Bills Titans Recap & Arif Hasan on the Vikings

is what I am. And I mean if this is a figment, I'd like to also is my I'm having a bad hair day? Um? Is that a figment of my imagination? I'm wearing a shirt that my parents sent me. You know that was too It's about two sizes too large for me. But one of the Bunker casts um benefits, as I'm sure you notice some degree, is that people can't see any thing other than this little box and so the shirt looks presentable. Um, they can't see my

hair from other angles. So why is it that when moms send shirts and it's adorable and moms are amazing, Um, but they always send them like seven sizes too big, Like, what is up with that? I think that's what they what's the what they maybe want us to be? Like? I always are you eating well? Are you eating enough? Well? It's like you've sent me a shirt that I could fit three of me in. It's like this is a shirt for a five hundred pound man. Man, mother, what

is happening? Mother? I just appreciate that Mark, you know, doesn't have to go into work. He's kind of put it in the most comfortable thing he he owns a button down, you know, checkered, two sizes too big polyester. Well, I'm trying. I've never worn this on our show before, so I'm premiering it right now. All right, this is a good one, good good pod, good Tuesday pod, Like the Tuesday Pod during the season, Chop it Up a

little bit, has some fun. Arif Hassan, who covers the Vikings for the Athletic I'm I would love this Vikings team. I've always had a soft spot for the Vikings, but the complete stupidity of their two thousand twenty one season. It's just a big, stupid, dumb, fun season so far. And as they hit their bye week, at three and three. Um, this feels like a good time to check in with Minnesota. And a Reef is a fund into the show, and I feel like he's gonna give us some answers trying

to figure out this team. So that's coming up. We also, the off fore mentioned Cleveland Browns have a very important football game, a monumentally important football game, uh, coming up on Thursday, and we're gonna get into that. We're gonna preview that game against the Denver Broncos. Two teams, uh, sitting at three and three and trying to figure out what happens next in their season. But before that, well before that, how are you? Greg? I'm great? Yeah, that's

that's nice. I'm good. Uh. Devin Keith, I picked him up at the airport today, so I got my parents in town so my mom could give me a triple XL shirt size shirt in person, So I'll be nice. Um, and I'm gonna have a couple of tetoes with the old Man and UH and enjoy the marksess on Thursday night recap a little later this week. I'm just mom. I mean, I feel like my mom stopped giving me shirts. I don't know, fifteen years ago because I was because I was a jerk to her. I was, you know,

I was just like, stopped giving these shirts. Greg. We've positive that you were born fifteen years ago, so it's you know at some point, um no, but I think what's what for me? Regenerated? Um My mom sending me shirts as an adult male was being on the television and she's like, you look sharp and shirt, you look handsome. I want more. Here is my mom. By the way, here's deep hands is just wanted to get her purse. That's Debbie, she's a legend. Did you bring me a shirt? Actually,

I can't tell you what I brought? All right, all right, we ruined the surprise. All right, let's do some Monday night football. Alan under center, sneak make that I do not know. Let's see where they spotted. We did not make that, but the Titans stick. They have stopped it. Let's wait, Alan tried to sneak he got nothing or so it up? We got it? I got it. I did it. I did it? Yes not yes, not yes,

pill yes, Dade the radio call. Those guys are amazing homers, especially Mike Keith and Dave McGinnis or w g F X Titans with what a victory. What a victory for the Tennessee Titans, who you know, a few weeks back, you know, fell on fell on their butts against the Jets of all teams. And now in Monday night they

go to to toe with the Buffalo Bills. Derrick Henry goes mad running for a buck forty three and three touchdowns and they get that goal line stopped at the end of the games and a lot of hype to talk around that game and the decision Sean McDermott made to go for it there, greg Um, your thoughts, let's start there. Let's start at that fourth down. It's fourth in less than a yard. The Bills have a chance to tie the game. Instead, Sean McDermott leaves his offense

on the field. Uh, the execution obviously wasn't there. But what did you think about the decision? Yeah? I like the decision, you know. I I don't love Josh Allen's decision to kind of veer left there necessarily look like it's maybe a bigger hole on the right, but he slipped. I mean, a game comes down to navigating the QB sneak strategy. I like it. I mean, it's up to the QB where he goes it. It looks like there's a bigger hole there. Jeffrey Simmons is sitting there. They

kind of won. It wasn't a typical of the night. I thought the Titans defensive line, even though they gave up a ton of ards and points, played pretty well on the interior. You know, it very much was a Mike Rabel, our guys are bigger than your guys type of game, which worked on when the Titans were on offense, did not work when the Titans were on defense, except in a couple of spots. They went up front and

they got a little lucky there. That's what you need to do to beat the best team in the league. I mean, in the fact that Josh Allen, he's he's twenty nine of thirty two on third and fourth down sneaks. Career wise, I like the decision personally, I think for me coming out of this game, you know, it doesn't change how I feel about the Bills. There there, four and two. They easily could be, you know, with a few things different. Five and one. That's they fit right there.

They're still for me, the class of the A f C. But I you know, Mia culpa, because on our Friday around the NFL broadcast show, UM, and I'm getting killed, um by some people in the Tennessee area for this. I said that this game would be a prime time embarrassment for the Titans, and you're getting put into one of those little um mash up films of every talking

head loser that you know, pretty to doom for Tennessee. Um. But you know, it's like I think that Week one crushing by the Cardinals, uh, was a poison pill for a lot of people that just kind of wondered what Tennessee was going into this season. But it's Derrick Henry and just watching him run. I feel like his touchdown, his early touchdown run that made it seven six was it's just sort of a thundering announcement every time he barrels down the field that way. And I made this

comparison before to you guys. I'm trying to figure out, like how to describe what I see when I watch him run, And the closest thing I can come to is like a gigantic um steel front door being dropped off the top of a building towards like you know, eighty eighty. Uh you know stories below onto crushing four or six cars. That's what he's cases. Something you're making my mind do like inception level, like gravity turns. Try

to figure out the comparison. But I get what you're saying, that he's a monster and a beast and pretty much unstoppable like gravity. I you know, the Titans aren't like a great team. Well, they might not even be a good team. They have j Brown and Julio Jones on the field there. However, However, the one thing that the Titans are are battle tested over the last couple of years, and they are afraid of no team. And I think

we saw that if you put them. And this is why Mark, I don't even remember you making that disparaging comment about their chances in this game. Um, but that's why, when you think about it, you take a step back, you realize the pedigree of the team and what they've been able to do the last couple of years. The fact that they're playing at home, the fact that it's under the lights and that crowd was gonna go mad

not that's stunning in retrospect. But at the same time, it's the Bills who have been a much better team this season. So you just gotta give the Titans a ton of credit. And it really changes the shape of their season because I think they go from a team that a lot of people have questions about, whether it's the coaching staff or whether the roster is as good

as it needs to be. Well, now I feel like this is gonna be similar to a lot of the other Titans teams where yes, they're not gonna go you know, fourteen and three here, but they'll go ten and seven or eleven and say, and they could be trouble in the playoffs because they have And I was thinking about this, boys, I'm curious where you come down on this. I'll start

with you, Greg Um. In my football fandom, uh, my choice for best running back of the century is Adrian Peterson and when he was but both before the knee injury and then that especially that first year after the knee injury, I just thought he was special to the point where he was at all time great. And this Derrick Kennedy, it wasn't just yesterday obviously, but this run

that he's been on for three years. If he stays healthy this year and puts together a record breaking season in two thousand yards again, Is he the best running back of the last years? Is this who we're watching in these games? I don't think so. But he's gonna have the best numbers over a three year stretch, the most dominant three year stretch any runner has ever had. But I don't. I don't think he's That doesn't mean I don't think he's he's the best. Like success rate

matters to me. He has so many unsuccessful plays and it's worth it. He's obviously a great runner um, but the fact that he piles up those one two yard runs before he ends up breaking him I personally would take a guy like a Peterson or La Dainian Tomlinson if we if we throw falk into this century, uh, certainly him ahead of him, because they're winning in so

many different ways to play after play. Now that said, if he stays healthy right now, he's on pace for five touches, he's unpaced, so he's breaking new bounds even for the big dog four and fifty carries. If he can keep up that pace and he can lead the league and rushing, rushing, touchdowns and attempts for the third straight year, I mean that it's never been done so that part of its unquestioned that like, statistically, no one's ever had a three year dominant stretch. I went and

looked for this, like O J was pretty close. Um, Tomlinson was was pretty close. Uh, and Peterson certainly, but but never never this dominant. I would take Adrian Peterson along with Greg on that. But I love the idea of what Darre Henry is accomplishing during this span in one not back when Peterson played, when there were a you know, a laundry list of featured backs back then that you could count on, fantasy wise or whatever to

get a certain amount of carries. I mean, it is just an atypical age for Derrick Henry to subsist in and like I love game, like they would have they I think they would have been blown out in the first half. Tanneh helped played one of the worst halfs he's played all year. Um. Did the Bills get stopped two times inside of ten? You know, one time Josh Allen miss is a pretty open receiver in the end zone.

Another time Titans make a you know, good stop. Um. But for the most part, the Bill's offense is doing what they wanted. And if Henry doesn't pop off that run and Henry doesn't keep them afloat in these games like they're done. Like I want to see what this offense looks like with and with the A. J. Brown and Julio healthy and together. And I don't even think we got that last night because they're going. You know,

Julio is the last three plus years without there. But this is extra because the offensive line to me, is a lot worse protecting Tannehill and the defense is still showing very little signs of life. They had. They had a couple last night, but not not many. Taylor Luwan got hurt in this game. Two more quick things on Henry. One, Yeah, the the long touch gener run changed that game too. Um, his straight line speed on the touchdown run was the fastest according to the next Gen stats. And he running

back has reached the season. So when we're talking about a unicorn one of one, a guy of his size, that is the fastest running back this season as well on a play, yes, that would be the speed of an iron door being dropped off the building. It's the same, accidentally speed. And how about this. I know that this will be completely left out of the lineup because it's an ill it landed in an ill way for the two of you. Um Buffalo special? Why are we not

trying for an helmet catch on that play there? I mean, as are we just going to continue to get that sensation under the road. There's nothing unique about it. It's not it's it's ironic. The Philly Special actually isn't really special because everyone hasn't there, but it was when it occurred. It has been copied. That something is copied does not mean that it wasn't initially a an original site. I'm sorry, Mike,

you'll never get those sandwiches coming at it. Um. And here's my last note on Buffalo Boys is for all and you check under the hood and all the advanced analytics says this is the best team in football. There four and two record. That's fine. They're gonna be fine in the a f C East. I think this is a eleven twelve win team. Uh they will be in contention, I think for the bye. Uh So everything's I think

good for Buffalo, but it is. It's interesting to note that there number one are close to it and almost every major offensive category except for red zone conversion, where there twenty six. Now I think they're too good to not get that straightened out. And I would imagine that Sean McDermott is gonna be working hard on that to figure that out. But we saw in this game, Greg you noted it, including their game ending on a stall inside the ten yard line. That's something that they need

to get better at. Right. They lost the fourth order ten and nothing they they It felt like they could have put up about forty five fifty points. They didn't, and I think this is a bad matchup for them. They got you know, the Titans put up a forty burger on him last year too. They are a lightweight, faster flowing defense, and the Titans aren't that complicated. They are just big, especially on offense, they are trying to

bully you and it seems to work. It's just another reminder like, no matter how good your defensive stats are, you're probably gonna be mediocre if you play against a

really good offense who's playing well. Because every stat was that they're the best defense, you know, the league, But it's really just they've played pretty lackluster offenses and when they got up against a team that was playing pretty well in the second half, uh and they got a few a little help by their defense keeping them in there. They got run over this go ahead, no no, go finish. Now mine was I was going to veer off into some game broadcast criticism, which is, you know, my special

circle ahead. I was just gonna say that. I mean, you have to love where the bills are set up. I mean after the bye they played the Dolphins, Jaguars, and Jets, so they're about to be seven and two. Greg, please on your broadcasting tips. Let's hear some Greg game broadcast honking. But we we've been gone back and forth about this crew, and all I've got to say is they didn't discuss whether that was a good decision or not to go for it in the moment, Like literally,

it didn't come up. They didn't They didn't explain the situation. They had a time out to work with two in there that ended up being taken, I believe by the Titans, didn't come up, just sort of overwhelmed by the moment. I put that on the play by play more to set it up for the thing. But it's crazy to watch. It's a crazy situation. Overwhelmed by the moment feels a little strong, but I see what you're saying. I don't know.

Maybe this isn't just like happened. It literally just happened like the conversations happening on Twitter, but it's not happening in the broadcast. And that was one of you know, that is a moment that like coaches would have never gone for that in the past, right, he didn't with no hesitation. Here it decides the whole game, and it took until after the play of being like like to your point on that it is the job of one

of those three dudes to bring it up, um. And also the reason why you bring it up is not just to say, oh, by the way, you can kick a field goal here, because the audience knows that. But I think it does speak to a larger shift, as Greg notes there in the way head coaches, or at least the smart ones now operate, which is, if the game's on the line, or I need a huge play and I could choose the conservative route, or I could put the game in the hands of my best player.

You're seeing that more and more now, and that's what McDermott did. And maybe it's becoming so common that the guys didn't think to bring it up rather than they were overwhelmed. But um, I think it's worth, it's worthy bring it up. I think if I don't know if McDermott got killed for it after the game, if he did, shame on whoever did it, because that's just I I think. If you're the Bills and you're walking on that tunnel, you're thinking to yourself, Man, eight or nine times out

of tend we win this game. Uh, and it just didn't come up our way. Because man, these these these primetime games, and it happened last week with Baltimore and Indie. They're weird. These are strange games, and they're like what I do with the powering And sometimes I'm trying to figure out, like do you have to add like that weird like Monday night voodoo when trying to figure out what it means for a team and what does it say about them, because just weird stuff tends to happen

in these games. Here's what it says that the Bill's defense didn't get a stop, literally no stops in the second half with a chance to win on the road. So that's that was a little surprising to me. Count the truly dominant defenses in football, right now, Like who's out there truly dominant even the once we talked up like we talked about I think there's some that can create problems, but that there's no there's no truly dominant one.

I mean the Browns. The Browns are defense that have struggled, the Chargers, the Rams have had their struggles, like all the teams that you kind of circled, even the Bucks. I know it's a lot of injuries here too. Um I put the Bucks in that. I trust the Bucks to figure out whatever issues they encounter. I don't think the the Bill's defense is a total mirage, by the way. It's just you know, they got beating, they got beaten, a bad matchup. The Titans need, um need Julio to

to stay out there. I feel like to them for them to realize there. But then it seems it's getting harder and harder to do as he gets older. Um A j Brown also is you know, I had some chronic health issues, so there's you know, with the Titans, everything has to be I'm very happy for Grave Digger. I'm sure that was a thrilling win. It must be cool when that happens for your team. Um, but also a lot of things are gonna have to go right for the Titans to make a deep trip into the playoffs.

I mean, it was a heroic performance by A J. Brown by all accounts. Derrick Henry said after the game, He's just glad that they had enough toilet paper uh in the facility, uh to to deal with the food poisoning that A J. Brown was dealing with. And and how much um he was pooping. I guess uh, I think that's what he was suggesting. Yes, he got it from Chippotle. He said he will not be getting a any sponsorship probably, you know, calling Chippotle out, but it was.

It was Chippotle and he goes seven his best game of the year. Turned my stomach a little bit. Some graphic toilet paper talking a big spot right as if Derrick Henry is in charge of the toilet paper supply inside the Titans building, he had he was whoever supply and all that toilet paper. The great toilet paper stories ever in NFL history was the last time the Jets

went to London against the Dolphins. They they said, you know, we've heard stories about the quality of the toilet paper in England, so they shipped three and fifty rolls of toilet paper to London, UM to take care of their hig niece in a big spot. And they won. So let's focus on what matters from the Jets organization. So they got the w that game. UM, all right, that's

Monday night football. Let's talk Vikings and to do that, we will welcome back certified friend of the show listen not a member of the hit It and Quit It brigade and our live shows in London. People are asking who are the guests that are on the hit It and Quit It list? Maybe we shared, maybe we didn't. You'll never know one person who's back because we like him as a Reef Hasan who covers the Vikings for the Athletic and Uh a Reef welcome back to the

Round the NFL podcast. It's been a couple of months. Yeah, man, thanks for having me back on. I mean, we have to be the only like national podcast is just like, man, we haven't talked to any kind of team reporters in the in the country in a long time. Like where do we go first? It's Vikings. It's car beautiful is like it is fascinating. It is a fascinating team. Weirdly though, I love the Vikings, I've enjoyed watching them really for the balance of the Kirk Cousins are. There's just all

sorts of stuff going on around this team. And and you've been covering a Vikings team this year that has been all over the map where they've looked terrible, they looked great, they've had late game meltdowns, late game heroics. So three and three, I guess, is about right from where from where they are right now. But where do you see this team in terms of like a ceiling and a floor, because it's kind of hard to figure

that out where we stand. Yeah, Like sometimes it just feels like judging teams by records leave so much information on the cutting room floor, right, because there's like three three teams that are average, right, and then there's three and three teams that are completely all over the place that you could just be anything, right. And and that's exactly what the Vikings are. Uh. You know, when the offense is rolling, it's a really good offense, your top

eight you know, maybe offense maybe even better than that. Uh, and the defense has looked really good. You know, Patrick Peterson's not healthy anymore. But you know when he was healthy. It's looked really good at the past, you know, a couple of games, and so you know, if that happens at the same time, it's a really good team that's got a shot to make the playoffs. But you know that hasn't happened at the same time. Either the defense

scaring them, the offense is scaring them. Hasn't been both, uh, and so when those things kind of collapse, you know, they're they're bottom tier team. You know, the offense can't get going, play actions not working, deep shots aren't there, defense is giving up, you know, big plays. So you know, I kind of wish I had an answer to kind of what trajectory the vikings are on. But like it is a it is a wide band of outcomes. I mean, I could I could see them pulling off a run

of like five straight wins. A tough part of the schedule to do that, but you know I could see that. Um I could see them doing five straight losses. I could see them losing by multiple scores. I could see them winning by multiple scores. Anything is on the table with this team. Total chaos. Yeah, I think it's got to be the best. Kirk Cousins has looked to me in Minnesota, and that's a reasonably high bar. But I just feel like he's playing so well right now and

he's playing a little freer. I mean, he keep putting him in positions to set up a game time or game winning field goal. And if if I'm right, I think he's four for four. Uh, you know, Joseph isn't

four for four, but I think he's gotten him. And they had the Browns game that was the only time that he wasn't able to do it right and that was like a delin Like, yeah, that was a little different, but like when you when it was just like he was not right and didn't and at the end of that game last week, Actually, I want you, since we've talked about this so much on the TV show, to break down the shove with Zimmer, because I'd like to

talk about cousins is play, but the interpersonal dynamics between the shove and the moment that Zimmer's face appeared to be truly angry at Kirk Cousins or just like what is happening I'm getting shoved? Yeah, Like what do you think is going to just up for the audience that might not know. This was the conclusion of the Week five game, when Greg Joseph hit the field goal to save them from absolute horror home loss to the Lions.

Reef take it away. Yeah, I think I think Cousins is just like trying to be a He's just a guy trying to be a dude. I don't I don't know that he's got a lot of experience in that department, so you know, he initiates contact. Zimmer I don't think likes it when other people initiate context. I think like reflexively, you know, he's reacting to that. But yeah, I think they're kind of enjoying the moment and they're caught up

in the emotions and Zimmer's got a reflective response. It doesn't help that like the one guy is holding Zimmer back and that makes everything look like ten times more like dynamic than it actually is. Like Zimmer's about to like throw one on Cousins. And the course the next week, there's a there's a shot obviously taken by the Vikings, but there's a shot of them coming out of of of Panther Stadium into the tunnel where they're like waltzing

or something. I don't know, but I feel like that is like a direct response to the to the weird coverage surrounding which I'm entirely deserved, weird coverage, by the way, surrounding the you know, Cousins and Zimmer's reaction to the game winning field goal. I would ask you this. I mean, it's like the I think there's these camps that you know now everyone is in love with Kirk Cousins over

the last for weeks. That's fine, but it's been long stretches of time where it's the Kirk Cousins is the reason the Vikings can't go from kind of good to great.

I would ask you, though, is maybe you know, you look around the league and we've got all these young, aggressive coaches, And I listened to your pod Norse Code, which I think is a great name for a Vikings pod, and you talked about even watching last night's game, where like, oh wait, there are fans out there like a Titan fin that has the experience of just watching their team go in and do what they do well, focus on their strengths and man handle someone else the way that

you'd hope, and you're looking at the Vikings and it's it's like this hot and cold thing. Is it actually maybe Zimmer, who is the guy who's on my radar, is holding this whole operation back because to me, it feels like someone who's stuck in like while the rest of the league is evolving and changing. And he's also very cantankerous. I don't know, like, is he happy, happy with him? What's going on here? I get it? And thanks for the podcast blog. I means I don't have

to do it. Yeah, No, Zimmers like really weird because you know, in some aspects of football, he's like way ahead of the curve. He's like a really innovative defensive mind. He's very flexible when it comes to that defense. I mean they've changed and shifted their coverage rules, their covered shells, what they like to do on defense so many times. I mean a lot of people know him for the double a gap look, but there was like a period of time in the middle of his tenure with the

Vikings he didn't do that very much at all. He just found other ways to create one on one matchups, and a lot of people are taking what he does from a front perspective and applying it, you know, to defenses. Nowadays, and so, um, there's some areas where he's very innovative, very adaptable, and there's some areas where he's just like, yeah, you gotta run the ball to win. I mean, that's just how football is, and so he just kind of have to like figure out where he is in some respects.

In that last year they were one of the more aggressive teams on fourth down. If you take a look at you know, the various bots out there about you know, is it good to go for it or not? The Vikings were like a top ten team on fourth down, and rest of this this year they're like third to last. UM. So sometimes it's just like very weird to figure out

kind of where the Vikings are. UM. I don't know that that Zimmer is directly holding back the offense from being kind of a pass forward, innovative offense, but I know that his presence kind of does that because the only types of offensive coordinators that he's ever gonna hire or bring on board the types of offensive coordinators that agree with him in the running game. So I don't think he's like interfering with like the way the game is called and asking for them to do this in

the game plan. He tried doing that with John d. Filippo and that did not work out, so we just fired him. Uh, And so he brings in offensive coordinators that and you take a look at like what Pat Schirmer did after he left, You take a look at what Kevin Spanski has done after Zimmer's left, and they're doing the same stuff that they did, you know, with Zimmers.

So it's entirely about kind of who he's bringing to the building and the culture that he's trying to establish, which is I think from an offensive point of view, a little bit backwards. Now Clint Kubiak comes from that tradition, he's doing some kind of newer stuff. The Vikings are doing motion a little bit more. I think they've hit league average and pre snap motion rates. Um they're much more willing to have three receivers on the field at a time, which, like what an innovation that is, but

like it is a little bit more modern. The Vikings are getting rid of the ball really quickly now, Like I think Cousins is one of the faster times to throw the first time in his career that he's ever been in the top ten in that category. Um, So they are doing some new stuff, but within that framework of yeah, I mean, Devin Cook gets the ball thirty times you win the game. That's just math. Like, that's the framework that sometimes that they're still operating under it.

But you know, back to the shove, I mean, it's kind of like the main reason I wanted to reef on the show to deck. I'm sorry, um, but the Zimmer and Cousins they like each other. Let's be honest. Let's like they can has any quarterback that's played for Zimmer, like, has he like really like mmer close, like like like Teddy and Zimmer were like father and honestly, yeah, um, Like Zimmer was real broken up about the fact that they had to move on from Teddy, which I mean,

did they have to? I don't know. I think he's kind of maybe transferred that resentment onto cousins, Like I think that's kind of been unfair, Like, you know, son in law is sort of like you have to live up to these expectations sort of thing. Um. But yeah, I mean we asked because the Broncos held joint practices with the Vikings this year, and we asked him, were about Teddy? Because of course we did. Why wouldn't ask about that, and he just like went off like about

how much he loved the kid, which is great. I mean, you're right, everybody loves Teddy, but it's like very much like when when when Cousins gets hit like in the head when he's sliding or something like that. Yeah, Zimmer will be mad and you'll yell. But like when that happened to Teddy, especially, I think against the Rams a couple of years ago, Uh, Zimmer went onto the field. He was ready to fight some players. He yelled at

reps three different times in the same game. I mean, this is poetry Gregg here, so just you know, I mean, this is such a Kirk Cousins storyline though, because this was his thing in Washington. Yeah, like the coaches and the players, they don't really like love the guy has his love full of play helped change that. I think think in Minnesota because they obviously like Jefferson and Oz like, they obviously must respect him. He's delivering some dimes right

now and he's pretty big and big moments. I think Osborne especially right like a guy didn't even get an offensive snap last year, had like less than six yards in his final year of College. Like, yeah, no, absolutely, Osbourne I think is probably on board what Cousins is doing right now. Um, but yeah, like I I think that he's earned their respect, but I think respect earned

through solely through level of play. He's like fairly thin ice, right, because that can just fall off if your play falls off. Whereas like you know, Teddy won a locker room right, like he just like he's not even playing all the well and people love him right and so um that that's I think a little bit harder to lose that kind of respect. Um. So that's kind of the question, right if if Cousins kind of folds right and he's a streaky quarterback, like you're right, especially the beginning of

this year, Cousins was on this incredible hot streak. Um, now it's like a little bit less true, but he's still kind of up there in terms of like a lot of statistics and like you said, clutch moments. But if but if, but if the streak turns the other direction, which historically it has, you know, is he gonna be

able to maintain that respect? I mean, justin Jefferson his rookie year, um, and these were just field outbursts that they might not mean much, but there was like a time where you got caught on the mic, you know, yelling that he was open and Kirk didn't throw it to him. Right, Um, I believe you know he cursed a little bit of a blue mention as well. But Kirk Cousins was actually a bad quarterback. He'd be like the most hated man in NFL history. He's out, Yeah, yeah,

Well I think that's the problem. I think you have to be like exactly that good too, like create that level of resentment, right because you get the feeling that you're like because people didn't like hate Christian Ponder, they were just like I would like to move on. But he's a good guy. It's not his fault with Cousins. It's like, I know you can do this, Why aren't you doing this? I see a new Kirk like and

that that touched on Osbourne. His underneath receiver was open, and it's like Kirk Kirk went, oh yeah, he went for the he went for the kill shot. He's like, I'm not leaving this up to Greg Joseph for or Lettin Zimmer run the ball on third and long to set up a fifty yard field go I'm like, gonna go for the win right now, not take the first down. I do feel like he's he's playing like a little scrambling more here, he's scrambling. I would just say let's talk in a month. But okay, I mean, I'm I'm

with you. I mean, I like being part of this because I said, like, you know, Kirk Cousins is like a you know, Baker Mayfield's future if he's lucky right now. I mean, at this point, he would want he should want to be Kirk. Now you're just starting fights with a guest on the show. We don't have time for this. We get it, I I get I think there's a lot of Cousins in the league. Right, there's there's You've got your Garoppolos and your Mayfields and your Tanne Hills.

Right they all have various degrees of how much they're willing to play kind of looser with the rules. Like Mayfield and tann a little bit looser. Grappolo is a little bit tighter. But yeah, no, I get it. I'm on board. It's just like it's a tough thing to say, Well, Bakers like plugging through an injury, probably shouldn't float through um diag. We're gonna talk about Baker in a minute with our TNF preview, but before we say goodbye to

a Reef, I'm gonna do it. I know you just said they're capable of winning five in a row, the kid will of losing five in a row, and that's certainly true. But at the end of the day, we come to you for the bottom line, and I'm setting the vikings over under final win total at nine and a half. Where you coming in it was like six more games with okay, um, Yeah, I see it, I see it. I'm gonna take over and half I'll take

I'll take the over. I don't know, it's more fun if I take the over, So I'll just take it over, right Because the NFC it's very murky. You know, you have those superpower teams at the very top, and then there's a lot of room for you to win. You know, nine nine games might get you in a wild Yeah, and you're lying numbers like the Packers are not that great, Like there's a there's an opportunity. I'm not saying they're better than the Backers, but there's an opportunity they have.

They have five more division games, which is, you know, a big chunk of the schedule. But they also have the Cowboys at the Ravens and Chargers at the forty niners. The Rams are They're like, this is just like a lot of a lot more insanity to come. I do feel like this was a good choice stand like the Vikings are just gonna be a great supporting character in this. I don't know, I don't know for sure. They're such a jug head team and this is good for a

reef as as the beat guy. But like, doesn't it feel in the stars that this particular and the Vikings are infamous for having crushing losses across the spectrum regular sets in the playoffs, This more than any other Vikings team, seems like they're built for some type of Greek tragedy of epic proportions come January. I hope it doesn't happen, because Vikings fans don't deserve more of that. But I'm a little worried about this team in particular. Oh yeah,

they're setting up all kinds of b plots. Yeah, no, for sure, all right, yes. Check out North Code Reefs podcast on the Minnesota Vikings. Also that Wide Left podcast. This guy's got content all over the place, A refa son, thank you buddy for joining us, and UH, enjoy the rest of the season. Thanks for having me. Thank you enjoy it. See Ari bye week, little bye week check in on the Minnesota Vikings. Who are they talking about

one team? We want to talk about all the teams. Relax, We enjoy it, and we feel like not just Viking stands enjoy it as well. It's good to get a little get a little deeper. We literally talk about all thirty two teams except for the bye week teams um three different times every week on the Thursday preview, on the Sunday recap and UH on the Friday Around the NFL broadcast. Possibly too much, I you know, to be fair depending on who the listeners, we should to spend

Tuesday just like talking officiating and TV broadcast teams. Just to save that sounds like sounds like Greg Solo pod. Not something that we that we're choosing to be on. But now what you're really here for. Brown's talk on the Around the NFL podcast Thursday Night for Baul Denver Broncos at Cleveland Browns to three and three teams. Once upon a time, the Browns were three and one, the Broncos were three and oh, but both squads have fallen on hard times. It was announced on Thursday that Nick

Chubb will not play on Thursday Night. We already know Kareem Hunt who suffered that calf injury late and Sunday Sunday's loss. Uh he is on the shelf for an extended period uh weeks. He'll be out unfortunately. And then you have the saga Mark Sessler of Baker Mayfield, who um revealed to the media this week that he had,

you know, he suffered the labor m tear. It's a complete terror of the labor m he's now telling us, and of the you know, the injury that he suffered on Sunday against the Cardinals is added complexity to what's going on. And yet he had a quote today that I'm the one who decides if I play or not, and I am playing. Uh pet paraphrasing a little bit. There is there somebody that might need to step into protect Baker from Baker. I don't know if I'm if

I need to go there. Um well, I mean, well, I mean but I don't because I because I think it's spinning it like Baker's being reckless and out of control. I think he just desperately wants to play the same the medical profession can stop him from playing if they if they believe he shouldn't play, they will stop him from playing. So I would want that out of out of a quarterback that you know you're gonna need people to drag him off the field to not get in there.

And I don't think every NFL quarterback is that way. Um do I think he should? I mean, I guess you know that's up to them, But I think that he's been hindered. I mean, you saw much he was in severe pain after he reinjured it in that last game. I think it does um affect what you could ask Baker Mayfield to do on things like rollouts and certain you know, some of the stuff that I think he was more effective at last year, like the percentage of those plays they've run has gone down a bunch in

the last couple of weeks. Um, And you know he's in a tough spot. You look at the Browns and you know, if the both teams are three and three, there's no question that you know. I'm seeing stuff already on Twitter that the Browns were the most disappointing team in the NFL. I mean injuries. You cannot blame everything on injuries, but in this game, they've been stripped of the identity we've latched onto all off season and through last year, which is the best offensive line in the league,

which may not have either tackle we'll see. They haven't put either of those guys on I R. Which I think is notable that they're going to be playing soon. But this Thursday, we don't know. Best backfield in the league completely gone. Uh you know, you just you got white outs that are banged up. So who's gonna step up? Is it gonna be the defense that was completely overwhelmed and flamed by the Cardinals against this Teddy Bridgewater Broncos offense. Maybe,

but they've got plenty of weapons too. I don't like the set up for the Browns at all. I think the Browns after last year, coming out of that season saying that Kevin Stefanski, outside of a couple wipe outs early on by a f C North foes, was the coach of the year and someone that you could trust implicitly with game plans week after week. Has had some issues up in this season up and down. I mean they I love them going forward on fourth downs, but

they have been terrible on these fourth down attempts. It's cost some points. Um, you don't veer away from that strategy. I get it. You'd be absolutely removed from the media to suggest as much everyone wants to go for it on fourth and everything, and that's who they are. But they've not been successful and a lot of that is on Baker Mayfield, and Baker Mayfield has not played well in three weeks. The Chargers game, he played well, but like he did not do what you need at quarterback

to do. At the very end, I'm with you with on that guy's I'm not trying to stick up for him left and right. Um, this is a very tough spot. And von Miller before you know today, basically announced that he is going to destroy whoever, whatever human being. The attempt to put it left is directly correlated to how long his monologue is. Well, no, because you know you got you get one shot on this show to talk, so then it's over. But I'll tell you something else,

Like it's not nerves. It's not nerves, it's like they are. If anything, I feel I feel honestly and make you. Guys may deal with your fandom differently like my My move is typically to start to detach emotionally because I I don't really like where this is going. The vibe is ill right now. I don't like the vibe of the Browns at all. I told you that going into the Cardinals game they don't stack up, and now they're

completely depleted. Well, this, this matchup sets up perfect because the Broncos are, if not the worst, among the worst teams in terms of pass rush, in terms of pass rush win rate. So you would think you don't get after Baker too much. I'd love to see, you know, if those tackles are playing. I think they both might. We we don't know. That's a huge factor. The issue with Baker's injury though, and saving him from himself is he's the one that keeps getting himself hurt. His number

one fault as a player is getting sacked. He is second worst than the NFL in like a staff PFF has, which is like converted press sure into sacks. He's one of the most sack quarterbacks in the league, and yet he's one of the least pressure quarterbacks in the league. You can see it. He thinks he's Russell Wilson. He thinks he's Aaron Rodgers. The play he got hurt on was a play he just held it forever. And he thinks he's gonna make these plays and he does sometimes.

I mean, he couldn't have made that Hail Mary without great escapability and incredible arm. But more than those great like, he doesn't make them at a rate that it's worth it. And he gets sacked a lot and a lot of the time it's on him, like they have protected him well and in the calibration of when to let go of the ball has not been there this year, especially on Sunday against the Cardinals, like those sacks were on him. And so that's It's it's a lot of things. It's receivers,

it's the it's the offensive game plan. But like that's the number one thing I think he needs to fix. And I think the Broncos are a great team to do it against because they're really struggling to do anything defensively. We thought they'd be a good defensive team and they're giving up thirty a week right now. They're big. Denver has lost three straight games, and uh yeah, they they're not getting after the quarterback. They're struggling to protect Teddy Bridgewater.

Bridgewater when he's pressured, is making mistakes. Uh. He had three interceptions, one of them in garbage time. But he didn't play well at all. Last week. He was sacked five times. They're missing opportunities. So it's like my take on the Browns because yes, they are banged up. A lot of teams are banged up. The Browns are especially banged up right now. But you just no showed against the Chargers. You're in your building, it's a short week,

You've got a struggling Denver team. Miles Garrett, clean up, kick ass. Win this game on your own, Baker, if you're playing, find a way to get Odell Beckham involved, make some big plays, get a couple of splash plays. You're not gonna score ton of points to beat the Denver Broncos, but you're gonna need to score a couple

of touchdowns. And I think there are there's still star talent intact in Cleveland and at home on a short week against the struggling team, win game and then get to take the many by and and try to get healthy. I think that's that This is like a survive in advance because I think if Cleveland doesn't win this game, all the things that you're saying mark about kind of the bad vibes in the bed juju around it, it's

going to amplify. And there's they're gonna be really if you're hearing buzz now about the Browns being one of the most disappointing teams, if they lose at home on Thursday of the Broncos, it's gonna be amplified times too. So they gotta find a way in this game. And and to your point with Myles Garrett, I mean Teddy was sacked five times. He took thirteen hits against the Raiders. Um the Raiders blitzed on three point six percent of the time that game, So you know that's another quarterback

that's taking punishment. And this defense, for all, for how stacked their secondary is, they have given up twenty three pass plays that are twenty plus yards, which is worse than all but seven other teams in the league. So there should be opportunities. This defense has not become what we thought it would be in August, not yet. Uh. And their offensive line is not is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. So Miles Garrett does need

to show up. He has to have one of those games where you questionable look at him as a defensive Player of the Year type candidate. Even last weeks. Even last week, though I thought their defense kept them competitive in a in a in a way that you know the offense couldn't stack up. There was a stretch in that game where they they they forced a couple three and ounce in a row, and they stopped the Cardinals from scoring touchdowns on short fields either two or three

times in row. And that was like a five drive set there, And that's where the offense needs to, like, your offense needs to take advantage during that stretch. You can't ask for that much more against the Cardinals if you throw away the Chargers game when they didn't have Clowney reward and they really were injured on defense or getting healthier. And now I think they've generally shown they can they can beat some bad teams, or that they can make a difference. It's right now, the Broncos offense

is mediocre at best. Your county on Tim Patrick in Courtland Sutton to make place Jevanti Williams is absolut really a good running back. But this is a mid level offense that was counting on their defense to be very good. Instead the defense is as bad or worse than the offense. I do think the Browns have more players. I think they have more ways that they can beat you. I'd love to know that the tackles are playing, or even one of them. That certainly would help the pass the

game against Denver. But I do think it the matchup works out okay because Denver right now they just can't get after the passer, and I think the Browns will be able to score enough to win. They gotta win this game. They are favored, not not by a ton, but if Baker is playing, you gotta win this game. You can't go three and four, you know, when you're really honestly playing a team in Denver that is beatable, no matter why. The injuries are one thing. I'm not

putting this all on the injuries. I mean you're right there in that like there are five or six teams that are scattered on that. For the well, the Ravens. You know they have seventeen players in I are that leads the league. They're not all premier players. But you're right, like their position groups were wiped out going into the year. Right, the Broncos are very similar and Teddy Bridgewater showed the strain of it last week, like he collapsed in that game.

He played an awful game by far. His words on the team of uhe of th h A L. I mean they're not playing well. I thought the defense would be a lot better there, hurt um that you know, they're gonna get Jerry Judy back, which I think will help, but it's not going to be for this game. It doesn't look like and that that was what was gonna make them special, like all of these guys to throw to plus a good defense. The defense like isn't good. That surprises me. I think Fonio maybe can figure some

things out. They're still healthy in the secondary. They shouldn't be this bad. Uh, But they need to win this game too. This is kind of a you know, boats sailing and direct different you know, yeah, that's right. Questions about his job future A right, right, I which is not surprising. If the Broncos could win this game, they get to four and three again, they hope they get Judy back, and like you hope that this is a bad threat of the season. If their defense doesn't get

better than this, I mean they're cuke there. Pinch yourself, Greg, you got Geno uh in prime time like three or four weeks in a row. Here Gino versus Jamis in prime jais you got? And now you're gonna get um the team of fall Um in prime time against Marks Brownies. And by the way, Mark is I'll be uh listening in like the rest of you. Mark says he has a special guest joining him for the Thursday Night recap, So I mean, I feel like win or lose, you're

gonna want to check out and see, uh get Sessler's temperature. Well, I By the way, there wasn't some sort of power move where I removed you from the TNF recap. This was something you know behind the scenes. You have family there, So I'm hoping that you know you you said you will take a seat and I will make a power move. Those are your exact words. That sounds like something i'd say, right, yeah, Well,

I hope it works out for you. Mark. Oh, isn't it better for you if it goes terribly, terribly poor? And then I know we wanted to go Well, I just you're really building up this special guest. Well now, I think though now maybe too much. Like I mean, they are a very special, you know, individual, but I think they would be annoyed that I'm pumping them up

to this degree. Possibly very interesting. Alright, good stuff. Check it out and Connie fox Um will be of course anchoring the coverage on NFL Network, so make sure you watch that as well. All right, good stuff, Tuesday show in the books. Anybody have any final thoughts? Greg, get your expenses done from our trip to London. I have not done that now. Oh, people should know that we didn't get a chance to address it on UM Sunday night, and I'm afraid that I'll forget Thursday and then people

will just be confused. But I got him, you know, breaking news here, Ricky. This was the the terms of the trade um between Greg and I. Greg, of course, famously, last Thursday got jumped in the draft because of a hesitation like two thousand seven Viking style. Um. I swooped in. I took his beloved Chargers Ravens ball game. Greg came to me privately, pat in hand, he said, listen, we gotta make this happen. We gotta we gotta make a

trade here. I need that game. And I saw leverage and I um exercised it and I said, okay, you can have that game on Sunday. That will be your game that your primary watching. And I get to jump you at any point in the season going forward in drafts three times on three occasions. So I have three jumps of Greg Rosenthal, uh, starting in Week seven through

the playoffs for really week seven or week eighteen. So keep an eye on that because I'm hoping to make the jumps really really hurt quite frankly, I want to. I want it really to stick in Greg's side. And

I knew you were and the Chargers and Ravens. It wasn't even a good game like the what would be the best for the show because I said, you could just jump me the whole rest of the season, but you, to your credit as a host, realized, like there's not as much excitement, uh in that it'll it'll feel more

more drama with with this setup. I mean, Greg, I have to ask, I mean, a you know, your first lever poll was in Mike Tice fashion to completely miss the pick um and then you turn around and overcompensate Dan to an extreme level. The the Greg's inner front office is um, you know, I would say at this point in turmoil, it's Belichick in It's like I live in the moment though, and then ultimately I realized, like if you just told me I'm picking third the rest

of the season every week, I'm fine with that. Just give me the game. I wanted to short downplay it, you know, downplay it as you as you need to. That's fine, Fine with that, alright, good stuff. You do, get the turn, you know, you get the you get them. What was that? That was the snake? That was a snake? I don't know. I can't make it snakes. That's the snake, all right. Schedule Thursday, preview show Friday around the NFL broadcast. The numbers are we're just doing huge numbers, um both

nationally and internationally. We're doing big numbers. So if you want to get on, it's like getting on the surfboard before the big wave, before it's like, you know, you want to be on. You don't want to miss the wave. That's my surfing analogy. Matt money Smith probably can do it better. Get on the board because we're doing huge numbers week after week. I think you nailed it from a kind of it's a good show. It's a good show. We were getting better and it's a good show. Is

it a good show because it does huge numbers? Or does it do huge numbers because it's a good show that they ask questions, don't ask questions. We're just we're writing that. You know, Sunday Deposit put it right. Thank you to her, Arif Hassan. This is Dan handsOn signing off for Ricky Hollywood, who I think is alive. I don't know. We haven't heard much for her. She's been under the weather. Ricky, I'm here. I made it. Are you physically in a good place? Yes? Yeah. It took

about a full week. But no one, no one can get sick, no one can get injured. This, these these four people together, we must, we mean, we need to get on a Cal Ripken like streak starting now. All right, hands signing off for Cal Ripken. Is a baseball player played many games in a row. You gotta connect the dots, especially the international listeners like who's Cal Ripken? Stupid Calvin Riken, you say, tail players that he'd gone s