So now nine o two to play in the overtime. London off the field. Here's Mooney in motion with Cousins, and I gotta gun it. And it's called Caderyl Hodge. Thirty five five pive home safely.
Oh my gunness, sucko to the gate, caderrel, Was you serious?
A walk off for Carderyl Hodge and the Falcons.
Welcome to NFL Daily. Yes, uh, we are serious. Kirk Cousins just did that thirty six to thirty. The Falcons get it done in overtime. That was West Durham on w z g C. I am here tonight in Dave Archer two, by the way, joined by a legend of the game, one of the best players in Bucks history.
He's shaking his head right now.
Gerald.
I wanted to deliver a better ending for your Buccaneers here, but that was one hell of a football game they lost tonight.
Sorry about that, man.
We as Buccaneers just don't have great fortune on Thursday night versus the Falcons.
Man.
I said it before the game. I had us picked, but for some reason on Thursday night versus these freaking Falcons, man, there's something about this. Kirk Cousins Falcons team in overtime. But it's every Kirk Cousins team.
It was back when he was with Washington, it's back obviously with Minnesota. It's these crazy primetime games he played. The difference is lately he's been winning them. What a wild ending to this game.
Yeah, you hate to see it as a buccaneer, buccaneer fan, player, coach, whatever, you hate to see the way it ended. But as a fan of football, freaking incredible game.
What a way to end it. Man, Atlanta fought for that one. I give him that. You lose those type, you just gotta let them have it.
Man.
They earned that one.
Yeah, this is seriously testing your professionalism having to come on right after.
Yeah, for sure. But I'm a professional, Joe. I gotta do what I gotta do.
Yeah.
Of course.
Gerald McCoy on Game Day Morning on NFL Network, the great podcast that he has with Kyle Van Noy, He's popping out on Gil's arena over an underdog. So he is doing it all and yet we're gonna break down this game bit by bit, but we got to start at the end. And I think the end of regulation is what strikes me for a second, Falcons fans think Jesse Bates did it once again.
He saved our team.
This guy, who's one of the best defensive players at safety i've ever seen, forces a fumble with the peanut punch while the Buccaneers are driving up three with under three minutes to go or so and gives the Falcons another chance. And you think, oh, that's gonna be the key play. But what do the Falcons do. We don't go three and out, they go four and out, they go backwards, They go for it on fourth and fifteen, and your former teammate, the ageless Levante David picks off
a pass. At that point, what are you thinking as a as a as a Bucks fan, not a fan as this a Buck?
Oh well, one, Lavonte is freaking incredible, you know, that's what he does, very timely plays. And he was due for one. Tay was due for a pick. But you know, in that instance, you're like, well, all right, we're good to go. Here we go to LaMonte. Yeah he did it, and.
Then that yes, then that has you got your cousins on the screen behind you. Let's actually listen to our friend Jeene Decker house call of that Levante David interception, which I thought was going to be the call.
We went into this highlight with well the.
Falcon fig fourth down for the third time tonight. They need to reach the thirty five yard line. Buck's guilty of a pass with the Ferris. The last sleeve was four for low dropping back to those Kirk cousins. Kirk Cousins, Hashton throws of.
All up man.
It's an aceping picked off by Fonte David.
Now the Buccaneers have the football.
First takeaway by the Buccaneers tonight. Ponte David answers the bell again.
Yeah, that's w f US and that helps remind me there's under a minute and fifty seconds left at that point. I thought it was the smart decision by Raheem Morris to go for his fourth down decisions in the in this game, I think we're good overall and mostly helped him. He went for a fourth and three that led to a field goal around midfield. In the second half, he knew it was an offensive game. He went for another
fourth down in the red zone. I think that led directly to a touchdown when when most people probably would have taken the points in a situation where they could have tied it up, and then there he goes for I think that makes sense because it gives you two chances to win the game. And I go back to this point because you just can't go backwards at that point.
And to me, of all the mistakes you could point out, because this was a great offensive game for the most part, from both these teams, both these quarterbacks, they don't go anywhere. They throw a pass that goes a little backwards and then they have a holding call which actually knocks them
out of field goal range. It was tough to see, Gerald, because your offense is looking awesome, Baker Mayfield is playing great, and Liam Cohen, your offensive coordinator, has been on when the last couple of weeks.
I spoke about before the game, I did a couple of interviews before the game, and I said that the good teams find a way to win, and the Buccaneers have been on the wrong end of these too many times. And what happens is is at the end of the games, technique time is where you do your job and you can't have untimely penalties and everybody has to do their job and the technique has to be has to be right. Man, It's just untimely things can cause you to lose games.
And that's why they say the NFL is a game of inches, because one wrong decision, one wrong step to the right, one interception, one holding, and the game changes.
And that's what happened.
Yeah, it's really crazy because you train all offseason, you have all these injuries in this game. You train all week and then yeah, it just comes down to a couple little things that drive I was talking about. Rashid White loses three yards, had a big run in this game, but they the running game was a little up and down. Bucky Irving had that fumble. He then picks up seven yards.
But you have a penalty on your first round pick, Graham Barton, and then they throw another pass the Rashid right that loses yardage and they kick it off at that point, I mean they punt it away. At that point, the Falcons have the ball at the twenty with no timeouts, eating three to tie Kirk Cousins, who, by the way, set an all time record for Falcons passing yards with five hundred and nine yards.
Yes, like we wouldn't make the proper adjustments. I don't know what the heck we was doing. He was finding those holes in our own all night, all night, and we watched what he just did a couple of weeks ago to Philly, and same thing is.
This one was a little different though, because man, he he looked like he looked like a different Kirk, because again it's it's all out of the pistol, it's all in shotgun and it's not what you used to him with play action and under center. But he was thrown it into some tight windows a lot of times. I was like, that's good coverage and those are just good
throws that he had some great anticipation. Darnell Mooney dropped a huge one in the fourth corner that looked like a big play, but a lot of great throws into tight windows. Drake London had a monster game. My guy from two lane. Darnell Mooney goes nine for one oh five and two touchdowns. I think gets one fifty four. But there's Kirk Cousins with the ball at the twenty when he has it there in about a minute twenty left, no timeouts.
What are you thinking?
Are you confident your bucks defense is going to stop him?
If I'm being honest, No, I mean freaky ain't stop them all game. So you know, at that point, you just you want to you know, sacks their drive killers.
You know, and.
I said before the game in the interview that Kirk is one of those people who are flammable and that place is extremely electric. So if you let a guy like Kirk Cousins gets comfortable and he gets relaxed in what he's doing, he'll kill you. Five hundred and nine yards ago, we see, is you gotta what I said should happen. They got to get Kirk Cousins uncomfortable early, get him, get them out of his rhythm. Okay, get him uncomfortable, get them moving. That's when Kurt starts to
make bad decisions. That's when Kurt starts to get flushed and be all over the plays. He never got uncomfortable tonight, so you go into a final drive where he needs to get a field goal. I'm not overly confident that we're gonna get this stop now. I'm wishing and hoping, but overly confident.
No.
I was now and they had just lost Yayad Diabbi.
It's worth pointing out, Jordan Whitehead, their safety got hurt in this game. They came into it already shorthanded, missing a handful of players. Elijah Cansey, Antoine Winfield, we're talking about the best Bucks player. So I think if you're a Bucks backer, there's someb positives here that you're gonna get healthier on defense and your offense is looking great.
But you're feeling even better if you're a Falcons fan, because you've managed the beginning part of this season, which was very challenging well, especially with these late comebacks in primetime, I would say, okay. So in that drive, Cousins eventually he has a couple of short passes, one to Mooney, one to Pitts, one to McLeod Then he gets the ball around midfield, third and one twenty one seconds left. He throws it in completion where Zion McCollum, who's been
great all season, bats the ball down. I'm thinking there's only twelve seconds left. They are in deep trouble. Let's listen to the play call there because most of us watching are thinking they have to go to the sideline here. Instead, they go over the middle.
Snap to Cousins, He's looking to cut it loose quick does in the middle of the field. That's London eight second seven six, Atlanta runs to the line. Nowmosle up over the football free.
To spike it.
They did it with.
One to go.
Wow, that to me was the play right there. I was expecting the defensive players just kind of get in the way. I know they didn't want to get a penalty or anything, but that thing happened fast.
Gerald, I get that, but you gotta do something like will you tackle him? Just hold him for a second, because you know you only got a few seconds. They have no timeouts.
Just hold him for just to sake, just lay on him.
On a regular play, if you lay on a guy for too long, nobody pays any attention.
So do the same.
Is like, he still has to get his he still has to get his leg free, and then boom we got it.
But again, Atlanta earned this one.
They earned us when we didn't do what was necessary to win the game. And that was another example of you know, one second that it was absolutely crazy. We've got a comment. If you are watching live on YouTube, yes, send us some comments. Andre Kuna says, Dude, this is amazing having a former player live react to the game.
So proud of you, Greg, I mean, I'm proud to have on Gerald too that you know a great buck.
Did they put you in the Ring of Honnor yet they got to get on that? I don't even know.
I would I would love if they did. Three time All Pro. You know, one of the best defensive tackles of the last two decades, Gerald McCoy and someone I really enjoyed watching. But I gotta in mit, Jerald. The initial kernel of this idea to have you on actually came on a morning I was on the couch with my son and I'm thinking, I got to get someone for that Falcons Bucks game. I was nine years old and my boy Walker, he goes, you gotta get Gerald. I was like Jerald. I was like, oh, yeah, that
would be great. And I'm like, you're on a first name basis with him.
I didn't know that.
He's like, oh, I love Gerald, He's my favorite. On game day morning, I'm at work at that point, I love it a Walker, that's my guy. Yeah, and we're actually we might hear from Walker a little later. So young way Coup at that point, I'm circling back to the end of regulation nails a deep kick. It was an up and down night for Coup. He missed a short one early and then he hits the long one
to send it to overtime. He also had a field goal blocked in a situation where I thought maybe Raheem Morris would go for it on fourth and sixth in the second half. I mean, there were so many ups and downs in this game when when you're a player like in the game, and there's so many swings of who's in control, and the Bucks were mostly in control of this game, but it was going back and forth in that fourth quarter. Are you guys like riding that
roller coaster or how does that feel? Because there are so many different moments in this game where I was like, oh, Falcons are going to lose, Oh Falcons are going to win.
No, you can't, man, you you have to.
Stay even kell because this game of momentum shifts, you know, and if you ride the wave then mentally one it'll drain you for sure. So by the time the game is, when it's crunch time you need to be at your best, you'd be so mentally drained because you're riding a wave of emotions. You can't do it. You gotta stay even
kill regardless of what happens. Is next play, next play interception, next play sac next play incomplete, next play, first down, next play, So the next play mentality, you have a next man up mentality, So if somebody goes down, next man up, that's how you got to play the game or two is over. So the fans they can ride the way with emotions. We're we as players, we're allowed, but we shouldn't. Yeah, so technically we're not allowed to.
Right, And they like there were just so many ups and downs. You go back to the first half, and to me, the story of the game at the time was like neither team could get any pressure. The Falcons are just sending tons of blitzes and they're not getting near Baker Mayfield at all. And that's why it felt like it might have come down to who won that coin toss. I know they put the rule in that you got to score a touchdown, but I was like, man, I kind of like either of these teams to go
score a touchdown right now. Falcons get the coin toss, they go to overtime, and then yeah, Kirk Kirk Cousins gets it done again. It was he ends up forty two fifty eight for five hundred and nine yards four touchdowns in that interception to David. The crazy thing Gerald is, I have some next gen stats here. He only threw four play action passes. He only threw one pass outside the pocket, so that's fifty seven passes. This guy is not moving, He's just sitting back there. That is surprising
to me. I thought that was going to be a problem for this team, but he showed I guess you can you can make it work. Can can you make it work with a quarterback that a mobile You shouldn't.
You shouldn't be able to.
And it goes to this testament to what I said this past week on game day morning. The Bucks struggle to rush with four, you know, and if when you blitz, you take people out of coverage, and if you do that against the wrong person, this can happen. So when you take people out of coverage and you try and rush with four, but you're not playing great zone in the back end or great in the back end, you'll
get picked apart. Shouldn't be able to throw that many times from the pocket it and be able to pick somebody apart. Sometimes you have to get out of the pocket. But they wasn't making Kurt move enough, and we just got to get more coordinated up front. Now, we did get to the quarterback more this week than we have in past weeks, well not last week, but weeks prior to, but just sitting.
In the pocket like that.
We got to get him off his spot, man, And that's why I said we had to get Kurt uncomfortable, and he wasn't uncomfortable back there.
That's why he was just sitting back, just picking us apart.
Yeah, he ends up you know, finding Cadero Hodge on that play there was a huge third down to Drake London. Drake London is an absolute boss. I think he's kind of having his moment. Tell me what you think about Drake London.
He's really good man. You got some guys who just need the right person throwing them the ball. But somebody that's just truly skilled at what he does. Great hands, really good route runner. You know, he's just a baller and he's consistent. That's what you want. And when you want to looking for a guy, you need somebody who's consistent regardless of who's throwing them the ball.
And that's what Drake London has been.
That's why getting a Kirk Cousins drafting to Michael Pennock so early because you know you got pieces. You just got to get the right person to give them the ball. Great thing is Kirk Cousins has been playing very well, so you don't have to rush Michael Pennix into the lineup. He can sit back and he can learn. But as he's learning and getting better, you got Drake London who's improving and getting better. So when Michael Pennis do come into the lineup, now you got a dynamic duo that's
going to be extremely scary. Add Bjon Robinson to it. And I hate that Atlanta figured out that throwing Michael Pitt's the ball actually works. I hate they figured it out tonight. I wish they had figured it out next week, not tonight.
Geez man.
That's the thing.
Like Kirk has been getting a little better mostly each and every week, but this was different. Yeah, you mentioned Kyle Pitts gets a thirty two yard nice pass up to see it. I mean a lot of it was just nice throws.
Kirk.
He's always thrown a pretty football. Yeah, Taylor's en watching on YouTube, says kirktober is here. He has been an October monster. He gets Hodge involved Ray Ray McLeod, who's been in the league a minute, goes six for sixty six. I mean, my guy, I've always thought Darnel Mooney is a fantastic player. He knows how to get open. He just he's kind of like a very very very poor man's Antonio Brown in that, like the quarterback doesn't always
know exactly where he's gonna be. He's just going to be open somewhere, and so that's been a problem for him. But he was great tonight. Other than that drop. We should give the Bucks some love though. So I was mentioned in the first half of that game when the Falcons are sending a ton of pressure, a ton of blitz is not getting any pressure on Baker, and Baker's back there cooking. I mean, Baker only wound up with twenty four passes in this game, but very efficient, one
hundred and eighty yards, three touchdowns. They're moving the ball down the field. Your old teammate Mike Evans, he just he's getting it done, very physical, a couple of touchdowns. Nice routes by Liam Cohen. Like this offense I think has a lot to feel good about. Bucky Irving goes nine for forty four for Sheid White. Rashad White goes ten for seventy two. Godwins looked better this year, Like, this is a better Bucks offense than I expected this season.
Yeah, And what it is is when everybody was saying Atlanta was the favorite to win this division, it was because of how it looked on paper. And I said, there's no substitution for chemistry. And that's what the Bucks have had with Baker Mayfield. See the time put in there was all the other rosters were new, you know, they were trying to develop timing and new guys in,
new coordinators. This is and it's the Bucks have the same people, you know, and Baker the chemistry he was able to bald with Mike Evanson, Chris Godwin last year with Sean White. I knew it was gonna carry over because Baker there's nobody more dangerous than a person who has the belief of his organization or the players around him, and they believe in Baker Mayfield, and that's what he
was looking for. He had a great season last year, almost one comeback Player of the Year, So I knew coming into this year the offense was gonna be even better. And you see in the chemistry has with Chris Godwin over the first five weeks.
You see, Mike is just Mike. Mike has been Mike since he got in the league.
But having a quarterback that you have chemistry with, that's why this offense is flowing away is flowing.
We just couldn't get it done tonight.
Yeah, it was fantastic in the first half. They did have a three and out to start the second half, and then that three and out at the end in the fumble. There just was no margin for Era. You can't fault in offense when they have six scoring drives out of nine. I mean that the offense played well, but there was just no margin for Era. Really reminded me of that line Seahawks game. Suddenly offense is back in the NFL. The difference this time is Gino kept
scoring and scoring and the Lions kept responding. There was a moment here where the Bucks offense stopped responding that the Falcons did a lot good they made They made the Falcons the Bucks defense struggle with tempo at time. That's something you can do with the veteran quarterback. But look, these two teams are three and two. Jared I believed in your bucks before the season. I picked them to win the division for many of the same reasons you said.
And I just think if you just look at their top ten players, it's like they actually are a very talented team. You know, they have a lot of high quality players. And then I thought the continuity with Todd Bowles on defense and for the offensive players, I wanted to see what Liam Cohen looked like. But I think that's worked out well. This is a fun division, the NFC South. We're they're both three and two. The Saints are pretty frisky. They're going to be in Kansas City
on Monday night. Like, Hey, I want to say a message to the schedule makers. I'm sure you agree with this best when you were a player. We don't need to just put the NFC South in primetime at the beginning of the season when we're opposite baseball. We should be putting NFC South in primetime all the time. It's a good time.
There's no division quite like the NFC South.
Yeah, And the crazy part is a lot of people thought the NFC South would be like one of the worst divisions going into the season. But Atlanta, they're fighters, New Orleans is better than we thought. Carolina is all over the place. But you know, you got the Buccaneers, who obviously have been playing great up to this point. Even tonight the game was not like neither team play bad. There was just no margin for air. Like you said and I said before the game, like we can't go
kickfield goals. We gotta go get points versus Atlanta, especially on Thursday night. Man, I don't know what it is. There's a couple of things Atlanta on Thursday night and our creamsickle freaking jerseys. It's like it's something about those cream fickle jerseys Land on Thursday night with the Buccaneers.
Man, it's just I don't know what it is.
Man, I don't believe in curses anything like that, but it ain't. It ain't been great for us over the last ten ten or so years.
Well, you get a chance to, yeah, maybe put the creamsicles on and beat Atlanta. Uh back in Tampa. I don't know later in the season that'll end up.
Okay, I'm not for him. We just we just we losing them, stop wearing them. And the funny thing is the Glazers are superstitious. So if we keep losing in the ease. Stop wearing them, please.
I love it all right.
So before before we let you go here, I do have a couple of little items. I did want to give some love again to your former teammate.
Who.
Man, he's building a Hall of Fame case like you did during your career.
Uh.
Let's listen to Mike Evans having a big time noteworthy touchdown earlier in this game.
The Bucks line up and a shotgun set with two receivers lying to the left, one to the way Baker Mayfield both high snap loops, slip slips, throws up on toward the end zone. He's got average, he's got a touch stuffs, have about habits, has two Welcome to Atlanta, number thirteen doing his thing.
That's a that's one hundred career touchdowns. Gerald one hundred man. That was a cold bloody route. And Mike, Mike is funny. Man, Mike do some stuff where you like Mike. That didn't mean nothing to you.
He was like, man, whatever, you know, I just you know, he just Mike always shrug everything off. But he really loves what he does. He puts the working time in. He learned from a great mentor and Vincent Jackson rest the piece of Vincent Jackson. He taught him how to be what we used to call the ultimate pro, which is what Vincent Jackson was. You know, when Mike first came into the league, he was a chubby kid from Texas. Now a big body could play the game. He's he's
a little chubby, fat face. Then he realized, Okay, let me get my body in shape. Let me take care of myself so I can play longer. I can I can sustain this level of play for a long period of time. And that's what Mike has done. He's a measure of consistency. If you need consistency, put Mike Evans bitcher right next to it. And he's just been incredible man. And he said that he wanted his hundredth catch the ball. He wanted his hundredth catch receiving touchdown. I mean that
was his hundred touchdown. He wants this hundred time receiving touchdown. That's the ball he's gonna keep because he just keep giving the ball away.
Okay, that's a that's a good point. There was I think a fumble recovery touchdown and here, Yeah, it's bad ass. It's one of the cool things about the Bucks that they has been there for a while.
Godwin. You were with Godwin for a couple of years too.
His rookie year. I was there. Yeah, m hm.
And he's consistent and it's really been cool, actually because I really loved him in his first few years in the league, just what he could do after the catch, and you could you could tell the injuries for a couple of years affected him. But he looks like he's all the way back. He's a contract, he's gonna get paid again.
Like that, They are a lot to deal with.
They were missing actually their number three and number four receivers tonight, and then another receiver went down. So, like I said, I think both of these teams get out of the first five games of the season feeling pretty good. I mentioned my buddy Walker speaking of Mike Evans. My son Walker is a fan of yours, and so it's his bedtime.
He's gone.
We're not letting him stay up to watch the end of the game or watch this show. But he did want to send a little message to you, So we're going to listen to that now.
Jerald.
Hi, mister McCourt, I like your show on Sunday mornings, and I have a question for you. Is Mike Evans going to be in the Hall of Fame? Prom Walker?
I love it, man, I love it. I'm a dad's dad, I'm a family man to my core. I got five kids, man, and I was just in a car and over earlier with my ten year old to my five year old. So h man, hearing that little voice, I'm so used to hearing it. It's incredible to hear from Walker and uh Walker to answer your question. Yes, I think we questioned whether Mike Evans should be in the Hall of Fame or not, and the question should be be a first ballot or not. But Mike Evans for sure like that.
Mike Evans for sure is a Hall of Famer. Walker, you are hall of Famer. From Gerald and his family to you, guys, we love you so much. Walker, and I definitely appreciate your question and all your love and your support.
Yeah, he's a big fan and he's going to have a smile ear to ear when I when we wake up tomorrow and I'll play him that. That is awesome. Tough night for your box. Appreciate the professionalism. The very last thing we're gonna do here Cherld. We actually are going to give a little bit of love to someone you went against.
It on the night where they they honored Matt Ryan.
We are just gonna listen to just one little clip from from a guy that you've faced off against.
To the Falcons fans, Atlanta has become my home.
You have become my extended family. I want you to know it was the thrill of a lifetime to be your quarterback. Every day I was trying to be the best I could for this organization and for you. I will never have another job that I loved as much as the one I had here.
So that's That's a guy, Matt Ryan, that you went against. It's making me feel old a little bit that Matt Ryan's going to the Ring of Honor and Roddy White's up there, And do you have any any Matt Ryan you know, facing off against Matt Ryan, what that was like?
Story?
Yeah, I love Mattie ice Man and calling him Matty Ice is like a cardinal seeing for a rival, you know, and for an opponent. But I love him to death. Matt Ryan is one of the best competitors I've ever faced. And Matt Ryan is actually where I learned the term flammable. I used to use He's flammable man, And he was one of those people when he gets started, if you don't if you don't stop him early, he's flammable, especially in that building. And that's why I knew that building
is so electric. Who's ever a quarterback? And I faced off against two guys that were there at the same time. I faced off against him and Roddy White, but also freaking Julio Jones. So I had to deal with all that over my time in Tampa.
Man.
But Matty Ice, everything he's getting he deserves. He for sure should put on that gold jacket with Mike Evans, along with Julio Jones and my buddy Lavonte David, And you know, it's just a It was a great run playing against Matty Ice.
Actually, when.
My last game as a Buccaneer was versus the Falcons, and I had a feeling, wasn't too sure if I was coming back and that, but I had like a little inkling. So I told Maddy Ice, I said, hey, listen, this may be my last time in the NFC South. Can I have your jersey? And he signed it for me. I got Matt Ryan's jersey man and a freaking incredible career as an Atlanta Falcon.
Love competing against Matty Ice.
Yeah, I mean, I just think of how he came into the league. I remember his very first game, him having this crazy drive at the end to get it done, and that was his career. Although I got to say
not to annoy both fan bases here. When the Bucks backed up out of field goal range in that spot, it reminded me so much of the Falcon Super Bowl after Julio made that catch that you go in history as one of the greatest catches of all time, and that one of the greatest throws of all time in the Super Bowl and they're in field goal range and they're probably gonna win it, and then they get a holding penalty to back them up and they give the
Patriots another chance, and that kind of happened to your Bucks tonight. They give the Falcons the other chance, and Hey, the new the new Mattie Ice, kirk o chains, he's swagsurfing out there, he's clutched, and it's gonna be a fun year in the NFC South.
We'll be watching you Gerald.
Listen to your podcast with with Kyle voyant van Ney at Yahoo. Check him out Game Day Morning.
Now, Who's Sports check us out every Tuesday, NFL Game Day Morning, every Sunday morning.
Best show on TV. I appreciate it. Yeah, thank you so much, no problem.
Walker's favorite Gerald McCoy. All right, I am flying after that, and yet this show's not even over. After the break, I want to throw to a conversation Jordan Rodriege and I had with Ron Rivera, who's yeah now working at NFL Network. We picked his brain about some of the most fascinating defenses of the season. Was a really fun conversation that'll be after the break back on NFL Daily and back in the Chris Westling podcast studio.
Here.
Really excited to be joined by my friend Jordan rod Rieg of the Athletic and my new friend. I don't know if I can call him a friend, but we've met a few times now. Ron Rivera maybe a friend of Jordan's here, former coach of the Washington Commanders and the Carolina Panthers, and he's just chilling here at NFL Media. Before we turned on the camera, he was so comfortable. He had his famous amous cookies out and his bag on the table. And we're like, we're recording this, Ron,
We're gonna take it away. But I love the I love the shirt for our YouTube audience too.
Thank you.
Well, something very important is happening exactly one month from now. Yeah, we got to make vote yes. Yes, But thank you Greg, Thank you very much. Jordan's always great to be with you.
I'm so happy.
This is very surreal for me to be sitting first of all, on the same side of like a lectern or a desk or something with you, Ron, after covering you for so many years. But then also I'm really happy because we're going to talk about defense today, among other things, and Ron just has such great perspective to lend for.
Us on that.
Yeah, we thought it'd be fun to talk with Ron about the defenses that we find the most fascinating so far. And so we're not we're not ranking them, we're not seeing these are the best, but just ones that would be interesting to talk about, Ron, because it's it's a year for defense, yes, right now, like it's happening. It's it's the run game, it's defense. We've been waiting sort
of for this push and pull. It started a little bit last year and it's definitely happening more aggressively right now.
It is because I think the game is changing again.
You know, every so many years you see this kind of trend going one direction to the other, you know, and I think the trend now is heading towards running again. And part of the reason because I think the defensive players have gotten smaller. Because the defensive players have gotten smaller, you see offenses being more physical, more aggressive upfront. People are running the ball more. We talked about this earlier. Rushing yards are up compared to the passing yards which
are down. So that's something that I think is due to the fact that defensive players are getting smaller, quicker, but the offensive linemen are getting bigger, more physical, and they're athletic.
Yeah, in part, that's the domination of the spread.
Obviously, that's forcing defenders to be more hybrid, smaller, framed, more multiple, play them in the box, plan back deep if you have to, keeping a shell over the back of things like we have heard some people yelling about on TV. Not you, Ron, never you, but other people
yelling about on TV. But you know, it is interesting because we are in sort of a sea change and one of those things and some of the defense we're going to talk about today are built for it and some are interestingly built for the past, but still doing some cool stuff.
Yes, for the present.
Yeah, let's talk about him.
So I guess I want to start with the Vikings because they are They are the team that is the most gonzo. They are the team that you watch and you think, like, what exactly are they doing?
Now?
They've been blitzing for a minute now with Brian Flores, and their blitz rates still very high, second in the league. But to your point, they are going very light like they play with their dime defense I think thirty one percent of the time, which is the most in the league. And so they have three safeties on the field quite a bit. They use them in all these creative ways Harrison Smith, Josh Mantelis Cam Binden. But they also have three cornerbacks on the field quite a bit, so they
essentially have six starters. Like, how do you see this Vikings team? Like how are they doing it?
Well? The biggest thing is, too, is upfront, they're very stout.
They still play very physical, whether it's four down linemen and a linebacker, n four down a lineman and two linebackers. One of the things that coach Flores does very well is they're very simplistic in terms of some of the things that they do, and they're very good at being very basic. But then the complexity gets you because of the pressures. The way he uses the pressure is the
way he he mixes up his coverages. He's not always sitting in the same thing, and because of the different personnel groupings that he's willing to match up with, sometimes you get mismatches in the defensive favor as opposed to offenses always getting the positive mismatches.
Yeah, ron, I wanted to ask you this from your perspective as someone who has called defensive signals and plays and had had to counter offenses and communicate with the with the mic and really make sure that those counters
are implemented with your defense. You hear some of the former players in that system talk about how late the call is getting into the green dot and how late it's getting communicated, not in a bad way, in a way that he's almost giving them a third counter, especially with all this pre snap motion that offenses are using to try to take the teeth out of some of the pressure.
He does run or some of the formation changes they use.
So from your perspective, like, if you're going to do it that late, you kind of see it the way they built their defensive roster with those veterans, what are key elements of that communication to add that that late counter, that third counter right up until the snap.
Well, first of all, the biggest thing you just said was about having veterans, having the right kind of guys back there that are you what I call air traffic controllers. They're the guys that are making those decisions, making those late checks all of a sudden, And so what you have to do is you do have to have very bright, intelligent guys that can help make those calls and checks and get them across to everybody. But also you also got to have guys that are committed to the work
ethic of what it's going to take. And with Coach Flores, I promise you they're walkthroughs, their meetings, those things are very very good. I mean they're constantly probably talking about what ifs, how can we handle these things, and what are our adjustments. You know, back in the day they're called AFC's automatic fronts and coverages based on what you get from them from the from the offense, you check
on defense. I learned that from Buddy Ryan, Rex Ryan and Rob Brian use some of that when they were coaching in the league as full time coordinators and head coaches. Those guys were always thinking that, again, we want to put our defense in the best defense to match with the offense potentially does these formations.
It's interesting though, because now offenses are giving more questions to the defense. They're asking they're asking him to declare what they're going to do, essentially earlier in the snap, earlier before the snap than ever. So the fact that he can make a second check and safety's joke about this, Oh maybe one day we'll finally win because we'll get a third check. Well, Brian Flores is able to give that third check because he can lean on the communication element.
Let's talk about that too, because they are they're on a you know, the cliche is they're on a line together.
But a phone line too.
I mean, they're not able to talk to each other like directly in the helmets, but the fact that they can communicate in this way, they're kind of gaming the system a little bit with what offenses are trying to get them to tell them. First of all, they're not showing what they're actually going to do because they're they're countering it with that check or that rotation so late in the down or in the snap.
And that's so important.
Again, you know, it's not just about being able to disguise what you want to do and give the presentation to Hey, we're going to play this type of cover because we got a safety tilting that direction. Okay, that could be a false key. You know again, just because I'm tilted doesn't mean necessarily I'm gonna stay down, or I'm a lined up over the top of the number two receiver and the nickels cheating in like he's gonna go ahead and run a pressure, you know what I'm saying.
So again, disguise is just as important and being in tune with one another so that if I see he's stepping down, okay for this specific call, that doesn't necessarily mean on the quarterback sides, oh they're rotating that direction. No, we could be doing something different because I know he's moving this. He's telling me something else.
Right.
The quarterbacks just seem like they're confused. They're holding the ball longer we were talking at our desks Jordan about that. It might take a quarterback, you know, really being confident to spot throw because there are gonna be holes here. If if you're blitzing a lot and they blitz about forty percent time, it's actually less than last year, and you're dropping a up safeties back, it's a that's a strange way to do it, but that's that's kind of.
What they're doing.
They're trying to, in theory, have an umbrella over everything. There should be some spots to hit on the field. Are they kind of willing to give up some big plays in order to make some big plays? If you're Brian Flores, you need maybe a quarterback like a Gino or an Aaron Rodgers or some sort of veteran that's a little stafford, a little more confident throwing into those areas when you're playing a defense like that, and you don't find many quarters backs like that in a league anymore.
No, because again, what.
They're trying to do more for anything else is if they're going to give anything up, they're going to give things underneath yep up. And again a lot of things they're going to do, we're gonna also be based on
down and distance. You know, understanding that Hey, second and long, Hey, it's okay, Yeah, they complete something quick underneath, we'll drive down, we'll make the tackle, we'll be in third down, or if it's third and long, hey, we're willing to give this up because again it's about making the tackle, getting them down, getting out of the situation, forcing the punt.
So again, a lot of the things that they do are all calculated.
I promise you Coach Flores is really looked at these things, thought about these opportunities, put them in the game plan. He's got guys that are understanding that can communicate that to the guys that are lining up out there on the defensive side.
It's an interesting way to ask, like to dare a quarterback. We think about daring the quarterback with the pressure, right, but you're daring a quarterback essentially. If you want to beat us, if I'm Brian Flores and the Vikings event, if you want to beat us, you have to play truly blind football in a way, because when you talk about spot throw, is what Greg's saying is throwing to a landmark on the field without maybe even seeing where
that is. Because there's so much pressure coming into your face, and it's going to be underneath. It's not going to be the explosive pass play. So you have to play this like ego list blind football, and quarterbacks don't want to do that.
No, they don't. There a second right now.
In EPA, per play fifth in success rate, So their top team in terms of total efficiency in DVOA. If you want to get into the numbers, and I just you gotta be appreciate coaching because what I just from a more of a layman can understand is when a new coach comes in and the players that were there before are performing better in certain aspects. Harrison Smith, we thought was maybe getting towards the end of his career. I swear he's playing as good as he's ever played.
Josh Mattelis no one's ever heard of Josh Mittelis before. They got him play in six different positions. He's paying down lineman and he's like a safety. They got him playing linebacker, they got him playing safety, they got him playing cornerback. He's a really key part Cam bind him. You have guys at cornerback that are like journeyman Gilmore and Byron Murphy.
Is a nice signing.
But with Shaq Griffin and they're all playing I think better and they understand what the coach is asking him to do exactly.
And I think one of the things too, is when you've got guys with the same skill set, okay, and now all of a sudden, you can sit there and say, well, they can't create the mismatch that they want. We can create the mismatch. Why because we have three guys out of the same skill set, whether they be three dbs or corners, or they'd be three line safeties. Now, all of a sudden, you have one guy that come down and play like a linebacker, and you say, well, the
other two can't. Well, all of a sudden, you start motion, and all of a sudden, instead of these guys chasing him, they rotate the other direction. You can go, okay, so now we know they're in the zone. But guess what they're playing, man?
Yeah, you know what I'm saying. Usually when a guy runs across what he got what you usually got, man.
And I love that.
I love that they're countering motion this way because motion, like I mentioned before, it exists in part. There's a lot of other things now that coach smart coaches are doing with it. It exists in part to get the defense to tell you what coverages they're playing. It's an information seeking tool. Now, of course there's formation changes things like that, but they're not giving any information and in fact, they're getting more from you when you go.
In motion, because then they are going to give another check.
And a great example team that uses motion to id or to undress the defense is Miami with the way they take their receivers and they move them over here, and they put somebody over there, and they put them in stacks, and what they're looking for is to see how you align against them. If you align over the top, they're thinking, okay, we've got man coverag you align shading on the inside two three yards off on the inside,
they know they got zoned. So again, if you can disguise, if you can move yourself properly and put yourself in position, that's one thing. Then if you put yourself in the right position, can you react and get to where you need to be? Right examples if if you get motion outside and you get a linebacker goes that lines up over the top, and all of a sudden you sit there and go, wow, we've got man coverage. Well, you've got a mismatch. You've got Christian McCaffrey against a linebacker. Now,
all of a sudden, where's the safety favor? Now, if the safety's favor over there helping against Christian McCaffrey, Now who's that open? Well over here, you know we've got Debo open or he's one on one because they're showing single high. That's what the defense, the offenses are looking for. How does the defense counter that? Well, I can favor over here, but I can play middle of the formation.
So there's things that you can.
Counter to help, uh, support what you want to do on defense by again proper disguise and understanding where that help's going to be.
It's the defense dictating. I know Ron Rivera loves that. It's like it's like when he was on the field for the eighty six Bears. We're gonna dictate, not let the offense dictate. And Flores has been so fantastic this year. I think he will will see how the rest of the year goes, but I think he's worthy of getting
some head coaching interviews. I think that's gonna be an interesting moment for the league, considering the litigation that he had had with the league, and I really hope that it is in a situation where he doesn't get coaching interviews because that would be a bad look for the league. He didn't he didn't last year, which definitely caught my eye, and we will see. Well, hold on to that for a second. Let's go to Let's go to some other defenses that we find fascint you throw out a favorite.
We could go Broncos, we could go Bears. I mean the Broncos. I'll throw out the Broncos.
I want to talk about the Bronx.
The Broncos are surprising to me. They are the team that's leading the league in blitzes right now.
It's just crazy.
Almost half the time they're blitzing and they're just testing your protection. And I was surprised that they seem to outsmart Aaron Rodgers, who you would think is among the best play callers in the league, even though he's a quarterback and he gets help obviously from his coaching staff and everything. And their offensive line was a little scrambled where that pressure was coming back.
You know, they made him hold the ball.
They hit him fourteen times, they sacked them five times, and they've been really effective. I think Vance Joseph maybe made the decision maybe we're not the most talented group up front. Totally, they're not bad, but like we're gonna need to scheme our way into being great.
Well, I think one of the things again, if you go back and think about what happened last year, people wanted to see Vance Joseph fired from Denver and again now all of a sudden he you know, Sean, sticks with him, gives him the next year coming into it. And what does that mean, Well, it means that these guys on defense are now in the same system. They have a little bit of experience of what you expect
from what coach Joseph wants. And now all of a sudden, there's this communication aspect, because when you watch these games and you see these guys, you know, giving the handsignal, do you see the looks, you see the points, you see the movement. Now all of a sudden it starts being put into place. Everything he wants to do is all based off of these guys communicating. And that's probably the biggest word that we can use in terms of why are there are successes. You've got smart players who
can communicate. You've got a defensive coordinators trying to put these guys in proper position to make place. But they're also being given tools to Like we talked about earlier, is we can check, we can go from one coverage to another. We can show zone and play man. We can play man and show zone. We can split the defense and play a quarters on one side, half on the other, so we can roll up and take away
a specific side of the of the offense. So there's a lot of tools that these coaches, especially these veteran guys that you're seeing. You know, these guys are you know, guys that have the experience that have been have done it before, and now they've got the players that can match what they want done.
This is their moment, okay, and I love though.
You know, when we talk about blitzes and extra pressure and those types of things, it can sound maybe like it's complicating things, But in the case of the Broncos, they've actually made things less complicated in the sense that they're playing with this ethos that is very trademark, that is rare that people don't actually get a lot of these days because they have a shut down elite corner, and so you can flex a lot of different coverages. Like you said, you can be very malleable and like
play very free and mathematical on the back end. If you have Pat certain who, by the way, has only allowed eight catches for eighty five yards through the four games when targeted, and that's against receivers that he's shadowed of over sixty percent of routes, DK Metcalf, George Pickens, Mike Evans, and Garrett Wilson. When you are simplifying things in the sense where you're like, all right, I've got
that guy. Now everything is going to revolve around that guy taking away at least three pieces of math for the offense because those receivers, those caliber receivers are plus three players. So that revolves around taking away that of math essentially and then flipping the leverage. Okay, yeah, you can send extra secondary players and linebackers to blitz because you don't even have to worry about the plus three. You can send plus one plus two on your side
because you've already taken care of plus three. And it's it's interesting because they've simplified it in that sense where it's like we got a dude so yeah, we're going to revolve things around the dude.
How do you ever have a cornerback like that that changes the way you coach the rest of your defense?
You you, you do do that when you have that gutten most certainly, and you have guys that are similar to that, you can do it as well, whether it's at the corner position, the.
Linebacker position exactly when you had two of them, yes.
You did, But we have guys like that now, you coach everybody else differently because you know that, hey, they're not going to need the help inside and coverage. So we can take those those those those those safeties and play them a little wider. We can play a little bit more middle open defense, which you're starting to see a lot more right now, is to try and stop
these passing games. And that's also part of the reason why I think there's a little bit more running going on, is because teams are playing a little bit more cover two shelves, okay, And because of that, you're getting less guys in the run box and more guys are running the ball. So again, it's about whether you have a player or a positional players that you can say, hey, you know what we can add one or two and
take away one or two from them as well. So again having guys that are pretty special, you know, Luke Keekley, Thomas Davis, those guys, those guys. When you have those types of players, that's a special situation. And now, as she talked about certain with Denver, now you can roll your coverage opposite, okay, and you're gonna say, we're not gonna let this particular guy beat us. We're gonna put our best guy on him. He's going to know he's going to have help to his inside or help over
the top every now and then. He's not going to get a lot of help. And we're going to try and eliminate this over here with the other ten.
We're going to try to help Riley moss Out, who's fighting for his life. On the other side of year, player was hurt last year and teams are going after him and he's holding up. Okay, some penalties, some bad plays, but they they've been very consistent. They're tenth against the past, fifth against the run, fifth overall in terms of DVO way and they're they're making it work and it's made them watchable because these bow Knicks games.
This is this is where I feel.
I feel a little sick because I'm just like I kind of missed just I like different flavors. I love me a Gino golf shootout on a Monday night, but I kind of like a ten to nine just like, oh man, are either of these teams going to score?
Slopfest?
Broncos jet So I like having different flavors in the NFL. Broncos giving us that. Let's talk about your Bears.
You you can, they'll consider them your Bears. I guess you've been going up against them.
For like the ya but you know what, when you've played the Bears, you'll.
Always okay, okay.
So you've just in Chicago was great.
So you've coached against Matt eberflus a couple of times.
Went and looked. I found a twelve seven Washington victory.
So their defense was already playing well back then against you guys. My question for them, and you can tell me what you just think how they structure things. I've had questions of some teams are they built for this twenty twenty four football? Because to me, they're built very much on both sides of the ball of like we're going to stop the pass, and the numbers would say they're one of the very best stopping the pass at getting after the quarterback, and maybe we're not as focused
on stopping the run offensively. I think they're also kind of built to throw the ball and not as much to run the ball. And I'm wondering if those teams could be in a little bit of trouble this year. They haven't really stopped the run that well. But we think of them as like an elite defense. I don't know if they're quite there. They're very good in past situations, not so much against the run. Is that kind of the Eberflus defense or what is it?
To me?
What I've always kind of thought Matt is almost a a ben don't break type of defense. Keep the game close that way during crunch time, something big can happen on the defensive side.
We're special teams.
I was about Sage.
That's the one one thing that don't forget about what they've done on special teams in terms of they've blocked a punt return it for a touchdown. I believe that was the Tennessee game.
Yeah, the punter also against the Rams completely iced that game out.
Dorry Taylor.
I mean, people were getting on him for a fourth round pick that's way more.
Valuable than the majority of one round games. Come on, I mean he really did.
If you think about where they kept pinning, yeah, I mean that, you know you statistically it is it is very hard to go eighty yards and score touchdowns. It's even harder to go ninety yards and score touchdowns, let alone ninety eight yards ago and score touchdowns. So having that weapon has really helped their defense again as well, because if we can keep them pinned on their side of the ball, I mean, ascuse me of the fifty, you're going to give your defense opportunities to be successful
a lot more. Plus what it's going to do is create better field position for your offense.
Yeah, they're one of the few teams that I think you can genuinely consider that special teams unit as an extension of specifically the defense, and especially with you see actually that that's part of the plan with the way that the Bears are pressuring more in the second half versus the first half, and they really dialed things up.
I saw it in person this this past weekend. You know, it's interesting that actually shows you that even though they're not usually playing with a lead that they're still going to rush the passer or try to dial pressure as much as they can on opportunities that other teams are throwing the ball and they have to throw the ball.
Because they're backed up.
And so that's even if you don't you know, even if you're the Bears and you're in a deficit, if you can back the other team up, they're going to feel like they have to throw the ball against you.
Teams that have had success against the Bears are always in front of the chains. They're not chasing it. And if you can get them as the Bears get them to chase it, they're going to be very successful in a terrific pass rush. You know, Sweat, I think is really one of the really really good outside edge rushers in this league.
And he'll continue to do those things for your guy.
Yes, he is a good, good football player, and he has really helped that resurgeon since he got there last season. So a lot of big pluses for them as far as that's concerned. And again, a lot of things that Matt does on defense, for the most part, is very solid sound football. They're not doing anything overly extraordinary. What they're doing is they're doing the basic things very very well, and all the little wrinkles they put in there are very good.
And they've drafted and developed to that strength. They've taken a lot of players in the defensive backfield. Some hit quick, some took a little longer, but overall now it's one of the best young groups in the entire NFL. They got to try to win that way. But yeah, the Bears special teams excelling. We're a long way from Cody Parky and the double doink way back in the day for the Bears. All right, let's before we let you go, let's sort of I don't know, do we have a
favorite coach? Actually, you're you know, you're with the Commander last year before we talked like maybe our favorite coaches the year so far? You know, you're are you still in touch with what's going on in Washington.
Well, I pay attention to what's going on throughout the league, and and you know, and I know coach Quinn very well. Dan's done a tremendous job. I'm a big fan of his, you know, because again I had to compete again, thinking almost every every every year when we were in Carolina and then you know, he goes to Dallas and I finally thought I got rid of and he's in Dallas, and now deal with that again. I stayed in touch with with Dan and big fan of what he's done.
Also a big fan of Cliff Kingsbury. But but he's doing for the Commanders and and and he's dealing with Jaye and Daniels has been tremendous.
It really has.
You know, Jane's done a tremendous job learning and growing and continue to develop. And Cliff probably one of the biggest things and best things they did. Knowing that this this is their guy, he went out and tried to find out what he did best at LSU Okay, and took that and kind of morphed that and evolved his offense. And now this quarterback is not just necessarily learning a whole new thing as much he's learning to do what
he does best and improve upon it. And the young man has worked very very.
Hard for them.
Yeah, and to expand even further. We see the best coaches and coordinators do this. We see them do that research to not just say here is my system and you are going to run the plays in my system, and we have selected you because you're a fit in my system. Instead, you identify plus traits, exceptional traits, and
you select. It's not the whole playbook, but you select from a bucket of those plays that are plus plus plays, or that are comfortable plays, or that are plays that you can understand make a difference in that quarterback.
And as you know, we did that in Carolina. We did that with Cam Newton, Rob Chazyinski, Mike Schule. They go down and they spend time with Auburn. They learn as to what they did and how they use Cam Newton, found try to find out what best fit Cam and then they took those things and they mixed them and put them together and created the offense that we used in Carolina for for for all those years with Cam Newton.
Odds are odds that Mike Shula was down in the Auburn heat still wearing the same hoodie.
Yeah, probably Mike's and Mike is a creature of having.
Little Mike Shula inside joke. I love it between these two. It's like, I don't know what you guys are talking about. That's amazing.
Though.
It's cool to me that you mentioned you were on the phone with Cliff and everything that like, you know, you were there last year and you're you're talking about and hearing about the things that.
That he's doing with Jane. That's just that's football.
Is it really is? It's football, I mean, and that's what it's about. It's about the business of the game.
And when you see coaches do some really good things, you know, you want to make sure you get an opportunity to talk with the acknowledge. I mean things Todd Bowles is doing in Tampa Bay getting his opportunity again. Well, you know, and somebody the people keep forgetting about Andy Reid. I mean, sure, he's won back to back Super Bowl, so let's be honest about.
You'll get bored with success or like me, my wife and daughter, they're both just they're more casual fans and they're just like we're sick of the cheek. I think they represent a lot of people. They don't they don't want to hear about Andy Reid. We recognized Andy Reid's like.
All great, think about he's got to do it again, He's got to do again. But you know, the guy that he has on his side that helps him an awful lot of Steve Spagnol.
Yeah, and again we talk about defense.
We talk about a guy that schemes up things, the guy that grew up in the Jim Johnson system. And a lot of people remember who Jim Johnson was one of the great all time defensive coordinators. I put him up there with with Buddy Ryan. I mean, these guys, you know, they had their own way of doing things, and guys like Steve got the opportunity to learn from it. And look at what he's doing, look at the success.
He's an aggressive play caller. He gets after quarterbacks okay, when he knows when to back off and play coverage. They mix their coverages, they disguise their coverages very very well.
Read might be by coach of the Year so far, that's out of the box pick which it shouldn't because they're four and oh.
The box, I know, but it could be that every year he could.
But this is a year where I think they're making more with less and they're finding ways to win. And that was how they ended last year frankly too. And that's that's coaching. That's margin well.
And and then you know, and and and and just don't forget Kevin O'Connell.
Oh my pick for coach.
I mean, we know he's got coach Flores taking care of the defense. Go do your thing. But what look, look what he's done with Sam Darnold.
Yeah.
Yeah, but I would also I would push back on you a little bit. Ron for not the first time in my life that I think that hiring Brian Flores speaks a huge significant amount of Kevin O'Connell. Not because of you know, the prestige and the and the reputation as a former head coach, but because you're coming in and you're buying into a system that is going to come into practice every day and absolutely freaking torture your own quarterbacks. And that's an ego list decision. It's an
ego list decision, and I think he knows. And also like not forcing as an offense, Oh you.
Know this, dude.
Offensive coaches, Oh man, this is I'm sorry, I'm gonna rant a little bit. Offensive coaches, they so often get into this habit of high or going after defensive coaches who are going to compliment what they do on offense less so assert and a completely holistic identity on defense.
And the Vikings are saying, we are going to kick you in the teeth on offense with smart scheme and sound quarterback play and a balanced attack and interesting ideas, and we're going to be aggressive and we're going to throw the ball even though we're up twenty eight to zero. And also on the other side, cut loose Brian Flores assert you're not complementing quote unquote in the way that we talk about complimentary football.
It's complimentary in.
The way that it all works, but you're actually saying, Okay, I want that unit to assert with its own identity, and I think that is a huge, huge trademark of what we've seen from Kevin O'Connell and his identity as a coach so far, and I think it puts him in contention early well.
That to me is not the only reason, but I think a lot of it has to do with the way Sam Donold has played, and I think part of it too is having the opportunity to practice against coach Flores's defense.
Every day as well.
I'm better against the Blitzroun.
Absolutely and they help each other, and that's to me, and I agree with what you're saying, because when you see the aggressive nature of your defense as an offense and you see the way they're taking the ball away right now. Yeah, OK, And you can say the same thing about Detroit. The way they're taking the ball away. That's great. Why because they're putting us in position to score.
That's one of the big things that we always used to talk about in Carolina was winning the takeaway battle, and not just that but scoring or putting the offense and scoring position. Go back to the year Philadelphia went to the Super Bowl. They led the league in takeaways in the first half and they're on the opponent's side of the fifty yard line, which led to more scores, and their offense was the leading scoring team after takeaways.
So these are things that you try to preach to your team, and when you see it happen as an offensive, you get fired up. You can't wait for your defense to get back on the field and take the ball away for you.
And now they're the opposite the Eagles. I think they've lost the turnover battle in ten straight games. It's hard to do that is lucky wise, and that's a reason why they're they're at two and two.
Well maybe even lucky to be at two and two.
You're right about O'Connell and Flores that it takes a little bit of a lack of ego, because I was hearing reports from some of the beat writers there during camp that there were moments where they're like, can you just let Sam Darnold and in our rookie like complete a pass. There were just some days where they were just totally scrambling the quarterbacks and they couldn't get good work in. But eventually that that's going to help them out.
That's that's why I have Jordan Here's she's smarter about all this scheme stuff than I am.
It's why I have you here, Ron Rivera.
I'd love to have it you again because you show me how to wear like perfect glasses that fit perfectly, which has been a goal of mine forever. I mean, you're killing the glasses game, killing the T shirt game. Appreciate you coming in roun.
No, thank you for the opportunity. Guys.
This has been a lot of fun, all right, I argue with you again.
I love it. It was great to see you guys, kind of you.
Know, just real quick.
Whenever we say press conferences, Jordan would sarting if she was at the end of the press conference we would go over. We would go longer than I was supposed to be out there because she would come back with something that I have to talk about. Then she says, so we'll say, yeah, but what about this? And so it was more you know.
That's like our podcast.
Yeah, I'd even follow into the golf cart.
That is very much like our podcast. That's why we're still going right now. Like we can't stop honking. But we got to get Ron on a plane. You're you're heading back home. You got to get to the airport. Appreciate you, Appreciate everyone checking out the show. We got one more show this week. It's going to be My Pick Show with Cynthia Friedlan, So check that out. That comes out Friday after noon for Ron Rivera and Jordan Rodrieg of the Athletic and Gerald McCoy. What a star
studded show. We got the big names. Football is back