Native Land Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with Reason Choice Media.
Well come, Welcome, Well come, well come, welcome, Welcome.
So, as you all know, the election is right around the corner, and we are talking today about where we should go and how we grow and build audience and build coalition around showing up the Native Land Pod and welcoming more people home. So today we're going to dive right into it.
Welcome home, y'all.
I am Angela Raie with Tiffany Cross and Andrew gillim. Y'all, we got a lot to talk about around this, and probably it might may end up in a fierce debate. Sometimes we end up in debate. So my question for you all is you know we have Andrew is not here or did we lose him for what?
Are you okay? So part of our challenge here on Native Land is that Andrew.
Now he's talking on you. Andrew, get off.
Of this is what happened. I just want y'all to know this is ongoing. I'm pretty sure he did it on purpose.
I think at this dabra bish.
So my question for you you know what I want to go to first, Andrew, This is a great question for you. You are one of the greatest campaigners I've ever seen, and so as we build a campaign, build a ground game for our podcast where we are hoping to engage people beyond just listeners, but really being a part of our home, being a part of native Land, being a part of this safe space, and engaging politically, I think overall, we really would desire to see people
show up participation overall in the political process. What is the best way to shore up not just support for the podcast and grow the audience, but to grow that base of concerned citizens that are engaged, that participate, that participate on the show, send in their questions, et cetera, et cetera. What do you think is the best way for us to do that?
Well, thank you for the question, Executive producer Rye. And in seriousness, I would just say, I don't assume that they are not already extremely engaged, responsive and involved in the show, because I can't tell y'all how many folks did. I mean, you know what, you see it too when we're out moving and then when I think about what these individuals do in their real.
Lives, they're like carrying the you know, they're carrying the globe.
So I think one, I don't know how we rate this or how we rank it or get a determination of it. I would be willing to bet we probably have amongst our listeners some of the most responsive, active,
engaged in owning like ownership sort of feeling. So I think that's probably one of our assets when I think about growth for us, I think white liberals want to find and probably would find home in this show, if for no other reason, to be the fly on the wall who then gets to go back in their circles of diversity where that exists, or we're in there very non diverse circles and talk with some believed authority or perceived or heard or listened into perspective about what black
folks who are interested in culture and politics are thinking doing and by way of sort of keeping a pulse on the community. And I don't I'm not offended by that.
I actually invite I like that that happens. In fact, I would say since we aired the first question we got from a white viewer, brother from I mean, young man from Atlanta, we've now seen more white viewers submit questions because they're you know, maybe they made the assumption that this couldn't be a home for them and that they were to you know, just eavesdrop.
But I think by doing that.
And invited them in, and I just think there's a huge growth opportunity amongst white liberals who want to follow the right instruction, which is, don't assume what I think, don't you know, take don't assume we see this thing the same way, have a seat, take a listen, and if there's something growth or gain, you give them that. Cool.
Well, I think Angela is asking the question because a part of it is, you know, growing our audience. So I hear you, Andrew, I'm definitely a fan. I think you know, we all probably on some level take to Fred Hampton approach to coalition building. I think though, it is a difference between campaigning and growing an audience. And they're cousins not sisters, right, There is definitely a vent
diagram where these things overlap. Like I think with a campaign, there's a call to action, we want you to vote on this day for this issue. I think when it comes to growing an audience, we're saying we want you to come back every week with all the things that are pulling at your attention. We are offering you something
so valuable. We're asking for your time to come back every week after week after week and not only do that, but tell other people to come back week after week and like and review and share our content and all that. So I think when it comes to that brand of things, we'd be interested in hearing from you guys at home where you'd like to see us, because the thing is, we may pop up in places that you don't always
like and that you don't always agree with. And I think this is where there are points of disagreement among the three of us. And I do want to point out we read y'all comments. We you know, see all the things y'all are saying, and I appreciate that. The audience Angela Andrew, I'll share with you guys that they really love the disagreement among the three of us because
we never get to have nuanced anywhere else. You know, if we were all on a cable news panel, all three of us will mostly agree and that would be that. But we are so much more complicated than that, you know, we have so many more like diversity of opinion among us and different life experience and different professional experience. So I really appreciate that we offer that space for you all at home, the same way that we allow for each other. So I think are maybe our points of
disagreement right here. When we talked about convincing last week, and I'm saying I'm not a convincer, I don't necessarily Angela. You correct me if I'm wrong, But I know I don't want to go on Fox News. I don't find that to be a good use of my time. I think what's valuable to me is telling people who are receptive and align, like, let's build that audience first. I'm not going to the dissenters first. I'm going to the people who agree first, and let's have a ground swelling there.
I don't know that I necessarily want to sit with people routinely who I have an ideological difference with. But you you operate in a lot of spaces.
So what are your thoughts about where we should go, what we should do.
You know what I like about this pod, this mini pod for us, is it's actually very instructive to other podcasts who may be trying to wrestle with the same thing. Like you know, it feels like you kind of hit a plateau with your audience. It's the same people are coming back every week. We're not talking about those folks who already in the know. They may be what they call political junkies or politicals, they're already into this type
of content. And so how do you reach people who maybe to your your last point tip, the two points you raised were receptive and aligned. There are folks who in order to be receptive and aligned, they first have to know about it. And I think there's still a really large gulf of folks who don't know about it. When even in my professional development program, when some of the young people come in, they don't know about the podcast yet. And so to me, some of the things
that you do in those moments. Okay, now, I think Andrew actually might be frozen.
Neil.
I thought he was bound his head in prayer, or maybe he was sleep taking a nap until he remarks again. But I think the thing that I was gonna say was, I think that we deserve, we owe ourselves a tour, especially right now we are saying how much democracy is on the line and all that's at stake, Well, how are we demonstrating all that's at stake if we're just in the studio every week. So what happens if we,
you know, hit the pavement. We're at FAMU and we're at spill House Homecoming, and we're in Detroit, and we're in Philly or you know, all of these places that we're currently finalizing the dates for. And then who do we show up with as a collaboration because they are the folks that you already listen to, whether they're business leaders or other podcasts or elected officials that you really respect.
What should we do in that respect? And I think there the world to me is really open because I don't know how we grow by talking in an echo chamber. I've never been interested in that. It's more exciting to me to hear, Like That's what I actually love about our disagreements too. I get mad that we don't all agree, but also I appreciate that we don't all agree. Yeah, because their perspectives and lived experiences that y'all have that
I don't. I think, to me, what makes the idea of getting out of the studio dynamic to me is the opportunity to hear from perspectives we would never hear if we don't, you know, And it's beyond your Thanksgiving dinner table or your Christmas you know, dinner table. You're talking to people who you may not hear from. They would never even have the opportunity to share space with you.
That to me a what if Sean Hannity invites us to co host a podcast with him? Just one, just one day, not like ongoing, but like, let's do this one time.
I'm open to that. And the reason I'm open to that is because I think that I believe people can be convinced. As dumb as that may be, as altruistic, I.
Think people can be convinced. Do you think Sean Hannity viewers can be convinced.
I'm not sure because I don't know who his viewers are. I think that his viewership may be large and diverse. I think there are some people that watch the show to see what he's spewing, just so they can go back to the people that I know that watch Fox.
Because I don't.
I don't talk to a lo out of MAGA voters. Can you imagine why not? I don't really talk to them. But the folks who I know who watch Fox are like, I just want to hear what the right is saying today. So I think there are some of those folks that could be convinced to be like, oh, I didn't know that Tiff and Andrew and Angela had a podcast. Let me check it out at least once. I think that's a possibility, and I also think that it would make
for interesting content. Our viewers are used to us dissenting, but not dissenting on things that move black people forward, like they don't. They're not used to us debating the end goal of moving us forward. They're used to us debating how we move forward. And I think having a conversation with someone who's just like, forget y'all, I don't care if you move forward or not drownbish is something completely different.
Well, I want to tell you I do know the Sean Hannity viewers, because I think any of us who have ever worked in television, you look at the ratings, you look at you know, Nielsen, and look at the breakdown of the demographics, and their viewers are not actually very diverse. And the people who are watching just out
of curiosity, you not comprise. I think I don't know it on top of my head, so I'd hate to give it, but I think it's something like ninety three percent white and conservative, but I don't you know, you guys can fact check me on that. But when you look at the numbers of who is actually watching, it is not a very diverse coalition. So honestly, my perspective is I don't want to spend my time talking to those people. I would rather talk to people who feel
a bit lost in politics. You know, like maybe they're not political junkies, but they have curiosity about it, and maybe they feel like everyone kind of talks over their head, maybe people are just talking at them, they don't feel included in the conversation. Like, those are the people I'd
rather talk to. I like that intersection of people who can have a passionate debate about you know, Kendrick Lamar and j Cole and Drake, and also have a passionate debate about our foreign policy and also have a passionate debate about political and economic systems, and also have a passionate debate about brown v Board and did it? So, you know, and I think there are enough people out there. I know, when I get in a cab, taxi drivers have opinions. You know, at the barbershop, folks have opinions
in the group chats. Folks have opinions. People watching a basketball game have opinions. I want those people to start tuning in. I don't necessarily want to go after Sean Hannity viewers or dissenters first, you know, we grow a coalition of people who are, you know, somewhat receptive to our message, then I would look at outsiders. But right now I'd rather go after people who are receptive to us. That would be my thought. Andrew, are you frozen or what is going on over there?
No, I'm listening.
I'm genuinely listening to you all and trying to I was your first set of comments after I mentioned.
Sort of liberal whites. I thought I may have misunderstood the question.
So I'll just I'll say again, and maybe a little hopefully clear that I don't think we ought to do anything stylistically different, show up as individuals who we are not repping perspectives that are not ours. I think the sauce is right. I think, however, that there are communities who ideologically agree with us, but may not share our skin color or lived experience, who are authentically and genuinely curious.
About and want to do the right things about learning more.
During the in the wake of of sort of the summer of the Awakening, during COVID, after obviously the the murder of George Floyd, you had a lot of black thought leaders saying I'm not here to teach you, is not my job to I don't take responsibility for your education on this.
You do the work.
And my problem with that lot of thinking was I was thinking, god Ley, well do where does that begin? Well, then they start reading our books and start showing up at more of our lectures and so on and so forth. But if you genuinely just want to know folks better, and maybe you're in a place where you don't get to interact with a lot of us, there's not a lot of us there, maybe not a lot of us at your job or where you worship.
Where would folks be able to tune in?
And I just my thoughts around an area of growth is in a white liberal space, not for politics, not because I'm running.
For office, but because I think that there is a sincere, genuine interest and allyship potential. And I think I issue is just them getting to know it, getting to hear it. I don't think we have I.
Think we show up as who we are, bring who we are and knowing that we were out here and and and I think that's supposed to take care of itself. But it's not for politics, it's not for any other reason.
Then I think it's a growth.
I don't know. I don't know what Andrew is over there doing.
I'm for y'all, my computer is slow, so you're showing up something.
Oh he is delayed. Yeah, yeah, he's having I think it's probably the storm.
Dang, even in Tally.
Okay, yeah, this is I'm sorry, it's I know it's frustrating for y'all, and it's doubly frustrating for me. Uh the problem, And I think you're probably right it is. It's it's all.
I mean, it's ominous looking outside.
Uh so it could be the weather that's.
Changing on on on my.
Side, but I will I will say there are in San Francisco and Orange County, in everywhere America, these clubs, in organizations that meet week to week hundreds of folks who are interested in politics, culture, mostly all white audiences, who we wouldn't be necessarily a fight with over what their positions may be on This is at in the third, but I guarantee you they would be learning immensely from where we stand and where each of us individually view things,
and I would submit we would be in for a learning on how it is they see the world. I talked about the white Lotus incident where I listened to this white lady say, oh, you got to be careful, And even if we don't have sympathy for that, it doesn't hurt to hear it. So you at least have some sense of where some other people may be coming from in that way and responding. We might respond with the right kind of tactics and words and tools that they can then hear us. So a homecoming is going
to be great. I love the HBCU homecoming. And in addition to that, on ninety second and why a pomp a North Palm Beach club that's what it's called, that
meets every other week or once a month. Those are also very very rich, well literally rich, but also rich environments where I think we would go and it wouldn't necessarily be a hostile, but it certainly would be a learning because, as you said, we don't want to speak to the It shouldn't be about necessarily talking to the choir every week, although yeah, the choir needs a lift every week too, probably, But we also have acquired that's a lot larger than I think we've conceived of, and
there are a lot of ways to get to them so that they know we exist.
I mean, I think that's kind of my point, because I got to be honest. I'm not necessarily like, please, white liberals come listen to us. You know, it's like, yeah, everybody's welcome. But I would think, you know, by twenty forty four, there will be no racial majority. I think, you know, the API community fast is growing demographic out there. Welcome home, y'all. Latino community for the first time, ellips, black folks in terms of eligible voters, not registered voters,
Welcome home, y'all. The Indigenous community, who rarely has a platform or a voice, Welcome home y'all. You know, Arab voices, Muslim voices, you know, who don't get a lot of reception or attention, Welcome home, y'all. So I would welcome some coalitions of people to this platform. I mean, that's definitely a way to grow audiences. But also my people, you know, there are so many types of black folks across this country who feel ignored, unheard, discarded, and disregarded.
I want those folks to be aware. I don't think our numbers are large enough yet that we have to be so eager to go outside the community and beg for listeners. Although we welcome everybody, but I would love for us to tap in to young folks, you know, who are developing their worldview, our peers who don't have a place to go, you know, people who find legacy media tired and boring and does not reflecting their voices.
So look, I think, yeah, we might land in some spaces that some of y'all don't agree with, And there are platforms that some of y'all, you know, might find they all might disagree with. Then y'all don't like the things that are said on some of these platforms, but you might see us on some of these platforms, and I don't I just don't want us in gaining new followers. I don't want our existing audience to think that we
are taking a different direction or abandoning them. We're gonna stay consistent, but we might pop up some places to welcome home new folks, if that makes sense exactly.
I was just gonna say, part of the way we welcome home new folks is to ensure that they even know that we exist, and that means, you know, making democracy and politics, democratizing access to processes, and making sure that folks feel comfortable engaging. So that may mean, you know,
we become a little more pedestrian. We collab with some folks that have an affinity towards making their material their podcast very accessible to their listenership, the folks who view them, etc. Andrew, I know you were about to say something.
I just wanted to quickly say, what power is.
My thinking around building audience is also that we have to get laws, systems, structures changed, and how do we educate and equit people with what it is that they need. And by the way, the lessons on how we do that don't need to necessarily change because of the complexion of the persons who is on the listening side. They just need to know and also need to hear the best ways in which we can go about getting the change that we want. Nobody wants to talk into the ether.
I want to see systems leveled in some cases and in other cases reimagined, and in other cases built because nobody ever considered that before. And unfortunately, at least where I live in Florida, where black folks are eleven percent of the population, we can't do that by ourselves exactly.
And that's the point, right, Like we're what we're talking about is not abandoning our base, is talking about growing our base, constituency building, coalition building, and growing audience. So this has been great. Hopefully we can offer some more tactics. TIF if you have a tactic to leave folks with who are growing their own podcast listenerships or campaigning or you know, whatever else they're doing out there to grow, what would you offer one tactic?
I always offer that Fred Hamton approach. I think, you know, coalition building. A lot of people when on my show on when I have to show on MSNBC, people say why are you including them? They're white adjacent or why you including them and like focus on us, and I just disagree with that, Like I love black folks, don't like I guess so tired of people trying to you know,
who suggest that about any of us. You are listening to three people every week who passionately love black folks and we all live in service to equality and liberation
of black people, because when that happens, everybody wins. But we've always had allies in this fight in America, and those allies look like Latino people, look like members from the Api community, look like members from the Indigenous community, look like members from the white folks from white communities, look like poor white populations, look like Arab voices and Muslim voices and all the things that I referenced earlier. So my tactic is that sometimes our values aligned where
our skin color does not. And you know we I just don't want to take the oppressor's tools and start hating each other and looking if you got this, then that means my community isn't getting that, and we fighting over breadcrumbs while the wealthy white men are looking at us, laughing and dabbing the corners that are my So my tactic is, let's not let them weaponize our communities against each other.
And then, Andrew, when you think about a tactic, a single tactic that folks who are growing an audience or growing a base, struggling with coalition building, what was the tactic you would offer them?
One? I just say, define yourself first so that you don't get out there not knowing who you are, and then you're building an audience and recontorting yourself to then contain that audience based off of where you say, say what you want to say, do what you want to do, move the way you want to move.
And I promise you.
There's an audience out there who will find you. And I think if I were talking about trying to find common cause, would I would team up with folks who have the kind of audience and the following with whom you would like to then grow as a part of your constituency. And even if y'all aren't philosophically exact that maybe have a rich enough conversation that folks are like, man, I'd actually like to come back and hear a little
bit more than that. And I'm going to say this selfishly for in Florida, where you know, I take exception with the issue that black folks and brown folks have found largely common cause because that hasn't been as a local or a person who's going to state righte my own experience. So I'd love to see us do you know, a real conversation across the table with folks with the Latino community as ranging as it is to talk about where exactly are we find in common calls?
Because the trends aren't looking good here.
I am so to restate Andrew's suggestions were define yourself first and then to find common cause. Tiff said coalition build in so many words, and just so y'all clear. If y'all have not read her book, you need too.
She's consistent and if you didn't know about The Beat, which is an amazing publication that she put out online out of her own money when she needed to as well, she was very consistent about us becoming the rising majority that we know we can be one that is helpful in lifting communities of color rit large. My suggestion would be to not be, to not be, to be unafraid
to think outside of the box. Sometimes what happens when things get stagnant, whether we're talking about relationships, or we're talking about schools, or we're talking about campaigns or what have you, people get very comfortable and safe with their approaches. This thing is always work, So why do we change it?
Or we change it because we need to grow. And sometimes whatever you change may not result in a change that you like immediately, but it will eventually, and so don't be afraid to grow, don't be afraid to try something new, and don't shut people down automatically. Here their whole idea before you get to know. Sometimes there's a guest on the other side of that. No, So that is our show for today. This is Native Lampod. It's
a mini pod. We hope you tune into all of our mini pods and we'd love to hear from you, our listeners, ore NLP fam on what you think we need to do to continue not only to grow audience, but to grow folks who are civically engaged in their communities. And overall, thanks so much. Welcome home, y'all. Native Lampod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with Reason Choice Media.
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