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Welcome, heyvam, You're about to hear a replay of one of our interviews from our live stream at the Democratic National Convention. Now. If you want to listen to or watch the full stream, be sure to check out links in the episode description. You can also find a full list of all the guests we've interviewed.
Welcome home, y'all.
We have Ellie, Ellie, miss Salas coming up now to join us.
Our Supreme Court expert.
Is in the building and we are thrilled because we had We had lunch with him earlier and Ellie was breaking it down. This is his favorite thing to do. There's also a photo shoot happening on.
This stay well you can, I say you have our lunch here. Come on, Honor. I want you all to know, thank you, Governor. We appreciate you being here. During our lunch, we Andrew and I had talked about if we were going to expand the court and we got to name some of the just who will we name?
And I just want you ont to.
Know where Angela RII called to serve on Scotus. Her answer was a resounding no, thank you.
But what did I say I would do? What did you say? Our confirmation?
Yes, and Ellie and her agreed they both just want to be nominated so they could have the hearing itself.
Yes, Ellie, we're happy to have you.
Hello, it's like Saturday morning.
I love that, Angela Rye.
I will tell you, Ellie, I have read the column you wrote in the Nation that it's impossible to overstate the damage done by the Supreme Court in this term. I've read that to so many people, giving it to so many people. I think that is one of the most important that people should be reading right now.
Thank you so much. It is the issue to me is the issue of the moment. People forget that the Supreme Court is a third branch of government. It has just as much power the other two. And if you ask the Supreme Court, it has more power that's the other two because it thinks that it has a veto
power over the branches of government that we elect. So as much as I love being at the Democratic National Convention, as much as I love voting rights, according to the Supreme Court, my votes just for show right because they are the ones who think that they have the real power to shape the laws and rights and responsibilities in this country.
Why are more elected officiers just coming out and saying the Supreme Court is no longer a legitimate institution?
Yeah? Why? Indeed, at some level, I'm happy they don't because I get a job.
Oh why don't they? Why don't they say that? I think that there are a lot of reasons. One of the reasons is that we have we have elevated the Court to the status of clergy right, to the status of religion right, And so we have such a genuine flect and a respect for the Supreme Court that calling them to the carpet for their bs is not something that comes naturally for the other branches of government. Certainly doesn't come naturally for older established politicians.
I think that's one problem. The second problem is that.
You know, especially on my side of the aisle, on the black left, on the progres have left, we have institutional memory of when the Court was good, right, of when the Court was a leader for civil rights, a leader for voting rights right, and so we look back on those days and we think, well, we shouldn't be too harsh on the court now just because they don't agree with us. People forget the warrant court that eraror that I'm talking about, that was about like fifteen years.
For the other two hundred and twenty years, the war has been one of the most reactionary branches of government.
And in the country.
It has routinely kept its foot on the neck of black and brown folks in this country. And you can go all the way back to eighteen fifty seven in the dread Scott decision where the Court, not the Constitution, not even the slavers who wrote the Constitution put this in their document, but the Supreme Court said a black man has no rights to the white man has bound to respect. That was a court decision, not a constitutional amendment. Right,
that's eighteen fifty seven that start the Civil War. You can go all the way up to nineteen oh eight plus ev.
Ferguson.
That's the Supreme Court that said separate but equal is just fine and does not violate the Fourteenth Amendment. That people just fought and died and thought a whole war over right, that's the Supreme Court decision. So if you look, if you take a longer view, yeah, the Court's always on.
It's bs a right ask you, Ellie.
You know, I've been talking to folks a lot about how important it is for us to have our own legal defense fund, our own strategy, one to protect elected officials that the Department of Justice is targeting regardless of who's in power, but also to protect our civil rights and our interests. We saw affirmative action dismantled in this
Supreme Court that you're talking about. What about us using that same approach to go after things like legacy admissions right, going after the contractors who use their white lives as front companies in the federal government and get some of those affirmative action benefits. What about using those same strategies. Have you thought, Okay, you ready to go ahead?
So I'm gonna answer that question, but I want to I want to I want to pre answer that question with something right, because one of the questions I've gotten a lot, I've gotten a lot this convention from you know, average you know, random black delegates that are they're here at this event. How does Supreme Court import impact black people? And how is how are our rights affected by the Supreme Court? And one of the things that I always try to tell people is look at what they say
in Project twenty twenty five. Yeah, because your question, Angela, it hearkens to there is an organization that is supposed to defend the civil.
Rights of us.
It is called the Department Division of Civil Rights in the Department of Justice.
Ye.
Look at what Project twenty twenty five says about the Civil Rights Division.
It wants to change.
The Civil Rights Rights Division, take it away from defending the rights of black people and instead defend the rights of wait for white folks. It wants to make the Civil Rights Division. And then this is again they wrote this down. They want to use the Civil Rights Division to sue companies that use what they're calling DEI and hire black people as violating the civil rights and the Fourteenth Amendment.
Rights of white folks. Yeah, that's their plan.
Wow.
Right, So that's my pre answer in terms of to get to the heart of your question, like why don't we have more legal defense funds? And I will all just get shot out, shout out the und the BLACP Legal Defense Fund.
J Day Nelson. I saw her here.
Lawyers Committee, But they're designed to do something different. We need a proactive fighter like they do like, first, what is America America?
Steven Miller thinks your problem with that is that you always run into the judges, you always run into the Supreme Court. Right, So I can I can give you the most eloquent, the most well researched, the most detailed lawsuit in the world. Neil Gorsich is going to rip that up and use it as toilet paper.
That's real?
Can we that's why?
Can we invite you? Invite the rest of the audience into a question we asked earlier today when we were eating, which was we talked about the expansion of the court by expanding it by three seeds, right, because that's what that that expansion four seats. I think that would get us above basically where this whole ideological imbalance is. You offered what I thought was a revolutionary set of ideas, and I asked that you share that with our co listeners.
Right. Look, I'm for corn expansion.
The current plan on the table is adding four seats to match up with our thirteen circuits we have. We used to have nine circuits shortcuts regions of the country, and that gave us nine justices. Now we have thirteen lower circuits. Thirteen justices plus four. That's the thought process behind plus four. I am for plus twenty. I want us to have twenty nine judges on the Supreme Court. Does that sound a lot?
It ain't.
The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, which covers California, Arizona, Nevada, at Alaska, Hawaii, Washington, and Oregon, they have what twenty nine judges, right, So we're gonna find enough chairs to have.
Twenty nine Supreme Court justices? Right? Number two?
What does all the lower courts do? They hear their cases not as a twenty nine member body, but as a three member panel chosen by random lot. Can you imagine living in a country where you don't get to choose your judges? I'm sorry, can you imagine living in a country where white folks don't get.
To choose their judges?
Right? Yeah?
That makes them like black folks, not getting the cheat, right. And so if you have a twenty nine member court, most cases are heard by a three judge panel. They don't know which judges are coming, which means they have to make their arguments center mass, as opposed to knowing that Alito or Roberts or Corsus is gonna be there to bail them out. And then my last point that I made that I made to Andrew at lunch was think about what we want the Supreme Court to do.
We want it to have.
Moderate center mass, universally agreeable decisions.
Right.
The more people we have on the court, the more likely we are to get moderate decisions because more people make for narrow majorities trying to get everybody on the same page. Everybody can can nose this in their personal life. If you got to get four or five year boys to go to dinner, you might go to some places you ain't supposed to go. You might go to some places your wife doesn't want you to go. Right, you
might end up at the club. Right, you gotta get twenty nine people at your family reunion to go to dinner. You're gonna go to Applebee's. Yeah, you're gonna go, Chelice. Yeah, you're gonna do some center mass and a dyne thing.
Right.
So, when you were talking about a fifteen fourteen split decision on a twenty nine member of Supreme Court, I promise you getting those fifteen cats into the same opinion, it's gonna make it super narrow and super mainstream.
Twenty nine is the number.
A brilliant idea.
You know it is, Ellie.
You's brought up January sixth, and I know as you as you leave us, we before we get to can we at least just introduce the officer.
Got so tight on this, Charlie, because I know you care a lot about the Supreme Heriot, I want you to ask your question, but I'll be very quick and introduce Officer Harry Dyne, who recently ran Foryl Hero.
The recognize him.
We saw him a lot during the impeachment hearing, but where we first met him was on that fateful day January sixth, when you saw somebody out there throwing bows, out there handling folks, and I just I you know, I love you, and I think you are an American hero, and it is our honor to have you tonight.
So we're definitely going to get to you.
But I do want Charlotte, cause arlat Mane is asked about the Supreme Court several times, so I'm curious to hear Charlemagne's question and Ellie's answer.
It's just a narrative that I'm seeing, Like the more people call out the Supreme Court, they say that people are only calling out the Supreme Court now because it has a conservative majority. So could you tell us why it doesn't matter what the party majority is what they're actually doing.
Yeah, So there are two answers to that question.
One, Yeah, I hate their decisions and I want to do anything I can to stop them because their decisions are taking away rights. I don't run away from saying like I'm mad at the current Supreme Court. But what the higher the higher ideal here, right is that the
Supreme Court as a whole has too much power. And I'd be saying that if it was a democratic or Supreme Court or the Republican Supreme Court, because the people in the system that are supposed to have the power are the voters, that's right, And the Supreme Court comes over the top of the voters and tells us what we're allowed to vote for, what we're allowed to believe, what we're allowed to pass legislatively. And that was never
the intention. To my last answer your question, Federalists seventy eight. So the federalist papers are like the John Jay, John Adams, and Alexander Hamilton writing about what the constitution is supposed to be. Right, there is one Federalist paper about the
Supreme Court. It's called Federal seventy eight, and in Federal seventy eight, Alexander Hamilton says the Supreme Court should be the least dangerous branch of government because it has neither the power of the purse that means it can't raise taxes, or the power of.
The sword that means it doesn't have an army.
The next time Alexander Hamilton would be as wrong, he'd be firing his gun up into the air.
In New Jersey.
Hey, that's how wrong that man was right. And so we need to get back to a dare I say conservative? Dare I say founding principle of the Supreme Court not being up? Or ask the entire time? That's what I'm saying. So I gotta go.
Can I say one more thing? Officer done?
So I've been at this convention, a lot of people ask to take my picture. I've asked to take my picture with two people, and one of them was officer Donefore.
You came up, Ellie, I saw you picking out your half for you definitely gonna have to do what we take these handles. But I am so grateful for you, you know, what we love absolutely every time. And then if I know you have another special guest you like to bring up.
Yes, please.
So also on that day, on January sixth, Officer Done was joined in your your wonderful service. I'll help you with your uh heads and I don't I don't want to mispronounce your name, so tell tell us how to say your last name.
Now, thank you.
And you also had a herowing testimony during the impeachment hearings as well, So I just can't say enough how we are so thrilled to be joined by two American heroes that day. And I want to kick it off with you, Harry, because first of all, I love how when you would call my show, I would see you on other shows, and when you finally made Joe.
Way to my show, she kept saying she was trying to get me booked, but I never got the message.
So as soon as I heard, I said, let's do it.
Sign it up.
He came on immediately.
But it was a whole you kept it a buck with me all the time. So I want to ask you now you know firsthand you were literally on the front lines wishing.
The MF wood okay, and you let.
A few people know. What are you most concerned about with this election cycle? And do you think that there is potential to see more political violence. I know we're keeping hope and talking, you know, a lot of positivity, but this is a real situation that exists out there with people who are disperporcately armed to the rest of us.
What do you think about it?
Let's talk about it. Accountability.
Well, first of all, on January sixth, I did my job as a police officer. On January seventh, I did what I'm doing now to this day as an American citizen who loved his country. It wasn't even about Capitol Police from then to now, and I was fighting for accountability for everybody responsible for the downfalls of those days, including Donald Trump.
Accountability serves two purposes.
For the people who were aggrieved, they felt some type of harm. It provides some type of closure for them, and also it serves as deterrent. That hasn't happened yet, So what's to keep it from happening again? The Supreme Court that Ellie was just talking about, they just said Donald Trump cannot be held accountable for his actions that day, right, So what is to stop him from doing it again. If you remember, in the first in the debate with Joe Biden, they asked him three times, where you commit
to accepting the results of the election. He couldn't answer it. So he's planning the seeds already to his supporters for the doubt. And that's what January sixth was about. It was about a lie.
They thought.
He told his followers, his cultist that the election was stolen and that's all they needed. If the most powerful person in the world tells you go march on the Capitol, then you're gonna go do it. I mean, my mama tell me do anything. I'm empowered. Can't nobody tell me do nothing. Imagine the most powerful man in the world saying, go do it. You're gonna feel empowered to do it.
So he's already planting those seeds. And yes to answer question, yes it can't happen again, and there's nothing really stopping it from happening again.
But us, but us, Hello, what did what did y'all think was happening on that day when everything first started you know occurring?
I mean it, you know, at first we thought that it was gonna be non violence. There was good litterus curmishes like we normally we do from time to time, but not to the level that the very same president who's supposed to have that world being of the country put in Jipardy the safety of every elect officials in the capital, and then not only did he do that, then he sat that sat on his behind and not
do anything to prevent any further violence. When I was in the tunnel fighting with a mob roughly forty thirty two, forty officers side by side, showed to shoulder fighting, holding down the line in the tunnel, I was asking myself the very same question, what the heck is the president?
And I used it.
I'm using that.
As with a less colorful word, what what the what the fuck is the president? I don't know if I could curse or not, but in my mind, I was like, what the fuck is the president?
Where is our help? Where is that reinforcement?
Because this happened in broad daylight, sixteen blocks away from the capital. Me as a military person, as a veteran, as somebody who went to Camba, and I know the chain command.
The chain command ends.
At and begins with the commander in chief, who was the commanding in chief at that day, Donald Trump.
What did he do?
He put everybody inside the building, including the officers at life Arrests, and we protected joined at the official Whether you were from Georgia or California or New York, we were protected the same. I didn't care whether we were it was AOC or Myelian Green, I didn't care. We protected both the same. And to hear that today, there's a report that he's planning to do a gala for the January six sister writers.
January for next month, next month, for next month, not for the officers who risk their lives, because they claim that we are the party of law and order.
We are the party that supports law, the rule law. We are the party who support the police.
How is that supporting the police if you are celebrating and uh not denouncing the violence that people did to the officers.
People died. And that's what I did last night.
I tried to convey that in my in my speech last night, because look, my story is not it's something that everybody should know. I'm literally the embodiment of that type of immigrant that they are. Republicans say that they won in this country and asking ask me how many of electrificial Republicans have talked to me about what happened to me on Joanney six two, Liz Cheney, Liz Cheney and had the kinstinger.
Nobody else.
I had passed a lot of them, and no, no, no, no, even can get themselves to say I'm sorry for what happened to you now that I'm asking thank you for what you did. Look, I came here when I was twelve. I'm sorry.
I came here when I was twelve.
I struggle first, you know, with family, with adapting, assimilating, but I overcome those things. I got an education, I joined the military. I went to fight for this country overseas when my government told me too. Whether I liked it or not, I did my job there. I kept my duty in my oath. When I came back, I finished my education, and then I became a Capitol.
Police officer, where I.
Was for seventeen years until the injuries that people that claimed that love police officers agreed with me. They damaged my body, damaged my health, damaged my career. And then they had the audacity to tell me I did it for you, And then they called me you are a trader because you stopped me and my people like minded people like me that support Donald Trump.
Well, you're certainly not a trader, neither of you.
You are heroes.
And even if Donald Trump, I won't.
Tell you thank you, thank you for your service.
Bottom of a heart.
I just want to know how did y'all show reach strength and not turn it into a bloodbath.
Because.
If it was about restraint, man, it was just about survival.
Man.
I had.
I was armed that day with a long gun AR fifteen. You know the ones, the guns that were on streets, right, they know they're the ones that we don't need on the streets anymore. But I wasn't going down in the crowd of you going there. You pull your gun out. Our former chief wrote the book, we were out number fifty eight to one. You pull your gun out. Then what which one you're gonna shoot?
Who do you show? Who do you shoot first?
You can't just fire indiscriminately, And I think that just shows the professionalism of.
What police should be, what should be not just when the bust somebody pot of hot water.
Look, we were just defied to use me to force.
We chose now to because we didn't know who was had weapons in their side and in my belief when I faced that dec issue, because I almost did, especially when they were draggon.
Whatever happened to fan fun relieve me.
And when I got a chance to go back into the fight, people were trying to pull me into the crowd and I didn't do it because somebody else hit another officer, the person who was dragging me. That that my shoulder. By then I was hurt and injured. Look, we were justified to use little force. What we didn't want to do was create a bigger situation that we're already our number anyway. Yeah, Look, if you want to hear more about our story, Harry.
Harry has a that dude right there. Yeah, he has a book called Standing My Ground.
I have a book telling my story, the immigrant story, that set military story, and the.
Police officer story.
My book is called American Shield, The Immigrant Serjeant who Defended Democracy. I also use a policy a website where you guys could learn a little more about myself and the sacrifices that I had done to this country.
Thank you for having us.
I'm not taking.
Future bio Smith.
Thank you guys so much, Thank you guys so much, Thank you guys so much.
We thank you. I am too. I am so glad you.
Guys.
Hi, thank you so much, thanks for listening to you guys.
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