The Hours w/ Emer Harkin

So much to talk about, which is why I'm talking so fast, Okay, I just I can't eat between the ice cream and the pasta and the puzzles and the green sludge. And I'm still reeling over Olivia. Like, can we just say I am a living, breathing Olivia Stan account. Now, I don't care what anybody says. Just the way that she carried herself through all of this and has just been such a fighter, The way that Harassio like supported her as well, Like that she this is an Olivia

Stan account. Just she's such an inspiration. The final as a whole one hundred hours a hundred out. Do you guys know how long a hundred hours is. It's a long time. One hundred hours that is like half of a week, half of a week with no real shower and just like sludge, and then you're eating stuff and you know someone's been severely injured. Now, so that's kind of like running in the back of your mind because you don't want to be injured. And everybody's limping and

everybody's yelling. It is just pure chaos. And I'm so excited because we're gonna get some behind the scenes. You're not going to get this anywhere else about the final how it all came to be, all of that stuff when we get into this interview. Okay, let's talk about some highlights from this week now. First of all, someone who would be up for a gold Star would be

Tori and her hair. Because I don't know if you caught this, but at about hour fifty, when everybody else is looking a mess, Tori emerges from her tent with silky smooth. Lucks pay at least one hundred dollars for that kind of blowout on a regular basis, And I'm not going through the elements. I don't understand what shampoo Tori is using or how she managed to look so falless coming out of that tent. But you think I'm kidding, go back and rewind and look at it. Watch it.

You'll see the difference. Right. I'm not talking about the whole final, but there is a moment about halfway through she gets a little asleep, wakes up, and her hair looks like a pantine probat. Commercial girl gets a gold Star nomination just for that. Okay. Some other nominations come from Tory recognizing the pattern, Anissa recognizing the pattern. I know people get on Anissa, but what I'm loving about this final is that it's not all about just strength.

It's not all about endurance. It really is like brains and braun and stomach capabilities. And our girl, Anissa recognizes the pattern, okay on the little puzzle thing points it out. And then also, this is really where she gets the gold Star nomination. Is patient enough that when Jordan is being stubborn about it, she doesn't try and hammer it home, but instead she's like, Okay, I laid the pieces out for you. I'm gonna just wait and let you figure

it out. I'm sure that some of you have been in relationships with partners where you had to do that, where you had to let them think it was their idea even though you knew all along I'm here with you in solidarity. Uh huh, and Anissa was holding down to she gets a gold Start nomination. And then also i'd say that, you know, Nanni and Bananas being the comedic duo here right, like, I feel like I can't think of that like super old, like old old comedy

troupe that was like super popular. It'll that did like slapstick, You'll know who I'm talking about. It's like old old, like black and white level old. But that's the vibes that Nanni and Bananas are giving me for much of this final even if you go back and listen, even the music that's played between Nanni and Banana scenes, so like when it's anyone else, it's like very intense, you know, tent and to and then when it's like Nanni and Bananas trying to figure out a puzzle, it's like like

just just go back and listen. It's hilarious. I appreciate their, you know, the comedy element that they are sort of adding to this, even if Bananas is trying his best to annoy the hell out of Nannie part at the time. But they all get gold Star nominations for this week. I think the winner is going to actually be in terms of who's getting a gold Star, I think it's going to be Tor and Devon, and it's actually going to be because of their communication level. I'm loving the

way that they're communicating. I know that there's not a lesson in everything, but there isn't a lot of things, and the way that they are communicating, like, sure they blow up, they have their moments, but the way that they come back and own it quickly, the way that they speak to each other with love. There's a moment where Devon even says, and look, I never thought I would give this much fan paire to Devon and or Dave,

but here we are. The way that they come back and say, you know, look I'm frustrated, but I love you. Look at what they're able to accomplish so far with that. Now, I know they're not in the lead anymore, but still they've put up you know, they've been in the the majority of the time, and they're really putting up a good game. And it comes down to a level of respect with their communication. Let that be a lesson in

our relationships. Now my time out of the week, you know, last week it would have gone to the golf ball. This week it has to go to Jordan. Jordan runs his mouth a lot. I mean a lot. And this is coming from someone who runs her mouth and gets paid to do it a lot. Jordan, we get that

you are passionate, we get that you want to win. Like, let's even break it down to this, So Anissa hurting her ankle, right, and I've seen some of the people online, you know, have dipped strong opinions one way or another about her ankle injury. It happens, happens to the best of us. I do think that Jordan should take some ownership because it was his bright idea to run through the woods like Hansel and Gretel instead of the clear path,

and then Alisa rolls her ankle. If they were on the clear path, that would have been less likely to happen in my opinion. But also him just being so mean and doing some low blows like brah brah. Okay, maybe you're the terrorist of love, all right, maybe you are, like fine, you're passionate about the game, you really want to win. But this is true for anyone. Passion withoutcome passion is weakness. It's not strength. Okay, I'm gonna say it one more time. Passion without come passion is weakness.

It is an Achilles heel. It will limit you. I don't care how many times you've won this game before. You will only be able to advance so far if you can't bring compassion along with you. Now, I'm done preaching for the episode, but just gonna put that out there. Jordan ghost it in time out with some pasta, maybe some ice cream, I don't know, whatever suits your fancy. Maybe don't want to see that again after what they did too in this final eating all that food. Totally

get it. Also, where was the ice cream eating challenge on free Agents? Look, I know it's been ten years, but I'm actually a little really like I would have you know, I know my strengths, and that would have been one of them. It would have been it would have hint. Anyway, so many good things happen on this episode. I'm still emotional to about Olivia and Harassio, which we will talk about a little bit as well. I'm going to dedicate this episode to them, to Olivia as well.

Just yeah, it's an Olivia stand account. Get with it, you guys, all right, we have we have Emur hearken on. Now, if you've been listening for a long time to this podcast, you know who she is. If you haven't, then you don't know who she is. I'm going to tell you. She is the executive producer. She is the showrunner, which is literally the top of the top of the top of the top of this season of the Challenge. She's

going to give us some insight and tea. And because we still haven't let it go, and by we, I mean me and some of you guys on Twitter and read it and Instagram, we also compare and talk a little bit about that final from Challenge USA because people are still whining about it and I just wanted to get the record straight and clear things up about how tough that final was comparatively. And she does give some insight,

so we get all into it. We talk about the nose incident with Olivia, We talk about the testing process with games. I tried to ask the questions you all want to know because you know that I listened to you, so shout out to you. Thank you, love you, thank you, guys. Also for those who've left positive feedback on Twitter and who've left positive feedback on the review on Apple podcasts

and Spotify and even Reddit. Love you all. You're going to love this episode, So hang party with me, your girl, Devin Samone, go grab some birthday cake please, and my honor, you know, grab a snack, but don't actually go anywhere because you're not going to want to miss this episode. All the things you want to know coming up right after this, stay tened. I am so excited to introduce this next guess. You may know her by her lovely accent.

You may know her as Emer Harkin. I know so many of the Challenge contestants and players love and adore Emur. You may know of as executive producer. You also may know her as Hbic because on the Ride or Die season she is literally the head bitch in charge. But please welcome Emer Harkin. Hi, my goodness, thank you so much for a lovely intro, Devin, It's so true, how awesome.

Can we just take a moment for those who don't know, showrunner means and and Emer so humble by the way, because we were like Emur, what exactly was your official Because Emur has been in the trenches for years. If you didn't know, now you know Imur was around when I was doing challenges even she's been around for a long time, and so she's like, oh, executive producer or showrunner.

And for those of you who are listening, just so you know, like, executive producer is high up, and you know this show is coveted, so to get to that position says a lot. But showrunner that means you everybody's mama, Like that means you run everything on the show. Hints why it's called showrunner, and so that is huge. So am this season so cool? Thank you, you're so sweet. I actually never really take time to think about the magnitude of it, to be honest, but you know, now

that you've drawn my attention to it, it is. It's it's a big job, and it's a lot. You know, when it's nineteen episodes in a foreign country with a massive cast and a big show like that, it is a big undertaking. But I love it. I love it so much, I really do. It's it's awesome. It's just such a privilege, it really is. Wait a minute, though, now it's just hitting me. Does that mean you're the evil ass mastermind who came up with this hundred hour final? Oh?

What the hell? Every I don't know what notion I took. You know, I actually had a completely different finale written and prepared. Yeah, we were going to do something completely different, and I just had this. I don't know, there was just this niggle at me and I don't know where I kind of cooked this up. But I mean when we told the cast, you know, TJ arrived and said like, okay,

this has happening. It's one hundred dollars. I mean, they like several pulled me aside and said, like, that's a joke, right, like, it's not actually one hundred diars. And I said, oh no, it as you're on the clock, like when we start it is tic tick one hundred hours. And they thought it was not legit. They thought it was a joke. That is so mean. So it was so fun and they totally crushed that. I was so proud of them. Yeah, I mean watching it, it has been a lot of fun.

But one hundred hour, like some of the hardest challenges on record or finals on record have been you know what, thirty six hours, seventy two hours, something like that, but never in the history one hundred hours. And we're gonna dig into what we've seen in the finals so far. But I'm just curious, like how far in advance does

this start percolating in your mind? Like where, Like are you out one day with Brents having lunch You're like, oh, pasta, we should add this to the final, Like totally, do you up? You know. It's like, so I start creative on show, you know, months in advance, so like we will know that the show is right or died, and then I'll be thinking along with the team about games and fun things they can do, and you know, just

general creative thoughts about the season. But with regard to a final, you know, it's something that's cooking in my brain pretty early on because it's a big priority for me. You know, it's it's such a big moment. Everybody wants to make it to the final, and so I take it really seriously and I want it to be something that they're impressed by and that they're daunted by. So yeah,

it's something that's always sort of cooking. But I also get really inspired by wherever we're shooting, you know, like what's near us, what will feel different, what have we not done, what's going to test their limits, what's going to make them go what it is this? Oh, like this has never happened, and you know it's that's tricky after you know, thirty seven previous seasons. But but yeah,

you just think about it. I'd like, you know, every it's it's constantly like your brain's just constantly going U. So, yeah, it's it's never ending. Really, do you, guys when you say you're inspired by your location, is it something where you know, long before you guys start shooting, you fly down there yourself. I know there's obviously like kind of location scouts, but do you go take a look and then you kind of add that into whatever you're thinking?

You know, okay, and it's such a beautiful perk to the job, you know, I'll go. So this season we filmed just outside of Juanasires and Argentina, and so I flew down like four months before we shot there, and you know, like I'm looking at houses, I'm looking at a scenery. I'm you know, scurring the map to see what's nearby, what's within striking distance, what looks cool, what what feels like it would be? You know what, what's impressive on camera? What are the casts going to be

totally blown away by? So it's a really creative. It's a really creative process and it's so fun. Great, yeah, yeah, that's when. And then how big is the team that's helping you craft like the final and the dailies and

you know how all that works. Oh well, we have a challenge development team, a team of like three that are coming up with games and eliminations all the time, and that that happens like months before we leave, so we've got you know again, we'll know the theme as right or days and we'll be like, okay, what games would be fun? What are scary? What are funny? What are really physically assaulting? What's a really fun mental challenge? So we'll do they'll do all of that months in advance.

But the final is something that's more sort of spearheaded by the showrunner generally, and every showrunner is differently. But I will sort of come up with the concept and then utilize you know, my team, my KOEEP, my games producers to like help me flash that out and like figure out you know, beats and segments within the final. But but I like to have pretty strong creative control of the final. I jet I come up with most of it myself because as I say, it's just a

huge priority for me. Yeah. And my last question for you on the final are you do you ever test these you yourself test these things out or like are you a big runner? Are you a big puzzle person? Like what area of the final do you feel like you'd excel most? And he could be all of them,

but you know, I used to do distance running. I actually used to run at national level in Ireland when I was like thirteen, and then I hit my teenage years and like I gave it all up for like you know, boys and partying and all those fun things. So I think I could probably handle the endurance, but I'm not in that sort of like physical shape anymore. I've had two kids in the last four years, so I don't think I could take one hundred hours of running, but I so that would be okay. I would be

totally fine with eating and mental puzzles and things. I would be fine, but I don't get to test them anymore. Like years ago, I used to be able to test everything. Like my first season was dual too in News England in Queenstown, and I was able to test all those stunts. I never fell into water. I was always. I hated the drops into water. That was like the one thing that I really didn't like. But we're not allowed anymore.

I'm not allowed to test anymore, so we haven't. Do you guys have a separate stunt team or something that's yeah, well, we have a we have a test team. So we have a stunt team to test all of our big stunt builds before we put testers on there. And then we have a team of testers who are with us for the entire production to test every challenge so that we know how everybody's going to play, how people are

going to try to cheat, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. So we've played every chat challenge and every elimination and every part of the final multiple times before we ever shoot it with our cost, and our cost always do it differently. It's bonkers. Yeah. Yeah, So there's two. So it sounds like there's two kind of sets of checks and balances because you have the stunt team who'd like test it out first. Then you actually have a test team who test it out as well, exactly having the challengers come

and do it themselves. Speaking of how people can cheat, one thing, I have literally fifty million questions for your Emra. I'm so glad you're here. And one thing that stood out to me and watching this week's episode was the it's the thing I've said that I would thrive in in a final, the only part which is the eating challenge and eating something good like pasta, even though there

was no marinara and ice cream chopped ice cream. Of course, my question in watching that and when Nanni and Bananas were like just shoving handfuls of pasta in their mouth, which was actually very smart thing. Using a fork also looked really disgusting. What were the rules around being able

to throw it up? Because I'm sitting there thinking and trying to think how people strategize and just kind of what I remember from back in the day and doing them, and it's like, I'd imagine you just shove it in your mouth, shoo it a few times, and then just proceed to like like almost the quicker you get it in your mouth, the quicker you can kind of quote

unquote vomit it up. Like what were were there like certain rules or things you were eyeing out for that to make sure that everyone really tried to like swallow it and digest it or you know. Yes, So I get asked this question so often it's pretty hilarious. Actually. So I was a game as producer, as you remember, and when I was a segment producer, I somehow always got landed the eating challenges and so I like, I really particular about them as a result. And it's really

the rule is really simple. And no matter what the eating challenges that we produce and on my shows, so you have to show me that you've swallowed it before you compuke. So we've got a efferey on every table. So say there was a ref like eyeballing Nanni and Bananas and Jordan and Nanis and so on, and you are you're just watching show me that you swallowed. And

now if you want to get sick, no problem. But if you puke without showing a ref that you swallowed, then your play gets topped up with you add more back to the place. Y, Who does anybody have to get more added to their plate? No? But also because I know the guys so well, Victorian Devin have jumping with me before, Jordan and Nisa have done so many the same with Nanni and Bananas, so they know the drill.

They're just sort of like Okay, chomp, chump, chomp, Yeah, my mirt's empty, and then they puked like it was Actually it was actually really straightforward to manage because they've all done it so many times. They've know the drill. Oh my god, I love getting tea. This is so good. All right, we're gonna take a quick break, y'all know, we gotta pay the bills, but don't go anywhere because we're gonna get right back into it right after this.

It's definitely a final of veterans, although Olivia and Harassio arguably go down in history as some of the most fearless rookies I know I've ever seen. I'm curious, you know, how you would categorize Olivia and Harassio's performance throughout this season. I couldn't agree more. And they were awesome. They didn't balk at anything. They took everything that we threw of them through at them, and they just you know, embraced everything with a smile. They were like, sure, no worries,

can't wait. And they really were fearless, and I think they're they showed and there they were never scared. You know, in their performances you can see that, and so they were really they had just bad luck, bad luck, bad luck with the final. It was a really difficult day. It was such a bummer. Yeah, you wonder too, like how much of that in the final was bad luck?

And I, you know, I don't know the answer, and I'd love to know your take how much of it was bad luck and how much of it was there sort of the rookiness or the novice nature showing right like just about things. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess, I mean maybe that came into it, that you know, sort of novice nerves could have been involved in what happened. I think that nerves that you feel in the final are so different to nerves that you experienced throughout the

rest of the season. It's, you know, it's everybody's been building to this for months. Literally you're a step away from you know, glory, and it's it's a lot. So for sure, there's different, you know, nerves are a different level. But I think that they you know, they're they're just

they're obviously not as seasoned as the others. And I think with Olivia and during her finger, what happened was totally late, random and maybe they weren't being as her full you know, the others know that if they know how to handle apparatus, and so do Olivia Harassio. But I think that, you know, maybe they were just sort of jittery and not as as meticulous with their handling

of things. So like sure, like maybe had she been like super careful, but then in saying that, she would have been slowing down and they were just like so gong hole to get it done. But when it came to the slang shot, Oh, I hate talking about it because it was just those are terrifying moments as a showrunner.

What was run through your head when you because I imagine were you right there when she got hit in the face with the golf ball where no, no, I had just advanced, because so we leap frog with the finals, so like at parts, I'll be with first place, I'll be with second place, or I'll be with third place. At that for that portion, I had advanced, and but the medic and our safety supervisor were there and I got word on walkie immediately and I was back within

you know, like ninety seconds. But I tested that game, like I don't know for how many hours we had played that game In an earlier challenge, as you would have seen and so to just have tested every iteration of it. Yeah, but you know she I guess the injury was caused because she had damaged her finger and so she wasn't really plated. Like yeah, so like it was just so it was just such a freak awful accident. And but like that's the that's the worst case scenario

for me, Like I hate anybody getting injured. It's it's awful. It's it's always scary. Yeah, but again, they handled it really well. They were they did handle it really well. And I mean I teared it. I knew it was coming, and yet even watching it back, I couldn't help but just tear up. And their support of one another and Olivia's wanting to continue to fight. I mean, I if I had more room in my Instagram bio, I would change it to Olivia's standing out now because I do.

I just She's She's been iconic all season. Yeah, like I love her so much, and um, you know there's been talk after that aired about the like watermelon challenge that happened on Amazing Race years ago. Did you ever see that? I did you have thoughts of that? You know afterwards that moment, Like, what are your thoughts of

people comparing the Watermelon Challenge and what happened to Olivia. Yeah, I mean, look, of course it's going to draw comparison, and I think everybody is always wary of sling shots and catapults for that reason. And the type of ball that we had was selected for a reason, you know, what had to go with certain distance, if to break

through a certain fabric and so on. So like it's I suppose with any of these things you sort of you it's it's it's calculated risk, right, Yeah, you just you make the game as safe as you possibly can and you hope nothing happens. And in that situation, you know, it was that one in a thousand hit and and it was just so awful. But I think unfortunately, as a challenge producer, that's something that we all have to

do with the show. You know, what we do is serious and people can get injured and the stone you know, whether we're you know, at one hundred story building and we're throwing people off a roof or whatever that is, you know, it's it's really dangerous. So whether it's a slingshot or whether it's building, or whether it's somebody falling into water. There is always that risk and and so it's it's it's a lot of responsibility, and it's it's

that's a heavy part of the job for sure. And you are what I loved seeing too with you, and it's that much more impactful in my opinion since you are the HBI cum her show runner. Is we saw you um and not everyone may know this, but you were the one who hugged Rascio out to fight and continue. And so I love that you sort of broke the fourth wall and just stepped into frame and really gave him a hug and and supported him in that moment um that was so mad. But what was what was

going through your mind? Was there ever a consideration that that I know the theme was you live and ride, But was there ever a thought that maybe he'd be able to continue? Like? What what didn't What did we not see in that moment? So what we what you didn't see is that the most important thing first of all is that Olivia's okay. So when I I arrive, I get informed by our safety supervisor, by the medics, like what's happening? Getting her the correct medical care, which

by the way. She didn't want to avail off because she wanted to keep playing. I had to like absolutely insist that she go because she's just that badass. And Haracio was just amazingly supportive, and they were just what you saw was very real. You know, they were just totally supportive of each other. But because I knew the mechanics of the rest of the final, I knew that he needed a partner, and there was no iteration of him being able to continue on his own, so I knew.

I knew that it was either the two of them or nothing, So Harassio continuing on his own. Unfortunately, it was never going to be an option. But I gave him several minutes to let it sort of digest, and he was obviously super emotional, and he was like, em or please, I'll do whatever it takes. I will whatever you need me to do. And I had to. I just like I had to, you know, just like let

it sit. And then after a couple of minutes, I stepped in and I and then I think when I hugged him and I said, I was just so sorry for the way this was happening. I think that's when he realized, Okay, like it's it's game over. But it was a horrible I hate, you know, saying goodbye to anybody when they're eliminated from the game. In any the capacity is awful, whether they've lost an elimination or um or it's injury. In this situation, it was just so cruel.

It was so heartbreaking for them, and it was you know, it's painful for me as well as them, especially after how much they had contributed to the season. You know, yeah, that's it's always heartbreaking. Kind of reminds me of UM back in the day when car Maria wanted to continue and she'd broken her wrist and she wasn't able to um. She was medically dcuted, which is remember, you know, yeah,

so sad. What would you say or some of the moments without giving spoilers of what we're going to see next week, but so far, like, what are some of your proudest moments of this season? Oh? Wow, it's so hard. It's so hard. You know, it's because it's such a long shoot. I mean, it was a very long shoot. So I was just so proud of the crew and the cast for getting through it. You know, ten weeks to keep up momentum and energy for that amount of

time is a lot. So I think just like getting everybody you know through, delivering a good product is obviously always super super meaningful. I think that I just loved our cast. I thought they were so awesome. There were just such beautiful moments and true friendship and like having each other's backs. I love the romanceing. I loved like the final for me, and I don't want to give any spoilers because it really was a very different final and it was something that I'm really proud of. You know.

It was sort of it felt very much of like, you know, the ilk of a regular final for the first for the first you know, like fifty or sixty hours, and then it just completely flips upside down and it goes like somewhere that nobody will be expecting. Yeah, And

so I really was proud of that. And to hear Tori and Devon and Bananas and Nanny, I think Jordan Ninissa did so they said that what happens at the end of the final, they said it was the coolest thing that they had ever seen on the show, And so that meant a lot, like they were totally and we really are able to give them this gigantic surprise moment in the final episode, and that is important to me, that I have really caught them off guard. That that's

really important. And also whenever the players came back, you know, whenever Mariah and so one came back and we're playing to get back in the game, that was a curveball that they weren't expecting either. You know, they were genuinely shocked, And that's important to me because it's hard to keep anything secret from newcast members. As you know, you guys are always you have eyes and ears everywhere. So I think that's that's probably my takeaway from the season. The

ability to surprise at certain moments was awesome. You definitely good. I mean the first episode where we saw one of someone who got eliminated sort of come back, you know, when TJ was like, I think it was Nelson, right when TJ wasn't Nelson. No, it wasn't Nelson who got

I forgot But anyway, it's been a long time. I'm old now, but I just remember when we had the first of the episodes of the Rider Die season where they walked back and TJ is standing there doing that hand rub thing that he does, and he's sort of like, you know, you're not out yet, and my jaw just dropped, like my mouth was just like I could not believe it. It was such a surprise and so cool and fascinating

the way that you guys did that. Yeah, it was that was full and well Nelson actually was the first. It was we had and you know, we had like Bananas and Nanni comme in. We had like Jordan and Nissa come in, like we had Drell and Veronica coming in. That was fun. And then to like tell Nelson he was still in with a shot, and then you know when Race went died and then they couldn't continue in

the game. There was really there were profound moments of sort of you know, shock and surprise, and that is That's something that I think is really fun and I think the cast members get a kick out of it as well, which I love. Speaking of getting a kick out of things, did you guys get a kick out of having Jordan come on, it's a surprise tory this season? Be honest, What was the process behind that and how hard was it could convince him? It wasn't hard to

convince him at all. It was not hard to convince. Jordan, he was so darn it was amazing, and we he did ask if Tory was going to be there for sure. You know, it's very real. What they've gone through is just such a you know, it's just they've been through so much together and it's a lot. And I think that, you know, it was obviously a concern. I think it's really compelling as well. You know, they're just they're both awesome people and awesome characters. And I think that's shown

in the fact that we're also interested in that. And I think I, you know, I wasn't interested and intrigued and you know, really excited to see what would happen, just like everybody else. But it was definitely like we were all like, oh my god, he's really going to come. Did you tell Marie? He asked if Tory was going to be there, because obviously Tori didn't know, surprised she didn't know. Did you tell him that, yes, she would be on the season, or did you you did No,

I told him, yeah, I never liked it. If I'm asked something like if I can't answer, I'll just say, look I can't answer that question. But yeah, no, I told him because he also you know again, like I say, you guys have eyes and ears everywhere you kind of you like, you know, you know, he probably knew that she was gone anyway, but he was right, it's going to be there, and so I just said, yeah, look she is, and he thought about it for a second

and said, I'm down. You know. He was ready to come and perform, and of course, typically Jordan was like, you know, but he had been in Ukraine volunteering, and he was like, I'm really out of shape, you know, like I'm really not like in my best shape. And then he rises and I was like, are you joking? Like this okay, okay, sure Jordan, right, he made it all the way to the final. So do you do

you think that? Because in watching what we're seeing so far in this challenge, we're just so fascinating because I love that there there is a lot of endurance, which seems like my worst nightmare, but then there are a lot of checks and balances around these puzzles, Like there's a lot of these moments that are the great equalize, you know, a lot of equalizes, which is what we're seeing now because now we left off with this episode

where Nanni. You know, Banana or Banani is in the lead when it had been Tori and Devin for a long time, and Nissa and Jordan, even with her injury, aren't far behind, like, so it would less kind of in the words of Steve Harvey and family feud, anyone's game.

But do you do you think you know? Watching the communication between partners has been really fascinating, particularly during the final, and like you said, everything's heightened and there is a level of stress that like no one knows unless they've been in a final, right, Like there's just a level of pressure that you just don't know until you're there. It's still haunt ten years later, it still haunts me.

So but it's interesting. You know what I'm picking up is it almost seems like Devin and Tory are thriving because they really are best friends, right, like even off the show they are, but they co parent a duck together that I believe Devin got a garage shale once

who's on The Aftermath a couple of seasons ago. But they really are like best friends in that way, And not that there aren't strong bonds with the others, but I just feel like their ability to really adapt and support one another has been to their advantage where you see these other teams, even with a level of closeness, start to become individuals right in this final even though it's a right thing. Yeah, yeah, I agree to some level.

But I think also it's really down to individual personalities because Tory and Devin just sort of have quite and measure dispositions. They generally don't fly off the hand, they generally don't go too high or too low. And whereas Bananas and Nanny, like, I'm probably more like them personally as well, because I'm like, like if I go crazy,

I go crazy. Yeah, Like you know, my highs are high, my loads are low, and like and I think that, you know, you really see that with Bananas and Nanny, But I they're so tight and they adore each other. But I think it's just their way, do you know what I mean? Like, I think that that's just their disposition anyway. So like if something's going wrong or like they screw something up, they get so frustrated because they're because that's just sort of who they are, you know.

And and I think it's the same with Jordan and Nanisa and Nissa's like probably more level than Jordan's because Jordan's in this so like it. I guess, of each of the pairings, I think the Tory and Devon are probably the most similar. Yes, your words, your words, my friend, I'm retired, I can say, yeah, I love you. So I think that they I think that they are just probably the most sort of even and I think that

that really helped them. They never you know, they're they didn't really ever have that much conflict they had throughout the season as well as the final, you know, right, or they seemed to apologize about it and say it doubled down, like yeah, in the little bit that we saw at least right where um who when they were doing the puzzle thing, you know where they were standing

up on the puzzle thing. There's seventy five puzzles in the final, but when they were doing the one where they had to climb up on that pole to like look down to get and it seemed like everybody was kind of cracking at that point, Like we literally saw a scene where every male partner yelled at his female partner in that particular like segment, Yeah, including Devin or

Dave yelling head. But then we saw and obviously there's certain levels of editing, but we still saw a fairly quick turnaround, you know, like I love you or I'm sorry, but I'm just frustrated here, whereas with the others we saw some kind of like heel digging before coming back together or before dropping it. Maybe it's a matchmaker in

Me and the Day Covid. I just seeing the dynamics of those partnerships and yelling versus being able to really communicate, which I feel like is what this season is largely about, right, Like Ryan dies, It's like really being able to communicate with your partner, Like that's your greatest asset. You don't necessarily have to be the fastest or the strongest. That's right.

That's right. And I think we've seen time and time again over the season, like use they succeed, those that succeed, and those that want It was all hinged on like how well they really knew their partner and how well they can really function as a unit. And I think that that's really compelling. And I think that as the final evolves, you'll see that more and more and like

and that's ultimately what the goal was. You know, we wanted to show who was the realist writer Die, and like that that true true bond and not true friendship and knowing of each other would be like you say your greatest set, I'm not and I think we get see that's right at the final Yeah, and I love that pairing. I love that theme. Um, I'm going to circle back to this question and give you time to

think about it. It's a question that probably no listener really cares about, but I care and I want to know emer if I were casting this Sea season, who would you cast as my writer? Die will come back to that answer, but I'm curious. Um, I also want to know, what is something else? Just for the the Committed Challenge family fans that listen to this podcast, I know they love when we get tea or a little

bit behind the scenes. What something else you can share with us that happened throughout the season behind the scenes that we'd be surprised to know. I mean, you guys know about the alternates and everything. Is that interesting? Like, yeah, you can tell us a little more about that, and like that speculation a little bit about it, but yeah, we always have alternates to travel to location. I think that's probably something that people might not know as much Abart.

So like we have like backup right or die pairs that will bring out and or if it's just you know, any season, we bring alternates as well in case someone gets sick or gets injured, or there's any reason, like towards the start of the show, if anybody needs to leave. So like we had you know, pairs from different parts of the world, like holding in a hotel room that like a hotel like five minutes from the cast house for like a week and a half and had you know,

had anything happened. So that's sort of like a little behind the scenes thing that happens every season. And those pairs got called up like because because it's we heard like um Jordan and a Nissa, right, were they an alternate pair or like the combination of the two of them were like an alternate pair? They weren't. They weren't.

So like we we had like the craziest start to the show, and there were a lot of changes, you know, like we live in a COVID world and it's a very real thing and you can imagine, you know, we have a crew of over a hundred, right, and we've got over thirty cast and trying to get everybody safe and healthy to location is virtually impossible, so we had to make a lot of last minute adjustments. As you would be able to tell in the first few episodes of the show, there were like people coming in and

people going. But Nam and his partner were alternates who came in, and Olivia Harassio were alternates who came in. So like we got really we got really lucky, you know with people that we picked and who came in, and then we needed like we called up Jordan and Anissa and you know, Bananas and Nanni were like a kind of a last minute edition because casting is such a massive jigsaw and like people are available at different times for different things, and you know, it's just it

really really is a massive jigsap. Although that we you know, it's a permanent shuffle, so it all fell into place. You know. I was just so stoked at the end because I was like, oh my yeah, like we really had an awesome fast you know, like we had Laurel, we had Nanny, we had the return and but nan As, we had you know, it just we it felt like we had a really good spread. So that was cool. Yeah, you know, you said that there was another final that

you had initially intended for this season. I'm curious because there's been so much chatter still about this, do you think that there would be final? Because I feel like we already know the answer regarding the current final, because it's pretty much the hardest ever arguably from what we've seen so far. But the final you had in your mind that was almost for the Rider Die season. Do you think it would have been harder than the Challenge

USA final or less hard It was so different. It was more water based, so it was sort of more specialist, and you know that where as the USA final was just like based so brutal. Well, it was so brutal, you know, it was just like an assault, a physical assault really and you know, you really like to even finish. It was just like such an achievement, whereas the Challenge Final was going to be more you know, we were in one of the biggest waterfall systems in the entire world,

so there was a lot of that. Like, it was amazing scenery. There was stuff in water and in boats and on like cliff pathways around the water, so it was sort of more location based. Yeah, but I don't think it would have been as tough as the USA final or the final that we've that we do on rid or Dice. It just would have been different. Yeah, can you give some insight then, because there's been a lot of whining about that USA final, Like a lot

of whining and as we saw, most people quit. If you guys haven't want to challenge USA, sorry spoiler alert should have said that two minutes ago. But um uh so, what how hard? Because it looked hard like all finals are hard. It certainly looked uncomfortable and hard. But the amount of quitting we saw, I felt like was unprecedented. And so there's some people saying, oh my gosh, it was so hard, But a lot of those people haven't experienced other finals because those are all non challenged people.

So it's hard to compare what is your genuine thought around how that particular final compared to other Challenge finals in recent years. I was in touch with the team on the Grind when they were there, and the showrunner of USA and I our dear friends, and so it sounded like it sounded like the conditions were really brutal. It did really sound like it was. It was. I mean, you can tell like it was really the cold giving yeah, like and you've you know, and you've been in that situation,

den like it's it's legit. Yeah. Also, you know, it was an unprecedented level of quitting, and I think that it's because a lot of those people hadn't ever writing put through something like that before, whereas like our challengers are like, and I say this all the time, and I really yeah, Like you guys are like, like, you

just don't stop, Like it's so impressive. It's funny. That was never really a concern for me at any stage with the hundred hour finals, yeah, and not funny, like, yeah, I never worried about it ever, right, And that that's not And I think that's why, you know, the other co host myself and Davon, like we talked about it and why we ride so hard for And I think that makes the challenge or people who kind of were raised up in the challenge a bit of a different breed.

Is like, you know, not taking away that that final in USA was hard, because it looked hard. It didn't look comfortable for anybody, but that we know you're fighting for the opportunity to get to the hard and I feel like, right, when you live in the challenge, you know that that's the expectation, like we were in you know, as I watched them bike on the one hundred hour final, the first thing I'm thinking is like, wow, they're taking

their shirts off. It must be tim where, like like nice temperature, whereas when we did it, for in Chile, it was freezing cold and Nannie got Offen was like, you know, crying and like you could see our breath come out. It was freezing cold to do that just to be able to sleep. And then of course we were hiking the snow covered volcano or what have you, and so it's like, yeah, it was cold there too. It wasn't nice. It was pretty brutal for us as individuals.

Yet you don't quit, like you just you don't quit on the Challenge. So so basically you're saying that, like, yes, it was hard and traumatizing. So they're not all complete babies, and we've had them on the podcast board, but you're also saying that it is in line with other Challenge finals. So it's not like it wasn't one hundred hour final. It wasn't like, yeah, I was shocked, to be honest, because it wasn't anything more. You know, it was comparably brutal.

It's what I would saying, so it does. It didn't feel like anything was devised. It was that preposterous. It was just really it was really brutal and really brutal conditions and I think certainly comparable to all their finals that we've done on the Challenge for sure. Yeah, got it, And thank you for sharing that in that insight. That's super valuable and just gives a little bit of we can continue to ride them about that. Is there anything

I know there is? Can you give us just a little hint of what we should look forward to for next week's episode the grand finale of this masterful final that you have put together. What should we be like looking forward to or keep our eye out for. Well, thank you. First of all, you're very very sweet. I

think that it's just such a surprise. There's a giant spectacle that is something TJ and I had so much fun with like create in creating it and building it and designing it, like it's it's almost sort of all their worldly the environment that they go into, and so it was, like I say, you know, there was a lot of like secrets and surprises this season. This was like the best kept secret and the revel when you

guys see it. Just to know that behind the scenes, we had crew hiding and pitch Black night for like hours, hiding their phones, hiding their equipment, hiding you know, everybody was in hiding. T J and I were in hiding. And then there is this moment, this reveal, and suddenly you're like transported to this crazy other world and it's it's awesome, it's so fun. Oh my gosh, I can't wait. You were I kidnot wait, I'm so excited. Okay, I

know you have to go. Um one more. We're gonna circle back to that question I mentioned earlier, because I don't forget things. Um, unless who would you cast? Is my ride on the Ride or Diason? Well? You see, okay, if it was a rider die season, so you would have had to be partnered with a dude. I mean, oh my god, would we I don't know? Um not Zach, thank you, but Zach? Who would we pair you with? Oh my god, so hard? Who would you want? I

don't know who? And I talked to a majority of the cast in doing the aftermats and the I'm not going to tell you who I'm closest with because we would have been eliminated season episode one, um if you did pair me with that person. So um. But yeah, I'm curious, who would you That's so hard. I mean, you see, it's sort of like I would want every probably like you would have wanted Bananas. Yeah, I would

have won it because we actually do well together. Well, we talked about I would say I'm his unofficial relationship advisor. He doesn't listen to UM. And you know, I've always credited Bananas with being the reason I even did the Real World and then the challenge. Really yeah, yeah, because

I met him. No, I never watched him, but I met him in colleague event in college, and I was tasked with being keeping an eye on hit, like taking him around the sea set event and he ate my McDonald's and I was really annoyed by that, but also intrigued about his personality. And then it made me. Literally that weekend, I went home and applied for the next season of Real World and got after meeting didn't know this, Yeah that's so cute. Yeah, I didn't know that, so

I'd taken You would definitely take a bananas for sure. Um, it's hard because I'm trying to think who are you closest with and like Unfortunately, but chet chet we get eliminated right away. Um, yeah, certainly not Zach. Yes, I mean no, shade to Jet. Not your guy. He's not your guy. No. If he yelled at me like that, Nah, wouldn't work. Wouldn't We used to yell at me, you know? Oh yeah, I know right, But he doesn't, not anymore. He doesn't anymore. We're friends. He never yelled at me.

We always had fun time together. But I mean defense, he always it was always during a game because yes, I was probably yelling at him to stop trying to cheat or something. That is very true. And that's like all of us. I have my eyes and my loves with all of you. You're like, yeah, we're my dysfunctional children. We are. We are like your dysfunctional. Oh I miss you, amur you too, call me when you're in La I will.

You are such a delight and it's so cool seeing you thrive and b the HBIC like admire that and aspect it so so much. Thank you for making time to come on um the Little Podcast that Could and share a little behind the scenes, excited to see this epic thing you have planned for us next week. I know it's going to be great. I'm probably gonna be like DM in you or texting you like, oh my god, so cool. Is there anything else you want to say before you roll out? No, I feel like I'm like

VIP right now. You're so eight you start to the day. Um no, thank you for having me. I'm sad I missed dave On. Please send her my luves And that's it. You guys, keep kicking ass. Thank you everything you do. You guys are the bomb. Thank you you as well, emer and also just for a mom out there kicking ass too. The fact you said you had two kids last four years, Like just seriously, like you right here are just um goading it for sure. I think that's so so phenomenal. So you gonna make bye oh bye,

I know, bye. Thank you so much, Thank you, bye guys, Bye bye you guys. Uh. That was such a great interview with Emur Harkin. I love that. So glad that she made the time and what can you believe it? Okay that there was a whole other final devised amazing, brilliant wonder when we're gonna see that in future seasons, because you know they're going to use it at some point. Also love seeing a woman in charge of all of these Challenge crazies. Just wow a lot of tea and

put Challenge USA on notice. Officially that final was hard, but it was as hard as other Challenge finals. I now rest my case. Thank you guys so much for listening. If you want to keep up with me and say hi, possibly get a shout out in a future episode, then you can go to my website Devin Simone dot com. That's Devin with a why Simon with an I. Scroll to the bottom you'll see my socials. You can also

follow me on Amazon. You can reach that via my website or you can go to Amazon dot com slash shops as Devin Simone, Twitter ig, same thing, Stevins Pretty consistent. I started posting on TikTok now too, guys, and like my video has a lot of views. I'm kind of proud of myself. I gotta get back in there, but go follow me on TikTok now. Maybe we'll connect over there. Thank you guys so much for listening. If you like this episode, if you want us to do more of this.

You want more or t then make sure that you tell a friend, a sister, mama, cousin, uncle, daughter, cat dog, and also rate and review on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. We do really appreciate your uplifting feedback. We appreciate your support and just being here and know that the Challenge family, Tory, Anissa, and da

Von we're all here. We're still going to be here and so excited to watch the season finale of The Challenge Ride or Dies next Wednesday at eight pm on MTV. You heard it here from Emer who designed the final that it's going to blow our minds. So can't wait to watch that. And then make sure right after that you come right back here because we'll see you for a brand new episode of MTV's official Challenge podcast. I'm your host, even Simone, And this is the place that

you want to be. Have a good week.