2023 Week 13 Recap

They Around the NFL podcast, living in.

From the Chris Westling podcast studio. It's Around the NFL the Week thirteen flagship program.

Wow.

Dan Hans is here with Greg Rosenthal and Mark Sessler's heroes both and this is an interesting Week thirteen. We had six teams on Buy and Boys. I there are many times where I miss living on the East Coast. It's days like today where I sit down and I turn on the ten am starts and up and down the Eastern seaboard, just miserable weather messing with everyone's lives, like destroying any semblance of having a fun day at

And I mean, you know, we got some weird weather suspended play which happens. It seemed to happen like once a year whenever's covering that game. Yeah, and I believe it was you, Greg, that you're suddenly watching games an hour and a half later than all the other early slot games.

And I mean the Cardinals Steelers deserve to be a four and a half hour game.

Ah.

But yes, I'm always happy we're here on the West coast, so we're not driving home either at their Sunday night football at twelve thirty at night.

Yeah, that's true.

So you had, yeah, multiple games in raining or downpour conditions. You had all the soggy fields, slippery fields, all those black pellets everywhere, like on the cleats and on their faces and their face mess ah.

But and then you had all these backup quarterbacks, oh oh, and all these guys that can't play. So you got some things going on around the league.

But the one thing we did have, one thing that we knew we had in our back pocket in this week thirteen were the Eagles and Niners.

And here's the good thing, and we're gonna get to the game.

And maybe it wasn't the barn burner we were expecting, but we learned a lot about both teams.

And also Greggy. These guys hate each other and to just get the feeling. It was round one to set it up for a better one.

Next to Philadelphia, we go first and ten Niners in the Philly four eight party looks lap now middle throws caught Brooke and tackled by Deebo Samuel dows not thirty.

Twenty j turn five touchdown. He is going sack Francisco. What an absolute peast debo Samuel oh Man, Greg Papa and Tim Ryan with the call K and B.

Are you know there's so many stars on the Niners and superstars of the Niners. I have long thought debos Samuel is one of those people that he's in my superstar club.

And if you look at.

The Niners bump in the road this season, it neatly coincides with Deebo Samuel out of the lineup. He is such a devastating jack of all trades and we saw it again in Philadelphia where Samuel scored three touchdowns. Who the star of a dominant offensive performance for Kyle Shanahan's offense and a forty two nineteen win over the Eagles. That's just the second loss of the season for Philly and that tightens up the top of the NFC picture considerably.

Greg, the game started.

In one place, yep, and then once San Francisco kind of got things.

Calmed down, the whole game change.

Yeah.

The first quarter was completely dominated by Philadelphia. They had seven first downs to only six plays for the forty nine to one hundred and twenty four yards to negative six. And then after that the forty nine Ers put together what was really one of the best offensive performances of the season by any team and zooming out. I think it really brings into focus this matchup forty nine Ers offense versus Eagles defense specifically, because that's where I'm concerned

That is wild, And it's like this is a matchup situation too, because I'm with you, we're gonna see these guys playing again and for the Niners to start well, we're.

Gonna be repeated a confluence of these teams.

Though, as football fans, I want to feel like we got cheated. If these teams somehow don't meet again and hopefully the NFC title game or at the very least the divisional players, we gotta get these guys back.

In the same Yeah, you throw Dallas in there too.

I mean, I just think to start the way they started, and you you're wondering, did the Eagles just have this team's number? And to turn around with these long Shanahan esque touchdown drives, six touchdowns in a row, clock chewing, high yardage, multiplay situations where it's like every game someone else steps up and plays the star for San Francisco and this version of Deebo Samuel. When you have Trent win Was back in the lineup, it just makes it impossible to figure out how to defend them.

Right.

You mentioned it coincided with Debo being out, and that's totally fair. But Trent Williams is the guy I feel like, Yeah, he's a to me, a first ballot type of Hall of Fame type guy who's still playing at a high level. And when they got going early and they were down six to nothing and Philadelphia went zero for two in the red zone, settling for field goes, they did it by going left it was running left behind Trent Williams, and I also think about a play to start the

I gotta I gotta give us a little bit of credit because I think as a group, we were kind of on this as a possibility with the Eagles living dangerously these last few weeks and the Niners looking for that revenge, playing at a high level, being in a place where they kind of needed the win, and there seemed like an opportunity for this Mark. I think you locked it up. I did good job there. I almost

Will get into what happened with the director of.

Security in a little bit, but for them to put him on them that way with the six straight scores, and I think, you can't win a game in the first quarter, but you can lose one. You could let a game really sneak away. And you look at the way the game started. Greg mentioned that Eagles went red zone,

And that's where he was so common. Yeah, just kind of waiting for Diba to get open on a third and one is very.

He hit Samuel for thirteen yards and once they kind of got the crowd a little bit taken out of it and they got calmed down, they just started rolling. I mean, that's the sign of a championship team, and we're not going to go back, and Eagles fans don't want to hear it, and the Niners fans wouldn't help them anyway.

I kind of think the Niners were the team led in the NFC.

In the way played out an NFC title game was heartbreaking for them and their fan base. This was a This was an announcement to the Eagles, like, this is us at full strength, and.

You don't want to see us in January.

Let's see what happens, right, because the forty nine Ers defense got more pressure on Hurts than vice versa. Now, sometimes I feel like Hurts left the pocket when it was clean and just held it forever and wanted to make a play and it was back to a little bit about what we saw from Hurts. I don't think their offense was bad today. They finished with nineteen points, was just disappointing, but they moved the ball. They didn't have a ton of possessions either. He almost had three

Yeah, I think it's like it's so easy to, you know, magnify the Niners offense and talk about how versatile they are in all their stars, but it's like their defensive front is growing more powerful, and like they gave up two point six yards per Kerry to we an Eagles team that you know has been hot and cold on offense in some ways, but they were able to lean on their ground game heavily early in the year, and today.

They couldn't at all.

And I think to go do this in Philadelphia, which is one of the nastier places to play and come out from the West Coast, it's like this is a statement operation by the Niners, and stop telling me that Brock Party is so far down in this MVP race. It annoys me. It annoys me because I don't know what else he needs to do. I don't know what else he needs.

Here's the thing, here's the thing that's and I'm with you, fundamentally, I'm with you like it needs to he needs more credit. Also, like I think Christian McCaffrey deserves real MVP, a real look.

And this is one hundred and thirty three yards in this game. We haven't even mentioned him.

Yeah, it was like for him, that's a quiet but he was. Every time they kind of needed a play, he made a play. He had a couple of runs where he just showed the best footwork of any running

Yeah, game of the Week.

We've we've tilted towards you know, the closest game of the week sometimes had This has a meaning in a very different way.

Now what we do game of the week if Big Dom was not involved.

Listen, big Dom is someone who I think we need

But it didn't happen that way.

It didn't.

And this was you know, like it's not the ira ironic nickname where they call a large very large person tiny like back in the thirties. Yeah, yeah, he literally is just a giant guy and that's they call him Big Dom and they should.

I'm not now he's been going to become He would have become an even bigger folk here.

People love him. Andy Reid loved him too. He called him my big Italian son back in the day. Like, uh, I think that was on Chris Laws podcasts. Hey, I saw him tweet that out and people loved him. But Big Dom ultimately like kind of skated in terms of the broadcast, like, like, let's calm down, Big Dom. I

You know the Eagles have problems after this game.

I feel like Big Dom's long the list and there it is, you're watch it on YouTube. They got to figure out how to stop a team, an elite team because they have not been and guess what they get that? I think the Cowboys next week and all of a sudden, everything's.

Up for grabs. Number one seed, spicy, It is delicious.

All right, let's see, let's move on. Let's go to another game. Uh, that looked like it was going to be a blowout. That got tight to the Superdome. Two tight end set for the Lions. Golf takes fakes, the give goes end around. Now they flip it on the second back coming around. That is jameson Williams.

It's the before it's side the ten Dogs into the end zone, touchdown Detroit Lions.

A little razzle dazzled.

A number nan dive into the enisode.

The Lions extended their lead.

You know these are the great that's Dan Miller of course, and Lomas Brown of WXYT. These are all amazing athletes that we watch every Sunday. But sometimes you see you see a play and you see a player and you're like, oh, he looks different than the other guys.

Jameis and Williams, we see you Bud. He's through the air there.

Barely, but not even just the sword, just the speed in which he cut through those twenties.

Tell me he did not run thirty three miles per hour.

On I swear to God if he was not, and Eric, if there's a way to track this down, if there was, if he is not above twenty one miles per hour, I'm gonna be sick to my stomach for the entire next gen industry. Rightfully, so, the Lions got that well time TD from their first round mystery Man and another huge performance from breakdout, breakout tight end Sam Laporta in a thirty three to twenty eight win over the Saints.

They did They obviously, I think De Troit and we've identified that there are certain weaknesses that they carry into their postseason journey. But at the same time, it's exciting to see what you got from Jameis and Williams and Sam Laporta is emerging as like a rock solid star tight end who is a heap becoming a bigger and bigger part of their offense. They jumped out to a twenty one to nothing lead in the first seven minutes. Derek Carr through a terrible interception on the first offensive

I hope everyone's happy.

Well, no, you know what you know, life once and for all, I know portal.

Well, it does sound dark, but like you, you like have been defending him, and I had to say that at one point, like with the Superdome, which was massively filled with Lions fans, So it's like that's that's telling me that a lot of Saints fans are about as frustrated as possible and selling your tickets. But he's getting booed relentlessly because it was a rough Like the way this whole thing started, it was not a good look for Derek Carr.

Like Quin Taysom Hills on the field. They then boo when Car comes back.

Yeah, like Car, it was, and you just saw a look on his face on the sideline. But at one point he's getting lustily booed by this crowd and he'd hit fifteen straight passes and.

Then his interception was just a drop. It was not on him to be fair.

Yeah, I just think I think the problem with I think the whole thing, with the whole whole experience here is becoming like the whole Saints team feels like they're floating away to me, and it starts.

With the coach. It's the quarterback situation.

He's like the face of it, and he's become the main target and he absolutely has played a role in what's happening here, Mark, and I'd love to hear more, although I'm still trying to wrap my head around next gen stats report here that Jamis and William reached the.

Top speed of twenty point seven.

Okay, here's because you only get you only get those what you only get those top speeds if you run for like twenty five straight yards, you know what I mean. You no one can get it in the first fifteen yards, you know, what I mean.

Tell me, you can't tell me you watch that play in real time. He's not going sixty miles an hour. I yeah, it's it's questionable.

And when he jumped and then the celebration like multi part. He only has a couple plays every week, but they're among the most exciting plays in the NFL.

I love me some Jamis did with but.

No, all right, let's let's watch them James and Williams post game one way play.

We already know what's going on. When waimore get, I just got a giddy.

Let's go tend down.

Wait, wait, let's go.

It's such a great guy.

I gotta start start calling. I thought it was Jamo, but I guess he's Weimo Mark.

Let's getting back to the game, and along lines what you're saying with carr Andy and Jameis, Winston comes in and they have a chance to steal this game, and then he's scattershotting the ball over the place. So just be careful, Saints fans of who you're getting after, because it's it's a lot of people that aren't getting jobs.

Well they're not to some of their parts.

And I don't think I think it's pretty clear to most Saints fans the Jameis Winston's not going to give you a completely different experience. I thought this game mattered a lot for Jared Goff, who was money when it mattered.

Now they're nine and three for the first time in the Super Bowl era, right, Yeah, big win on the road, a game like I expected quite a stat nine and three for the first time in fifty seven years. The Lions, they're gonna.

Have it's been the dark organizational journey for.

They're gonna have a lot of these little numbers. And this game kind of went like I thought, we're just there would be messiness these two teams. The the Lions defense is a problem enough that there's gonna be messy moments. I was nervous, Greg, you were nervous. You jumped on my lock. But you shouldn't have been nervous, because they always give.

It to give it to once, give it to us. The vibes are right, give it to me again. I gotta say one thing real quick.

I thought that was gonna be a very annoying aspect today, and you guys barely even talked about it.

So good that you made the office more than what were you expecting.

Just a lot of you guys like.

Like like, I'm not gonna honk too much about uh, the Saints losing here, But that third and nine you just mentioned, so that the Laporta catch before that nails. He has a chance Laporta to set the all time record for yardage as a rookie.

I mean, you went nine today.

That's that's the record, I believe for a single game for a rookie tight end. And now he's got a chance to break that the season record. He's got a pretty good chance. I think he needs a couple hundred yards to go in the last five games. He's ridiculous. But that throw on third and nine to Reynolds, that play call and then Gof's execution of it was as gutsy to me as any fourth down call that Campbell's

And he's shown them outside of the past couple of games where you know he deserves that trust. There was one moment in this and it wasn't really like the it wasn't the network's decision to do this, but how like Kamara raised out of bounds and like ran into the legs of like a chain gang dude.

Yeah, and like the camera was sort of fixed, like the camera.

Guy was sort of fixed on the whole situation, and it was uncomfortable to watch because it was just like not an athlete but a like a normal man, just like writhing on the ground in a way that like it was worse than stuff.

I was a catastrophic lower leg injury as a dislocated kneecap or something.

Jeff Duncan of The Times picky and reported that, yeah, that he was at University Hospital in New Orleans.

It's gonna have surgery. It was uncomfortable to watch. We wish him well.

It's like when we've been on the like the games in London on the sideline, there's always this like under belly of concern that like a football is gonna hit me in the head, where a player is gonna smash in me and I'll.

Just be killed.

Right, that would be in some ways a pathetic way to go, but also kind of cool. I mean, we would be They're all just specs on this universe, and at least that would be a memorable death.

It'd be pathetic.

Oh has your buddy Mark doing? Oh?

Died killed on the sideline by Derrick Henry in Week five, like oble keg all right, Uh, let's head to Houston, where the Texans were looking to keep their playoff push going and the Broncos we're looking to keep a winning streak intact.

Third and goal from the eight, Wilson and the gun one back p Ryan Wilson gets to snap wilsonid Chase.

Wilson escapes the sack, throws what's out of the ends are accepted, Yes, Texas, Yes, Houston's gonna win.

Nine seconds to go.

Yes, Mark Van Demir and andre Ware with a yes, Ki l T andre Ware, that's awesome.

Yeah.

The fun and surprising Texans season has been defined by the play of wonder kind QB Bryce Young Thanks C. J.

Stroud.

On Sunday, we were reminded of the huge gains made on the other side of the ball, Jimmy Ward's end zone I n T save the day for the home team and a twenty two win over the Broncos, who's winning streak comes to an end and the Texans keep

Yeah, I think like there's a connective DNA to what Demiico Ryans was able to do in San Francisco before he got this job where there's player development, like Will Anderson's growth has like he was a fascinating player today and wreaking all sorts of havoc. Like you bring in Jimmy Ward, who obviously you know they knew each other from San Francisco, and he's making big plays, and like Derek Stingley, it's like it's the Yes, CJ. Stroud is the biggest story in Houston, but this defense can make

Pretty quickly, right, Jimmy Ward and Stingley. You look at when they were in the lineup and when they weren't, and that kind of coincides with them playing much better now. Their offensive line has also gotten healthier, and I think that's how too in terms of the past protection for Stroud, but they are box office every week, that is now. And they showed a graphic during game like heartbreaking losses

Yeah, so you have that side of things and the reason.

And again they just lost their most important offensive player beside Stroud. So I'm not going to come down on the offense too hard, but they really struggled to put this game away third down. They were four for sixteen in this game, and it allowed Denver to hang around even on an imperfect day from their offense. So Russell Wilson, we just talked about him. Greg is pumping his fist right now because Wilson after going.

He didn't say a word.

No interceptions during that that's five game winning streak. He throws three interceptions in this game, and it's kind of frustrating. I know Denver fans are feeling it because the interception that ends the game, he makes a really athletic play to escape the rush and he actually he kind of sets himself a little bit and takes an extra beat. He probably doesn't throw that ball up for grabs because he had he had some time, but I think he was rushing after the hurry and it led to the interception,

Arrow up on court Courtland Sutton by the.

Way, Oh, I feel like every week he's doing something.

Really and I was, I was.

I think I had a tweet earlier today that he's really kind of arrived.

But he had like a twelve hundred yard season a few years ago.

One of West's favorite players thought he was kind of an all Pro that was buried on a team that it depressed his stats even though he was just incredible.

But he's kind of back now that that version of him his best.

He had his ninth catchdown touchdown catch of the season, so that was the positive. Denver and Houston still in the playoff mix. But that was a big win for the text loss in the injury.

Wilson on the ground last you know, three or four weeks has been looking a little bit more like the.

Old Yes had a big fourth down pick up their six and six Texans seven and five. We'll see if

So yeah, I mean he's a nobody's pounded the table for MVP for Russe Wilson.

No, there was like one Broncos fan, But you don't want to be but you don't want to listen to this closely block it was like, this is better MV. I don't know.

Yes, I saw one that feels slightly disconnected from reality.

I think he's probably a big wins as a QB stat guy, would be my guess. On that play one last thing before we move on, we need Uh. This happened a couple of times. H that I saw in games I watched today. Happened in the Meadowlands too, against the Falcons when they blew a play dead on a strip of Trevor Simeon that would have went for a touchdown.

Uh.

They overturned it on review from an incomplete pass, But if they just let the play play out, it's a touchdown and a game icing touchdown for Atlanta. In this game, the Texans hit some a JP ryand for no game They took the ball away ran it in for a tv TD, but officials ruled forward progressing stopped. A replay showed it that that was you could very easily have gone the other way on that.

And it's just, you know, come on, bad officiating game whistles.

I feel like I was watching a lot of bad officiating in the games I watched today.

I don't know about you.

And the Texans.

First touchdown was after Alex Singleton roughing, which was pretty soft like where it was. That was a fourth down turnover that it kept the drive going because he like lightly pushed C J.

Stroud.

Although if I was Texans fans, I would love the fact that Stroud like immediately got right back.

In his face. And that's why I was surprised, like Singleton just got the penalty and Stroud at all. But it was I liked it.

I would say, if you're an official and it's pouring rain or it looked like it was hailing at one point down in Tampa, like I think it'd be, you know, I would do a lesser job.

Not a problem at NRG Stadium if that's what it is. It's still energy. I don't they flipped that way. So you're saying they wouldn't try as hard if the weather was better.

I don't, but try as hard. It's like to go go do anything just as good. If it's freezing rain and you're like soaking, well, it's your job. The professional you know what.

If job to begin with.

If this is open air and the rains pouring in.

Oh, we'd be professional.

But this is what we just stays at a level absolutely of greatness. All right, let's take a break and we will march on.

Right.

Welcome back to Around the NFL the Flagship Program, Week thirteen. It's time now for the Sunday Drive presented by the first ever Toyota Grand Highlander.

It is Nick Shook time. So let's head to Nashville. Two thirty four to go in overtime, second down and goal at the four Hanks. You out of the guns, shotgun snap looks to is right, Indians close, Michael Pittman looks down.

Touchdown. Michael Pittman ball game?

Why gee?

Why Michael Pittman into the inZone from Carnivent.

You and the cool Quinn thirty one.

C bang in Nashville. Yes, sir, how the Bungos are out?

Matt Taylor and Rick Van Turry with the call w f N I Gardner means you threw a four yard touchdown pass to Michael Pittman with two thirty one to play in overtime, allowing the Colts to escape Nashville with a thirty one to twenty eight win over the Titans. That's four straight wins for the Colts to keep them in the playoff race in the AFC. The Colts had needed that touchdown because Nick Folk booted a forty six yarder earlier in ot But they would not be denied.

Another man who will never be denied in all things, but especially in the gym.

The pipe pipe, pipe, pipe pipe.

Game turned on that block punt, didn't it. Yeah, a little bit. I got the Colts back to the game.

Titans were got out too an early lead, kind of had a little bit of control of the game. Colts couldn't do all that much offensively. You get the block pun, everything swings. Suddenly the Colts are stringing together good drive, They take the lead, they get it to overtime, Titans fight back.

This game had everything.

This game had pretty much every element you'll expect from an NFL game. There was all kinds of wackiness. You had two former backups now starters playing pretty good football. A classic meeting between the Colts and Titans. This used to decide the division. It's not going to decide the division this year, but it was worthy of that type those types of steaks and Colts.

Come away a winner.

And I don't know if if you know, but just just so you're certain in case the radio call didn't get it through to your head.

Yeah, he got it, He's got it, he got it.

Yeah.

Yeah, you can watch games all season and not I would imagine we won't see any other game where a punt is blocked twice in a row by the same team, which knocks out the punter and then brings a Nick Folk to punt who, by the way, punted. Fine, sure, let's just save a roster spot and have no as the holder. Yeah he didn't, which that may have cost them because they missed the extra point with Tannehill the laces. It's like, okay, can we calm down to the laces and hit an extra point?

What do I know?

You're out of your element.

And then, more importantly, I mean the same game that we have two straight block punts, we have a pick two, which is one of my favorite things. If this game did not involve the Colts Titans, it would absolutely be our game of the week. Maybe we should rethink it. I'm just saying there said there was a.

Lone going on tangle. Yeah, go ahead, shooky, Yeah, they kind of are.

I mean Gardner minshe had a strong day. You know, he didn't make any mistakes. He had a beautiful touchdown pass to Alec Pierce, who I think is kind of coming on as of late. He's a guy who I've kind of liked, and and you look at the receiving corps and you think, well, they don't have all that much talent. But if a guy like Piers can produce like he did today, then suddenly it'll be much better and be more than just Michael Pittman, who also had a strong day. But it's you know, it's a cold

And they're not going away if they play like this and if they're coached like this, because they've got the Bengals Joe Burrow free Bengals next week, a Steelers team that's going to be playing with their backup quarterback, a Falcons team that's beatable, the Raiders who are beatable.

And then that final game with the Texans. So it's like we.

Talked a lot about the Colts last week, and I hear it like they're not always exciting to watch. But I do think that change psyching is a difference making type of coach. And I look at the overall jobb he's done this year, I'm really impressed. And you get this version of Gardner minsh, You're not the one that's throwing three interceptions and you can win.

Right That was his best throw of the game in overtime. And I want to give them credit because they're just clutched. They always find a way here. And then I look and like the offense I think had a total of fourteen yards on their last five possessions of the in the fourth quarter, So their offense did not was not clutch in the fourth quarter, but their defense made just enough place to get him to overtime.

And then Minshew makes the play, and it's just like and that the culture now three and zero.

When min Chew does not throw an interception, which you know he does do that a lot, so but when he plays the clean version of a Minshee game, it's just like the Coult server a reminder, and I hope teams are learning from this in this very sloppy quarterback season twenty twenty three.

Your season doesn't have to be over because your starting quarterback got hurt. It doesn't have to be right.

For many teams, it is because they don't prioritize or invest in the position beyond the starter. And Minshew was out there for anybody, and the Colts said, Okay, we like having that guy behind our rookie. And when the rookie disappears at the end of September, they were still okay because the rookie was still figuring things out, so it wasn't even like you were going from up here to down here. And Minshew somehow has to find a

I mean, if you can have a fringe starter as your backup, you're in a different place than teams that you know, with a lack of creativity stick someone behind your starter, like in Cincinnati and if anything happened to Josh Allen in Buffalo, where it's like your season is lost if you sticking a guy who's just a ham and egger.

Yeah, but I think it also is kind of.

They're indicative of how strong your coaching staff is because we've seen this happen over the last few years, and you've seen it in this season, where you know, a team like San Francisco in previous years had to go through a number of different quarterbacks and yet found a way to still be kind of competitive. Or this year with the Colts, and how Shane Stikeen's doing such a

He is a candidate, they invite three coaches to the NFL honors.

He certainly got. He certainly got a chance. Don't invite two coaches who aren't gonna win. I don't know how that works. Maybe they don't, but they definitely you don't invite multiple coaches, then you.

Then you got to give you the idea of Manu Chaange Stegonds, like I could be Coach of the Year if only Demiko Ryans didn't exist. It's like Josh Malwitz on Dateline the same record.

They got the same record, and one's coaching with with Minschew.

So, uh, you might have a point, but it's one of those seas insinuating murder. Yeah, everything goes right for them that you get two block punts. Jeffrey Simmons leaves with an injury and Derek Henry leaves with an injury in the same game.

Henry went over one hundred with two scores. Hopefully he's going to be okay, shookie, Thank you buddy. Easy one week. Hey, no more buys in a couple of weeks. So we're gonna need you down the stretch.

I'll be getting my back ready to carry the load or you.

Don't skip back there.

No, I don't.

I definitely don't, Shooky.

Thank you buddy.

And that was the Sunday Drive presented by Toyota Let's Go Places. Learn more at toyota dot com. Slash Grand Highlander.

I think we had a good Thursday show, guys. I keep looking at some of the results and it's syncing up with our commentary going into these games. We looked at this Dolphins Commanders game and said, you know what, these fish, it's been a while since. They gave us some explosive fun and it was explosive. Well, it's explosive fun for the Dolphins and explosive something else for the Commanders and their fans.

Let's head to landovers.

Kill e motion goes to the right looking for him keep down the field.

What a movement by a heel to kicks that football.

He was turned inside Joe the bolls it, throw it to the outside and he weeded his way back. Another bomb to its Hill touchdown Jimmy Cefalo.

WBGG with it called.

Tyreek Hill had two more touchdowns in five catches for a buck fifty seven that was basically in a half a word, and he and the Miami Dolphins absolutely hammet the Washington Commanders forty five point fifteen to remain comfortably atop the AFC East and they're nine to three for the first time since two thousand and one. How about that, Greggie, This was it? This was that a dominant Miami offense. And of course if they're having a dominant day, Tyreek Hill is all over it.

Yeah, I want it to be dazzled. I said it.

It's been a while since we had one of those two games and we got it, and yes, Tyreek Hill is ridiculous, and that is such a great adjustment on the ball there where maybe they weren't on the same page exactly, and he gets the long touchdown. But Tua creates math problems with these receivers. Those two long touchdowns that he threw were in getting rid of the ball in two point one to three seconds, in two point twenty five seconds, which is so fast, and yet the ball is fifty yards.

Down the field and Hill is catching up to it. So it's timing, it's footwork.

I think Tua's really improved at resetting and making the first pass rush or miss missed. That wasn't maybe the case on those touchdowns, but there were many plays today where Washington actually did get pressure quickly and he just does a little shoulder shake or he moves to the side and then he resets. It's very Tom Brady is just in terms of the pocket presence of just quickly moving and then making a nice throw. So I'm I'm all aboard the Tyreek Hill is the MVP right now.

We needed that.

I mean, Tyreek Hill is just doing this every week. Part of it is the opponent. Washington has given up one hundred and five points in three games, and well, I think Sam Howell has been.

A visually intriguing player to watch.

Everything is falling apart and it's it's clear, you know the coach is going to be gone, the GM is going to be gone. I think Howell deserves a chance to stay as your future starter. I think he's shown a lot, but he also, like is not protected well, walks into a lot of his own sacks. And when you get the version of them throwing a pick six today, lighting now, I think it's a good sign that without Jill Phillips, the Dolphins like defense played another good game.

They got so much pressure on how this. I thought Howell played well in this game, which will sound crazy because he had one hundred and twenty seven yards in an interception. The interception to me is not on the quarterback. It was a great read by Andrew van Ginkle, like a play that they through film study. He just read it and picked it off. Van Ginkel had a sack, a pick six and almost blocked a pun and then yeah, Seeler and ogbad getting pressure. They were all over how

You can't give somebody a staff for almost doing something.

I'm just saying he was amongst after stats.

I just made like vig Gego is everywhere.

And there was a moment like right after a pick six and a sack that he then almost blocked the button.

I was just like, nice, was great. You know, I think, uh, we now have Ron Rivera. He has now graduated, uh to the uh Frank Reich dead man walking club.

It's no longer a matter of if, It's a matter of when.

And there is certainly a case to be made here and everyone out there wants Eric Pienemy to get a shot as a head coach with his resume to give the enemy, you know, four or five weeks.

I couldn't agree more. I don't think you let you. I don't think you just let him gocuse. I think he's been he's been a big shot.

See what happens with the team, see how they play with him, and see how the offense operates with him kind of having more responsibility. Now I might look smart if this happens on like tomorrow, would not shock me. But they also just let go of the defensive coordinator and that was kind of the blood letting that I thought would take Rivera to the finish line.

And yet games like these make you think, like what is the point, Like they're also going to they're entering their bye week too, so.

Another reason why it could happen.

Okay, it could.

And there was like a moment where Bienemy was kind of like barking at Howell on the side. I just don't know, Like it's not a good position for Bienemy to be in either. I don't think it helps anyone. But yeah, Rivera's defense. The Dolphins only had nine drives.

In this game and they put up forty five points, So it was rather that was rather a need and a chain came back scored a couple of times. They you know, that was a kind of get right game. That was a nice adjust I.

Had not thought of it in roughly twenty five years. But on NFL Primetime on ESPN. Back in the nineties, Eric Benemy was a running back. Oh yeah, and Chris Berman would call him sleeping.

With the enemy.

Oh yeah, the Julia Roberts vehicle on one of his best Yeah, maller and technicical. Now sleeping at the enemy is that's a classic sleeping with the enemy.

Good stuff. All right, here we go.

We move forward because that's the only thing we can do across the sidewalk.

Mark Sessler was not in attendance, and maybe that was a good thing.

So has seven seconds to work with as they set up from the thirty second and one from the pocket, he deals.

Down the scene, hits pot, broke it field holcoh oh, that was pretty Pooka.

To the crib, just touchdown.

Alan.

To the crib.

You know, we love our guy, Davey Long with the call, great guy, great announcer. Oh yeah.

Matthew Stafford threw three touchdown passes and that guy pooking Akoua the first ever Rams rookie wide receiver across one thousand yards in the season.

It's December third, how about that?

Wow, the Rams keep winning. That's three in a row, sneaky three game winning streak. Thirty six nineteen over the Browns at so far mark that final score is misleading because we were sitting next to each other. The Browns have a chance to tie this game, I believe in the fourth quarter.

Yeah.

And then what midway through down one right, Yeah, and you're one of the most reliable kickers in the league, misses an extra point and things go south from there and Dustin Hopkins, Dustin Hopkins, I think this this feels like a lot of Browns games. We're gonna get down

He had a stone age pony. He can do something. He also looked to me refreshed.

I mean, I'm not saying he's gonna he's he's not going to like like confuse anyone on the ground, but he didn't look like he looked to me last year with the Jets. I thought he threw the ball outside of you know, the one interception that was so costly, like threw the ball really well at times, and like you kind of it's like, oh, well, if you had this version of of a quarterback play like during this, Like you know, they've been on four of them and

And it's a it's a couple of weeks in.

A row where it's kind of just like concerned about the overall journey of this Browns team. R I feel like other AFC teams at the bottom of that, like wild Card Grid are starting to heat up, like Cleveland's going in the other direction, and I don't really think you can rely on Joe Flacco and left of this offense to save you.

Well, yeah, midway through the fourth quarter, which is crazy looking at the final score. The brown score touchdown, they missed the extra point, but then they get a quick punt from the Rams and Joe Flacco actually has the ball with six point fifty one to go down one point. And at that point there were a lot of tweets and I was half watching this game too.

There's a lot of drops.

I thought Flacco was playing great, like Tony Grose's saying, this is the best game any quarterbacks played for the Browns this season. And then Flacco just forced one. He took a shot that he shouldn't have taken. John Johnson intercepts it, returns it, and suddenly the Rams are rolling. But you can tell me more, Mark that I was surprised to see the Rams rack up four hundred yards almost in this game. And I think Stafford played well and Pukinoku is great and they get the running game

Did they look like that?

Yes, yeah, because it wasn't the way that the Rams. The Rams did it a lot through the air. I mean, Nakua fried them. They don't have Denzel Award and that's two weeks in a row. Yeah, they really miss him. I think that if you look at Jim Schwartz's defense is historically like they've shined when he's had like that shutdown corner and they're picking on other cornerbacks in this game.

It was a rib injury, but came back in.

So it's like, this is a gritty young guy who like when you don't get big numbers from Cooper Cup Stafford Kaleen on him, and it's like they found different ways to beat a pretty banged up Browns defense.

Browns didn't force a turnover, the Browns didn't have a sack. A lot of talk about the Browns is a historic defense that's kind of out the window now. They've been normal for a few weeks now. And I don't know if Males Garrett's healthy or not, but you know that's now a very quiet game and a big spot. And on the other side of the ball. You know Joe Flacco. You know he's six foot six and he's got the howitzer.

But did they block for him. I'm sure he could keep this offense moving.

But the defense has to rediscover that spark or yeah, they're going to fade out of this very quickly.

The Ramps are interesting.

This is their first greg three game winning streak since their Super Bowl season.

Wow, and they're limiting teams. I think this is four street they've held opponents under twenty one points. The defense, which is so undermanned, gets better and better. Kobe Turner, a rookie, had a really nice game. But I think this was a reminder. Flaco's old, for sure, thirty eight years old, but it's easy to forget Matthew Stafford's thirty five,

You know what, Lebron James and Kareem Abdul Jabarbara booth at this game?

Who at the football game?

The two highest scoring players in the history of basket.

But they're basketball players. I don't know, why would they be at the I don't know. It made no sense to me from that angle that they're not the same sport. Doesn't it seem like we should have heard something by now?

What I mean, how much more time do I have to buy for you, Bud.

I don't know why this is the most completely different in basketball now. I don't know why this is the drop for of all the drops that have gotten the most used. There was something highly comical about like flying up the rappaport connection, like ian was your supposed to from basketball?

See, yeah, that one.

Right, an NFL insider saying that, So you know I'm getting but I agree.

I think we all agree with you. So that's why I was surprised they were even at the football game.

Yeah, I mean I it is illogical, all right.

Speaking of ill logical, the Jets for the past twelve years, oh fifty twelve to the medal.

Ends Boyle from under center here on second at nine, play fake to Dalvin Cook. Boyle wants to hang one up fort Garrett Wilson.

And it's picked.

Jesse Bates has got another one fifth interception of the year for Jesse Bates, and like last week, he read it from center field.

In Atlanta.

Celebrates the pick by Baits with twenty six seconds.

To go into third.

Yes, that right there might be the final throw of Tim Boyle's NFL career. Yes, another benefactor of the Aaron Rodgers Scholarship fund bit the dust on Sunday, be fuddled by the Falcons defense and an ugly thirteen to eight win for the NFC South leaders. Desmond Ritter back in the lineup for the second game. He threw a twenty yard touchdown pass to Mikole Pruitt in the second quarter.

That was the only touchdown in the game, and that was.

The only thing that you would really need to beat the Jets, who cannot score touchdowns. So the Falcons they keep their spot top the NFC South. However, man, if you want to talk yourself into the Falcons, go do it until you're blue in the face. And I'm not going to take anything away from him. They won this game, but I just I still don't see it with this team, and they could not get the running game going. They really won because how inept the other side of the ball is here.

They're a tough watch.

And I'm looking at this drive chart that the Jets had six drives that win for less than six yards, I mean, and they seem to look at like it every week.

And I guess i'd ask you this.

Like, do you see the team con you mean to splinter and fracture or was this a little bit better?

That's almost too exciting a faith for the Jets at this point, they just stink.

They're a bad team.

They are now on their third quarterback Trevor Simmons came in after that boil throw and was equally ineffective. It was so and credit the Falcons defense, Okay, you got it, because you know, you gotta win games in the league. And when the Jets took the field for their last possession, they are down. What are they down? They're down five points and they have the ball with less than two

There was no one watching this game.

There was no one at Metlive Stadium that thought the Jets had any chance to go down the field. They had one completion on the drive to get near I think the forty yard line, and then they just marched backwards and didn't even come close. So the Falcons, you know, as frustrating and up and down as their offense has been this season, and again you would have liked to see their running game, you know, do better in this game.

Yeah, I think this is sometimes I think the narrative's been played up too much that the Jets defense is just holding on, holding on, holding on some of those games that they haven't been, you know, pristine this game. You give up one hundred and ninety four yards, you give up three yards per play, You hold the Falcons running attack, which was outstanding last week, to ninety yards. You keep giving your offense a chance after chance after chance.

So it was like they.

Can't find they can't find a quarterback who could just throw the ball. And I know there was bad weather, but it's like Ritter wasn't on that list.

As I will do on these Sundays this season, because this has been, honestly, and there have been so many but in a lot of ways, the most frustrating worst Jets season ever because of the Rogers side of things, and maybe if there's any positive to this, this almost certainly should take Aaron Rodgers out of play trying to force his way back on the field because they are

Well, yeah, it didn't work, but it.

Was always a hail Mary to see if one of these guys could provide a spark.

Neither could, and now you have Bob Sala, who.

Has completely been stripped of any dignity up on the press on the day of saying, oh, you know, you might be turning to another quarterback next week. And again, it didn't have to be over after Week one. Maybe the Super Bowl dreams had to be over, but you could have still been competitive this year if you went out and got a real quarterback. You didn't, and like I said, you get what you deserve. So another gruesome

Wanted to be in the building anymore.

And they're seeing what's going on elsewhere in the league where people are having fun and winning games.

It's gotten to that place for the Jets.

So I don't know how much else needs to be said about this game. The Falcons took care of business, but I wasn't overly impressed by them. It was like a mediocre team against a team that is completely imploded and the mediocre team came out ahead.

Yeah, I feel really ultimately incorrect about what I thought the Falcons would be. And they're just the middle of the road team and a terrible division. They're gonna get an extra game in January that I don't need to watch.

But maybe maybe there's there's six and sent that they're in that world, there's six and six, so that gives them a one game lead over the Saints and the Bucks. Hopefully it's only one NFC South team to sneak in, although if the you know, the Falcons are at six and six, they were one of four teams we just mentioned the Rams that are at six and six.

It might turn into five. It's a six and sick God help us, and they.

Get two teams from that Southern Probably won't happen.

Probably won't happen. A. J.

Terrell got hurt in this game, by the way, their best defensive day after losing Grady Jarrett.

You know they need him back, all right, let's see, let's see.

Let us move to you're dying with anticipation Arch.

Let's move to Pittsburgh, where the Steelers are looking to continue their quest twelve and five.

They're down on a yard on the nine. Three tight ends Murray under center, Connor behind him, one receiver to the right. They hand it off Connor.

To the left.

First down, Connor dies for the end zone touchdown. James Connor with two scores and the welcome back party in Pittsburgh.

All the Carls just.

Broke out the black and blue brigade.

Baby light up and suck the beating heart leaf.

Speaking of your opponents.

Whoa put that to clip it?

And I know, Eric, you know when we're saying this, do we have a folder of the top calls of the year. I have a folder because because once again Ron wolf Lee is announcing this is my competition to lose. I like that, he clarified, metaphorically, speaking right. James Connor, the former Steeler, ran for a buck five and two touchdowns, including the game Icer and the Cardinals beat the Steelers twenty four to ten at the field formerly known as Hines.

Was nineteen sixty nine. Well, it depends who you are, but.

Yeah, that's correct, and Gregy, I mean, oh soon, come on now, Steelers.

We can't.

We can't. It can't be December and we're losing games to the tanking card.

We can't this for a game that was delayed by lightning multiple times in Pittsburgh in December, come back to us, mother Nature.

It's a high desert team flying across the country. They're just looking to get this game over.

With right, And at one point was twenty four to three. It was highly entertaining and surprising. Sometimes you watch a game and you're just not expecting it to go a certain way, and late in the second quarter of this game, it was going how we expected that the Steelers had out gained the Cardinals at that point one sixty one to thirty six, and then a two play sequence on the goal line changed everything. Kenny Pickett scrambled trying to score at the four, he got to the one yard line,

He's ducked serious and you just get hurt every few.

Weeks and he takes a lot of big hits, so that sounds like a multiple week injury. In comes Trubisky. He hands it off to Nase Harris. It's three to three at the time, even though the Steelers have totally dominated, they hand it to Harris.

He gets stoned at the one.

Well, at least he got the Steelers defense backed up or playing against the Cardinals, who have ever done anything backed up. Kyler Murray leads one of the most epic drives of the year, fifteen plays, ninety ninety yards for a touchdown, and you know what, Kyler Murray played fantastic the rest of the game. So did James Connor, and they kind of dominated the second half of this game. Trey McBride went wild the second year, tight and eight for eighty.

Nine in a touchdown.

He dominated that that ninety nine yard drive and I was just floored by how much this game changed in that sequence.

That fifteen play touchdown drive was Arizona's longest march since twenty fifteen.

That you know what else is it's the longest march in NFL history. I mean yards wides, you can't can't top it. It's tied a bit.

And on top it can't beat it. I have a weird stat from this game.

Weirder than what Greg just said. I guess that was weird.

I think it's I'd say it's less trenches.

Okay.

Kyler Murray at five to ten in a quarter inches to rondeel Moore, who's five to seven.

Their touchdown combination.

Is the shortest duo to connect for a touchdown since Pard Pierce, who was five foot five, threw a touchdown to Dutch s Tournament was five foot eight on the nineteen twenty Decatur Staley's I think it was football.

Wow, it's a different sport, Gunners. That's pretty good. Although they dead that came from Adam Harstadt and that was fa That was one of my favorite plays and throws of the week, and they actually called it back because of a holding call.

But he has thrown touchdowns to rondel Moore in the past, I believe, so that would still be a true statement unless.

One of them was much taller when that happened.

But yeah, that was Kyler.

You look at the box score and you see one hundred and forty five yards on twenty three attempts at a touchdown, you think, okay, it was good game, nothing crazy, but he had two of the best throws I saw a week. One was would have been a sixty yard play to Moore who dropped it, and the other was like a forty yard touchdown to More where Moore made a great play. It was a great throw on the

But wow, they brought us asleep at the wheel.

Little James Connor revenge game in Pittsburgh, it was fun.

How about Mike Tomlin, who's got to be I mean, we know our boy Mike t the Aviators. He had to be furious with his Steelers laying an egg against the Cards.

Let's listen, you know that was a horrible day at the office. We didn't do much right in that game, to be quite honest with you.

So we got to own that obviously, starting first and foremost with me.

Just losing football.

A lot of it was like bad snaps called it JV. He said it was a JV. Performed had a lot of bad penalties.

Team, Yeah, they had a lot of big penalties. Nine for seventy seven, and they're usually one of the least penalty teams. They had like three different bad snaps, so you'll see in the box score that Trubisky and Picket both had fumbles, but those were the bad stumps. They lost one, so they set up a short field. Like the Cardinals, touchdowns were often other than the ninety nine yard one. We're on short fields, and yeah, it was just sloppy. Trubisky wasn't great, but he took a couple

Yeah, that says.

I didn't want to be that guy because you guys are excited about it, but I just couldn't get on board with this Pittsburgh offense turning the corner talk this week and then this game happens and I have to watch it. But it's just like, even when they were putting up more yards, they still weren't scoring points.

And once again, they can't. You can't score.

Well, I think it was a reminder their running game was working great until the moment they got stuffed on the goal line. But when you suddenly get down two touchdowns like that kind of went out the window.

Well that's so called explosion happened against the Bengals team with zero offense.

Right now in the defense thought and.

It included again sixteen points, as Dan pointed out, normal and uh yeah, this guy, this guy McBride who again for the seventeen people like myself who watched all or Nothing and Trey McBride was featuring out hard knocks in the very likable guy who had very little role last year. I think he is their leading receiver for the season now Dan, which maybe is not a great thing, but he's on pace for over eight hundred yards. That's pretty big time for a tight end.

Let's big weapons in the off season. It's hands Mark.

We got to to get twelve and five.

Now, we got to be Patriots at Indy verse Sincy, at Seahawks, at Ravens, need them all.

Yeah, it's not gonna happen in the Cardinals. It's not happening. Thank you Cardinals for winning this game and helping out the tankathon exploits of the Patriots. Here, let's take a break and then we'll hit those patriots.

Good leading.

Think we got something here that's think Welcome back to Around the NFL, the flagship show.

Hey, I was thinking.

I was thinking because I came into the studio before we started recording, came in a little hot, came in thinking, you know, how if the NFL ever like invested in some type of promotional campaign for our show.

Hasn't really happened yet, but doesn't mean.

It can't happen.

You know, they started to flex our financial might what fifteen billion dollar company? Yeah, all of a sudden they start running ads on Sunday for Around.

The That would be fun.

Yeah, I'm sure they'll get to that soon. So I just had an idea that popped into my head. Exterior. Two dads at a playground in a park, Okay, okay, And then so dad one's like, oh man, it's so hard to keep up with everything going on in this world, especially in the NFL, you know, because my wife is dead. And then the other guy comes in and their kids are playing in the background, and he's like, well, I got something for you. Other guy's like oh, a new wife.

And then the other guy.

Goes, Nah, these shows a little more than just about the x'es and o's.

End of commercial.

I think it also could you could have different versions where like it's all the same except his last line is different, and it's like, actually, these guys have a lot of fun too.

That's good, you know what I mean. And so that's that you're building and building different variations, and it's unclear how the wife perished.

Well, I was gonna say, you could have a last shot of him being like, well, off to the cemetery.

I mean, that seems like a downer. Seems like a downer.

I think our show would mask over a lost line.

Here's the thing, it's like.

That would be that would get people talking.

Yeah, yeah, they take they take their jobs really seriously, but they don't take themselves too seriously.

Oh yeah, these guys love ball, but it's not just about the ball.

They have fun, very organic conversation. It's like yours. It's like you're friends with them. These are like the three buddies in the bar, especially if you're from northern Scotland.

There's Scotland coming up again on the show Great Country that anyone's listening from the ad department?

Just why have they never why have they never invested even a penny on our shows before?

I've never heard anything anything from the third floor. Maybe that's for the best.

All right, let's head to Foxborough where the bizarre misery continued. For Greg's patriots Herbert to throw.

As a man, it's the game, Alex Erickson.

When the game demanded, excel.

Etta, do not shrink when the lights are the brightest. He puts the ball in his most valuable weapons hands and justin Herbert delivers the victory.

Put that on the list.

That's pretty good.

You gotta know money like you got a chance to work with money for a few years of powering. The man's got a keen sense of humor and a dry wit. You could you could hear the sarcasm pulsing through that call. And again, also, if you're gonna put any other guy from San Diego too, If you're gonna put you're gonna take money out of seal beach where he's doing his surfing at six am, and you're gonna put him on a plane and send him to New England in December

This was the worst football game I've ever watched?

Is it?

Wow?

Six nothing?

Two field goals, two short field goals.

Yeah, that's I'd say from a distance, I'd kind of be into that kind of a game because it stands out is something very usual dog type of game.

You're right unwatchable.

How so, Bailey Zappi is in there, Yon Uh is a worse than Mac Jones. I think it's hard to detect who is worse because there's also nothing around them.

Uh.

They lost Formandri Stevenson with an ankleer injury pretty early in this and that's really all they seem to have. I thought Zappi's day was characterized by a pretty great deep shot in the third quarter the trailing six nothing horrible drop by Tykwon Thornton. It's like they just can't get anything done. The Patriots defense looked good because that's the Chargers. The Chargers are spiralingly a little on offense. They cannot run the ball, they have no balance the Patriots.

Know, weren't playing for the win. That remains like the jury is out.

In my opinion on that, that was drastic. I mean, it's kind of working out perfectly. They're so bad that they're probably gonna guess get snagged the number one number.

And I'll take it a step further. Everyone's connecting Belichick to the Chargers. I don't know whether there's actual logic to it, Well, there's logic but actual smoke to it, or if there's.

Fire to it or what.

But not only did you lose again, and it's it's remarkable how badly this season has gone. I never thought it could get this bad for Bill belichicking doing because no, and I'm not I don't even want to go down the road of like if he's really the greatest coach of all time, how could this be happening, because there's

Yeah, I went to Renferral, like wo Staley's defense just pitched the shutout.

No, so that's a thing like that is it's not all negative because I like I'm losing hope in their offense.

Quentin Johnson another terrible drop today.

Oh that was awful.

I mean, if it's happening every week, so I don't know if it's there's no new story there.

But Khalil Mack had two more secks. He has fifty. He leads the NFL with fifty.

When I saw that on Twitter, I was thinking to myself, Okay, we know he had that insane when he had seven, So that's always gonna juice it. But he has a chance to challenge for the all time sack record Khalil Mack, he's twenty three, Yeah, that could happen. He certainly could challenge for a twenty sex season, which only about what twenty guys or whatever.

All he's got to do is play Zappi and Indan O'Connell every week and he'll he'll get it done because Zappy, the little I watched, was just holding onto the ball forever on some of those plays. But this still fifteen sacks, No, Still,

But we could save this conversation.

But how is it?

How is Bill Belichick presiding over something this truly dreadful? How has this happened? How could it happen?

Well, it's been in the same place, and he has no checks on his power. And the few people that maybe not had checks on his power, but would you know, answer to him or like have some power in the organization.

They're all they're all long gone. Nick Casserio, he's long gone, Like they're all Tom Brady's long gone of course as well, that's for a long time. Yes, let's hear from Bill Belichick.

Awkward press conferences are the norm, and now you know he's forced to answer these questions about his own job security.

Bill, do you want to stay here and keep coaching the Patriots?

I look forward to this weekend right for a Steelers read that.

You know that's kind of a Bill answer, But it all feels like the beginning.

Of the end.

You and I are getting Steelers Patriots on Thursday nights in.

Oh yeah, a little trubisky zapp dog. How about this? The world is getting Jets Patriots in week eighteen. It's not like many people watch at the Earth like ready to eviscerate everything that lives upon it.

I take the medior.

By the way, the Chargers in the AFC at five and seven are two games back of a playoff spot. You can't totally ax them out. But if they were in the NFC, it'd say they'd have a chance. In the AFC, two games back with five games to play and a lot of teams to hop is a lot.

But can't do that.

They have to just win out essentially and go there, which they will not be doing they will not be doing that. Most likely.

We're in that of the year where we have these conversations and you're just waiting for the slow crawl of time to remove these teams permanently and mathematically.

All right, let's head to Tampa where the Panthers and Bucks did battle in the downpour.

The snap of Goodwin bell Hide dropping to throw Bryce Young flushed out of the pocket, flushed down the holds the ball upfield. It is in a sap that packed pop with the forty three yard line and John magnificent Antwuan wentfield want he was up. The whole hung theel was an inn second shaster down to the sideline and Young those a pick and the Bucks.

Happened the Great Jean decker Hoff with a call.

Yes, Antoine Winfield.

When it looked as if the Panthers could somehow find a way, Bryce Young threw it up for grabs. Winfield came away from the ball with the ball through the from the sideline, steps from the sideline, and the Buccaneers escape with a twenty one to eighteen.

Win over the Mori Bun.

The Carolina Panthers, playing their first game without Frank Reich.

So what to take away from this game.

First of all, let's let's look on Mike Evans.

Just when this game appeared to be slipping away from the Bucks and Baker was having a miserable game, he was averaging like four yards. In attempt, he hits Evans over the middle. Evans goes down the sideline like a house on fire. He dives toward the pylon. They mark him down at the one, as the officials often were today, they were wrong. He actually cleared the pylon and upon review, he gets credited with the touchdown as he deserves seventy

Because, I mean, you know, literally, Jerry Rice is one of the greatest players of all time.

But Jerry Rice had great quarterback play.

Around him, and he didn't do it to art the career.

This is a record in terms of starting his career that, like Evans, is just way ahead of anyone else.

I think one thing about Evans this year's simply because I remember they were just an unwatchable mess on offense for much of last season and it was like tons Tom Brady and Tom Brady and Evans were not on the same page. When Baker's been good, I mean, Baker and Evans have had a pretty good connection from wire to wire this season, and it's just another example of like Evans adjusting to whatever's around him and being that consistent.

Right, and he could he I think he only topped fourteen hundred yards once. He had a fifteen hundred yard season in twenty eighteen. I mean, he's got a chance to even get there this year. He's in a contracts on pace for about fourteen hundred yards. Yeah, he's in a contract year. Between him and Winfield, they actually have two teams, two guys that have a chance.

Evans probably isn't gonna.

Make All Pro because the receivers so tough to make that, but I think Winfield has a chance. I really have just been so impressed by Winfield each and every week. He had a sack, two tackles for the lost three passes defense, He had the interception eight times. I just haven't seen a more impactful safety. So that's been a weekly.

Thing with him.

He is Evans, and we'll move off Evans, but he is an interesting player, and he's kind of the fascinating greg when you get to your free agency one oh one. Yeah, I think age thirty one season, one of the most consistent players in the history of the sport, Like, what kind of market would he have Anyway?

The Bucks in the NFC South, which is bad.

As we've stated, that was only the second win for Tampa Bay in the last eight games, but now that they are in a tie for second place in the division, so they are in the mix. And it wasn't always pretty in this game, but they got the job done on the other side of the ball. No Basachia bump here for the Panthers, who were competitive in the rainy conditions, but they're still just you're not seeing anything with this offense.

Well, it's a lost year and it's like it's gonna be an off season of a billion storylines about how now he feels comfortable and it's it's a new start.

I mean, it's it's been a rough spot.

But like I thought that final, that fourth down game ender, like he had a chance to if he were little, if he were reacting more quickly to hit Adam Feeling it was like it shouldn't have happened the way it happened.

Like it was just anothers right, somebody's just.

Sort of like not really, there's not a part of it where you see. It's crazy to me that he outdueled if that's how you want to put it.

C J.

Stroud in the one time they met, like it was like the most atypical.

Game duel that strong.

You know, to go and have won that game.

It feels like four years ago.

It's out played slightly. I would I would say best game. I think usually out duled is like two y athletes playing on a high fifty the other.

I could be wrong. I don't think the Panthers scored a touchdown in that game. I believe they won with five field goals. But I was getting a lot of texts that you mentioned they didn't get the Bassachia bump. But according to our friend Spice Rack, the fired coach principal at least in terms of the desert is nine and oh since September twenty O.

I can't I can't fact check.

This mean he's including, he's including college, but Carolina kept it closer than expected.

It is my point here, you.

Don't get credit for the bassac bump when you lose. Now, this isn't We're not all in the desert. Okay, Now that's for teams that win after the firing.

I do want to use his comparison ails who win, because he was going nuts because he wanted the Panthers to do better and win this game, and at one point the fire, he was on fire, comparing Young to Bryce Young in terms of his body language, saying it was identical Bryce Young to Achilles Smith was his comparisons, but he wants to be anywhere by here. I will just push back just just a little slightly, which is just it reminds me a little bit, maybe because they're

And Eli and Jared Goff were close.

So all those guys were in a similar situation where they they showed almost no bright spots their entire rookie season.

So it's it's happened before.

There's something else here though, Like, yeah, you're right, and it's like there needs to be patients. But I really watch Bryce Young and feel like, to your point, Dan, like he plays small, and it's like, I don't know if he's not Eli Manning, you.

Know, his prototypical perfect quarterback type build.

Right, Like he is small. It is he plays small. He's small, and he's getting sacked. They're on pace to Carolina line is not helping him. He's on pace to be sacked sixty six times, which is almost the team record. So that's a recipe for disaster as well. Oh Man they are hot on our tails. Greg in the in the pits competition, they are right behind us now two games.

You should have seen a face when when you said us just now, He's like, what is this narrative?

Dan, You're wrong right now? Greg? And what is our record? Greg? Eleven?

And what are you talking? I'm eleven in one. You're one to o jumping on with me. Actually you're not because the one week I got wrong. Now the three of us all did it together. Well, there's a lot of different standings of play.

So I'm one and one when we picked, I'm talking one, and since I just got on the train, I'm one and one overall. After they blew up the entire operation, after the horrible Joe Burray injury designation UH fiasco. And then if you want to look at the the broader, I think I'm I don't want to eleven.

I don't want to look at the broader like I think this is a this is a farce.

You want to join the Rosenthal train because it was a it was a little bit of a bumpy ride today, but weed on the champagne and eating Caveo.

I locked up the Niners with confidence and never for a second had any concern about that.

Affair us job, that was a good luck get it. We all got done. Yeah, right across the board.

I'll travel my own path though, You're a brave man. Me makes second to last place.

So it's just me. It's Greg in the motorcycle and me in the sidecar.

This is one of the most bizarre podcast strategies you ever had. Storyline Right Sunday Night Football.

Three receivers right, shootable life, snapped to my homes looking, steps up, scrambling left, still looking still waiting, fires it into the end zone, broken up, incomplete and.

Dagger your dagger. The game is over.

The Packers have defeated the Chiefs twenty seven to nineteen.

I what a moment for this young team.

Wayne Laravie with the call for Packers Radio, and yes, it is a big moment for the green Bay Packers, a team on the rise now uh six and after a twenty seven to nineteen win over the mighty chief Well are the Chiefs mighty? I'm not sure about that anymore, but a big win for the Packers coming off obviously a huge Thanksgiving win over the Lions, and all of a sudden green Bay looks like a team that makes

I'm actually looking at it right now.

Boys, there were you can make the case that they blew five calls in the final sixty five seconds of the game. Patrick Mahomes scrambles out of bounds at the CAC forty for ten yards. They penalize Owen's on green Bay for unnecessary roughness. Bogus call, not the right call, not even.

A question, and was an emphasis on the by the rules committee in the offseason to not let quarterbacks bait defenders into those costs.

And they still Terry McCauley comes in for NBC says, hey, this is the wrong call.

This is that you cannot throw a flag here.

The very next play, Patrick Mahomes to Rashid Rice for ten yards, he's down by contact. They rule it a fumble that gets overt turned on review. But that even has a butterfly effect by missing that call and ruling rice up when the pall comes out. That leads to the Pachenko fight Isaya Pachenko fight where he takes a swing and he gets suspended. That's a missed call, overturned on review.

And that took about twenty seven minutes, it felt like for them to sort.

All that out.

Then you have Patrick Mahomes dropping back to pass and he unfurls a deep ball to Marquez Valdez Scantling a clear pass interference once again, no doubt about it. They do not throw the flag again. They bring in McCauley and McCall. He says, yeah, that is obvious past interference.

That's a blown call. And then finally, and I know.

This one is gonna be one, especially Packer fans are gonna say, shut up, Dan, but a hail mary throw and it's not really even a hail mary guys.

It was from the thirty three yard line.

Yeah, Travis Kelcey gets a two handed shove in the back as the balls approaching the end zone, taking him out of the play. And yes, Greg, you can say on that play, nobody throws the flag there but one.

He took the essentially the guy most capable of making that play out of the play with a two handed shove and two men.

I know, makeup calls exist.

If there's a way to make up for the MVS blown call, maybe you throw the flag there. But they didn't. And the packers of the Bend.

Well, they're all they're all humans, And I don't know who made them non call.

That's the problem. We got to get some AI refs in here.

I don't know who made the non call on the pass interference to uh vow the scantling should have been a pass interference. It was Corey Valentine that was in coverage. That to me in the moment felt like a makeup call, makeup non call essentially from the Mahomes because that happened right after the Mahomes which they blew that call.

It was brutal.

I don't know if they somehow knew that they brewed that call, but they were suddenly in the crosshairs.

It like they helped the Chiefs get to that point.

And then right after that was the throw down the field, and that was the one of all of these that was truly egregious.

And probably changed the game. I think it's worth going, Yes.

It's first and ten at the sixth Greg.

Okay, first goal, okay.

And they struggled twice in the red zone tonight, and they had to hit a two point conversion and there's overtime, so it changed how the whole rest of the game would have gone by just worth noting, like, you don't know that the result of the game is right, it's.

Still brutal, right, It's like we were saying, you know before we recorded, like it wasn't like any one of these calls is going to stir up like the competition committee to look at things differently. The combination of all of them, though, suggested officiating gaggle of officials who seemed completely.

Out of control.

There was just an air of like the game was melting down and it's like who's in charge here?

And why is this taking so long?

It's like none of it was so overly complex that it should have looked the way it did to us.

And when you got McCauley, I thought he did a good job.

He came on three or four times and forcedly said wrong, wrong call, And like, I guess for me the whole thing. They are human, but the concept of a makeup call is not how things should be done. Like it's like, if you made one mistake, you don't then allow yourselves to visibly make another right. So without telling us what's going on and just you just look, it looked like they were falling further and further from an element of control.

I think that MVS no call given the stakes is one of the worst non calls I've seen period. That was one of the worst blown DEPI calls you could possibly see. And the fact that it was dead center in the middle of the field, no question about it.

It can't happen.

And you know what I mentioned it earlier in this episode, I guess I had my eyes, Like on a typical Sunday, we're gonna have our eyes individually on about five games pretty closely almost every game I watched today, there were really bad mistakes being made by the officiating and I hate talking about this because obviously you want to focus on what Jordan Love.

And the packagers are doing about look at it to it.

We have to talk about it, and I know on Park Avenue that they're going to be talking about a first thing Monday morning because it's affecting the quality of the product.

It's just rare that there's two calls in that spot Patrick Mahomes in Lamboat Sunday Night football, the biggest stage. We have a really unique entertaining game, and that you have two calls and I'm separating the Mahomes hit out of bounds in the first pass in the past interference non call as just clearly wrong.

No one's gonna argue that we will see the pool reports.

They might be out by the time we finished talking these ten minutes. They will have to just admit we missed those calls. They were absolutely crystal clear, and that it's pretty unique. I can't remember any game in this sort of spotlight where there's a cavalcat of calls like this all in a row.

It was a pretty it was a pretty unique circumstance. The problem is they could admit after what we all see with our own eyes, I'm just guessing the night man. They try not to, but those two would be tough too.

It was just the lack of I wouldn't say the words accountability, but it's just like when this happens to a team and you get totally hosed on an island game on national television in a circus of officiating.

All just leaves you with is the loss.

Let's talk about the backers, and they deserve to lose too, by the way, Jeeves.

I don't like that.

I just mean teams frits out, players fritz out, coaches fritz out, and sometimes to your point, I think mark officials often fritz out too.

Yeah, but that I can't live with that.

Yeah, you know that's as a fan like, I want the officials to do their job and stay out of the way, and we're just never going to know, really how that game really should have turned out because the officials.

Ye.

All I mean is they were in that position where they had no timeouts, they had to drive the length of the field in one oh nine for a touchdown and a two point to tie.

So they had put themselves in that position.

They certainly did, and the reason they did is because, yeah, for the most part, Packers outplayed the Chiefs in this game, and you're seeing it in Matt Lafour by the way, the bearded boy himself sixteen and oh in December games. Wow, the Packers who were left for dead, I think they said on the game telecast, And it checks out because it felt that way once went forty days the season without winning a football game, and now they you can make the case that outside of the Niners, they're the

It's I think one thing that's wonderful about kind of covering the whole league versus just your team is that you start to see operations just grow up right before your eyes and it's Jordan Love and it's like the offense around him. And I thought tonight there were four or five throws, well, I can think of one to Christian Watson where it's like he is just throwing with intense like confidence and putting in like into tight windows. And there's a couple you know, there were a couple drops,

Yeah, I said, when they were at their nadir, I brought up how in the off season we said we're gonna learn a lot about Matt Lafleur, and I ended it with some smug little thing of like they are right now like one of the worst offenses in the league. Okay, right now, we're gonna learn a lot about Matt Lafleur this season, he has taken a young quarterback, and I

And I think you're right.

He's playing with such incredible confidence that when he's doing these back pedals and making these crazy throats like I'm almost surprised when he's not hitting him. These are all like chunk plays too, so like rookies Malik Heath and is that even a person Dontavian Wicks and just all these guys like fifteen to twenty five yard chunk plays.

It's pretty awesome. And it's gotten this bad for the Chiefs with their offense. If Patrick Mahomes is not handing the ball off, for getting the hand the ball in the hands of Jaco who's a very good running back, or getting it to Travis Kelce who's not you know, dominating at the same clip as past years, or Rashi Rice, who's a consistent guy for them.

Now it's bad news.

But limited consistently good, but limited.

Within the realm.

Like today he had eight for sixty four on nine targets, Like at least he's a guy that he's not a liability everyone else that he's trying to get involved, whether it's mvs who yes, got jobbed, but let's face it probably would have dropped it anyway, Richie James Clyde, Edwards, Lair sky Moore that route he ran on the Mahomes interception. I mean you just like, who do you trust Caadarius Tony, who's like not even on the roster anymore at this point. They they have work to do in the offseason to

And it's kind of a stunning subplot of this season.

They're really frustrating when they get into certain situations where in the past you could simply trust or you'd be a fool not to trust Mahomes to bail you out and to have some targets that would help you too. But it's like we're running out of time here. I like with the chiefs'll just we'll see where we are

So they finished the game so ugly, and that's what we remember three and out than the interception, which was going to be a tough pass, but more really did a terrible.

Job and it wasn't even greater.

And agree, yeah, he killed them by changing by slowing down on the route, and Keishak Nixon made a really nice interception too, that you don't see guys make a nice play like that, and then the way that game ended, I should know that. I mean, each of these teams only had seven drives. That is an exceptionally low number for both teams to have in an NFL game. So to me, this was sort of like an old Chiefs game where it was like, oh man, our defense thinks tonight,

We've seen a little leakage lately.

They've had some injuries at linebacker, Nick Bolton and Drew Treankoler out, so that that's part of it.

Brian Cook got carted out of this game.

They're starting safety, so that side of the ball might be creating a little issue too.

Here's the final stat Okay, it's from Tony Holzman Escarano. He is the NFL idiot, senior researcher Kansas City, and I know points per drive.

I understand it.

I'm saying they were pretty they were Okay tonight they were pretty good. I know it doesn't feel that way anywhere.

It is.

The Chiefs have scored fewer than twenty points in six games this season. The Chiefs had six such games and Patrick Mahomes's first five seasons as a starter combined.

Yeah, and it looks that way.

Eight in that fourth loss is big. They're now behind three teams in.

The AFC who have three losses Ravens, Jags we'll see on Monday night, and and the Dolphins and the Packers. Here at six and six.

You look at their schedule and all the projection models now have the Packers business as the favorite, as like a decent size over fifty percent chance to make the play.

You even think ru will be potentially in three weeks they're six and six. They play the Giants, the Bucks and the Panthers before finishing with the Vikings, and anything less.

Than two dubs there is the disaster. All right, the disaster this NFC, they'll be fine matter they could probably all right. Uh, Tomorrow, Monday, we got a doubleheader, we got the NFL plus Game of the Week. We'll be breaking down the niners dominant effort against the Eagles, and then Monday night football and news recap. I'm sure there will be maybe some follow up to everything we just talked about here coming out of Lamba.

Until then, you know what you got to do.

He the call.