2020 Fantasy Extravaganza

and why does the music sound like this? Greg's gonna ask after we're done recording. The reason is because this is a celebration. It's a celebration of fantasy royalty, and we're going all the way back to the time of kings and queens UH to give you the best best fantasy advice and insight possible as you get ready to draft in the next couple of weeks ahead of Week one kickoff. That's why it is the extravaganza. And we have an incredible yes now because I want to hear

the lineup. No, we have an incredible lineup joining us in a couple of minutes. We have the Great Adam Rank of NFL Network, another his pal, his colleague and our friend Marcus Grant also joining us. Liz Loza of Yahoo who knows her stuff. Evan Silva the big Fish joins us, and then Matthew Berry, one of the most well known fantasy guys out there, joints the around the NFL podcast Fantasy Extravaganza. I mean, Greg, how about that?

I mean you built who let's talk about it. You built wrote a world brick by brick, So I know that your standards are high when it comes to who the guest list is in an exercise like this, How you feeling right? I'm feeling ship her his tingles like the excitement. Not you know, I missed, I missed West Who you know, Chris Wesley who helped me build it. Fellow brick layer, you know brick by Brick at Road

to World along with Silva. Um. But I also I feel like this is a celebration because it's a culmination. It's a culmination of a seven year process of a man named Mark Sessler being out on a street corner, not even really not even really inside the Fantasy Extravaganza UM, a guy who thought of it. You know, fantasy heads were hobby horses as he waited um for some sort of world ending event to happen. And then here we are,

in the middle of a pandemic. The world event ending event is here, and there's Mark embracing fantasy like never before, looking for fantasy Street Corner, now fully gentrified, and he's in out of the cold, and he's talking a DP leading up to today's show. He's sitting in on mock drafts with strangers and now here he is with us for the first time ever on the Extravaganza as a

full time member. You know it was it was about fifteen minutes ago that I had to ask Greg, like, what is the sight that you used to get like the official a DP on these guys. So I really I view got you guys just like um, like my my parents taking me into into the big city for the first time, and I'm kind of holding your hands and like in all of the big buildings and busses. So you know, I I couldn't be more of a newbie. But let's give it a go. All right, this is exciting.

This is our sevent annual Fantasy Extrono Fanca and um without further ado, we welcome the man who was part of last year's event, which I believe was the annual Fantasy Extravaganza. He is the legend himself, Adam Rank. Oh, yes, the king himself, the man that mixes mirth with fantasy like no one else. Rank. What's up? What's going on? You know what part of me feels like I should be offended that I'm the curtain jerker on this show, Like you're going for the whole list of like all

the luminaries and then here's me coming out first. Hey, everybody stick around for Pablo friends, Like that's where you know, you know, these guys got to come with the heat. If we're asking you to do, you know you're not You're not Barry Harwitz. Rank don't know. That's it. That's exactly what I am. I am Hurricane Helms. I'm here to just look up at the lights at the end of the at the end of my three minute match,

and you're happy with all. Although I will point out that brock Lessner kicked off WrestleMania two years ago, so somehow in my mind, as I was waiting backstage in the green room, I had decided, like I'm the brock lessner of this thing. So it's a relevant it's a relevant complaint, Adam, I think you should you should maybe look into it. And why why if you go to a roast, you know, you go to one of those roasts or whatever, who do they have go this? Jessel

ended up? He doesn't start out. You start out big and maybe not the biggest, and goes goes first, which is fine. And I think that it's it's perfectly acceptable to be in awe of what Matthew Berry has done. And it's like, okay, but still I gotta go first, like that's just like and the thing is and it's not only that, and the thing that kind of got me the other day too, and like, listen, I love

matt Berry, like there's no disrespect. But Gardner mins Gardner Minshew is doing a commercial for an alcohol company and there's there's a contest. I don't want to say who it is. I don't want that. They didn't pay me to be in this commercial, so why am I giving them the rub? And Gardner Minshew who he name drops Matthew Berry and Gardner Minshew plays for Tony Cohn's Jacksonville Jaguars. And last year when we did League One, was there was there a w w E superstar on that show? No,

there was not. I went in the family, I had Code and Brandy Rhodes be a part of League One. And then there's a commercial with Gardner and I don't get to beat he he doesn't name drop me. How dare you deserve I get that I deserved the rub, Like, come on, Tony, I can just say my name. A wide variety of complaints here, you know, JOI, this is all yeah, there's like that's my normal role. Well you know what, Actually we had Sessler on the Fantasy Spectacular.

I mean he's still he mean when that's the synergy that we're looking for at him. They talk about that in our office when we used to go to an office, and I think that we we you know, we gave them a piece of pie right there. That's a big you know, I don't know. And now it's crossover. I love this. I love comes n I know, I know when it's it's like when the kids they used to

do this. And again, I'll go back to the wrestling analogies, because you know, the four people who've ever heard of me always know me for wrestling, and it's like when like when Ring of Honor guys show up a new jap Pan, it's like super cool. You're like, oh my god, here's Cody and he's you know, he's fighting the Rainmaker or whatever. It is, like, no one knows what you're talking about. You know. The four guys, the four guys who know who I am. Those guys they my Blue

World Order shirt is being blocked by this microphone. They still know what it is. That's that's how in tune they are to me and professional wrestling play the hits. I always say, you know, don't listen. They would be disappointed if I didn't do no disrespect. There's a great line There is a great lineup. Though I appreciate being on. Though appreciate you were here later and you killed it.

So we have to lead it off with family and ranks of perfect Choice and you know of all the great stuff you do both on NFL Network and by the way, check out I Believe and no it's not off brand. Does does the Fantasy Spectacular sound kind of similar to the Fantasy Extravaganza? Yeah, but the fantasy guys NFL media are doing their own thing, and they kill

this fantasy game weekend and week out. So make sure you check out the Spectacular, which just uh came out this week and one of your most popular things you do between just you know that it was amazing. He killed it. It was amazing and I couldn't stop watching it. If you watch the minute sizzle reel, Sessler is the headliner of that. See we didn't put Sessler first. We put Kyle Brandt first. We kept Sessler for the end,

which is kind of not what's happened. Right. Well, we've learned our lesson clearly how Rank expects to be treated when he's on the A T N pot and we will we will act accordingly in the future. Let's talk about don't be that guy. Because rankings is written work on the dot com, on the network. Don't be that guy with the draft coming up, get us, get us going, Rank, tell us how you should avoid being that guy. Don't be that guy. Well, thank you so much for that

that kind setup. And I know and anybody here's to who's listening for like sleepers and all that stuff. Listen there, you heard the lineup. There are people way more qualified than me to talk about that stuff. I'm more of like your friend who is there, and I'm trying to advise people. And I know a lot of you know, you have the huge UK audience, which is amazing, and I know a lot of them are getting into fantasy football.

So there's a couple of little tips I would like to tell them before they start their fantasy draft, because there's always gonna be one person who seems out of place, who seems like they're in over their head in fantasy. And if you don't know who that person is, then it's you. I kind of want to help you out. Now, that's the thing. Like these are it's well, it's there's so many things. Yeah, and so maybe I'm speaking to an audience of one right now. This is Mark Sessler

as he's getting down from four to one. Now, listen, anybody who sees me at the comedy store or flappers,

this is usually my thing. It's like there's one person who gets me in a room full of three hundred and I focus in on that person and they get like, oh, yeah, I killed I killed one guy, Like listen the other two nine nine They were like whatever, but why is he a copy of Catcher in the Ryan his pocket concerning wait, was that a throwback to that Melt Gibson movie, which was a throwback to the UH to remove Jodie Foster from society? So all right, right and call your

time is up here and listen. You're talking about world events. I'm talking about conspiracy theory, one of Julia roberts least known movies that I've seen a thount in times outside of motion. Okay, fair enough, fair enough, I'm sorry. I know that I'm supposed to I'm here for fantasy stuff. But this is why, this is why I was producing the show ahead of time, being like, not, you might as well not even planning me talking fantasy because it's not gonna happen. I'm gonna give you a couple. We're

gonna get it out of you. You're not gonna help that guy. Not the guy. Don't be the guy who keeps talking and doesn't allow the draft to start, because that always happens. Like somebody will come similar to what I'm doing right now, where somebody says there filibustering eating nachos and you're like, we're're supposed to start this draft twenty minutes ago, and you won't shut up about obscure movies or whatever it is. We have a draft. Some of us have families. We gotta go. But anyways, that

wasn't one of them. The first one, though, like sincerely, is always be prepared. And it always seems weird that I have to tell people this because even back in the day, and I think that Greg's old enough to remember when Fantasy Draft would kind of go like this, where you would be driving to your friend's house. You would stop by a grocery store. And I don't know if anybody remembers grocery stores, but you would go in there and buy a magazine and you can google that

or ask your parents what that was. You would buy a magazine and you would show up and you would go off these rankings that were written in March, you know, before even three agencies started, and you're like, oh, do I want to take you know, I'm gonna take DeVonta Freeman because they have him take here. You're like, yeah, by the way, he's not in the NFL right now.

That's the thing is that we have all this information at our disposal, that we have the all new NFL Fantasy app that not only has rankings in a DP mark. If you wanted to find a DP you could have gone to the all new NFL Fantasy Apple I'm there's a link in my i G bio if you want to go check it out and download, you can do that. You can also you can also win a Travis But now, listen, I'm not here to do plugs. I'm not here to put over the people who sponsor me or anything like that.

I listen, you gotta listen. You've got to be an influencer, Dan, this is what what is what I do? I mean, like, Fantasy's fine, but I'm gonna be an influencer. Listen. I'm gonna be living off Portillo's gift cards for the rest of my life. But I gotta make sure that I get all those plugs in in order for that to happen and feed my face, you know what I'm saying. That's why I'm saying to be prepared. Well, let me

ask you this. If if you're listening to this podcast right now, Rank and your draft is on Sunday night, is it already too late to cram? Okay, what's the best What's the most effective way to prepare? I would once again go and download the all New Fantasy app. You will have rankings there. You will have mock drafts. I don't like, I can't stress this enough to go in and do some mock drafts. You know, like when we're leading up to the actual NFL draft, you see

mock drafts. They're fun. This you can do for fantasy and try out a number of different things. Maybe in one time you're like, I'm gonna go running back running back here and see what my team looks like. Or maybe I'll start with the receiver in George Kittle and see which running backs I end up with. Or there's a number of different things that you can do. So you want to go in there and you want to be ready. You don't want to go in there and and be thrown off because you always want to be

like the Amiba you. You always gotta be moving, you gotta be fluid. You know, you can't let them. You can't go on tilt when something like if you're going into a draft and you're convinced like I'm gonna I'm gonna take Miles Sanders first in the first round to be at the end of the draft and if somebody picks him ahead of you, then you know, yeah, so you've got to be ready for that and be always be ready to go. And so that's why you want to be prepared. You don't want to be like that

kid who was in your math class. You remember the guy who would show up and he always had a gene jacket with a wool callar, we have we have a test today, bro, dude, can I borrow a pencil? Like? How is this possible? How do you not know? There's definitely not me. I was a schoolboy. Really, look at me like there was I had nothing going for me other than the teachers liked me. Like my if I pulled out my high school yearbook right now, it would be notes from Mrs White and a Miss Shoemaker like

hey you were such a great student, thank you. There weren't sponsoring you too, good teachers. Yeah, it's not like there were girls leaving me notes or messages or anything like that. It was the teachers, my friends. So don't don't be the guy that's unprepared. I hate that person. Up. We got a gag of del taco and you're not ready. You're asking the move on my phone? Okay? Sorry. Also, here's this is an actual legitimate fantasy tip. And this is for the newbies, This is for people. They need

to know this. Don't take a quarterback early, which goes counterintuitive to everything that you know about the NFL, where the quarterback is the most important position. Whereas in the NFL, if you draft Mitch Robinski and not Patrick Mahomes, you're probably not going to win. But in fantasy football, you can actually win by skipsey. Ryan Pace should be a fantasy player because that way, not taking Mahomes would actually

work out for you. Because last year. Listen, in the first five games of last year, Patrick Mahomes was playing at an m v P level. He was awesome, he was crushing it. He was still the quarterback five in fantasy. The guy who was number one was Lamar Jackson, who I drafted in the twelfth round. Like that is what And listen, we can talk about the theory of quarterback

points in anything like that. And I know it's stupid, and I know there's people out there who, look, dude, I won my league with Jamis Winston last year and that's the fantasy footballers and they suck. But no disrespect to them, though, but like there's gotta be there's none. No, there's gotta be something to Fantasy scoring was like jamis through four picks, how did he have his many points nearly as Lamar Jackson? Like that it system, it's a it's a it's a bad. It gets Chris wesleyan uh

all fired up that quarterbacks doesn't matter. I would argue though, like, wouldn't you say dump be the guy who has like some rule that they just stick to that rule, because as you mentioned, who was a bigger league winner than Lamar Jackson, People would have said you were the guy

that took him too early. If you just were, like, I believe in Lamar Jackson, I'm taking him in the fifth round and that would have been too like like that would have been fine if you, like you got lucky that no one took him before you in round twelve. But fantasy people were saying, you know, don't don't take him too early, anyone that just had a belief in him, And they were right. You couldn't taking him to early. You won you your league? Yeah, I know you you

comes the year before. That's fine, but you know what happened. You You could walk into in and out Burger and say I will give you twenty dollars for a double double, but you don't have to pay that. It's still three dollars, like you can still wait. So yes, there is a there's a counter balance right there of you know, counter getting the guy that you want, but not overspending, although I and I run into that too. In home leagues with like two of my friends, the Apollo Brothers, they

watch every episode of Fantasy Live. They read every piece of content I ever put out if I ever want, Like last year, that very situation worked out because in most leagues, I was getting Lamar Jackson in round ten, eleven or twelve. They drafted him or one of them marked it drafted him in the fifth round last year. So I'm like, I'm like, what happened. He's like, I've been watching your show, bro, and like this is the

worst thing. Uh. And I didn't win because I tried doing I remember when we were at Road or NBC Sport to that come there was an office pool and everyone's just using your rankings. It's very complicated. It's very complicated to draft against. That gives us one more problem. Time is my time almost stopped. Time's nearly up, So give us one more. You know what, I kind of want a piggyback on. What Greg is saying though, is that don't be afraid to play scared you know or

don't place. Don't be the guy who's too scared to make a move, and I you don't. I did get fortunate that somebody didn't jump ahead of me and take Lamar Jackson. And what we're seeing this year is Clyde Edwards Hilaire is going as the fifth overall pick in some drafts. And what I see these kids come onto my Instagram post and they're like, I go to see him play first, Like, guess what, You're not going to

get that opportunity. That's not happening in this world. You can't be afraid if you want to pick and be safe. And you you know who Todd Gurley is and you've seen him play, and you've seen Leonard for Nette, and you know what, enjoy fifth place because playing it safe will get you nowhere. Listen. I understand that there will be times that I finished in first place and there are times where I finished dead last. But I'm not

afraid to take my guys. So that's that is one of my real So don't be don't be the guy who's playing scared because scared money don't make money like that bugle? Is it a bugle? Trumpet? Who knows means more royalties entered the room and it is Adam Rank's colleague and friend, Marcus Graham. What's up, friends, after I'm excited to be here. That that was. I'm glad that was a welcoming sound. I was a little bit alarm. I didn't know what was happening at first. That's what

we're going for. I make a royal proclamation now, I hitty. I agree that Tyrod Taylor is getting my unofficial Hard Knocks Fantasy bump, just mostly because because that this quarantine style. I think it's primarily the reason Well nailed at Marcus that he looks like Donald Glover from This is America video. Rank, thank you so much again. You're not a curtain jerker. You're gonna be You're gonna be in the Saturday night main event headliner. Rank. I can feel it. Enjoying Marcus Grant.

Everybody have a good one. Alright, Alright, Adam Rank, we sent him up and now the stage is yours. Marcus. You know Tyrod Taylor is one of those guys happening again on the latest Hard Knocks every year. You just get sucked in because and it happened when he was on the Brown's Hard Knocks with Baker Mayfield behind him on the depth chart his leadership. You're sucked into it. What everything the coaches are saying, and you think you start to thank to yourself, Wow, this guy is the

greatest person, the greatest quarterback of all time. And then he's on another team the next year. But still he'll be playing in this league a long time in our league, because he's like a glue guy in a in a locker, in a quarterback room, even if he's not necessarily your starter, that that'll play. You're right. And it's funny because I have sort of, over the course of this fantasy draft season, sort of talked him up in my own head. Uh, No one was, No one was considering Tyrod Taylor early

in draft season. Then I start seeing the side by side statistical comparisons of him and Josh Allen, and the numbers when they were both Bills quarterbacks were fairly similar. And I keep saying to myself, well, great runner, how is it that that Tyrod is not getting any fantasy love, but we all love Josh Allen as an industry. As this kind of mid round guy who's ready to be a top ten fantasy quarterback. It didn't make any sense

to me. Now, I haven't been bold enough to actually put my money where my mouth is and draft Tyrod in any leagues, but I have told myself a story where he is going to be potentially a time thinking, isn't he going to get Mayfield the way he didn't October? That is sort of the thought process there that justin Herbert is just waiting for one slip up to come to come and jump in and take that gig. I

think that's what's held people back. But you know, Lookay, with no no preseason games and they limited offseason, ty Rock can hold onto this job for at least the first half of the season. You want to be like a last round QB two guy, which I used to like to do quick just wait till the last round, and he feels like a guy for that sort of slot. He's absolutely the guy for that slot. So, Margot, we're gonna talk about a couple of things. We're gonna get to the running backs in a second. But what is

your philosophy when it comes to the quarterback room. Do you you know I play in a two quarterback league, which I know is unorthodox, but we love it because that puts more importance on the quarterback in fantasy. And we talked about it just now with Rank and West's was yelling about it on Monday that the quarterback doesn't get enough love and fantasy and he's the single most important player in football. So when is fantasy gonna figure

that out? I guess having a two QB league addresses that on some front, but let's stick with the one QB league, which most people do. Should you wait on qbs or do you grab one of those top tier talents? Uh? If if they're there for you. I have started to kind of shift my philosophy on that because I was, you know, sort of like everybody else. Do you wait on a quarterback crowd? Um? Yeah, you always find those guys.

I always had that guy that I would refer to as the patron saint of the Church of Wit on a quarterback. I mean for years, Uh, it was like Philip Rivers, it was Matthew Stafford. I think Tom Brady has sort of graduated into that category. This year down there in Tampa. But last year I really got to a point where I said, look, if you were going to draft a quarterback early, go get yourself a good one. Now. At the time when I said that, I was thinking

about Patrick Mahomes. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that I I predicted Lamar Jackson running for twelve hundred yards and lighten the world on fire. Um. But I really did feel like, and I agree with West completely. I don't understand why it is if we all agree that Mahomes is awesome, that Lamar Jackson is awesome, why it's considered a tactical disadvantage to go out and draft

those guys. So I started to come around. I can't say that I've reached early enough to get a Mahomes or Jackson in a lot of leagues, but I feel a lot more comfortable and sort of those you know, I guess early middle rounds, if you will, round five, round six, whether it's Dak Prescott, Russell Wilson, is a name that I like a whole lot. Um. I do feel some guilt into talking up Kyler. I think Kylar

murd is gonna be great. I think we have talked him up past what potentially his draft value could be. But I think he's another reasonable option to take if you're looking in around five, six or seven to go get a quarterback. I wonder, I wonder if someone one thing on quarterbacks. I wonder if Aaron Rodgers has graduated into that second tier now in fantasy dress, if it's finally people where this, yeah, it's happens. I think for years we sort of left him in that top tier,

and I think it was sort of muscle memory. We're just used to talking about Aaron Rodgers so long there. But I think what we've seen, especially last year, even the last couple of years, is that he is starting to kind of fall off that pedestal. And I think, uh, you know, I think the fantasy community and just drafters as a whole have sort of caught up to that, and so he's not getting just reflexively picked in the

first five rounds like he used to. I would I would ask you this about running backs because it's not a question about bus but when you look at certain UH teams the way they're assembled, I think of Buffalo's backfield, you've got Zack Moss, who's you know, gaining steam by the week from reporters and camp. You've got Devin Singletary there,

the Pats backfield, the Ravens. Like, do you have teams that you know, when you're looking at who you're gonna draft and what target running backs you're gonna target early, You're just I'm not touching this team because uh, you know, it's just it's too cloudy and we're drafting three days from now. Or do you just say, I like the idea of this guy, I'm gonna go for it no

matter what. It's Zack Moss, it's filling the blank. Jonathan Taylor. Yeah, No, there are there are back fields that I have just generally sort of avoided. The Rams is the one that is top of mind for me. Um Whatever Sean McVeigh has asked about his running backs, I mean he will mention literally everyone. I mean he'll talk about Cam Akers,

He'll talk about Malcolm Brown and Darryl Henderson. I really feel like he might have brought up Zack Stacey and Gaston Green at some point over the stac has been in the game a long time, so like I feel like I just I can't get on respect. I'm done here, I'm gonna take off the headset and walk away. Now. I just I've been able to stay away from that backfield because I just haven't really been able to get

on board with it. They're one I feel like in the past, uh that applied to the forty Niners and just a Kyle Shanahan backfield. Although I feel like we've gotten a little bit more clarity over the years. Um, I will say with you went in Baltimore, I still went in on mark Ingram. I think the J. K. Dobbins time starts sort of next year and beyond, but I still think mark Ingram has a role. I look at Buffalo as sort of a mess because I like Devin Singletary's talent, but it just doesn't seem like the

Bills are that into him. They keep putting obstacles in front of him. First it was Frank Gore, who is going to live forever? Uh you know, Now it's Zack Moss who's going to get those goal line carries? So there are you are right, There are backfields you look at, and it's just it's so cloudy for me that I

attended to just be hands off. It's something. There is a point I think where that you become so prevalent that if you gotta take on a player, go for it, like you don't have to, you can make a cho I love cam Akers. I could be wrong, Um, I could be wrong in terms of the usage for sure, but I just think he's a great player and and

eventually guys like that will end up having value. And if if you're a player, you might not agree with that one, but you might have a backfield, like if you might have a guy in New England that you like, whether it's James White or Damon Harris, or you might

have a guy. And I don't think like people should be afraid just because you don't know who's gonna get it week one, by week four or five, everything's gonna be scrambled so much anyways that sometimes like there's a little bit of a week one bias in these drafts where everyone is thinking about week one, week two. Well. I think the upshot there though, is is because we get so much talk about, you know, uncertainty in backfields

and no real clear number one. I think what ends up happening is that everybody stays away and then the adp falls for these guys and I always say that everybody is a good pick in the right spot, right. I mean, if you if if Kim a Ers or Darrell Henderson falls enough, sure I'm willing to take that shot and see what happens with it. But if you're asking me if I want to take a chance I can makers in the sixth round, I'll tell you that

I don't feel confident enough for in that space. You know, I'm I'm going after for Henderson, say in round nine or ten. Um. You know, so if if we if we create enough confusion, if we're blowing up smoke, maybe it does kind of help everybody else because that ADP starts to come down. Marcus, we have, according to our own NFL Fantasy A DP rankings, we have one, two, three, four, or five six players at the running back position going in the top ten of drafts right now, McCaffrey, say,

Quan Zeke, Alvin Kamara, Derrick Henry Dalvin Cook. Of those stars, which is the one that you are maybe the most nervous about, and conversely the one that you're like, oh, lock and loaded, I have no worries that this guy is gonna disappoint me. Well, I'll start with the positive. First. I mean the guy that I am look see him c is on a completely different level right now because he's the closest thing to a one man offense we've

seen in a while in the NFL. But the the other stud that I am all in on is Alvin Kamara. Um I think right now, I think you had him is one fifth. I think on that list, I have been taking him with the third pick and a lot of drafts. I mean it's it's generally been on most drafts. C MC one say Quantu and I am right there to grab Camara at number three. I mean yeah, uh yeah, I had Yeah. I like Zeke. I think I think he's fantastic, but I do see that offense kind of

becoming more Dack centered. Uh And plus Tony Paula is gonna sneak in there, I think, and get some work. Camara is a guy who want just lock him in for eighty one catches, right, I mean that that is the that's the number every year for him. So far this year he still gave you pretty decent numbers despite not being healthy. I think you know he'll see his touchdown numbers come back up again. So I am not

worried about him at all. The guy that I am a little bit worried about it's probably Derek Entering, just because what he did last year was was outstanding. It was great that they decided to lean on him and give him those opportunities. But he doesn't catch the football, which is something we really want, especially out of a guy you're drafting in the first round of your your fantasy leagues. Um, he's just not going to get those targets in that backfield. The other part of it is, uh,

you look at his rushing totals. First of all, he had a two hundred yard game in Week seventeen, which helped absolutely no one because pretty much all fantasy leagues are over. So that's that's something to take into account when you look at him this year. The other part of it is the touchdown numbers were really high, which is great. It also seems like it's something that's gonna be very hard to duplicate, especially if the Titans really are all in on Ryan Tannehill and trying to give him,

you know, more responsibility in that offense. I think Henry is gonna be a top ten running back when it's all said and done. I would prefer to draft him more early second round in late first round. You might have an argument from from the big Fish coming up a little later. I know he's a big fan of the big Dogs, so we might have to bring that up. You you had, you're talking running backs, and those top

guys are all, you know, pretty bulletproof. But I I do have an issue looking at the ADP this year that my biggest takeaway looking at it for the first time, like this week, was all these trashy running backs going in the second, third, and fourth round, and I don't I just don't get it. We're gonna talk receivers later with Liz Losis, so we'll leave that to the side. But I just don't get taking kind of bad players just because they're running backs in the second or third

or fourth round. And I'll give you names. Gurley is like the most obvious one that I'm sure everyone's mentioned. Um, but Kenyan Drake. I love Kenyan Drake like as a player, but that seems a little a little wild considering his history. David Johnson, David Montgomery. Now his injury will kind of

knock them down a little bit. Like four NET. It's just like I know, I know that average draft position tells you, and some of the the analysts tell you, but it's like, why take pretty mediocre players when there are like great players still available that scored just as many or more points at the receiver position. Well, I think you have quite a bit of wish casting going

on with some of these guys. I mean, you know, in the wise words of rust cold time as a flat circle, right, we started this thing where running backs were going to be coming off the board fast and furious in the early rounds. Then as PPR became more of a thing, we sort of pivoted to wide receivers. Now we're back to running backs because a lot of them catch passes and that certainly inflates their value. But we've also sort of started to reach for guys that

we think could have workhorse roles. And I think, you know, we have told ourselves a story with some of these guys that maybe isn't exactly true. I mean, I I will admit to being a guy who was big on Jenian Drake just seeing how the Cardinals used him in the back half of last season. And I haven't quite bought into this idea of Chase Edmunds eating into that workload the way Cliff Kingsbury suggested. Look, Cliff Kingsbury certainly knows better than I, but you know who am I.

I'm gonna tell Cliff Kingsbury. I think you're right. That's the one guy of that list that I would say I has a chance to be awesome. It's like the other guys have kind of shown who they are. Believe him, Yeah, I think so. I mean I think with Girly, you know, I think early on in this offseason I sort of thought Girly maybe had an opportunity because I felt like the Falcons would use him more as a pass catcher, which is something the Rams just sort of abandoned last year.

But uh, you know, hearing that when you talk about yards per route run, which is one of those advanced metrics that we like to look at, uh talk Gurley was dead last among all running backs last year, that that's no boy, no, uh. And I think that's something to take into account when you figure they also have, you know, Julio Jones and Calvin Ridley, and they add Hayden Hurst. They've got other guys to throw the football too.

So girlies one for net is one that I've sort of stayed away from because how can I like a running back that doesn't seem to be liked by his own team? So yeah, I I Greg, I totally get where you're coming from. But I do think because we have gone running back crazy in the early round, we have to kind of reach for some fringe guys and try to, you know, tell us a story to make ourselves feel better about where we're taking them. I had

a quick one for you before we go here. Trades, all right, whether it's for running backs in season or whatever, how do you not be the dude that you always see these like these tweet will be out there on someone just getting absolutely fleeced in a trade and it's embarrassing their friends abandoned them, Their children are embarrassed having their parents. How do you not get fleeced in trades? If you're a new player, what's your fear? Culton and

Luke just being like you traded traded away? Hopkins father? How do you just not be you know, become a total du fist? So how do you make sound transactions? Well? I mean, I think the first thing I think that I tell everybody is is this about fantasy football or like just life advice. Right now? How am I getting there?

I was like, my first piece of advice to everybody is don't worry about who wins the trade, right, Like, I get a lot of tweets where people, you know, show me the deal and they're like, well, who wins this deal? And my answer to them is like, don't worry about winning the deal. Worry about improving your team. That should be the first thing you look at when

you make a trade. If you feel like you have filled a position of need, if you feel like you've gotten stronger in a certain spot, then you know, the hell with what everybody else is gonna say about it,

Just feel like you got better now. At the same time, uh, you know, it does sort of make sense to look at production, your past production, and what the potential outcome can be for that player, um, because you know, obviously you don't want to give up a Derrick Henry type and you know in return, get you know, the third wide receiver, you know, get a get Dante Pettis. Right, if you don't want to, you don't want to make that sort of deal. It usually does two for ones.

The two for ones when you're getting the one you want to be the one, right The only that is that there. There are plenty of times you make a trade and at the moment it sort of looks one side, but then something happened. Either a guy loses his gig, he unfortunately gets hurt, he just underperforms, and then by the time it all shakes out at the end of the year, that trade ends up looking a little bit

more even than you thought. So I guess that's just a way of saying, just ignore the knee jerk haters on Twitter because they're always going to be there. Your children will respect you by the end of this. Look at the stats. Finally, uh, Marcus in the running back category, who's telling the truth about Lebian Bell's hamstring? Levyan Bell or Adam Gates. I will say that one h Adam Gates, I know, doesn't have the best track record amongst us

fantasy types, that we don't necessarily trust his word. But at the same time, Levian has a tendency to exaggerate over social media, So uh, this is one and that I think I am I am you know, I'm gonna have the the Bill hater popcorn meme. I'm just sitting back in sort of watching the whole thing go down, and I am not quite inside in this. What do you think about Bell? Because a couple of years ago

he's the best fantasy running back on the planet. Last year was a mess, but we've had reports before Wednesday's developments that he's the best shape of his life and he's got a lot to prove and the offensive line is better. Is he a guys stay away guy for you or a guy you thinking up? I know you probably don't want to hear this is a Jets fan, I want them to. I want them to trade Left Bell.

I want him back into our fantasy lives because look, I looked at the the guys that I know, the Adam Gates expats from last season, right, whether it was Ryan Tannehill, Kenyan Drake, DeVante Parker, all these guys who got out from underneath him and then had some of the best years of their life. I think Left still has something in the tank. I want him back in my fantasy life. So if if they can find a way to look as a USCLU, I want the same

for Sam Donald. I just want good things for these guys, and I just don't think it's gonna happen under Adam Gates. Yeah maybe maybe maybe next year, maybe next decade, who knows. All right, Marcus Grant, you've said it all. Well, thank you so much for joining us. And again, um, long have you been at NFL Network? Mars, This this is season number at you just like Mark and Dan. There you go. Grant Grant knows his stuff. You can check them out an NFL network and was writing on NFL

dot Com, following on Twitter. Thank you, buddy and best of luck this season. Stay healthy, guys, be good. You know what that sound means. It's another regal guest on the Fantasy Extravaganza and she is one of our favorites. She knows her stuff. She works for Yahoo Fantasy. But right now she's going to speak to us. Liz Loza, what's up, Liz? Oh, Hello, I've never felt so regal

wearing elastic waistband pants for six months. This is fantastic. Yeah, I mean this is We've decided that it's kind of all royalty here, uh for this Fantasy Extravaganza this year. And Liz is you know, covering fantasy from every angle at Yahoo and you could follow her at Liz Losa underscore ff and for this part of the conversation, Liz, I mean, first of all, how are you doing everything? Okay, yeah, it's great, best You're ever right, and I know I'm

very honored. Let me just say to be here because well, I am no big fish. My only hope is to be like a prognosticating mermaid of some sort. We can use that coming up a little bit later on the show. But just being on this show means you're a big fish. We were looking for, you know, any way we can help widen the divide between you and your Yahoo colleague Matt Harmon. So choosing you to come on to represent Yahoo that was really well. Plugging his name certainly helps

my cause. I suppose I know he'll appreciate that. You said the prognosticating mermaid. Sure yes, spell casting yeah or not? I guess maybe could work. It has fins. All right, let's get into it. List. So we want to talk a little wide receiver with LOWSA. Liz could uh speak on any topic, but we're gonna d drill in now on wide receivers on draft day and making sense of the positional group. Um, So when you look at the

well let's start here. When you look at the overall group, I think everyone kind of decided, and with good reason. Michael Thomas is the guy. He's the number one guy, But I feel like he gets a little murky after that. So in terms of the top ten before we dive in deeper, how do you see that shaking out? If you're somebody that's looking at target a wide receiver and Michael Thomas isn't an option, well, I don't really think

it much matters for fantasy, frankly. After after Michael Thomas, you've got Davante Adams, who I think you know could have been the wide receiver one last year were it not for some bad luck in the end zone, frankly, and I do expect his touchdowns to rebound quite a bit in But honestly, this position is so deep, and if we're talking draft strategy in comparis, and running back is so stinking shallow that I am willing to forego elite talent at the top in favor of hammering the

running back position. So the top ten guys Thomas, Davante Adams, Tyreek Hill, DeAndre Hopkins, Still, Julio Jones, Chris Godwin, I like a lot. I haven't ranked as my wide receiver six mostly because of his versatility. I like him well ahead of Mike Evans in fact, because while Mike Evans is absolutely a deep threat, that has negatively affected his efficiency even with the upgrade and quarterback from Winston to Brady.

But you're basically on Evans to me, counting on touchdowns right because of that giant wings fan and red zone potential. But Godwin can do all the things. And when Gronk is in the picture, I have to imagine, especially week one, they have got the Patriots, I'm sorry the Bucks to have the Saints. The Saints have that really amazing pass rush. To me, that's a lot of Brady checking down to

his favorite, most reliable options. So I think Grount could be a very big um hero in September, early season hero. I imagine him catching a couple, maybe even two spikes week one as Brady is feeling that new sort of pressure. So I'm not sure, at least on the top of things, and obviously in fantasy you want to win out of the gate early Evans is going to be as reliable or really r o I on his top You know what, does he. I think he's second round draft potential, so

those top ten guys up until Chris Godwin. I like him if you have the ability to swerve and you can find, but still had much rather hammer the running back position and then wait until maybe even as late as round five to start loading up on wide receiver feels like so long though, I like it feels like like a I was gonna say, like, I like a higher if you want to take a running back in the first four rounds, like three of those first four rounds, and if you're not going to settle on one of

the elite tight ends like Kiddle or Kelsey, so like, if you're drafting under the third or the fourth spot, I really like taking Kiddle or Kelsey for the advantage in the second round, back of the second round. But if you're drafting at the back of the first round, I would prefer maybe waiting on and if you wanted a high floor receiver, getting someone like Alan Robinson right like he's going to see a hundred thirty plus looks again this year. I like the volume. We know his

amazing talent. I also I'm not so worried about Keenan Allen. I feel like his ADP has slid tremendously because people are over adjusting for the change in quarterback. But Alan is a talent, and talent breaks all the ties. He's an incredible route runner. Mike Williams has this shoulder issue. I think Keenan Allen in the fourth round is a

really great wide receiver. One as a stable wide receiver, and then you can start again loading up on the position with more higher upside guys like Calvin Ridley and all these. DJ Chark is wildly undervalue. You can w with some respect on DJ's name. Like everyone's talking about ter Lauren. It's the same argument, put a little respect on his name. I'm with you on like the depth there.

And I was always into you know when I when I did fantasy that it's like you draft players, you don't draft positions, and uh, it feels like especially this year where everyone's drafting running backs early. I don't know, the players just seem better at ride receiver, Like maybe you take one running back in the first round and then after that. I just have a feeling like the value,

especially in those middle rounds. I looked at those guys you mentioned, a couple of them feeling would be one Adam Feeling, oh B J Keenan, Allen Lockett, Alan Robinson, Sutton Cup like a J. Brown. Those guys are all gonna show up. They're all gonna show up, They're all gonna produce. It's a passing leg if you're playing PPR, It's like they're all gonna put up points every single week. Whereas most of these running backs are good in the first round and then they're bad. Draft good players don't

draft bad players. I mean the one who I'm just saying receivers are so deep, I think we're pretty close to the same here that basically there's so much value in all those guys from three, four or five six, you know, in all those rounds that it just would be like hard to pass them up when you're looking at these like kind of trash running backs, like who would you rather have in real life? That's going to come through every week? And that that part of it

really dry up after round four. I mean, are you gonna are you gonna stake your fantasy claim on like J. K. Dobbins because you hear he's blowing up in camp when mark Ingram is like all of a sudden j. K. Dobbins, who's incredible arky, But I liked him coming out of the draft or coming into the draft rather ahead of DeAndre Swift. I love his skill set. Also a great

past productor which no one talks about. But do we really think that Ravens are gonna shy away from mark ingram something that works so well last year just because the rookie looks good right away. Yeah, you gotta hit out some running back. You gotta hit him some running backs late. But I like kind of the idea of taking guys that you know are gonna be be good.

And I also like the idea of zigging, where all the fantasy heads or zagging, you know, so if it's a year then everybody's taking running backs early, then you do the opposite. Doing the opposite is always a good draft strategy. I feel like I want to ask you this is because you know, this is a weird year and you know, strange offseason, and there may be casual players that are saying I don't have time for fantasy this year, or it's it's not the top thing on

my list. But let's say you dive in. You follow all this draft advice everyone's always concerned about the draft. There's all this hype about it, and then obviously, like six year players you know, fade away with knee injuries and shoulders falling off their off their bodies, and then you gotta then you gotta deal with the regular sayson

roster management? How what? How? What is your advice? Because there's all this draft advice, But when you're in week three, your team has fallen apart, how do you how much time do you need to spend? How would you approach that you got kids at home? Things are crazy like and you've got some hyper falling off people's bodies that you've got some you got you got some super nerd in your league who's up at three twenty two, like,

you know, taking stuff off the waiver wire? How do you do it in a weird fantasy and a weird Corona year. Well, listen, if you are a parent, do not draft in the league without parents this year because they're gonna have an immediate advantage on you. Just just that, I'm sorry. If you don't have any yes, yes, never more have freedom and finance has been more pronounced than in parents. But why are your children like bound and gag in the in the video behind you. I just

noticed them in the corner. They're they're very well behaved. I would say so. Yes, like this year, especially when you're adding into potentially even players landing on the COVID list, right, You're gonna have to work the waiver wire. This is a fact. There's no I'm not gonna try to, you know, sprinkle some pixie dust on this and say like, no, no, you're gonna have to work more this year. But will I What I will say is, don't you want to

do something? Don't you want to distract yourself from all of the maudlin maccabre ish that's going on around you. I mean, I have become a Denver. I'm not sorry. I've become a Utah Jazz fan. All of a sudden. I'm watching the Utah Jazz. You know why? Because it lets me escape. So if you want to work the waiver wire at three o'clock in the morning instead of laying awake staring at the ceiling thinking about how the world is grumbling, fantasy footballs for you? Yeah? Wait? Why

the Jazz? You just you? Are you from the area? Kid man? That Mitchell kids two? Nice to lift it up? And I like the orange uniforms, the whole thing. I know you guys have a don thing, but you know, no, no, we're we're big in our Our last producer was was Mormon, probably a big jazz fan. So it all, it all connects. And I'm not I'm not Mormon at all. Why do you assume that Sydney was a huge Utah jazz fan because because he's from Utah, you know, but there's no

from Salt Lakes. You know who's from Utah. That's the one team you have. You better route for them, Liz. Let me, let me throw out some wide receivers that are going to give people pause and they're gonna think, oh, he could be awesome or he could end up killing me. Uh coming off a bad year injury wise and quarterback wise. Juju Smith Schuster, I think Big Ben is healthy. I did a series of articles called rest versus Rust with the help of an orthopedic surgeon at USC. He's also

the team. It's not a brag, it's a resume, baby um And so I think Big Ben is going to be healthy. She'll be healthy enough. I'm not worried about the elbow. I think Ben have being back unlocked a lot of fantasy potential. I'm not worried about ju Also, Jujuna is allowed to primarily perform in the slot which he has vested doing, especially when you look at you know, Deonte Thompson coming on and being able to hold it

down on the outside. And so I think that gives Juju an opportunity to return to doing what he does well. I have him ranked inside my top twenty. I think he bounces back, all right. How about the Sessler's Golden Boy Odell Beckham Jr. Any idea is not my golden I want to hear what you have to say here though, so oh b J. I did a pro ject fearless forecast for him, a projection. It is tough because you cannot deny the talent. And yet he was not healthy

last year. He reports to be healthy this year. You know, I do think there is a bounce back there. I am going to believe, especially when you look at the way he played um dealing with that core surgery, that core malady whatever it was, hernia sports hernia. UM. I think he is going to be healthier, and if that is true, then he will be electric. I also think you're probably going to see some of that production come down because we know Stefanski loves to run the ball.

Though as much as people talk about unfriendly run first offense, you also like, this is still a passing league, right, so that we know that they're still going to be points available. So I think he bounced backs, but I think when you deal with ob J, you're dealing with variants. But that is baked into his current what like where

where is he going mid like late fourth round? He seems to me he would be on my list if I don't you know, rank had the list of the guys that he absolutely loves league when and O b J would be near the top. Sometimes I think fantasy don't get too complicated. You buy low, sell high. And this is like an unbelievable player who only one needs to do what he did in his terror, you know, in his supposedly terrible year last year to live up

to that draft building. Anyways, like he if you got a thousand yards and what he got in the draft him that you'd be fine with that. And there's a pretty solid chance that he just you know, rips the league apart, because we've you've seen it happen before I would say real had they had no TIT production last year. I think Austin Hooper is going to have a huge

year there. He has been their best player in camp, and I think that's gonna pull away from Landry and O b J. How about the trio of rookies Jerry Judy, Henry Rugg ceedee, lamb. You can only take one, they're all there for I'm taking Brian Edwards, so it doesn't matter. Give me Michael Pittman and all those guys too. Yeah, Brian Edwards, nobody's talking enough about him over Jerry Judy, both those guys. Yeah, how many? I mean, I appreciate that.

I appreciate that Elway is trying to write all of the previous wrongs with giving Drew lock zero excuses this year in a million pass catchers, But like, what can we really predict his good volume? Like we know Courtland Sutton as good as what as good as what he does, but he's not particularly flashy. Noah fantais in the picture got Cage. There's just so much going on there that I'm not sure that we're gonna see enough volume from him as precise and as much of a technician as

he may be. I just don't think for fantasy purposes, not real life football purposes, he's going to be impactful, ceedee lamb amazing. But again, you know you've got Blake Darwin truth. There's chatting up his target volume. So there's

like questions, questions there too. Henry Ruggs obviously, like if we're looking at the Raiders, Ruggs is obviously meant to be the superstar of that receiving corps, right, But Brian Edwards is the Brandon LaFell esque workman who can do the dirty work and let the dude on the other side of the field shine. That to me is the guy reports I can't by the way he's heading up over. He's beaten Tyrolle Williams Williams and now has another malady,

another injury that he's gonna try to play through. That doesn't sound great. Derek Carr talking about how he is already gaining trusted Edwards Gruten talking about fast tracking rookies. Like, to me, Brian Edwards is going to be the real fantasy story. Not the flash that's from the mermaid, that's from the prognosticating mermaid herself. She had got no feet, but she's got takes and the seats and all the other good stuff. All right, Liz, thank you for joining us.

You're a marvel. You're great at your job. You're a working mother, which I have endless respect for during this time a pandemic. Thank you for everything. Before Liz gets out of here, you gotta tell the story of how we met. Oh sure, so all right, I mean it's it's all very foggy, I have to admit. So about we were flying home from the super Bowl from Miami the day after the super Bowl. Everybody is like, haggard, I don't. I mean, I barely am clothed, like just

dragging my body into the row. And I sit down and I recognize this woman and my producer, Jackie Pepper, is sitting on the aisle seat like super free to playes and so she needs the aisle and I'm like, I'm going to had two kids. I need to peel all the time. But fine, So I sit down in the middle Jackie Jackie, She's I'm sitting actual and I'm like, this woman is so familiar. She's so familiar to me.

And then it clicks and I'm like, are you ricky Hollywood, and she's like yeah and UM, and so we start chatting and I talk about, you know, I'm friends with West, and how Mark Sessler had been on a podcast back when I had my own indie podcast, the Exes and Wise Podcast, And then I do think at one point Jackie just keeps talking and Ricky is like talking, and I feel like I'm going to pass out, and I just say, you guys, I'm I'm done, Like I need to close my eyes and I don't want to I

don't want to talk anymore. And I slumped over and slept front the rest of the Yet. Yeah, all three of us tough, tough shape. That that flight back. If you want to see NFL reporters, media people at their very worst, look look how they are on Monday morning after the Super Bowl. That's that's always a takeaway, all right, list, thank you so much for joining us, and again, follow Liz all season long for fantasy advice and life advice because she can give it out and she does it well.

Thank you, Liz, Thank you, thank you, Thanks Liz. We got more royalty. He is the man that helped build roadal World brick by brick with Rosenthal and West and then he went out out in his own with Levitan, establishing Established the Run, which is now one of the great fantasy sites out there. He is the big fish, Evan Silva, Welcome back to the podcast. This is like our fifth year in a row that we're doing. This isn't we're getting old. I feel myself getting older, and

you're not as big anymore. It feels like you're you're trim, you're looking in shape. I know you're not happy that Matthew Berry is coming on after you though, I'm gonna get some water. He was gonna be I thought he was gonna be opening for me. I knew, I knew that would be an issue. That's on Erica you can

discuss with her. Thanks. Thanks, all right, So Silva, you are you know, obviously you're turn your body into a shrine according to the video chat, but that does not stopped you from doing the work on the fantasy side of life and so much great stuff. Unestablished a Run could not recommend it enough. I'm a subscriber, so I know you initially hooked us up a little bit, but I have since subscribed and I'm paying you for your content.

I just want you to know I appreciate it smartly. Alright, So you have a couple of pieces um out you have the your sleepers, an undervalued calm, you have um bus out there. Um, let's start with the sleepers and undervalued, though, I mean we could go in so many directions. You have guys that you absolutely love, but I do love where you start in your column at Will Fuller because I thought you were maybe Evan I don't want to get you angry, but maybe overvaluing him. It's that always pretty, um,

Will Fuller. Yes, the ceiling is high there with DeAndre Hopkins gun and his natural ability which is vast, but the guy has always hurt and I don't know if you put enough into that, which is his injury issues which are kind of a big deal. It put plenty

into it, and so does the entire community. Because so I think I'm a big believer that in the rounds one through let's say four, that you should really be incorporating downside of the player into your draft evaluation of the player, and you should be thinking about um, you know, risk reward once you start to get into rounds five, six, seven, and will Fuller's ADP is in the six and seventh round. Right now, I think you really start just hammering upside

and you concern yourself less with injury floor. Last year, Allen Robinson, I thought was it was in a very similar situation. He was the number one by a cross fantasy formats that established the run, whether it be redrafted wrong league, whether it be dynasty leagues, be coming off a little bit of an injury laden UH first season with Chicago. The year before in Jacksonville, he didn't even play at all. He played like what two snaps and then towards a c L people were worried about his

quarterback situation. We crushed on that. Will Fuller has replaced Allen Robinson as a number one by across formats. UM. I understand the injury risk, but that is baked into his average draft position. We're pulling DeAndre Hopkins out of the Texans offense. He averaged ten targets per game that freeze up ten targets per game in an explosive passing offense quarterback by Deshaun Watson. And one thing that I like to bet on UH in fantasy and have had a lot of success betting on over the years is

quarter established quarterback to pass catcher connections. Look at the rest of the Texans pass catcher corps. Shaun Watson really doesn't check down to r v's. They don't have a target commander at tight end. Randall Cobb is knew what we've got like ten padded practices. Randall Cobb is new, Brandon Cooks is new. Kenny still has missed the start of camp, and you know he was up and he's

gonna be the fourth receiver. I think will Fuller is the only returning player who has a legitimate established report with the Shawn Watson and therefore this year he's the guy that I think we should all be betting on. Plus those other guys have injury risk too, which can open up the targets. I'm totally with that whole theory. It's a great thing for fantasy people to think about, because I do think in the middle eight rounds it's almost like injuries are a little overrated. Injuries don't kill

you in fantasy. If you got eleven good games out of Will Fuller, that wouldn't kill you, either like you can survive or placing him during some weeks. Obviously you want it to be nice timed up for the fantasy playoffs or whatever. But people in the NFL, injuries kill you. In fantasy, you can you can live without three games of will Fuller if he winds up being as good

as Evan Silva's as he is. It's not as if will Fuller, like if he's gonna miss a few games, you're gonna take zeros in those weeks, You're gonna be starting another player. You know. That's why we have, you know, benches in fantasy football. I think that a lot of people think that fantasy football is a race to try to compile as many sixteen game players as possible or

avoid risk as much as possible. It's really a game where you want to have guys who have spike week potentials to make up for guys that have duds in certain weeks so that you know you can be winning as many weeks as possible. We're trying to win weeks in fantasy football. I got a little two part question for you. Um. First of all, I mean I look at the Dallas wide receiver crew, and I know you mentioned Michael Gallup in your article two, how do you

kind of stack that and value that group? Uh? And And secondly, let's just say, and I'm I'm back in the scene here. I'm playing Fantasy this year for the first time of you know, almost a decade or so. Um, well, you're playing to wait. I literally asked you twenty minutes before that you were playing Fantasy. And you're like, I'm not sure. She has changed my mind. And you know, I'm learning a lot on the fly. Heres. But let's say there was a two team league where it was

Evan Silva verse me, how does that go? And so we got the Dallas question. I want to know what happens one on one huge showdown Silva Sessler Fantasy World. Let's let's focus on the first part of the question. Go ahead. I have never played in the two team league, and I can't even I mean, this is such a classic Sessler question because I feel like there is some intelligence behind it, but I just don't understand one thing at all. Let's cut that. That's that's a nice job.

This is an ongoing theme of any time Silva and Cessler have an interaction. Even almost has no idea at any time, but Marcus talking about it's real. But I mean, if you want to talk about Michael Gallup, um let's talk about Michael Ballott. Okay, at Michael Pallop. I don't think people understand he was number six in the NFL and receiving yards per game last year. He missed two games.

If you just plug in his two playoff games from the year prior and we just look at his last sixteen games period, he has seventy four catches for twelve forty four yards and seven touchdowns. That would have made him twenty nineteens number overall, number seven overall wide receiver in PPR leagues. Um, he is being drafted as the wide receiver thirty one in high stakes ADP. High Stakes ADP is supposed to be sharp. We have him as the wide receiver. I just like betting on the Dallas

offense in general this year. I love the continuity that they had the returning four or five offensive line starters. I like the approach that Mike McCarthy has taken and just sort of leaving the offense to Kellen Moore. They played faster under Kellen Moore. They threw the ball more aggressively under Kellen Moore. They have a really soft schedule.

This year reminds me of that year. Was it two thousand and seventeen when they went with thirteen and three or twelve and four or whatever, and they you know, they exploded on offense. That was with Doc as a rookie. Now Doc is in what his his fourth year, And I mean I think that this offense is they're gonna score a ton of touchdowns this year. So, I mean, Mary Cooper is undervalued in Michael Gallup is undervalued. Um and I think they're gonna be really they're pulling out

Randall Cobb and Jason Witten upping Blake Jarwin's usage. They're inserting uh ceedee lamb for Randall Cobb. I just they're gonna score a lot of tis. Like well, by the way, Sylvan, maybe you don't realize it, but you just did answer the first part of Selzler's question. He was just trying to figure out how do you shake out and make sense of the targets. That's in doubt. I thought we worked in We worked in concert there together very well. Yeah,

that was Silver would write the floor with you. I mean, that's is that what you're looking for? I don't know, asking what you think would happen. I was asking what, Evan, I know you would pick Evan and most most thinking people would um. But you know, I mean, do you want like an independent to take on this? I feel like it would be a coin flip, a two team league. Both teams would be so absurdly stacked that it really doesn't matter the level of the players. I don't know,

Maybe I'm crazy. I I root for a team that's terrible and depressing down like injury luck. You know, yes, as it always does so on your sleepers list. As bad as the Jets look on paper right now and as bad as they looked in their scrimmage today, um over in Floren Park, you have three players to you

that that stand out. Chris Herndon the tight end. A lot of people are talking about Herndon as a guy that bounces back strong after a lost twenty nineteen, but also Jamison Crowder is someone that jumps out to you as well as well as Richard Perriman, who came over from Tampa. Your thoughts on the Jets who are a depressed value? I assume in this world it's admittedly concerning to have three of the undervalued slash sleepers. Uh, you

know they're They're only fifteen of them. So that's taken up with like of the list here on Jets, and that is scary, especially considering the history of skill position players being suffocated under Adam gaze and then all of a sudden exploding when they go to new opportunity. Careless by you. It's careless by yourself the ultimate. Um. But I think that these players are being undervalued because they are part of the Jets. I think the Jets are

going to be playing from behind frequently this year. They just lost their best two defenders. They trade to Jamal Adams, they lost C. J. Moseley to an opt out. I think they're gonna struggle on defense a lot more than they did last year. The player, the personnel just isn't gonna be as good. Um. Chris Herndon had an all time rookie year, especially for what a fifth round tight end. He had over five hundred yards, which I mean over the previous decade the uh, he had the tenth most

yards of any rookie tight end. I mean, he he can play. His problem last year was he had the suspension and then he was injured. He's my favorite late round tight end this year, Um, I think he's gonna get a chance of like a hundred two hundred ten targets. Again, going back to the established report between quarterbacks and pass catchers, Jamison Crowder has you know, ah, you know locked in, I mean Hunter and twenty two targets last year dominated

the targets from Sam Donald. Look at what they did on the outside. They changed out there. Both of their perimeter receivers, Denzel Mims can't get on the field. Brashant Perryman is now hurt. Brashide Perryman is also on the list. The list was made before he got hurt. But like I think Brascod Perriman is good. I think he's always been good. If you go back and look at the history of brashete Perryman, he has had horrible luck. Like

his dad got sick. You know, Brett Perryman and excellent receiver in the NFL for a long time with the Allions. His dad got sick and that really he fell into a depression. Um he struggled with like shin splints early in his career with the Ravens and a PCL injury that he just is a is a brutal injury for a wide receiver. Harline was a lot to overcome. He was he was he was struggling with that, and then he got a shot in Cleveland and he got some

opportunities and you really really flashed over. And one of the big things he got knocked for early in his career was dropped passes. Over the past two seasons with the Browns and the Bucks, he's got ninety four targets

one drawing. And then if you look at what he did over the final five games of last year with Tampa Bay when he got an abundance of opportunity because Chris Godwin and Mike Evans were both at banged up at the end of the season, he had eighty seven plus yards and or touchdown and each of the five games to finish last year. I think Brashod Perriman can play um. But this this knee swelling again he had the PCL injury a couple of years ago, is a little bit scary. So I would be a little bit

less bullish on him after knowing of that. Do you do you have an earnest Wilford this year? You know, just the guy that Silva's banging the drum force so much that like the other people had established the run are almost talking about or maybe I don't know if that this is Levitan's world. Does Leverton ever step in and like, are you sure you wanna drought? You know, putting Wilford in the top twenty, because you're representing not just yourself but our our money, Like our money is

tied together. You are business partners. This is the establish you know, right right and because you know we we used to get into it. Sometimes Wilford stand out to me, you know, Wilford above Marvin Harrison, like in the middle of Harrison. There were a lot of times I had to sign off intanmester because I was gonna say something bad, you know. And so is there a player this year that you guys, um, that you guys are clashing on?

It is probably Rob Gronkowski. First of all, Adam Levitan is a major agist, and he lowered the ball, lowered the bar on who is old so far he's starting to creep into like the late twenties. That means you're old now. In his defense, one in May like really just turned thirty one, Um, but I mean he looked Everyone would admit that. In two thousand and eighteen, Rob Gronkowski looked like a big Transformer robot who you know, couldn't move at all pre workout Silva, pre pre boxing,

right right. So I mean, at the end of the day, Rob Gronkowski, I think it's gonna come down just a lot, uh two touchdowns. I think he can score a lot of touchdowns. That's not always the best way to project and approach fantasy, but he's sort of in this tier with guys like Jared Cook and Austin Hooper, and I think he's gonna score more touchdowns than those guys. So um, that's kind of why he's being considered there. All right,

let's let's swing negative. Now, let's get into some bus who who Who are some of the guys that are really on Silva's list of guys? Keep them away from my team because I got a bad vibe. Well, a lot of people aren't gonna like to hear this, And I know that Rosenthal isn't gonna like to hear this

because I know that he loves Josh Jacobs. But Josh Jacob's situation is worriedome, and like I I think that Josh Jacobs, like maybe already is a top five straight ball carrier rusher in the NFL, like in terms of a rushing talent. But in his first year he averaged two point one targets per game. That's not enough yet twenty catches in thirteen games. He only ran seven more pass routes than Jalen Richard, who the Raiders went and then resigned. And that was like one of the first

moves of the off season. Hey, we got a lot of money. Two year, seven million. That's a decent amount of money for a running back in this day and age. They drafted Lynn Bowden, who played primarily wide receiver. He played some wildcat quarterback at Kentucky's, sort of like a Randall Cobb player, but there they announced him as a running back on draft day. And then Mayock after the draft was like, we're playing this dude at running back, um,

and he's a pass catcher. And then they went and signed DeVante Booker and Theoretic and those guys might not even make the team. But it's like indications that they're not going to give Josh Jacobs more receiving work. And I'm really worried about the Raiders playing from behind a lot this year. I think they're not a good team. I know they weren't happen in nine. They won a bunch of close games. Last year, they really fell off at the end. They were bottom five in point differential.

They have a bottom five strength of schedule ac quarring according to Warren Sharp's uh you know, Vegas win totals based s os and I mean you I'm just gonna read off their schedule after a week one. So in Week one they faced the Panthers, and I mean, we're gonna be playing Josh Jacobs in DFS because we're not going to get the play him for very long after that. Week two facing the Saints, maybe the most talented team in the NFL. Week three at New England, good luck.

Week four against the Bills. I think the Bills like might win eleven twelve games this year. Week five against the Chief's, good luck. Week six against the buck In the years, they have a nine and a half game win total. They have a lot of talent. They're gonna be well coached. Good luck at the Browns. I think the Browns are gonna be improved. At the Chargers. Charges are gonna have a really good defense, really talented on defense.

Um then against the Broncos, Broncos are gonna have a good defense, and then against the Chiefs again, they're gonna from behind a lot, and it might be jaylem Ard and or DeVante Booker and or theoretic out there quite a bit. Um And how you hated the Raiders. I think that's even survived this new regime change. You just killing the Raiders on Twitter? How much I've been right about the Raiders? Do you mean how much I've been right about the Raiders? That's fair? But Raiders has paid

off for a long time. Their offensive good, Their offense overachieved. The offense was I'm sure better than you projected last year by a good deal, right, I mean, there was a pretty good offense. Their offensive line was better than I expected. It came together well. I mean that was the first offense, good offensive line that Tom Cable has

coached in like three decades. Nailing nailing Raiders failures kept the lights on that Silver mannor for years, Kevan, I got one for you, like, So, I know quarterbacks are totally devalued in this process at this point, but is there a quarterback out there that everyone is sort of hot on? And you're just thinking, has anyone ever watched football. No on this guy. Well, um, I would say that it's probably Aaron Rodgers, and I wouldn't say that it's

that people are super hot on him. But he still goes well above where he should in drafts because of big name value. Um, the Packers just have not set him up to succeed. They're not. I mean, let's just look at their draft. They drafted his replacement, the traded up for his replacement in the first round. In the second round, they drafted a big bulldozing running back. In the third round, they drafted you know, Kyle the guy

that they are hoping becomes Kyle us check. Their number two receivers Alan Lazard, who I do think he could overachieve in fantasy, and Davante Adams is obviously a stud. But I mean they're they're throwing darts at Robert Tonyan and Jay Sternberger at tight end, and you know they want to be a run first team and he's just not built up. He's not built for fantasy success. The Packers may be good again, but he is not built to be a productive fantasy quarterback this year. I know

Silva doesn't really like respect my fantasy acumen. Anymore. Yeah, that hurts. Here we go, he started, Actually he's We've gone back and forth on Twitter a little. I'm I'm past my prime, stand stand my lane. As if football and fantasy football are so different, who could somehow figure out the difference. Um. But but I'm trying to get bit. I'm I'm feeling I'm feeling weak here and I'm trying to get back on his good side. So I hit him up the other day because we we do agree

on a player. Um that people seem to love that that that I don't, and they're gonna love him even more Tariko. And after this David Montgomery injury on Wednesday, So I'm guessing even with Montgomery's sort of sidelines here, Silva is not jumping on the tariko and bandwagon. Man, I don't know this. When this happened, I was like, this is gonna let the the Tariko and truthers off the hook. You know, it's gonna bail him out. I have to move them up. I'm gonna have to move

them up. Actually, probably still less than than within other people who have him. I mean, if you look at right now his backfield competition, it's Ryan Noll who being a big time preseason DFS player. R I P and Peace preseason DFS um like you sort of have to love it day and I know because there's money to be made in the preseason. That's kind of sneaky. Best Ryan Reason a preciation game. But you have to talk yourself. And because if you watch him play, he's like, uh,

he's like the biggest plotter you've ever seen. You know. That's the other that's the next time. It's confusing him and Craignaw. Do you remember Craignaw is already relating? Of course, man, of course. I mean, don't you think the Tarik Cohen thing would happen by now? If it was gonna happen a few years? I'm with you, Yes, one more before we say goodbye, Evan all of a sudden it starts, you know, getting ten carries and seven targets a game

Like it doesn't matter if he's not very good. You know, he's he's gonna be one more bust before we say goodbye. One more bust. Okay, DeAndre Hopkins, I like it. He goes for big fishes. Interesting since thiss Adp right now is a top five wide receiver, we haven't been wide receiver fifteen and I think that, first of all, you have a like if you look back at the history of wide receivers that change teams during the offsee usually takes usually takes like a year for them to really

grow into the offense. The perfect example last year was Odell Beckham. Um DeAndre Hopkins has and a big reason for that is because the quarterback and the receiver have to get on the same page. Right. Has there ever been a worse off season for a quarterback and a receiver to get on the same page than this one. No. Over the past five seasons, DeAndre Hopkins average a hundred and sixty six targets per game, a hundred and sixty six.

His primary competition for targets during those years was Will Fuller, who we like but we also know was very often injured in a complimentary role player. Now he's going to Arizona, where he's got to deal with Larry Fitzgerald, Christian kirk Kenyan Drake was on pace for six catches in his

eight games with the Cardinals last year. And if you go back and look at the philosophy of Cliff Kingsbury, of Mike Leach, of this air rate attack, and I, you know, I try to post there's this video of Mike Leach talking about this, and I try to post it every year talking about what what What to Mike Leach is balance on offense. He says, um, A lot of coaches will say it's fifty run pass and he says, that's fift bullshit. It's equal distribution of the ball to

your playmakers. Of course, guys that are more talented are gonna get the ball a little bit more than you know, the fifth most the fifth most talented playmaker on the offense. But it's you know, just distribution. It's not, you know, trying to establish the run um. It is trying to distribute the ball to the playmakers to make your offense truly balanced. And I think that we're not going to see a hundred and sixty six target year out of

DeAndre Hopkins. I think it's gonna be more in the range of one thirty and he's already missing time with a hamstring injury at Cardinals camp. Swing your Sword, Baby, great book, Mike Leach. I agree with Silva too much. I don't like it. I don't like it. I'm totally on board with that one. Well he he is the big fish. We reeled them in for another year. And you know what, it's so good of you to come on and help us out in this territory. No, West, it would have been nice to hear you mix it

up with West a little bit. But uh, you know, Rosenthal, I was hoping you guys would start really taking verbal swings at each other. Didn't happen as much this year, but maybe next year. It's something to look forward to. Thanks so so much, uh guys for having me. And you know, Westling, if you're listening to this, man, I think about you every day. And thanks again guys for

having me on Silvus. It was like the really nasty stuff for texts, just like at one in the morning, be like you remember what you said back in two thousand and ten. All right, we've come to our final guest of the Around the NFL podcast extravaganza in the Fantasy Realm and it is one of the greats the industry has ever seen. Matthew Berry of ESPN, thank you for joining us on the show. My pleasure, guys, thanks

for having me. I don't think I I don't think I've ever done something with you, Barry, even though we crossed pass and we've kept in touch over the years. At Rhoda World for about two weeks, it was very It wasn't very long. You're you're embroiled in a in a feud with upper management ownership. But it's way back in two thousand and three when they're just weren't many like full time jobs or people trying to make them

into jobs in fantasy. Yeah, I was embroiled into a into a dispute with them because because they had uh. I had worked for them for free for a long time, and eventually I'd worked my way up to making fifty bucks a column and I was writing two columns a week, and I was making as a week, I was making a hundred dollars a week, or you know, or I

guess four hundred dollars a month. And they came to me and they said, after four and a half years, Uh, they said, you know, hey, uh, we're having some issues financially. This is before NBC bought them. We're having some issues financially. We'd like to uh cut your pay to a hundred dollars a month. And and then I said, wait what And they go, oh, well, listen, no, no, no, you're like our highest red writer, Like you're the everyone else

is getting zero. We're actually you know, they thought there was a big thing that they were they were still gonna pay me a hundred bucks a month, and I was like, you know, I was just like, wait a minute, So after four and a half years of writing for you guys, you want to cut my pay by three hundred percent? And they go and they go, well, when you say it that way, it sounds bad. I'm like,

because it is. They were definitely like there was definitely a point maybe like a Christmas later when they were playing when they were paying people with credit cards to try to get through the year, and you had kind of taken off that. I think there was kind of we we might have might have blown that one with Barry.

Maybe that was a bad This is the clip we're gonna use for social By the way, just like hot in about an hour, Your Loving Hate column is obviously one of the one of the most popular and most read fantasy columns out there, and I thought it was something interesting that you said that Silva said earlier actually that you see a big advantage in this year with

no preseason and just fourteen padded practice. You love the proven guys who are returning to a familiar set up with uh familiar system, coaching personnel in the strange year of Corona. That seems especially important when you're putting together a team, does it? It does to me. Look, there's gonna be so much that's unknown and untested and we've never seen before in this upcoming season. So let's try to at least narrow down and get rid of the

variables that we can. And so you know, look, it doesn't mean that you're gonna go crazy here, but for me, for example, like I DeAndre Hopkins at five. Deandrew Hopkins one of my favorite players in the NFL and obviously one of the best in the in the entire league. But when you have to nitpick at that elite level, give me Michael Thomas with Sean Payton Andrew Brees, right, give me Davante Adams with Matt Lafleur and Aaron Rodgers. Give me Julio with Matt Ryan, you know, and and

Dirk catter give me. Give me Tyreek Hill with Pat Mahomes and Andy Reid. Give me those guys ahead of Hopkins. Who's going to obviously a new quarterback in a new system, you know, and isn't gonna have the time to develop the chemistry with Kyler Murray that the four guys I just mentioned already have and have had for years. I thought it was interesting where you put Miles Sanders um in the not love but the hate category. I'd love

to hear about that. I'm also, um, still still kind of awestruck by the fact that you were in Avengers. But we'll deal with that another time. You can start with Miles Sanders here. I appreciate that, Um, although I'd be more than happy to talk about Avengers Endgame because you know, like you know, you're never sick of talking about that. All right. Uh well, because here's the thing, guys, I'll just say this really quickly because it's important for me to say and just get this messogd out as

much of they can. I've been in only one movie in my life, Avengers Endgame. I've only been in one movie. I'm one movie. I'm a one movie. I'm in a scene, right, I have four lines. I'm a cast member, I'm in the credits, I'm in IMDb with it. I'm I'm a legit cast member of Avengers, and you got residual check coming in individual check. It was very generous. Better than yeah, may, it's better than World, better than Rhodor World, even at

the high cotton days of Rhoda World. Um and uh, the point is is that Avengers that so I've been in one movie. I'm a one movie actor, and that movie, Avengers Endgame, is the highest grossing movie worldwide all time, more money than any movie ever in the history of cinema worldwide. And so on a per movie basis, I'm the highest grossing actor of all time. I mean, there are other actors out there that have more cumulative box office on a per movie basis. Like everyone's looking up

at me. I just it's weird that your phone isn't ringing more for a movie too, or maybe you're just selective. You're waiting, You're waiting for the next one that could. I mean, I thought it was impressive, Matthew that you wrote one of the Crocodile Dundee sequels. But this one, this back to it just blows that one out of

the water. My. I just imagine someone who has no knowledge of anything and they come on and they read my IMDb page, which is I think I have like a couple different profiles there, but it's such a mass, like, wait a minute, this guy wrote Croc three, he was in Avengers End Game and he's a fake football guy for ESPN, and you know he was also on One Life to Live because I did a two day thing on One Life to Live as a uh, you know, as a synergy kind of thing, and like, right, I

have just the weirdest, have the weirdest most of credits. I have a really weird resume, and I have a really I'm you know, probably the most insane IMDb page that makes no sense whatever whatsoever. Because I was also a Hollywood writer, so I like, I have these writing credits of like shows that some people have never heard of. And anyway, so yeah, I had a very weird path

and a truly blessed career. Alright, So Miles Standers, let's get to actual football here, Miles Sanders, So I want to clarify something here for your listeners that may not be aware of what love hate is. I don't hate the player, I hate the ADP. So love hate is entirely about ESPN ADP. And I'll get in a plug to play ESPN dot com Fantasy Pole down app for free. Got to do that. But so you're not gonna get as many plugs as had him ranked it earlier. So

it'll be fine. I'm I'm sure I won't. I'm sure I won't, Marcus on two, right, So like you're double the NFL guys, right, So, and I'm sure I'm sure Evan was plugging his side as well, you know, left and right, So believe me. But you know, I listen if anyone let him a run for his money in terms of plugs. But the Great Fantasy Game over at ESPN dot com. All right, So Miles Sanders, don't hate the player, great player, right or what I What I

have a problem with this is ADP. I've seen he's currently going as running Back nine dot com, and I've seen him go as high as running Back seven, And you think, and it's all based on two things. Number one, it's based on last year. There was a five game stretch at which point he was the guy. Weeks weeks like whatever eleven is, sixteen, I'm sorry leaks. Weeks twelve to sixteen, he was awesome, touches a game hundred seventy yards from scrimmage, over twenty one Fantasy points per game,

and PPR top five Fantasy running back. I get it. He was awesome. He was also all they had. Like the Eagles back then were so banged up that their starting wide receiver was former a A F San Antonio Commanders superstar Greg Ward. That's who they were rolling out there.

I don't even know if he was a superstar for them right right, anyway, the fact is is like they just they didn't have anyone, right, I mean, so everyone like talked about how Miles Sanders was like this amazing guy coming out of college, you know, better than Barkley at Penn State and blah blah blah blah blah. But the fact is is that he couldn't beat out Jordan Howard. Before Jordan Howard got um, before Jordan Howard was injured,

Miles Sanders was getting eleven touches a game. Okay. And by the way, Boston Scott from weeks fourteen on was the seventh best running back in Fantasy last year. Again also a showing that they didn't have anyone, but also also because so so you're basing it on on a situation that. I don't think it's likely to repeat this year. I believe the Eagles will have many more skilled players healthy than they did when Myles Stands got all sorts

of rue and you're basically where he's being drafted. You're drafting him an RB seven, you're drafting at the end of the first round, top of the second, and you're doing that off of five games. Like it's a small sample size, right, And so I mean, like my argument is, is, like, well, listen, if we're going off of small sample sizes, why is it Austin Eckler going higher. Austin Ekeler for the four games that Melvin Gordon wasn't there like he will be this year. In in in Los Angeles was the second

best running back in Fantasy. He was only five points worse than Christian McCaffrey over the first four games. But we're all ignoring Austin Ekeler made a little there buzz I like that because of Tyrod Taylor. What like, you're telling me that Anthony Lynn, former NFL running back Anthony Lynn, it is suddenly gonna go pass happy with Tyrod Taylor. You suddenly think Justin Jackson and Joshua Kelly are more of a threat to Eckler's playing time than Melvin Gordon

was last year. By the way, once Melvin Gordon came back, from the time Melvin Gordon came back in Week five till the end of the year, Austin Ekeler was the fifth best running back in Fantasy. We're produced even when Melvin Gordon there. Okay, fine, so now you talk about like, well, people are like Doug Peterson has never had a guy like Miles Sanders. Okay, maybe, okay maybe, but last year everyone, that's what everyone was saying about Bruce Arians and O J. Howard.

O J. Howard's Bruce has doesn't used to tight end. Well, yes, but he's never had a tight end like O J. Howard. How did that work out? Like, here's the thing. I'm just going off of what we've seen so far. I hear you. Sanders maybe the most talented running back that Doug Peterson has ever had. But Doug Peterson has been the head coach of the Philadelphia Eagles for sixty four regular season games. Nine times, literally nine times in those sixty four games has a single running back gotten more

than twenty touches in a game. They've been winning those games too, that that's not a good Peterson is a former NFL quarterback, right who came up under Andy Reid. Like, what does Doug Peterson want to do? He wants to throw. He's gonna throw, like and I get it, Miles Sandon's gonna involved the passing game. And I people aren't worried about Boston Scott or Corey Clement and they, you know,

they haven't. They haven't signed anyone, even though they kicked the tires on on Devonte Freeman and Lashawn McCoy and Carlos Hide, and you know they were rumored to be in on. Some of these veterans that went elsewhere in the case of Freeman are still on the street. But

I guess I don't know. For me, it's just really risky too draft a guy uh that high that we've seen literally five games of elite production from in a situation that I don't think is likely to repeat this year, which is that every other skill player they have is injured except for like Zach Eartz, who is also still banged up during that time frame. Let's let's that's my r. Miles Sanders is an RB two this year. Not an

RB one where he's being apted argument. I still have at the top twenty guy, I still from the top fifteen guy. I still think he's good. He's a running for running back four team for me. But the idea that he's a top seven running back is is crazy to me. Let's let's stay in the running back category because I love your David Johnson theory. I love it. I mean I didn't think of it that way, and

now I can't stop thinking about it. Because what Matthews saying is that the nature of David Johnson's circumstances of how he got to Houston will inform how he's used with the Texans. That avalanche of criticism around the DeAndre Hopkins trade can lead to a significant production bump in You're with the year one with the Texans because in part, Bill O'Brien, the head coach GM, doesn't want to look bad. I mean, Matthew, that to me is something that holds water.

And you have a past example I'd like you to share of how that worked with another team in the not so recent past at running back. This is something that I think gets overlooked a lot in fantasy football analysis.

Is that football players are humans. Head coach and general managers, everyone around a football team is a human being with emotions, with egos, with you know, with the faults like all of us right, And the other piece of it is is that an NFL team is like many other organizations, there are internal politics, okay, and so that is why sometimes you're like, why doesn't that guy get the run when that veteran like it's you know, sometimes it's just

like players run rub coaches the wrong way. One of the reasons why Frank Gore has lasted as long as he has. People love Frank Gore. By all accounts, Frank Gore is like the best teammate of all time. Like they just love him so anyway, might to answer your question, you think about the New York Giants and Sa Kwan Barkley.

They got so much criticism. Dave Gentleman got so much criticism for passing on Sam Donald or Pasco, any sort of quarterback and taking se Kwan at two overall they needed Sa Kwan to Wark and I remember I had to stake one is a top five player overall that year, and people were talking like, you're crazy, he's a rookie running back that offens me awful. That offensive line is one of the worst in the NFL, like they're gonna

be so down blah blah blah blah. Obviously had a monster rookie season fantasy wise, and it's because they were like, if nothing else goes right, s Kan is gonna work. We're gonna make you want to start. It obviously helps that he's insanely talented. He's, you know, one of the best running backs in the NFL. But even on a bad team, bad quarterback and it's a struggling offensive line, they figured out ways to make sa Kwon Barkley a star.

And so to that point, yes, David Johnson, Like when when you think about what the Texans did, the Texans had a thousand yard rushian Carlos Hide last year. They got production out of Duke Johnson, and they had one of the best wide receivers in the in the game and DeAndre Hopkins. And they not only traded DeAndre Hopkins to Arizona, but they and took for David Johnson, but

they took on his contract. It's like you can't even argue that well as a salary dump, Like we know Hopkins wants a new deal and we don't want to play him, and so like they took on David Johnson's contract. So I yes, Bill O'Brien hurt. Here's all the criticism. You trade a guy like DeAndre Hopkins, who is beloved in the community, who obviously is a fan favorite. David

Johnson needs to work. He's not gonna win any efficiency awards, but I think he is going to get as much volume as any running back in the NFL this year because they need to work like they And by the way, just for whatever it's worth, this is very loosey goosey math,

but uh it's illustrative. Duke Johnson and Carlos Hide last year, two running backs that I don't think are as good as David Johnson combined last year, If you combine their production, they would have been that player would have been the fifth best player in fist fifth best running back in Fantasy. Now, I'm not saying David Johnson's gonna be the fifth best running back in fantasy, but I think he gets them. I think he gets all the Carlos Hide roll, and I think he gets a good chunk of the Duke

Johnson role. And you gotta be a good player though, gotta be a good player. I'm not sure he's good at football, and at some point that's gonna show up. I love a little Duke Johnson. At the at the end of my draft, I do want to bring up one last guy because I know you're a Washington football team, and that's tough. There are many out there. There aren't that many that are kind of like many reasons especially yes sir, yes, yes, And I know you probably haven't

had many that you've got to put on your love. Hey, I can't imagine over the years from Washington maybe a little early Clinton portist who knows, but Terry McLaurin. I think it's kind of getting slept on a little bit as um, just a pure talent and what you know and what you think he could be like there in terms of when you just talked about feeding David Johnson the ball, how much are they gonna feed Terry McLaurin the ball? Yeah, I mean I think it's time, right.

I always say this fantasy success is pretty easy to determine. I think it's a um, it's talent and opportunity. Right. So to your point about David Johnson, I think massive opportunity. We can argue about the talent um, but uh, he's gonna have a massive opportunity Terry mclauren. I think we

all agree, both talent and opportunity. I talked to a lot of the Washington coaching staff at the combine, and you know, they're bringing over the Carolina offense in essence, right Scott Turner, who was quarterbacks and then offense coordinator for for Carolina. Norv Turner's son, he's the new offensive coordinator of Washington, and the conversation was all about that they want Terry mclauren to be the d J Moore in that offense. Remember Carolina Panthers were sent past attempts

last year. Now, some of that was their defense which was brutal, and they got in these shootouts and they got down big. But make no mistake, like Scott Turner, son of NORV, is gonna throw like they're gonna throw, And so who they throwing too? Were they're throwing to? Terry mcscoring from trying to float up the name, I don't I don't love this F one. I don't I

don't love F one. I'm just saying d J Moore had a hundred thirty five targets last year right in Carolina and had more competition for targets than I think mclauren does this year in Washington and so and I think the redskin I think I think Washington's team, Washington defense will be better than Carolinas was last year. Actually, don't think they'll be terrible. I think they'll be kind of middle of the pack. I think they have a pretty good line. But still, here's the guy. Get this.

Last year, Tera mclauren twelve are better among wide receivers and catch percentage above expectation yards for target end zone targets. And by the way, that was in an offense last year, declan hide offense. Right, it was pass happy under Jay Gruden, and they fire him and then Bill Callahan takes over. Then we're gonna going back to run first, so we're gonna establish the run. There you go, there's a plug for Evan Silva. We're gonna I mean literally like that

was like that's what they were gonna do. And the different quarterbacks are in and out, and you know they Haskins is thrown behind a brutal offensive line and it's just it's a mess. And so I'm a Dwayne Haskins believer. I don't believe you throw fifty touchdowns at Ohio State and then suddenly forget how to play football. I think it was an awful situation, uh, and an awful franchise

in transition last year that he was thrown into. And I think at least they're trying to take, you know, at least as you know, at least on the football field under Ron Rivera, it's gonna be a much more buttoned up organization. And uh, I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet on Dwayne Haskins. And certainly I expect him to look early and often for his former college roommate, a teammate I should say, not roommates, but teammate.

Before we say goodbye, Matthew, and thank you again for joining us, just wanted to ask your take on Erica. Can you play the sound clip garden Minshew beer commercial where your name is cited? Did they have to get clearance to use that? They did not, And I was like, it's so funny because his agent texted me like an hour before that commercial came out, getting just heads up, gardener, gardener name drops you, and I'm like, oh, nice, Um, what's he do. He's like, well, he's not happy with

his ranking. And I'm like, and by way, by the way, like Garner on ESPN Garnerment Show seven, I'm s QB twenty. You mentioned my he's literally in my love list, like I have him. I have him as my QB sleeper and our Sleepers and Bus column. He's in my life. Well, you shouldn't be on his hate list based on this, but I'm actually giving love to Gardner Minshew. I think Gardner Minshew has a really nice fantasy season here, guys. Um, he wants to be a first round pick. I mean,

it's not like you love him that much. I'm not. Yes, I'm not, I'm not. I don't think he's a first round pick, and I don't think he's I don't think it's worth a case of beer for me to make a round pick. It's a good time for you, though, You're getting some good pip, I reached. I retweeted the I retweeted that video and said, QB one, I thought it was really funny. Um, And in fairness, it's a

pretty good question. Who the hell is Matthew Berry. It's a. It's a'stential question all the time, and I would just say my my final thought, and it's unsolicited advice for you, is, you know, litigation with Anaheizer Bush about character defamation maybe ends up being a nice path for you to set up your retirement Rhodor World money. Yeah, exactly. If there's any lawyers out there listening, Uh yeah, yeah, if you

think we got a case. Um, but uh, legit. Since this is a fantasy football podcast and I took up a minute and a half with Avengers Talk, I will say that I actually think Gardner Minshew is a really nice fantasy sleeper. Like again, same thing. Uh, there's two things. Here's here's the thing. You know, we're talking about sort of politics of a team, and like with the David Johnson sake one thing. Here's another thing I don't think people understand. So Gardner Minshew last year, you know, he

was a late run draft pick. He's just trying to find the field. Nick Foles gets signed to that big deal all of a sudden, Minshew's in there like he's he's still trying to figure out where he puts his helmet like when he comes in practice. So but but there's difference, right, there's a difference. You know. Same thing with Daniel Jones is a big sleeper for me. Like last year he had to come in and it's like Eli,

it's his living legend, blah blah blah. I just gotta stand in the back of the locker room and try not to make noise. There's a different mindset that now you've come into this year. The Jags have gotten rid of Mick Foles. It is Gardner min Chow's team, and uh, they a brand new offense cornator, Jay Gruden. What does Jay like to do? He likes to throw. New quarterback coach Ben McAdoo. What has Ben like to do? Ben

likes to throw? And now you bringing Gardner Minshe for a team that we know is you're building that's gonna have a bad that's going to have a They're gonna have a bad defense. And uh, think about what Jay Grumen has done in his career. If you think about his time as the offense creator to the Bengals, or is the head coach of Washington been eight full seasons. Forget twenty nineteen when he got fired five games in.

There's been eight full seasons. Three of those seasons. I'm gonna throw out first year, which is Andy Dalton's rookie year. Throw that out. His first year in Washington, which was the r G three got hurt Ear and Kirk Cousins, and there's back and forth, and he had to start Colp McCoy for a couple of games. He had three different quarterbacks that year. And then eighteen, which was when he had that was the he had four quarterbacks that year.

That was the Alex Smith got injured year. That was the UH he had played Colt McCoy, my current colleague Mark Sanchez, and a f superstar, Josh Johnson. He had four quarterbacks that year. So I think it's fair to throw those three years out. Every other year that Jay Gruden has been an offense creator or a head coach in the NFL, he's had a top thirteen Fantasy quarterback. Those years that I just talked about, the five years that I just talked about, Andy Dalton, Kirk cut were

all top thirteen all those years. And now he's got Gardner Minshew on a bad team. They've got some nice talent. I think DJ Shark is the real deal. You're hearing great buzz about Lavisa like I'm not. They got Chris Thompson out of the backfield, you know, D D. Westbrook. I think that that is that. I think Gardner Minshew is going to be a real value this year for players that are in two quarterback league, super flex leagues, deeper leagues. I'm in on gardner Man, even though he

doesn't know who the hell I am. All right, Matthew Berry, thank you so much for joining me around the NFL podcast Fantasy Extravaganza. You know where to find map but ESPN all over the website, on the network all season long. Thank you very much. Focus podcast. Wherever you're listening to this podcast, check out the Fantasy Focus podcast. And I would love to plug roto pass dot com, which you can see a subscription to many great sites, all the

best premium fantasy football sites, including ESPN Plus. You get a full your subscription ESPN Plus if you use the promo code a t H right or a t N right. You guys are a t N sorright ny unit, Yes, a t N the promo code a t N at roto pass dot com. We'll get you ten percent off, so we'll see how many. We'll see how many stubs. You guys can drive, you know, and like, let's see and and if you do, like, I'll pass it on to you guys as well. You know, I'll let you

guys with the beak, you know. So that's very nice. Thank you us, Thank you very much. Matthew Berry. There he goes, and that ladies and gentlemen puts a cap on the Yes Annual Fantasy Extravaganza. And we are so happy to um, so happy to do this every year because I feel like we've helped people today. Boys, I think so. I think sometimes it's like you wonder what you know, just like Matthew Berry is wondering who is Matthew Berry? What is our purpose here as a podcast?

And I think you answered it, Dan, It's to help people. I mean, we we make a difference. I'm sure you've taken in their fantasy leagues, Ricky. I'm sure you've taken many notes as your fantasy draft approaches. Yeah. I mean I was only on the NFL's Fantasy League one show all last year, but no one seemed to care about my opinion about any of this. But it's cool. I'm not offended or upset, so it's fine. Do you have before we sign off, do you have a player that

come up? Now? I'm done after this four hour show, so I'm good. You guys got your info. Oh no, you're not done. You're just starting, Honey. You've got a lot of work to do. I know this is this grew ugly alright, So there you go. Reminder, we have two more shows of Around the NFL content coming your way. Friday will be the Rundown podcast that will get up earlier than usual, so look for that in the afternoon.

And then also Friday will be taping our Around the NFL broadcast, which airs digitally on NFL dot Com you can fund it on YouTube, and then at airs on NFL Network Saturday morning, So set your DVR if you still have that, if you haven't cut the cord. I know it's happening a lot these I still got it. Keeping direct TV all these years is gonna pay off on Sundays this year now that we're stuck on Gugeorge. Alright, Mark, congratulations, First,

Do you feel truly part of this now? Yeah? I think I think this view goal slash trumpet is playing for me at the moment, so I do big moment for you and I always love when you and Silva have a disconnect in conversation. Yeah, how that's not exactly like a star Sky and Hutch scenario. I don't think.

So what did what did change between eight minutes before the show when you told me not sure if I'm gonna play any fantasy leagues too, to twenty minutes into this show you're telling Silva like, oh, yeah, I'm signed up for like Dynasty. You know, I know we're trying to get out of here. I'll say it real quick.

I mentioned you Greg that I thought it might be good to play with my kids, and so um I thought, you know, as the show was going on and you're sort of thinking your own things in your head, Yeah,

that would be a good idea. So that's all fun out with the follow up question nobody wants alright when Erica starts, we know this one's getting cut for social shut up, all right, Dan Hanson signing off or quiet Storm, the old Boss, Ricky Hollywood, and all of our wonderful guests Adam Rank, Marcus Grant, Liz Lowe's Uh, Evan Silva, and Matthew Berry. Until Friday, Let's skip through a field and try not to get the plague