¶ Intro / Opening
The truth is is when you are aiming at something that most people think is impossible , of course you're going to stumble upon the principles that get you there . Basically , the world becomes your library . Ten years ago , I decided to shoot for something that's never been done . Then I reoriented my entire mind , body , heart and soul to the world became my library .
To find out how to do it .
When you and I are getting ready to record , there's zero part of me that's nervous , worried . I'm not worried about anything , but when we do speeches , I am . I've only done however many in-person speeches , but here's the thing it took 150 podcast episodes before I got confident as a podcaster .
It might only take a third of that for live events because I already have some of the attributes built up . Welcome to Next Level University . I'm your host , kevin Palmieri .
And I'm your co-host , alan Lazarus , at .
NLU , we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers .
Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life , love , health and wealth .
We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence , self-belief , self-worth , self-awareness , relationships , boundaries , consistency , habits and defining your own unique version of success .
Self-improvement in your pocket , every day , from anywhere , completely free . Welcome to Next .
Level University Next Level Nation . Welcome back to another episode of Next Level University , where we help you level up your life , your love , your health and your wealth .
Today's weird and strange because I don't know the title of the episode yet because Alan and I were thinking that I did an interview of Alan recently and we talked about productivity and he said I will interview you on something today . And what does that really mean ? It's not really an interview .
I guess it's just like a more directed conversation based on what somebody wants to hear from the other person .
No , it's going to be an interview . Yeah , but it's different . I told you before we hit record . I said I'm going to come at you on this one .
Yeah , you did .
And you said do whatever you want . I said bring it , bring the heat .
You think I'm nervous . I'm not nervous . You think I'm losing sleep . I'm not losing sleep .
Not over you . Yeah , I'm ready . All right , it was actually really funny because before this we were trying to think about because Kev interviewed me about productivity , and I adore it . I think it was of value . I hope you all agree . If you haven't listened to that episode , you're not missing much .
No it is really a good one , and I was thinking to myself myself what do I want to interview kev about ? This show ? Next level you pun intended is about helping people achieve their goals and dreams . That's what it's about . You're on the growth journey with us . We're trying to live our dream life . We're trying to build our life and ourselves .
And self-improvement , holistic self-improvement in your pocket health , wealth , life , wealth , life and love and it's heart-driven , but no BS . Holistic self-improvement for dream chasers . That's our 10-word description of this podcast . So shout out to all of you out there viewing or listening to this Dream chasers . Here we go .
First question Kev when did you officially consider yourself a dream chaser ? When did you officially consider yourself a dream chaser
¶ Defining a Dream Chaser
?
When did I officially consider myself a dream chaser ? I still don't , probably in 2018 . When I left my job to do this Before I wasn't embarrassed about it . Before I didn't , I wasn't embarrassed about it . I just wasn't as pumped as I am today because I knew there there was there was potentially some negativity associated with being a dream chaser .
So I would say , no , that's a lie . That's a lie I . So I moved from New Hampshire to Worcester , massachusetts . I lived with Matt . That's when I felt like a dream chaser . He was rent . We were renovating the upstairs and the downstairs . He was doing his thing . I was helping him with his dreams . I was going to Allen's . We were podcasting .
So I would say , like when you and I really started focusing on the podcast , that's when I would say I identified as a dream chaser .
What was the scariest part of identifying as a dream chaser , Not just inside yourself ? Well , so first question is when did you identify inside ? And then when did you kind of go public with that identity ? I think .
I , when I started the podcast , I internally did Like this is something . This is different . I'm going to post it on social media . People are gonna think it's weird as hell . What about the people I asked to come on ?
so I think that was probably when I internally self-identified and then when you say people , who , who do you mean ?
people are gonna think it's weird everyone everyone that , everyone that I knew when I was younger , everyone that I went to high school with all of my kind not close circle of friends , but anybody on , like the second or third what's the word I'm looking for Ring of my friends , I didn't know . Or if I meet somebody new , what is that going to be like ?
Or if I meet somebody new , what is that going to be like ? When I start dating , when I'm trying to date , what's that going to be like ? There was just a million fears around that , and even when I had been doing it for a couple years , there was a lot of people that didn't understand .
It's so weird how achieving your dreams is seen socially as the coolest thing ever . You picture someone winning an Academy Award or an Olympic gold medal , or winning a Super Bowl or whatever it is , and it's you know . Believe in yourself , believe in yourself . I watched Russell Crowe's speech when he won the Academy Award for Gladiator in 2001 ? 2005?
, I don't know . It was in the early 2000s and he said , for someone who I think he was born in Australia , someone who never thought this could be possible , for someone like me , starting from where I started , you know , never stopped believing Very inspirational , very good . I think that's great .
However , there is only one Academy Award for Best Actor every year and there's hundreds of thousands of people who aspire to be an actor or actress . So my question for you I've said this a lot people are playing not to lose more than they're playing to win , myself included .
I , in hindsight , was playing not to lose people , not to lose relationships , and my fear of losing relationships held me back from focusing on my goals more and in hindsight , it's very clear that that was never going to work If I tried to hang on to all my relationships from back then . There's no freaking way you and I could be where we are today .
What were you playing not to lose to ?
¶ Overcoming fear and self-doubt
lose Probably perception . I think that's one of the reasons I was so afraid of . I mean , failure for me was twofold it was the actual failing of something and looking like looking like an idiot from an external perspective , but also feeling like shit . It was a mixture of those two things .
Okay , well , if I fail in front of people , they're going to look at me differently and they're going to know . I won't have the same influence . I won't have the same credibility . People won't like me as much , They'll just look at me differently . It's like if they look at me differently , will they look at everything I've ever done differently .
And why would that matter ?
I think it would just change their perception of me and it might affect the relationship . I think , ultimately , my fear was I'd I'd get left behind . That more than anything . I don't , yeah , I don't again . I know I'm weird when it comes to relationships . I don't I miss people . I'm weird when it comes to relationships .
I don't I miss people and I think about people all the time . I was thinking of somebody recently that used to be a really good friend of mine , that I've talked about before , but it just I don't know , it wasn't , it was never going to change and I just didn't want to delude myself into thinking it was .
So I think my fear was people would just look at me differently . Maybe they wouldn't respect me , maybe they wouldn't believe in me , maybe they wouldn't be proud of me . That's a big one for me . I like when people are proud of me . That feels good .
Of all the people I coach , I do now have a pretty deep belief that everyone's playing not to lose more than they're playing to win , and I think that your suicidal ideation in your mid-20s and my car accident my mid-20s helped us play to win more than playing not to lose I would say that's that's fair , because for me it's nothing really jumps off the page .
It was I was playing not to lose this dream . That's literally what I was thinking I when we first started this and I left my job and then I went broke . It was literally I have to find a way to make enough money to get to the end of the day .
And then it was I need to find a way to make enough money to get to the end of the week and get to the end of the next week , find a way to pay the bills this month . My biggest fear was that . What is it now ?
My biggest fear no , it was get through the day , then get through the week , then get through the month . What is it now ?
I would say from an effort perspective , it's essentially the same . From an effort perspective , it literally is like just get through today and then when you do that seven times in a row , you've gotten through the week . That . And then I just now it's I have a lot of very small goals that are kind of spaced out , so it's just get closer to that Move .
I wrote this in my , my dreamliner today . Today was a relatively uneventful day . Almost nothing happened , nothing to write home about , almost nothing measurable happened . My goal today was to move the rocks , that move the rocks , that move the rocks that get me to the thing . That was it . That was what I was trying to do today .
So that that's really , that's the big thing . So that that's really that's the big thing . And just try , yeah , just try to get a little better . It's not really again . We have money in the bank and we have a quote , unquote successful business . So it's , the scarcity is just way different than it used to be For me . So it's not like that anymore .
I mean , those were fucking brutal times . It was absolutely terrible , just fucking terrible . It's just terrible . And that's why I have so much empathy for somebody who , when they start something they get , like that wave of hopelessness . It's like this is not going to work , or how am I going to be able to make this work ? I understand , I remember that .
I remember what it was like playing credit card roulette , Literally , like which of these will work , Like which one of these . So Taryn and I , I think the first time we went up to Vermont Her family has a house in Vermont , A cabin . I think it was in 2019 . I think , no , it was 2020 .
And I remember I was sitting on the picnic table up there looking at my bank account and I think I had like $15 in my bank account and I was like how the fuck am I going to get through this week with Taryn Like I'm going to pay for stuff , I want to pay for stuff .
How am I going to get through this week with Taryn Like I'm going to , I'm going to pay for , I want to pay for stuff . How am I going to do that ? And I remember we had one client at the time and I was editing his videos . There was no wifi , so I was editing his videos , trying to do it on my , my hotspot , on my phone .
It was brutal , it was just brutal . And I remember we we went up this year . I was sitting on the picnic table and it was like wow , so much , I have a beautiful car and I'm married and we're going to cross 2,000 episodes . It was soonish . At this point , you know that we just had the best year we've ever had in business
¶ Reflecting on humble beginnings
.
It was just A little more than $15 in the bank account .
A little more than yeah , yeah , but it was just very humbling . It was a very good reminder , but it's . That's the thing that sucks is people say like Because I really want to say this quote , but I know it's bullshit the next five years are going to happen anyway , so you might as well do something constructive with it .
Fucking going to happen anyway , so you might as well do something constructive with it . Fucking easier said than done . Yeah , no , thanks , kev . Easy for you to say when you're kind of on the other side . I know , I know , I know , but if I didn't do the thing for the five years , I wouldn't be . So I don't know . That's the .
That's the thing that's really hard is like , if you're , you know , if you're walking through fire , keep going . I understand , I understand what it sounds like . I understand what it's supposed to feel like . I understand what it's supposed to mean . I don't know if it helps in the moment . Honestly , what does help ? Would you regret stopping ?
What would you regret more ? Would you regret stopping or would you regret continuing the pursuit of something that seems wildly unlikely ? That's up to you . That's up to you , I would rather .
I would rather continue the pursuit of something that seems wildly unlikely Now , knowing that I'm going to get way further than I would have if I just pick something super certain and the lessons that have come with it . So , yeah , that you . It's up to you to decide . What regret do you want to have more potentially , do you want to have the what if ?
I never really wanted that ? I never . I wanted to fight professionally . I trained . That was close enough for me . There's no what if I got as close as you can get without doing it Okay , cool . What if I was a firefighter ? I gave that a run . I had some experiences Like there's very little what if , when it comes to that , I don't , I didn't want .
What if ?
Well , here's the problem with this too You've gotten to a place in your life where you've achieved your dreams Not all of them , obviously , but a lot of them being a full-time podcaster , being married . Dream car not your dream car , but a luxury vehicle , healthy , wealthy in love .
And I think one of the things that's really hard to articulate is that , having been on the other side of tremendous adversity , of course I'm grateful for all the terrible relationships I was in because I ended up with the best person .
Now that you're not . Yeah , now that I'm with Emilia .
Well , Kevin asked me one time . He said would you go back and change anything if you could ? And I said do I still get to meet emilia smith ? And he said yes . I said Then I would change fucking everything , Almost everything . But but that's the paradox that you can't if , if People say well , you shouldn't have regrets because that led you here .
Listen , only the people who make it to a great place don't have regrets .
And I think they still do . They just don't admit it . They don't admit it , yeah , because the regret doesn't outweigh the happiness or the gratitude , or the pleasure or the joy , or whatever it is Everybody has regrets .
Yeah , If Kev still had 15 bucks in his bank account , wasn't married , didn't have any of his dreams , wasn't a full time pod and was at a job he hates , do you seriously think he wouldn't have any regrets ?
Right , well , this is the hard part . Let's say we did this , we gave it a real go , and you and I were in a much different situation . It was like , alan , you know we're about to record our 2000th episode . Nobody has listened to an episode in the last like 500 . You know I don't know like what do you think you know are we ?
Are we just delusional at this point ? What are we ? What are we doing here ? At least then you could have the conversation and say look , we gave it a go , we gave it a go . Would we regret stopping right now or would we regret continuing ? I think that's the question . What would you regret more ? A lot of things I did for too long and I regretted it .
Very few things that I actually quit did I regret , honestly . But if I wasn't where I am today , would I say that ?
Don't know Exactly . That's the problem . Yeah , that's the problem . There was someone who sat me down early on in Kevin and I's journey and she said are you full of shit ? Like are you . Are you delusional ? Like it's okay . And I remember thinking are you out of your mind ? We're really successful . Why don't you see where this is going ?
I understand now in hindsight and , by the way , that fired me up , so thank you to that person . I mean I , you want to talk about motivation . You know how to push my buttons . Fucking . Don't believe in me . So exciting . Okay , yeah , I'm just gonna . I'm just gonna . Okay , yeah , I'm gonna .
I'm gonna get the last laugh on this one you ever want to get me motivated .
That's what I need .
Tell Alan he can't do something . It works well .
It does . It works really well . What I now understand is that that person could not project into the future . They couldn't see what we're currently doing and our current run rate and project it into the future . They couldn't see what we're currently doing in our current run rate and project it into the future . There's this website that one of my clients uses .
He's a YouTuber . I've talked about him anonymously and he you can go to this website and it will show your current trajectory on YouTube and it'll show where you'll be in five , 10 , 15 , 20 years . If you know , with based on the algorithms and in finance , you can do it too , right , if you have .
So I had one client once who had , uh , three hundred thousand dollars invested in an account .
Her father had started a fund when she was born and just kept putting in it and she saved 20% of her paycheck and she never made more than like 20 bucks an hour , which again is pretty solid actually , all things considered and she just always put money away , put money away , put money away .
And when I was coaching her I was like you do know , you're gonna have 11.8 . I think the calculation was $11.8 million in 20 years , assuming things go as well as they have in the past . It could be a little more , could be a little less , could be a lot less , depending on could be a lot more too . Right and and again , it's just called future projection .
So you can look this up , the research shows and she's like , seriously , and I was like , yeah , why are you doing this ? Then you're taking money out of your current pocket to put it in your future pocket and you never calculated it she's like no , my dad just told me to do that , yeah her dad was a finance uh teacher . You know .
You know it's good , you know it's . It's like why do ? Why do people eat salads ? Do you know exactly all the nutrients and what's in them ? No , but it's good . It's good for you . It's better than a cheeseburger .
It's good . Well , we looked up how to spell sequoia before this . I would look up the nutrients in the salad , because I'm numbers , micros , all that , but I don't wing anything . So again , we'll get this off me for a second here .
¶ Building confidence & persistence
back to you I wing as someone who doesn't project in the future . Because here's the thing I'm certain , like kev was never certain that we'd make it to where we are today . No , and kev asked me one time are you proud of us ? And I was like dude , that's a . Please don't ask me that on air . You did and the answer is yes and no .
Yes , I'm proud of the effort and the work we do in the world .
No .
I'm not fucking proud of where we've gotten . I mean , we are behind , sir , okay , and in some ways I'm proud of certain things , but ultimately I'm I'm most proud of the work we do in the world . I'm most proud of the sincerity and the effort and the time we've invested into becoming the best men we can be , and I am proud of some of our accomplishments .
But from my perspective , mathematically , we are capable of way more , and that's my truth as someone who doesn't project as naturally into the future , based on growth curves and exponentials . How did you hold on to belief when things were so dark ?
I don't . That's always a hard question , because one I had you . That's always a piece , so that's something that's not yeah , you can get around .
How did you trust me ?
I'm an idiot in a world where most people didn't .
Yeah , I'm an idiot who . Well you were right to do it know , but I don't know .
I don't know . I think it's because you had worked on yourself more than you had worked on anything else . It was like that's different . Like nobody else that's giving me advice has worked on themselves that much they think they have all the answers . Just , for some reason , where did you get these answers though ?
You were somebody that had worked on yourself a lot , so it just made sense like dialed in on himself , like there's got to be something to that , and in the beginning it started from a place of self-improvement . In the beginning there was no talks about business . For the first year yeah , yeah , for sure .
So it wasn't about that for me .
In the very beginning it was like you know way more than I do about self-improvement and all of these things that I want to learn more about . Let me talk to you more . That's where it started , and then you just seemed like you knew how to lead . So I was like I'll just kind of follow the lead and see what happens .
Yeah , I was like I'll just kind of follow the lead and see what happens . I was wrong about a lot of stuff . Well , we both were , but I know that's really hard to replicate , because for every story like this , there's 99 of somebody that gets taken advantage of .
Or it doesn't work , or like I'm not worried about that there's zero part of me that's ever worried . One day you and I aren't going to work well together . I don't even think about that . I honestly think more . What do I do if you get mauled by a bear on one of these reckless hikes ?
what do I do to the business ?
bring your bear spray outside of that I'm not worried about . Are we going to wake up five years from today and say , I don't know if I want to do this business partner thing . I'm not worried about that . But I also understand how rare that is . All of our mentors told us this was dumb Not all of them , but several of them .
Said this is dumb guys .
Most of them . Yeah Well , with all the love and all due respect , you are not us , so maybe it wouldn't work for you .
They are not us . What ? What is different about us and , in that , what you just said there ?
I think you and I have very , very , very aligned core values . We would rather be good men than I'd rather be a good man with less money than a terrible person with all the money . That's one . Our ultimate goal is to add value to a martyr , like a martyrdom level . We just like helping people . We just do . I just like helping people . I really do .
I'm not faking that I'm not faking that part . I love that . That's like my favorite thing . Somebody messaged me , somebody joined Evan Carmichael's Mastermind and evidently I didn't know this . It's super cool .
There's like all the presenters that have ever been there , there's videos in like a library , and this person saw mine and they sent me an email and they were like hey , I'd love to have you on my podcast . It was amazing . Nice , yeah , of course . They said is that something you would make time for ? I got nothing but time for that .
I got nothing but time for that . Yeah , I would love to do that . So , I don't know . I just think that I think it's easy to take your experiences because we do it . We're a podcast about self-improvement . We try to do a great job of not blanket you never mentioned humility is that because it takes away dude .
The truth is is you were humble enough to . Actually , because I'm thinking too , you know it's not like you're the only person that I tried to convince .
I don't think I was that humble , I think I just was . I had so little belief , but I don't know if it was .
I have a lot of people that have a bunch of . I have very little belief . That didn't trust anything I said .
Well , I'm not saying they're wrong , they are wrong , I know mathematically , but We've made it Like we've again made .
It is in quotes here I know , I know . But we are more successful than 99% of people thought we'd be .
Yeah , but .
Coming from where we came from .
So you were more accurate than them . Slash and would they have I'm ?
I was accurate because I stuck around To maybe not , but they would have stuck around had they believed like you did .
I don't know man . No , we've had this conversation . We've had . If . I guaranteed you a million dollars five years from today in a bank account , but you had to do the same shit seven days a week . You couldn't miss . You miss once you lose it . Most people are not going to take that . Most people aren't going to take that
¶ Next Level Dreamliner: the planner, agenda, journal, and habit tracker to rule them all. Get a copy:
.
Hello , hello , hello . Nlu listener . Thank you , as always , for listening to Next Level University . Real quick . I just want to jump in and let you know about the Next Level Dreamliner . This is a journal that I use every single day . Achieve your dreams 90 days at a time . It breaks down your dreams into goals , milestones and daily habits .
We hope you enjoy it . The link will be in the show notes . What if , instead of a million dollars it's , you get to live your dream for the rest of your life ?
The problem is and I'm glad you touched on this , when people say so , I get to live my dream . It's hard as shit . The dream is hard , it's the best , it's fulfilling it's . It's amazing , it's aligned , but it's like a treadmill that never stops and it gets faster . And there's legos on the treadmill there's legos .
There's legos picture home alone when he steps in through the .
Yes , that's also in retrospect he could have just looked down and he would see like let's be real marv , those films , marv is the dumbest character he in any film ever .
yeah , very , very , very possible On purpose , obviously .
He's a very interesting character . He does wood sculptures and I think he makes maple syrup and stuff . Seems like a down-to-earth cool dude for sure .
Those films .
They're walking up the stairs pretending and then it's like , oh , there's two , and then there's the bar .
It's a great flick this past Christmas holiday season . I actually two , and then there's the bar . It's a great flick . This past Christmas the holiday season , I actually watched the first one and the second one . I was reminiscing on my childhood . They did a good job .
Well , don't go any further than the second , because the other ones are dog shit .
Of course , yeah , the sticky bandits or whatever .
The wet bandits and the sticky bandits . Yeah , Okay .
¶ Setting achievable goals
People out there goals and dreams . What's the thing about goal achievement that you didn't understand ? That you were ?
just wrong about , purely wrong , man . It's , it's really easy to measure , but it's really hard to feel like the measurements add up , that it's really easy to measure whatever it is Like . Let's say you want to lose . Let's just say you want to lose 10 pounds in 10 weeks . That's probably not enough time . Let's say you want to lose 50 pounds this year .
I don't know . I feel like for the vast majority of the time , if you don't have the numbers dialed in , you're literally just thinking am I on or off ? But isn't that a level of certainty that you want ? I know I'm making progress . I just don't know if I'm making progress at the right level , at the right amount . So it's , I just don't make it .
I just don't know if I'm making progress at the right level , at the right amount . So it's just yeah , I don't . It's hard , I think . Okay , the best , the best answer I could give is and Alan said this early on in our , in our journey , by the time you get to the goal , you might have evolved to a level of yourself where the goal doesn't really .
It doesn't really make you feel the way you thought it would , doesn't mean it's not great , it doesn't mean things aren't different . It doesn't mean you're not proud . It just doesn't fix the part of you that you thought it would fix . And I think if things work really , really well , you've already worked on that part of yourself and it's just like a bonus .
If you haven't , then unfortunately it can get to the place where you feel like you just wasted a bunch of time and now you need to set a goal for the next thing that's going to fix you , when in reality it's nothing you're going to set external that fixes you , so that if your goals are external based , don't expect to really feel that much different about
yourself internally . Maybe weight loss , I mean that's understandable because you're literally changing the way you see yourself , because you're changing the way you look . But money , relationship , it's all great , but if you don't love you , nothing on this planet is going to make you love yourself Externally .
Well , by that rationale , you want to set goals that challenge you to work on those things .
On yourself .
That's what I mean .
Yeah , yeah on yourself .
I set goals based on what they will require you to work on yourself . I set goals based on what they will require you to work on yourself Easier said than done , right ?
Because then you have to kind of have the understanding of how to reverse engineer it . This has helped me . I don't think it'll help anybody else , because it probably just sounds super cool . I don't know how useful it actually is . It probably just sounds super cool , I don't know how useful it actually is .
I went from saying when will we get there To I want to make sure that when we get there I can handle it . Like I want to make sure I'm ready when we get there . And those are two very , very different things . For me it was always like when are we going to get there ? When are we going to get this ? When are we going to get this ?
When are we going to get this ? And I still have that , it's just less Now . It's . I want to make sure when I do get the opportunity I can actually handle it . I want to make sure that's the thing . I don't want to get an opportunity and lose it because I'm not developed enough .
Okay . So level one is when are we going to get there ? Level two is I'm I want to be ready when we do get there . What's level three ?
how fast do I dictate the next level after we get to that one ? Probably how , like what happens when you get to that level , do you celebrate what ?
I was really hoping you'd say how far can I go , or how high can I go , or how high can I climb , or that that isn't part of the equation for you of reaching like and I'm not making that wrong , no , no , no , that's not it .
I don't know what my potential is . I'm not trying to get there because I don't If I thought .
Are you smarter than you ever thought you'd be For sure . Are you more competent than you ever thought you'd be For sure . Are you more confident than you ever thought you'd be For sure , all right , why ?
right . Why , how , how , instead of why , how reps the set . There was a goal set that I honestly didn't actually believe I could achieve , but there was a roadmap of well , if we do these things , this is kind of the way you would do it .
Then I just tried to show up , even when I was scared , even when I didn't think I could do it , even when I I didn't want to , very , very often , and then eventually , the things that scared scared me at level 10 out of 10 , were like nine out of 10 . And I was like , okay , that wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be .
Then it was eight out of 10 . Then it was seven out of 10 . Then I would go do something on a bigger stage . For lack of better phrasing , that scared me . At 10 out of 10 again , it's like , interesting , okay , now the thing that used to be a 7 is like a 2 because I got a new 10 .
Then I did the thing that scared me at level 10 out of 10 , and then that got better and better and better . I'm very , very confident when it comes . I don't think about this at all when you and I are getting ready to record . There's zero part of me that's nervous , worried . I'm not worried about anything , but when we do speeches , I am .
I've only done , however , many in-person speeches , but here's the thing it took 150 podcast episodes before I got confident as a podcaster . It might only take a third of that for live events , because I already have some of the attributes built up Now here's the thing .
Are you nervous for Next Level Live 2025 ? It's virtual .
No , no , no . The arena matters . If you said , kev , you're going to be on in front of 10,000 people from your office , I don't think I'd be that worried , honestly . Maybe to a delusional extent , I don't know . I feel very comfortable here . I don't think I'd be that worried , honestly , maybe to a delusional extent , I don't know . I feel very comfortable here .
I don't have to worry about what to do with my hands . I don't have to worry about where I'm walking . I just fucking sit here .
Jazz hands .
I'm just we've just you just think of the reps , Think of the amount of time my ass has been in this chair just doing this over and over , so I just I feel way more comfortable there . Now . This is something I want to add Because , again , I don't want this to all be like highlight oh yeah , it all is working out , it's all perfect .
I went on a podcast yesterday and I was looking at the description of this podcast and I said to . Alan after I said I had no business being on this fucking podcast .
This podcast and I said to Alan , after I said I had no business being on this fucking podcast , it was about startups and AI and all this stuff that I was like this is going to be horrible , going to be horrible .
Went really well . When you say it's going to be horrible , unpack the thought process , the actual thought process .
¶ Preparing for live events
The fear that I have , the deepest fear that I have , is it will either be at the very beginning of the episode , where the person says , eh , honestly , I fucked up , we're not going to do it , okay , I'll just see myself out . In the middle they'll be like no , we can't finish this , this is not what I expected .
Or at the end they'll just be like no , we can't finish this , this is not what I expected . Or at the end they'll just be like I appreciate your time . Thank you so very much . It's a lot different than I expected . I don't think it's going to be valuable to the audience .
Where does that come from ? That's not good enough . Yeah , that has never Did that stem from ?
childhood . I think it yeah , my dad leaving .
So for me , me it's the , it's the opposite . Where it's , I know , I'll do a good job . That doesn't matter if they don't like me . Well , I'm worried , you know they'll like you , but you don't think you'll do a good job there's a little part of me .
This is deep , this is deep , so please sit with me , don't judge this . There's a little part of me that was like , honestly , it's kind of like cheating , because I'm a successful podcaster and he respects me . If I didn't have the podcast , I wonder what he would think of me . It's almost like yeah , it's almost like they're .
I'm not getting the reality of the person and how they actually .
is that imposter syndrome ? Is that what that is ? What would you call that ? Yeah , I had a moment earlier . I don't mean to interrupt you , but there was a podcast I was on and he said do you struggle with imposter syndrome ? And I I this is the first time I was able to articulate it in this way .
I said I was too much of a coward in the past to share this . But no , I have imposter syndrome in social situations . Yes , at the barbecue , I feel like an imposter . I feel like I don't belong here . When I'm on the microphone being interviewed about complex success principles , I don't feel like an imposter at all . This is all I do .
I live this every fucking day , always , 24-7 , 365 . I'm not an imposter here . Kevin and I interviewed someone named Stephen Kotler for episode 632 . I actually sent it to one of my clients recently and he said wow , you're more jacked now .
I'm like dude I don't know if you're looking at the right camera , because back then Kevin and I were definitely in better shape . But Stephen Kotler wrote a book called the Art of Impossible . It's actually in my top five now behind me and it's about how to achieve something that most people think is impossible .
And before the interview , we both read the book , we do our research . Awesome . And Kevin and I talked behind the scenes .
He's like we already kind of implemented everything in this book and I said well , I've been studying peak performance , just like Stephen Kotler , for a very long time , kind of my whole life in some ways , but really especially over the last five years , at least five years at that point , 10 years now .
And the truth is is when you are aiming at something that most people think is impossible , of course you're going to stumble upon the principles that get you there Right , and I think that sounds a little overly simplistic . You basically the world , becomes your library , like we decided to do something 10 years ago .
I decided to shoot for something that's never been done . Okay , I'll keep it high level . Then I reoriented my entire mind , body , heart and soul to the world , became my library to find out how to do it . And Kevin said to me one time like how do you know all this ?
I said , brother , I had to learn this because I couldn't achieve my dream without knowing these things . So it's not like I . You're not just going to stumble upon success principles . You need to have a goal that requires you to learn them . Okay , what's my point of all this ? Kevin and I were at we spent every Father's Day together .
This is before we had the Next Level Hope Foundation Father's Day events and we went fishing , because that was what we used to do on Father's Day .
And we went back to where I grew up and my neighbor across the lake had a family Father's Day barbecue and I told Kev this is a big line of demarcation in our relationship where we learned a lot about ourselves . I felt not like an imposter at all interviewing Stephen Kotler . I felt like that was my , where I belong , and I told Kev at the barbecue .
I said , dude , I don't feel like I belong here at all . And you had the opposite reaction . You said , dude , I can . I can hang at a barbecue any day of the week . Got it Okay ? So you have imposter syndrome when you're interviewed by someone who's a space doctor at nasa ? I don't , I don't feel like I would have imposter syndrome at all .
I'd actually be concerned that he's gonna think I'm arrogant and syndrome at all . I'd actually be concerned that he's going to think I'm arrogant and I think that that's something . A lesson in that for everybody is where do you feel like you're an imposter ? I feel like I'm an imposter at Thanksgiving , 100% . I mean , I can't talk about anything I care about .
Right , what's everyone's goals and dreams for 2025 ? Uh , what , yeah , no , metrics , habits , priorities , goals , skills , thoughts . It's like who the what ? The fuck ? Isn't it thanksgiving , don't you want to eat ? So where do you feel like an imposter is a big sort of lesson I want to extrapolate out of this .
Okay , last question I know you gotta jump , how long do ?
you have nine minutes I have nine , uh like eight . I need a minute how dare you ?
i'm'm kidding . Okay , eight minutes Suckiest advice . So eight years ago you started a podcast . Boom , we're successful . Quote unquote mountain that gets higher as you climb it . Awesome Statistically speaking , though , as as podcasters , we've gotten to a place most podcasters never will .
Statistically speaking , very grateful 16 person team heard in 175 countries , 1.17 million listens okay , awesome . Very grateful . You've achieved a lot of what a lot of people want to achieve your dreams , living your dream life . What's the suckiest advice that you've gotten in the last eight years ?
A lot of what a lot of people want to achieve your dreams , living your dream life . What's the suckiest advice that you've gotten in the last eight years and why ? It's just horse shit .
¶ Debunking standard advice
Oh man , there's been a lot of it . Chase your passion , chase your purpose , money will will come . That's not true . It's not . It's just . It's just not true for most people . I think some people it works .
But it's my bad . I was in that camp for a time yeah , a little bit I know is I was good at .
I think it's really empowering . I think it's a really it's really empowering . I think it's a really it's really empowering . But without strategy , you know , you could say my passion is fitness , cool , go exercise , go awesome . But there has to be some strategy . You're not going to get any results . That that's a big . That's one of the biggest ones .
And I think the second one is if you love what you do , you never work a day in your life . I think that's one of the most disempowering things ever , because I've never met somebody who loves life all the time . There's going to be some stuff that sucks With everything . I am in the best relationship I've ever been in . I am deeply in love .
I'm going to be with Taryn for the rest of my life . There are some things that suck , but it's Outweighed by the things that are truly amazing . That , I think , it's all it is . It's just a different ratio . I used to go to jobs where I fucking hated it and some days were good , like that was a pretty good day , right . The ratio was 90% shit .
I used to go to jobs where I fucking hated it and some days were good , like yeah , that was a pretty good day , right . The ratio was . It was 90% shit and 10% cool .
And I think as you find what you love and you do more and more and more of it , the ratio shifts and then even shitty days now are better than great days used to be , because at least I'm doing what I love and I'm adding value and all that . But I work a lot .
I work every day in some way shape or form , and that's just the way I think it's going to be forever . And I would say this if , if what you do fulfills you , you'll probably be okay with working every day for the rest of your life . That there's a little part of me I told . Did I say this on the podcast ?
There was just a bunch of stuff going on with the business and I was on the couch eating dinner at like 7.30 , and I had my cell phone in one hand and my fork in the other and I was in WhatsApp for like an hour . My food was getting cold . There's a little part of me that kind of loves it . Yeah , we're making progress here . We're putting out fires .
It's stressful , but I wouldn't rather be doing anything else . So , yeah , that If what you do truly fulfills you , you're probably going to be okay with working way more than other people , and you're going to be wildly misunderstood , because I think fulfillment is a drug that we're all after , but most of us don't know how to find it , understandably so that ?
how do you find it ?
if you've ever had something where you said , oh my goodness , I'm in love with that . If I could find a way to make a living out of doing that , my life would be incredible . That's the best advice I can give , because that's where I started that you just don't want it to go away . You're afraid it's going to get taken away from you .
You're afraid you're not going to be able to do it anymore . You're afraid you're going to have to do it less . Like it's that . It's something that you feel so abundantly attached to that you can't imagine doing less of it . I can't imagine not podcasting . I can't imagine it .
My life would feel again I'm married and I have a great relationship , all that but it would feel empty . It wouldn't feel the same . It wouldn't feel the same not adding value . It wouldn't feel the same to me that I wouldn't trade it for anything . There's nothing . I would trade it for that's . I would say that's probably the highest level of fulfillment nice .
Last question yeah , three minutes . That was the suckiest advice you ever got was if you love what you do , you never work a day in your life . Bullshit . You know the card game bullshit . Yeah , that's what I like about . When you hear self-improvement principles you can call bullshit . It's like ah , you're lying . Seems too good to be true .
Yeah , it probably is , and that's the facts , because there's a constructive and destructive part of it . There's North Pole , south Pole , above the iceberg , below the iceberg . Okay , that was the suckiest advice you ever got . A couple things what's the best advice you ever got ? And actually unpack it too no bumper sticker , self-improvement .
Hmm , I always go back to big . Things start small . You said that in the very beginning . I know it's not advice , but it was like what . If you just knew that where you were starting was probably going to be more underwhelming than you thought , and that gave you the permission to actually just keep doing it . That we have a client .
Shout out to Jenna , if you're listening , actually just keep doing it . That we have a client , jenna . Shout out to Jenna , if you're listening . She just crossed 50 listens on our podcast and she was so excited . Yeah , it's like fuck . Yeah , jenna . Yes , that's awesome . There's probably a lot of people that would hear that and say like only 50 listens .
That's where everybody starts though . Every single person ever of all time has started at 50 listens in something . That's where everybody starts , though Every single person ever of all time has started at 50 listens in something that you're just .
You're not at the place where I'm at , where I can say big things start small , because I know I was there too and now I'm further and it's a whole thing . But everybody starts there In everything , In everything . So I think that's probably it , because in some way , shape or form , we're all starting from some foundation . Okay .
I'll wrap Go ahead .
I was going to say the only difference between somebody who stops at 50 listens and continues is the one who understands . 50 listens is just par for the course and a necessary metric to cross .
Well , you said this at top . I'll wrap this in a bow .
I know you're gonna go . No , it's good .
I'm gonna text this person because they're texting me right now okay , um , you said at the beginning that you're , you were playing not to lose status , social status and perception . Yeah , if someone is playing not to lose social status and perception , you're going to be too embarrassed about 50 listens to keep going . You guarantee failure .
You , yeah , you lose it by default . You lose it by default and I think that that's one thing .
And and for anyone on my side of the fence here , when it comes to playing not to lose relationships , if kevin were to give younger kev a piece of advice , it would be you have to risk losing social status in the short term in order to gain it long term , and for me it would .
You have to risk losing friends now to gain your dreams and goals , because there's no fucking chance they're coming with you on this journey . That is just not for everybody .
¶ Relationships, fulfillment & final thoughts
Strong work man . I would say that's accurate . So I'm pretending I'm just going to look straight at the camera because I can't look my laptop's here now it's a whole thing . I'm getting ready for the next interview . I'll look up here . Thank you , I appreciate it . Getting ready for the next episode . We do , we can do uh , we'll do an allen interview .
I gotta think of something good though oh , dude , it's all good you don't talk about what it's like to work with such a fucking genius ?
what is it like to to work with kev every day ? What has that been like for you ? Pretty humbling . I can imagine it's probably taught you a lot about yourself , right you ever get starstruck . You ever get starstruck by no , I I I appreciate the questions and again it's . This is this one's always hard for me because I didn't reverse engineer any of this .
I've been along for the ride . I show up , I'll change the tire , I'll put oil in it , whatever , whatever , I'll change the windshield wipers , whatever needs to get done . But you have , uh , been instrumental . I guess that that's an understatement . So you got to find yourself an allen . That that's what you got to do .
And then you got to put up with his bullshit Like again great , we got a great relationship , best business partner in the world . He's a pain in my ass sometimes , just like I'm a pain in his ass .
Well , you said it with your wife , taryn Not everything's great . 99% or 90% , I think , is what you use is great , and there's 10% that isn't great , and well , that's not , that wasn't my relationship , that was everything else .
My relationship is 99 one .
Okay , fair , fair yeah , say it on a public medium ? No , but seriously , I think that's really powerful . Okay , I know we got to get out of here .
I also desperately have to pee . Unfortunately , I got an hour and a half interview , 90 minutes right now of bladder bursting interviews . All right ,
¶ Outro
as always . We love you , we appreciate you , grateful for each and every one of you . Thank you so much for tuning in . At NLU , we don't have fans , we have family . We will talk to you all tomorrow .
Stay next level , next level nation .
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University . We love connecting with the Next Level family .
We mean it when we say family . If you ever need anything , please reach out to us directly . Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes .
Thank you again and we will talk to you tomorrow .