They're gonna try to stop the run, and they're one of the best in the league and they want to establish the run on their side, and we got to match that physicality. Trenton gil Fields of the twenty four escapes nice run back, only one man to beat and Gil down the sidelines, skirting the sidelines and takes it all the way into there's a flag down. Give it to foreman and he's in the anata. Foreman takes it into the touchdown field goal at check for Eddie Periro
and Nero's kick is no good. That's right.
Eddie Panio comes up short on a fifty nine field go, robbing us of a chance for overtime between Bears Panthers.
Bears win sixteen to thirteen. And I gotta admit Mina chimes with me on this Thursday night recap that I was getting increasingly anxious, Mina, that I asked you to join me for this, of all games, and that it was potentially going to overtime, Like I was just feeling like internal guilt that I, as a friend, asked you to do this and you were nice enough to say yes, and that this thing might be going late night.
Oh Michaels was so stoked when he missed, like, no, the he's just trying to hide it a little bit, but like the tone of his voice when he made.
The call, he was just so delighted.
We knew we were in for. I knew what I was in for. I signed up for this game.
I chow you.
We talked about doing last week and I said, no, Greg, let's wait because I have you on my podcast today, the Minachime Show featuring Lenny first episode back in a while.
Check it out where you get pods.
We previewed a bunch of hopefully better games, and I said, let's record that night so that the listeners can I can, you know, advertise your appearance and so I you know nothing to know my impression of this team. I guess at that time, I thought maybe we get justin fields, which would have been a little more exciting, But you know.
I was I was committed.
I thought, I mean, now you're making me even more anxious that you beat me to plug in your show before I did. No, but the football season is much better with Mina and one of my favorite podcasts. I almost was thinking like, oh, I want to listen to Mina's back. I want to listen to the podcast. I was like, oh wait, I was on it. I don't need to great, I'll wait till next week with Dominique
and all the friends. Look, we're going to go through this game, and I want to start at the end of the game, but we'll we'll talk more big picture with these two teams, thinking about next year and thinking about the trade that they made, and especially thinking about our short king Bryce Young. There at the end of the game. I had mixed emotions because yes, I wasn't really looking forward to an overtime, but I wanted good things for Bryce Young. I wanted a touchdown on that drive,
and it was kind of typical of the night. It was very difficult to get first downs, but they actually did get first downs on that drive. They got the ball back left with seven minutes and ten seconds left on the clock in all three timeouts. They took five and a half minutes, used the time out and went fifty yards on fifteen plays, three first downs, including a handful of fourth down conversions. That was kind of their
offense tonight. It was very difficult and they end up choosing because of a pen you know, because of a fourth in ten situation where Bryce Young almost got picked off the play before to kick something that seemed out of Eddie Piniero's range, and it was out of Eddie Pinnio's range. Like, talk me through I guess what you saw from Young that drive in particular, and we'll go through the whole night. But also that decision to just
like not even try for the fourth and tent. I was thinking, like, this is crazy, this is a total lack of faith. Like if he had not thrown an intercept or a near interception on that play before, I'm thinking they would have just gone for it.
But I think they got spooked.
I yeah, I can't defend the fifty nine yard field goal, but it is in some ways it is emblematic of how difficult it is to talk about the Panthers right now, or rather how difficult it is to kind of analyze what's wrong with the Panthers, because on one hand.
I can say, you idiot, why would you ask you kick to do that?
But the other hand, to any of us really believe they would have converted that fourth and tent. And then on the other hand, is it Bryce Young's fault or is it the steel paer's fault, on the other hand, is the play caller to blame, you know what I mean, It's just like everything is so bad and everything is kind of feeding off of each other at that point.
I mean, they were moving the ball on that drive, largely because the Bears for some reason were seating the only part of the field that they were able to throw, which was like the shallow middle, so you know they're they were.
Bryce was able to make.
A fex I guess stitch together a few completions there, but for the most part, it was a pretty miserable viewing experience. I will say I thought the Pama's offensive line looked better at times than they have through most of the season. But again, the Bear's pass rush is not exactly great.
Shakes right, but they even then, the Bears still sacked him three times. Counting it up here, Sweat and Jones had three QB hits each. I think they had nine as a team. So some of that was on Bryce Young, maybe a lot of it was on Bryce Young, Some of it was on the offensive line. The drive before they actually kicked a field goal on fourth and five at the twenty, and I thought, just like you're going to need a touchdown at some point two and they
didn't go for it. And one of the reasons they did have that drive that they got to the Pinero fifty nine yard attempt is they actually were using all four downs, and I didn't I didn't blame them that they're not going forward on fourth down the day because there was nothing about this offense that gives you any confidence, no running game before that last drive. Their success rate
was lower than any team. Robert Mays tweeted this out in any game this year other than the really, I think the Dorian Thompson Robinson game.
The miserable offensive like the New York football teams had neither of them.
There was there was one other game. I'll find it while we're talking. But like when you when you see Bryce Young right now, what do you see? Because I actually think he was progressing steadily each and every week people that didn't watch, like that Dolphins game for instance, I thought he played well in the Dolphin game, and there were probably four or five throws and a lot of these games that were like ooh, that was those
were Bryce Young throws. But the last two weeks, for the most part, have been pretty rough, including tonight.
Yeah, why this defense is worse than like the Texans defense, which I thought he looked better? Again, well are they Yeah?
They are?
Yeah.
I feel comfortable saying that, especially with some of the reason. Okay, So on one hand, he is right now a quarterback where the TV broadcast which we just watched, makes him look worse than he is because no one is open in this offense much of the time. So when you watching a TV broadcast and he's holding on to any taking sacks, he's throwing it away, it looks awful. Then later when you watch the tape, doesn't exonerate bise Young, but it gives him a lot.
Of excuses, and I suspect that'll be the case.
On the other hand, like some of the misses, it's odd for me because to my eye, a lot of it looks like if he's under any sort of pressure and he can't really like step into it, part because of his stature, he seems to be sailing throws or missing downfield. But on the other hand, it's really confusing because like he routinely made those types of throws in college, and I understand that the speed of play is different. The defenders are different or whatever, but just the sort
of mechanics of it. You know, he would make impressive throws with touch under pressure all the time. So I guess it's it's it's hard to watch. It doesn't feel good. I suspect that if he was in a good situation, he would look decent based on the flashes we've seen. But for the number one overall pick that you just traded, you know, a valuable draft capital to the team that just beat you. You you don't want a quarterback who needs everything to be perfect around him, or even really
good around him. And I think that is why is a Pantas fan. You probably feel pretty nervous at the moment.
Right Someone asked me, They're like, do if you think you know Young and Stroud were you know, switched spaces, would would their results be similar? And I was like, no, I think you Stroud would make more of Carolina, but Bryce Young would look a lot better if he was in Houston. I don't think you would look necessarily as good as C. J. Stroud and wouldn't make the second reaction plays in there.
There probably would be more problems, but he would look better.
The height seems like a thing like on the pick six the second one last week to Kenny Moore, it felt like he was trying to get it over the first defender and he had to put more speed on it than he could. Or tonight there was an early third down where Montes Sweat kind of had a late pressure flashed in his face and then he sailed the ball. And I hate that because I don't want the height to be a thing as a diminutive man myself. You know, I'm loving Tank Dell's breakout season.
Say it's the year of the Little Receiver.
Yes, actually I did a whole thing on the NFL Plus this week. You know, you guys should check it out. I think I think it's still a free preview.
On NFL Plus, but it does. It feels like a factory.
Then again, I think of other number one picks who have had absolutely disastrous seasons. Al Michael said something Tonight's like, in the day we live in, people want to make, you know, quick judgments. And that's true, and we're, you know, two of the people doing it on some level. But at least in the last twenty years, people are always making quick judgments. People made absolutely quick judgments on Eli Manning, who had one of the worst rookie seasons I've ever seen,
and it was getting flayed in New York. Alex Smith was worse, I would say, maybe the worst number one overall pick rookie season. Jared Goff was in that ballpark. JaMarcus Russell was in that ballpark too, and never bounce back. But those are, you know, three quarterbacks that went on to have good careers. Certainly, so I don't think anyone is saying like it means your career is not going to work, but it does mean like this group in
Carolina is being questioned fairly. I think Baldy sent out a tweet tonight too, just like, can anyone explain what Carolina's offense is to me? And I'm like, man, if you've lost Brian Baldinger, I think that that's a problem. Like there was a second and sixteen play everyone where he's on his own goal line and everyone's just running curls.
And it does seem like they don't really have a lot of answers because they don't have great players, and I don't think they don't really have a scheme to overcome it.
Yeah, I was trying to figure out kind of like what's what's the goal here? Like or like you know, because you know, it was frank Reich, and then he passed off play calling to Thomas Brown, who comes from the RAMS, and it doesn't it doesn't look very right like either, I get. I mean, it certainly doesn't look like the RAMS, but they don't have the personnel to do a lot of that stuff. And you know, again that's what the play calling it's like, well, you know, I don't really know, like, yeah.
We can.
I mean there's decisions in terms of like balance and when you call and that kind of thing, but as far as like the actual play calling goes watching this group, I don't know what. I heard that and I agree and it looks really bad, but I also don't know what would work with the personnel that they have. I mean,
that's it it. Yeah, it's pretty befuddling. Do you think Frank Reich passed off play calling very publicly once publicly, once he realized that nothing was going to make it look good and I'm saying it out loud, it's than I.
Mean, a man of integrity, uh you know what?
He he said it earlier publicly actually that he was planning to pass it off all along, and his players said that too. It actually was something he talked about I think as early as training camp that at some point. So I don't think it was some plan, but you're right. I mean, they they kind of mixed up who they're playing a little bit. They like, you know, have a different running back rotation, and there's a couple of things he did do.
More play action tonight.
I don't know when when Adam Thielen is your one and Mingo's just maybe not ready for that sort of role. They're trying to like those guys should be threes and fours and they're trying to make it ones and twos like Terrass Marshall. They were supposedly gonna cut, but he's out there like getting the third most amount of snaps. They tried to trade him before the deadline, So it's tough.
It's a little sad. I'm not totally giving up. Sometimes rookie seasons are are really ugly for a while, and then you can have like a good final three or four games and start feeling better about it. Gino had a nice run at the end of one of those seasons with the Jets, back in the day, so it can't happen looking at like the trade though, Now, what were your thoughts on the trade that you know at the time.
I didn't hate it for Carol. I definitely.
First of all.
One of the things I really got wrong this offseason was I get I don't know why. I thought Carolina's skill group would be fine. I thought the offensive line would be good because they were improving as the season went on last year, and by the end of the year at Kwanu, who's really taken a step back? Although I don't think it was that terrible tonight, to be honest, but at the end of the year, they seemed like they were headed in the right direction. The run game
looks so good. You remember with Foreman form a revenge game last season, So I thought like, yeah, this isn't the greatest group of.
Skilled players, but.
Shark's healthy, and Hurst looks like he did in Cincinnati, it's probably good enough.
That was clearly incorrect.
I mean not that you know, there's been injuries and all that, but it's it's just been so ugly. So anyways, the time, my thinking with the trade was like, you know, you're if there's a guy I love a team doing what it takes to go up and get him. I think though, I underestimated how bad the situation and how in the process of trading away Dj Moore, not that he did that much to night, for example, but how
much worse the situation was becoming. And maybe in terms of like takeaways going forward, as I think about, like, you know, teams taking big swings in the draft and that kind of thing, this definitely wouldn't determ me if you if you have like firm conviction and a quarterback to go up and get him, and currently Chicago will be in that position, but you probably don't want to do something that also immediately sets that quarterback up to fail. So maybe that is the takeaway.
I don't know.
I think this might speak people from the size for a while, though I will say that.
It could be a setback for the short quarterback movement until or in less it improves. Yeah, because Dj Moore is worth like a high first round pick. I know you have to give him the contract and everything, but DJ Moore is like a best case scenario for you know, a mid first round pick essentially, and you have him locked up so that Chicago has to be really happy tonight because they have the Panthers first round pick and it's looking like the odds on favorite for the number
one overall pick. You know, them and the Cardinals are going to be in the mix. The Giants are going to be in the mix. That the Bears now have a third win. The way they're playing, they feel like they'll win a few more games. We'll talk about the Bears. We'll take a quick break and then we'll come back. Okay, we are back, and yeah, we should talk about the Bears. Fans are probably listening to this and like, this is one of the better nights for Bears fans in a while.
It's been a tough go for many years. The fact that you own Carolina's pick and you beat them to bury them even further into your pick. I mean, it's about as good a moment as the Bears have had in a while.
And they don't even have to worry.
About like the whole like is taste in bageing like better than justin field, Like I don't know, no one's going to be getting into that, So they're sort of threading that needle perfectly.
That's another win. I was thinking that coming out of this game where you have I always feel like as a fan, you just want clarity and you want your organization to have clarity, and you know that. I mean, the Bijing thing lasted way long. It even started at the beginning of this game, and I was like, come on, don't you know with Kerganal But they I feel like after two drives, they're like, you know, we're not going to pretend like this guy's more the backup, which I appreciated.
It was like a much smaller version of Russell Wilson Seattle Week one last year in terms of the stakes for the trade trading team and not not really, but like from the perspective of the Bears, you know where you feel really good about it the further you get away from it. I think just the amount of options that they have, feeling like, you know, seeing how bad the team you traded with, is the pick becoming increasingly valuable?
All of it, I feel like you have to feel pretty good about. And there's there's also there's.
Glimpses on their team. I think the defense, You've had a few guys step up over the last I know, I was kind of making fun of the beginning of this but they have they have played better as the season has gone along. There have been individual players who have emerged as like probably being the.
Core if you want to call it that.
Sweat also the trade that actually I think looks pretty good early on. So yeah, it feels like a pretty good night for Chicago.
Yeah.
I think they had a couple Dexter made a one play who is one of their draft picks tonight On the back end, their secondary solid Kyler Gordon's been playing pretty well. Sweat, Sweat gives them something. They just they have too much cap space. Some teams have too much cap space, I think, and it's just harder to find good young players to spend it on than it is to spend So I think Montes sweat was was totally totally fine. Yeah, totally it was. It's very different than
Chase Claypool. Everyone bringing the Chase Claypool comup. It's like, no, he's he's a verifiable, like top twenty five edge, your top twenty edge, and like you can be happy with him and you have the pick. My only thing is like when you're saying they have to be happy like Bears fans, Yes, but when I think they I'm not totally sure Ryan Poles is going to get a chance to make this pick.
Now, there's been some whispers I've heard about that.
So it's like, I don't know for sure, because I don't know if Matt Eberflus, who's now I think six and twenty something. It's like twenty five is going to be the coach for sure, and I don't know for sure if Ryan Poles is definitely the guy who gets to make those picks. And then it's kind of like, well,
why did we why did we do that? And and as much as they are really happy that they made those picks, it's like you still don't have necessarily the quarterback that you believe in and that that's the main thing is you need to get that guy, and maybe that's Drake may or Kle Williams, and they get a chance to take them. But you know, they passed. They passed on the quarterbacks in this draft. They passed on you know homes of course back in the day for Trubisky, but it wasn't that far back.
In the day.
Like you do you think polls and like what would you do do you think Poles deserves enough like to stay and what there. Let's say they like finish out here five and twelve something like that, like whether it makes sense to like keep keep rolling here with Ebraflus and whatnot.
Well, so.
I don't see the case that Eba Flues has made. I mean, the defense has been awful. Like I said, they have been playing better, but during his tenure, I don't think they've done it, you know, as a defensive coach. I don't think they've done enough for him to save the job. And yeah, especially like if you're if you were to get honestly, even if you keep justin Fields, but if you were to get a young quarterback, I would not keep the unsuccessful defensive head coach, you bet,
Like it just doesn't make any sense. In fact, if you get a young quarterback, I think it's probably pretty a pretty desirable job, one of the two for Ben Johnson's or whatever of the world. So I think a lot of this in terms of their future, Poll's future. What they do obviously is going to ride on and maybe it shouldn't, but I just think it will on Fields, who's probably gonna return next week because he was questionable or whatever to return this week. And you know, when
you look at their schedule. I have it in front of me, like, there's a lot of winnable games on here.
So they go.
Detroit, stuff Vikings in primetime Troit again, Cleveland's tough, but then you finish with Arizona, Atlanta, Green Bay.
Those are all.
Games that they can win, all games where I think justin fields, if he finishes the season with a certain amount of momentum, it's going to become like a very gnarly situation for them, Like you knows.
A good way though. I mean if look, I think if they have a top two pick, if Carolina is a top two pick, I don't think it's that gnarly almost no matter how well he plays.
I think they just look at it as.
Like take take quarterbacks.
Amazing that they can get what they can get for justin fields. They can get the quarterback, and you know, who knows what else they can get because they'll have their pick, and they'll have what they can get for fields, and and they have an extra second. It's exciting because look that the picks they got last year for in this trade, we're we're Darnel Right and Tyreek Stevenson, and the picks always look great on paper.
And darneld right.
I think is actually played pretty well last couple of weeks, just from little I've seen Stevenson's a rookie corner who's struggling, but that that happens like but you got to make the picks counting, But that that's a lot, and I think that's something to sell ownership. Certainly that Poles kind of like had set them up well and deserves deserves a chance.
Yeah.
I I remember really liking the trade for Chicago at the time, even if I thought, oh, even if the Bryce Young is really they're giving up a really great quarterback. I guess you know, like it could have been c J. Stroud And in that respect, you know you would you would do it. You like if you if you now are embarrass man, get Ryan Poles and you could turn back time, you would take c J. Stroud there, right, Like that's what you would do. Yeah. But with what they knew, and I think.
With fe what they knew of Fields, Yes.
What they knew of Fields. The fact that when I saw DJ Moore was part of the trade, I really liked it for them because of you know, his value and the fact that I even though I know I said at the beginning, I thought Carolina was a good a much better place for a quarterback. I didn't think they'd be good, so I liked it from that perspective as well. So yeah, I kind of dodged your question about Poles the future he refluse to me is like a much easier question.
It's also a little unfair.
There's like eight games left of this eight games left asking you to talk about another person's job.
It's fair, you.
Know, he's had, there's things he's done that I think that the trade was good. I like you said we talked about I thought the sweat trade was fine. Obviously the Claypool trade is the famous failure. But the Edmunds signing doesn't look very wise. I was befuddled at the time, the decision to go from Rokwon to him, you know, and then seeing Roquon have the year he's having, two year, year and a half he's having that doesn't feel great either. So it's a mixed bag, to be honest.
The eber Flus higher doesn't look great. He's officially six and twenty one. That's that's the number.
Yeah, that's not ideal.
Not good, but they have gotten better. You know they went into this game. Even though they turned the ball over so much on offense, they were above average in yards per drive points per drive like they actually have moved the ball fairly well despite four games with an undrafted rookie backup quarterback who actually looks like a perfectly reasonable backup quarterback long forever right, which is a nice
thing to have though on a rookie contract. That was the whole idea of But behind the Rams drafting, you know, Stetson Bennett or some moves like that. With these Day three picks, you're hoping to hit on a long turn backup. So they've got some things. I will let you out mean a soon before hitting you fast with some important stuff before we go. Do you watch in the Prime vision? You know, the next Jen Stat's Prime Vision on Thursday.
I go back and forth. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.
It's annoying when Chicago because the camera angles so low. It's not it's not up high. The New Orleans one's too high. The Chicago one's way too low. It's it's the same as all the All twenty two tape that you get.
But I wasn't. I was enjoying that. But that You're right.
I when I'm watching that, there was not a lot of plays where I thought like.
Oh, what is brace a?
What am I getting out of this?
Well, not so much that is more like what is Bryce Young gonna do? Just like it's it's not too exciting. What do you think about a broadcast going for a full quarter just having a conversation with Jason Kelcey.
I thought it was not about the game.
Yes, that was, like I mean so that it was had a preseason feel, right, like this whole game had a preseason feel. But like I that was so I don't use word disrespectful because it was appropriately respectful of football that we were watching.
But it was like outrageous, Like.
They didn't even attempt They didn't even ask him about like things. They did a toush push at one point and was he in the booth?
No, they just showed that their own toush push, talked about it. So he missed the Bears touch push.
Which he succeeded.
I feel like toush pushes now are like fourth down where everyone just pays attention to when they fail. And like most it's a fourth down, but most of the time, a lot of the time they work. A lot of teams are good at them, but there's this come out.
There failed on one earlier, but I actually am impressed they didn't give up on it, and they earlier in the season and they went back to it.
There's this a narrative out there that the Eagles are the only team that are doing them well, but like the Bills usually succeed with it. I did enjoy when the Panthers converted a fourth and short and al Michael was saying Bryce didn't have enough tush to push. It was the highlight, personal highlight for me.
He can still wind back and throw ninety.
I was thinking, like all of them, Mayre would have been totally fine if just Kelsey stayed there, and like Kirk was like, I'll see you. I'm gonna go back to college just full time. I know you can't talk about that. That's what I meant.
I struggle hurt him up.
It did.
Man, he's lovely.
He did he go on your show during the combine the draft at all.
He's no, I've not I've not met him or anything or heard him. But yes, I'm I'm rooting for him. It's not it's not too late. And then finally like coming out of half time. I've never seen a coach do this, and but like Iberflus would be under so much more heat if anyone cared about the Bears, because the way he answers questions and press conference is insane.
There's like a Abbott and Costello routine. I wanted to I meant to send it to you about him talking about how how Fields was out but that he was listed as doubtful and he just he can never answer questions, right. He's like Arthur Smith, but it's not a bit I don't know, like he just does. He's really bad with the media. But I love that he came out of halftime.
He's a first ever coach on Amazon or on like a Prime TAK game that he was trying to sell the listeners to stay watching and he said he he said he had something up his sleeve for the second half. What do you think was up his sleeve? I did not see anything that was up his The.
Push, the Comet Tousch push was the second half.
I know, but hey, is that it?
It had to have been something else. I think an onside kick or at some sort of trick play.
That's it.
I was so usually at the halftime with Kaylee Hartung. The coaches look so mad, except for Todd Bowles, who has that like beatific smile that I love so much, like my favorite couples smiling. But he was like having a grand I mean, he looked like a coach who, well, there are high stakes because uge I discussed his seat is probably one of the hottest in the NFL. But he looked like he was in zero fear of losing that game, and he proved to be correct.
Yeah, I mean I think it felt good. He was like, Wow, we're better than this team, Like this is great. I don't know what it's like to go out there and feel totally confident that we can win this game, even playing things very close to the vent.
Every time they cut to Frank Reike, I felt so bad for him, the look.
On his face, his.
I mean, different coaches in different crappy situations and losing I have different levels of sympathy for And I don't know why I watching him.
You can steel the pain if you're an mpath and you are, I mean, you see it and he doesn't hide it. You can feel at all it's coming through the screen.
He looks like like the like a mom and pop owner who knows he's about to fire all of his employees because of the recession, but he doesn't want to. He's like trying to keep a brave face on. It's a rough look.
He looks like a coach that knows that he's coaching a team that was put together by a GM who was hired halfway through the last regime. Matt Rule like fitter throwed up, showed up halfway through and then wasn't hired by that GM because the owner made the higher and couldn't necessarily pick the quarterback that he just took.
That's the type of coach that he looked at.
That's of all the guys we mentioned, Fitter, he rush is should be This is a record for saying should he should be very hot right now? Although if you fired the GM, is that an immediate admission that your quarterback was a bad pick? Is that like a psychological dagger right well?
And and you're.
You know you're calling Adam Schefter reported how you know or tweeted out a few weeks before the draft that you know Reich was was not necessarily for Bryce Young and that David Tepper was and so none of it might be the GMS thing. This this has been a bad owner her syndrome for like five or six year stretch for Carolina. And I don't want to leave Panthers fans on a bummer, you know, but.
That's where we are. It was a Thursday night bummer, but a treat to spend it with. You.
Mean, no one loves ball more than you of anyone I know. So if anyone was gonna join me on this one, because you would need someone that.
Really loves ball, it was you. It was a pleasure. Thanks. I'm glad you're back.
Everyone should check out the Menachim Show featuring Lenny. She's doing twice a week right out of the.
Gate a week featuring Lenny featuring Greg.
That's true me this week.
We will be back here on Sunday for a big week hen recap. Until then, heed the call.