Commissioner Roger Goodell (Part I)

hundred and eighty in free bets. If your team wins, that's promo code d K one for fifty six to one odds at Draft Kings sports Book, an official sports betting partner of the NFL. Twenty one plus smino mage and location requirements vary by jurisdiction. See DraftKings dot com slash sports Book for the full list of requirements and state specific responsible gaming resources. Boyd were prohibited gambling problem Call one hundred gambler in Tennessee call or text the

t N RED nine nine. In Connecticut call seven eight nine seven seven seven seven, or visit CCPG dot org slash chat in New York call eight seven seven eight hope in why or text hope and why four six seven three six nine. Up Work is the world's work marketplace. Empower your business and hire the world's most in demand developers, designers, project managers and more at www. Dot up work, dot com. Hi commissioner, How are you hire? You ready? I'm ready?

Are you ready? I was fortunate growing up in Canada where I played flag football and touch football. Growing up, it was offered at my high school from the two yard line that as left. It was a very competitive sport. The guys would come watch ustin we would go watch them. And when women's tackle football started in in two thousand, I raised my hands that I want to do this. I've been playing non contact for so long, for my

whole life. I want to see what it's like to put on the pads and and learn how to take a hit. And so, uh do you remember your first hit? Oh? God, I remember my first hit. I remember my coach teaching me that I need to learn how to take a hit. And I think as I progressed in my career, I learned really how to take a hit. I'm I'm five five and was one thirty at the time. So for me to take a hit from you know, a three town woman was something I needed to learn at a

at a young age in my career. But I loved it. Hi, I'm Sam Rappaport and this is earning it the NFL's Forward Progress. It's a podcast about football and so much more. I had this idea to create a pipeline to give women with smart, talented football minds a shot at football jobs in the NFL. In just five years, we've created

almost two hundred opportunities for women. We'll be talking to some of them this show, along with many other great football minds, NFL head coaches, general managers, owners, incredible female trailblazers who happened to be passionate NFL fans like Billy gene King. Every generation has their trailblazers, every generation has their first and it's really, really hard. I'm living my lifelong dream and I can't wait to take you along

for this ride. As Senior Director of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion at the NFL, I've made up my mission to bring more women into the fold so we can continue to move the needle for future generations. So let's start at the beginning, which in this case happens to be on a high school football field in the suburbs of New York City. That's where I met my producer, Jane. She's a veteran journalist and a fan. I thought I

knew a lot about football. I grew up as a huge fan All Brothers season tickets to the Chicago var since nineteen seventy two. I've been to a lot of football games in my life. I also happened to be married to Roger she means Roger Goodell, the NFL commissioner, my boss, actually my boss's boss's boss. They've been married for twenty four years and have twin daughters who seemed to have inherited this passion for football. The way they

understand the game. It's not just as a fan. They really understand the game from a football perspective, and it amazes me. The three of us sat down in the Commissioner's office, right next to the Lombardi Trophy to talk about the important role women are now playing in this sport and how we can create more opportunities for them.

I grew up my parents put me in ballet and tap dance and jazz dance and if you know me right now, that's really funny because you know, really when when I became a teenager, I kind of flipped and and and really football was was my love and so my parents really fostered it. They It was never I never got asked, you know, like, oh, you're a girl, how are you going to play? Or how is this

going to be a challenge? And I remember the first time I played tackle though, my mom said, AV I just need you to go with her the first time, like I need to know that she's not gonna you know that nothing bad will happen to her. And he came to my first tryout with the Montreal Blitz in two thousand and one, and I remember he came back saying, it's fantastic. Great, like she got rocked a few times,

but it's fantastic. A lot of listeners may not know this, but they are very vibrant female professional tackle football leagues in North America. I played quarterback for two years for the Montreal Blitz in the i WFL. And he got to see you play. He did. Yeah. He Um my dad passed away about seven years ago, but um, he got He traveled to all of my away games in the United States, So he would leave work at five pm.

He would drive thirteen hours straight, watch my game for three hours, drive thirteen hours back, and he never missed an away games. Um, and so he would he would film my games as well, and he did the play by play. So if you watch all my game tape, it's Rappaport with a bootleg to the left, and you know he was doing his best job. Michaels those play by play calls earlier in the episode US, Yeah, that was him. And he was so into the sport and

so into my involvement. And he was an orthodonist and his patients would get really annoyed with him that he would talk about my playing career so much. Hey, Sam, I've never been able to ask you this question, but you're comments here. Was it the contact that you loved about the game? Was it the strategy? What was it about the game of football that you love playing? I think there are two things. The first for me was,

you know, I work in diversity, equity inclusion. Now, when you look at a football team, it takes so many different types of people and athletic abilities to win. If you look at other sports like basketball, they're all tall and skinny, right if you look at um every other sport there's a traditional makeup of a person. And when I started playing football, there were girls of all shapes and sizes, every athletic ability. You don't have to be fast, or you could be fast. You don't have to be tall,

or you could be tall. And I loved how it brought people together from such different athletic backgrounds and backgrounds together on one field. That was something I loved about it. The other thing, which is why I'm so passionate about getting girls to play, is because I was pretty average at most sports, and I felt really good at football.

And so, as a young girl growing up who's developing her confidence, having something that defined me and that made me feel like I was good at something, that's what made me fall in love. And I think every kid really should find that thing that makes them tick and that they love. It strikes me. So we know you're as a competitive person. We love to compete, and I know that came out in you in sports. You could see it when you walked on the football field, even

competing against yours Truly, you got really competitive. And I am too. I see that in you. But I also see that you use that in what you do every day for the NFL. The way you compete, you're competing, you're making us better, You're trying to win, You're trying to accomplish something, and you do it really with what I call a lot of values about football, which our teamwork and perseverance and going through adversity. All these things you've had to deal with to build the pipeline that

you've built. That's all about football, right. You probably learned a lot of those lessons on the football field, and that's what I That's where I'm really interested. Do you use what you've learned on the football field in business, because I know I do, no question. As a quarterback, sometimes you need to have a game face on when you know things aren't going well. But the other ten people on the field, you have to show them that

you got it. And I talked about this sometimes is when I'm very nervous and I'm leading something, I will appear as if I got it because that is what I had to do in the sport of football. And people buy into that and they believe that, and I'll rag on you later. So I don't mind this compliment that I'm gonna give you, But one of my favorite things about your leadership here is that you set the bar so high, and so for me, that's almost like a coach mentality. You're telling me what you expect of

me and everyone else who works here. I want to get there. I want to be at that level. But that's part of what you do to get better. Right. The objective is not for you to play alone. You're playing with teammates and your objective is to win. And it's a team sport. So the lessons I learned on the football field are completely relatable to everything I do

as a commissioner. It's all those values of teamwork and adversity and perseverance and diversity in the sense of everybody has a roll, everybody has a way to contribute to a bigger purpose of winning and competing is something I love. I love people who compete. Can I tell you one more thing I love about this sport. There's no other sport where every single person on the field is responsible for the success of a play. It's never just the

wide receiver who caught the touchdown. It's never just the quarterback. It has to be all eleven people working in unison to make it happen. And basketball, you can steal the ball and fast, breakdown and lay up and that was all you. Right, there's nothing that's all you. And I know that's important to you as a leader as well, is you never make anything about you. I'm gonna try to make this about you, but you never want to

make anything about you. So that high school football field I mentioned at the top, it's where Roger Goodell played football and where my lifelong dream became a reality. Not in an instant, mind you. This is no overnight success story, but it is a great story. This podcast is sponsored by Kendroll. Kendrell designs, builds, manages, and modernizes the mission critical technology systems that the world depends on every day.

Working side by side with their customers, they imagine things differently. By forging new strategic partnerships, they unlock new possibilities, creating a world powered by healthy digital systems alive with opportunity, oxygen to innovation, and energy to change the world. Kendrell

the heart of Progress. We're onto the divisional round of the NFL Playoffs with Draft Kings sports Book, an official sports betting partner of the NFL counting down to Super Bowl fifty six, New customers can get fifty six to one odds on any team that just five dollars and get two d and eighty in free bets if your

team wins. Download the Draft Kings sports Book app now, use promo code d K one and get fifty six to one odds on any NFL team that's just five bucks and when two hundred and eighty in free bets. If your team wins, that's promo code d K one for fifty six to one odds at Draft Kings sports Book, an official sports betting partner of the NFL. Twenty one plus SMINA. Mage and location requirements vary by jurisdiction. See DraftKings dot com slash sports Book for the full list

of requirements and state specific responsible gaming resources. BOYD were prohibited gambling problem called one hundred gambler. In tennessee call or text the t N Redline eight eight nine nine seven eight nine. In Connecticut, call eight eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven, or visit CCPG dot org slash chat. In New York call eight seven seven eight hope and Why, or text hope and Why for

six seven, three six nine. Like me, the Commissioner has been football obsessed for as long as he can remember. He used to sleep with a leather football instead of a Teddy bear. He says. The person who drove him to get better was his mom, Jeanie Goodell. They were very close and the Commissioner lived with her until the day she died of breast cancer. Asked him to talk about their relationship. Oh, geez, we are You're not hitting me hard. Um. You know, everybody talks about my family,

which a huge influence on me. Um. My dad was a public figure. So people talk about your dad was United States Center and our congressman, and what did you learn from him? But you know, I always say the person I learned the most from is my mom. And I think my brothers would all say the same. She uh, Roger needed a beat. I didn't intend to do it, but I made the commissioner of the NFL cry. My mom was a real fighter and a competitive person, someone who expected people to to to not let others down.

She never did, and she would always, um make everyone better about her. And so probably a lot of things you've talked about before. That's where I got it. You know. She she had that strength, UM, and that courage and nothing scared of her. She actually talked about running for Congress UM at one point in her herself, which was unheard of at that time. UM. And unfortunately she got sick and that never came to fruition. But she could have been a great congress person. UM. But she taught

us so much about life and and frankly sports. She was always there, and so is my dad. By the way, my dad was similar in yours wherever he was, and he lived in Washington a large part of his career and we were in New York. He never missed a game and I'll never forget it. And I always think we have to be there. Jane and I talked about be there for our kids at the time that are important, and they know we're there when it's important UM. And they were always supported and I had that from my family,

but my mom in particular. If you ever want to go out in the backyard and throw a football, she was the first one to sign up. And by the way, she was the hardest coach I've ever had because she I could hear her voice when I was playing sports. I could hear a voice on the football field from fifty yards away. And by the way, she wasn't necessarily in a possitive way. She would get after me, and you know, she would always go to the coaches afterwards

and say, what's he not doing right? What you know, get after him, make sure he's doing it. And so we got we got a lot from my mother's relationship. You played three positions on the football field, right quarterback, tight end, at defensive back, defensive back. Um, I probably played anything they told me to. I mean, I was a running back going into my senior year and they told me I had to switch the tight end because we had a great running back who switched over from

another school and he was better running back. And I said, that's where I should go. A great story about your mom from someone who watched you play high school football that I met, was saying that your older brother, Timmy played o line and your mom would be in the stands watching and people would go up to her after and say, hey, Jeanie, you know Tim had a great game, and she'd say, what do you mean he missed five blocks?

And that would be her response to them, right, And but I you know, I think that's so reflective somewhat of your leadership here where it's certainly not that you focus on the negative, but it's your expectation of us and what you expect from your folks is as close to amazing as we can get right, and you feel that all over three four or five part Well, I like to say, if you've heard me say, I believe in better and you know the NFL can always get better.

And I think that's what my mom was saying, is that, yeah, maybe he played well, maybe he did a lot of great things in the field, but he missed five blocks. It's what I say. You have to be your own harshest critic, and the people around you have to be there. That's not that's not being devan my view. That's trying to be constructive and trying to be helpful of saying you have more potential to reach. And that's what I think my mom wanted for us, is to reach your potential.

She didn't think I had a lot of potential, by the way, for a long time, but hopefully I surprised you a little bit. The Commissioner and I both knew at a very young age we wanted to work in football. My mom recently found something I wrote in ninth grade. The assignment was to write about my passion. I wrote quote, if I'm not praying for my favorite team to crush their biggest rivals, then I'm dreaming of playing football, making the winning catch, running thirty yards with the ball in

my arms, and winning the game. So, Sam, you have this incredible passion for the game, your parents are supportive, and you're going in your early twenties to apply for an NFL internship. So listen up, kids, if you're applying for a job, this is a good tip on how to get a job. Tell me what your application was like. So I was a young woman in Canada, no connections to the NFL whatsoever. Just knew that I would I would still be trying to the state of it into

this building. So I decided that I had to do something gimmicky to stand out, something that would, you know, separate me from the thousands of resumes that apply for that. So I sent a picture of myself in my tackle football gear with my resume, and with that I sent a football, And on the football, I wrote, in a sharpie what other quarterback could accurately deliver a ball three and eighty six miles, which was the distance between my

college in Montreal and New York City. And you know, I sent it and I was like, you know, you know, I don't give this a high chance of working, but you know it worked. It made me stand out, and I started my first NFL internship in two thousand and three. And Roger, that's when you met Sam. Yeah, but I'm relating to her story because I'm also an intern and to your point, you know, you have to find ways to stand out. But Roger didn't mail a football to

get his first job. He mailed letters, a lot of letters. Yeah, I wrote over fifty I think he's fifty three. Have'm actually over in that desk over there. And I got rejected by every single one of them. And some of them are my bosses today, by the way, and I've showed that letter to many of them. Your boss is

being the owners owners executives. Um. You know. I was turned down to the Commissioner's office many times, but eventually someone made a mistake of returning a phone call to me and said, yeah, sure, you know, if you're ever in New York, let me know, And I said, I'm in New York. He said, okay, well can you come

buy at eight? And I said sure. The problem I was in Pittsburgh and it was about six o'clock at night, so I had to drive all night to get there and showed up at the door, and I think he was a little surprised, and UM, I just kept after him and I said, there's always a fine line between being persistent and being a pain in the ass, and I'm sure I was both, but I think you have to demonstrate that when you want something so badly, when

you're passionate about something, and Sam, you are like passion I put number one, two, and three on your list. When you're passionate about something, you make it happen. And that's that, to me, is a difference between winners and losers. Sam. So fast forward after you do your internship, several years later, you're working for in youth football for USA Football. UM, I'm not sure we were trying to remember. I don't think you and I had ever met, but we belong

Roger and I belong to a church. And there was this really nice youth minister who came in, nice young guy who said, I, Hi, I'm brand new and I'm trying to get middle school kids to come to church, but they all want to play sports. So if anybody here has an idea about how to get kids to come to church, please let me know. And so I felt for him, and so I walked off to him afterwards and said, hi, um, my husband works in football, and maybe you could do a flag football tournament and

maybe he could come. And he said great, what does he do? And I said, well, he's the commissioner of the NFL and he said, oh, okay, I'm a soccer guy, but that sounds fun. And so I went home and I said, um, hey, Roger, I think I volunteered you to run a flag football clinic because the youth minister isn't really a football guy, So could you do that for the church and it might be nice? And he said, okay, sure. Two things. One, I have no idea how to run

a flag football tournament. And to I'll only do it if girls can come to Our daughters will be there, their middle schoolers, so I want to make sure it's for boys and girls. So he's a few weeks later said um, okay, yes, we've got some flags, we've got some jerseys. How many kids are coming. I said, I think about forty five. And he said, okay, I'm bringing in a ringer because I don't know how to run this. I'm bringing in Sam, who is a former quarterback who

can do it. And I said, great, Sam, Sam will be there to do it. I don't have to worry about anything but bringing snacks and making sure the flags work right, the velcro is good. And so we get down to the field and Roger goes like tearing across his high school football field, which I say, is like where all the greatness happened. That's what he tells me. We're down there on this field. He goes tearing across a football field to embrace this person, say am, and

I said, my mind has been blown. Sam is a girl with a long blonde ponytail, and my daughter's eyes were as big as saucers. By the way out of the forty five, I think we had like thirty nine boys and six girls, and you came over. You took then they split them up into giants and Jets with the little flag jerseys. You took Jets. He took giants. He was quarterbacking the other team, and Roger, you can find then is this accurate or not. She kicked your ass all over that. No, now you're off the base.

But no, but that we were competing, we were permanent quarterbacks. Right. Sam is an incredible athlete. We can't agree on that. Sam can really playing it. Let's just put it that way. So I like to teaser. Then I'm better, but I know I'm not. But it's okay. I would just like

the teaser. You could imagine though, those six girls to your point not to start twin girls, when they saw Sam running this event and throwing the football like at talk about opening your eyes to the world, and I want to say the boys eyes were his big saucers too, Like it's just as important of the messages I think for young men to see as well. Right, I was going to go to that point. You're ahead of me, but I agree with that because I do think they

saw something saying, wow, she can throw a football like that. Um, I do agree it opened her eyes. I heard one of them say she's kicking that old man's ass. I'm kidding. It's our biggest dedate nineteen years and running who on the flag football game. I'm a journalist, I know the facts, recollections in any case, the reason I'm telling this story is because as the game ended and Sam's team one, I walked up to her and said, I think we should be friends. That was amazing. And Roger came up

and said, Sam, what's going on, how's youth football? How's your job? We miss you at the league. What are you thinking? And Sam rapp a part said, was brave enough to say to the commissioner, Well, you know what, I'm glad you asked. I have a dream. I have a dream because I know all these smart, talented women who have great football minds, and there is no way for them to get into the National Football League. There's no entrance. I would love to build a pipeline. Is

that accurate? It's accurate? And I told him I'd call him on Monday and the rest is history. But yeah, you know, shot my shot and went up to Commissioner Adell at the time and said, you know, I see, I see a way that we can be better, and you always challenge us to be better, so let me present this idea to you. And what he doesn't know is it was already fully baked. I had the entire strategic plan ready to go because I know this guy, right,

I'm not. He doesn't want to hear. I have this crazy idea, and I really had a full strategic plan bake because I saw something that I felt could make us better, and that was the gates needed to be open for these thousands of women that are either playing football or enjoying football in this country to get in the game because previously they were disenfranchised. Not anyone's fault, they weren't applying. No one was thinking that women belong

in these positions. But everything changed when we were able to open the gates and create a pipeline for women to be involved in the sport that they love just as much as guys do. So I've said it out loud, this seemingly crazy but not so crazy idea of hiring women as coaches and scouts and other football positions in the NFL, the most male sport on the planet. I'm not afraid of challenges, and we're not going to shy

away from talking about them. Here We're onto the divisional round of the NFL playoffs with Draft Kings sports Book, an official sports betting partner of the NFL. Counting down to Super Bowl fifty six, New customers can get fifty six to one odds on any team that just five dollars and get two and eighty in free bets if

your team wins. Download the Draft King sports Book app now use promo code d K one and get fifty six to one odds on any NFL team that's just five bucks and when two hundred and eighty in free bets if your team wins. That's promo code d K one for fifty six to one odds at Draft Kings sports Book, an official sports betting partner of the NFL. Twenty one plus SMINA mage and location requirements very by jurisdiction. See DraftKings dot com slash sports Book for the full

list of requirements and state specific responsible gaming resources. Boyd were prohibited. Gambling problem Call one hundred Gambler In Tennessee call or text the t N Redline eight eight nine nine seven eight nine. In Connecticut call eight eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit CCPG dot org slash Chat. In New York call eight seven seven eight Hope and Why, or text Hope and Why

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the heart of progress. It's never been easy to land a job as a coach in the NFL. But if a young man wanted to coach and he had the talent to do so, he had a path. Many of them played in college and moved on to work with their friends. Whenever an opening came up, someone would say, I know a guy, let's interview him. If a young woman wanted to coach in the NFL, it was much

more difficult, nearly impossible. She might have played women's tackle football after work and coached high school kids to keep her passion alive, but she didn't have the same contacts and didn't have anything close to a direct path. So we created a pipeline to get her in front of the right people. So Roger says, call me Monday. You say, I'm calling you Monday. My first question was going to be did you have a plan of where you were like, Holy cow, this my my dream actually might happen for

some people, it's an overnight thing. You auditioned for a Broadway musical and suddenly you're a big star. This process, obviously was not going to be an overnight success, and it was gonna take time and a lot of thinking and they're gonna be a lot of challenges. When you guys first met on it, how did it go? And Roger, that's a big leap for you, right to make a

significant change to the game. Well, it really wasn't that big leap, because, um, I believe that in Sam's passion and her courage and and her plan, frankly, and that there were was a lot of talent out there that had the same passion for the game that we had just frankly overlooked. I don't think people saw women in that position, and we had to change that perception. I always talk about it when people come into the NFL,

how do you create value? And there's a lot of values that people of different genders, different colors, different you know, diversity is what makes us stronger, and that's really a core belief of the NFL and mind personally, and I think we were just on tapping talent that was going to make the NFL better. It's analogous to why coaches like to go to internationally defined players, right. It's like all the best football talent is not in the United States, right,

it's everywhere. And if you consider everywhere, you're going to have the best players. Coaches like Ron Rivera, Sean McDermott, Bruce Arians, they look at this and they say, we have not considered half the population when we're hiring talent, and if we consider everyone, that the criminal rise to the top. It's about winning, it's about getting the best people in the job. And if you're forgetting half of the population, any half of any population, there's no question

that you're not getting the best talent. I think we're the NFL hadn't is really looked at the fact that there are people that we just overlooked that they weren't part of the game. They weren't either playing it or people looked at as a male dominant sport. And when people really said listen, there's really passionate, talented people that can make our game better and help us win. All we had to do is given them a chance to actually go through the meritocracy and earn it. And I

think that's what Sam's created. If we build it, they will come. We created what we call the Women's Forum. Each year, my colleague Vanessa Hutchinson and I invite forty women with college football experience to spend time listening to and talking to NFL head coaches, general managers and owners. So, Sam, how do you get buy in? Was there a moment where a head coach raised his hand and said I'll

show up. So the first year we got Kim Pagoula owner of the Buffalo Bills, and Ron rivera head coach of the Carolina Panthers at the time now the Washington football team, and both of them took a shot on this, and I give them a lot of credit for that because they didn't know who I was. I cold emailed them and asked them if they would participate, and they both said yes. They both flew down to Florida we hosted at Pro Bowl at the time, and they said,

I want to be a part of this. And they really helped lend credibility to this effort because since then both of them have said we're involved every year for this count on us every year and like Roger said, these are two incredibly busy people who are very busy at that time of year too, but say we will always lend you know, our time to this effort. And they've been involved in the program for five years. Vanessa, who's a senior manager in the football operations department, has

been my secret weapon. You had said at one point, I believe had a phone call when we were going back and forth planning, like wouldn't it be great if we could get you know, Bill Belichick to be in a breakout session, and I said, I think we can maybe do it. And we were very strategic about it though. The way we went about it. We got to Vrabel on board. First, we had emailed coach of Rabel and of course, like five minutes later he responds and says,

I'm totally in. We said, what we want to do is pitch to Coach Belichick, Uh, you and him doing a breakout session with no more than you know, seven women, you know, no media, super intimate, just talking ball, and he said, I'm in. Keep me posted on what Coach Belichick says. And so we draft. This email to Bears explained to him the importance of this program, the history of it, and ultimately, here's what we want from Coach Belichick. Is he willing to do it? And not even twenty

minutes later he said, coaches all in. So that was really you know how it happened. And I called you and you know there are there's a lot of screaming and all that, but you know, I think one having him there, just watching him in a breakout session, super relaxed, super laid back, literally just doing what he loves, which is talking ball and developing coaches. Uh, that was tremendous

to see. And then the other thing to point out is coach Belichick comes from an era of the old Boys Club, not saying he is in that club, and he's shown and us hiring that he's not. But to have a coach like that that comes from that kind of generation, um, you know, to kind of show other head coaches and other people that come from that generation as well that he's embracing a program like this, I think was tremendously important. And anyone who was, you know,

maybe teetering on embracing diversity, equity, inclusion. He's an example for that to them as well. And I think that's why it means so much to have him be a part of him, to have him, you know, say you know that it's important to him in his organization. And he didn't blink an eye when he was in that zoom, right, I mean, we didn't let anyone in that zoom. So I'm gonna give a little peek behind the curtain of what it was like. He was like, all right, let's go.

Who wants to learn football? Right? There was no mention of oh, your female coaches, kind of like what you were saying. There's no mention about you know, your gender. It was like, who wants to talk ball? And I remember alex Hannah raised her hand, She's like, I want to talk ball, and she pulled up a power point and broke down a cover three defense for him and asked him specific questions about what the cornerback should do

in a certain situation. And then they just started talking ball for an hour, right, And then other people started asking him strategic questions and just the opportunity to speak to a genius in the game like that, you know, and then him giving out his email address them after it was just the icing on the cake. But it really struck me how he didn't care who was in the room. He wanted to develop young coaches and that's

why he got involved, right. I mean, I remember just being amazed he was referring to everyone who was calling them coach coach to the women in the room, you know, whether they were at the high school level, where there at the college level, he was addressing them in that sense. And like you said, we had participant sharing screens and asking questions to him, and you know, he lit up when Alex uploaded her screen on zoom to show in

the play and he was like, this is great. And then him and Coach Rabel just took it from there. And you know, they had their prior relationships, but they were working off of each other and it created just such a great environment in that breakout session for them all to be a part of. As I mentioned at the top of the pod, almost two hundred opportunities for women have come out of this forum in just five years. Several women were so impressive that they got their jobs

on the spot. One question that I get asked all the time as I'm working on you know, some of this content podcast and and TV series is people are so curious about, well, what's the reaction from an NFL player and he's told that a woman is going to be coaching him. I can imagine people assume they might not like that. But what have you found when these women get into those positions and what have you heard? You guys are on the front lines of this from

the coaches themselves, from the players themselves. My response to that typically is ask any player and they will tell you that they want their coaching staff to reflect their family, the fans, their normal life outside of football. Right. And as Roger said, and coach Arian's has said this many times, a coach is a teacher and if you can teach, you can teach. And there's no gender to teaching, right. So if you talk to the guys, they love it. Right.

A lot of them have daughters. It's inspirational for their daughters. A lot of them have sons. It's inspirational for their sons to see women in these positions teaching men football. And it's remarkable to see. I've never heard of players say anything other than we need more female coaches. One of the other big questions is you put these women the majority of them are young. We have a couple examples, like Low Locusts, who was on the Super Bowl winning Buccaneers.

In you put them in these positions as trailblazers and being first, that is a heck of a lot of pressure. How do you prepare them for that and how do you help them through that process as the season goes on. So there's no perfect blueprint, you know, and there's mistakes along the way. But I think what I'm so appreciative of is how honest they are, whether it's you know us always, you know, people like Low Jennifer King, Sally

with all all of them. If we have someone we want to connect them with who's on that pathway to wanting to be like them, they'll take that phone call and they will be completely transparent with them, and they'll be completely honest with them about what this road is, what it entails, what's been tough um and that I think just their transparent transparency in itself and willingness to share that actual experience and not be afraid to make mistakes but try and just you know, be leaders in

that for the other woman around. That's what I appreciate the most for them. And Vanessa. I know. It seems to me my conversations were these coaches none of them want to be first. That's not why they're doing it. They're doing it because they love the game. They think they can make the game better, they think they can help teams win, and it's become their passion. It's like, Sam, so, how do you distinguish that? And and the good news is there not first anymore, and the doors open and

the opportunities there. So how do you get to finding their true motivation of how they're going to succeed in the most competitive sport in the world, one of the most successful businesses and leagues in the world. They're going to have to compete against the best. And when they walk in that room, they don't care whether they're a woman or a man, or as I always say, players can smell a coach he doesn't know what he's talking about. In about five minutes. It takes that long and they'll know.

And that's what they respect. And ultimately it's about the respect that you know how to coach and make them better. One of the things we ask when we're talking to these women, who are you know, in preparation for the forum is you know what your why? Why do you wake up and want to work these endless hours in this industry and sacrifice so many for things to be in it? And you know a lot of those answers are a lot of reason why some of the women

are in the forum itself. Um, you know, we stray away from the answers that say I want to be the first, this, that, or the next. We really embrace the answers that say, I just want to help a team be better and wherever I'm needed for that, that's what I want to do. Here's where I think I have my strengths, Here's what I think I have my weaknesses. But what I really want to do is be a part of a team and be a part of helping

them have success. And so I think that's in a way that that shows you know, ultimately what leadership means to them, and it gives us a really good look at the type of candidates we're looking for and how they'll fit within the league. How do you advise them on what to do with pushback that would come from outside a team organization, from social media, from fans um.

Talking to the women coaches who are currently working in the league, they all will tell you, oh, yeah, it's brutal if you go on social media, or sometimes things fans will say to you it is nasty or even than your wildest imagination. And they all have strategies kind of for where they put it. So when you're looking at young women coming in, how how do you advise them on what to do with what with what can

become really bad noise. My biggest piece of advice is always to keep your head down in grind mentality, whether and you have to figure out what that means for you, whether that means you're not on social media or you're not paying attention to that. You know, that's one way to do it. But obviously you can't ignore all the noise.

But one thing I've always been taught and I've always tried to use in my career in itself, is that you need to worry about the people who matter, the person that hired you, the person you're reporting to, the people who rely on you, and as long as they think you're doing a great job and you're doing well, that's what matters. And the person on Twitter who is, you know, ranting does not. And so it really has

to be a deep, you know, belief in yourself. And as cliche as that may sound, that's what keeps a lot of people's heads above ground in this industry is just knowing who you are and knowing what you're good at and letting that pave your way for you. And we talk about Roger sometimes like that, we're like, do you think Rogers on Twitter saying like, I you two right, Like, if you're in ring, you have to take the blows right, and we all know that there are responsibilities that you

have in being the first. So what we tell them is, imagine you're Roger, right, and you're sitting there and these people are criticizing him. He is not sitting there on social media telling these people like will you suck or you whatever? Right, He's doing his job. And that's really what we tell the women is don't worry about people who are not in the ring with you, and don't take criticism from someone who you wouldn't go to for advice and so blinded out, have your blinders on social

media because we're going to hear that. No matter how long we continue to do this, which hopefully is forever, people will criticize because they have bad things to say. But if they're not in the ring with you, it doesn't matter. You know. My trick always with that is one is I don't pay much attention to it. But second, and probably more important, I use his motivation. You know, I just want to prove those people wrong. And what I see from most of our great coaches, everyone's doubted,

everyone's challenged everyone. You know, they make the wrong call in the game, and everyone says you're a loser. You have to use that as your motivation to get better and to prove people wrong. And to me, those are the people who have real grit ultimately, or the competitive ones that are going to be able to go through those difficult times, which every coach does, every commissioner does, every person in public life and in personal life. You're

going to have those moments of adversity and challenge. You have to be able to compete and grind through it. To use the term you use, that's grit. In my view, that's the people I want to around me. It's not a business for a thin skin, absolutely not. I think you know that too. This season unearned it. I said to Darcy and said, look, I like to hire two coaches who happen to be female. She said, heck yeah,

go for it. And you gotta be kidding me. I mean, I like sports my whole life from five and because I'm a girl, I can't white. It's not like I'm doing this to bust up the good old Voice book. Just listen to your story, I mean quarterback and your thoughts and your wants and your goals. I'm like, oh wow, this is a live one. You Sam's a live one. When you're looking to hire the best people. Maybe if you're opening up the pool to everybody, you're getting even

more exceptional people. Be sure to watch for Earning Itt, the five part TV series from NBC and NFL Films coming to NBC and Peacock in January. Brought to you by up work, where you can build a team that will build your business. Learn more at upwork dot com. You want the confidence of knowing that the people, places,

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