield, who has the exact same eighteen million dollar cap hit is Sam Donald. The Browns would have to take I think a big chunk of that money to move and no

matter what. But I don't know why you wouldn't just wait until after the first round if you're the Panthers in a courter, I don't get the sense that they're in love with the draft a bull quarterback right now. But let's say someone falls to them. You've got a guy you can bring in on a rookie contract, and you don't go for Baker Mayfield if you're out of luck or you're waiting to try to get them later and you're and you're sitting there with Sam Donald. Maybe

to save jobs, you try to get someone. But I but I can't find anything more depressing him. Verse Baker Mayfield in a quarterback competition on the Panthers after we both thought Dan that they would save our franchises. It's it tells you don't well, don't get too quite whoever you are with this draft coming up, chill a little bit. The most scenarios turn did have Sam Donald was in

this draft, he would be the best player. So would Baker Mayfield, like by leaps and leaps and bounds in terms of as a prospect when when he was coming out, Baker Mayfield would whip Sam Donald's but in a cam competition. First of all, Josh is a Carolina fan of Carolina native Josh Norris. She's coming out, so maybe we should ask him. But he's got a pretty strong theory about what the Panthers are going to do. And I think to your point, why give away that they're not going

to draft a quarterback by getting Baker Mayfield. Now, wait, you know what, even if they're not drafting a quarterback, wait until that happens. And I agree, what does that mean? Leader in the clubhouse? Like what they offered a six or they said, mate will probably offer a six if we don't take a quarterback, were willing to pay his money. I think it will happen day two of the There is no clubhouse in that scenario. Also, I we don't need to even go down this road because it's over.

But I think if you would have put Sam Donald on those Browns team, he would have had some success. I want to be so easy to tell who's the better player. I disagree, but but that's that's a conversation. Well, everyone is agreement that Donald can't play now, but look where he went last year. Also, he still has never really gotten a chance. It was but I'm not I'm not saying he's a player. But Baker had a way

better set up in Cleveland that I can. I think at some point you can watch three thousand, four thousand snaps and know if that guy can play or not. It's like Teddy Bridgewater was in that same situation as Sam Donald the year before. It looked a lot different. And and and no one is banging the drawing other than me that Teddy is like some great starter, like it looked a lot different. I don't. I think Donald is someone that the draft community, a big chunk of them,

latched onto him hard, and they have. It's been hard for people let go of the idea that he isn't still a starting quarterback. At some point we shall see, because I believe they will end up fighting each other. It's going to be Greek tragedy. Alright, moving on, time for news and notes presented by up work, where you can build a team that will build your business. Learn more at up work dot com. Alright, Stephan Gilmore, former gray beard, well always a gray beard, he has now

found a real team. It is the Indianapolis Colts who come to terms on a contract agreement with the veteran cornerback, former defensive player of the Year. The deal is worth around twenty three million. It's a two year contract. Uh. This was a secondary greg that graded out well last year on PF for instance, But certainly Gilmore provides a shot in the arm, even at age thirty one, he remains a guy that is more than capable. And they sent rock gests in away, who had been playing well

at the end of the year. Uh, and now they replaced him with Gilmore, who eventually got his money. I mean, I'm sure at some point he thought he was going to do better than two for twenty three, and I think he got about seventeen guarantee. But that's about what I would have guessed he would have gotten in the first place. He's thirty two years old, hasn't played much

in the last two years. Was solid when he played for Carolina, but barely had any games where he had more than thirty five snaps because I think he was trying to get healthy and get to the end of the season. Uh, and he was on a limited snap count. So it's a It's a good move by them, and it's a reminder. I think there's a lot of free agents left, including Honey Badger, that actually are going to

get pretty good contracts when they do sign. There's a decent amount of teams that have calv space left, and they realized there's no point in rolling it over every year like the Colts have done. I feel like that's a waste of resources and teams are kind of smartening up Chris Ballard. This is when he has talked about wanting to attack the market for this kind of deal,

this kind of player. They recruited him really hard. They view him as a huge leader and Gus Bradley, Um, it's his it's Gus Bradley type of cornerback who and I think fits in really well with Kenny Moore and the rest of the guys their lineup on defense, Darius Leonard, they traded for Yenni Conglaquay to Forrest Buckner, Bobby Okki Quitty Pay and you add Gilmore. I mean, this is a solid defense that I think sets up Gus Bradley

to you know, succeed out of the gate. I think that Steven Stephen Holder tweeted this um and I agree a lot. I agree with it that Chris Ballard is good at his job. And yes, he got the he got the Carson Wentz moved wrong. There's no way around that. But I give him credit for realizing it along with ownership it seems, and getting out of that quickly. So they get Wentz out of the building for two third round picks. They get Matt Ryan for just one third

round pick. They got rock Yes Sin out and got a proven ed rusher and returned, and now your sin gets replaced with a former defensive player of the Year. So I think the Colts. When we had a conversation earlier in the off season about the Colts and where they staid, it felt like they were really a tough spot considering how hot they got at one point during the season, and it didn't seem a lot to be

a lot of optimism. I don't know what Matt Ryan has left, but I think you're gonna enter this season with with some optimism that I wasn't expecting a month or six weeks ago. So I think they've had, on balance a pretty solid off season. They might they might not be done. There's still second in effective cap space, and like I said, I really think teams have gotten to the point where they realized rolling over all this

money is just not trying hard enough. And you know who has the most cap space now in the league effective cap space by decent amount. The Carolina Panthers can just slide in that old Baker Mayfield, you know, just slide. I'm just saying, what is it doing for you. You gotta you gotta tell all your grandchildren. And I had one chance at me and a head coach. Right, that's how this happened, I think. But it's like it's not doing anything for you, you you might as well use it.

Why not? You know, if you're the cults. Odell Beckham I think still sits out there because they need a wide receiver they go into the traff with. That is a huge need. M That was News and Notes presented by up work, the world's work marketplace. Learn more at upwork dot com. Before we bring in Josh Norris, did you have any takeaways? Mark, I know the usfl UM

launched this weekend. I've noticed by the we had having Silva on the show last week, and uh, he's given it the old over, established the run, given it the old a f treatment where they're all over the USFLS launch um. Similarly, you were that way this weekend, as I understand. I watched about about an hour of it total. But uh, I did notice that guys like Paxton lynch Um showed up on the Michigan Panthers and that that

Panthers team had nine fumbles in their loss. If there's a worse Panthers than the one that we're just talking about. There is well, at least out of the gate. The thing though, I found it fun to watch. It wasn't like awful or anything. It had. There was some good play, some up and down moments. But they have like they'll follow you'll like this from like from like. They have a drone kicker cam that when you kick a field goal like this, drone follows it towards the gold post.

It's a little bit m nausea inducing. I think they need to work on it to some degree, but it's watchable and it's it's I think some of these guys are going to end up in camps obviously, because the league totally misses a developmental league. And it's way better, way better, I think, audition than sitting on someone's practice squad right now for some of them. But then you but then you're getting some hot mess scenarios in there too.

But like the old New Jersey generals when I became a fan when the USFL melted, they used to tell all the same the same names and stuff, so it's nostalgic. It's strange too, because I don't know if they like it's not the same people. I don't even know if that there's some legal thing where they might not even have permission. They're just like calling at the USFL. Well, that's like, has nothing to do with the old thing. I want to I want one of these two work.

This doesn't seem like it has anything, uh set up better than the previous ones that didn't work. In fact, it seems like it's not set up as well. The one thing that has is broadcast agreements. It's on Foxy and NBC at the same time. What that that's kind of amazing all their games in the same adium. Kind of strange. Yeah, And there was like a weather delay for the most Monday night here because it was rocked

out of existence during the weekend because of weather. That's getting a lot out of the fan base there to just go to games all the time. Get comfortable, guys. Well, the Eastern Sunday kickoff was in front of an essentially empty stadium and people kind of came in for the second half side. And by the way, if you want to learn more about the USFL, about a decade ago, UM thirty, the ESPN series had a special on UH the league called Small potatoes. Who killed the USFL. The

answer was a former president. Yes it was this country, but I won't let you know who it is. And it wasn't Richard Nixon or Gerald Ford. That those are the ants games Ford gets to zero. You have to piece the rest of it together. That's what's happening in the news, all right. Coming up next, Josh Norris talking draft after the break, a responsible break, Welcome back to

around the NFL, joining us now former bricklayer. Now he's doing his own thing at the Underdock Network dot com content strategy and production and one hell of a mock drafter. It's Josh Norris, that's a body and Mark greg third time caller, longtime listening to beautiful people. So glad to join you. Oh, it's great to have you, Josh. We've

already at the top of the show. And by the way, excellent lighting over there at the Underdog Network with the exposed brick behind you that your house are you're at work right now. This is a lovely Brooklyn brick. I mean that is Americans. You're filming a Dungeons and Dragon special or something. It's intriguing. Starts when the sun goes down. Mark you look like you're taking a portrait um for like uh an off Broadway show that debuting in Nashville. Well,

actually Josh Norris playing the role of Hamlet. The last thing on this Josh, but it's really it has to happen now that it's in my head. Can you do the thing where you're kind of looking into the middle distance with like a half smile. Let me make sure I love this perfect great podcast audio content. Right, you can check it out on your YouTube. Everybody, Josh, listen, you did it. You did the damn thing last year.

You want to talk about brand building, you want to talk talk about establishing where you land in this landscape of the draft mock drafts. You nailed sixteen of thirty two first round picks last year, and that's brilliant. The entire top ten, the entire and that is something is how is that possible? And you wrote and a great piece where you did your mock draft one point oh that you have to nail that top ten and then find quote random player and team fits from number sixteen on.

So there's a strategy. And I'll also say that, like I was watching your live you know, YouTube show, and I like how your process. It's logic based but investigative in nature, and you know there's knowledge involved that you need, but also bread crumbs and red string dot connecting. Like how you know that Ron Rivera doesn't like to leave his house, so when he does, that matters to the commander's draft board. Really bravo, Josh, Well, it's all wire tapping,

that's all it is. Dan. I will add though, and I think you know this from growing up with Jets. Mark knows that us from growing up the Browns. Like if there's some level of cohesion in terms of decision makers on a team, like you kind of get to

know their process a little bit. And you know, when I was seven years old, the Panthers came to Charlotte and I just became obsessed with them and I started to kind of figure out how they built their roster, which directions they were going with, whether it be you know, Marty Hernie, Dave Kettleman and now Scott Fitterer or so.

All I thought was, well, one, let me ask some beat writers in the top ten, but also let me found like the Josh Norris is from across the other fans of those teams, right, ones that are obsessed from a young age. And see what they think lack top nine the top ten picks. This is what happens when you get an underdog fantasy ad that place pretty often. Just saw it on NFL Network last weekend. It's basically

been going. It was sometimes on Thursday Night Football and like it's pretty good, Josh places, Yes, getting big head here. I do have to ask you this because the mock draft um community, a subset of humanity, is so competitive that when you nail nine nine out of ten picks, are you are there? You know, veiled threats are there? Um? Have you dodged assassination attempts? It sounds like you're a

hated person through a window. Silva is not enjoying you, like celebrating and spiking the football this whole pre draft process season. That is true. They think, actually get rid of the bit when they just carry on bits, you know, for three years. At this point, Mark, I'll give you a honest answer. I now work for a fantasy sports

company that gives away millions of dollars to people who win. Um, when I hit sixteen and thirty two, the greatest mock draft ever of like eighty four million, that I've been published. I turned to my girlfriend and I tell her that this achievement, a lifelong dream has happened. And she asked, what did you win then? Because you company gives away all this stuff, right, absolutely, zero zero dollars in my bank account of all this. Of course that happens to me.

I finally achieved greatness. But you know, you could be put some money up for this. You don't work at the NFL. You're not restricted like us, so you could have been putting your own UH cat shot on the line here and you would have done well if if you had done that. That's not what it's about, Greg. What it's about for Josh is the work and the reward is she's still your girlfriend. She's about away from so, I said, I, you know, seemed unimpressed with the feet.

Hey baby, Well what anyway? All right, let's get into it. Greg, you had you had an idea here based off some over unders who provided these over under Well, we can go off the fan duel since that's an official UH sponsor of us if we want. But I thought it'd be fun to go through some over unders because you're good at Josh obviously getting a feel of where these guys are going to go. Uh, and it'll just give us a chance to kind of talk about each one

of these players. One of the guys who I think was really noteworthy on your mock draft falling far was Kyle Hamilton's all the way to eighteen. His over under now is all the way up at least on fandal to ten and a half. Um. This was a guy that was in the top five almost exclusively in the early mock drafter days of March. Obviously he struggled with the forty time and pro day that doesn't go well. Uh, and maybe that's why we're seeing him slipping some mocks.

Washington picks at eleven, which is a potential landing spot, which is why that number is at ten and a half. What are your thoughts there? I just don't consider safety

from a team's perspective like a pillar position. And this top ten is loaded with, you know, players at those cornerstone spots offensive tackle, pass rusher, cornerback, heck even even wide receiver and cal Hamilton's, like you said, number eleven does make a lot of sense, but again, it's just serving where those teams and who's already on the roster and what the investments have been in the top ten already,

and I don't necessarily see it. I could side maybe with like the Minnesota Vikings, if they think like their safety room was getting a little bit older, I could look at even that. Then that's over. To answer your question, I'm I'm I'm leaning the over on tin half has nothing to do with cal Himton as the player. I think it's more of the position. Despite you know, more and more too high shells that we hear you guys and everyone talking about all year long, seventeen one of

the greatest safety prospects of all time. Right, I agree with you, and and so just to answer your question quickly, over to in half is where i'd be leading it. I've got to ask you, because you're leading the way. I mean, we're starting to hear more buzz that Malik Willis is visiting with the Lions. Some wonder if that

could be their second pick or the first. He's not going to be there when they pick second, obviously, are you looking at Malik Willis and thinking, uh, look at this is there's a chance And by second I mean their second pick after the first round, right, Like, do you think that you have a number two Detroit, that this is a reality that's becoming more and more. What is over under Malik will nine point five, which feels steeply too rich. I think he's going before that in

my book. Okay, So the more I get like diving into this, and the closer we get, the more I think that like the Pittsburgh Sailors at pick number twenties, the first team to take a quarterback, and they kind of showed their hand last year with Nazi Harris and that pick was you know, solidifiding stone early on um I firmly and I think you guys just finished talking about this. Baker Mayfield or Jimmy Garoppolo with the Panthers at number six, that seems far more likely. Maybe the

Seattle Seahawks. The last time they selected, you know, near this range was pick number fifteen. That was a complete out of nowhere selection. And then they've done you know, similar things throughout this time over the years. So the closer we get, the more I think that. Obviously, with the last year of general manager in Pittsburgh, he has viewed how he rose, how he Alsik news to excuse me what he did in Baltimore and said, look, he left a lasting legacy with Lamar Jackson and his quarterback.

I woant to do that here with Mitch Robinsky and then the rookie quarterback at number twenty, and that could easily be moliqu willis there at that selection. You have, I like this going a little deeper into the first round with the team I think is the best team in football right now, and you're doing like your strategy match team needs with players on the board. There's a lot of smoke connecting the Bills to a running back.

You have Breece Hall Iowa State going overall. You know, it does make me think about what was the last unstoppable offense that said, oh, let's take a luxury piece in the backfield to kind of bring this thing all together. Clyde Edwards a layer to the Chiefs, and that hasn't quite worked out. But that doesn't mean that another team that has a similar ceiling can't try the same thing. The Bills they're looking for that last piece. Where is

he at Breece Hall on this list, He's done. I'm the fan duel interesting, So you tell us more about your thinking there. It's exactly what you're saying, Dan, and I think part of that is with the clarity layer selection at what picked thirty two a couple of years ago, if he had just pivoted over to Jonathan Taylor, I think we'll be praising that selection, right. And so really, these teams only have to be honest with us through

their draft picks and through their wallets. Like you hear this all the time when they go up there at the combine and they just lie to you over and over and over again. They just lied to you. And so with the Bills, they paid j. D. Mckissic handsomely. That was a contract that was agreed to. That is the type of of talent that I think it is kind of tough to find a hybrid running backs last wide receiver who thrives on explosive plays and in the receiving game. And so there aren't gonna be many of

those in this draft class. Maybe a couple later on, like James Cook Dalvin Cook's brother. But if this team wants to make a strength even stronger in the Buffalo Bills and had some true explosion on top of you know what, some positive things they've seen a little bit at their running backs about briest Hall makes a ton of sense, but I wouldn't you know, I would assume Greg that like the over under in terms of running back is a half, right, Like you either are in

and back going around one or you're not. And if one is, it's definitely gonna be briests Hall because his vision explosive plays are really something special. Right. It's still early in the in the process. There's like there's things up about first running backs being selected, different things like that. Can I just say, Mark and Josh little housekeeping here internal, but we feel comfortable with you. Mark. You know, the NFL has some strict, you know, guardrails with what we

can access inside the building they do. I try to access this link that has the over unders and I got hit with some type of firewall, and yet Greg breaks through, and again it's asking questions where fact I'm also broken through. I think you have a WiFi issued Dan that's you need to be connect. So we talked about I had to get off the internal one. If you sign into the guest WiFi, it works, which is crazy because we're taking, we being the NFL, tens of

millions of dollars from these companies one little note. In the old days, when you go to a site that was illegal on any form, not you know, gambling or beyond inside the building, a big NFL official would show up blowing the whistle. This is act that that is a that is a true I see, I'm not. We can't get into this stuff, um, but if we could, Uh, if what I was in Vegas this week instead of just walking right past that sports book, which is what I did right back up to the room. Good boy,

But just look, I didn't forget it. Ignore it doesn't exist. You're gonna walk the kids to bats and then I'm gonna walk back. Well, Plus an NFL employee will be shot on site if you walk inside Saturday night. I think Desmond Ritter going in the first round feels like the surest of sure things that right now has like

even odds. Essentially, his over under is the end of the first round, and I feel like the closer we get to the draft, the things that people like about Desmond Ritter um matches up with what NFL decision makers like, like, oh, he changed the culture. He's a winner, Like he's impressive in the room, which is which is all great, Like that stuff matters he won and all that, but it also matches up with what all the tape heeds love like.

Of all the guys in this draft, I think he's the guy that tapeds look at and say, Okay, he's going through his progressions, Okay, he's showing a little bit of anticipation here. Okay, I don't know how good he's gonna be, but he's athletic, so at least there's some upside there. He's an NFL quarterback. If there's one quarterback in this draft that, like we sort of know will at least be on a contract eight years from now

on a team, it's Desmond Ritter. And that's why that over for getting into the first round and and believing that he will get taken maybe first out of all the quarterbacks, but certainly in the top thirty, seems like a very strong pick to me, what do you agree?

And to make this a bigger point, I think because you know, draft season starts back in December and January, and a lot of these lists from really great people come out, they have, you know, rankings that really firmly at let's say, can you pick it, Malik willis above the rest and even at the tackle spot. It's a give Kwana and Evan Nel above Charles Cross once you get to draft weekend. Part of the reason we love

it is because they're shock. There's all, there's unpredictability other than my mock draft, and then that's when all the fun happens. And so it wouldn't be shocking to see Desmond Red the first quarterback off this list. I think Matt Corrall has a chance of being the first quarterback off this list. The big difference here between this group and I'm sure you've had someone talked about this already and other ones, is like there's no one that does

everything well. You know, des inaccuracy is prevalent everywhere. Matt Corrall is like a confident Marcus Mariotta in terms of his r p O s and only ran about like eighty eight snaps of three to seven step drops and that's about it. Can you pick it? At the NFL level? Is going to have to win inside of structure, working through his progressions, but he never did that really during his time at Pittsburgh. He wanted to escape the pod.

Get to pick it Love's and then Malik Willis is someone who has fantastic ath let us is m almost the anti Lamar Jackson terms of love throwing downfield and outside the numbers, but the middle of the field is

like a complete blind spot. So any one of those and I think, really, Greg, what it comes down to is these teams are going to fall in love with the person of one of these quarterbacks, like build a relationship whose last three months with one of these quarterbacks, and that's the one they want to attach them to. And Ritterer, by all accounts, might be that one that was like a long way to say, yeah, I'm not

loving your theory that much. To that would be I think like two and a half quarterbacks is the over under right now in round one? I would I would take the under on that. Yeah, I think I might too, But I think I just like think Ritterer Ridder goes top thirty. There's obviously going to be a run on wide out once the first comes off the board. Garrett Wilson ten point five. There's obviously two great guys from Ohio State with Crystal Love too. Is Wilson your number

one guy? And does he go over under ten point five? I've got the Jets sitting there at number ten. I like using the decimal ten point five. I like that, Well, that's another way to state it. Go ahead, it's mathematically accurate on on pick ten. And really, what is it picked for their other first round selection? Yes, I think

it says. I think there's a sandwich prop to be laid out here that the gent will absolutely take a wide receiver with one of those two picks, because they've shown their hand throughout all their trials and tribulations in this season. They had a deal agreed with for Tyreek Kill. They definitely kicked around DK Metcalf. They this is something they've been trying to make happen and it hasn't yet, so I think this is going to be the road they go. And also in on Calvin Ridley potentially a

Mark Cooper they were possibly in that deal. So once against the paper trail that we're following with where these teams want invest I think ten at the Jets absolutely is a possibility. It wouldn't totally shock me if the Jets want to start this wide receiver run and it's

the number four overall selection. The difference here Mark is like all these wide receivers do different stuff, and like Garrett Wilson is your true is so ball d you up one on one wide receiver, wins with separation, creates separation, and then you know sustains it versus like Jamison Williams just coming off an injury, who was like true vertical juice speed down the field. And then you have the other ol House state wide receiver and a few others in Drake London at USC, so on and so forth.

But yeah, I'm with you ten and eleven. I would be surprised if by that point we don't have two wide receivers. But ted and has an interesting number there, I would think he might. I would just say go because it just would be surprising if receivers were taken before that. So you're almost certainly there could be a surprise since maybe at eight as the Opkins, maybe, but you're in a draft where it seems like five or six different teams might have five or six different guys

as their top receiver. You're kind of buying in that Garrett Wilson is sort of a consensus one which I don't think is is really the consensus. So I would just take your chances that maybe he ends up slipping and not be that ten. I think it's really saucy in general, some of the dot connecting you've done here with the wide receivers, because you got Jamison Williams to the Chargers at seventeen and I love that, and you wrote about make a strength stronger Mike Williams with Keenan

Allen and Jamison Williams, we are on fire. And then you do the move that you know this was. Ah, it's a good dot connect because what are the Packers gonna do here? You know, they just they just went out and they got Sammy Watkins, but then a report came out that he's not even starting to make the roster. Obviously they need more uh, and you have them double dipping with Treylon Burke's and Christian Watson. It makes sense because they have to kind of go in big here.

I feel like to justify moving Aaron Rodgers, big guy out of the room. And you have to hit on one of these guys to make them a credible Super Bowl offense. So if my life is now devoted to retaining my title of mock draft stardom, I have to hit on one of these wide receivers at the end of round one. And we all firmly believe at least for one of these spots for the Packers, they will take one. So yes, you mentioned Traylon Burks at twenty

two with their second first round pick. I had them taking Christian Watson coming out of North Dakota State, and the two are very different. I mean, Traylon Burks was kind of manufactured touch like player. And if we're splitting Davante Adams in half, which is a dangerous thing to do, um he was worth in the NFL in his screens last year. Immoral to do that. Sports don't matter that if you if you're gonna split him into point five,

you gotta better realize there is some legal josh. Not everyone is just for you to play your little lab games. So he had a lot of manufactured touches and r p O s and so Traylon Burks, that's the area where he might shine with this offense. And if we're trying to replace an MVS or a vertical playmaker with you know, a lot of athleticism than Christian Watson, who did some of that manufacturing touch stuff in North Dakota State, would fill that as well. But then you have names

like sky Moore coming out of Western Michigan. You have George Pickens, who really shine during his freshman year at Georgia than a time. It took a downturn from there. So I don't know, Greg, it's probably what seven six and a half wide receivers six point five coming off the board there in in round one. Um, I'm starting

to lean the over, especially DJ. Like DJ thought that was the one thing he felt confident was receivers is going off fast and fierce because they seem like the best players, or at least and the depth of them seems like the best. I mean, Traylott Berks maybe has a lot of Randall cop to him, a bigger, better version, and you're hoping even if you take them in the first round. But that that to me makes sense with

the pack. My buddy Dame Burgler mentioned that he played around two d and forty pounds last year, much bigger, much chiled down about twenty pounds off of him of US two and we'll do it much better next. It is unlikely, let's be real here, that you report to your significant other after this draft that you've nailed sixteen again, that it's the thing if you're setting up that this

is what you're doing. You're so I was ask you, I'm gonna put your over under let's be real thirteen and a half point Well no, but how much this is your this is your claim to fame. Well, he has to bang me over because he's trying to sell subscriptions and all sorts of things. Well, you know, we're

just for the people. It's free content out there, Dan, I will say this to take it upon me like the seventy two Dolphins from here on out, as long as no one brave, yes, setting yourself up for disappointment to try to repeat as that guy is almost it's it's almost impossible. So that's maybe part of the reason why he's been so ostentatious with Bragg. He's enjoying it now while he can. He knows it's it's all gonna end. It's like Miss Universe. No one cares once you get

to the end of that year. But you've got to enjoy that one year going around the world, and that's it. We won Best New Sports Podcast Podcast for Apple in two thousand twelve. I don't think we've We've won maybe one other awards since then, But you never take that away from us. We're always the best new sports podcast of two thousand. That's you, Like, nothing could ever change that you once got half of an entire first round, right, I do want to know. I'm curious because I would

be the same way. Um, I'm not saying you are, but maybe you were. You got nine out of ten in the first round. Who is the team that banged you and that you declare vengeance upon for keeping you from going ten for ten? Uh? Last year is the Denver Broncos. The Denver Broncos took Patrick sir tan and I had them taking Rashawn Slaver. But yeah, not gonna tend. It really is all about and so we can open up the formula here while we're in the labs them.

So last year's top ten was pretty easy to pick when you consider that there was rarely any you know, defensive players considered as high draft prospects, and if they were going to be, it was gonna be only two cornerbacks. So you basically had five quarterbacks to choose from, three wide receivers to choose from, two offensive tackles, and then one random tight end and that was it. So like the number of picks, basically sorting ten of fifteen players

versus this year. You have corners, you have edge, you have wide receivers, you have maybe a quarterback and maybe not. So this year is just there's much fourteen. It's your number. I also, I wouldn't walk around demystifying what happened last season because you're taking away from your your own myth building. We we don't, We'll take that out of the show. And you also have the consents one and two were locked and loaded. So I'm gonna keep that. I'm gonna

because we'll come back to the Saturday night. I am going to set Josh is over under at and I wish I had the data for what he had the year before as a return to the average, But I'm gonna say I'm gonna set it at eight and a half. Tom. That's what I was thinking, even that even that at. It's a tough draft, and it's not a shot against you. You're obviously uh Studley in this realm. But I think it's just gonna be a tough night for the whole

in an underwhelming selling point. Though for you. I tried to lift it up just to say say you're gonna do it. No one's gonna know anyway. So before before you let you go, I do want to just a couple of comments, A couple of comments. I'm just saying, Derek Stingley to the Seahawks, I just can see that. I just talking talk. That was amazing. I'm just saying, I'm giving that an award for the best mock pick

that you had. The second I saw that, I was just like, Oh, yeah, that's that's such a Seahawks type of move, Jordan Davis, you have going eight and that's the other one, even more than Ridder that to me, the over unders still doesn't seem high enough. I think it's at thirteen and a half right now, Josh, doesn't. It just seem like there's no way the NFL is letting him go that far? Just quickly on him. I mean, he legitimately is the most athletic prospect to ever enter

the NFL. Ever in a draft where no one's excited about anyone, where Trey Von Walker could go one just because people are looking for a home run, so he could go top five, I feel like, who the hell knows? And we've seen, you know, Derek Brown go top ten at Oliver go top ten, at differen Starck quentnin Williams go top ten. I really liked a lot of those evaluations.

And I understand that you know, he played about twenty seven snaps per game, But if you want to acquire a talent at like six six three forty of Jordan Davis, you can't sign that in for agency. This is like a new kind of prospect that we've never seen before. So I just don't understand and maybe it happens how that falls out of top ten when, like you said, there's so many questions this year and it's quote unquote a poor draft. And then you mentioned you're like Mr

Panther's expert. Um. I thought you've had a good theory about kind of what they're thinking in terms of quartering. You you've thought that they were maybe getting Baker this whole time, and that the quarterback stuff is smoke. Uh and now it's looking as we get closer like that that seems correct. But what why do you think that? Oh? For a number of reasons, One like that they've missed out on veterans these last two years, like that's where they put all their eggs. Right, was a Matthew Stafford

trade and Deshaun Watson trade. Heck, even hoping for Aaron Rodgers. And I just don't know how a team could bypass the evaluations of Justin Fields and Mac Jones and say, oh, yeah, these guys are definitely better this year than they were

last year. And when you consider that Scott Fitterer traded out during his first year as GM four times, and this year they don't have a pick in round two or round three, and so like having more darts, having more selections, and they're gonna get fired if they draft a rookie quarterback who can't play right away. Right, so

where we're a long way from mutual disinterest. Also, I'm wondering, like, so they're enamored with what Baker Mayfield has put on tape overall, I mean, I don't know if Baker Mayfield saves your job either, to be honest, no, but I think the chance. This is also a a owner that

does like to put his fingerprints on things. And while the early Teddy Bridgewater experiment was supposed to be a two year plan that turned into anyone but Teddy, So we bring in Sam and now it's turned into anyone but Sam, so now you bring in either Baker Mayfield or Jimmy Garoppolo, and it's just very clear that they don't want to sit through the growing pains of whatever rookie they put in the tough time here for Panthers.

And then you have it. You have them going after offensive line, which is that's kind of like a key with everything with that team. If you want any quarterback to thrive, you better do a better job up front as well. Josh, you said it all and and I will say this, you're predicting fourteen. Um, you had sixteen

last year. I hope you do sixteen again or higher because if you can, if you can get to that, if you can do two years in a row, you could build an entire you you can take everything behind a paywall at that point retire, right, Well, you gotta cash in one at this point. Yeah, you you have to demand Underdog does pay you a million dollar bonus like they pay these other things you're doing the I mean, I'm sure they're not giving you Are they giving you

extra for those ads that I see? That's business? You know, you're commercials, You're a commercial superstar. You're nailing these mocks underdog has to step to the plate, is what I'm is I'm saying, but he needs to have sixteen more right. They're waiting to see what he does exactly, and the a t n Odds makers said at eight and a half. But don't take that A is us doubting you. That's just some You have to set the odds somewhere. I'm hoping you get point five in the draft. Correct again, Mark,

I appreciate your optimism most of all. I'm on your side, Josh, Thank you very much, buddy. Keep up good work, buddy, and you check out Josh Norris at Josh Norris and at Underdog Fantasy. A delightful conversation, a fun guy and obviously knows his stuff all all getting aside, that's really good what he did last year and and reading his

content this year, all that kind of makes sense. Sometimes it doesn't follow logic, though, draft night, because all it takes his one team to do something insane and everything gets what if he gets that would be we'd have to bring him on again, because that would be electric. I feel like he was, like I'm trying to remember

when he started at road World. He definitely was one of those that where he just kept emailing Evan's silva every day until he just like wore him down, and Evans how to do it had like was forced to hire him. I think he also that's a great thing to say about him after No. No, I mean it was one of the best moves Evan ever made. He recognized that, but it took that sort of persistence and just like, never give up, don't ever give up. Mark says.

I also would say one other thing that ten point five when we are talking about picks in the draft, is different than points. I don't call point spreads seventeen point five. That's seventeen and a half in a college wipeout type scenario. But ten point five in this I think is is apt. Yeah. No, it was. No, it's not wrong. It was just it wasn't It was a little unorthodox, jarring to you that, But that's fine. It's good to have you back. Marks. It was like last

week was a nightmare. I was stuck with Greg. I'll by myself a great time last week. I'm happy to have this job. We will be back on Thursday, and we have one more TV show before we go on a hiatus on Friday. So if you haven't seen it yet. First of all, thanks, yeah, good for you. Thanks your part. That's that's cool. But you have one last chance not to disappoint us. On Friday, the around the NFL broadcast on NFL Network. Check your local listings. Uh, we got

a text Shreeger. I don't know if Sugar knows that we're on California time, because every once in a while, Strigg's will send a text at you know, four in the morning. But it's nice to wake up to it. And uh and he's, oh, your show was on at three am today? It was, And it's Monday for a show we taped Friday morning, three m are it's you know, it's maybe a little bit out of time at that point, but still it's good to be on TV. I guess I think it got such a response over the weekend,

just like, Wow, these two guys are hot. Let's just put him put him on NonStop until bit baby. All right, Thank you everybody. Thank you to Ricky x Erica, You're welcome, guys. That was great. I didn't respond that. Did I think about that. We're going to have to create in the next a little while. That will be uh something to work on um. All right, I didn't responded that thread yet. I realized I probably should to not get back into

a an awkward place with Peter Schrieger. I really I really respected what he wrote and what he had to say. It just was early in the morning when I read it. Right right now anyway, was actually probably awake at that time. Well, I also wasn't on me. I wasn't on the episode, so what will I You know, it did not involve me. Maybe that's why he was watching. That's true, Erica, But

all right, that's it. Dan has a signing off for a Quiet Storm, the Old Boss, Ricky Hollywood, Randy chav great Digger, Sean Kelly, break out star something Josh Norris. Of course, thank you, buddy for joining us. Till Thursday he had the call