Welcome to NFL Daily, where we embrace the NFL becoming like the NBA. I'm Greg Rosenthal here in the Chris Westling podcast studio. The trade deadline has come and gone, and there's no one I would rather have break it all down for me. No one, Maybe like one or two people. Mike Garafalo is very high on the list. Welcome Sydney Sweeney. No, I mean, I don't think she really has a hot take on the Jonathan Mingo trade, Like, hey, what are the cowboys doing? That's that's what I'm into.
Maybe got a hot take. I don't know what gets you going in the morning. Actually I do button up. I you don't need to button up. And yes we're on YouTube. Everyone check out the show there if you want. But for everyone else's it's mostly in the ears here and they're just gonna hear the great voice. I woke up early, you know, the daylight savings. Lots going on in this kind. Maybe I slept a little less because
of that. Who knows. I don't know what it happened in the day now and you know, we turned it on and it's like six in the morning. There's Mike Carafalo on my screen already on Good Morning Football, and here you are eight hours later. You've done three shows in between, You've got another more shows. I'm just making up numbers in terms of the show. It's all good. Don't you like that the NFL actually is worthy of a trade deadline?
Specially sure it makes it makes it interesting, adds a little wrinkle that we never had before, and it gives us a reason to make calls and say hello to some people during the season. And it's fun to get a little rush when you get to break some news on a day like this, or really, I mean, the thing that's surprising is it starts earlier and earlier every single year, and even now to the point where you
had eight deals today. I believe eight trades was the number which matched last year, not as high as the thirteen from twenty twenty two. But I had a conversation with a personnel guy the other day and I said, well, why is this now a thing where he didn't used
to be a thing? And they said there was a number of reasons, analytics and all this stuff, and he said, but the one thing that he really believes is there's so many coaches out there coaching trees overlapping that a lot of the terminology is the same these days, where it wasn't necessarily ten, fifteen, twenty years ago, and so now guys are able to come in and get acclimated
a little bit more quickly. But even to the point of DeAndre Hopkins in his second game with the Chiefs, there were a couple of times where he went out there and Mahomes is no, no, no, no, no, this He had to flip to the other side of the formation as they're lining up. There were two plays to the end of regulation where he wanted to hit him, one.
Time almost cast him.
The game didn't turn around, and then you saw Mahomes back to the sideline the Matt Nagy.
Again, I get it.
And he looked for him coming off the line. He had to have told him in the huddle, looks for him coming off the line. He's not looking. So with those hiccups, they're still off to a great start there, but it just tells you it is still difficult in season to get acclimated.
Okay, team in a new play, maybe that helps explain why teams were hesitant to do it in the past. We're going to get through all the trades. We're gonna talk Marshaun Lattimore going to the Commanders. That's fun. The zid Area Smith trade finally happened. We'll talk some winners and losers. Jordan rod Reeg is coming up later in the show. We'll see if the Rams press conference ends in time for her to join you. But we'll also preview the Thursday night game between the Bengals and the Ravens.
But since we're starting big picture, I think this is interesting because, first of all, he moved the trade deadline back, and when I joke about them becoming like the NBA, it just was a weird place the NFL was in for a long time. I thought that teams weren't trying to improve enough during the season. You only have so
many different ways to improve. I remember writing an article for the website when the Eagles and the Patriots played in the Super Bowl, using some facts that those were the two teams that had traded by far the most in the NFL during the Howie Roseman and Bill Belichick era, and then two pretty successful organizations, because you should be looking at every way to try to improve your team.
And now we move the trade deadline back you mentioned the cotton new and the thing that's crazy with all these trades, and going back to Marie Cooper and DeAndre Hopkins, is they're also cheap, Like, unless the prices start getting more expensive, why wouldn't you be trading for players for these prices, I've long since said. And John Schneider of this new wave, John Schneider was one of the ones that was really started to be and some of these didn't work out, by the way, the Percy Harvin trade
foremost amongst them. He was the one to say, I'll take the proverbial bird in the hand rather than the draft pick that I don't know what it's going to turn into. And I've said, you know, why wouldn't you give up a fifth round pick? Because fifth round picks are a coin flip as to whether that player is actually gonna make the opening day roster. Yeah, year one, Yeah, so right.
Away half of them, I mean, listen, sometimes practice squads and whatnot. Then you take it further and see how many of these guys pan out within the next three years versus you're getting a veteran you know what you're getting now, You're not gonna get them nearly as long as potentially if you hit on a fifth round pick.
But the numbers really tell you the value of if you're willing to move on or move that fifth round pick or sixth or seventh or whatnot, the value you're getting back immediately in the value that you know you're getting.
So I agree with you.
I like the fact that general managers has general general managers have become more aggressive. You've got the buyers in the sellers. And if the Cleveland Browns had their way, because they proposed this thing moving back a week, they proposed it moving back two weeks.
We would still let's get another week.
They're trying because their point was you'd moved it back a week with the eighteen game or eighteen week schedule. Now if you get a nineteen week schedule, moving back another like, we're still not caught up, is what they're saying to where they place.
We're only halfway through the season, some teams not even so.
Within the next queep back, you're gonna get more already on who's in and who's out too.
Yes, a couple things there. Number One, love doing this show with a real like TV professional. If you do happen to watch the YouTube like Garatfolo just can't go more than a second without making love with his eyes to the camera, Like because you're just a professional, whereas I'm like, I'm not. I'm just kind of sitting back here and like not even thinking it's you know it mean the audio media. But no, you're you're great at it. You're great at it. It's very natural. Number two, I
disagree with John Snider on his own assessment. The moment Percy Harvin returned that touchdown in the Super Bowl is one of the all time super Bowl moments I've ever been at. Okay, that alone made that.
A starfrad Yeah, what about when a Golden Tate pile drive him or was it Doug Baldwin the pile driver? No, I think them and one of got stuffed in a trash can Have you ever heard Mike Rob tell that story? Now, I don't know that he's ever told it on air. To be honest with you, let's hear that. No, you
gotta he's gotta tell you. Gotta have him on and have him tell the Percy Harvin story, and like Pete Carroll coming to him, Mike, Mike Rob, I need you know because this happened right before the team picture at the Super Bowl. So Golden Tate's got a black eye in the picture. It's amazing, and you could see like this, there are scowls on a bunch of faces. I've seen the picture before, but Mike Robs of the stories.
I need to hear it. But I stand by my assessment. The pop that was in the New York Super Bowl, right like pop in that stadium was It was one of maybe the best moment in Seahawks history. So I disagree with Josh Scheider. And then finally just on the picks, and then we'll get to all these trades. These teams value these picks so much at this time of year. Oh oh, I could never give up a fourth round conditional for a future Hall of Famer like DeAndre Hopkins
are divining. No, No, we couldn't possibly do that. We'll only give up a fifth to six pick swap. Oh no, we're not gonna improve our pass rush with a guy like Azizo Ojulari, for instance, who didn't get traded. Like, we're not gonna dare give up a fourth round pick. Then you get to draft Day and they're like, can I please move up six spots in the fifth round, like I'll give you next year's fourth and they're just giving them away like candy and it's nothing. So that's
that's annoying to me. I know why.
You know why, It's because I'm the best at drafting. Who am I? I'm every general manager that ever existed. They all think, well, I'm not gonna give it up because I know with a fourth round pick what I'm capable of doing. I'm gonna hit on that fourth round or so. But again, that's the old school way of thinking.
They've come off of that a little bit. And then when you get to draft day and they've had their eyes on these guys for months on end and they get a chance to get them, then it's like the immediate toy right in front of their face that I gotta have this guy, so I gotta move up. I mean, I remember an agent years ago as a fullback and he got somebody to jump.
It was a Cowboys.
They jump over somebody and that team was never gonna draft them, but he got them to jump just because then he could in the future say, well, you trade it up for him. It was like in the fifth or six round or something like that right, which is a great job by the agent because now you got something.
You like them this much.
You jumped another team theater, so you gotta sign them to an extension.
Or something like that. Yeah, like a Marcus Davenport situation. Speaking of which, let's get to the news. Let's start with the biggest trade of the day, the one that really gave us some than to anchor this show, with the Saints trade Marshan Lattimore, arguably the greatest cornerback to ever wear the Saints uniform. I'd have to go through a bit. I think it's a pretty safe bet and a twenty twenty five fifth round pick to the Commanders
for a third and fourth round pick. They also get a sixth in that deal, so really it was like a late round pick swap, but they get a third and a fourth for marsha On Lattimore. Of all these trades where almost nothing is changing hands for good players, this was actually a decent haul. I thought this made a lot of sense for both sides. I actually think
it says good things about the Saints moving forward. But for the Commanders, it's a move where you almost didn't expect them to be putting some chips in the middle of the table this season, just.
For anyone who just heard what you said and maybe is an Eagles fan growing up like me and thinks like no, Eric Allen is the best coin. But his best years were probably with the Eagles. I want to say, so, I just want to throw that out there, just to make sure.
Full time Pro bowler made the All Pro team. Oh he was a Pro Bowl or a bunch Yeah, Marsham Latimore Like, I'm just saying that. I'm just pretty strong, But.
I don't know if the I don't know if the basically he had to be in his best years with the Saints, in which case then Latimore would be the guy.
We'll start with the commander's end of this.
Yes, because you're now seeing and we've seen it repeatedly. If you are a team and you have a quarterback on a rookie deal, you go for it right because you know you're gonna have to pay him. Now, it's going to be by the time Jayden Daniels does his deal, seventy to eighty million dollars a year, whatever it's going to wind up being, I'm projecting it'll be certainly above sixty, which is where we are already are. That's going to hamstring your ability to do things elsewhere on the roster.
So the Commanders already feel like they're in that zone. Okay, maybe it's house money to a lot of us who didn't expect them to be where they are right now, and in their minds it's like, let's go right now, because you're also getting him.
I don't know how many years, two more years left, two more years? Yeah, only only quote Yeah, I think sixteen million dollars a year in base sally that that's good for a quality starting corner.
Now, if I'm Latimore's agent, hey, you just traded for him. He performed for you down the stretch this offseason, we're gonna have a conversation because we want a new deal whatever. That's a good problem to have if you're the Washington Commanders, I guess. But this is where you're in that zone of we've got a rookie quarterback on a rookie contract. We've got to strike while we possibly can allow and spread those resources out there. I give him credit for
doing it right now, I really do. It's a franchise right now that's got so many good vibes going on. The fan base is loving it, the players that have been I talked to Terry McLaurin after the game on Sunday, did an interview with him on the field after their seventh win of the season, and he.
Talked about I don't take these days for granted.
I thank God for the patience and the endurance to last through the times that weren't as sweet there. So you're sending a message to the locker room saying, we understand how long it's been since you've been competitive. We understand how you're feeling right now. We're in the thick of this and we're gonna do it the best we possible.
Yes, it's awesome because Latimore was the one guy now that Amari Cooper and DeAndre Hopkins already went that I thought could be an immediate, like big impact. There's some role players that are gonna help out. Marshall Lattimore when he played this year, maybe not like the best tackler in the world, but was great in coverage. He just hasn't played a lot, so he's gonna have to be
healthy down the stretch. The last handful of seasons, I believe he only had four hundred and ten snaps two seasons ago, six hundred and twenty one snaps last year. He's up to four fifteen already this year, but has been in and out a little bit with a hamstring injury. Didn't seem like he got along. He even said it to the media that he had a personal issue with Dennis Allen that they quieted down and figured out before
the season. Now Dennis Allen's gone and Marshaun Lattimore's gone, but you're getting the very end of what should be his prime if he can stay on the field. You're twenty eight twenty nine. He has a two million dollars roster bonus too, so it's eighteen million a year. But that's plenty good, and more than anything, it upgrades the worst position on their roster that they've been getting by. But suddenly you're replacing a negative at cornerback with a
good player. I love it because they had like extra picks and they've been very smart since Adam Peters got there.
And Emmanuel Forbes is not a big guy like that's been the problem. He's too slight, And now you're adding a guy who can play more physically, can play with emotion, can play the kind of ways that that Forbes hasn't been playing. I was with Steve Smith on Sunday at the game. We're doing pregame hits in the sideline and Forbes runs by and he goes, is that Forbes?
And I go, yeah, he goes.
He gives this look and he didn't say anything, but he gives this look like, man, I would.
He has withering looks. I would not want to be on the wrong side of a withering Steve Smith. His look was like, man, I would have eaten that guy alive. Almost like I can eat that guy alive right now.
Go get me a helmet and shoulder pads because he's got He's so slight, he's got twigs for legs, and I feel, I'm not trying to knock the kid. But they needed a bigger presence at the quarterback position, and you listen, it wasn't the greatest situation in New Orleans for Marshall Latimore the last couple years. You get into a place where the vibes are so good, and now you're with a competitive team after such a a disappointing week three through nine or whatever.
We're in now with the Saints in the.
Way that that fellow, all of a sudden, all of a sudden, that hamstring can feel.
A little bit better than a while for him. Since he's been on a good team.
You're playing energetically, you're feeling good about things. I think that's what the commanders are making on.
I think they're going to get good production out of him. It means the Saints only have one player left from that famous twenty seventeen draft class. You do you remember the players in this draft? But that's too much putting you on the spot. Eric McCoy, is he in the draft? Eric McCoy is not in that class. Latimore was the first one they thought they were. They thought they were getting Mahomes with that pick, and at least that's the story told, but they got Latimore.
Just stop because you're just very horrible. Just to be clear, I am horrible when it comes to remember which drafts.
Which. The only reason I know this is because I tweeted out earlier today and so I looked it up. Latimore, Well, Ryan Ramcheck was in there, Marcus Williams having a great career in the second round, Trey Hendrickson in the fourth round, Alvin Kamara in the third round all going in one draft. Alex Azeloni, who's had a nice career. Alka Dean Muhammad is the last one. That's the entire draft. Thomas was twenty sixteen. Don't act like I missed it by time.
I'm just saying you got it wrong here. So I actually think that's symbolic this Saints team is ready to turn the page. I thought this is very encouraging. We spent a lot of time talking about the Saints UH on our Monday night show, so we don't need to repeat it all here. But this shows me they're willing to take thirty six million dollars in dead cap money on the twenty twenty five books. That says to me, hey,
we actually are gonna be honest with ourselves. Finally we're gonna we're gonna rebuild because he's still one of their better players. They're taking They have sixty million dollars in dead money already next year, and they could have more if they get into there. It not dead not this much where it's dead cap money Latimore, Jamis, Michael Thomas, and Ryan Ramcheck. So they're taking the pain now instead of putting it off to late. Yeah.
But they're gonna we'll be doing the same thing we always do right before the start of the lead.
The Saints. Effy structured this the Saints. I disagree because I think they won't have the same guy running the team, the guys capable of prediction.
Uh, saving clips, save this clip right here, just my ear market right now. Hit a button, Just hit even if you don't really hit a button, just just humor me.
I'm just saying, if Mickey Loomis is not running the organization, and I don't know, these moves make me one.
If Vicky Loomis is not running, so you're saying he's out too. Yes, what's the dead money on that deal? To check on that? You know, the only general manager in the entire league in his contract year Joe.
Douglas only one. That's pretty crazy. Yeah, you're right, maybe Gaye Bentson wouldn't want to be paying the dead money on the front office. But I just think this actually is assignment, and who knows, it might have come down
from above. We've heard this in the past. In fact, that the Commanders last year it was pretty clear from ownership on down, even if the people there weren't staying, they were like trade trade guys and get what you can get, and they were able to use those picks to get good draft picks and feel comfortable to get Marshall Ladder. I think the same thing is happening here. They told they told the front office get some picks, good jump.
They've told the front office a few things in the last couple of weeks.
That's that's what we got on the Monday night show that that was maybe not the decision to get rid of dentis on. And again, I think when I put this out on the old Twitter, like just like that, this is a sign they're finally ready to rebuild all the Saints us. They're so happy they will they will live with a year of pain to just kind of move on and move forward. Well, walk into the studio
right now, By the way is Jordan Rodd. The camera's gonna stay on me, so don't feel awkward as you get into the seat, and we got to move on. We're going to talk about the next trade. This is just how we do it an NFL Daily Mike, you got your fancy TV shows where people aren't walking onto the set in the middle of the show. But we we just we want as much Jordan rod Rieg as we can on the show. So here she is.
That makes one person.
Okay, there we go, Oh make it too, I'm in let's talk Mike Williams to the Steelers fun trade on picked.
Yeah, started with a breakfast sandwich and ended with well, didn't end but Rogers taking the shot at him. Jordan, there she is in the three shot. A three shot in the business. What are we talking about Williams and breakfast sandwiches?
What do you mean the breakfast sandwich or what did he get one when he was on a free agent visit. Yeah, the fans were bringing him.
Somebody delivered a breakfast sandwich to him, saying, we've got the greatest breakfast sandwiches here.
Signed here.
So they did that, and then it ended with actually a terrible take by Ian Rappaport. What else is new saying that he's going to Pittsburgh where they have the best sandwiches.
Listen, was he thinking, like Primani bro, that's what he's.
Thinking, Yeah, they've got good sandwiches.
Don't go saying Pittsburgh has the best sandwiches because it's just not factually accurate.
But Philly, you're saying what.
All the places I've lived, Philly, North Jersey, Jersey Shore.
Little John's rosp about that. Wow.
I know, listen, you want to I'm going to defend my turf if you're going to start talking.
So I did one of the things I miss most. I think about it a lot on Sunday mornings about living in New York is the breakfast sand from odegas or whatever. So I just had one the other day. Was like, this is so good my mother.
My mother was visiting and she's she's I want to get a bagel from Acme from the from the supermarket. I go, you are six blocks away from like the best begels in the Hudson up there is like the best. Just go, I know, I'll go get You're not buying a bagel from Acme with that available, Mike Williams.
Yeah.
And and the deal uh that we thought was gonna get done immediately after the DeVante Adams deeal uh. Pittsburgh's been looking for that big body, number one type guy. I don't think he's still what he was earlier in his career, certainly getting healthier this year.
You got to give him the the ability to do.
That as well. And that's going to continue. It's going to continue to be a process. But I think this adds to them. Russ has been throwing the moon ball, talking to the receivers there, saying it just gives us a better shot, be because we're facing the ball, whereas the cornerbacks got his back to us. It just makes me so now you've got a guy that can go up and get it and has got that big wingspan and that big catch radius, as they'd like to say.
I like the fit here. I really do.
It's a huge reason why we talked about a lot of these sort of like receiver thirsty teams that were combing the market the way that they were. Someone who draws attention away from other people and other facets, other elements of the scheme and the game plan in order to open those things up. And then once those things start to draw attention, then you hit that guy on a moonball. And I like the fit here. It was really no secret, and Mike you did some great reporting
on this. You know there were Steelers were for quite some time wanting to bring in a receiver, and I think we're pretty thorough in the job they did and kind of checking to see who was available.
I guess they didn't want Deontay Johnson back because he wouldn't have cost even this much a fifth round pick, But that says a lot I guess about that relationship. I watched the Aaron Rodgers McAfee reaction to Mike Williams. He was live on air when Mike Williams got traded, and then they asked them about it, and Aaron Rodgers politically hinted at what you just said, which is not
the same Mike Williams. Maybe that it's been tough coming off the torn acl He never was like the fastest of receivers in the first place, so it might take sometimes till a year or two to get all that back. But if there ever was going to be a spot where he could make some impact, it would be with the Steelers, who could use a big body receiver down the field other than George Pickens and Russell Wilson's got to throw that thing up there, so that should be
fun to watch. They also made another trade today, Mike. They brought in Preston Smith. I was surprised by this one. Why do you love it?
Because I go back to the when I covered the Giants the early of course he days with the general manager. They drafted Matthias Kiwanuka and Justin Tuckan back to back years when they already had Ocumanyora and Michael Strahan and his statement that we used over and over you can never have enough pass rushers.
Well, this is the case right now.
And I go back to I compare this kind of what we talk with the commanders with the rookie contract. They've got Russell Wilson on the veteran minimum deal right now, so they were able to take on the money that Preston Smith is owed the rest of the season here to get him in with TJ.
Watt.
With Alex high Smith, you don't play. You don't just have two pass rushers. You can add a third and you give you a flexibility. And Highsmith's been banged up this year as well.
He might be a fourth. Nate Herberg is a really but four is good. There you go, see, there's fours. That's a good number.
I think he is the fourth, but also like Herbig, they might be managing him a little bit. He's had some issues with the hamstring, so they might be managing him a little bit, especially if they think they're going to really make a push. So having four guys, including one who they think can come off the bench, this might be a strategy move for them in terms of not just bringing another guy for you know, in the rotation, but also in case of soft tissue, injury management or
any number of things. Yeah, to preserve and it's almost like spelling certain guys to maximize their reps once you do get in those rush situations and potentially you know, December and they hope the playoffs.
Well.
One of the things that drives me crazy about the Steelers is they never let TJ. Watt off the field, and if you watch those games, he's always gassed and a little not at his best. Late in the fourth quarter of the he makes these big plays, but a lot of times like he needs a blow late in the game. So I love it. It's like the Eagles they have, you know, they always try to have four pass rushers, get fourth bat four paster and it didn't cost much. They was for a seventh round pick. The
Packers defense has been a little weird this year. Most of their pass rushers have less production than they have had in the past. It's a different scheme. He probably just wasn't a scheme fit. Let's talk about another former Packers pass rusher. It's Zadarius Smith. He's been to a few teams since and now he's going to another one, going to the Lions. It ends up costing the Lions a fifth and a sixth round pick, although they get a seventh back, so it's really a fifth and a
you know, late day three pick swap. Not a lot for Zadarius Smith. You pay him. I think they're paying him what's left of his contract, which is quite half. It's just this year, but you know he has a big bas salary, but they kind of needed this mic.
I'd have to check on that. I remember the financials on that one. That feels like it happened three days ago, and it was earlier this morning.
So it's just well Florio did sort of a half report on Sunday, so maybe that's why you're thinking it feels like three days ago. I know, you don't maybe pay attention to the other reporters. But he something where he was like gonna happen. He said, it's like it's expected probably or something.
Yeah, which, yeah, this was It's like they and you could see it's funny when you see that all on the screen, you could see how it came together. It's like, well, we're not just gonna do the fifth round?
Well what if we do that? Okay, but then we want.
This back because we don't want to lose it, and it's like, okay, all that just gets thrown up on the screen there. It's like, that's how it finally came together. So that's what the last couple of the last couple of days were really all about, and finalizing this one. It makes a lot of sense once it became clear a Max Crosby, Miles Garrett, like, those guys were untouchable.
They weren't going anywhere. They never were. Zadarius Smith then became the best next possible option for the Lions, and he fits so well in my mind, I don't even want to say, like Aiden Hutchinson replace and nothing about that.
You lose Aiden Hudgeon. You just do the best you can at this point.
But he can give you a little pass rush, he can play I guess runn He's got a ton of experience.
They're trying to replace him in the aggregate, which again still isn't replacing him. But you know when you saw Dan Campbell, like, you know, skipping in front of the podium a little bit like doing a little like fun happy dance. This was a while ago, and asked about whether they're going to bring in a pass rusher.
I did think of you, Mike, because I was like, how early.
It's maybe inside baseball question that you don't necessarily have to answer, but how early in this process did this become so obvious to you that this was going to be not just happen, but be like the fit just this tier of guys too, Because you know, you've got like Mark Davis sending emails saying we're not trading Maxic. You know, you have all of these things that are public, but you know when a certain tier is unreachable and then you're kind of targeting a cluster of players.
Let me which part that Zadaris was going to the Lions or that those guys were untouchable both.
That he will not necessarily specifically, but that they were getting someone that cluster of Yeah, you start the pieces together, you really have to.
That's something that I've really learned over the last couple of years is I used to wait for like people to tell me and then you go, oh, wait, but I heard this person say that, and I guess I thought that there was still another step, or you start to you got to make the leap. At some point you start to hear these like non denial denials basically, and you go, oh, this is happening. Okay, Like, you know, who's really good at that? Ian rapport tremendous, unbelievable at
putting in the pieces together. But I'll be like, what this person said that. He's like, yeah, that means it's getting done. I'm like no, no, no, but still got no, no, it's done. It's and then it winds up happening. You're like, whoa, Okay, so you almost not that you're pushing it over the line like it's already done. You have to hear what people are saying and realize you have to have a you know, personnel person to reporter translation book.
Now, I don't want to get too deep into it or impune Ian's character, but is there a chance that it's like Game recognizes Game. He can see the lies and the obfuscations for what they are because he's good at that, whereas you're like, you know, you're just a better person. I don't expect the Lion quite as much. Exactly right, That's exactly right. You know, I believe in people.
I think this is a great fit.
By the way, he's got the same pressure, so he's not you know, he's not the same as he used to be necessarily, but I think he's a really good fit in this defensive scheme change. The scenery is always good, you know, for a player who's bounced around a couple of times.
He's got the same pressure rate as Khalil Mack right now.
And he hates the Packers more even more than Lions. He really hates the weird ending. Yes, and he had some revenge games already because he did join the Vikings for a year before going to the Browns.
But yeah, but back to answering your question, Jordan, this when when I started to have conversations with people not even involving or not even involved with the Lions or Zadarius Smith, and I mentioned him, they go, oh, yeah, well, the he's going to the lights right like, and so everybody around it started to have these They they knew it was going to happen. You never heard it necessarily
directly from the Lions or from Smith. Smith's camp and you go enough people around it are saying that it's getting done, so that must be getting and you go, okay with the next couple of Yeah, it's gonna happen in the next couple of days.
And it happened early this morning.
I would just love to do a whole show about like what your life is like.
I know, this is why we have in the studio. Let's take a quick break and then we'll wrap up all the trades and maybe throw out a few winners and losers. Michael move on to his seventeenth show of the day back in a second back on NFL Daily when I was talking about watching you six in the morning already on my television, Mike.
That's good context that he was on your television when you watching him.
Yes this morning. See you missed the start of the show, Jordan like joining in the conversation midway. We're ruining us now. I think you guys were talking about this Jonathan Mingo trade. Wasn't that one of the first ones of the day to happen And people were just saying that, why are the Cowboys making a trade again? They actually gave up a fourth round pick to get Jonathan Mingo and a seventh weird.
Yeah, very A lot of other teams thought it was weird too. If it pans out, who cares, right, I see, I don't want to sit here and bash a team for making after we just said like teams should be willing to kind of you know, so if you feel this.
Strong and in the fourth round pick is not a crazy everyone's making this out to be like, oh, they got robbed here. They gave up the same as you know, the Chiefs gave up for DeAndre Hopkins, which is true that it is a fair point that they maybe should have said something less, but we're talking about the fourth fifth. I think the problem is Mingo just has really poor tape at the NFL level, And Jerry Jones even said publicly, well, we loved him coming out of college. We love the tape.
And so that's I always hear that reasoning from NFL teams of why you make a move, Well, we loved his college tape, Well, how about the NFL tape? Isn't that way a lot more like if he's coming out in the draft now like he obviously is a very different evaluation because he struggled to get open as a pro.
It is tough tape and large portions also though, like it seems to me like all over the league, just subtle shots being taken at the state of the Panthers over the last couple of years, like from Sean Payton not so subtle too. Okay, well we're gonna throw that out. We're looking at college specifically. You actually hit it on the head when with something you said earlier, Mike pan out. So to me, what I think we first have to define what does that mean if you're the Cowboys?
How does this pan out?
Like?
What makes it successful for me?
Because of Dak's situation, it's looking at potentially panning out next year, getting him in your building ahead of time, redeveloping him from the situation that he's previously in, re calibrating some of the tools that they liked, apparently coming out of.
College right too. By the way, I was kind.
Of sort of hitting the hitting the reset button. This to me like screams not at all something for this year. In the slightest it screams like, get Dak a second weapon next year, because we don't know how long he's going to be on the shelf with the hamstring pan out.
To me, I'd say pass fail if they sign him to another contract. And that's part of it the financials here, because you're getting him for two more years under contract, right, So anybody who's comparing this now to let's say Deontay Johnson, it's not a fair comparison because Johnson you're getting as a rental and then you have to decide you may have to pay him twenty million dollars a year as
a free agent at the end of the season. You don't have to make that decision with Mingo, So that fourth front pick, I would just This is the problem with deadline day is I still haven't had a chance to kind of reset and go over some of this stuff. I want to find out how this conversation happened, Like if that four was a five, they still have been able to do this deal.
Could they have gotten for a fifth round pick?
You never really know you're playing poker, So I need to know if the Panthers are telling them it's not going to get it done, we already have a fifth plus on the table or something like that, it's got to be a four. And if that's the case, I'd love to know who the five was, because I didn't sense a lot of people that were like, oh, yeah, we were in on him too, so they must have been around a fifth.
I'm not getting a lot of that right now.
And if the Panthers played poker here and got more than they should have gotten, good job, Dan Morgan.
Greg odds are that this is the move made in advance so that Jerry Jones can point to it in like deep summer next year when everyone's like losing their minds over the fact that they haven't done anything to Okay, and he's like, oh, we did this ahead.
Of the deadline that was for this year. What are the odds man?
Yeah, when Trey Lance is throwing to Jonathan Mingo wide Receiver two next year, it kind of reminds me of that trade.
In fact that Dak Prescott is out for at least four weeks and Trey Lance isn't starting.
But Jerry Jones hinted on that same radio show that Trelians might be starting or Tralians might be involved. Who knows if he's the one should be in No, like it should be. I guess he's down. If it's not gonna go well, if Cooper Rush is a pretty good backup that if he's that much worse than Cooper Rush, Like, I get it, you have a whole group of people to deal with. I would say success would be forget another contract because he's only in the second year of
his rookie contract. If he's their third or even fourth receiver in twenty and twenty six, Like, if he's still there and he's a rotational player for him, then that's a success. You're only giving up a fourth round pick. If he's getting five hundred six hundred yards a year or something like that, Like, that's a success. But you know, considering what's happened in Carolina, that's not guaranteed. Yeah, we mentioned, Uh,
you just mentioned Dak Prescott. He's likely headed to injured reserve according to Jerry Jones, So any hope that he could be back in the next couple of weeks is basically gone. We don't need to stick on that. We've talked about Dak Prescott enough. Uh, that's pretty much it for the trades that struck my fancy. We had a
Khalil Davis trade to San Francisco. There were a total of eighteen trades throughout the trade deadline, period, and then you mentioned eight today, but that pretty much wraps up.
Eighteen eighteen from the start of the regular season that I believe that's what which I think the record was twenty two from that mistaken Okay, so we're doing it.
Short WESFL short of.
I think thirteen was the high watermark the last couple of years for the last day, and our friends at NFL Research gave it to us.
Do you helping us out because we had the Cam Robinson trade, we had the Tredevious White trade. Actually, well we will mention that quickly that the Ravens pick got him up. Well, I look this up. Didn't have a lot of playing time for the Rams and just hoping, you know, to have some depth there. The official number from the Research Department most players traded since nineteen ninety five was night was in twenty twenty two, there was
twenty two teams to twenty two players. This is the third most nineteen players, so pretty good twenty nineteen at twenty one players. A couple of little other items before we do a couple of winners and losers. Norv Turner is joining the Raiders' staff, which is amazing. He's the senior advisor. His son Scott Turner, who was in Carolina, is gonna be the offensive coordinator. Let's actually take a look too. If you're watching on YouTube for the Jimmy Johnson quote
retweet of my tweet. If I have a chance to self promote, I'm going to. I learned today that Jimmy Johnson follows me on Twitter and he quote retweeted me. So that was really exciting. He says, Norv is one of the best. We got Norv Turner Mike back in an NFL building time out. Did you then retweet Jimmy retweeting you. I did. Yeah, you gotta do that.
You gotta do that, like, hey, look this famous person just retweeted me, Like people do that all the time when Mahomes retweets him, which uh Patrick, Oh, I could.
Go one of these days, buddy, I couldn't go even further. I was shocked by this. Never met Jimmy Johnson, No, you know, relationship there. He only followed twenty nine people on Twitter. Wow, you I'm one of them. Yep, I'm one of them. Here are some others. Mario Christobal okay, the head coach, yep, Dave wantstat all right, he's an ex sensing a theme here, Tony Gonzalez. I'm not going to read them all because I don't want to blow it.
Audios Jason Taylor. I'm just saying that these are the types of class of people I'm with you, like, give me Chrissa Thompson, Okay, okay, Rob Wriggle, a lot of a lot of co workers, Kurt Menafie, I'm trying to figure out where you come in. Keep going, Stan Marino, did he perhaps Michael Strahan for a coworker of No No, Michael straighthand Troy Aikman, and then me and Peter King, like the two titans of NFL reporting and analysis. Thank you for you. Thank you, Jimmy Johnson. Good for you.
This is the opposite of the early days of Twitter when Tay Diggs followed me and I was like, oh my god, ty Diggs followed me and then looked up and saw he was following one hundred thousand people.
That is the opposite of that, right, No Schrager, who he who he works with?
That's interesting and you'd think like, oh, maybe it was a slip of the thumb, but the fact that he retweeted you acknowledged, like, I follow this dude and here's some information that I appreciate.
I love it he runs his account.
Yes, because of if you follow who like you know, it's not a lot of posts, and.
But this was worth it. This was his time to weigh in and that's a.
Great I love it. I love this staff. By the way, Marv Lewis is on this staff, Joe Philbin is on this staff, Rob Ryan is on this staff. Tom uh I'm bringing them all together. If Tom Kaughlin, yeah, is this fun North Turner under I don't know if he's underrated, but he's just forgotten at this point from like New fans, but a hell of an offensive coordinator deep into his career.
I've had great conversations with him. He's been around when Scott's been coaching games and I've had a chance to talk to him, and I'm like, this guy's just a great offensive mine. I wrote a story for the Super Bowl Game program last year. I'm already forgetting what the
topic was, but I talked to Norv about it. I think it was the style of quarterbacks in that have that have won Super Bowls, and I talked to him about about Troy It was just amazing just to have that conversation with him and just thinking to myself, like, this guy's got good football left. I felt that way about Kevin Gilbride when he retired. I'm like, this guys still could be a good UH coach.
But I guess who knows? He might be running the Raiders next year with head coach Scott Turner. Like crazier things have happened with that organization.
You think that's where uh A new minority owner Tom Brady wants to go.
I think he's you know, well, that's a that's a fair point. Uh. Finally, the Colts, reportedly, according to Stephen Holder of ESPN, turned down teams calling about Anthony Richardson, saying he's totally off the table. Weren't listening. I thought the offers were that great right now, but it makes sense it would it would be weird.
I I don't even know that they were. It got to the point of offers. But the Colts are trying to not trying to. They're they're making it clear that they still believe in Anthony richards Although didn't I may have seen this and I may have misread this. Did Shane Stikeen say that Joe Flecko was still the for the rest of the season. He did again, Yes, but I don't for the rest of the season.
That's what he said. Again. Yes, how many points are they score on up? I don't believe him because if they keep scoring three points then he won't be but he's zero. It's hard to say, Well, it's week to week. I get it. That's an unstable public way to approach things.
Yeah, there are two benefits of this, you know, being out there of first of all teams, certainly if someone is benched effectively or needs more development time whatever, Yeah, you got to call the team like of course you.
Have to at least check, like, hey, what's up with this guy? Kind of a thing.
I mean, there's some there's crazier calls than this that are happening around the league for star players, for quarterbacks at any given point.
Right, but also it's right.
Like joining forces with Tom Brady when you're Sean Payton and coaching the Saints, joining forces with Tom Brady who was still an active player with the Dolphins. That kind of crazy, Like yes, like nothing, they'll be crazier than that, and that actually happened.
Go ahead, Sarah like best sandwiches in Pittsburgh.
Kind of crazy, right, But I think that that this all also is a really good thing for the Colts to have out there as well, because it does show, like to your point, Mike, it does show that this is we're definitively no, like we're not moving him, kind
of similar to Bryce Young too. You heard that there was some interest in him as well, and certainly people are going to call to see if you know, first round guys, top five picks are available, and of course you're going to do that, and if they're if something pops, then it pops. But in this case, super unlikely, and it's good for the Colts to have it out there, being like, no, this is our guy going forward. We invested in him, and it's it's very good for everyone to have that out.
I'm as I'm looking at this, pretend you're a GM Jordan Gret Like, Hey, Mike, they've interviewed women in recent years.
You could too. We're getting there. I don't have to take it personally, Mike. It is a fact, just that it could never happened. You know, It's fine. Why don't you be a trailblazer? Huh?
The hell was I asking you, Oh, what pretend you're making it offer for Anthony Richards What is it pretend you're making it off for trying to get Anthony Richardson away from the call?
Why? What is it like?
What's what in your mind trying to make a fair offer to me? Chris Ballard, Anthony Richards only draft Capital.
I'm also trying to think what team like there's only a few teams that this could But to be clear, I have no idea. Maybe the New York Giants. If I'm in the New York Giants. Yeah, yeah, I would give you a second round pick. That done.
Okay, Yeah, I'd give you a give you a second round pick that could turn into don't.
Give them more.
He just said, we're prepared to offer you all the free coffee.
Yeah, yeah, I I think he could. I in the past, guys who haven't worked out in the first spot getting second. Josh Rosen got a second round pick. I believe a hell it was a swap?
Was it?
It was like a late second But there's been there's been some guys who have not worked out that's still get you know, a good.
Trade challenge on that, and I think it was a swap. I think it was like sliding down in the second round if I'm not mistaken.
But I also want to just make it clear I still believe in Anthony Richardson. I just think the fuel development time, which they knew going into it and should have managed things different.
Well, you know, and I think Melissa Stark kind of report about this during the game about how he's you know, he's been, he was there, he's cheer and he was locked in and all this stuff, and that's great. Better not just be for show, because that's what he's got to do. He's got to be involved. He's got to be locked in, he's got to be taking mental notes. He's got to be watching everything that Joe Flacco does, even if they're scoring zero points, just his process and
how he goes about things. I was stalling long enough for Greag to get his answer.
We got it now. Yeah, not only was it not a pick shop, they gave up more than a second round pick. They gave up a second and a fifth. It was the sixty second overall selection. No, the hell with that? Give me the full No, that's a pen that's it.
No, I see, now you're gonna have it was definitely a slide down.
It was curious and that GM is still Chris Greer, still running the team, Chris gears so he survived that trade all right, quickly some winners. He's moving on. Before we have any winners and losers here, before we get going, I'm gonna of just just rapid fire. You can throw out anyone for first, the Chiefs in.
The hop Come on, we watched the game, right, come on, that's great.
Let's throw up the DeAndre Hopkins tweet that he sent out on Tuesday.
I hold it your hard strings there he sent.
Out the Randy Moss Tom Brady hugging each other. Oh, I love that. Now, Randy Moss was an off season trade, but it was for a fifth round pick, so some similarities there. Let's go now.
Greg might need a minute, so I guess I will carry the ship.
I don't need a minute. Any anyone stand out to you as a winner? Yeah?
I was going to pick the Chiefs as well as a winner. I also, you know, I like you know what the Cardinals did just it wasn't a huge move, but getting Baron Browning and just seeing if he's a fit. Guys from that coaching tree have often connected with, you know, kind of spare outside linebackers. This is sort of a Fangio thing. Get your extra outside linebacker and turn them
into a situational rusher, an efficient rusher. You can tell that that's sort of the pattern that that Jonathan Gannon's trying.
To follow here. So I liked it. I thought it was kind of subtle, but I like that move.
The question is who won the trade? There any anyone? While I was completely wrong? Yeah, you're right, they got there. I mean we've kind of moved on established that. No, not that we've moved on more that you don't remember draft picks either.
I don't remember anything involving the draft. I apparently I just hold it for a little bit and then I move on healthy.
Actually it's really healthy to.
You Dadarius Smith, or he would I'll throw out a win. He's just a personal one.
Yeah.
To go from the Browns to the Lions, the most exciting team in the NFL, maybe going.
You know, the Steelers are interesting to me. There were two moves that really makes a lot of sense for them. At what point do we go from Well, here's Mike tom and extending his streak of winning seasons or non losing seasons to seam to contender.
Trying to win.
Mike, it's a great point because it's like he's going from they're going from stable to pushing, right, Yeah, that's what these moves say to me. No, it's not like you got you know the receiver who still is you know, looks like the former version of himself, and maybe he could get some of that back and that'd be great for him because it seems like he kind of went through a lot up in New York recently on a personal level with teammates and then also bringing in that
rotational rusher. This is a team that's like actually thinks that it can push harder than even or median or just that you know, not losing record like they actually seem like they're they're pushing here, which I think is a vibe.
I thought you were going to say, when is Mike Tom I'm going to start taking some heat for not winning any playoff games, So I can tell you locally, they're they're a little sick of as much like there is a group a group of the fan base it's like we're sick of being the nine and eight team. So it's good they're trying to, yeah, be better.
I made the point on Good Morning Football this morning that I think they're dangerous because their coaching staff is so good right now and what they've been able to do, like it's it's one thing for Mike tom and to go into the room and make the gutsy call and no, he's on an island and say we're starting Russell Wilson. I don't care anybody in this room agrees with me or not. And then it's another thing for that coaching
staff to then say, all right, he's the boss. We got to do it, and then come up with the best possible game plans to get this guy moving in the right direction and limiting his mistakes, which is a big part of what they've been doing, and not letting him start to try to do too much. And Danny Smith and Terrell Austin, who I'm old enough to remember Terrell Austin being a hot head coaching candidate. Maybe it's
time to start mentioning that again. I just feel like from a coaching staff perspective, the question was who is the biggest threat to the Chiefs, And I'm thinking on any given day team that coaching staff can get that team ready to play against anybody the way that they've been coaching.
Oh I like that take, and I like I think the Commander is as an organization our winners because an even from an ownership level, they made them trade the picks a year ago. They had a vision of getting the right guy in the building. They get Scott Peters into the building. Now they have a surplus of picks and rookies. They feel like, hey, this is actually a time to move, and they make a move that's a long term plan already turning into a shorter term plan.
And they acted and they got a good play. We're winners. We got Mike Garafolo in the studio, we got a lot of trades. I'm gonna go just a few losers. Ravens defense didn't add anyone. I was kind of hoping they would add someone in the secondary. Chargers didn't add anyone. I don't know if they know what I didn't do it for the Ravens. Oh my bad.
You meant pass rush though, I think, right, yeah, you wanted to rush.
I met more of an impact player. But that's fair. That was that wasn't nice to me, as he's o Jelari. He's still with the Giants. He could have been like Zadarius Smith, going to like a great team.
But I don't think he's upset about that though. Okay, because Dexter Lawrence is tearing it up. You've got Cavon Thibodeau coming back, you got Brian Burns coming back. He could then not receive as much attention pad the stats get into the offseason.
I think we're gonna be sitting here in March. Maybe I'll be sitting here, Maybe I'll be home.
I don't know, haven't decided where I'm gonna do free agency from, but maybe we'll be sitting somewhere and saying that as he's o jaalari is this year is like whoa.
That guy got that kind of money.
I think it could be big money for Azizo Julari, and I think staying with the Giants could actually help him.
Great point. That is why you are the insider getting Mike Garafalo out of here. Appreciate you, Jordan. You will be back with me after the break and we're going to talk about a great TNF game. Ravens and Bankers back on NFL Daily with my friend Jordan Rodrigue of the Athletic It is time for our TNF preview, presented by Prime Video. A TNF game. It's been on my
radar since the very beginning of the season. Now, that's partly because I wanted to make sure I got the best booking possible for the TNF recap, and I did. I locked down Nick Westling early, but also just because these two teams only play awesome games. They already played one awesome game this season. Jordan, And Yeah, the Bengals record isn't as good as you would expect at this point of the season. Frankly, neither's the Ravens for how good a team they are. That actually makes the game
bigger for the Cincinnati Bengals. They kind of need this one in Baltimore.
The stakes are so high for a Cincinnati Bengals team trying to, like once and for all this season, right the ship and really start to put things together, and also for a Ravens team trying to just dominate people to establish that we know how to win in November and keep rolling that wagon all the way into the postseason. There's maybe some very sneaky MVP dialogue. Yeah, we're on the line as well. I am so heck and fired up for this game.
Greg, Oh my god, I am too. Al Kirk, I better not even ring it now, come on like a minute of apathy or complaining no matter how long this game is going. But these two guys deliver. Look last time, Yeah, forty one to thirty eight. Back in Week six, Burrow had five touchdowns in that game, almost four hundred yards. Lamar had four touchdowns through the air in that game, three hundre forty eight yards. And it's funny because I see the Ravens as they're obviously a super Bowl contender.
Maybe that's still the super Bowl favorite in the AFC, even if they don't have home field. And yet if they lost this game, which would be totally understandable a division rival you split games, they'd be at six and four. Who knows what's gonna happen with this Steelers team and they're kind of in the miras. So where do you want to start? Just offensive defensive matchups because Lamar versus this Bengals defense on paper is probably the biggest mismatch of the game. Do you disagree? Yeah?
I mean, I trust Lamar Jackson and this Ravens offense far more than I trust what's been a really wobbly good decent to good against bad teams. Bengals defense too, sometimes looks like they're putting things together, also kind of seeming like they're aging out a little bit too quickly. Yeah, this is going to be super interesting because right now Lamar Jackson's at a sixty eight point two completion percent and she's playing lights out and including some extremely tough
thrown stars of structure. But it's all clicking between himself and Todd Mounkin, the offensive coordinator, and his receivers, and in that scheme, it's everyone's like eating and everyone's benefiting. Derrick Henry obviously just dominating people already over at one
thousand yards this season. Everything is starting to feel like it clicks together against a Bengals defense that just we just don't know who they are week over week, and the scheme itself and Lamar's ability and the receivers and Dereck Henry widening things out, making people play differently. Lamar Jackson has targeted a wide open receiver on thirty two point eight percent of his pass attempts the season, second highest in the NFL.
That's gonna be tough.
Who's higher. I'm shocked is Jared goff to be? Yeah, it's this is a total guests, I'm just thinking of what offense could be run better. It's no slight obviously to goffer Lamar, and I think it really hit home last week Vance Joseph admitted he said it out loud. We we wanted to force them to pass because you're
just picking your poison. And so it's why this Derrick Henry Lamar combination is so mutually beneficial that it's wonderful that a team would actually have to feel like they have to sell out to stop the run, which I get it, but also that's that's not a great idea. That's pretty much what we saw actually in the in the first matchup. I went back and checked some of my notes for that that game too, and the Bengals did blitz a lot, which I was surprised, and they
did get a lot of pressure on Lamar. Jackson tried to get the ball out of his hand, and that's just that's just not working. There's no perfect way to attack Lamar right now or this team, because he's better against zone than he used to be. You saw that a week ago against against Denver. He just the game has slowed down for him. He's like he's like in the matrix right now, like everything is just in absolute
slow motion. But I'm the other way. I actually, as crazy as it is, as bad as the Bengals are defending the run, if you were trying to make a choice, I'd rather die slowly against the Ravens and just see if we can bow up and maybe just get them into some third down situations, because county on Lamar to not beat you through the air is dumb. Here's a stat and then I'll hand it off to you. This is a lot on Lamar, but FTN where Aaron Shatz works, Yeah,
where there's dvoaight. They also have you know, defensive yards above you know average, you know, adjusted for the defenses they've played. Lamar is at one and fourteen yards for the season above average. The next closest quarterback is actually Jade Daniels at six seventy six. The gap between Lamar number one and Jayden Daniels number two is the same as the gap between Jayde and Daniels number two and the sixteenth best quarterback in the league. So that like
and that's not even counting his running ability. So that's just how good this offense is. Right now, they're the eighth best offense through nine weeks in all the years that they've measured it over at FTN two. So it's like, I don't know, I'd rather die slowly.
Personally you mentioned, I mean, yeah, yeah, in.
Life, in life quickly, but on the football field slowly, well.
Hopefully quickly, but over a long period of time. You know, be on the planet for a long time. Greg, Please don't put that on the universe.
Yeah.
So, but I think, yes, you want to try to make them at least see what happens if you try to make them run, because like I said before, it's just clicking for this passing attack in ways that even struggled a little bit prior to the start of the season. And that's only going to get more cohesive. They're only going to get more reps and better reps for each other.
But and where I think you might have a little bit of an argument to a case to make for the Bengals defense, there is even though they've been really erratic and just they're number twenty five in DVOA for a reason, right, But they're not missing a ton of
tackles on the first and second level. Now, if that is Derrick Henry enters the picture like you know the you know, like you know that you know that meme of like big bird kicking down the door, Like if Derrick Henry enters your life in such fashion, I don't know if you're not missing tackles in that way, particularly when we see some of the stuff they did at the beginning of the year with Lamar running the ball
as well and that misdirection. So it's just so hard to stop this team and to pick which one is going to hurt the least.
Right, because I remember in that first game, I actually thought they had some of the run pass option plays defended pretty well and they would still get six yards.
You know, it's like still staying ahead of the down, Right.
There were sometimes where I thought Lamar Jackson made the wrong read. That that was one of the games where it really clicked, like how they've caught the cheek os where he actually made the wrong read. He should have kept the ball or he should have handed it off, and it is still getting five yards even if everyone's in good position. If you want to blitz them like they did the first time around, and I doubt they'll run the same game plan because that's not what Lou
and Rumo is going to do. Like Justice Hill is a very valuable player in this offense. They killed the Broncos on a couple times that they sent pressure here and then they let him out of the back field as a little just outlet for Lamar Jackson. There's just a lot of ways that they're going to beat you. The pass rush is a big concern for the Bengals. It's really Trey Hendrickson and not much else, and the Ravens have been surprisingly good as a pass protection unit
all season. Ronnie Stanley having a nice season. On the flip side, Are you a little worried and we don't know if Orlando Brown is available for this game, that Cody Ford and a Marius Mims could be the starting tackles for Joe Burrow in this game.
I mean, I think that you could see that they were a little worried about some of the ways that their pass protection was starting to break down a little bit because they were trying to play in heavier personnel
over the last couple of weeks. They were trying to do different things that you don't always see from a Zach Taylor offense to get just a little bit more help in different ways, not only get more eligibles on the field for Joe Burrow, but also chipping when you need to and just you know, getting But they're gonna have an issue with that because Eric all the tight end that they really really liked torn acl he was Paul at the Athletic was writing about how he was
one of the reasons why they could feel more comfortable just adding extra protection and extra things. You know, he's gonna Joe Burrow is playing at an otherworldly, unreal level.
Greg.
It kind of feels like he forced himself to go to that place a little bit, right, Well.
Yeah, it's maybe a dark place, but it's a place that has led to a lot of production. Let's actually listen to Joe Burrow talking about Yeah, he just isn't necessarily happy even after a five touchdown performance.
Yeah, I think just how the season has gone, knowing knowing what's ahead of us, knowing what we're gonna have to do to get back into this. You know, one win isn't gonna make or break our season. So you know, I'm going to strive for perfection every every day and every game. So until that happens, what was there to.
Be happy about. Hey, look, he just wasn't happy. I love that They asked him about that on Wednesday and he was like, oh, I guess I should I should work.
On that out pleasen't remember it.
Yeah, He's like, I didn't know that I was making a face like that. I guess I should worry about my body language a little more. But they also asked him about the Khalil Herbert trade, which let's talk about quickly here, and they just said, I'm glad we went out and tried to get better. This very stone face
is like, we need to get better. I wasn't expecting the Bengals to make a lot of moves at the trade deadline, though I did like that they tried to improve their backfield because Zach Moss is expected to miss the rest of the season. So that's a lot to ask of Chase Brown to be their only, you know, running back there and Kleio Herbert can give them a little bit of a hammer. They're going to need to be able to run the ball. If T Higgins is not available for this game, I have a feeling he is.
I don't know, I don't know anything. But in a scenario where they were maybe trying to push him to play last week or not, and you got two games in five days, this is the game that you save T Higgins for because you mentioned it now, Eric All leaving extra guys in protection for protection. Suddenly that receiver group it's a big fallof Mike Gasicki has more yards this season and it's actually played great than T Higgins, which is crazy.
Yeah, to your.
Point, yes, on T Higgins, if he's going to be ready to go, like this has got to be the game to be ready to go. Joe Burrow wanted to circle back on that. Yeah, because a couple of weeks ago, I was joking around saying like, oh man, you know he's in a really dark place because he was quiet. He's totally like in this silent rage and his press conference like he was he was very quiet and like low tone, and you could tell he was just internally seething. And I saw that and I was like, he's gonna
snap one of these days. He's gonna snap. And then like the serial killer ViBe's gonna just come out of him.
And it did.
And you watch that game and you watch how he was on the sideline and how he was talking around like Jermaine Burton at a certain point, who was a scratch because he missed practice on Saturday. So back to the point of the pass catchers, like you're seeing him try to work with other guys, get other guys open.
You know, obviously Jamar is gonna be who Jamar is.
But Mikeasicki has stepped up in certain ways, particularly when the Bengals are attacking the seam, and I think that actually could quietly be a big difference in this game because we know that attention is going to go towards the you know, the big name receiver slash receivers if t Higgins can play. But Mike Kasicki, you know, with the hundred yards game last week, I think we'll see more of him because the Ravens passing defense, which has let them down a lot.
And yes they traded for Trey White.
I don't expect him to be a huge part of that secondary right away, if you know, if even for the long term, just coming off the Achilles, but good depth just in case. But the Ravens have allowed those second most yards per attempt and the second most EPAM passes in the seams this season, and it's it's interesting because Joe Burrow targets those seaman those seam routes at
the third highest rate in the NFL. So I do think this could quietly be Joe Burrow, Oh, Mike Gasicki continuation of what they did last week.
Kasiki keeps making incredibly athletic, improbable catches.
Just like he did at Penn State.
Joe Burrow, just like he did for that one season in Miami where he was just next level and he got paid for it. And I'm happy that he did, and I'm happy that he ended up in a place like Cincinnati because we just would have never known that Mike Kasiki still had this in him. And I think Joe Burrow is just feeling First of all, he's moving
so well. Yeah, he just creates space and time on the field in a way that reminds me a lot of Mahomes, but he does it in his own way where he creates open receivers by the way that he moves in the pocket. I think he's just so frustrated that this is the season that I actually am healthy and everything should be happening for us, Like I've been waiting for a season like this, and it's not really happening.
And it's not because of him, although they have had the ball late a handful of times on off and actually haven't gotten the ball done. That's why I was annoyed when Bengals fans were like, hey, were these amount of plays away from him being the favorite for MVP. I was like, they've had chances on offense to win at the end of these games. Unfortunately, their defense is bad enough that that's maybe making Burrow frustrated. And then
T Higgins isn't healthy. And you even look at the box score and the game the first time they played the Ravens, it's really all Jamar and T Higgins, And you really noticed the last couple of weeks defenses took away the deep ball from Jamar Chase and they were still able to be really productive, but it wasn't the same. They're just not the same unless you have both of them. Because this is a star driven team. I don't think it's a scheme driven team.
And I would agree with that. That's a really good point. Actually, I would definitely actually, yeah, well not actually, I mean I want to cut.
The damn a. Shek likes to point out everyone check out his new show, by the way, The Shech Show.
I just followed him on Instagram.
He's the best, and I just did the Schech Show this week and he's great. He always pointed out like when someone says, actually, that's a reg flag because they don't know. No, I was thinking in this case that you don't normally think I make a good point, but actually this time I did.
Well not to go sideways. Actually, but you continually continually make good points. That just stopped me in my tracks for a second, because I'm like, if I'm going to sum up why this Bengals offense has just not I mean without the guys that they have on the field, you just don't and without Burrow, you just don't get it. You don't see it, certainly not from from the head coach.
And so that's where I pause for a minute, because I was like, oh, that's a really good way of phrasing that without their bona fide dudes on the field, including Joe Burrow, lifting it seems like trying to lift this defense, you know, out of its inconsistency.
You just don't have that.
Faith and he could do it that he cooked the Ravens last time. But he did have one interception in that game, and that was it wasn't totally the difference because there's a possession in overtime. I mean, Lamar fumbled ball. He actually reminded me a little bit at Joe Burrow. He was very upset after that game, even though they won. Yes, but it could be one of those games where just one pick either way. And I can't quite believe that the Ravens defense is this bad. I keep expecting it
to start getting better because that's been the history. But it is a different coaching staff. You know, Marcus Williams comes back into the lineup last week at safety. But right now they are fourteenth overall on defense, twenty third against the pass. They're a good run stopping team. The Bengals are not a team that will like bang their head against the wall if it's not working. They're just gonna throw the ball like crazy, and they're gonna pick
on Brandon Stevens. Probably back there are Darius Washington. There's a lot of spots there. And their pass rush hasn't been good enough, so I actually think he should be fine. Cody Ford, n Maarrius Mims should probably be fine against the Ravens and their pass rush, should.
We Yeah, you heard them looking around trying to maybe potentially test the trade deadline in that but just you know, they just they're struggling in that fase. And I think either or in this game, greg as we get ready to make.
Our picks, like I either.
Scoring on both sides right, because I could totally see that super high score because everyone just throws it, right. I mean, obviously you're going to try to, like you said, die slowly potentially if you're if you're low. But I think ultimately everyone's just throwing the hell out of the ball and we could get a high scoring game or it could be totally the opposite. We're both defensive coordinators
with some of the film familiarity. Throw this is like their kitchen sink game plan, you know, like Jonathan Gannon for example, every once in a while he has this kitchen sink game plan where he just throws all this weird stuff at you and it's not something that you're like that you're used to whatever, because this is.
You know, AFC North this is this is going to be a weird one.
I could see that, but I feel like these defenses can't handle the kitchen sink game right now. They've they've tried it. They there's there's just not a lot of cohesion. I'm at the point in the year where I'm just I know the Ravens or I think the Ravens will probably lose games or a game the rest of the season, but I'm not gonna pick it. Yeah, I'm picking them to win every single game.
Oh, one hundred percent.
Oh you are.
I'm one hundred percent there with you.
In fact, because earlier in our Thursday shows and our previews, I was trying to be a little risky with the picks and think, oh, well, maybe this could I'm like, nope, team is good. Pick that team. Ravens are a wagon. Pick the Ravens. I'm picking the Ravens by a touchdown. Actually high scoring game, thirty five to twenty eight.
Oh wow, okay, I'll go thirty twenty seven. Not quite as high as last time around, but quite high. Comes down to the end, Bengals aren't done if they lose this game, but they feel like they're going to be in a different tier of like scrapping and trying to get to that seven seed. If they lose this game, they'll be in primetime because of the flex decision in a week as well against the Chargers. They'll have a little extra rest after this Thursday night, so they're not
going anywhere. I don't think there's season's done, but there's something about this team. They're just they weren't having fun coming into the season with the contract stuff both receivers, and they don't seem like they're having that much fun now. It just they feel a little twenty three Eagles to me. I don't think they're going to collapse like the Eagles, but it's like they're just the expectations are tough in life.
You don't want to have expectations. I think they had too much expectations.
You're a frustrated team.
I gotta say there's a lot of cool atmospheres in the NFL, especially for night games. It's hard for me to find one that's cooler than a night game home at Baltimore.
I've never been.
It's sick, dude, Like it's very Gothic vibes. It's just very and it's loud and if you're a frustrated team on the other side, it's only going to get more frustrating.
With that crowd.
Okay, so we are both taking the Ravens. That was the T andF preview presented by Prime Video. Be sure to watch the Cincinnati Bengals take on the Baltimore Ravens this Thursday on Prime Video Fun Show. Thank you to Mike Garafolo for joining us. Thank you to Jordan rod Rieg for making time in between her busy press conference schedule. We will be back on the Wednesday preview. Show might drop a little early this week since the trade deadline
one dropped early, maybe the preview two. Patrick Claybohn Steve Weiss will be in the studio previewing all the games. Look when we're bringing the Gothic vibes, you know football is back.