Baker Mayfield sees a UFO and Mike Tannenbaum relives the 2010 AFC Championship

not on today's show. Believe, let go and let God build different mm oh okay, here is uh the tweet almost M fill in the blanket there, Mark said his wife, Emily's his Yes, his wife Emily. Yeah. Were you at the wedding? No? No, I don't. They don't consider me someone that would go to their wedding at all, not even remotely. Almost M and I I have a wife named Emily. I have never once used M. Just to

be clear there, just getting everything out there. I have a wife named Amica, and I do use them sometimes sometimes I wouldn't write it out, wouldn't write it out almost relatable. Yeah, and I just saw a UFO dropped straight out of the sky. On our way home from dinner. We stopped and looked at each other and asked if either of us saw it, very bright ball of light going straight down out of the sky toward Lake Travis. Anybody else witnessed this kind of a insane tweet from

a franchise quarterback, but also different. And I know you like that, Mark, I. I loved it. I immediately realized to why he is the quarterback of my favorite team. And I think, you know, I think it takes a little bit of um bravado to put that tweet out there, because you're immediately going to get killed by nineties seven percent of people, right, So all right? Can can these aliens turn it down here a little bit? Yea, we get the tone. Um. Look I I I believe him

because I think this stuff is happening. I told you when I when I came, you said tweet. Your tweet was, this is my quarterback forever. Now, well, you know we had just gotten together actually last night, the three of us and you guys ate some if I recalled jerk chicken and I had some uh curried vegetables, very nice meal. The three of us eating not at all. I don't that's not that's not who I am. That's not I

I don't go down that road. And then I got home and I saw this tweet and I thought, the world is growing stranger by the minute, um, and it's no one is free of it. I could didn't be more excited that they had this spotting. And I believe you, Baker Mayfield and Emily Mayfield. You, I mean, I'm my wife is from Texas. A lot of connections here, Mark, and she grew up outside. Where was she last night? I'm starting to get I don't know. I was at

to dinner with you. But she grew up in a small town outside of Waco, Texas and really in the shadow of Fort Hood, UM, the US military base where they do a lot of training and also UM experimenting with different equipment, some of it flying apparatus apparati or is it just apparatus? And sometimes it would you would see crazy stuff in the sky and sometimes and Emily grew up kind of almost on like a farm, UM, the US military would just touched down like in the

middle of like a crop field. And uh, but my my feeling in this situation is that, uh, Texas, this is probably some type of military aircraft and not an actual alien spaceship. And I think it should be clear that UFO is an unidentified flying object. Baker is not saying it was aliens. He was just saying something weird was in the sky. Und can I ask you this question? I mean, this is that's That's just the great thing I think that they've come up with, is we blame

now we just suggest it's military operations which are innately covert. UM. If you for me and I you know, I am anti at this point, after what our country has been through, I'm not digging into insane stuff, but I would say this, like, I am curious as to where our military got some of the incredible technology that is not used in common

day UM practices. UM. There are interesting reports, and there are actually like ex military from the forties and fifties who are like, I'm nine, comm assassinate me if you'd wish. But I do have some things to share and I have secrets. So I think the umbrella of the military is one that allows us to quickly explain things away. But that's a talk for another time. I think they obviously saw something weird or ate something weird at the

at dinner. Save it for the Heat and Light podcast, you know, definitely, I um, yeah, I think two things can be true. That there is some legitimate UM investigations and proof lately about you know, life um outside of this earth that that's worth investigating, And that this thing they saw in the sky is you know, probably easy, easily explainable that this one example, you know, just because

you saw something. I see things in the sky all the time, you know, is there there's probably an explanation you know, right to that SENTI an alien life form, uh in this solar system beyond us? Well, what does sense you mean like like kind of like kind of beings in the solar system? Is I would say I think that there's not it's unknown, but there's not a

lot to suggest that UM as proof. But I would say this, what would be more American and megalomaniac to think that we're the only people amongst the billions of clusters and planets and stars and undiscovered corners of a universe that we only know half of one billion percent about. I mean that we're the only Hey look at us, and we've figured it out by the way, let's I mean, we've figured it out here in America. We are often well, but also we're doing we're also doing awesome, Like we're

doing a bang up job. This are gonna give me in great shape a long time. And everyone's happy. Is like Mars is like you've landed on our planet. He said, No, how was a little surprised there, he said, No, Basically, that's what I do think there is you know, our solar system. I think is is that's a that's a small little space. And what happened over in Roswell forty seven, that's a question for another day. All right, Sure, what happened in Waco, that's a question for another day. Lots

of you suspect areas you're I'm with you. By the way, there's been at Baylor. That was a disaster. To remember that, you know, the bailor. That was an ugly time in Baylor's history. But it doesn't it's not the full picture of the university. All right now, I'm defending back. I forgot I forgot your connection to I just meant that part of the world's had a lot of crazy. No, there's probably some really nice like science students doing nice

experiments there too, so it's there a lot of good happenings. UM. Today's show is a good one. We have Mike Tannenbaum, former NFL general manager, and now he is doing his thing on the media side of things. In fact, he just UM he launched UH website recently, the third Team, the thirty third Team, So make sure you check that out. He's gonna join us. We're gonna catch up with him and talk about what's going on in our league. UM, and we're gonna do some quarterback talk. It's a good show.

But before we get into talking about some quarterbacks in limbo and and UM. An article I wrote on nfl dot com this this week, would you would you guys check out this Ravens overtime proposal? I find it wild. Yeah, so, UM this I'm reading off a p FT report UM per multiple sources with knowledge of the situation. The Ravens will be proposing a pair of overtime procedures premised on the concept of spot and choose one team. There's a

still coin flip. The team that wins the coin flip has the option or has the opportunity to spot the ball. So they could say anywhere on the field UM, and then the other team that loses the coin to us gets the chance to say, Okay, we'll take the ball from that spot that you've set or will defend UH from that spot, and I guess it takes away the chance on some level and makes it a choice for the two teams, and it would eliminate UM the UH. It would become sudden death again, it would return revert

to sudden death, but lessening the impact of the coin toss. Greg, what are your thoughts about this? I think it's fascinating. I'm all for UH innovative thinking. It makes me think there's not much chance of it actually passing because you know, they didn't do the fourth and fifteen idea that they've talked about UH instead of on site kicks. This to

me is similar. I think you can also choose okay, I'll take the ball, and then if you win the coin toss, and then the other teams like, okay, you get it at the five or what you know, I'm not sure what the order is, UH. You know, the order is the team that wins the coin toss sets the one when you put the put them at their at their own one. Yard line every time. If that then you go. You then give the other team the choice of what the yardage that the winning coin toss

team chose. So the fact that there's two proposals that are similar ish um in. The Patriots apparently support another version of this where you UH play it for seven and a half minutes no matter what, and the Ravens have one that it would be sudden death. UH strikes me that the chances they're already not aligned even the which way to do this, that it's gonna be tough to get a consensus. But I love it. I think

it would give the analytics department something to do. I would not be trusted Andy Reid to just be making up his mind on the spot. I mean, you got these guys can't even you know, no one to take a time out at the end of the half. So you better like have your plan of what you're gonna do coming into the game. Uh if you hit the overtime, but it's fine, let's add some strategy. There's not that

many overtimes anyway, so let's play around with him. I do I think John Harbor is very aggressive with his UH this time of year, with the Ravens always seem to come up with stuff like this. It um. The analytics community will go nuts and think about this when NFL twitter um discovers a team that hasn't really dipped into analytics and they're taking the ball at like their own at their own forty or something, and everyone's going

absolutely nuts. There's gonna be a lot of weigh ins and a lot of opinions, and that is good and bad. But I think it's a spicy rule. I approve. What if you have the Rams defense from a year ago and you're playing a mediocre offense and you're like, we'll we'll say the thirty one. Let's not even make an

even number thirty one. Uh, you guys can take the ball that you know, take the ball Bengals with Brandon Allen, you get it first because we think we're gonna stop you, and then all we gotta do is kick a field goal to win. I mean there is a lot of fund strategy that would come from Yeah, I mean you mentioned the forty mark. I think that's a no brainer.

But then once you start to tick backwards and you get to around the thirty, if your offense isn't that good, Uh, you're gonna probably think twice about am I gonna be able to march the sixty yards or whatever to get into scoring range? According to that I don't know where this comes from, but according to the uh Florio post on p FT, and I'll use I'll quote it, it's believed that the break even point would be the thirteen

yard line. For the fourteen or beyond, the team choosing offense or defense will be more likely to take the ball. For the twelve or closer, the team choosing offense or defense will be more likely to opt to defend. I mean, a lot of factors beyond that would make I don't know where he gets that, but uh, I guess it kind of I could see playing out that way, but I don't know the Belichick angle of it. Greg, So

that's the other proposal. Does that mean that it would be a ten minute overtime and then Belichick saying there would be another seven and a half minutes. Now he's saying just make it. No, he's saying, there's uh regular seven and a half minute overtime period, so not even ten. You bump it down to and a half minutes. And whoever is leading at the end of that wins. You know, no sudden death component at all, no side in death.

But in theory, if you know, it would give the second team a chance, perhaps, uh to to go back and score to match it. That would be that would be fun. I'm all for shorter over times either, I don't need a long one. Interesting alright, good stuff, all right, let's yeah, let's talk a little quarterbacks before we get

Mr T on the phone here. Uh, Like I said, wrote a piece on NFL dot Com and I was looking through I did the same exercise last year, and I feel like it didn't always used to be this way, but things have been a little funky, uh in the last a couple of years in the NFL, where a really high number of quarterbacks are in a little bit of limbo this time of year. And I counted fifteen guys um right now, and I have is like like last year, the big domino is Tom Brady and everything

was about Brady and wherever he landed. Then you started to figure out the rest of the pieces. This year, it's it kind of is DeShawn Watson. But because the way the Texans have handled this and they purposefully, uh, they're either you know, have their head in the stand and I'm not gonna trade this quarterback no matter what he's saying or the message he is sending, or they're just deciding to keep it murky and do it on

their own timetable. It kind of puts all these teams in a really tough position about how long do you wait if it happens, if they if they're not gonna pull a trigger on a deal before the draft, you can't like be passing on quarterbacks in the draft on the hope that Deshaun Watson comes available. So it's kind of a strange situation. But he's just like the first guy.

And I'll use it one example from this list, and I'd like to hear you guys quarterback that jumps out to you when you break down kind of where their paths can can ride. So Jimmy Garoppolo for the forty Niners as an example. I think the best case scenario for Jimmy g is that the forty Niners, they do their homework, they study all their options here. Uh, they

kicked the tires Undershaun Watson. They look at the UM veterans out there, Uh, they check the draft class, and they say, you know what, we got this guy in our house. Let's give him one more try, and and then Kyle Shanahan says, all right, he's our guy. Lets the media know that there's no drama, and he gets

he gets his shot. The worst case scenario, obviously, is they get a quarterback from an outside source and Garoppolo gets put in this situation where his career goes from this perfect landing spot with San Francisco with great coaching and great personnel and just get sent to who knows where and just barely trying to hang on to a starting job. In best case scenario and some type of camp battle um and then I think the most likely scenario is and this, And let me know if you agree.

I do think he's their quarterback in despite all the smoke out there, I, if I had to guess, I don't see the same desperation with John Lynch and Kyle Shannon, at least outwardly that we saw with the Rams and Jared Goth and I think it points the most likely him getting a do or die fifth season in San Francisco. I agree with that because I think they know they're in a in a flexible position for for Deshaun Watson.

They are in the best position, in my mind of any team in terms of being able to wait it out. They are not in the best position of having the draft assets like the Jets or or some other teams because Number one, Jimmy G. People think that Jimmy G contract, he's not making that much money. He's sort of at almost the minimum of what franchise quarterbacks are right now, which is like millions. You don't want to be paying

Jimmy G. That he stinks, but there's no guarantees. The bigger thing is you can trade him, you can cut him, you can do anything with no cap hit whatsoever, anytime you want. You can do it in August, you can do it in May. So they are in a unique position to wait out. They also know there might be a market for Jimmy G. I think the Patriots would gladly take on that quarterback contract, depending on where they're

at at that point in the off season. But I also think they look at what's around there and out there, and they don't see anyone better than Jimmy G. So they can just sort of hang tight. So I think you know they're like, I do you know I think that in general, like kid to buy the idea that yeah we have faith in him, Yeah we want to bring him back. Um, there's whispers that they are interested in Kirk Cousins. There was whispers last year about Tom Brady.

It's like, I think their thing is this, like the Deshaun Watson thing is a real possibility if they had a chance, because I think it's like, you don't do this to Jimmy G. And you don't do it after everything you've said, unless you have a chance to get a franchise altering type quarter back that no fan of the forty Niners would disagree with that scenario. I mean, for me, the Jimmy G thing, the experience has been

rocked a little bit by his durability. Like I just we've seen two seasons of Kyle Shanahan and San Francisco totally sideswiped by him being out of the lineup. And when he's been in the lineup, I don't think he's nearly as good as that five game introduction he had when we were all writing amazing think pieces because he looked like the next big thing. He's not been that guy ever since. Alright, throw out another name there. I don't even care if it's on my list, but I

bet he is. They want they won some playoff games. Poor Jimmy j You know you bowl? Go ahead, Mark,

how about how about your guys? Sam Donald? I think it's a very interesting case because you know, Sam Donald for someone that's essentially sort of struggled but shown great moments a little moments too that I think it kept the people that, um, we're fascinated with Sam Donald when he came out of usc um alive and in hope that he could restore his career, and you'd have to look at the Jets and say, yes, he was put in a terrible situation. So I'll start with the worst

case scenario. I think that that is, Um, you know, they have the chance to get to Sean or they just go take Zach Wilson at number two and Donald's very brief, Um, but how did New York career comes to it? And he's shift maybe he shift to a team like the Bears and they don't have their act together. And then by he's hosting like inside USC on Channel ninety seven here in Los Angeles and he's out of the NFL. It's like you're just out, like maybe you

run out of answers and there's too many. I was gonna say that, well, you know, it's it's ardly still in the league. I was like, does that does Barkley have that? I was like, no, Barkley is actually outlasting Sanchez quiet. It's kind of how many you can see quarterbacks wind up just on television. So I think that'd be the worst case because it would make me Sidner best case for me, and I think this is the

thing I could see this in Dan. You kind of suggested this, and I don't know if they're wedded to the concept of this. It's a little risky if they pass up on someone who becomes great out of the draft. You keep Donald, You've got this amazing chance to build around them for the first time. And I also do think that with Mike Laflour coming in and running an offense that quarterbacks have thrived in, it's a current Kyle Shanahan type offense, you might get the version of Sam

Donald that we've all waited for. I mean, it's just been someone who's been in a terribly unfair situation. That's your best case. What do I think will happen. I think they'll they'll just be too compelled to move on because almost like because there's too much, there's too many intriguing options in the hype on Zack Wilson and the chance for DeShawn Watson. It's just too juicy. And I think because you can get something back for Sam Donald and sell it as we're giving him a new opportunity

to that the divorce feels imminent. But it makes me feel a little bit sad for old school Jets fans because I do think he can go on and succeed elsewhere. And if anything went wrong with what New York's behind number door number two scenario was, and Donald went somewhere else and let another team to the playoffs, oh boy, so I I mean that is somewhere good. That's the Jets worst case scenario. But you know what if and I think they're gonna take Zack Wilson, there's a lot

of breadcrumbs out there. You look and move the sticks where he's mocking him, and you kind of connect some dots there. Um, if that guy can play, it doesn't really matter unless Sab Donald becomes Joe Montana. I think Jets sounds are gonna be okay with it, but you're right, um, that there is a worst case scenario. And then any team that's any fan that's a fan of a tortured fan base or a part of the tortured fan base always imagines the worst guest scenario that Donald becomes the

real deal. But like, ultimately, I think what what Greg has been pounding the table about is like it's it's it checks out. It's like Donald did have three years. I know it was in a bad situation, but he had opportunities to to put more out there. And it's just it's ultimately, I think, especially for a new regime with solid there and Douglas having total control, it's a little bit too much of a leap of faith to

believe in Donald still. And that's why I think they really should kind of reset things, um, if they truly do love Zach Wilson or or another quarterback. So it I mean, it's funny because the Bears are the worst case scenario for everyone. Sorry, Although the Patriots are are pretty close right now, you would think they'd figure out how to make it better around them, But last year

it was a pretty pretty bad worst case scenario. I I kind of think though, that it's more likely he'll be there with Um a Zach Wilson type, which feels messy, but I think would be the right move unless you get uh significant return. I don't know who's given up a second round pick for Sam Donald. Are they gonna trade them for a third? Maybe maybe they would. I share everything you hear, Greg is that people like there are people that like Donald much more than you did

it though, Okay, maybe it's the Bears. But I just don't know, Like where are the teams that are giving up high draft picks for quarterbacks? Like name it, name them? I don't know who like Denver? What about the Broncos and Bears? The pageants in Denver are kind of the three that stand out? And yeah, Denver maybe and maybe it's a third or maybe it's And you're right, Texans, I mean the forty nine would be a best case scenario.

I feel like if they got you know, four Donald, um, where you you really do get a chance to to remake your career. I I if I was the Jets, I'd feel like I can't ever find a quarterback. I'd rather have two on my roster. Everyone's so worried about, you know, if you're really strong in your organization and what you're gonna do. Uh, let's see them both. Let's see them both. Oh, that would be terrible. We have

two quarterbacks. Were like, oh, my gosh, that would be terrible. Like, if all you're getting back is a third round pick, be confident enough that you can handle the media and the clowns and the fans. And let's see what Darnald looks like with because we never know. Maybe this Wilson guys not gonna look as good as we think. Or let's see a playoffs. You are positing a scenario here that hasn't really been floated though, Greg, you're because we're

not and nobody really knows, but we haven't been hearing. Oh, the Jets, the most they can get for Sam Donald is a third round pick. Like, if that's the case, it does become he's on the team. And we keep hearing from Jets reporters they're asking for a second and so the fact that they're starting at a second it indicates to me, maybe not that no one's offered it

to him. I don't feel or it's the Sam Bradford thing, and you trade him in September when someone else's knee shatters and you get him at max value, which would be cunning after what will be that It will be messy to have them both there with the New York tabloids exploding and going nuts day after day. Well, he also could be a nice piece on draft day to make some moves there too. Hey, let's move up for another top pick, uh and use Donald to do that?

That that could be possible. Yeah, I hate little Darnald. Come on right, relax, calm down, little little peek behind the curtain. I've Dan you know, we we've got Tannenbaum. I think he's waiting, like, have we totally finished this QB segment we have now coming up? It's the off season. It's like it's I know, this is the type of thing that stresses Dan out a little bit. We can visit. This is a cucumber here. We're good. Um, do we have Mike town about Steven Manny filling in for Tam posting?

If we do, let's let's bring him on there. He is wow friendly. So I'm sorry I was a couple of minutes late. You know what Italian what a friendly cribble is for this podcast. What can I do? I know so Greg is from Wilbraham, Massachusetts. The whole of the original friendlies. I feel like, Mike, you've been out of the show before, and I remember that nugget from last time as well. Uh, Mike Tannebaum, you know him. He's ESPN's NFL Front Office Insider, which is a nice title.

Good job by Mike there. And of course the former GM and the Jets uh e v p um with the Miami Dolphins. He has a new gig, the thirty third Team. Want to get to that a little bit later, Mike. Um. But you know, as a former GM, I just want to start, Mike and ask you about this, the Shawn Watson situation, because we've had a conversation on this podcast, UM about like, what is too much for Deshaun Watson? Is there a price that's too high for a guy

like him? And as a former GM, do you think that they're front office a decision and makers that are kind of spooked by this whole thing because you could be in a position where you give up the farm to get this quarterback and then it might end up getting you fired. By the third year of Watson on the new team because you weren't able to stock the cupboard around him. A bit of a dicey situation for GM. Yeah,

that's a simple question, complicated answer. Great to be with you, guys, And the short answer is no, there's not too much UP. I've offered my daughter who by the way, it is totally not salary cap for upis so there's actually a little bit I was ran pasted another segment I offered like the chicag the Sears Tower, and in all serieses have one of the five best players whose high character leader under contract years old. He checks every box. You

can give up five first round picks. When you study the history of our game and the best of the best, the ron Wolfs of the world. On average, it's about fifty eight or fifty nine percent successory on first rounders, and of course that depends if you're in the top five or the POTD five. But the other thing, guys, what we just learned from Tom Brady, what an unbelievable association he created. People walk to Tampa Bay to play

with Tom. The same thing is gonna happen. And with the cap going down this year, guys, and so many good football players are gonna get sweet. Just because you don't have first round picks doesn't mean you won't be able to acquire good players. And players are gonna want to play with Deshaun Watson. So it's an unexpected opportunity. I spent a couple of decades of my life trying

to find players like DeShawn Watson. If you could ever get one, like and I said this, and I mean it, guys, if Nickcessary were calling me, I would not get off the phone. It was like when I was closing out the Brett Farve trade at the Jets and I felt like there was finally a deal be had. We could get him over Tampa Bay. Like I was not laying those dudes off the phone, Like this is an opportunity

that hardly ever comes around. And maybe, and I'm saying this, maybe maybe Jacksonville straight up for Trevor Lawrence would be the one situation I wouldn't do it for. But beyond that one, go get him and you could figure out everything else. But my question for you, I mean, if you are Nick Kissario and you waited so long to get this opportunity, I mean almost overly patient. He was

in New England with offers and interests for years. You land in Houston and you've really been air dropped into a the as thorny a situation as I can think of GM having to deal with in so long the Jackie easter Be business that Kel McNair, that just seems to be a bit of a culture war going on inside the building. Yes, he could get a lot in return, but you'll always be the GM that came in. And soon after J. J. Watts out the door, Deshaun Watson's

out the door. You're hoping the guy you get to replace him at quarterback would be uh, you know, the equal or better. But do you think he feels behind the scenes, like what the heck have I done here? Did I land in the middle of like an NFL war zone? So there's one guy that can fix this situation. It's cal McNair. And something obviously happened here, guys, because Deshaun Watson signed the contract after d dere Hapkins was traded, and that's really important to the context, is really important.

So the most important person this franchise isn't Jackie uster Be, isn't David Culi, isn't Nickossaro, it's the shal Watson. That's why he's getting paid thirty nine million a year. So if I'm kil McNair, I am solving the problem. I am flying to wherever he wants me to fly to. I am taking my yellow pad out and I'm asking question after question of not what happened, but why it happened, and we're gonna stand shoulder shoulder and fix it. And if I'm kilm msnar, I'm taking Nick Cassaro with me.

And if it means we'll be on from everybody else in the building, I don't care, because de Sean, You're going to be here. And what's interesting is for Nick, he's earned this opportunity. He's a hard worker, he's a good person, but he is in a tough position. I will say this, I just don't imagine there's a scenario white where they would trade him because there's some other tremendous intangibles, which is put yourself in Nikos Saro issues like what do you stand for? So you hit a

bump of the road. The players upset. We know that, but when you sign a contract, it also means something like you just can't indiscriminately walk away from that. And if you're Nick and you let's say, get three ones and Quentin Williams or whatever, the challenge you're gonna have is there will be some other bump in the road

at some point. When you have ninety players, ninety contracts, ninety agents, ninety egos, it never just goes smooth, right, And if you do that in the first couple of months of your administration, you have zero chance to build anything sustainable because everyone else is going to run the same play that Deshaun Watson did. So there is some real,

big picture, compelling sort of dynamics here. And if I was Nick, what I would simply say, and I tried this with Rex Ryan Woody Johnson when we had a big hold out with Darrelle Revis is we have to stand shoulders shoulder. And if I'm Nick Assaria, I'm saying, as guys, no matter what, we aren't even talking about training him until February. And maybe the new legacy of the a f C South is this, we're great quarterbacks going to retire. Because if Shawn Watson rather retire here,

we should honor him and celebrate that. But we can't trade him because we trade him, we stand for nothing. M M, well, that that's sort of how he's playing it right now. It seems like I mean that he's not picking up the phone. I am curious, like you know, as a GM. And by the way, I appreciated the fribol reference, you know, the friendlies reference. If your body was somewhat indifferent, I gotta tell you, Like now there, by the way, didn't you were any water? There was

scooped right past it. I was ready. I was ready to talk. You know that was you You got out of a shift that friendly is your your hands were dirty at the end. I started as a dishwasher, work my way up. It's like like the Kanye song right there. Um, but you you're you're a forward GM, Like how do you use the media in this way? Because like that is like I'm curious as someone who went through it, like gms do use the media. Never talked about like

how they use the media. But it's it's getting out there in a way that like Cassio is not picking up the phone. So to me, that feels like a message that they're sending like that that is the message they want out there publicly right now is like we're not even entertaining it right now. Yeah, there's probably a

lot of different feelings going through Nick. Like I know in my situation, you know, publicly, I was like trying to be as smooth as I could, like, hey, you know, we have all the respect in the world for the player and say all the sort of like classic sound bites. But I had a massive pit in my stomach because I knew, like at the Jets that you know, we had a great team, and I didn't want to be the one guy to sent a song by not getting

the deal done. And Nick, you know, you don't get these jobs without being uber competitive and wanting to win it. I'm sure, deep down you know, if you would just open up, nickis Sarah and terrorm in half like, I'm sure he's having a lot of sleepless nights and you could, you know, it's interesting. I'm not so sure he's leaking that to the media because right his audience really is cal McNair and David Culley like, and then from there

it's obviously the locker room. I think the other interesting dynamic guys that again, there's so many layers to unpacked here, but think about like you're trying to build like David Cully sixty five years old. He probably gets an opportunity lifetime. How are you going to be able to attract a player to sign there until this is resulting? How you gonna convince Will Fuller like to come back to play

for a J. Mccaren. So this really is and I've said this before, which is if they are going to trade them, they really need to do it a S A P. As other quarterbacks or other situations get solidified, it just makes their market smaller and smaller. So their worst case scenario is that they get to September October

and this still isn't resolved. M Yeah, And I would think of one move that a J. Mccaren can do is to impress Will Fuller take the shirt off and show that wild tattoo situation all over all over his Torso just that's me just a bit balling. Um, Hey, your colleague, Your colleague Diana Rassini Mike texted or tweeted yesterday, just texted with an NFL head coach about the upcoming cuts and what he expects. Here's the quote. It's gonna

be a massacre next week all around the league. Does this feel to you Mike or missed the t as Fransasa used to call you, Does this feel like a perfect storm type scenario for smart teams that have some salary cap wiggle room right now? Yeah, I think teams

are gonna be reward for being paid. You know, it's interesting to look at the JJ wat deal and when you really think about it, I think J J. Walk had a great deal for him just from the standpoint when you think about his age, his injury history, and in ten days, if the four of us were having this conversation, we would be saying, like, I can't believe that player extra player wise out there. And I think it's a great point, which is there will be some

really opportunistic signs. And I think if we look at the two Super Bowl teams, you're see players like the Daniel Sorenson's of the world, Sandy Watkins, and then with Tampa Bay after Godwin, Lavante, David and Shack Barrett. You know a lot of those players, I don't think they're gonna do like in Dominican sus a free agent. Obviously, Antonio Brown and Crown probably go back there at cheap prices. But I think a lot of good players will be

available in the coming weeks. Mhm. I would love to ask you this because this is hot on my radar. You know, we learned a lot during a pandemic written off season last year that maybe we don't need everything that the NFL throws at us during the off season, the forty billion ot as. And for me, it's the preseason because you're a GM. Well, no, I would just say that you you wouldn't, You'd probably I would imagine come from the angle, like I know people think the

preseason is unenjoyable, but here's why we need it. But do we need as much of it? And do you feel like the way that they came to um, you know, decisions and cuts last year for you, is is it something that you'd say less is more in this situation or do we go old school and bring it all back? The Snoopy Bowl, the Hall of Fame Game, the whole thing, the Snoopy Bowl. You got our asks kicked a lot

of those Snoopy Bowls, like very competitive. I remember who Rex calling out Tom Coughlin like really, like do we have to put right now? It's August. It's like we got a lot. There's a lot of times for you to be aggrieved. There's a lot of times for you to be belligerent, like is it really with Tom Over like the third preseason game, like do we have to

go there? We're taking Jerry Reese's hands and just shaking my head, you know, like come on, man, Like anyway, Um, I think as many things in life, it's gonna be probably somewhere in the middle. You know, when you speak to people around the league, there are efficiencies with Zoom and some offseason in terms of like installs, like conversation we're having here now. I think some of these are

gonna be here to stay. So here's the big challenge though, which is and this goes back years ago with my ESPN colleague Jeff Saturday, which is when Jeff came out. He was a developmental offensive line him and he was a very prominent person in the Union, and some of the rules that they agreed to with having reductions massive reductions in the off season hurt players like Jeff Saturday from developing. And here's really the ultimate conundrum. J C.

Trieder is financially set. He doesn't need the off season program, and they're gonna push for a we don't need it. Look at the great product on the field, but what about all the younger players that desperately need it? And and that's why this is not a one size fits all sport, because those younger players need it to make it. The veterans don't want to do it anymore because they

really just work out on their own. And that's why I think you're gonna see something in the middle where maybe it's not nine weeks anymore, maybe it's five or six and maybe expandatory based on you know, years of service um And I think there's some compromises in there. And in terms of the preseason games, I think what we're just going to see is, you know that to a regular season game with obviously it sounds like we're

on the precipice of a seventeen game regular season. I don't like the preseason the way we have it now because anytime you're in a situation where you're just trying to survive and not get hurt, not accomplishing anything. And so many teams are going to those joint practices, and all the coaches I've been with, they like those better because you can script competition where hey, let's have you know, good against good in the red zone or one on one or pass rush, and you can evaluate and good

get good work. Without Again, there's always gonna be risk of injuries, but you could sort of like minimize that. So that's why I think we're gonna see tweaking into the system. But I don't think it's gonna be all one way or the other. How you feel about that, mark, Is that an answer that makes you feel better about the future. Now that's a reduction I think right down the middle, and some changes makes sense. And uh, you know, if Mike t is saying that's the case, then I'm

gonna ride with that because that's how it works. Are you Are you proud or embarrassed um that you're the only general manager that's ever come up to us at the owners meeting and admitted you listen to our show that that's a burning I'm proud of me, Okay, you I mean, I can't be the only one, but you know, maybe I'm the only one that is. You know, I don't smartly dumb enough to admit it. So you guys heard I'm getting out Mike tell us about this thirty

team venture. So I totally stumbled into something guys that I'm very excited about, very proud of. When I got the position at ESPN, it was very soon after leaving the Dolphins and big transition, and I got it was a real privilege to replace Bill Pollium so as Greg and his you know, knowing the western Massachusetts geography, drove from Bristol, Connecticut to you mass Amherst, where I've done

a lot with the Sports Manager program. I hired some really smart rat students to help me create a database because I was doing the draft for ESPN Radio and it went so well that the program decided to have a bunch of students work for me and they got credit. And what I quickly realized was there's a number of head coaches and gms that are between opportunities that want to stay current. So I started this weekly zoom call

and we're up to fifty people and it's incredible. Like two weeks ago, we had Wade Phillips breaking down Todd Bowles's game plan. Yesterday we had Eric Vanini talking about like the corners in the draft, we do game management, cap um, draft character versus ability, And really what I found is a lot of these coaches like Dan Quinn's great example, Dan was on and a couple of the grad students did a bunch of research projects for him that he wanted to work on, and we put out

a free news letter Team dot com completely free. And I really what it energizes me about it is there's a lot of young men and women that want to get involved with football that are doing volunteer research projects. And then there's coaches that are you know Mark Trustman, who's coach, Steve Young and Joe Montana, you know, breaking down justin Herbert compared to to and through the magic of zoom. It's you know, it's working. It's been great.

And I feel like for me, like I get better as a broadcaster and get just great information, and if I can help other young people get to where they want to go, then that's even better. I would tell you one quick thing that, like, when I was a senior in college and my dream was to work for the Cleveland Browns. This is back in that two like months before I graduated, they announced that they were moving to Baltimore and became like the arch enemies of the Browns.

I thought, well, hey, that's bad, but be I was left with no career path, and my first job was UM at Columbia Library, putting metal strips into library books for like eight fifty an hour with my parents wondering what on earth have we done with this person? So I wish this existed back then. I would have been a hardcore member of the group. So that sounds great. Do you know that I worked for the Browns? Did I know? In your way? I mean I think Mark, you wanted your job. Well, I don't know, I don't

know what the you know? The thirty third team guys feel like, I think you have to open up your mind to working for more than just one team. You can't just be like, I'm a Browns fan, I'm only working for the Browns. Screw you the other rest of the I was a child back then, Greg, I mean, it wasn't it wasn't, you know, not the full right exactly. I want you guys to do a little research project on GMS. This is I have a quick bone to pick.

I know, we gotta let you go. But it's like of like GM is always evaluating free agents based on their college draft profiles. I feel like they do that all the time. It doesn't make any sense. You have four years of the NFL to to evaluate it on. But maybe someone's gonna be like, well, like that Sam Donald guy, we thought he was the third best player in the draft, so I'm gonna give up a good pick for him. Now, while you were wrong about that draft of value, it seems like that happens like a lot.

Am I crazy that that happens a lot in the NFL that they do it off the draft like five years later? Yeah, No, that's totally fair, Greg, and I think that's one of the challenges of working the front office is to say, hey, like, that's the beginning of the conversation. And Mitch Drobiski was picked before Deshaun Watson. That hasn't turned out the way it should. That's not to say that's the end of Mitch Drobiski's career. I mean, that could be a great opportunity for him to go

someplace else. But we can't ignore the four years of the tape that um he has. I think, and Dana Rolosky and I have had some knockdown dragouts about this. I think the Darnald conversation is so fascinating because you have to factor in are you going to exercise the fifth year option. And I don't see how a good conscience you can do that based on how much he's

turned the ball over. And then when you compare that guys to Zach Wilson, like, I don't think it's a really hard decision at all, Like how can you invest at least another million dollars? And again, remember that option is now fully guaranteed in what would be two where you have a guy like Zack Wilson who even if you felt like it was like this, which I don't think it is. I think it's Wilson and then Donald. But let's say you're sitting here like it's a coin toss.

How can you then say, like, well, now I want to go guarantee another twenty five million for Sam Donald? And that's why I think you really um when you talk about evaluating these guys. You got a factory and like where you think the economics are gonna end as well? It makes sense. That makes sense. Thirty third team dot Com The thirty third team dot Com. And before we say goodbye, Mike, I want to play. I want to

play one clip. I'm a big Jets fan. My going going way back tortured fan and I want to play this clip and then I have a question to ask you, Okay, and that's a very serious question. I want your honest answer. Can you give me that? Uh? Boy? I think? All right, here's the play first, here's the play first, Stephen did it? Poor guy? And when he comes round and give him the big last week, the long game winner. All right,

it's January two ten and af C Championship games. Steelers up twenty four nineteen over your Jets, you're the GM. There's it's third and six, two minutes to play, Ben to a b first down game over Now. As a Jets been, I've always thought, if the d can get off the field there, the Jets get it done. Did the Jets complete the comeback with Mark Sanchez? If they just get off the field and third and six, one hundred and fifty percent, there's no down in my mind,

no doubt my mind. It was all going the wave. It was a momentum wave. Yeah, I'll take you more. You're killing me. Go back to the first third down that game. They call hands to the face on Cromarty fifty yards away from the freaking play had nothing to do with it, and we're off the field. It's a three and out and they scoring that drive. And at some point I'll get over it, like, look, I'm not well justed, you know, like Tony Corinthy is a great official.

The guy is a cancer survivor. Like he's a great official. But that poor guy in the two thousand nine championship game, we're going out for the coin toss, they says, New York Giants Indianapolis polts, No, we're the New York halfain Jets, Tony, and then so uh uh uh st almos and and like very nice, congratulate, blah blah blah. And now every time I see Tony Cranny, all I think about is he called this the Giants, not the Jets. In the

two thousand ninet game. Here's like a great official, cancer survivor, great dude, and he's and I can't get over it like that ever, And you know, I'm just like, you know, the Jets have not been back to the playoffs since you were the man in charge. And when they one day get over the hump, God willing, we'll all on some levels celebrate it. Um, thank you, Mike, well, not Greg, but thank you Mike for joining us, and good luck with everything uh this season, and uh yeah, we really

enjoyed and the friendly stalk is always fun as well. Thanks, and it's okay for me admit that I continue to listen to you guys. Thank you well, well have you the show now? So yeah, have you out of the future And then like pull another painful scab right at the end of the end of the interview. At that time there he goes, all right, that's that's a good man. We like Mike Tnavan, he's certified friend of the show. And we played du Lane grad by the way, it

didn't even get to that. We have all sorts of connections. We played the f it's it's just it's a possible, It's possible, great Tannenbaum. I like that UM played the clip the you know, the audio audience isn't here that I didn't see it, but we played the clip of that third and six and that was now hell eleven years ago, and Ben escapes right from Sean Ellis and the Jets pass rush. Uh, scrambles to his right and then hits a young Antonio Brown. Like as I watched

that clip. First of all, Ben looks about pounds later and he's moves, he can move, and it did make me think on the day that we learned that the Steelers and and Big Ben came uh to agreement on a deal and he will be back in Pittsburgh officially. Um, that is a done deal. Um. But he's not that guy anymore. So the Steelers just need to have a backup plan and I hope they do and then listen. Uh.

Smart organizations ultimately make smart decisions. And I do think bringing Big Big Ben back it had there's some logic to it, but only if you upgrade what's behind him and in front of him, the offensive line. It's true. I think Ben's mobility was always an underrated part of his game because it's not like he was like running for first downs. Uh. And of course he was known for,

you know, being very tough to take down. But he also, like like a Brady, was very good at like the subtle sort of pocket movement and moving up, moving back, moving down and just keeping those plays going. And that ain't that's not happening anymore. I don't think that part

is coming back from him. He was as frustrating a quarterback if you were the opposing team to deal with that that was around it in there were moment that I'm not saying I'm not comparing him to this player, but he had little Elway esque traits to him where you just thought on third and eighteen, this guy is about to be taken down. He's got three players on him. Bang, he's escaped. He completes the pastor hines ward super annoying. I will say this, like, I really do have respect

for the player. I do. I do, I do. That's always a bad sign. When when Cassario started calling Deshaun Watson the player or cal mcnarrative, they were like, it's not a bad sign from me. I don't think. But here's the thing. I invite the Steelers um to roll out the same offense that we saw over the past two months of the season. Let's see if you can make that work next year. I mean, there's a he's not coming back to the Steelers team of a couple of years ago. That's just wait knocking on the door

of the super Bowl. It's a very challenging final year scenario. We'll see. I'm with you. It's funny because you've been based on YouTube jokers. Just how I wouldn't say that, but they've got I want to see what they do in the offseason because they have a lot of work to do. But you take that offense, you subtract three starting offensive lineman, you substract juju Uh James Conner. Not that that's a huge lot. There's a lot going on.

It's funny because you've been getting on me for being anti Bend and yet I really think of myself as like, I think he's one of the great I think he's under it, like for the first tenure until I don't think there's like nearly as big a gap, for instance, between him and Drew Brees in germs of just like

who was a better player throughout their career. I give Breeze the edge, but I don't think it's huge like I think he was basically if you consider them in the same era, a solid like number three behind Brady and Breeze, and it is an easy Hall of Famer. I don't know what. It's not even left for him to prove. It's just like, I think this could be an unpleasant final chapter now. And he kept this stat's roight down for a while because of the way they

ran their offense. But he was like so efficient. So yeah, I mean, I'm certainly not saying that he's gonna light

it up next year. I think they need to just be smarter about you can't run out Dwayne Haskins and if if things go sideways with Ben or if he gets hurt, you know, you got to do better than Mason Rudolph Um speaking of you mentioned Drew Brees and just circling back before we say goodbye to our conversation before Mr T, I have Jameis Winston on my list of fifteen quarterbacks in a bit of limbo here, and you know, for that, I had best case scenario that

because rap Sheet reported on Super Bowl Sunday that he was in the driver's seat, Winston was for the same starting job. Uh. The wide assumption was that Drew Brees was retiring, But then there was a report or the deo that came out last week with Breeze and his personal trainer and he's setting personal records in sled pushing and he still hasn't announced that he's retiring and listen, but by the time this podcast comes out, maybe he drops a press release. But like it's becoming increasingly I

don't know possible that Breeze actually does return. I know that he did rework his contract in a way that makes it seem like retirement is still imminent, but he still has to come to that decision as an athlete that I'm done, and I just wonder if the organization

gives him the path and is okay with it. If Drew Brees actually does retire, that's the case, that would be really bad news for you, Greg, because you have so much invested in Jamis Winston, and the worst case scenario for Winston is that Breeze doesn't retire and Winston either has to decide to play an understudy again and hope he gets an opportunity, or he hits the open market goes elsewhere, which would be add news for Jameis Winston because he's in a perfect spot to reboot his career.

He kind of needs Drew Brees to kiss off right now, and the longer it goes that he doesn't, I'm sure it's a source of anxiety. Bro I could be shocked if Breeze comes back, based on the fact that he signed this contract that kind of reduced his cap figure and his his salary right now to make it easier. So you're right, he is stretching it out a little bit and just retire, Like, what's what's the delay then,

and why is he working out so vigorously? You're probably you're probably right that there's there's some second thoughts or third thoughts. I mean, yeah, the worst case scenario for Jamis is probably Chicago or being a backup somewhere Chicago. A similar a similar scenario that's pretty bad is returning to New Orleans and oh he pulls the okay doke and there's Taysom Hill starting that quarterback for week one again, and like you just you just sit there behind him.

I I would be intrigue to see him on the Patriots. Um, that would be intriguing. I think, who jameis Winston? But I but I recognized ridiculous. I recognized that for my overly ambitious rankings, which I now regret, I was like, I would just knock all those quarterbacks down ten of fifteen spots. Um, like Boston radio to that. Someone told me that they did like an hour on w e I, which I appreciate. All press is good pressed of just like making fun of how high high I had Cam

Newton ranked. So that's really, I don't know if that's true. Interesting, Well, Stephen Manny filling in again for Erica tamp Posey. And by the way, Stephen Manny is our metrics Vengali here at NFL Media. He knows where the bodies are buried and it makes them very dangerous. So be on the right side of Stephen Manny, is all I'm saying. How

you doing, Bunny, I'm doing all right. You know, I don't know about dangerous, but you know, every now and then I get to put together a power point with like smiley faces and frowny faces for the podcast, and that's about as dangerous as it gets. I could give you a frowny face. Well, you're dangerous for the shadowy League figures because you have to give them the report that's like, hey, this around the NFL podcast does numbers.

They deserve some moolah like like, it's just in the numbers that that's that's what we're looking for from you, Stephen. I don't know if we want to let it get to your head too much, Greg, but the numbers. Numbers are the numbers, do okay. You know, it's a few shows out there and that aren't doing well. Who are they and can you share that information? And if you want to inflate if you want to, don't answer that, Steven.

If you want to inflate uh, certain numbers for the purposes of getting us paid, we will maybe give you a little taste in the back of So maybe this is stuff we should be saying offline. But yes, you know what I'm talking about, baby, It's a bribe, all right. Um. Greg was mentioning that, uh, there was some incoming fire from people up there in New England. If you could ask Erica when she gets back to see if she could track down that radio slaughter house involving Greg Rosenthal,

that would be awesome. I'm not too far away from there. We'll see what we can do. I'm in Rhode Island right now. Okay, yeah, we can over there. I know the feeling, Greg, by the way, because that happened to me, um, and I was actually in the hospital. But you know, at some point it tweeted that if Josh Gordon Um

went to the Patriots that I would drink bleach. You know, I just tweeted it out on like a Friday night some time, and then a person sure looking back, that was a suspect move but um w e I pounced on that. I don't think they had an hour long roll out, but they got on with it. So somehow I think this got exaggerated through the Twitter sphere, but they banged on it a little bit. That's good. That's

good anyway. So yeah, that that's Those are a few of the quarterbacks that you can read about their NFL dot com slash hand zeus if you want to check out the whole list, and um boys, anything else before we head on off into um the sunset for this episode. Mhmm. Anything to get off here. And I just want to say because I don't, I don't want, I don't want to get any tweets. Then it's not a believer. You know, he's a megalomaniac American or whatever that thing was. I

do think there is life beyond where we are. I think it would be foolhardy to just assume that we are the only um the life form operating at the level we operate. Now, you could get into a situation because I've watched enough Twilight Zones and this is what you gotta watch out for that we're just assuming, is

there anyone as smart as us. No, No, you gotta worry about the guys with the giant heads and the extra large brains that you actually changes the shape of their head though, the smarter beings that want to come and harvest this planet, that's what you gotta I'm totally a board, on on on board with that being a possibility as well. And I and when I used the word megalomaniac, I was not aiming at at you. I

think that's that was aimed elsewhere. Just so that's clear. Well, no, I think I didn't want to be seen as fall under that um uh banner that you had hung up, you had hoisted up. Well you're not. I like that you have the connection between like big heads mean means they're smarter because the dinosaurs, well the dinosaurs had some big heads. They were idiots. Well did you ever watch

a Twilight Zone episode? Well you you were born, But no, like when the brain is really big and certain science fiction, it actually it's like it almost is like a mushroom and it has to hold the brain that is so giant. Uh, And that's when you gotta watch out. And I just say, if you had like a massive brain and you could go anywhere would you come and hang out with like people in like Chicago or Texas or Florida. I think you'd have better places to go around the universe. I

would just demand right now. Yeah, you know, well your harvest. It's about a harvest. You clear, you till the land here? If you catch my drift right, asked these cows that have had like their inside burned out with no evidence of how that happened, that are lying in fields, Hey, maybe a cow saw some thing that we should be aware of. But that's okay. We can dig into another time. When is the heat and light reducts happening? What's going

on with that? I told you that that was a podcast you and Connor or did in what year eighteen maybe sixteen? But we were reached by someone that basically said cease. So we haven't got too hot exactly, And I can't I cannot, literally cannot say anything. I touched a third rail somewhere. Yeah, that's not untrue, not surprising. It was like easter be six years ago. Just that's why it's why Marks always had it out for him. That's a fair theory, but that's not I'm not naming names.

And we we better wrap before it gets too you know. Yes, uh yeah. We will be back on Monday with another edition of the Around the NFL Podcast. Thank you to everyone who listens. Thank you to Stephen Manny for pinch hit and doing great work as he always does. That man knows where the bodies are buried. This is Dan Hansis signing off for the Quiet Storm and the Old Boss. Yes until Monday. He's the car