413 - North and South

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North and South, your combat prowess and brilliant strategy could rewrite history.

And welcome to Nestalgia, a chronological exploration of every NES game released in North America. I'm Mike. And I'm Sean. You could Rewrite history. Yeah yeah. Um is that really like is that a is that the selling point of the game? Uh that did you have the chance to right some wrongs? No. I I don't I think it's just for people That are very interested in that time period, Mike. Agreed, agreed. North and South.

is uh a mashup of a turn based strategy game and real time action what I'll be calling party games. Uh because I wanna make this sound like Mario Party as much as possible throughout the episode. But it's all wrapped under a civil war campaign. That's right. The North and South that are in the title of the game are referring to the North and the South uh fighting in the Civil War between the years. The American Civil War. Right. The American Civil War eighteen sixty one to eighteen sixty four.

Uh, you know, it it basically appro the game is approached from a risk light, which is funny'cause we were talking about risk last week for no good reason. But you have this map where uh, you know, e each state is a uh is a territory up for grabs by both the north and the south.

And uh you want to just like in RISC, you wanna conquer all the territories, you wanna do that here, but in order to do so, it isn't just uh my number's bigger than your number, roll some dice thing. It's actually uh each each time you try to take something over turns into a little party game where the armies collide or you try to uh steal the railroad or you try to infiltrate a uh Uh uh what what is that? Is that just like a town? Is that a s is that's a fort.

It's a fort. Okay, yeah. Try to infiltrate the fort. Uh, all these little things to just spice up the gameplay a little bit so it isn't just risk or it isn't just strategy. They're adding they're adding some video game components to this otherwise what would be if we're looking at some of our

grander strategy games that we've played by Koei, this isn't that. So b first question, is the main appeal the strategy layer or is it really the fact that the strategy is just a way to trigger these mini games? Um that's a good question. Um I I would say that yes, I think my I think the main appeal is the strategy because I don't think that there's any real depth

in the mini games. Um and if I can i if I may, I think that this is finally the kind of strategy game that I was looking for on the system. Um I think I got a little bit ahead of myself when I said at one point that I was looking forward to something such as um uh Nobunaga's Ambition or Romance of the Three Kingdoms or Genghis Khan or whatever the the hell else we played recently. Um this is what this is more what I'm looking for. Uh something that has strategy.

Um but isn't just a giant spreadsheet. Yes, agreed. Uh the one we played most recently was Bandit Kings of Ancient China. I remind you sounds like a uh a song Wings would have wrote uh in in the late seventies. Uh yes, I agree with you. I think That uh especially on an eight bit system, this makes more sense. But I don't want you to forget, and I'm pretty sure back then you were you were playing all the games too, so I think you were on the episode, Defender of the Crown.

That was kind of a a a game like this that was like strategy adjacent. There weren't like the party uh I I'm sorry, I'm not I can't call them party games any longer. I really wanted to force it, but They're really just like light mini games um that do have that do have fail states. Like you it's not just like There and there is depth to the like one on one combat, not so much the raid the train, but yeah, there's depth there. Right.

But it's all Everything, both the the fact that there is a civil war, the fact that um you c conquer these states, the fact that you fight off in a war, it's all kind of done under this uh cartoonish uh like comic vibe with both the art style and just like the overall behavior of of uh like the animation in general and that's because the game is an adaptation of uh like a French comic about The American Civil War, uh Les Tuniques Bleu uh which is the blue coats.

And um I g I guess like is that necessary? Like I did not look into this comic at all because I didn't feel like

I don't feel like a the it doesn't feel like a licensed thing. Like yeah, it could be inspired by that, but is it really like enough of a thing? Like it just this kind of feels like a standalone game. You don't need to know any other material other than the fact that the Civil War happened Well I think that's why Unlike a lot of situations where, you know, a game would be based on a property that we just don't have in the States. they didn't find any reason to change anything because

Reg maybe it maybe it's beloved in Belgium or wherever the fuck it's from. But Oh you're right. No, it is Belgium. Yeah. But it to to us it just looks like a cartoonish version of the Civil War, which is a choice in the States, but um I think it still works if you're going to make a Civil War game, then why not just use what's already been made? It's a s it treats a serious subject with cartoon visuals, and so I ask you, does the light tone of it all make it easier?

to approach playing this game as the South, or does it flatten the whole thing and just you know, it's like window dressing for kind of a

an outcome that's just not comfortable for a North American landscape. I can totally understand why, like, you know, similar to ha you know, playing as the uh the Japanese in in some of the World War II schmups, why it's like it's okay, but like i you know, the Civil War game happening a and being released in America, yeah, d you know, there's there's some conflict there. Um I mean this isn't the only

Oh no, yeah, we'll get into it. Yeah, this isn't the only Civil War uh like strategy game. I I don't think there's any

And but yeah, your point it being kind of this light, I don't have a problem with it. I think there's also like much weirder things going on in this game than just the fact that it is a Civil War uh cartoony game. Um I I think I like the first moment I like thought, Oh, this is gonna be weird, is when in the opening sort of summary uh when you start a game in nineteen eight sorry, in nine in eighteen sixty one, uh it says that the Confederates stormed uh Fort Sumner.

Which is not a thing or a real place. Um but it was it was just I was just sort of like stealing myself for like this is gonna be weird. It ended up being weird, but we'll we'll get there. We'll get there. Yeah, so you you pick a side, the Union or the Confederacy, and um then you can start the campaign in and in all different years, between eighteen sixty one to eighteen sixty four.

And that does change the uh the opening. So it's kind of like a a chess thing where the the opening board i it can be a little different dependent on skill level and everything and how you wanna go about that. But the practical objective is to take territories, build up your army through the income gained, uh mostly through the railroad, where the railroad is key in this game, and then grind the opponent down until they cannot hold any more of their When you win.

in this game or even just make progress? Do you feel like it is because of a combination of smart positioning and being good at the mini games? Or is it is it like predominantly like just a numbers game or just a I'm really good with a controller?

I I think it's I'm really good with the controller, at least when it comes to like the one on one battles. Um I I think it's important to we that we actually kind of give a little bit of an overview of how these work. Um you have Uh infantry, cavalry, and artillery. Now, if this were any other strategy game that we've ever played, there would be like a turn-based like select what they do.

And then you would watch that occur, maybe, um, or it would just be a literal number cruncher calculator which would say, like almost civilization style, like uh which which of these wins? Um but no, you go with however whatever the number of infantry, whatever the number of cavalry, and however many uh GIANT Cannons you have.

And you cannons are the cannons are the brute force. Like that is yeah, you live and die by your cannons. So you have to concurrently control all three of these things. Now, they make it simple enough to switch between control of Sending your cavalry forward, manually controlling the formation and uh like fine-tuning where your infantry goes, and then you have a more like You you have like a m it's a longer

Shot selection for the artillery, but you have to do everything at once, and you kind of just have to be really good at multitasking. Um, so there is a a big skill I don't know about a big skill ceiling, but skill at this part of the game can determine whether you win the strategy portion, whether or not you're any good at strategy.

Yeah, it's a great point because there there's there the way that they position you too, it is just like One side's on the left, one side's on the right, and then depending on where you are, there's like a river or a canyon and then there's some bridges that you have to cross over. And Big open fields where there's just a big thing. my my point being is that like you would think

whoever has more troops is going to win. But to Sean's point about multitasking, I did play this game with Joe who couldn't be here. Um, but when we versed each other, there were times for both of us where it was just like You know, a misplay on the controller could completely screw up. Like you you could get your cavalry over to the cannons and and get the job done. It didn't always guarantee like a n the numbers game, and so it could the tide could change very fast.

um in something that should have been a sure thing now becomes like a um you know uh a a risky decision of like, well, my opponent might be better at me than this, so I don't know if I want to go in there while they have equal amount of troop Yeah, and then there's the fact that you however many troops are left if Like if you did win but it was like you only just barely won

Or if you somehow uh retreated, like that unit now only has as many like they might only have like two infantry left, or they'll just have the cannon. So you then have to sort of sacrifice a pawn on the board to reinforce, um and uh and wait for the train to come around to actually pay you enough taxes to get another unit. Um So it it can be once you lose a battle it can be kind of like a death spiral.

As far as like for the strategy layer, uh it's turn based movement. On your turn, you move armies from state to adjacent state.

Um and you can move all your units too, so there is a a lot of uh movement going on and everybody can see this too. It's not like you can hide what you're doing from uh your opposition. The the part of me that like I maybe it's too simple is like I do kinda wish I I'm not trying to ask for it to be like a whole nother game, but that there was some kind of like Oregon Trail component of like moving an army across.

different state geographies. Like if you're crossing a river or something that there could be some potential like dysentery or casualties along the way of like just you know, things that just go wrong when you're trying to in the grand step strategy space we call that attrition.

Okay, sure. You know, like just just little things that could potentially happen. Doesn't have to be again a whole thing that like the player has to control, but just to just spice up uh and make like uh you know, oh, crossing a river versus like, well, this is just, you know, crossing you know, uh land to land as opposed to like over a mountain or something. Like just maybe a little more strategy there is a little too simple. But once you get over that,

Uh, y you there are multiple ways to capture states and and it's not it doesn't always involve conflict. There first off, depending on what year you pick, there might be empty states. So there you might immediately rush to those states because once you land on an empty state you acquire it. It's like monopoly rules, but you don't even have to pay anything. Then if there are enemy controlled states With their flag but no defending army, you capture those.

Then if uh but you do have to um you do have to infiltrate their fort. Uh then there are uh states that are occupied by Yeah, if it has a fort. Then there are states occupied by the enemy army where you have to do the battle that we were talking about with the three different units. And last but not least, there are the rail towns. Um, those are the ones that force the fort mini-game. Um, and and you have to uh take down you have to basically get it's a race against the clock.

to get to the flag at the end. It's kinda weird. It's like Super Mario Brothers. You're you're in like a side scrolling stage where you have to try to get to the flag within the time limit. But the other player, whether it's a human or the computer, kinda just randomly spawns into the screen every now and again and and gets in your way.

They have a certain amount of lives. You have infinite lives. You just have to uh tr you know, like they're just basically blocking you off to not be able to get a big thing. Yes, exactly. But I don't wanna I I wanna focus on the strategy layer before we get too into the games because I feel like it's best to break these things up. There are other things you can do. You can join forces, you can merge your armies. So if you have um like one cannon and two cavalry and then you have

Three cannons and eight infantry. You can merge those together by moving one into the other, but you can never undo a merge. Yeah. So it is it's very permanent, it's very purposeful. It it doesn't feel like a bug to me. It feels uh like something that they put in design so this way you couldn't just do this without any kind of repercussions.

And then you can also um You can do surround captures, which is something that didn't come up in in my experiences, but you can theoretically own all of the states of occupying an adjacent state and then just like you surround that state and and acquire it. That is pretty cool too. Making giant like perimeter breeches.

It is cool. Um, but now that we're talking about this layer, um especially and I guess only if you're playing against the computer, it's very it's very easy um To just not see any of it. because you've just rushed the two enemies that are on the board in an 1861 start. and you may have won those battles and the game is over

six months into what the war would have been. Um so I think this is definitely like stuff you might see in a multiplayer game, which I think is the correct way to play this game. Um, it's just that they're I mean and I again I only played uh on level one of the like playing as the North against a level one Confederacy uh in eighteen sixty one where there's only a couple units on the board. So I felt like

I was missing a lot. Like this just it it like it's got all of the bones of a s like, a simple strategy game, but one that seems pretty fun. Uh, it just felt like there wasn't enough time for me to see everything. Uh So I guess I could have played in a harder difficulty to get to that point and actually explore those uh strategy layers, but I ended up not doing that.

Yeah, I mean I also think it just comes down to the kind of uh whether it's a computer opponent or a human opponent, it just comes down to the the situation'cause I think a lot of those things that I described i y you you might

if it's a human opponent, you might face someone who also plays similar to you, right? Very like, Okay, you're going here, I'm going there and then there are other ones who are like, Well, I wanna capture those rail towns. You can take every other state. I don't give a shit, you know? It's like there are

There are different outcomes to the game where it's not just so simple of like uh I just have to eliminate every um uh every opponent because there's a whole like after everybody's gone There's a replenishing stage of the you know, the the states that you uh that you own and especially the ones that are connected to the railroad, those help generate new soldiers which are very important um to the game because they again soldiers aren't even just

an individual soldier on that battlefield, they count as a whole like division. Right. A whole division that can continue to conquer uh states that aren't occupied. So you you know, you might have an incredible army by merging everybody together, but you're just one unit on the screen moving around, whereas somebody else could have five smaller units occupying five different turns that they can make. So there is still some like There's not a ton of depth. Like not enough that I feel like

A ten year old couldn't at least attempt this game. Like Nobunaga I feel like is out of a ten year old's reach. But there is still some good decision making here to be had. Uh, especially when you introduce the optional stuff, you know, there's the the ability to introduce uh storms and uh Europe and uh Native Americans and Mexicans into the game. And And all those things are like, you know, optional additional ways to so the Native Americans and the Mexicans are um they can periodically attack

Uh I think the Mexicans uh what is it? Do they attack whoever owns Texas? They're always on a siesta until they decide to trigger and they will I think they'll attack a unit that's in one of the southern spaces. But Right, okay. Uh and then the Native Americans are kind of like that, only they're always on the lookout. um and will attack you if you're in more of the Midwest spaces. So uh very French way of uh ma maybe American, but I think uh the French can

Get off easy on this, maybe. Yeah, yeah. The the storm cloud, uh w I had all these turned on in in my game against Joe. Um the storm cloud makes it so that whatever wherever the storm is on that state you can't m you the army on that state cannot move. Yes. Uh you a and so like that happened and that was kind of that's kind of I guess what I was looking for for movement in general is just more of that kind of stuff.

to just not in not even introduce some randomness, but just make it so that it felt more like I wasn't just uh moving pieces across board spaces, but that it actually felt like a real environment that you know you were trying to conquest. I I did like that. Um maybe not so much the uh the context for the other two, but something like weather change uh just like giving you some actual geography or the something to actually uh differentiate

uh so that it's not just a symmetrical game um w is always good. Some of the to throw a wrench into it uh makes it feel like a more engaging strategic situation.

And the last one, the European reinforcements. Uh a boat will um come to whoever is occupying North Carolina and uh deliver reinforcements. Uh and obviously like the uh the French were instrumental in uh changing the tide of the Civil War, so I think this is the one that feels kind of weird that it's optional. Instrumental in turning the tide of the Civil War?

Weren't they? Like they supplied the arms that they that the North desperately needed and they could have went with the South. Oh. They were kind of like uh uh let them fight for a while and then they just chose the Union. I thought they were just I thought it was more like a Revolutionary War thing and not so much a civil war. But I guess I don't know. They just keep coming back. They just can't get their hands. French are bros, huh? I know, right? And what do we do for them?

We rename our fries. Uh yes, no, but it's true. It's not it's not as big as the American Revolution where obviously like uh you know, who knows what the outcome would have been. It would have just been longer. But uh defin definitely would have been longer, but uh here i i I think it's interesting that they make it North Carolina Because making it one state as opposed to just the coast in general, like kind of supplying the coast via boat.

makes it so much more important. Like it it it i it can't be stressed to how valuable im reinforcements are in this game and that's why again you go after the railroads and you go after North Carolina. Um because those ones will continuously deliver basically arms for you to not be brute forced out by your opponent um in in the mini game section. You'll still always have a supply of people.

Speaking of with the the railroad and everything, the after everybody makes the moves, the train also um makes its stops and if basically whatever you whatever railroad towns you own, you collect a tax on those and when you collect five bags of gold you get a new army unit. And so you can have multiple, uh, if you own all the rail, you can get enough to have everything. So

Me and Joe really fought over those railroad states and didn't really care about what was going on in Maine. Or New or New York,'cause the map is kinda weird. I guess that's it's a very strange map. Uh but I think it it mostly works. I think that it's

I I guess um what am I trying to say here? I think this would make a really good board game. I don't really know how you would I don't know how you would sort of make the uh the the mini games or like the battles actually engaging and not just like a dice roll, uh but Uh you do like duck duck goose. Yeah. But it seems they they didn't really care so much for, you know, geography or uh historic Railroad route.

Um, but that C really makes it hard to control the whole thing. So it's at least designed for balance, so that's pretty cool. Also, um I think we mentioned it, but like if you are in enemy territory and happen upon uh one of these towns, you can just sort of get some Wild West boarding of a uh boarding of a train and he'd kinda do like a variation of the uh of the fort mini game. Um it's it's interesting.

Yeah, and I think both of those we can go a little more in depth on those now, both whether it's the fort or the train, still the same idea. You control a single soldier, uh uh in a side scrolling level, just running to the right under a time limit. Uh you have uh like

Y knives that you can throw, right? You throw the knives? You are a knife throwing soldier in the United States of America. You throw knives, right? No guns. No such thing as guns. Yes. Uh and then you once you run out of knives you can punch. Um And and so in the fort there's obstacles like there's dogs, there's explosives, there's ladders you have to climb because obstacles make it this way you can't you can't you don't have like a jump button.

Uh yeah, so you have to if if something's in your way, you have to climb up a building to go around it. Uh typical, you know, uh fort stuff. And then as long as you th there's like a There's a f a boot and there's a clock. Like like a typical clock that you would to stop an alarm clock. It's like a boot with like a mouse. Yeah. And both those things are at the bottom of the screen racing against each other, but it's actually the boot is you and the clock is time. And

And so you have to try and this sounds very complicated. It's actually pretty simple. And can be fun. I think they messed this up though, and I think I could speak for Joe here too, because it lost him the game. But I think they messed it up because of how the opponent spawns into both of these, whether it's the train or the fort. the the one the single soldier running to the right is basically invincible, can only be temporarily knocked out, and the opposition

can can control how they spawn in. Like I think you hit the button to confirm that you wanna come in, but you do just kinda pop in to the screen. It's not like you you you just kinda spawn out of thin air and it creates some awkward encounters and it makes it a little easier for the The defender. Yeah, the attacker. To to anticipate and get around. And even if they don't get around it the first time, they'll get around it the second time. I really think you should have been able to incapacitate

the attacker as well and just like knock them off the train and the train moves on without them, right? Or the Ford is like, you know, y you take enough damage and y you're dead. Uh it should have been that in addition to the clock because it It it makes it too easy to take over. I don't know. That that kind of like will just lead to turtling at that point, right? Like Sure, yeah, no, I I mean I'm not I'm not saying that the game is unbalanced, so I feel like they d they had their reasons.

I I just feel like the the uh the defender feels incredibly weak in both these scenarios. I guess I need to play multiplayer. Well, I was able to successfully defend, so was Joe. Uh but I do know that like once I got better at attacking

Joe was no longer able to defend against me, or at least not come you know, in our game, come up with a strategy in enough time. I'm sure he would have eventually figured out a way to turn tides back, but it basically made it so that uh at one point I was losing pretty badly and then it just became uh well now it's just you know a matter of how many times can we do the train game before I take all your towns.

Cool. All that to say, the single soldier thing also feels very strange because the whole thing is about this you know, like your army, right? And your merging troops and how many cannons you have.'Cause remember, if you lose your if you win the fight but still the opponent was able to take some of your cannons or cavalry or infantry out

that that number sticks with you. So that whole part is tracking, but then at the end of the day they just have like one lone guy go in to infiltrate this stuff. It's like Not that you should have a cannon in this side scrolling thing. That wouldn't make any sense either. But the army count should matter for both sides too. If you're a defending If if nothing else, then maybe like the amount of like'cause you have uh

Basically a lives pool as a defender of how many guys you get to like interfere with the the attacker and maybe it should also affect how many knives you have. I don't know. But I agree there should be something there. Something to just because this part really did feel like a and it's supposed to be, right? It is the it is a skill check thing. It is like a moment to shift tides without just being like

Uh uh I know exactly how to uh take all your states, right? It's like no, you have to prove it in actual video game gameplay. Makes sense. It's the thing that separates it from the board game that Sean was describing. I just I'm not completely sold.

The game originally came out on computers for uh Amiga and Atari S T and a whole bunch of others, DOS, ca uh C sixty four, ZX Spectrum. Which I think they say ZX Spectrum, I like that. Should we be saying that going forward? I call it the ZX Spectrum because it's a European m thing. So Right. And so it makes sense for this game to be a computer thing and it's kind of interesting that it came over to the NES, but sure we'll take it.

What's more interesting is that after the release of this game and all of its uh ports to other platforms. The license, right, of the blue coats kinda went through. silent and has like a very recent explosion in the twenty in twenty twelve where two different games came out in two thousand and twelve. Uh North and South, the game. I don't know why they needed that, the the game part. Like it it first off, it was released on iOS, so it's like did they were they worried about getting sued

Yeah, it's this game remade. Wow. Uh, so totally different graphics and everything, but like yeah, it's this game. But also like, were they worried about getting into uh like a lawsuit with a maps thing, like north and south, like uh Can't do you have to you have to make sure it's identifiable, the game. And then there's also the blue coats North verse South, which makes makes a lot more sense, right? North verse south. Is it also just this game?

It's a remake of this game. Came out in this listen, that that one, the blue coats, came out in June of twenty twelve. North and South the game came out in November of twenty twelve. Did did like the copyright expire extra early? I don't know, but if they're both remakes of the exact same game made by two different companies, that's even more confusing to me. Yes, they they are. Um and what's even more confusing is is that the um

The first the second one, the blue coats north versus south, uh the the Steam version and the console versions are all delisted, so you can't even get them anymore. Darn. Then we went eight years without any north and south games and that was very sad. But thankfully Uh i on October twenty seventh, twenty twenty, the blue coats North and South. It's like how many variations of this title can you come up with? It's not it still feels complicated too.

North and South? What it should be north versus south, right? Or north south. North north slash south. Everybody's saying north and south, but nobody's saying south and north. Well, there's a reason. Okay, good. Uh anyway, that game in twenty twenty was released for Nintendo Switch. Uh it's by the same people who made um the blue coats North verse South and um Yeah, the one that was delisted. But here's the kicker. They added, because now it's on Switch, they added an FPS.

Uh like battles. Yeah, so there's still the there's still the strategy stuff, but then when you go into the battles it's all f uh FPS. Like is it a Competent FPS or like uh from what I watched, it yeah, it's probably just using a gun reel engine. Oh my god. Okay. Wasn't expecting very strange. Yeah, I know I know. It's it's twenty dollars and it could be yours. Well said. Not delisted yet.

And here's the thing. Uh alternate history, Civil War stuff, even if it's uncomfortable, um, it's a thing. There's other media for it too. Uh, notably Abraham Lincoln, vampire hunter. I was thinking of the turtle. Yeah, no, no. I'm thinking of uh That the one alt history author that people know about. Is it the book The Guns of the South? Yeah. Okay, yeah, that's the time travelers arm the Confederacy with modern rifles so that they can turn the tides of the Civil War. Yeah. Uh so You know?

I I like to think of Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter because it did take place during the Civil War, right? It has it I would imagine. No, no, you know but I'm saying like it's like it Basically is like a redo of the war where now vampires are using the slaves as a food source. Like that's kinda crazy. Yeah, that's interesting. I suppose. Not time travel shenanigans to change the outcome of like, is anyone doing that for Germany?

Is anyone writing books about time travelers assisting Hitler? Isn't that like isn't that Man the High Cast No, it's not Man the High Castle. Isn't that Man the High Castle? Yeah, that's actually true, but that's alternate history, right? Is this not alternate history? No, no, no. That was a time traveler thing. The Guns of the South was like

Time travelers from the future got mad about the res you know, they were like, Oh man, if only we could change that civil war so they go back in time. I don't think is that what happens in that Amazon series? I mean it was a Philip K. Dick book before. I know, I know. It was a book first, sure. But like I'm just saying, like I didn't watch enough of it. Is that r does it is it revealed that They went.

They traveled their time to do that shit? I thought it was just like, Oh, this is the first time. Again, we're this is a s maybe this is all just a spoiler thing, but who gives a fuck about spoilers for Well, it's good that you give the warning though, because I think that could have not given the warning before, but I think it's more just like a weird quantum time fluctuation. Uh because there is an awareness of a timeline in which the the the allies won.

Got it. Is that the same thing then for all mankind? Are you aware of that Apple T V show? I'm aware of the Apple T V show, but I do not have Apple T V, so I'm not sure. Uh and then Uh, the only other thing I had here was a video game uh called Damnation. It's a steampunk shooter released in two thousand nine for the PS3 and three sixty, and it's a uh steampunk version of the Civil War. Huh.

I I I I guess uh I'm I guess I'm curious. There, you're not trying to rewrite history, you're just doing it in in steampunk form. Now, if we're just sort of going off of vibes here, um a game that I kind of want to try was like like a seventh generation FPS called uh I think it was Darkest of Days where you play as a Um, you p you play as a somebody that was supposed to die in the American Civil War.

But in the final moment some like inter-time corporation comes in and like kidnaps you and is like Uh we're we're b we're basically like the Well in that Loki show, like the authority to make sure the timelines stay correct and we need we need great soldiers, so we're we're recruiting you to go into different time periods and make sure that with our fancy technology that things go correctly. Um And just a cool concept.

And no one's doing uh like time travel where they take the fire away from man. You know, like we're we're w people aren't going back far enough, right? I would do that. Yeah, you know, just like d stop the fire. Like you don't no, you don't get that actually. And and they give it to lizards instead. And lizards are like, Holy shit I would give it to lizards. I think that like lizard people, whether they exist today or not, we need more of them. What do you mean weather? Mm.

Uh lizard people might not exist, but you know what does exist, Sean? The Essential Games list. That's right. And here's my vote for North and South. Uh first off, if we're doing essential titles list, it's just not it. North and South, I'm just not a fan of it. I let it be known. I don't hate it, but it just feels incorrect.

Uh, the actual game, very approachable. You'll notice that in this game, you don't have to, um, like uh divvy out or ration out your rice for the the winter. You don't have to um you know, uh swoon over uh another person's uh another captain's like princess and and marry families to create new dynasties. There's a certain level of strategy here and it's like just enough for anyone. Uh, it's very accessible this game.

Is it actually fun though? Uh I had a lot of fun playing it with Joe, like as we were figuring it out, but I think it was because like it was as we were figuring it out. I think once we figured it out, we didn't like feel an urge to be like, oh, and let's do let's jump into another game. Uh it was kinda like, All right, that was north and south and we moved on. So for that reason, I'm gonna leave it off the list. But I would also say that I think that the

uh I was calling them party games. They're actually barely even mini games. They're just kinda like action side scrolling parts of this game. Uh those are those could be a lot better than what they are. They are m i if anything, just little uh Little breaks between the uh board game component of this, which feels like the uh the largest and most important part of the game.

So it's a little too d um divided for me to put it on the Essential Games list, but I also don't think I'll be coming back to this one. Sean? Um yeah, I uh I think one of the things that really succinctly illustrates how I feel about strategy games on the NES.

Um was your comment about the Um I I really the the the amount of minutiae that these games have gotten into in the past uh f for what it can actually simulate and show you in a more uh a more visual and like gameplay wise uh ha has made me kind of like, oh I kinda hate strategy on the NEF. And I guess this isn't really strategy or this is baby strategy or strategy light. But like I said to top at the top of this episode, like this is the kind of this is the kind of strategy that I like.

Um now to counter another thing that you said though, like I do kind of like the whole uh gotta marry the princess. If there was a way to make sure that, like r uh Robert E. Lee or Stonewall Jackson had to get into like a diplomatic marriage with Sherman or something like that. Uh uh, that would be pretty interesting to me. Um, I know that that would be some pretty hardcore uh alternate history, but what else is there? Uh when you're getting into these kinds of games. Uh that said, um

I don't know if this is like essential kind of stuff. I I would definitely say if you thought yourself a strategy game enjoyer before all the games that we've played, but we're starting to second guess yourself. Try this game out. Uh it's goofy. It's uh it's weird. But I think it it scratches an itch that the Nobunaga likes have not. Um and it's definitely sa it sounds like at least a cool multiplayer game, uh judging by the fun that

uh Mike and Joe had without me. So uh not essential, but I recommend it. I will play every uh nineteen ninety one multiplayer game with you. Tomorrow. Okay. Yeah, we'll do it we'll get them all tomorrow. That's how we do the show, by the way, guys. We play every game for the year uh in one day and then we just wait. uh week after week to review them. So Joe and I played North and South That was twenty nineteen, right? Yeah, back in twenty nineteen.

Uh can't wait to get to Wario Woods, which we played in twenty twenty during COVID. No, this is all a joke. Uh the real story is that up next uh is East and West. Uh we're gonna take care of the other uh two things on the compass. Because nobody ever made those games. Is that like a Tupac vs Biggie sort of thing? That's exactly what happened. Yeah, it's kinda crazy, but you do uh you do and it's not like GTA or anything.