Native Lampod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with Reason Choice Media.
Welcome home, y'all.
It is another edition of mini pods with Native Lampod.
I am Angela.
Right. We are starting this mini pod with a question we get all the time.
Folks are like, I do not like this two party system. What's up with a third party? We hear about it all the time. We have a listener's question. We're going to go to that right.
Now, Miss Layla, and I am a twenty three year old politic organizer here in Tennessee. I had a question about convincing people to participate in our political system. I'm realizing as I try to convince people or talk to people just about what their views are, more and more
that they are just disaffected with it all. And with the success of campaigns like the Uncommitted campaign in Michigan had such little resources and they were able to get some pretty quick policy movement, We're seeing that maybe hacking the system is sometimes more effective than participating in the way that we are all used to. Lots of people are turning to third parties. Our two parties, major two parties right now in the country are more beholden to
corporations and their bottom dollar than their constituents. And it's really hard to ask people to vote for the lesser of two evils every single time for those of us who have our boots on the ground. So can we ever escape this two party system? Can we hack the system? Or are your guys' views?
I love this question?
Love it. Can you say Angela about because you got this question as south by Southwest? Do you want to tell that story? Because I thought it was such an interesting question from an interesting person. If you want to tell it.
Yeah, I want to first think, Layla, we were glad that you felt comfortable enough to raise this question. I think people, especially in an election year, get terrified about people raising anything like this because they're like, oh my god, you're trying to suppress votes, You're trying to take votes away from this candidate or that candidate.
And I don't think it's that at all.
Even her referencing of the uncommitted approach, which was in my home state of Washington and our election, of course, was just this past Tuesday. I don't know when this manybody I was going to air, but it was what today, it was March twelfth, is when the election was in Washington State and there were tens of thousands of people
who voted uncommitted there. Of course, in Michigan, we saw that when you're in a two party system, it is really hard to feel like you're a part of a representative democracy because you're forced to find yourself smushed and contorted into a box that you may or may not always fit in. There were actually two questions on the podcast Leonard and I did with Vox Media at south By Southwest. One was about is this actually a democracy?
We're telling people to go out and save this democracy, but is it really a democracy when there's only two parties? Third party, Libertarian Party? You know, what does it really mean to be independent where you don't really see yourself represented? And then another gentleman, the King Chris Smalls, who is an incredible on the ground organizer. He's most known for organizing Amazon employees to ensure their ultimate protections.
Overwhelmingly black and brown.
People working in the warehouses in Amazon and not seeing themselves reflected in that trillionaire role that Jeff Bezos is now in. And so he also raised some third party questions and so I just I want to frame it in that way.
I definitely want y'all to weigh in.
I think that I have this innate fascination with what it means to have more representation across all kinds of lines. I talked about at that panel on the other side of apartheid being dismantled in South Africa, my dad getting this poster from someone who's like a godfather, Mee Tony Orange, May he rest in power and peace.
And there were all of these.
Parties like by Labor, by soccer, by you know, conservatives, I mean all of the libertarians, all of these varying wings, like you found your political niche. It really was like a niche democracy, democratic system, and still the ANC would overwhelmingly win. But like just the fact that you could see yourself represented up until the election, it empowered more people to vote. And I think if ultimately our goal
is to get everyone involved. Right. We were talking earlier in our side chat about this video from Louisiana where folks are so frustrated. There's so many not just of us, but people periods sat out of that election. Do you really feel more heard by sitting out and protesting with your vote? Tell me how that speaks up for your interests at all, because now you' silenced yourself, right, You're like, forget voter suppression.
I'm just gonna supress myself. I don't get that.
And so I do want to figure out what it looks like for us to journey towards a more representative, diverse system.
So I do love this question.
I love the question and shout out to Chris Malas who unionized Amazon workers, which is no small feat. So shout out to him, and he thought he and Angela's exchange on that panel was beautiful. So I want to get to the meat of the viewers question and say, yes, you can have third party candidates. Unfortunately, third parties are so seduced by the presidential election where it is harder
to penetrate the system that we have. For one, you have to consider your donor base, so where money flows into and where they come from, and not a lot will go to third party candidates because at that level, most people do not see a pathway to presidency, especially given the way the primaries the mis set up. Unless there is a jungle primary, third parties are not often on the ballocks. You have to be registered as a
Republican or Democrat. And if you're a registered Democrat and you want to vote for someone who is in a different party, then you don't have that option unless it's a jungle primary, which means everybody can vote for everybody, right. So that's something to consider. But the support for this is increasing. In October of last year, Gallup Poll did some really interesting research and sixty three percent of Americans, regardless of what side of the aisle they vote on,
they supported a third party. Which makes sense because you consider how many people are politically homeless when you come to presidential elections. We're old enough to remember these people often are spoilers, they are a problems. So we had people like Ross Pureau run I think that was in
nineteen ninety two when he ran. We had people like Ralph Nader, and so there's animosity that these people, you know, detract votes and give one party or another favorable Here's where third party candidates have a route which I think can actually make waves. You can run in a state legislature as a third party. You can run perhaps as a member of Congress in a third party. In twenty twenty two, forty three percent of people who ran in
state legislative race were uncontested. What that means is there was literally only one party running, so they just had a clear path to it. If you're somebody who has these very strong beliefs and no party aligns with you, run in your state legislature and that's where you can ascend to power. So many former state legislators go on to become members of Congress. Former President Barack Obama was a state legislator before he ascended to the presidency of
the United States. So there is a path for you, but it takes work. So you have to walk before you crawl. You got to build brick by brick, and it's a heavy lift. But I say, given the political parties we see right now, let's lift heavy.
Okay, we'll be back right after this break.
You know, I agree with a lot of Whatsman said we should clarify first and foremost that we are not a two party only system. We are a manifold party. There are many parties that show up on my ballot. I can tell you that preference primaries are for the purpose of where you have multiple people running to represent their party. You then have to make a choice to whittle that down to a single person who will be
representing that party. In this country, however, we do have two major parties, which takes up the bullworth of resources, money, attention time, And then there are third there are outside parties who then create a set of rules. Let's take the presidency for example, there's the Presidential Commission on Debates who then put in place a set of rules that then you must meet this criteria, this criteria, or this criteria or and this criteria in order to appear on
a nationally televised debate stage. If you are not on a nationally televised debate stage, you are likely not going to be considered much in the conversation because the overwhelming majority of Americans will not know you exist at all. When when I ran for governor, I competed in the Democratic primary to be our party's nominee. But there were several other candidates on the November ballot who were not a Democrat or didn't run for the Democratic nomination, but
they were given consideration on the ballot. So, to keep it honest, we are not a two party We are not a two party exclusive only system. We have a multiple party system representative of a democracy and in other countries that have multiple party systems that are thriving, what you end up with. Take Great Britain, for instance, you oftentimes see a prime minister producer who is equivalent in this country for life of a better reference as president
of that country, but prime minister. And because they have a healthy system of multiple parties, you often find that they end up producing compromised governments. And what that term basically means is that unlike in this country you produce a democratic president or a Republican president per se, and those countries you produce a president a prime minister who is only prime minister because they had to coddle together a number of parties in order to create the majority.
And if they lose the support of any significant faction of that system that they have pulled together, they are no longer prime minister and they got a call for another election. We saw that actually happen play out during these over these last several years, where Great Britain's gone through three or four different prime ministers and very short order. One of them only lasted a week, I think, and then they had to bring in someone that's right right.
And here in the United States, so very dynamic and elastic systems that exist around the world that can produce a form of leadership and a form of governing. And they are enduring systems, by the way, in this country, however, and I wish I could just chalk it up to they're not being enough money to support a third party. I have not drawn the conclusion. That is not the conclusion I draw as to why they have not been
viable here. Ross Perot didn't need anybody else's money, build money from his own pocket and compete it at every level. He only just had enough support to make it through the presidential debate commissions criteria at that time to be seen.
I don't agree you can do that now legally, right and so fun.
No, don't you have a limit?
Isn't there a limit?
Right? In order to finance here the.
Commission and to clear the commission, I think now you have to have a certain of dollars from a certain number of donors.
That's largely white and males.
To me, it makes sense that some people are behind you if you're running for president of the United States and you want to compete for my time and attention and everybody else is to become president of the United if you're just self funding, never believed in that, I just don't think you should. You haven't shown me that there's a constituency that believes anything that you believe enough
to give you five dollars, two dollars, one dollar. I love that the request is not by an amount of money, but by a number of people, and a democratic society is showing a critical mask of folks are like with you, even if it is not enough to compete with the major two party system. But we do have avenues, two diverse ideas. But in this country, for whatever reason, y'all, we have settled, you know, largely behind this sort of
two party system as a way to negotiate power. But there are already ways in which we can penetrate the process through through a part in an organization outside of the two party system. And I think Tiffany's suggestion around why don't we start local, why don't we start within a state, is a really good example of how we start to build some will for this thing to actually work, because right now, buy and large, most people just don't
think it work because they've never seen it work. But what if we started in one city or a collection of cities, and then those collections didn't produce House and Senate representatives at the state level. And then we thought we could grow this thing and then compete for a state. There are ways to do it, y'all. We got to be willing to put into work.
Though.
You know the thing that I think is so interesting, You said, what if we started? I would say, what if we just built upon the successes that are already there. I think about Fanny Louhammer, who co created, co founded the Mississippi Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party. She was phenomenal. She literally changed the direction of this country and helped to push voting rights across the finish line. They're sole objective with that party was to challenge the Democrat Democratic Party's
efforts on civic participation. So sometimes there are parties created to do certain things. I also, I'm not admiring them. I'm admiring their organization. But when you look at that Affordable Care Act. On the other side of the Affordable Care Act, the Tea Party Caucus was stood up. The Tea Party Caucus has now morphed into the Freedom Caucus. But they're sole purpose of existence, Well, it was supposed
to be just fiscal conservativism. But that's not all their sole purpose of well, yes, but their sole purpose is to make the Republican Party more conservative. I maintain that we could have a black party that makes the Democratic Party more beholden to black interests.
Maybe we broaden it.
Reverend Jackson used to talk about the Rainbow Coalition that wasn't by accident. I just recently posted a nine minute speech from his Democratic National Convention speech that Roland posted. Its extremely brilliant. He is selling us on the idea that we should actually listen to, that we're stronger together, and this Rainbow Coalition can be responsible for raising up a new America, you know, a more perfect union. That is what this is all about. So sometimes the party system,
to your point, Andrew's a good one. It's a two party majority, two majority party system. But that's not the only parties. And there is still space for us to do the very thing we need to get done so that our folks aren't feeling discounted and disenchanted with the process, uninspired if they see somebody who's finally standing up saying the things they need to hear, making the demands they want to see happen. Maybe that's what the purpose of the party. Maybe it's more of a caucus vibe.
Well, I was just gonna say, because the difference between Vanny Lou Hamer and the Tea Party is the Tea Party they were already elected officials who we were.
They joined the ELECTI officials largely joined.
So the Tea Party existed in it because I only really heard about them in Congress.
So the people created them, so I.
Didn't know that the Tea part already was established.
And then they put forth they like almost like they put forth a slates.
And then members of Congress adopted it.
So they the Tea Party was like, this is our values, and people were like, cool, I rock with those values. They were then elected and then they were the Tea Party in Congress, later becoming the Freedom Cockers.
But they were Republicans though Republicans, right.
Yeah, so they were the caucus of that party.
I would also say there were people in the foundation of the Tea Party movement who were not political in the first place. They got engineer. Again, this is the advent came under Barack Obama's administration.
So you had a very.
A shared fear of a lot of people coming together trying to figure out how they were going to negotiate power. They did produce candidates, but they also endorsed candidates who had already been elected before. And they had candidates, they had office holders who then defected into the Tea Party coalition because they saw where the heat was on the Republican side.
Okay, and it was based on conceding to the demand.
They ceded to the demands.
They take their two paths we've laid out then for a third party, you know that. I think that's the best answer. And unless Andrew you had something something.
Else, just to just to underscore the power of negotiating room. And that's what Angela hit on with and low Hamer as well. We were like, look, we ain't gonna be seen at all in the Republican Party. We know that it doesn't even make sense to put forth that threat because we're not demonstrable enough here to make a difference. But in a now reformed, new looking Democratic Party which lost all its you know, white Southern support and black folks then got the right to vote, and we're now
here negotiating. We're a different voice now because we can withhold support, we can make that choice not to give you our votes in for Fannie Lou Hamer. It was in the nominating process, just like when we saw folks in Michigan withhold their divorce, their support for Biden. It was in the nominating processes where they made the difference and call for you know, uh, recognition of all of us who make this party work.
Yes, shout out.
To Fanny Lou Hammer, angela, this women's history, this black women's history. I love that you brought her up, though, because I didn't even make that connection to her in the third party. But that is frime example. Read about her. That's our little mini call to action. If you don't know, if you are out here part of one of these leaderless movements and try to organize, read about what people have done before you, because even if you don't agree with that, you can learn something from it.
And it's just funny. It's more profound because it reminds us that nothing ever said or done is new. Yeah, it's never that there are.
All right, Nick knows we gotta go, We we do gotta go, but we'll We'll end this on a Fanny Litu Hammer quote, and she says, none of us are free until all of us are free, and that's what we got to remember.
So shout out to freedom. And I'm not talking about the Freedom Caucus, but shout out to freedom. And may we all get a little closer to what we really want in this political process by making sure that we see ourselves reflected by carving.
Out our own path.
Welcome out out to y'all, great answers, Thank you Leila for your question.
Welcome home y'all, Thanks for listening. Everyone, tune into our main episode on Thursday, and don't forget to tell a friend about how.
Much you love Native Lampod. Welcome Home, y'all.
Native Lampod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with Reasoned Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.