Ultimate Basketball. It's the ultimate. And welcome to Nostalgia, a chronological exploration of every NES game released in North America. I'm Mike. I'm Sean. And I'm Joe. And I think this might be the... the time that we've gotten the closest to the back of the box just being the title again.
It even it's so if you read the whole back of the box, the front of the box says ultimate basketball. Then the back says in big red letters, it's the ultimate. And then it follows it up with this is it. And like it is bolded. It's like you haven't said anything.
I feel like it's saying this is it. This is all we're going to write. That's it. It's just ultimate basketball. So when I hear ultimate basketball, you can interpret that two ways, right? This is either the... definitive version of basketball or it's like the extreme sports version of basketball and it's like it's basketball but with all new rules that make it even more exciting like ultimate frisbee
Right, right, right, exactly. And it's neither of those. It's actually just, it reveals itself to be just basketball. But is this not the last basketball game we get on the NES? That cannot be true. Yeah. Huh? I don't know that. Do you know that? I thought when I was researching this, I read this. But let me double check. Let me double check. Because if so, ultimate basketball, the final basketball.
Yeah, I mean, it could be true. Final Basketball would be pretty cool, too. Yeah, Final Basketball 7. Or just, you know, there was some in-universe reason for it to be like, this is the last tournament before they ban basketball. Can it really be ultimate basketball if it doesn't even have real teams? I mean, if the teams are better than normal teams. Oh, right. So if everybody's stats are 99? Yeah, like if you just had only Hall of Fame teams throughout, but...
I mean, you got some pretty cool team names here while we're waiting for Joe to confirm or deny. Yeah, I'm not sure I'm ever going to be able to get there. Yeah, it does. All right, so just on this random website. These aren't even in order properly. It's somebody's Facebook page. I just made this website real quick. Is it in alphabetical order, Joe? No. Okay. Yes, it is actually. But there's no like W or Z basketball. Wow. That's a good sign.
I'm glad we got there. The question's been answered. So before we get into basketball, I just wanted to go over, because I have a favorite team. I don't know if you guys have a favorite team, but I can guess you... But I can imagine you can guess my favorite team. The Detroit Unions? Yeah. Yes. Man, that was easy. The naming conventions.
Of all the team names here, they're just so strange. Yeah, I loved the Detroit Unions also, and I played as them. Yeah, you have to. Because you've got the Detroit Wolves, you've got the San Diego Dolphins. You've got the Dallas Fighters. You've got the Houston Comets.
Finally, we're somewhere that that kind of makes sense. You know, Houston space program stuff. But wait, Los Angeles Eagles. I don't know about that. New York powers. Is that like the powers that be? And then you got Detroit unions. It's like, oh, what do you think? Well, they got unions. They got trade unionists. It's such a sexy name, unions. Not the unionists, yeah. I love it. It's great. Love the fists. There's two fists.
Fist teams. The other one's the powers. Yeah, the New York should have had the opposite of the unions where it's like... Cannabis! When they put that inflatable rat in front of the buildings, you're like, these people don't support unions. These people are rats. It should have been that, the New York rats. The New York scabs, yeah.
I think you're right. Yeah, the New York Powers. I also like Powers That Be. There's something there. That's actually Beyond the Pale. You can't have that be a team name. Okay. Yeah. So moving on. Yeah, it's basketball and it controls like basketball. And there's really not too many surprises. But I guess the surprise, if there could be one in the control scheme, is that.
you have to press the shoot button twice to shoot the ball. So you have to press it once to kind of lift off the air, otherwise known as a jump. And then you have to press the button again to release the ball from your hands, otherwise known as a shot. And that will like, is there some science to that of like a sweet spot of like. If I'm further back, I need to jump higher to shoot closer to the basket? This is the way that modern basketball games work. You press the button to start the shot.
And then you try and get it close to the apex of the jump as possible. And that window shrinks or gets larger depending on how good of a basketball player that guy is. how far away from the net you are. So yeah, this feels like, of the basketball games we've played, this actually feels more modern than most. But there's no stealing button. Yeah, it's weird, right?
Yeah, I thought that they must have been missing that. No, you have to just hover by the guy for like two seconds, and then you'll steal the ball. And you could be good at that, but you know who's really good at that? The goddamn computer? The computer. The computer's really good at stealing the ball. The computer's actually really good at almost everything. And I don't know if you guys... Even on level one.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. But I don't know if you experienced this, but like even just throwing like an inbound throw after they score, like I was having one time I like legitimately.
using emulation, rewinding a few times, couldn't find a man open before they would steal the ball. And it was like, what the hell is going on with the computer? Yeah, that happened to me almost every time. They have... capabilities that you do not because I, you know, I did the exact same thing as you where I would be on the other end of this and be the, I would be defending the inbound and standing pretty much.
In the same place that the computer would on my end of the court. And they can just, like, pick it out of the air. And you can't pick it out of the air. Like, you can't intercept a pass. And, Joe, you're saying you just, like...
Had that happen often? I felt like... I mean, I thought... You guys are validating me a little bit here because I thought that I was just really bad at this game like I am with most basketball games or most of these sports games in general. But I was just like, what is... What am I not getting here where the computer can do all this stuff and I can't figure out how to do any of it? I felt like most of my experience was just the computer scoring in an animation.
Maybe ultimate basketball is just with AI and robots and computers. That's what's so ultimate about it. Right. Humans aren't part of ultimate basketball. Yeah. And on the other end, just trying to navigate around, like if you do keep possession of the ball out of your own court or your own half of the court, you'll just get charged with charging. Or sometimes they'll get pushing, but if you walk into somebody at all, which happens a lot in basketball, you will just get charged with charging.
And then there's a turnover. It's weird. That happened to you guys. There's plenty of ways to get violations. And after a certain amount of fouls, you'll just like... You'll lose your players, and apparently it's possible to lose enough of your players so that you can't even field a team of five. You'll only have three guys on the court. Which is the minimum, yeah.
Hey, they got that. That's a pretty obscure rule to get in the game. Well, because you do have a bench, too, where you can make substitutions, so you have to lose a healthy amount of players to get down to that. That's true. But yeah, I mean, like, you know, all that stuff, you know, helps reinforce at least this other idea of what ultimate basketball could be. But still, like...
Not that it needs the NBA license or anything to be a valid basketball game. Not that the computer needs to be a cakewalk because you have the two-player option. You have the ability to play with friends. So, like, technically, even if me and Joe...
Both sucked at the game enough. Well, we'd now be playing against each other who suck. And that's like most people's experience with NBA Jam is just two people who think they're really good at the game but have only touched it after a slice of pizza, you know, playing against each other. And they're like, oh, man, what a game that was, right?
But there's something like presentationally boring about ultimate basketball. Like again, like hitting home that maybe like the title just made me want more, but like it's, it's pretty just like, it's just standard basketball. You know, and I feel like we've had this problem with other basketball games, too, where it's just like everything is like missing the more modern element of like what basketball is in video game form.
I don't know. I guess it depends on what you mean by presentationally because I thought the presentation was like the one thing that I thought was like a little... I don't want to say better because I can't remember. too many of the other basketball games but that was like a higher point where it's a colorful bright game and it's also there's a lot of cut scenes that like break up the monotony a little bit but uh
But I do agree with you that I don't feel like I'm like, whoa, this is crazy video game basketball. Like gameplay wise, I'm feeling what you're what you're feeling. Yeah, because it's got the it's got the interactive. cutscenes for the dunks which are definitely a bit smoother than uh what's the other goddamn basketball game um double dribble double dribble that uh the like sort of slideshow that, that like was you dunking the ball. Um, and this is a more smooth animation of you and.
like contextually, if any defender is around you. And there's sort of like a quick time event aspect of it where there's a little bar and you have to get it into the bar. And it's actually like it, you know, it. Timing-wise, it's pretty easy, but sometimes I feel like it just eats your inputs and you can't actually dunk. And then if it's a three-point shot, you get another little thing going on there, but that's just an interruption to gameplay. There's no actual... interaction there.
What I find funny about this, and this is something that comes up a few times, but the manual tries to spin that as such a positive. Just sit back and relax. Yeah, yeah. It's like if you throw a free throw, sit back and enjoy. Like, no need to interact with the game. Sit back and enjoy.
Enjoy the show. Yeah, wow. Thanks. Sean, since you brought up Double Dribble, did you guys notice how... similar these games look though like i i know double dribble obviously came first and everything and ultimate best was probably feeding off of that but like Even though, like, the way the court looks and everything, like, the crowd, it's pretty crazy just how close they look. And I guess that's also, like, why did I prefer double dribble? It must have been a gameplay thing, right?
Yeah, I don't really know why you would deviate from that at this point. It's probably the clearest way to illustrate the field or the court. I don't know what could have been. I prefer this, at least in 2D games, this sort of left-right orientation, than sort of front court, back court.
vertical orientation, so I don't know what they could have done differently there. Oh, I just meant even, like, the actual... look of the games like the the sprites like almost look identical to double not even like just not even just the field of view or like the presentation aspect but like it
the bodies like are almost the same exact like sizing and structure. Like they don't, they have heads, but they don't have eyes, you know, like it's, it's very interesting observation, but also, you know, because you mentioned the. you know, the interactive components of the slam dunk. And if you're trying to fight that off, you're also can take part in it. There's like a little meter at the bottom there that you have to like within the.
animated cutscene of the dunk you have to press the button within that small glowing part of the meter in order to successfully land it or to block it and I think it's actually just it's probably like what I wanted maybe more from the game, right? Is like a little shot meter when you press the B button the first time to jump up in the air, like a little.
meter under you where like uh you know this is the sweet spot hit here and you're more likely like the basket might be like 90 chance to go in where it's like it's not zero if you don't hit it within there but it's just also not um not as good odds you know you're talking while taking just a regular shot not at any time right at any time just have that meter up If it's true, like what Sean was saying before, that kind of your jump itself is the meter.
Yeah, I think what you're describing, what you're describing is kind of like an easy mode or like accessibility feature in more modern games where it'll show you like on a little arc, almost kind of like. When you're kicking in Madden, it'll show a power meter like that. It's just a little different design. So what you're describing exists in basketball video games, but I don't think it has been discovered yet. Right, right, okay.
Yeah. Cause I think I prefer it be, if it, if it really is like a one-to-one, like this is your meter and it works that way. I don't mind it the way it is because it. It helps with immersion, you know, and it just feels a little less like, oh, I'm reading numbers or bars on a screen and more like, oh, I'm reading a basketball player. It's all in my head, but like it just feels better to me.
Not that it felt good to actually play it. I think the only part of this game that feels natural is that shooting mechanic, whereas everything else is kind of jank. Yeah, that's the one part where I have no notes. And there's a tournament mode, but it's really just playing a series of exhibition games. And since you probably don't have a...
favorite team of a list of these made-up teams, you just pick whichever one has the stats. You pick Detroit. Sure, pick Detroit because they have the best name. They do have individual stats, though, these teams, and you can see that in the substitution screen. It gives you, I think, their speed. I don't want to say it's strength, but ST? I think it's strength, yeah. Yeah.
Strength and then their defense as well. Stealth. Stealth. There you go. How likely they are to cast the invisible spell in the middle of a match. I'll say that speed is... I know that there's a lot of games that we played that, you know, the characters on screen ostensibly have these stats and sometimes we can't really notice, but speed at the very least is very noticeable in this game.
But there's not, like, you know, any, like, hidden challenge or, you know, secret boss or whatever. Not that there needs to be, but I'm just throwing out there. Like, the tournament really is just, like, there are some modes in... baseball games that i played growing up where it was like you have to like want to see like oh what would happen if the you know new york mets faced off against uh you know
the Yankees in the World Series, right? And you would do that because it was like you had familiarity with those two teams and the current rosters and everything. I don't know if it has the same kind of weight here when it's like...
you can do the same thing as just seven different exhibition matches with the same exact reward. Yeah, I guess in a game where you're not drawing off of... You're not drawing off of like... stuff that exists already you you're losing any kind of sort of tertiary value like you don't you can't do stuff like that so you have to rely on
How good is the basketball? This is something that I've, like, you know, like more modern, like with Blitz the League, like, I would play that game because, you know, Blitz couldn't do NFL anymore because they were too violent. But they were able to make a fun basketball game. I'm sorry, make a fun football game. Whereas here, there really isn't enough going on to say that the basketball is any better than any other.
basketball game that we've played on the NES so far. So, yeah, not much to work with. And the developers, ACOM, who also developed Omegom and... Remember Omegon? That was like the little kid who then turns into, yeah. American Sammy. Yes, yeah, American Sammy. Did he turn into like a caveman? You do. Yeah. Okay. Or the other way around.
No, no, it was the right, that's the right order. I don't know if the game refers to him as caveman, but you look like caveman. But he looks like, yeah. Yeah, I mean, technically just like, in the box art, he like loses his shirt, but in the game... He starts wearing a caveman attire with the one shoulder strap. It's like a very fashionable sweater vest.
Yeah, okay, sure. They also made Ashton Axe. Oh, yeah. That's a name. But they are going to go on to make a bunch of other games, but more specifically... Another of these ultimate games, it's called Ultimate Football, or it was released in North America as Football Fury on the Super Nintendo. And it's just the same thing, again, where it's like...
There's nothing really ultimate about it or whatever. And we do have ultimate football. Yeah, that's a thing. And probably why they changed the name. Right. So that's a thing. But like it. Again, made-up conferences, the United States Football Conference, and the American All-Star Football Conference. So the USFC and the AAFC. Who cares? Yeah, that's the thing.
It's a thing. Sure. But like, you know, if it takes place, you know, I was going to say the future, but since we were talking about cavemen a second ago, if you were having caveman football. Now, all of a sudden, there's a motif to work behind. There's some funny things I could imagine happening that wouldn't happen in a normal football game.
I don't understand the appeal, and I know everything's new back then in video games, but I don't think I understand the appeal, and obviously I've been arguing this most of the episode, of just... playing the same kind of basketball game as the NBA offers, but without the NBA. And we'll find out if my co-hosts agree on the Essential Games list.
So yeah, as I said, not essential for me. It's not like the worst game or whatever. I really didn't enjoy playing against the computer, but I don't think I would like seek out playing this with a friend either. So I think that says something about the game. What about you, Sean? Yeah, I think that it does kind of offer a step forward on certain things.
It's not very well done, so we didn't enjoy playing it, but I can see where they're going with a couple things in terms of presentation, trying to... make dunks more fun i feel like that's that's one of the things that uh basketball games are are always trying to make a focus it's like dunking is cool it should feel cool to do um and Yeah, a lot of this is just a lack of polish. I think the ingredients are correct, but the cooking time is off, so not essential. Joe.
Yeah, these games never really stand out particularly to me. Sports games, even basketball games in particular, I'm just not very good at. They're not my thing really. But this one really did to me feel more like a chore than some of the ones in the past.
I did feel like I was just getting my ass kicked by the computer for, you know, time after time. And I don't know, I guess it... I don't know what about it specifically feels so much worse than other basketball games, but this one really just like, I just thought this was... was a big step backwards from what I can remember of previous ones. So I'm also going to say not essential. And one thing I wanted to bring up, which adds to my non-essential thing, not to...
get super into the weeds with the menu like we sometimes do. But the selecting your team, I'm surprised this didn't come up because of our history on this podcast, but you select your team. And there's a circle of teams with one in the middle. But instead of pointing in the direction that you want to move the cursor, you hit left to go to the next one, which is not necessarily the one to the left or the right.
It's just like with the next one on their list. So it just goes in a random order by hitting left or right. And I guess if you really think about it, you can see what they're going for. Not intuitive at all. If I'm in the middle and I want to go to one directly above, I should just be able to hit up to go up. Not left to go up. What game was that again? It was like Sesame Street or something. Yeah, I guess this has a little bit more to it than Sesame Street.
Yeah, but this one I thought was worse than the Sesame Street one. Sesame Street had a real problem. Sesame Street at least is like, okay, there's only one way to go. No worries about it. This one I'm like... I'm like, how am I getting here from there? I spent 25 minutes trying. No, I'm just kidding. You're not remembering correctly. You have one way to go until you have to go the other way. It makes it so that any single button moves it one.
down the list, but then when you get to the bottom of the list, then it starts to invert, and you climb back up. Yeah, no, I remember, and yes, that, I don't know why it loops, doesn't loop back around, but I guess for a little kid, well, let's get back into this. Let's open this back up for a little kid. I get that. Just like hit the button to go to the next one. And once you're at the end, you're going to start going back. Easy. Simple. Outro Music Cue the music.