49ers Big Draft Trade; Draft on the Horizon

not on Ricky, you know shee. We we have this whole setup. I like it. It looks like Mark is coming to us from another planet, which I appreciate. Well, you know, I've had a lot of UM issues in the home studio, and so I this weekend, among other things, I just blew up the home studio and I've reorganized the desk and you know all the stuff behind you that is sort of essentially just fake like that's still to come. I've I'm prepping that later. I didn't have

time to dress. It was that it was one of those interesting Mark Sessler text weekends, and they happen occasionally. UM and we love him for it. It's what makes Mark a fascinating guy that sometimes when you're not in direct contact with him, your way to communicate is he just starts firing these texts, and sometimes he's coming from a different place. Uh, like my parents are in town, for instance, and you know when your parents are in town, you're kind of in a different headspace, You're in a

kind of a bubble. And then Mark has got sending all these technology based things about the camera quality, the mic quality is showing screen grabs and like dispatches with his wife about it, and I'm just like, I love this guy, but I can't really plug in. I'll have to see him on hold on one minute here because number one, um, that shows that I'm a true professional.

I'm always thinking about our craft. But number two, I tend to like any time I've been texting Dan during this parental visit bubble that he's in, I always end the text with in parentheses. Don't worry about this now, Ken discussed later like, I'm not asking for an immediate response now, Greg, I don't know why what took you

four hours to respond to the text. You can you do have definitely make me feel guilty because while your texts indicate all you've thought about since our TV show ended Friday was the aftermath of that the second we stopped recording, and that was the last time I had thought about it, and I was planning to never think about it ever again. And I was fine with that.

I do. I even did tell Simone. I said, Dan will care um about this to some degree, and we're gonna get a response to Danna said, it is a complete wild card if Greig gives even the smallest s about this for specific issues. Yeah, you know, if you gotta you gotta know your lane. And if if you're you know, I can't things I can't control. I I don't want to get involved with all. Right, So we have a lot to get to a lot Friday right when we're taping the network show. In fact, they got

super complicated. We're supposed to start taping a ten am Pacific, a ten o four Adam Schef, the Ops, the news of a huge trade the Miami Dolphins sending the number three overall pick to the forty Niners for the twelve pick. The Niners also giving up multiple first round picks is well to move up to that spot, and then the Dolphins then traded UH the number twelve picks of the Philadelphia Eagles. UM. Just a lot of things moving around. The Dolphins finished the Friday moves with the number six

pick in this year's draft. We have to break down all of this, UM, But to start, why don't we focus on the forty Niners side of it? Because it's fascinating. We're gonna get to all the news, but we want to talk to Niners into this, and to do that, we want to connect with somebody who knows the team as well as anyone. It's Tim Kawakami of the Athletic and he just wrote a banger on Jimmy g and here he is, Timkwakami of the Athletic. Welcome to the

Around the NFL podcast him. It's great to be on, great to be good to be talking to you guys and Tim and you have to check it out on the on the Athletic a post that went up, UH

column that one this weekend. Ten thoughts about Jimmy Garoppolo's relationship with the forty Niners and why he's still QB one UH and interesting how this all shakes out because the initial thought when it happens and we're just talking about we were doing our TV show on Friday, trying to process it in real time, and it felt like when you first got the news, Oh, that's Curtains for Jimmy g Where is he gonna be in? Probably not

San Francisco. That's not the way you see it. And and Tim, can you just let the audience know a little bit about this dynamic, this relationship between Lynch, Shanahan and Garoppolo dating back to his arrival a few years back. Yeah, I mean they've been a pretty straight up with him the whole time. I mean he came in with him

actually wanting Kirk Cousins. So you have to understand that they've never really i mean, they praise him obviously had a great season twenty Nineen gets with the Super Bowl, did not have a great game and the super Bowl, but they've never, you know, said you're absolutely ideal, You're the perfect guy. After they get to the super Bowl, they take a little bit Tom Brady, They take a clue it's Tom Brady and Garoppolo understands it. I don't. I'm sure he doesn't love it. But if anybody understands

the poll of top Brady it's Jimmy Garoppolo. Uh and I've been told that he understanding listened when the Patriots drafted Jimmy Garoppoloe is right behind Tom Brady and Garoppolo was the young guy then. And the other important thing right now is for I honestly think they have a roster they can win the Super Bowl. They really do. This is you have to understand. It isn't like, oh my God, we gotta get a quarterback or else we're done.

They think with Jimmy Garopolo quarterback who has won a lot of games for them, and by the way, they've lost a lot of games when he hasn't been a quarterback, they can get back to it. But they love their roster. They're they're confident group. John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan believed they had the best team in twenty nineteen. They just couldn't make the plays in the end the Super Bowl the Chiefs end up winning. This is a group that isn't going to plan to throw away a season with

a rookie quarterback. Now, the grouper Quardyck might turn out to be the best guy. There's competition, but they're not gonna say, hey, Nick bos A coming from your A C. L Hey, Trent Williams come back when as a as a free agent, George Kittle, you know what might not work out great in because well, Ricky but done the next They're not thinking like that. They're thinking what's the

best option to win now? And they made this gigantic we obviously hmongus move to get their quarterback for after that, and if that quarterback beat out Jimmy Garoppolo at any point, they're better for it. In their opinion, competition pushing, and nobody has to love it. Creative tension, right, I mean, we've all heard about it. Garoppolo understands that. I mean,

you know I was told verily at the time. I was told very clearly over the weekend trapped in Jimmy Garoppolo was Bill Belichick saying, we got our guy to replace you, Tom. We do. Let's see you prove that you are the guy. And I guess so anyone is your book? Anyone? Another one? Anyone? Another one? And I said, if this happens with for Enners, whatever their quarterback is, they'll they'll be really really happy with that. Whatever the tension is, they'll deal with it. And Garoppolo is a

no stress guy. You've seen his interviews. He's not a guy who gets amped up, gets over worried. As a lawyer. In the locker room, they'll lay it out and maybe he'll get beat out, maybe he'll get hurt again, but they're gonna play it out with a young quarterback and Jimmy Garoppolo. I thought that I was waiting the store in the season, like, this is what you're gonna do? Do you need competition in there? I thought it's gonna

be a second help pick. I didn't your entire future draft choices for this, but I did think they were gonna get a guy if Jimmy can't make it through the season, or or if Garoppolo wasn't that good and the rookie Pizza Mount. I just it's a two timeline plan that not a lot of Jeames do. I always thought this is what the four now we're gonna plan to do. Anyway, it makes sense to me. I think they looked at where they were in the draft and they thought, we're we don't plan to ever be up

this high again. And I think they made the mistake in seventeen of thinking we need to set the groundwork. Uh. And we're gonna get cute in draft Solomon Thomas and pass on Deshaun Watson and Patrick Moms and they didn't want to make that mistake again. I do wonder if Jimmy G, you know, if could be traded in training camp too. These aren't decisions necessarily you have to make right now. If whoever they draft number three is legit in August, couldn't you know, couldn't you see Jimmy G

going out the door in August? No question, But you gotta wait until you see this guy in shoulder pads and run around their practice field and running their offense. Uh. And obviously there's the bubble of Max Jones, Max Jones and Max Jones. Hey, if Kyl Shanton thinks Mac Jones is Kirk Cousins and anyway, always Kirk Cousins was always mentioned, by the way, when you talk quarterbacks with Kyle she

in hand. I learned that early on. If you just keep saying Kirk Cousins with it was Kyle Shannon, you're never wrong. But uh, if if Matt Jones is the guy and he beats out Garoppolo, then you cut Jimmy Garoppolo or you trade him, and that's twenty five million dollars and other people are worried about, which the Four Nighters are not worried about Jimmy Garopplos, but five million dollars they are not. They They've told me this consistently. We've we've budgeted, we've figured it out. It's a cost

of having a good quarterback in the NFL. That's what piece of what the thirteenth highest paid quarterback in the league, this is what it costs. Uh And I think that they're they're prepared for that, and they're also prepared for Jimmy to play great, like if he goes out there and he kicks ass, and the players his teammates loved

the guy. And I've always said to part of the reasons why long Roam loos this guy so much, unlike maybe another quarterback who was kind of off stratified off with the head coach buddy Buddy, is that he's always getting Kyle's always yelling at him. Kyle's always likes that you could have done this better. Kyle was very clear that he wasn't great in the Super Bowl. Accurately was was not you know, Kyle's annalys is after it, but

he's not been protected, he's not been coddled. You know, you don't have that Jared Goff thing where I think he thought he was coddling Golf to get him to a spot. And then just forget about I've done too much, was Shanahan and Garppolo. It's just been you're in my quarterback, I like you, you can do better, and I'm gonna tell you that you can do better, and you know, you get the Super Bowl clurchin and three, I'm still gonna look at Tom Brady. I'm still gonna look at

whoever they were looking at Deshaun Watson. There's no question about it. This officin's been all talk about what that might have led them, how that might have led to this decision. But it's different, I think. And you have a straight up relationship with the quarterback, which was not very often maybe in the NFL, where he's treated like a center or a tighten or receiver, and it's different as a quarterback making the most money. But he really

just treated like that. And again that's why his teammates like him so much. He's they can rip them and joke with him. And he's not on his other level where oh no, no, no, no, no, it's Jimmy. That's not in that situation in the Foregs locker room at all. And I don't think they would have loved it if they foreign attors just give the job to a you know,

twenty one year old quarterback in April. Uh, if you see it, If the guy is fantastic, if he's Russell Wilson, like you know Wilson was as a rookie, that's fine. You earned that on on the field, they're not gonna be in love. Would just say he can you know, Jimmy, do you want a lot of games? But we're a little tired of you. So this guy whoever the tree Lance Matt Jones, he's the starter period, Trent Williams, I

don't care. That's what you're blocking for. I do not think that would have played very well in the Foreh's locker room. I guess it leaves me Um with some questions about the Jimmy g experience in his persona then, because I get that the you know, the Belichick using a second round pick to somewhat light of fire perhaps under Tom Brady, who already is Um the ultra competitor um in sports today. So, I mean, I don't know what fire needed to be lit, but but it did.

It did help. But with Jimmy G, the idea that we're kind of going to be telling him, yes, you have a nice relationship with the coach, with the GM, we're all sort of on the level here, but we're essentially bringing something they have given up, the future. It's not a second round pick. It's a ton of draft picks to very clearly get someone to replace Jimmy G. And and then it just seems to me that the most pro NFL quarterbacks would be like forget that, I'm I want this is my job, or I want to

go start somewhere else where. I'm seen as the future versus He's essentially been reduced to the level of bridge quarterback and I and that wasn't the narrative for him. So do you really think that Jimmy G is so affable and Sonny that he would allow this just do go on without any complaint or reservations. Yeah, I don't think I picked the words out a bowl, per Sonny. I think it would be Okay, let's compete five, let's compete and you know what, he's not making million dollars

anywhere else. Even if he's traded the Patriots, I don't think they're paying him when they'll they'll they'll reschedule his contract. So that's probably It's not a bad life if you're competing with somebody and you're starting for this great roster. Is what everybody's opinion is here, and the pain the pace is pretty good too. So I just don't know that he's I've heard this again. This is in in his camp or people around in his mind. This is him being drafted behind Brady. And it wasn't to light

a fire under Brady. I've heard this. It was to replace Brady, not right away, but it was Brady was thirty seven. I think at the time, had not had his best seasons. The Patriots had won a super Bowl in nine seasons. I think Brady thinks that that Jimmy was was drafted to replace him, not right away, but in two years, and Brady just played fantastic, played his ass off, so he pushed it away. Jimmy's not Brady, obviously, he's not that guy. It's not three number ones. That's

not the same situation. I understand that, but in his minds like if I play so well that they can't put the rookie ahead of me, good And if if I play so well that they all of a sudden that they can trade me for something that's good too. You don't back away from this challenge, and maybe in training camp there's other decisions to be made. Let's see what this guy is like, Well, what if the rookie holds out? What if the rookie gets hurt? What if

we've seen these things happen over and over again. Drew Breese Joe Montana, I mean Drew Brees had a very similar circumstance. Joe Montana in San Francisco had was essentially benched for Steve Young and then had to come back and compete when they gave up a ton of pics. It's not unprecedented. Yeah, again, it's if the salary is is workable in the foreigners have always which is what I've been writing since December. The foreigners don't think the

salary is a problem. Uh Garoppolo wants to compete. He wants to win a Super Bowl with these guys, And if you're a competitor, you would super Bowl with these guys, you get the trophy and then you go go to hell. Guys, you didn't think I was good enough for this. This is what's sort of the general thought process. Maybe he's wrong, he could be wrong, but he's not getting twenty five million dollars anywhere else, by the way, And that's the

practical thing. And if he plays really well, the markets only better, and he's you know, as I wrote, and then Florida has made him a twenty five million dollar underdog. That's not a terrible position to be in. Just shut up, go play, you think you're really good. Stay healthy, which

is which is by far the biggest factor. He has not been healthy this twenty three games in the the last three seasons, hasn't really been the same quarterback, even though he was good in he's he's lost some ability since at a c L twenty eighteen. So all these things are part of the factory. But he goes in there and plays great, and the offense works well and the defense is as good as it was in twenty nineteen. I see this from that, like, hey, you know what,

this isn't where I'm in a terrible situation. If your garoppolo, if they've been straight with him. If they've been lying to him and say, will never do this, We'll never bring in somebody else through the perfect quarterback. I think it's a different mentality. I think it's screw you, get me out of here. I've written about this a lot, so I could say this confidently. They've never told him

stuff like that. They've never said, you're unquestionably the guy. Well, Kirk Cousins has been somebody Kyle Shanahan has thought about constantly since he's been here. Even they almost didn't do the trade for Jimmy because they were going to sign Kirk Cousins in the next offseason. They didn't draft to Shawn Watson or Mahomes are really even evaluate and they might have evaluated my Home's a little bit of Watson are both a little bit, not a lot, because they

were gonna sign Kirk Cousins. That's always been that relationship. I like you, Jimmy, but I always liked this other guy better. So that almost helps them in this context because they have again they have not overplayed it with Garoppolo.

It's not this passive, addressive you're the greatest, You're the greatest. Okay, now, you stink it's been this Yeah, I mean this is it's just been this back and forth dialogue between you know, a demandy coach and the quarterbacks who a lot of games and then he's also been hurt and he's also thought played well sometimes because of the context there, you know, they're gonna try to look to get somebody better, and they decided now they really are gonna get somebody better,

not necessarily this season. It makes me think, you know, not to play fantasy sports here, but if Shanahan is so in love with Kirk Cousins, dude, some of these draft assets, why don't you go try to get Kirk Cousins uh capital for almost could get a gun for almost nothing, by the way, Yeah, I just that's what That's what makes me think. Again, the Matt Jones stuff is now overpowering. I'm not debating that that Shannon probably

really likes him. He went likes him at three. With the three first round picks, you want the extra with that if you you want, you know, you want the Russell Wilson, you want you know, the Josh Allen. Those guys beat the forty niners, so I can't see I guess I can't get We know Kay coaches cant stubborn. We know that sometimes they aren't thinking the big picture. But they're bidding with everyone else for this. Right, you pay three first rowd picks because you're bidding for the value.

Why are you bidding for the value? Who isn't the great value? You're doing this to move into that fields. Wilson possibly trade lance thing. In my opinion, again, Kyle might be so in love with mac Jones it doesn't matter. And if he is, I think it's a ridiculous, horrendous misvaluing of this situation. San Francisco will go absolutely crazy if they've done all this to get mac Jones. I mean, your job is gonna what do they know? Though you know that doesn't matter, that's not going to stop them

from reacting. I mean that would be one of the bigger draft stories around. If they do this to get mac Jones, people are gonna go nuts. Incredible. I was actually thinking ahead, but if this is the greatest fake of all time. But if this is an inception level where he's doing this, they're gonna trade back to fourteen and take Matt Jones and fourteen and every go, oh my god, mates, fourteen. It is the greatest mottle all time.

I don't know. I don't see the logic. And even if Kyle was head over heels for mac Jones, even if he was, somebody there has to put the brakes on it. Somebody there is. I said, you know what, we don't have to do anything. We can sit a twelve and then if we're worried someone else is gonna go all for and then re erect. We don't have to do it in March. That's the part that like, I wonder if there was somebody there. I assume there was.

Barack Marazze is a great, you know value guy. Um but and we know coaches and Kyle shanahana's shot caller there. There's no there's not anybody else. It's Kyle Shanahan. So if he was just that's it. I want this guy. I'm worried. Like the only thing I could think is and you know, he was worried to Patriots might move up uh and go get him. Maybe that's what he was about, just built all check, giving up three number one for Matt Jones. Maybe he was giving up to

and that's why he had to go three. Though I I don't know who knows. I I just I don't put much anyone's evaluation though of Mac Jones, because it's usually a bunch of people like us that it's not really their jobs, and we're basing it on other consensus opinions. And and if Shanahan loves him, and that's the one pro day that he goes to and Chris, you know, Chris Sims, who's his buddy, loves him, and it's like, then he's not gonna feel like any prices too much.

It definitely raises the stakes of this entire draft process, though, because you could not trade up to number three. I guess you could be confident Mac Jones would be there, but you could not trade up to number three and know exactly what you're getting. You have to love two quarterbacks, you know, you have to love two guys. You have to absolutely be willing to change your entire franchise for

two or three different guys. And you know why Now that's I mean, we're gonna talk to Shanahan a little bit. That's gonna be a key question. I don't know if he's gonna answer, But why now, why? Why did you have to do it? Now? Look if you if he goes of the mac Jones thought process that he was afraid the Patriots are gonna move up for him, gonna

traded too. But with the Jets trade with the Patriots to uh, I'm sorry, or four, It could trade with four, you know, without there could be spots for the Patriots to move in ahead as well. But I just don't see you go through the process for somebody. Again, it's just draft experts. You're right, but you look at the talent level. Justin fields, Zack Wilson versus Mack john just in the way the end of modern NFL's plane, the

way Josh Allen plays, the way Kylin Murray plays. Again, guys, are this is not like a you know, just some experimental thought. They've beat the forty Niners, they've beat them at Patrick Mahomes slightly different. But you know, I think you need to get into that if you're gonna give up three, I mean I would have thought so anyway that you gotta get into that world of talent. You

can't just try to get many Kirk cousins. But when you give up the picks that they gave up, you can't just do it to get another guy, and I think matje I would think differently. I mean, I don't like to, you know, I just don't I've seen that. You know, we've all seen a ton of Alabama games. You can throw the ball, you can be accurate. I think he's got slow feet and in the NFL, you got slow feed people coming after you. Now the Brady survives of a Brady. You know, he can move around.

There's some agility within the pocket. I just don't know that. If you're just you're I just believe this is a time to change some of the things that he wants to do. I believe there's time to adapt some of the things he wants to do with the outsized athletic talent. And if you're a great coach, you should be able to adjust an outsize athletic talent who can read the field, who can make the passes. And I think this is

the year to do it. And again I could see them thinking, well, at twelve, like you said, we're never gonna we don't think we're gonna be in this high for a long time. This is a great quarterback draft. We like three of them. Let's go, let's go to three and we'll be fine, and if we need to make a maneuver within we're already at three, it's gonna not gonna cost a ton more. But I would still think they're gonna stay at three. I get all that logic.

I don't get it from Mac Jones. I really tell a kid for Mac Jones, because I think you could have you know what at highest were're gonna go to seven? Eight? Um, Matt Jones, again, you're bidding against people who are trying to get Trey Lance Za, Zack Wilson or or Justin Fields. So why are you paying that price for somebody who isn't going to get that any In my opinion, again, we might all be wrong. Maybe Matt Jones is the guy that everybody's raised. Maybe the Jaguars are now sweating

over Trevor Lawrence or Mac Jones. I don't know, but I don't don't feel like that to me, and and it certainly doesn't illustrated by the games they played, and I think that we all watched. Tim. Thank you so much for the insight, and make sure you follow everything Tim writes on the Niners, because this guy is plugged us as you could tell. Thank you, buddy, and good luck,

appreciate him. There he goes Tim Kawakami. Really interesting. And you know one thing that I thought too about this, because it is interesting now the way things shake out. It started out being this draft is about Trevor Lawrence. Trevor Lawrence, Trevor Lawrence, and it still is. He's gonna be the number one overall pick. The Zach Wilson thing has built up now where he's seen as a kind

of an elite prospect to a lot of people. Now, So now you got one too, to give up as much as San Francisco has to get to three and maybe get the third best guy off the board when there is a drop off in a lot of people's eyes. That's interesting. But it also, like one thing I thought when this went down, it gave them flexibility with the big name that people don't know how to talk about right now, Deshaun Watson. Uh. And every day you wake up, you check your phone when you wake up, and there's

more lawsuits filed against this guy. And now there's a report um from espn UM reportedly about um Watson reaching out trying to settle with some and they're leading Instagram posts and we we obviously don't know the whole story here, but you just wonder if that third overall pick they have options there, whether we want to go through the draft or leverage that to go get Deshaun Watson, one of the top five quarterbacks in the league. Or is

Deshaun Watson totally out of play right now? Is that where he's at in his career and what a stunning turn of events that has been over the last two weeks, right or if all this Deshaun Watson news lit a fire under the forty niners even more to go get this pick and get this rookie that they were thinking about. Kyle Sanan went to Mac Jones pro day. Apparently he never goes to people's pro days, like quarterbacks par days in person. It's the only one I guess he went to.

Whether they're trying, I don't know why they would telegraph things. I don't know why they would put things out through the media that they love Mac Jones. Unless they did, there's no way we're gonna know. Who knows. Maybe it is all for justin fields like we're gonna have to wait until April, I think too to get those answers.

But people that seem to know. Kyle Shenna invest think it probably is for for Mac Jones and that, and people around the league think it is and that, and the it would add up and the way Tim mentioned like, isn't there anyone in the building that would say hold up? It's like, no, it's Kyle Shanahan's team that's made it. That's been clear throughout. John Lynch is there to execute Kyle Shanahan's vision, very much like Bill Bell checks GMS are there to execute his vision. It is not the

John Lynch show. It's the Kyle Shanahan show, especially at quarterback. And three first round pick sounds like a lot. Well, first of all, the first one is the twelfth pick, so you're moving up. It's really, you know, two extra first round picks. I just think of that first draft to keep mentioning it though, because the forty Niners never got any greed for it. They had two first round picks that year too, by the way, to start their

franchise off. They took Solomon Thomas and Ruben Foster. So that's what two first round picks can sometimes do for you. This is Kyle Shanahan laying a stake that this is my future. I plan a B for the with the forty Niners for as long as possible, and this is gonna be my quarter back. I got to assume it's for a very specific guy, and it's it's got to it's probably a rookie. And maybe the Watson news, to your point, Dan clarified it for him that that this

was gonna get too massy. You don't do this unless you are crystal clear on certain that you're going to get a quarterback you're in love with. And we know it's not Trevor Lawrence and it's not Zack Wilson, so there is someone sitting out there and maybe it is Mac Jones. I still think that, you know, the Deshaun Watson thing, to me is completely off the table. I just don't know how any of this gets sorted out

before the draft. And no matter how much you like the player, quarterback is about availability, and we don't even know how this thing shakes out when he'll play next I mean, there's a there's a potential chance that if a suspension comes down at some point that you don't

even have Deshaun Watson next season. So I don't know how between now and the draft, these picks would have been used as leverage to spice up that kind of a deal, I mean a month ago, yes, and then they'd be sitting there thinking, now we have to go get someone. In my opinion, this looks like they fell in love with someone at quarterback. Maybe it's Mac Jones,

maybe it's Lance. We don't know, and they're well, they're really comfortable based on our talk with Tim too, having having Jimmy g as part of the plan for next season to ease that quarterback incorrectly, Well, I do wonder too if they you know that that that to move out of three, the Dolphins are getting good offer like that they that that it was the Eagles potentially, who Ian Rapaport mentioned had been moved, you know, somewhat interested in moving up, but maybe it was only for Zach Wilson.

And then as Tim mentioned, maybe it's the Patriots who who wanted to move up for Jones and they and they felt the pressure that they needed to box someone out.

Like now, the timing of the trades and I know we're gonna get to the Dolphins Eagles trade indicates that to me, you know that they that there were other offers that the fact that the Dolphins had another trade ready to go five seconds later makes me think that there was a lot of conversation about this number three pick and backup plans, and the Dolphins basically had this whole plan mapped out before they even made the trade with the forty Niners, right, And you mentioned the Dolphins,

So the forty Niners. We've talked about that. The Dolphins started this thing with the Niners by sending that number three overall pick in exchange for the number twelve, a first and third round pick in two, and a first round pick in twe then Miami turned around and sent the number twelve, pick, number one, twenty three, and their two thousand, twenty two first round pick to the Eagles in exchange for the number six and number one and

fifty six picks in this year's draft. Um I would think that this this for the Dolphins makes sense if you're gonna give to a real good look here as your potential future, and you now put yourself in position in addition to accruing more draft assets here, Greg, you also now have a chance to bring in a real stud playmaker on offense, and we've talked about that. Uh, you know. Uh, they went and they got Will Fuller,

and that felt like a nice start. But the way this draft is starting up, where the first three picks might be quarterbacks, um, it feels like to be in that number six spot is a really good place to be to get a big time playmaker exactly I mean, and this is a great top of this draft for playmakers. I don't think they're gonna be in the left tackle market, and so that means they get to take Kyle Pitts the tight end, or Jamaar Chase, or if you want

to take Davante Smith, whoever, it's gonna be. Whoever they like, They should have their choice of a few of those top guys. And it makes me more excited about the Dolphins. I want to see the two a year two with talent around him, and that defense so well coached. I think they've done some weird things in terms of their moves and they've gotten off of players quickly on defense. But like that, that sounds exciting and I want to see the two a year to leap and now he's

getting a good chance for it. I think if you're a Dolphins fan, you know it's been This is a team that's sneaky, had a really rough thirty years. UM. You now, with Chris Career, I think have one of the best general managers in the game. He's been involved with over six years and eight separate deals for first

round picks. Um. He was a forward thinking um GM before a lot of the league is caught up, and I think you're looking at a team that is you know, I wondered if maybe they were still there were still a chance back in the Deshaun Watson UM pre Deshaun Watson version of this whole thing, where maybe that would

have been a destination or a move. But yeah, you're right at this point, it's go add the best playmaker you can around him, and you've got a coach and general manager that have a real vision and they were able to pull it off. And Chris Greer never gets fleeced. He ef. You look at every single deal that they've pulled off, I think they've always gotten great value. You could argue Manca Fitzpatrick should have not been traded, um, but still you've got a first round pick. I mean

you action grades from Mark. Mark's got the whole grade. Um, He's got a lot of you know, he wrote the Grades article last week. Grades are his new corner, Chris Greer getting a lot of holidays? Was there was Did you take the grades pop from someone else? Did you

wrestle them away or was it sitting there? Anyone at dot com could have had it, and you took it well to dispel your theory that it's sort of a career launcher, I actually wrote the piece last year too, and it had zero traction um And in fact, it has so little traction that we carved out an entire network segment discussing the grades I had given the Raiders, and that was the first thing that got wiped out

during our show. All this trade news came in. They said, we've got to get rid of content, and they said, well that makes for easy ridden's so what's Mark's most recent work? Take that out of the mix. Hey, I wanna not to get two sidetracked here, but um panthers a loser right now there. They They're in a little bit of a tough spot here because well, it all felt I I don't want to say it was it

was a done deal because it wasn't. But there was momentum building toward them and Deshaun Watson and Mark I think you nailed You nailed it on the head. No one is doing a trade right now until it's gets sorted out. There's just too much at stake on both sides to do a deal involving a guy who's having these legal issues that could become criminal. Um, it could become a criminal issue right now, it's civil, especially because

the Texans don't want to. I still think that team, like the Panthers, their patriots might be like, this is a ten year decision, will do whatever, But the Texans don't want to anyway, So that acts and not to be flip here, but if Deshaun Watson has a tenure prison sentence or something, you don't do a trade. I mean, it's just everything seems to be on pause. Um I'm working under that. Maybe I'm totally wrong, Maybe he's it's

actively going on behind the scenes right now. But if Deshaun Watson is off the table, now you have the Jaguars, Jets, and Niners locked one, two, three at the top of the draft, unlikely to move. Maybe maybe the Jets move out of number two, but it doesn't seem that way, not when you have the brain trust. UM at Zack Wilson's Pro day and all the buzz around him right now,

does this end? Um, Greg Rosenthal with Teddy Bridgewater getting another shot in Carolina just because they feel like they got boxed in here, just the thought, just the thought exercise maybe competing, you know with Lance or Fields. That the thing is though, if mac Jones has taken third, I mean you gotta do the math. Then there's five of these quarterbacks and they go one to three and

the Panthers are still at seven. So I don't know how much they are gonna like Trey Lance or Justin Fields if they fell, but there's there's still too many quarterbacks. And the Patriots certainly are looking for one and the paint, but they're much lower in the draft, and the Panthers are still in a decent spot at seven where they might go get it and they are the ultimate team. And I would throw the Patriots in, but I can't see it happening that the Panthers are the ultimate team.

That might you know, be willing to wait this out with Watson because like Jimmy g they've got a quarterback that and even it's more complicated to get off Teddy Bridgewaters contract. He's do all these this guaranteed money anyway, so he's kind of there, just backup plan that's gonna be there, and they could wait it out until November, you know, they could wait it out and as long

as they wanted to. And if Watson really was their number one choice all along, which is what it sounded like, then maybe they are the team that gets that done in a long time. Yeah. But to Dan's question, though, are they drifting towards the loser category of the winners and losers here? I would say they are because they also went after Matthew Stafford. All right, they clearly were the team most interested in Watson, and that thing's in

a holding pattern. You're right. That can happen down the road, and the Falcons, I think, will draft a quarterback to I think we're gonna get four straight quarterbacks off the board. And then you're looking at the Panthers saying, are we cool enough drafting our fifth or six choice at the position they were at number eight? They just weren't high enough. It's the problem when you you don't basically stink enough the season before, and you're sitting in a place where

people can hop Scotch. You. I thought the Patriots were gonna hop gotch Carolina and move up to get to this place to get this quarterback. They haven't. So there's two teams still looking for one um and they're not enough quarterbacks to go around. No matter how good of a class it is, you already know that half of them are going to fail. They're not going to live up to their pedigree. In fact, if half live up to it, that will be a surprise. It's just not

how it works. Everyone's perfect today, they'll all be mega flops half of them two years from now. Well, you could look at it one other way to that, which is the Panthers saying sweet, the forty niners are out on the Deshaun Watson market and they're taking mac Jones. Right, that's someone we don't they could they could. I mean that is the other way to look at it. And you're right. If they show exhibit patients here, wait out this legal issue and then come hard, uh, there might

be a smaller market. It could work out. You're right, there's two ways to look at it. But I imagine there's a level of impatience that could be building there not looking after what they've done with Teddy. It is tough to for I think everyone to stomach going into Week one with Teddy as you're starting quarterback. That would be tough. And then, um, you know, we could maybe get into the Eagles uh more in depth later in the week. But do you have any thoughts boys on

what the Eagles have done here? They they are at the number six spot, which would have given them that money access to a big time playmaker. They moved back to twelve. Uh and that Dolphins trade they pick up an extra first round pick, which is good and I think this is good news for Jalen Hurts. But at the same time, if I'm an Eagles fan who's kind of on guard right now mark about everything the organization

is doing. Am I a little annoyed I traded out of a money spot to pick up a big time playmaker? I mean, the Eagles fans are going to be annoyed no matter what anyone does, so that's the baseline. But I would say this, I think that if you're a little bit more of a philosophical fan, you could look at what Jeffrey Lori's mantra has been since the season ended, that this is not a win now roster at the moment that there is a setting the table. I'm not saying it's a six year plan, but they have twenty

picks over the next two drafts. They have two first rounders next year, and that could turn into three based on what Carson Wentz does with the Colts. That's how you other, like other teams, set an environment where you can make a major trade up next season or even maybe be in position depending on where they finished to get a quarterback next year, but at the same time not totally blowing up the world for Jalen Hurts this year that you give him a full clean chance to

show maybe he's the guy. So I don't hate what they've done. They've got they basically kind of need to reconstruct everything coming out of a team, a roster, a cap situation that just burnt out, and they've done it quicker than some teams do. It does make you wonder though, with the timing when they saw the forty nine ers moved to three and then they get out so quickly.

I don't know, Well, we'll never know. Ian sent out that that tweet about Zack Wilson and then an hour later sent another tweet that was like, well, maybe they didn't really like Zach Wilson's I'm not I'm not sure what's going on the report. Just for clarity, the Fields reportedly attempted to trade up to number three beforehand, but they were only gonna do it for Zack Wilson, So

like if Wilson fell, they were they were prepping the pump. Yeah, either way, it's a little too much Joe Flacco in my life if I'm an Eagles fan, Like we're gonna just be hearing about him, and he wants to be competing, And yes, it's Jalen Hurts his job, but it's like Joe Flacco is gonna be there and wanting to get in the field. And if anyone inside that organization is secretly viewing Joe Flacco as the starter over getting a full look at Jalen Hurts, then you've lost me. No,

I don't think that would be the case. And he's only getting paid three and a half a million dollars To be fair, he got Joe Flacco can say whatever he wants until that Johnny Uniteds movie comes out that he was so called ticketed for as an on field version of Johnny uniteds, I don't believe anything he said this, So up to eight million dollars as the we have to get rid of up too in the contracts any But that's why I'll the Eagles fans were all fired

up and annoyed about the Flacco signing because initially it was reported like up to a thousand million dollars for Joe Facco, and it's like now he's getting three and a half million. It's like very much a backup, like hardcore backups out and remember like not only do you get a backup quarterback, you get a statue and you put him out there and you have and you get that too, So it's almost like a two for one factor that in as well. Um, all right, let's um

hit the rest of the news. Let's get out of this trade chocolate. What's going on in the league in our league? That day, we came through the board with Jim, but right there was White Nicky too. I said, I gotta get something for yo. Hey, I'm gonna tell you what it felt good. God, I don't know what it was from how recent it was. He's wearing a mask sitting around a fire, so it must have been in

the past year. But I don't know if you guys saw Randy Moss telling a long story about the background on why he as Chris collins Worth famously put it, shot the moon at the lambeau Field crowd um telling the whole back store, very very feel you gotta love it would feel good to when's the last time you moon someone? Or I am assuming everyone here has moons someone at some point. I'm not saying recently, but as a child. I mean I'd have to go back to

probably middle school or something. Yeah, you gotta go back a couple of decades, at least three, maybe three decades. I do it once a week just to sort of feel alive, shake things up a little. Yet in front of the elementary school, it's you know, it's a shaky move, but you know it's like Greg lives across from a supermarket too, that that's you know, the supermarket crowd gets Yeah.

And of course that was who always be linked that game and that that game winning touchdown catch and then the call from Joe Buck famously, that is a disgusting you know, Joe is still digging out from that all these years later. It's almost like he's been on a decade long um apology tour trying to prove that he's now a cool dad. He's like, now that wasn't me. I'm actually cool, I'm funny, and I'm chill. But that's

a tough that's a toughie. Mark. That's a tough one to because you once you burn that into the minds of football fans. Uh, it's a tough one to get out. And I always think that he takes way too much heat um and especially you know in the world of Twitter. But he miscalculated that one because he came across a sort of a a little bit of a snooty schoolmarm type person trying to tell us how we should live

our lives. And it's like, I think it's kind of cool that a player mooned like the opposing craft and it would have been one thing if you were seeing like an actual mooning situation, but it was just, you know, it was just pretend. And yeah, I think Buck's been digging out of that and been digging out of treating the helmet catch like it was a guy to putting on the fifteenth green at like you know, the Masters or something acting like that. It was it was terrible.

That was helmet catch second most exciting playing Super Bowl history. Let's you know, put in rare belongs. Those were yes, those were still sticking with that one. Huh. Um. You know, I I think he's a great It made the moment so much more famous too. I think if he had just had a normal call, it would not have lived on Like, who was the Seahawks player that play acted um taking a large dump on the field during the Super Bowl and that he got off totally without it.

It's just hard to to tell a lot of people that you're a cool dad when that was how you reacted in the moment. So it's almost your truest self. But you know, Joe hanging there, buddy, It's all gonna work out for you in the end. I think it has in fact, all right. Uh, Sammy Watkins, he's off the board. He's two only seven. Sammy Watkins is still really yes. I mean I think he's turning twenty eight. Maybe he's been twenty seven for fourteen years now. It's

incredible anyway. Uh, he has signed with the Baltimore Ravens. The Ravens finally get somebody to play wide receiver for them. One year, five million dollar contract. Uh, and he will be paired with Hollywood Brown. I guess is there one two punch there? You imagine Baltimore could investigate adding more weapons. Greg, let me ask you this. Do you find it? What does it tell you about what the league or wide

receivers or what the players think about Lamar Jackson? That it was so hard to get a guy in here before Watkins finally comes one for five. Yeah, that they weren't expecting a lot of passing yards when you know, it came down to it. Now, I think the I think the Ravens could have ended the narrative very easily

by just offering significantly more money. He in each of these cases, you're mentioning it was juju, it was t y. Ultimately, they were choosing between very similar contracts and they went with a place that they thought, you know, because according to she said, with Hilton it was significant. Yeah. But here's the thing, it was like, you know, in that case, it's like two years spread out. So you're also these things are are shaped by agents who have a narrative

that they want to say. The player in this case might want to have got back to free agency rather than taking more guaranteed money in less per year. Anyway, I think it gets exaggerated a little bit. But Sammy Watkins hasn't done much in a long time. He hasn't done much really since he was um, you know with the same coach that's that's in Baltimore that squeezed some yards out of him, uh when he was back in Buffalo. He hasn't top seven under yards since. So he's played

well in the playoffs. He's very similar to Hollywood Brown. That worries me. He's also similar in Hollywood Brown that he's performed as best in the playoffs. Hollywood Brown has been great in the playoffs. Sammy Watkins been great in the playoffs. Neither one of them have really shown up and been consistent in the regular season. I think this was also about the people involved. You mentioned Greg Roman was his coordinator when he had his only thousand yards season.

Keith Williams, who is Baltimore's pass game coordinator, is his personal receiver's coach, so there's relationships. Maybe that trump some of the suspicion. Also, there wasn't much of a market for Sammy Watkins obviously, but I don't think you it is you know, great players go to terrible teams in free agency because of money, uh and Baltimore did offer more,

and there is something going on. I think in terms of the way these players talk to each other that the Baltimore landing spot pass game wise for a wide receiver is a bit of a dead zone. And I mean, and there's a reason for that. I don't think it's Lamar Jackson. I think it's the way the offense is put together. And you've got two years in a row to look at that and say, is that where I want to go on a shorter contract to show what

I can do there? They're a better landing spot. Although Juju passed on the Chiefs to be fair too at similar more money. I don't want to say it has nothing to do with Lamar Jackson nothing. It's just not there's gonna be four hundred to four hundred and fifty targets UH to whoever is catching the ball. So I don't know. It just made me think for a guy it's a reigning m v P. Usually guys race to go there. Is it all because they throw less? Or is it or is it really not that big a story?

Is that what Gregg saying it was a financial thing more than anything. This might be my own blind spot, but almost every time, you know, we hear that a player turned down more money elsewhere, I don't believe it. And almost always it's proven, like in the latter to be a little bit exaggerated. You know, got you all right in other news. And by the way, Sammy Watkins first round pick by the Buffalo Bills in nineteen seventy six, so you know you're gonna pair him with O J.

It was gonna be great. Yes, an unbelievable move by Doug Walley. All right, Uh, let's see. Carlos Dunlap resigns with the Seahawks two year, sixteen point six million dollars. He was cut loose by Seattle about two and a half weeks ago, three weeks ago. But now he's back, and that's good mark because Dunlop fills a need for them. And before he uh, I think he had a foot issue that slowed him down or a lower body issue, I believe, but he he was instant defense and pass

rush for them. If he comes back and he's that guy, he will be a big help for them. I mean, their pass rush down the stretch became much better and one of the better ones in the league, and they really became more of a defensive oriented team, you know, as they guess they got to the playoffs into January, and I think he was a big part of that. Um. The game that stands out to me is that Cardinals game that we watched in your garage, Dan with mass Son.

Just to be of course apart, you know he maybe even more it was he created chaos at the end of that game that uh you know, I know Kyler Murray was a little banged up. That changed that and really helped Seattle season not turn into a disaster. And

I think he really wanted to be in Seattle. UM. Knowing him a little bit personally from that trip that I mentioned a thousand times, I think he's someone that Pete Carrolls can say is like one of the most high quality, high character dudes who works out NonStop, like he's just you're gonna get your money's worth. Now, I said, who on that trip was not a high character dude? Give us one, because we know we know behind the scenes stories, so I know you have to be careful here.

But an example of someone or maybe their behavior. I would point, I would say that my character could always have been a little bit better, Like can I can I answer that? I mean, it's not as fun, but you can't. Okay, Well, I'm not gonna out anyone. I don't. I Also when they would get up to certain things, that's when I would be taken off the invite list. I wasn't part of that because you had to roll in with like Gucci bags and like eight grands in

your pocket, and I was on Roger Good. I had to put a boats in general, right, if they're volunteering to, you know, help out um, you know they armed forces and take a week out of their life for nothing, they're probably in general, that's a self selecting good group of guys. It is, It's not. It wasn't ragamuffin type snow is there. I don't know. My mind keeps drifting here. But now I'm thinking about Seattle and Seahawks fans are happy that we're talking about their team. They don't want

to hear anything about Russell Wilson in a trade. It's not realistic. Blah blah blah. Could the Seahawks if they really are open to a potential deal on some level prey on David Tepper's aggressiveness and the Panthers and I'm talking herschel Walker type trade. Is that something that could happen where you give up everything you have because Teppers and he feels cornered and he goes nuts. I don't know. I'd listen. I think, yeah, they're listening. That's all you

could say. I mean, I don't know what would be too much to get Wilson if if you're the Panthers, give him first three seconds, uh, you know, your best defensive player. I don't know, maybe Christian McCaffrey. I don't know, Like, like what would what would it do? What would it take? I would say, just just give Pete Carroll a running back and you'd probably he would green light the thing.

I have found it fun to watch, you know, Russell Wilson now on Twitter, just like over the top, excited about all these sudden He's like yeah, dunlopping back and now he's like the super Seahawks cheer. Later it's like, okay, okay, um, how about this Mark and we'll move on. I don't want to hang on this, but you are, I was gonna say, Schneider but no, you're Pete Carroll and I'm gonna offer you three first three seconds and Christian McCaffrey for Russell Wilson. Yes, I would say yes, Greg, I

wouldn't bother. I mean, at this point, I guess no, Russell Wilson is basically untradeable. But what if behind the scenes the relationship really is just looking at it from above, where I would get rid of Pete Carroll and Schneider? I don't. I don't understand why we would want Why would you would want to start over looking for quarterbacks and be totally mediocre? But then you're leaning, You're leaning

on a strange ownership group to make that decision. And if you make the move now there is no get rid of Pete Carroll to save Russell Wilson. They have to be approved by ownership. But no, I try to go win the Super Bowl with Russell Wilson this year because life is short, and I think they would have, you know, some chance to do that. Um. In other Seahawks related news, drawn read the defensive tackle signs with the Chiefs a contract that features five million and guarantees.

Seattle try to move Read uh, who's in a contract? Distude with the team. It couldn't make it happen. Uh So now he is with Kansas City. He was a sixteen game starter at six and a half sacks last season, and Greg, he's readers removed from a ten and a half sax season. You like this move for Kansas City? Yeah? I like it for Kansas City. You give someone next to Chris Jones that will help him out. They've been

thin there. It's a weird sequence. So he's one year removed from signing a two year, twenty three million dollar contract with the Seahawks, and he played like Dunlop played well down the stretch last year, and they're eating dead money to get rid of them. They they took a risk by cutting Dunlop and hoping to get him back at a lower salary. They were essentially hoping to do

the same with Jarren Reid, and he might have. I don't know if he took less money to go to Kansas City, but he was not happy with how that was handled and he ended up he ended up leaving, but Seattle was very much hoping to bring back jarn Reid, and just this whole offseason is weird. They really prioritized Chris Carson. They really prioritized trading for Gabe Jackson, a guard who's gonna make ten million dollars, you know, a lot more than Jarren Reid. Where you're paying to get

rid of Jarren Reid. Gabe Jackson was a guy that the Raiders were trying to get rid of for two years. Is that going to solve their offensive line issue? And I do I do wonder about the overall like picture here and what what is the plan in Seattle? I'm not sure because they haven't been particularly good at what Pete Carroll wants to be good at for a little while,

which is running in defense. Yeah. The way thing I'd add is this is a team with three draft picks, and I get that this is maybe not the draft to load up on picks, but there aren't a lot of avenues um for them to address any holes they have. And the Jamal Adams trade, which I ripped the Jets for initially because what I thought was that the Jets kept giving away players that were good um and they could weren't develuable. But but a year later that was a win at all costs move for Seattle. They did

not win at all costs. There's no reason to think they're a better team right now, and there are not a lot of resources to back themselves out of the corner of the d So it is a strange time in Seattle. UM. Finally, in the news, Leonard four nets back with the defending Super Bowl chan Appians. He signs a deal, he's sticking around, and that is that's it. All their starters. UM, I believe we're gonna be back.

First team ever to do that, that one that is, and not just that, not just all twenty two starters. You also have the GM, the head coach, the d C, the o C. That almost never happens. You usually lose one of these architects, especially the coordinators after a Super Bowl wind. Have all your major pieces of the coaching staff back and all of your starters, that is remarkable. This is kind of an unprecedented experiment here by the Bucks. I can't say I blame them. I think it's gonna

be very interesting to see how it plays out. I'm like less excited about them running it back, but I do like having like as I was like getting ready to root the mind because they were they were the most exciting thing about the season. I thought from minute one to the very end, you know, because they were so different, they were this new character and now they are the favorites. It's it's really interesting how quickly that that turn. But you're right, there's no reason to think

they're gonna be like be bad. They that roster is awesome, Like I think they'll be to be better. I think like that there. I mean, if anything, like they always well, all I'd say is better over the course of the season, they didn't win their division. Um, the version of them that won the Super Bowl, I thought really bloomed late in the year. So I'm just saying you, in theory, you get that from wire to wire. Now, I don't need to be super excited about Leonard for Nette. The

same way would be about some other people they brought back. Um, I really thought, um, this would be a team that might have gotten James White to add one more Patriots piece that Brady knew so well, because I don't think that that part of what they had on their offense last year was maximized in terms of like a pass catching guy like White that can do so much. And now I I wouldn't rule them out from drafting or running back, maybe not high, but as well they also have, uh,

who's the other guy to have from last year? The draft pick Sean Vaughan and like they you know, he didn't play much, but I apparently the coach is still like, did you say that? No, I didn't mention earning for over first round pick tight end. He was, by the way, o J how just I When I read that yesterday, I was like, oh, yeah, he was an absolute can't miss tight end prospect. Those feel dicey, those can't miss tight ends in the first round. Keep that in mind.

Good player, good player, good But it was supposed to be like a game plan record. Maybe yeah, maybe I don't even get the truce. Arians loves him. That money are the bullies, though. I do like that they're coming back, Like I like that they made this narrative so easy that we're bringing everyone back. They are completely loaded. They're gonna be They're gonna have the most nationally tell what televised games like it's on. I like it. I like that.

And they did win eight straight to end the season. I mean what you know, Yes, they started a little slow and they lost a lot of they awesome close games. Too good teams other than the other than New Orleans who kind of beat them down, but they want eight straight and they beat down the Chiefs. I mean, it was about as good as it gets down the stretch. If they ever ran it back in one another title,

first of all, you'd have to do it again. Everybody, I don't care, I don't care what their numbers are, what their stats were, where they are in life, would have it now, right. And you know, also, I think Tom Brady becomes the greatest free agent signing of all time to add that to his list. If somehow they get back to the super Bowl again, he's already right up near the top. He's gonna take that. He's gonna

take that from Breeze to win. So in a much shorter, you know, more digestible time, it's better Greg two for two or one for twenty. I don't know. Just just let Drew Brees have this. It's like, now you're defending well, just I don't know what else. Uh, A year from now,

you have Tom Brady next time around. It is not to drop the Lombardi Trophy out of like a low flying private plane, and you're gonna have Gronk catch that or break Brady is gonna retire and then immediately jump on to The Today Show with Hoda Kadby and actually Breeze will get squeezed out of that role to actually that he'll be doing Notre Dame with Tarko. He's just he just hates Drew Brees and wants to ruin his life. That's that would be Jenna Bush getting canned in a

big spot right there. I could definitely also see him winning three Super Bowls with the Bucks and the Jets give him a seven hundred million dollar contract and he gets old. Um, Hey, that's what's happening in the news. Before we say goodbye, I want to check in with one of our One are the great men of NFL Media. He is the vice president of International title uh. He's also known uh in the podcast world as Handsome Hank, and that is no lie. He is Henry Hotson. What's up?

But welcome back to the A T N Podcast. Hello? Friends, how are we doing? You good? Thank you? How are you guys? Doesn't that title actually mean that you're the vice president of the rest of the world outside of where we live. International is literally everything beyond America. I like that Dan says that whenever he leaves one word off, which I mean I like to it's international marketing, so it's less impressive than just market Really, what what Dan says when he says it out loud is the diamond

chudge of everything other than the US. But that's not actually true. Last time that I came by because Henry, you know, he's such a soldier for this company, like amongst other things, when you are vice president of international, your your work hours and not like normal people. So I came by his house when I was doing my moving, and and the Hotchins were nice enough to watch the boys for a couple of hours. Hitting everybody up on that. By the way, Greg, they're coming over in about an hour.

A knock on the door, Henry's wonderful wife answers, and there's Henry in the middle of a meeting, speaking fluent Chinese, probably launching some impressive impressive that's what was happening exactly. Yes, No, that the was the I was a stranger. I wouldn't necessarily wish them on anything. See how he didn't correct me when I said, and he was gonna let that one sit out there, right, Henry, you texted me last week. You were upset with me and I and you know what,

it was a bad joy by me. For for years, for years, we've been tracking the international um NFL's International Pathway program away to get athletes football players from around the world, funnel them and give them the opportunity to play in our league. And uh, you know, we bet on a horse. His name was Maria's bow ringer Um. He was drafted by Hell. I don't know anymore than

Vikings Mike Mayock. If what would make Mayok called up exactly give this guy and zim I listened and he and he did it and were on the train from day one. No one's been the biggest supporter of Mares than actually there was in the war room. You actually saw Henry sneak into the room and slip a couple of hundreds into Zimmer's pockets, said, grab this guy, I needed for my international pop. He's a wide receiver, but he will become a tight end in a few years,

very versatile. He's now been in the Cincinnati Bengals organization for a couple of years. It just hasn't taken hold. And that's a bum. So keeping up with Bo Ringer where it's still it's on the back burner right now. It's not because I think we actually we ended that when he got caught by you invited me on to talk about marks the end of his career with the Bengels. He is now and if we can do an update, he is now that with the team that brought him

to the NFL Schwabish Hole Unicorns. Whoa, there's the music, everything else. So that is the update. He's gone full up back to the Unicorns in Germany. Here were all right, so lucky. Let's let's uh, let's gets though. The reason why Henry was upset with me is because there is one player who is the true sie story of the Pathway program. Uh, the only man who has now graduated to a fifty three man roster. It's f a Obata yet five and a half sacks last year for the Panthers.

The Panthers, so I don't know what's going on in that organization right now, but they say we're not going to bring him back. He lands with the Buffalo Bills, same team that has Christian Wade, another member of the Pathway Program, on their practice squad. So Henry I wanted to give you the floor here. I know about about as somebody that you are proud of because he's a he's a countryman and he was born in Nigeria, but he ended up in London as a youth, a very

tough childhood, a lot of challenges that he overcame. So since it didn't really click with bow Ringer, and in fact you thought sometimes it was mocking of the program, which it never was, I wanted to give you the platform here to celebrate a true champion of the Pathway program. F a Obada, Well, first of all, I would say you did it very well for me that then when I texted you last week, if I could have had anything, it was exactly what you just said. So congratulations you

you really nailed it. But I would say that it is it is a pretty amazing story fas Um. Story of of as you said was he was. He left Nigeria, was human traffic to the UK, lived on the streets of London and then got this opportunity to to do well, discovered football, played I think seven games for the London Warriors, and then went from that, you know, discovering football and

playing at an amateur level in the UK. To um joining the Dallas Cowboys and playing a training camp there and not kind of not totally being able to hook into that and eventually the International Player path Way program was the thing that gave him his opportunity played to the Panthers, was I mean, I don't I'm sure you guys watched the uh, what's the show called? The show? Will on that thing show exactly where he was one of the focal points of that Panthers season a couple

of years ago. You guys were at the game in London where he played for the first time in hunted fans from the UK, which was which was a pretty cool experience, and he I think he really became a big fan favorite in Carolina, and so I think a lot of fans were sad to see him leave after his best season last year. He got five and a half sacks and he got collected some pretty good scalps. Tom Brady, I think, was one of the guys you

got Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees. So if you want if you're gonna sack people, those the type of people I suppose you want to be sacking. Um. So now he's headed off to Buffalo UM and from what I understand on good authority. There were a few other teams that were in the mix to sign him as well, so I think he got a good deal there too, to got to Buffalo and get on a team that may unfortunately for two of us on this call, with with other allegiances to an FC East teams maybe on track

for a Super Bowl. Yeah, a nice place to sign as a defensive lineman. They get right production, they need help there. They rotate guys. He had twenty nine pressures last year and in under five snaps, so he was very uh productive. He's carving out, he's carbon out of we are What is your personal relationship though, like does does he thank you? Or how did that story? F A was part of the program when Moritz was there, and so I was with f A M Morits when

they were drafted in Chicago. We spent the day together. And then and then yeah, I know I know A pretty well and he's a He's a fantastic guy, a guy who you know has really gone through a lot in his life but is super positive and gives back so much. Two fans in the UK, both the fans and then also like the NFL Academy which you may have heard about, which is sort of designed to get kids a little bit earlier and get them starting to play football and hopefully get them into the college system

in the US. F A has really supported that in a massive way, um and and help grow that. And he wants to know to help create the pipeline of future f A A bartis to the US to be playing in the NFL, you know, Hank, Like, one thing I noticed when I was in Europe that we there were a lot of high school programs a football high school programs. Since so they are starting to get kids, um introduced to the sports so much earlier than in

years past. Do you think like in twenty forty uh, if things continue a pace with sports and society, that the NFL could look a little bit more like the NBA or Major League Baseball, where you know, twenty we're talking about you're finding the most physically dominant people. They're not all in America, by the way. I know, we like to think that. I mean, could you get to a point where of the NFL is foreign from outside the country. I think is a high number for for

twenty years from now. But what I would say is that you're exactly right, Mark, Like, the way for the sport to grow is to do that is to encourage kids to be playing, and then, um, you have to get kids in an early age. I think the play Pokery program has been incredible and then the one one mistake you made. There have been a couple of other guys that have made it, including Jakob Johnson, Greg's favorite

fullback in the NFL. Scott resigned as well. Exactly, But um, it's it's really hard to get guys at twenty, you know, that kind of age, and they've never played football before, they've had very limited exposure to football, and then get them they have to be like athletic freaks, which a is one of them. To to make it to the NFL is obviously much easier if they're playing, you know, starting at the same age that a kid in the US would start and learning the sport and developing their

body and all those kind of things. So, um, I think the earlier you can get them, and the longer you have that momentum going, then yeah, eventually maybe not, but more players being able to contribute in more ways. Do you see it in college football right now? I think there's a really high profile TCUs quarterback is a German guy. You know. I think those are the things that moves it along, as well as getting guys that score touchdowns as fun as sacks are, or being good

on the offensive line. Give me the name of that German guy. I gotta work on a new drop. Whenever you get the chance mention one of the things may go ahead. Everything that we've talked about here, like the Player Pathway program, international games in London, all those things. I just want to shout out a guy who's leaving the NFL this week named Alistair Kirkwood, who's the m D of the NFL UK Office and has been for twenty something years. He was my boss when I first

started at the NFL. Just an amazing man who put into place the player the player Pathway program. He put into place the fact that games are played in London, you know where. It was like completely insane when I was working there in two thousand and three that there would be regular season games played in the UK and now there are four a year. Um. He's the one who put the NFL Academy in place. Alista has done

so much to grow the sport internationally. He essentially. In fact, I was on a call this morning with FA on there where f A said I couldn't have done. You know, I'm not where I am without Alista's support. I'm actually not where I am without ask to support. I had dinner last week with a friend of mine who has now become defensive line coach for the Dallas Cowboys, who was the same guy that discovered f A, who was coaching in London. He wouldn't be where he is without Alista.

So there is a guy who who's done a ton to change and to grow the spool in the UK and kind of put the blueprint in for then how you do that in other countries as well. So I want to hail Alistair Kirkwood and wonderful friends. Man, he's got you know you guys coming coming to London as well. I don't think we we get to London for our two trips without our He definitely supported you guys. Best of luck and Henry will do whatever it takes to

get to the top of that chain. So we're seeing right now on me horribly all right, Henry, good stuff and we know see the Hank. We know that we have a huge following overseas, so it's good to have Hank on the speed dial. All right, We'll be back on Thursday with another brand new episode of Around the NFL Podcasts. We got closer to the drafting ramp it up. We might do a another one of our five times a week um uh um runs when we get to draft week. But until then, we'll be on this schedule

of the TV show on Friday. Check that out three o'clock eastern noon Pacific NFL Network. Mark you on one well, one little note. Are co worker Patrick Crawley and his wife Natalie had a son, cole over over the weekend, so we we have a we have a British Patrick Crawley and an American Patrick Crawley. I mean they're not the same person, but the American one nor the American one had a child. That's great. Well he Natalie, but once Henry, he was under you, Henry as a you

were his mentor sometimes I mean not. I mean he he really made me look good. So congratulations Patrick, and I hope cole Um makes someone look good in the future. Good stuff. Signing off our handsome Hank, the Old Boss, the Quiet Storm and Ricky Hollywood behind the virtual glass until Thursday. Who's the coal