Have You Ever Thought About Life Like This Before? (2036)

So it doesn't matter how many episodes we have , it doesn't matter how much quote-unquote success we have . We are in the process of trying to play an infinite game , which means you play that game forever and , no matter how good you are at it , you never win the game .

However , when you are trying to reach your potential , that is a mountain that gets higher as you climb it , because the moment that you get to a goal , you realize okay , there's more , I'm capable of more , I'm capable of more . Every record gets broken . Eventually . It's like that . First four minute mile is impossible . Someone does the four minute mile .

Now high schoolers are doing it . So your potential is an infinite game and we're going to talk about that today .

We're talking about infinite versus finite , games and life and how it connects and how yes , eventually I'm going to go dark here right off the top . Eventually you're going to pass away . We're all going to pass away eventually . So we don't have an infinite amount of time .

But essentially , if the goal is to get as good as you can get , if the goal is to be as successful as you can be , as fulfilled as you can be , you never really cross a mark where it's like okay , that's it , I'm as successful as I can be . There's really no such thing as that in the grand scene of things .

So I'm going to kick it to Alan , because this is Alan's topic more than it is mine , and I'm going to adjust my mic after I kick it to Alan because it's out here .

Every book needs to be taken as its own sort of part of the spectrum , not the whole thing . So , infinite game versus finite game In the book , what he's trying to articulate is that business is actually an infinite game versus finite game .

In the book , what he's trying to articulate is that business is actually an infinite game but we treat it like a finite game

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the problem . So first let's describe infinite game and finite game and this , this you can research game theory . I've been researching chaos theory and game theory and constraint theory and all these things since I was very young . I was always very fascinated by all this In-game theory , a finite game . I've been talking a lot about chess lately .

Emilia and I are going to be playing chess this week , this weekend , and that was part of our . We each pick one thing each week that we want to look forward to . And mine was one game of chess with Emilia . And okay , a finite game is one match of chess . Let say I were to pray , pray . Well , let's say I were to play kevin in chess .

Yeah , it's late , it's late . Let's say I was to play kevin in chess . That's a finite game . A finite game has rules , it has boundaries , it has , it has a winner and a loser .

It's a finite game . There's a winner and a loser Okay , an infinite game . So playing one chess match is a finite game . Becoming the best chess player that you can personally be is an infinite game . You don't ever arrive . There is no chess player in the world who can't get better .

They treat things like the end-all , be-all , when in reality it's a , it's one brick to the building , it's one drop in the ocean , it's one grain of sand in the sands of time . No , but seriously , one of the reasons why finite thinking is so dangerous is because money is not finite . Money is an infinite game .

I know it sounds like it's not and it certainly doesn't feel like it is . Okay , I understand , but for example , let me give you an example . For example , let me give you an example . This is going well . Okay , if this was the 1930s , you , in your current lifestyle , would be considered the highest quality of life of any human on planet earth .

So the human species has evolved over time . Iphones didn't exist 100 years ago . The internet didn't exist 100 years ago . It's a bunch of finite games . The iphone is a finite thing . But the pursuit of better and better phones , the pursuit of better and better .

But the pursuit of better and better phones , the pursuit of better and better people , the pursuit of better and better economics , the pursuit of better and better cameras , the pursuit of better and better films . That's infinite . And so if you treat your potential finite , you're screwed , because it's a fixed mindset . That's the truth .

A finite mindset means if Kevin gets money , that means I lose . It's a zero-sum game . But that's not true . Kevin's win is not my loss , unless we're playing a direct finite game . If you and I play horse together at the Next Level Hope Foundation event , which we did , there's a winner and a loser . But that doesn't mean you suck and you lose forever .

That means next time you play you can get better , and I think that's the detriment is people with finite thinking . They hurt each other and they hurt themselves because they're playing in a very scarce world . Now we talked on the last episode about scarcity versus abundance , and I tend to be overly abundant .

This is why I think in an infinite game , my career is not predicated on just this moment . My career is a building . This moment is building . My career is not predicated on just this moment . My career is a building .

This moment is building my career , and that's , I think , the best way to put it is each chess match is one building block in becoming a chess master , and that's the metaphor that I hope people are taking , the mindset people are taking when it comes to their potential and their career and how much wealth they can build , and their relationship .

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It comes down to belief . If you don't have self-belief , you won't set a goal . If you don't set a goal , there's no opportunity cost . There's no playing to win , there's only playing not to lose well , all of us all of us do have a goal , it's just unconscious back in the day oh sorry , go ahead .

The best thinkers for lack of better phrasing think both finite and infinite . So I'm thinking finite right now of wanting this episode to go . Really well , but this episode is one building block in a greater tapestry of our careers . Yeah , do you think about it like that ?

More now than I used to , but yeah , back in the day it was like , if this goes poorly , I think we're done forever .

For anybody on youtube who sees alan looking to the left we're having some , some sound issues , so he quite literally has to monitor his sound for the entirety of this episode . I had to do it before .

There's a little sneaky part of me that is not glad , but I'm happy he's doing it so he knows what it takes , because I had to do it and it was like dude , that was terrible .

The metaphor I used in my head was athletes play injured all the time nobody even knows right fighters , they're injured all the time . Nobody even knows Right Fighters they're injured all the time . All the time . Yeah , I mean , when you're in the gym , no one knows that my ankle hurts or my left knee was tweaked a little bit .

You just have to do what you got to do . You never know . Everything's different from the inside out than the outside in , but that's not what we're here to talk about today . What we're here to talk about today , what we're here to talk about today , is infinite versus finite . In hindsight , brother , what were the detriments of you thinking ?

But the reason I'm living for the now is because the now adds up to forever , as opposed to in the past . I'm living for now because now is all that matters , and if I don't survive now , I'm not going to do this forever . But I think it's just a . If you have a lack of belief Again , this is like the number one pillar at NLU is self-belief .

Yeah 100% the amount of self-belief you have , the amount of confidence you have and your unique capability to achieve something in the external world . That dictates . This is a really good example of that to a degree . Really good , it's a really good example of that to a degree .

So , alan and I last week this week , technically , but last week , if you're listening to this episode we've been going on podcasts together and we used to do that all the time Back in the day . We used to do it all the time . We stopped doing it for a long time just because it's hard to our schedules don't always align . It's a whole thing .

And this week we went on two and after the second one I called alan . I said , brother , I had a massive breakthrough . And he's like what , what's , what do you got ? And I said I would never get invited to podcasts like that on my own yeah , why do you think that ? is why because I'm not that type of person , I'm not Type A .

I don't think I look good on paper . I think my story , I have a good story , I have an impactful story . A lot of people want to talk about my story and I appreciate that . I'm always grateful and privileged to do that . But outside of that , I don't have a great resume . I didn't . I think it .

Yeah , I'm not type A , so I don't think type A people resonate with me and , very honestly , I usually don't resonate with type A people either .

I mean , that's not what we're doing here , but what I will say is that I used to resonate a lot with achievers and I now have learned I resonate a lot . I think my whole life . I've always resonated a lot with people that are and are not achievers , although I do think that a lot of people were pretending to be achievers around me .

So maybe that was part of it . But yeah , back to the infinite and finite thing . When you have a lot of self-belief , you tend to be very optimistic about the future because you feel very in control of it . There's something to that . Maybe this is another episode we'll do at some point . How in control of your own future do you feel ?

That's a very important thing , like when we were at next level live . I said , okay , now this is gonna . I'm gonna get kevin to sound cocky . Hey , kev , zero to ten . How certain are you ? You can lose 10 pounds in 10 weeks ? You're like 10 , said see , all his brain did was okay , I know how to do it . I've done it before . I can do it again .

Here's the calculation less calories , more exercise , boom , boom , boom , boom done . That's why I think I often come off arrogant is because I'm just calculating it . There's certain things at NLU that are going very well for us .

Those things are things that we strategized about years ago Sometimes months ago , but years ago and there's things that I said would happen for us years ago that are now happening and Kev's like , oh , and vice versa . And then there's certain things not going so well and then we have to figure out why . Okay , well , obviously I was missing something .

So the infinite and finite game thing if you have low self-belief , you're automatically going to be playing not to lose , to the point of the last episode and you're going to be playing a finite game . When you go to play chess with someone , is your fear losing ? I'm only playing to try to get better .

I actually like playing people better than me well , yeah , you're on the way .

170 is a finite game . Great , okay , now what ? Now you're 170 .

The point is to weigh the same amount but to have more muscle . That is the point of bodybuilding . Why .

I want to be somebody who can do a really good job of taking care of myself , and I think exercise and fitness is definitely one way for sure . And I don't know what the studies are , but there is studies associated with muscle the amount of muscle you have and longevity .

falling and breaking a hip , and so if you have good quads , you don't tend to do that . Okay , next Level Nation , we would love to invite you to our 18th round of Next Level Group Coaching . It is the Next Level Podcast Accelerator .

If you are a podcaster who wants to level yourself up , level your podcast up and level your business up , this 12-week program is perfect for you .

It comes to less than $25 per session for the 12 sessions . Kevin or I will be on every single one of them . We hope to see you there . So okay , well , what's the point in living longer ? Like we can play this game forever .

I can just keep asking questions and eventually you're going to get to the inevitable answer of my quality of life will be higher overall . That's eventually where I'm going to get you , because that's why any of us do anything . The problem is we're playing the game wrong .

Some people are playing checkers , some people are playing chess , some people aren't playing any games They've opted out . A lot of people are very nihilistic and they say well , what's the point in exercising ? We're all going to die anyway .

Something happened to me and I've just been eating the same thing every night and I'm like super fucking excited about it . I just have ground beef , a whole bag of brus sprouts and then some sort of carbohydrate , nice . And yesterday Taryn called me and she said hey , I'm stopping at the grocery store , do you need anything ?

And I said if I told you what I had for dinner , it would make you physically ill .

Let's say , in this box I'm building a finite box right now , I'll connect it to the episode even Finite box . In this box , suffering is mandatory . Would you rather suffer either in place or backwards , or would you rather suffer upwards and onwards right now ? nice I am choosing the suffering towards goals . I again it either happens now or it happens eventually .

Either you , you pinch your purse straps is that what people say ? Pinch pennies . Whatever it is Now and you tighten the purse strings . Tighten the purse strings . Thank you so much .

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We were asked why grit , why be , why suffer ? What's the point ? Right , and it's a valid question . Let's actually contemplate it . Let's actually do this . Let's , let's have this conversation .

On top of my answer the people who are sacrificing , struggling and suffering and grinding toward their goals and dreams will always be the envy of the people sitting around feeling sorry for themselves . Okay , I've been on the other end , see .

I've been on the end of complacency and sitting around feeling sorry for myself while I watched other people live out their dreams .

It's not going to happen overnight , but day by day , brick by brick , you can achieve your dream body . You can achieve your dream , achieve your dream life . You can achieve your dream relationship , believe it or not . I struggled to believe that one and you can totally do it . But it's not going to be easy and it's not going to happen overnight .

Okay , she said well , why grit ? What's the point Like ? How do you , how do you push through suffering ? And I said , honestly , I'm not going to give you the rah , rah . It's worth it , it's going to be great , it's all going to work out . I'm going to give you the truth . It's better than the alternative . It's just better than the alternative .

Why did you do the marathon when it was so painful , alan ? It's better than giving up and not believing in myself as much , because then I'd have to spend the rest of my goddamn life saying I almost crossed the finish line . I did a triathlon once . It was up a hill . I'll never forget it . I hit the wall .

I had never done a triathlon before and I was suffering on another level because I did not train for this . I was up until 2 am . I ate McDonald's the night before my own fault , okay . All the night before my own fault , okay , all my fault . Truth be told , show up . Never trained for it . Let's rock and roll . I tend to be reckless .

I'm coming up this hill okay , this is a half mile swim . This is a 14 mile bike 13 or 14 , and then it's a 5k . Okay , I'm two-thirds through this 5k and I'm coming up a hill and the sun hits me around this bend and it is just every cell in my being wanted to quit . I'm talking . If I was gonna quit , it would have been right fucking .

Then and I said Alan , the alternative is worse . You're not gonna spend the rest of your fucking life regretting the fact that you quit . You will suffer for a purpose . You said you were going to do this . It's game time Now . I don't want this to be toxic masculinity . I want this to be the truth .

My highest self came in and said Alan , you can fucking do this . You can do this and I was right . Highest self was right . I did it . Okay , it wasn't perfect , but I came in two minutes behind the person who had done a ton of triathlons and I did a good job and I'm so proud of myself . It's you versus you . I did a 5k this past summer .

I came in 42nd or something you versus you but I did better than the day before , the year before . We're going to do it again this year . I'm going to beat my time . It's you versus you . It's an infinite game . It's finite games within an infinite game .

One 5K , one marathon , one triathlon , one podcast episode , one coaching session those are all finite games . But it builds you . Everything you do and don't do Either builds you into the man or woman you aspire to be , or it tears you down , and I used to drink and I used to do all the stuff that was tearing me down .

It was it was not building me into my own dream self . We all have that potential inside of us . We all have that vision of what we could be and what our life could look like .

And between us now and that future potential is a bunch of finite games , that kind of blow and within an infinite game , and when our life does end because all of us , to Kevin's point , are going to die , one day we're going to face whether or not we reached our true potential , whether or not we gave it our all .

And there's a lot of dark stuff happening in the world right now . I know , you know , I know a lot of people know there's a lot of really shady shit going on . And every time Emilia and I have a discussion and she starts talking about how women are being treated and all this stuff and how bad all that is , and I'm with you 1,000% .

I sit there and I say , sweetheart , are we doing all we can with all we have ? And she said yes , and I say let's keep doing that and let's do it better , because that's what's in our control . What's in our control is doing all you fucking can with all you fucking have with all you fucking have .

And the truth is , if you can't say you are , one day that's gonna come back and bite you , and I've been there .

And you might lose , like all of the games , while people are watching , and then eventually those people are going to be like I don't want to watch this fucking game anymore . This is terrible . I'm going to go watch something else .

But you continue going and you're behind the scenes and you're growing and you're evolving and you're fulfilled and you're getting results you never thought you could . But for the vast majority of it , unfortunately , you're not getting the results you want . And it's this weird freaking thing .

You're going to cut , then you're going to bulk , then you're going to cut , then you're going to bulk , then you're going to cut , then you're going to bulk , then you're going to cut , then you're going to bulk . Why ? What's the point ? Because you're trying to reach your potential and it's a mountain that gets higher as you climb

it . So , to flip the script real quick , what is the upside of not trying to reach your potential ? Let's actually talk about the upside of that . There's a huge downside . The downside of not reaching your potential , I do believe , is lack of fulfillment and lack of meaning .

I think we've all known what it's like to really not try , and it can be very depressing . I've been there . But what is the upside ? You just get to have a lot more fun and you don't really have to have a lot of responsibility , like I would ask you .

You're an idiot and something bad's going to potentially right that that's . That's an example of that . But outside of that it's like , yeah , you go smoke a joint , go to the beach , awesome , awesome . You want to watch the sunset on the beach smoking a joint fucking awesome , that's great it is great in the moment .

Contribution same deal . Quality of life is enjoying the present . There's a way to have all three . There is , but you . There's no way to have all three . There is , but you . There's no way to maximize all three .

You have a certain syntax and this is what we used to do in group coaching before it became the podcast accelerator . We would , we would say what's your syntax ? So , kevin is so if it's growth , contribution , quality of life , kevin is quality of life . No contribution First , quality of life Second , growth , third .

For me , it's growth first , contribution second , quality of life third . And Emilia , at one point in our relationship she had to say like we're missing that third one you and I , we don't even have it in our equation Like we need to improve our quality of life .

And once I started seeing how poorly I was aging , I started to bump that one up , because I think I've aged like six years in the last three , and I'm typically someone who looks 15 , so I got .

Back-to-back 85 sleep scores Nice work . One night I only got 7 hours and 20 minutes of sleep and I still pulled an 85 . Nice work , so that might be something Very good . I can't tell you to take it because I'm not a doctor . But very good , I can't tell you to take it because I'm not a doctor , but I'm taking it .

You're not going to reach your potential if you're constantly not taking care of yourself . However , if you're only ever on the beach watching sunsets , you're not going to , you're not going to achieve your dreams either . So there's a way to .

There's a way to harmonize growth , contribution and quality of life in the finite game that leads to the infinite game of of doing all you can with all you have . And I'm going to have a family and all that stuff . I want to spend quality time with my family too .

So , but it's not going to be nine hours a day , and maybe that is true for some people , maybe that's what they want . But everyone , it's unique . Your own unique version of success , that's it . That's it .

I don't really want to work that hard . I want a vacation , I want to hang out with my friends , but I do , in 50 years , want to live in a mansion . So well , that's . I think you're only going to get one of those , unfortunately , Unless you're like unbelievably good looking , you could probably get away with it . Like , there's ways , Right ?

I don't want to do this . I'd rather be in bed snuggling with my wife . I haven't seen my wife . I've been working since 6 am all day . It sucks . But one contribution super , super important . Quality of life is taking a hit . But that's kind of how you think about it Right now .

The quality of life in this moment is not great , but contribution is 10 out of 10 .

So if you're looking for a group of like-minded , positive people and you're looking for a daily inspiration , the podcast is , I would say , daily lessons . Facebook group is a little bit easier to digest . You're not really going to have to contemplate life every day in there . Some days it might be like what's your favorite flavor of ice cream .

Other days it might be like on a scale of zero to 10 , how well are you doing in health , wealth and love ? I think that was the most recent post , so we'll have the link below . We'd love to have you there , because growth-minded people with growth-minded people do growth-minded things .