Struggling to Hold it Together w/ Corey Lay

Hi everyone, I'm Devin Simone and I am Davon Rogers and this is MTV's official Challenge podcast.

Yes oooh, it is the Official Challenge podcast.

With so much going on in the podcast, on the show, the Twitter streets, all the places, let's give a quick reminder of what happened this week, because y'all know with TJ on his chaos thing, it's just a lot going on. So this week we had the challenge Tower of Power where they use rubble to block each other from getting to the top of the tower. We have the Orange team win.

We have poor Kylin's face lose. The guys.

We had j Corey, em Manuel and James, and we had Berna, Mariah, raven Zara and Nourice for the girls on the winning team.

Shout out to the winning team.

Now they vote in after vote in one girl, they vote in Melissa, surprise surprise, and then the house votes in Big t also surprise surprise. If you can't hear the sarcasm in my voice, go back and replay it again. Then we have the draw for the mercenary.

We have.

Now, y'all know, when you saw the buns start moving in the shadows, you are knew who was gonna be the one and only Casey Clark aka Nanni's fiance shout out to them. Both Casey comes out, big T and Melissa are happy because they have friends right like, they know that they're friends with Casey, which is really great to see. I'm hoping that Casey draws, you know, the Chaos Battalion. Unfortunately she doesn't. She draws Big T. Super sad.

Cool, TJ, we see what you did there. Well, Ultimately it was.

Actually a pretty tight call for it being a champ versus a non champ.

First round goes to Casey, second round goes to big T. But ultimately Casey pulls out the win and sings big T home. Not only does she send big T home, she's taking ten thousand dollars from the team's prize pot. So sad to see Big T leave, But wow, what an episode day. What are your thoughts about this week's episode?

This episode was so good.

I was jaw on the floor because I didn't understand why my Kyl and Mike Kylan, Myke Kyland this rope like and in his mind, I really believe he was like, I gotta get this done. I think it was he created this pressure for himself that wasn't necessarily there, and so he created this pressure for himself to do this rope thing and it just went terribly bad.

And then he gets.

Hit in the face with the chain and it's just, oh my goodness, it just it was not.

A great episode. Oh my friend, Kylon, it was not a great episode.

He handled that like a champ, though, my guy, he I mean the amount of blood. He yes, yes.

It was not good. It was not good.

But seeing my girl, let me tell you something, I'm gonna stand beside her all day, big t I'm gonna stand beside her, seeing her go toe to toe with Casey and was hanging. She was hanging, And I'm just so proud, Big Ti girl.

I'm just so proud of you. I'm so so I'm so proud of you.

And Kasey Cayman did would need to be done, took another tenth fat they losing money, I think Michelle said eventually they're gonna start owing money.

They really are, they really are at this rate. And yes, it was it was beautiful, safe for Big T to see. For Big T, I feel like this has been Big T season in a way, and I am just here for it. I also feel like this is the perfect, real, like pivotal point for her. You know when TJ said, I believe you'll be a champ one day, you know, like I believe you're gonna come back, Like I am rooting for that to happen.

Let's make that happen. So rooting for Big T.

If we had to do Sittowns of the Week and we had to do gold Star of the Week, I'd say that my sit down of the week is actually gonna have to go. It's gonna have to go to Melissa. We don't throw things. We learned that in pre pre pre k and then we're reminded of it usually yearly. But you just don't throw. I understand being mad, I understand someone pissing you off, but.

Just just don't.

Just don't. It's we're better than that. Don't do that. It's not good. And then pour a soft shirt. I mean, his shirt didn't do anything to deserve getting red wine on it, So that was just to lose. That's who my Time out of the week is my gold star, Big Ta. She is a champ in my mind. Yeah, everything that she did this season, even going toe to toe with Casey, we love you, Big T.

Cannot wait to see you come back.

I'm so glad that you're not officially retired, and I believe she has everything it takes to get a win one day, what about you day?

So time out of the Week, of course it's going to go to Melissa as well. I gave it to her last week for not how to keep her feet to herself, and so I'm going to give it to her right again, like baby, we don't throw stuff like you. Gotta control yourself a little better. And then my gold star for the first time, like you, I have contenders, Okay, I have contenders, and so I have ASoft because I appreciated the entire Ross dress.

For last I thought it was so cute.

It showed him in a very a very genuine, almost innocent spotlight. Also, Jane, the way he tied these chains, okay, the way he worked hard and tie them chains, and then his whole thing about getting this money for his I'm a sucker for it. I'm looking for a man who talk about his mama. Love that em manual gameplay. I'm starting to watch him and I'm noticing, like my eyes are starting to drift to watch how he's playing

Olivia.

I don't know what it is about this season, but she's becoming the confessional queen this season. You notice how many confessionals she's done.

Yeah, she's confessional queen.

She's talking a lot.

She's talking a lot, but talking a lot, but talking good.

Like, let's say confessional count queen. Let's take count queen. Yeah, say that she's getting the count.

Yeah, sure, but you know, talking a lot and giving good, giving dress for less soundbites are two different things.

She getting a big count this season, and then of course our girl Big T.

At the end of the day, my winner is going to go to Big T. For sure.

She came, she saw, she conquered one half, and that was to show that she can potentially become a champ. And I really believe that, and I hope that for her. So yeah, my ultimate winner for my goal star would be big.

Ty, not you running just on a confessional count, you know what, I pay attention off, like.

You know, Brandon Butter, So I gotta watch who my composition is.

Who's funny?

They pick good storytellers, but then they also pick people who are funny and give one liners. And the funniness I feel like stands out more than anything. Not that Olivia's not funny, but Asaf has been rock even Jay has been saying some stuff that's kind of hilarious sometimes, like in his confessionals.

I feel like we should j Jay did.

What did he say?

He was talking about somebody's strategy a couple of weeks ago. That was hilario what he was trying to explain. Oh and by the way, Jay's theory this week when he was trying to explain the untying the necklace, then it's deeper than time.

That like you know what, you know what?

Anyway, all exactly d like and everybody and his team tried to rally behind him like they were all like yeah, yeah, like.

That sounds good. He had not a clue, not a clue.

Also good, you guys have no clue what's in store for you. This week, we finally have him on. I respect the fact that he's ready. He's going to come and step into the heat and he's going to talk about his gameplay this season, his strategy, his commentary, everything. We have a wonderful interview with the probably one of the messies people this season, the Corey Lay. He's going to talk about his sit down of the weeks and how many of those he's accumulated. All of that, So

All right, friends and cousins and them and everybody else that's listening to this podcast.

I have to say, this.

Is my most anticipated guest, and I'm so glad that he came to hang out with us.

Give it up one time for Corey. Corey Is.

I've been anticipating this too. I think I think it's been very obvious. You know, there's some criticism about some of the things I've done in this season, and I'm happy.

To talk about it.

You know, the highs, the lows, criticisms, whatever. I'd be the first to admit to everyone that what I some of the decisons I made I would not make again.

But I'm happy to jump into whatever we need to jump into.

Well, yeah, listen, let's let's dive on right into it, because before we even get into this episode, I want to take it back. Okay, yeah, back to last week's episode, Baby, what what happened?

Specifically deliberation?

What happened?

Yeah, So to give you guys the honest truth, I was trying to play both sides of the house, right. I was trying to because I did build a strong personal connection to Big Team Melissa over the course of you know, this point of the season, my quote unquote American Alliance or whatever you want to call that group of people. They caught wind of it and they were like, we can't trust Corey and we don't know where he stands.

I think one of my issues that I didn't share that with a lot of people.

But anyway, fast forward, I made it sound harsher than I was actually doing it because I knew if I didn't just put a line in the sand and unfortunately throw big teamless under the bus, I would have a really big number of people that were going to be coming after me day after day after day. And I made the decision that I'm going to burn two people to gain back the larger number.

Of people because of me getting caught playing bull sides. That was my fault.

And then I basically lied about it and tried to spin it so that my alliance would trust me again.

So that's how that happened. And it wasn't fair. You know, it wasn't fair.

Do you feel bad about how you how hard you went because I know you said ultimately you threw them under the bus because you're trying to kind of pivot, and I appreciate you acknowledging that. Do you feel like, do you feel at all sort of because now only did you throw them under the bus, Cory, But it seemed almost like you threw the under the bus and then you ran over them, and then you like put it in reverse and forward and then you like went over them again a couple of times.

Like it was.

It was pretty it was, and I was just like, what, who is this, Corey, like, what is happening?

So do you Yeah, what are your thoughts on that?

Yeah?

No, I do, and I wish they had shown it. But before Big T left we did talk. I had a conversation with her in the club and one of the biggest things that I know I made a mistake doing is that I you know, I'm a gamer in real life. I play a lot of video games. I play a lot of strategy games with a lot of board games, and I do really cut those things in

Yeah, we saw a clip of that, and that just seems yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I know that I know some of the some of the concerns and big t side is, you know, was that real from Coreya?

Was that not real?

And you know, I got back into a corner and went back to a corner I don't make great decisions, and me not making great decisions, I was very shortsighted. I'm like, how can I win my alliance back? But I didn't taken the consideration how that is going to hurt another person who's very close to me or you know, or what was close to me at the time. So like, I don't want to pretend that the way that I went about.

Things was correct.

I think I saw this as a game only and I did not take into consideration how I was going to be affecting other people. And I do feel bad and I did communicate this to Big Deal, and I yeah, I don't know, there's some people who won't believe me, but like it's the honest truth, Like it's multiple people, Like there's two people in the season who don't like me. It's a big team Melissa, everybody else get attest to that. I am genuine I am honest, I try my best.

Well, here's the question, Corey, because I know Day just to get back to like last week's episode, and I really do appreciate because yes, look, we were one hundred percent side eye. I'm definitely sure you got some of the sit down of the weeks in past episodes on this podcast, as we were side one in your gameplay. But even before last week's episode, weeks prior we sort of see because we had big tea on where it

Thoughts we can take it all the way.

Yeah, because an episode and episode one, you know, there's the moment when it's the Girls Day and everyone is trying to decide who do we want to throw in?

Multiple answer thrown out.

I think most people are deliberating between Melissa and big T and Berna at that point. So Bernard to me

But I felt so.

Beholden to aligning with the writer Dies people because of Michelle, and so honest, I don't want to blame Michelle for what I did at all, but I felt like I had no options. And in the beginning the house deciding who to vote for, the girls were already saying big Team Melissa. The guys are already saying it. I said, if we're going to do this, it makes sense because she's smart, and it gave her a lot of credit.

I think there's some like there's some.

Opinion on the internet that I actually don't like Big Ta as a person. That the opposite of the truth.

And I don't think. I've never said anything but her character. I never said anything.

I never said she's a bad person. I've never said that she never called out of her name. I've never said anything actually negative. My one thing I say in this early on in episode one is that she's smart. See social, So longer she's here, the biggest he's a threat. And that's I will give her her credit because she that's scared to me, because I'm not good at those things. As we see, I'm not good socially, I'm not good politically.

I'm not y'all.

This season really weren't great at it, Corey, So don't feel bad.

I know I know so much when I watched this. So yes, I'm sneaky, but at least I own up to it. But I watched this. Everyone is being sneaky, everyone's secret alliances. Everyone's like Emmanuel told Kylan, all let's work together. Three seconds later, Oh, I'm still gunning for him. Like I understand how a lot of it's coming on me, but we were all kind of messy, we're all kind

I'm so glad that you brought that up about Michelle and Jay and the loyalty there because hindsight twenty twenty right, looking back at.

It, was it worth it? Was it worth it? The whole situation?

I mean, I mean to have even to have Michelle turned to you after that whole spiel of you trying to save your face in front of your alliance.

For Michelle's time to you look you right in the face, right, I'm still going to vote for you.

So I'm gonna write, how was that?

How did that feel? Yeah? I was. I felt stuck.

There was nothing I could do, like I either had to stay with these people who aren't ultimately going to have my back of push comes to job or I defect the other side and they're still going to vote me out anyway. So it's like, I, honestly, I didn't know what to do. I felt like I was a rock and a hard and me being in that place made me discredit Big Ta Melissa as people, and like one thousand percent, I don't want to defend what I

So I think Raven and I could have.

Been in the outskirts and built like this little outsider alliance or something. I mean, even Kylan wasn't really embedded into the American group as much as like Jay was or Michelle I. Michelle and j were the top of the pyramid. Everybody knows that, and nobody tried to knock them off.

I don't whoo. At no point was that a conversation. Nobody wanted to say, you know what, let's just shoot shoot the snake in the hand.

It's just it's very it's very intimidating because if you miss it in the way that the chaos format was, you shoot somebody. And I learned this harmy with this off. You take a shot and we can talk about that too, about the thing.

But we definite to talk about You already know Corey, you already know who you're gonna let best live, right, But no, it's.

Like you knew if you'd take a big shot like I also, I wanted to say Rassio for a long time. The problem is Rossio is now hooking up in Maurice, who's super well connected. Olivia is his writer eyes super well connected. If you take a shot at that man at the house, who's capable of winning daily challenges, it's probably gonna win and vote you out. So like it was a very tight rope to be on and I just felt stuck a lot of the time. That I mean,

But yeah, I don't know what.

Else to say other than like, I personally do not

And so I hate the fact that like the one.

Reason that I go on these shows for is being questioned by my decisions and I will tell you guys that I'm like, I'm reflecting on me, like why did I make those decisions? And like the beauty of this show in general is you can come back over and over again and you can hopefully play a better game, and like, you know, I mean mistake. This is the second time I came from a weird dating show. It's even on TV anymore. I ever put in these situations where I have to do hard things and it's a

By that do you feel like this had how do you feel it was similar and different? Because I feel like we spoke about this on the Challenge Aftermath with Huey exactly right and where we saw this thing where Huey ultimately was like, hey, bro, we could have been aligned because we share this sort of mission right and wanting to be a representation both positively and support one another.

Yeah?

With me and Huey, like you know, we I came in like that's my brother. I will not say his name. And even when there was the deliberation when him and I were both the names up, I didn't.

Rally for Hueye.

I was like, you guys, make your decisions. I'm not going to tell you not to vote for me over Earth and then vote for Hugh.

Yeah.

Yeah. So I just sat back and I, you know, me and Huey had conversations and I said, if I have to go in because I didn't throw you under the bus, I'll go in because like that, that's a that's a ligne with Sanda, won't I will not cross ever again.

And I think when it comes.

To the Big Tea stuff is I felt like I had no options just because on day one I showed up and I was aligned with Michelle's group, and I wish I didn't put myself in that situation because then I'm telling you now, I would have.

Aligned with Big tea Melissa.

The problem was I knew if I did that, there's what twelve people and this other alliance that aren't over half the house that are gonna turn on me and it it. It was hard and that's part of me where you know, if I come back to this again, I am not doing that again. I may have a number one maybe one guy, one girl, whatever, people that I actually genuinely have known for years, but like I met Mariah Raven Nourice saw all these people I met the day I showed up, and I'm.

Supposed to be in this.

I'm supposed to be in this like untethered or this.

This alliance with these people. Yeah, they don't know me. I don't know them.

But did a self know that? Because he sure look hurt at that moment.

And then the Cory the way you were alike two weeks ago, I mean right, he was like crying like you were gonna be like the best man, Okay, child's god bothered. And then you were like I met you two weeks ago. I was like, damn, Corey.

That was cold. Yeah walk us through, Like had you so reponded a little bit or like yes.

We were so The thing that's so interesting is like we were all all no one's guards were up because we're all pretty new at this, so we all just became really close friends. Yeah, and it's hard to tell, I think, but a lot of us were very close.

We hung out. I mean, you know, you lived together, we lived like all of us.

I had never had a conversation with the sopht where I said I'm never gonna say your name, so I didn't expect him to have that expectation of me.

Interesting.

And I will also note he called me his best friend. I never said those words. I never said a soft as my best friend, not to say that. I don't think I was close to him. I'm not, like you know, but it's like I can go down the list of like I didn't want to say James because James and I are built similarly.

We're the largest people in the house.

And I figured, if I'm going to go to a final, I want someone there that is physically comparable to me, because his endurance might be the same as mine, or you know, probably not as good since I've seen his elimations.

But yeah, so Ran, that's that's more equal to me. A competitor. People like Arassio.

Emmanuel way have as much as me and run marathons and stuff for fun. So so not going to say him was not in my alliance. Colum was screwed up with Michelle kieran Is, so I wanted to say, who's put up with Raven? And then I was working with I don't think I do a good job explaining this, but there was a spy slies and allies alliance kind of and so that's why I didn't want to say

Mean, I feel like that block right there just explains your game play or yeah, you were connected to I'm.

Gonna need you to the web connected.

Because you look like you were working with yourself.

And at one point, I think it was Melissa who said, oh, Corey seems trustworthy, and I was like, to who at this point, to who, It's like, yes, you were, So I see though the tangent sh You're like, I don't want to piss off Raven. Raven's connected here, like because I think also because there were so many hookups this season. Oh my god, it seems like that made it that much more complicated because now you got to start kind of looking out for someone's boo too, and then they just do it.

I don't.

I don't have that luxury, right.

It seems like Mariah with James now now they have two sides spending both of them. Me Corey lay my single ass. I'm just sitting there watching a bunch of straight people hook up, and I'm like, Okay, what am

In that aspect.

It's like I got to sit there and watch a bunch of people hook up and get drunk and do these things, and I'm just like diddling in the corner, not seeing a like like I can't paul A Dick. There's no way what am I gonna do? What am I gonna flirt with? Where some people not say the hookups of the season were disingenuous, but like, it's also an advantage to the game, but people have done that in the past, but no, it was that decision most hard.

And also I'm not being like they forced. I feel like my.

Hand was forced some of the times because I was not able to play the game the same way as other people without getting like, everybody's being shifty and shady.

But why does it only matter when Corey does it?

You know, everybody's talking to big team Melissa, but oh, if Corey does it, we can't trust him.

And I'm just like, because it seemed like you were super bold with it, and it seemed like there was and I'm just telling you from a viewer standpoint. Obviously there's a lot that wasn't shown behind the scenes, so like, I totally get that, but it just seemed like you

Yes, that is a very bad defensive mechanism and thing that I have, and I'm.

More aware of it now than I. Let's just say that, but.

I think I would benefit a lot if I would just take a deep breath, wait a couple of seconds, let myself think, let my mind process before I before I speak. But that is that. That's unfortunately not how things have gone so far.

As to be fair in that environment. Sometimes you don't have time to say, let me take a stand back, because where do you go everywhere?

You don't really have yeah time, so yeah.

Yeah, but you can still digest and not pop off though or there's not me. We know, Davon, you work on that too, we know, we know, but you can still.

It can be done. It has been done. It can be done.

It is I don't like I guess said earlier.

I don't want to be dismissive of how I responded, because at the end of the day, I did hurt two people.

Yeah, deeply, very much.

Can I acknowledge that I apologize wholeheartedly to them?

Nothing personal.

Yeah, this is turning into a really refreshing yet messy, but refreshing episode.

I'm loving it.

All Right, we have to say a quo break, but we'll be right back for more refreshing messiness after this.

Okay, you guys, let's get back to the show.

Have you spoken to Big Ta or what have you guys said since So when we.

Left the house, we were fine, although I notice she followed me at some point after filming before airing, I reached out to her.

At that point we talked.

I was in a different space where I was I don't want to I was somewhat blaming other people for my actions like I did ultimately in some ways feel like I was forced to protect an alliance I wasn't going to protect me, and because of that, I back in the corner and made bad decisions which ended up hurting people. And so when the season first ended, I communicated that to Big T.

And I was like, I felt forced.

Time went past from there, and I told her, it's not fair for me to blame Michelle for the fact that.

I did this, because I'm my like, I am a like. I made the decisions myself.

I may have been put in a corner, but how I reacted was my own responsibility. It's my fault, so it's not fair to blame Michelle for that. So I took that back and I said Big t Like, I own this. It's it's unfair for me to blame them. You shouldn't be mad at them. That's the last time we've talked directly. And then, you know, last time I talked to Melissa was when she was saying that I

I just wish. I mean not to say it's her job to tell me things.

But like I would have found a way to prioritize her if I had known sooner, and it just sucked it. By the time I found out, she was already on the outside of things, and I felt like I didn't.

Have any choices, and k that's not true.

Maybe I did have choices and I should have just you know, had a stronger backbone and been like I'm going to stand all my business and you know that's that's there's so much to learn about myself.

Do you feel like yourself or you doubt yourself?

I feel like you doubt yourself Corey sometimes, like I think your ability both in the game and even just like when we get to see the the authentic sides of you, how charming and warm it is, and like how people might gravitate to that. Do you think you

So to be very honest with you, I'm a very I'm a very insecure person and I think it comes out.

In this environment and.

M yeah, so I think a lot of my decisions and things that I've done come from that. And it's it's yeah, it's just it is what it is. Like I hated, like I just I felt so alone this season and me trying to find people made me hurt other people Big Ta Melissa being those people, and it like I'm.

Not proud of it, you know.

And and this is like the thing about me is I I can own up to my things and I can be brutally honest to myself about myself. People may not necessarily understand why I do things, but I do things and I wish I'd sometimes handled them better. Yeah, but this is the honest truth is I was trying to find my group of people there and feeling like I was going to lose those people that I thought I was supposed to be.

Too or aligned with.

It just it it made me do things that weren't great. And the problem with me is I noticed, I realized a lot of the stuff, and hindsight, it takes me time to realize why.

I'm reacting the way I am to things.

But when I do eventually realize it, like that's why, like you see me, I apologize to people and like I'm not afraid of apologizing or admitting that I was wrong, Like that is one of my strengths.

Like I will admit, but I will, he we all will.

If you saw making mistakes, Corey, that means you're dead.

And that's a whole other concern because being means you're not alive.

Anymore everybody does.

And I appreciate you being vulnerable and owning up to all of this and sharing and even about the insecurity. We all have insecurities, and we've all hurt people intentionally or unintentionally. And I hope that if you take nothing away from this, it's knowing that moving forward, both in the challenge house in life, your tribe will never require you to act out of character man period. Your tribe

To the mess were those people. They weren't going to judge me, And.

You know what's so, but you know, let'son learn.

And I'm so.

Glad that you spoke about that as in you you feeling by yourself and trying to find your space.

Because I could see that. I could see that you were trying.

To find where you were, where you belong and because you were secure and where you belonged, you were doing things that were out of your character. Because even at the deliberation, after you did your whole spiel with Melissa and Big T and then I can't remember, I think it was Melissa had said something to you and then you kind of like or a big t and you stuck your tongue out at her while she was talking. And I was like, that was really forced and that was not It didn't seem.

Trying.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. See that's why I love the podcast because we were Now we get the backstory and we get a little bit more understanding. You know what I'm saying. You don't just look like this villain per se.

Whenever the bitchy side of Corey comes out, it comes out because I'm trying to hide something in myself from coming out, and it's it's you know, I didn't I felt like I'm going to fit in with the boys on the straight bros in a house I don't necessarily fit in with the women, even though that I get along with women well as a gay man. And so I just felt like I was foundering trying to find

And how to I? Like, what do I do when no one's fighting for me? Because no one was?

Sometimes you learn that you, a party of one is sometimes better than a fake group of what look as someone who never fully fitted in the challenge house.

It's okay.

Some people are meant to stand out, and that's okay, and that's your superpower. And I think if there's one thing beautiful about a Big T and Melissa, it's certainly not their social game and their late last minute bribes. Although I appreciate Big T pulling out the dollars to try and make something happen to save herself. But but they they they like are comfortably marked to the beat of their own drum.

And I think that's probably something I.

Admire, and I wish that I wish that I would always do that same thing.

Yeah, it's growl the mom and me wants to also step in and say, this is not an excuse for your behavior, and this does not this cannot be.

It doesn't absolve for it does not at all.

But but it's so good to hear why and now we know, well, you know what not to do, and others who may have been in that situation before, who may not know her, you know what I'm saying, Now they know what to do moving forward and not to have that you know, sort of disposition moving forward.

So I'm so glad that you're coming forth and you're being one raw and vulnerable with us.

That's what as to know better is to do better. So you're no better now.

And that's why I came into this thing.

I don't want to sit here and try to dismiss or act like everything I did was good. You know, at this point, I've had I don't know how many months to you know, reflect and think about these things. And you know, I we'll see you. We're big tea and Melissa and I go with our relationship with each other. I don't hold it against them whatsoever if they decide to just not ever be friends with me, because you know, I cannot respond or I can't control all people react

Yeah, you know, I don't.

Need to just be called all types of things by exchange on the internet. Right because of my mistakes trying to play a game to win money, and yes they were mistakes, but you know, let me learn, let me grow. I've seen people do much worse things on the show, you know so, And that's also I don't want to dismiss things by.

Saying that, yeah, yeah, I appreciate, because I was just thinking that as you said it, Corey, I was like, don't backslide.

It doesn't matter what people did, right, it doesn't matter.

What matters is me, the mistakes I made and how I grow from them. And you know, I will not make the mistakes again. Just like with Hue, I made the mistakes of being very short sighted and wanting to go into an elimination. And I said it then and I'll say it now. I'm very glad he beat me because it taught me a lesson.

This is also taught me that, which is great.

So you really, I will say, you owned up the things that you said back then with spieslies and allies about how you would approach it differently, with you, you kept to your word. You actually did do it this season, which is really cool and great to see.

So it's next time.

I'll do the same thing too. I will fight for those who are fighting for me. I will not make I will not didn't. I will not push aside people's humanity and their feelings just for my pursuit of this game.

Again, would you say that's the question?

You know, you know, you know it's actually for me and a soft for so since all this has gone down him and I Actually so, there's people I talked to, you know, a lot from the show afterwards, and he's one of them.

And I think, you know, he saw a best friend in me before I saw a best friend in him, and I do think now where we are today, I would consider him one of those because he is such a.

Very fiercely loyal person. And I think for me, I.

My guard is up all the time, and so somebody, if somebody like a Stoft comes in who is genuine and very open, very early to me something about that, doesn't trust it because I think it's not the experience I've had with people in my life. So I think that's why I diminished how a Softs were for our friendship at the time. But I do think if there is another season, just like I think asof is somebody that is in my list of this is this is

I don't see that happening again.

Yeah, which, I mean your your point was sort of valid. Let's talk a little bit about to like this season and this week. So what do you think went wrong with the other team during their challenge in this episode?

So you know, when we were deliberating before the challenge on what is our strategy, thankfully Jay called out, you have to get all the chains, and so the very first thing that we did, we had a lot of fast people on my side. We ignored everything except for the chains. I think there were seven chains available. We got six of them because that was our number one

We're like, no, we're taking this. I'm sorry, and we got it from him. It was so crazy.

That was insane. Great strategy. Awesome strategy because I mean they struggled when they came home, they struggled.

Oh my god, I know. Was that in comparison to what we saw?

It was so so.

Yeah, you see it a little bit afterwards. There was blood dripping, like half of his shirt, his jersey was blood. I think they had to replace it because they didn't even wash out like when they lotched ourselves. Oh my god, I thought he got a concussion maybe if we'd have to go to the hospital.

But they just gave him a little stitches, I think. And I mean he's a trooper because if that happened to me, a position.

Or something, right, don't right?

Kind of got you going, keep going, people going, Mama he is a trooper.

Yeah, do you think that earned him some goodwill in the house seeing as how, you know, we saw him sort of feel responsible for his team not doing well. Do you think him getting injured like that and still being a trooper, Like, I don't think.

So, honestly, you know, I think.

It's just so interesting because like we see the power dynamics in the house right now, and there's just one side that really has all the power and no matter what, whatever that side wants to do is probably gonna happen.

Uh, And so we know not towards the top of that list, right.

So, like, I don't know, it's it's it looks like I said, hindsight is whatever. But looking back, it's like, why didn't some of us who run the out skirts just band together? Because I can win daily challenges, Kyland Quinn daily challenges, Colleen Berna, Like we could win daily challenges. Why are we not this little unit in the corner somewhere doing things?

And yeah, we felt like we had to be loyal.

Yeah, and people like you know, like I'm still I'm friends with Michelle, so don't get me wrong.

But like, yeah, there's a reason she won survivor.

She's extremely sure, sure at.

Maneuvering social situations and manipulating things enough.

Where it's like she's not totally.

Lying or doing anything, but she's steering things subtlely in a direction. And like the problem is we all knew it but didn't do anything.

And she's only gotten better too as she's done.

I know that she's so challenges And.

I understand your point about if you fire shots in a house like this, where essentially she is taking top rank because there aren't more established vets in the house that if you fire shots at Michelle, you have to do it very smart and make sure you don't miss, because if you miss, that's a big And for.

Me, Michelle wasn't the one to get out. It was like I want, like, how can I become her number one? Okay, well Jay's her number one? How can we get rid of Jay somehow? But that's impeable And then you know, it's like that those are things that I acted on, but they were thoughts in my head. Is because I knew very well that no one was going to fight for me as hard as I was going to fight for that, which is why I was when the Michelle thing happened and she was upset that I set a.

Song that you want her. Yeah, That's when I realized she's not actually going to fight for me. She's going to.

Or not just her, but the Alliance is going to see me as a tool to get what they want.

Me me, me, me, Yeah, and once they're done with me as a tool.

Further, they're going to kick you out. Yeah, which is why I started talking to James a bit more. But then you know, it was it was a crap. It was crap for me. It was very hard to navigate this.

Yeah, you're still there, so you are still there.

And do you feel like it was harder for you to navigate that or harder for Raven to navigate away from that drink?

Melissa through that moment? What did you guys see that coming? Like? What walk us through? What that moment in the club was like?

So we saw them talking, you know, it starts kind of cool, and then voices are getting raised, and I think Melissa stands up first and I'm just looking like a hawk because literally all eyes were on them. Nobody else was talking because they were starting to escalate things. And for me, once I saw the drink thrown. I was like, I don't want to see someone get decubed. Like, honestly, I give my hats off to Raiven. Yeah somebody.

She handled that drink very well.

I you you guys have seen how I reacted on getting yelled at. Yeah, if you if you throw a drink at it, I don't know what I would have would.

I feel like my strat you would have been to try and be like, yes, you know a glass we heard it, I heard right right. It wasn't just the liquid in it. The glass broke, So then I would have been like that seems.

Very golf because it's the US golf. Yeah, because I.

Know we're on videos, so you know, I think what happened. So Melissa threw her drink right or threw the drink at Raven. Raven stood up threw her drink back at Melissa. But the glass slipped out of her hand, so it wasn't that she was throwing it like I'm angry.

It was like, no, I'm gonna get you back.

You just poured your wine on me and then it slipped out and it landed, and you know, yeah, and also Raven, I don't think she's that kind of person when she's gonna be like like Raven would be like I will beat you in the game.

I don't want need DQ. So that's not how Raven moves.

She didn't want to see Mosca DQ that way, but like I said, I don't know if I would have.

Probably you would want to see you get cut that way? You put what in my.

Edge to right, And then talking about his shirt from Ross Dressed for less Es, he said that he really loves his shirt and he had a bunch of wine on it.

In his shirt, which I love me some Ross, so I love that shouted them out.

That was hilarious.

I think.

So funny to me was the fact that he said dress for I've never heard anyone.

Yeah, it's so funny, so funny.

That he's accidentally funny too, Like that's just his personality. He's not like amping it up for a confessional like, oh, what can I say that's funny. It's like no, this man just talks and it's just like, yeah, he is somehow this is entertaining.

He's very entertaining. Let's get into.

Right by be yay, be okay, so casey the casey okay comes out like super beats and has very much so earned that title. Who did you want to see you go against Casey?

So Melissa, because Melissa has made a final.

And I think this is one of the things I said early on, is if you've been in a final, I don't want you there because you have experienced that I don't have. She'd be more prepared for what is it like to stay up overnight or go up a mountain in snow like she did, or whatever the final might be. So for me it was Melissa. I also knew she's a very strong competitor. I saw that it was a pole wrestled. There was a poll in the middle of the thing. Yeah, And I'm thinking.

Of my greater alliance.

I'm like, I don't want one of the women in my alliance to have to go against Melissa at some point and potentially lose. So if Casey can get the job done, and I saw the chance coming in as weapons to get rid of the people who are working with me and my team, and so it's like, how can I maximize this? And to me it was Melissa has experience that I don't have that no one here has on the women's side except for Olivia.

Olivia was working with me, So let's get rid of Melissa. But I think big T did a great job.

Yeah, big T is the people's champ of this season. I'm she's done an amazing job. And I love seeing Casey shout out big T like that at the end. And I felt like she was kind of targeted at the house too, if that makes sense, Like it's kind of being like put some respect on big T's name in a way.

I don't know, that's just how I do agree.

Like there's a reason why y'all have never seen me say I think some people have called her week, They've called her all types of things. I've never said those words. Like that is not how I feel about her at all. So I just want to double down and say that, like the reason why her and I ended up on the wrong side of a fence was not because I think she's weak. I think she is formidable. She went

Big eliminations and this one with Casey and the fact that it got to a one to one, I mean, yeah, and I actually feel like, I don't want to say she gave up on the last one, but there did seem to be a little bit of a resolve if that makes it, you know, on the last pole wrestle.

Of the three, Yeah, it felt a little like she kind.

Of I mean, I will say, like on my Spies of the Allies, I felt like, if I kept winning eliminations, I would just keep going down. Yes, And I feel like that thought probably crossed her mind. And you know, I don't blame her for that, because would I fight that hard if I've been in three eliminations and I just know I'm going to keep getting voted in until oh, like it's it is. It is demoralizing, But she still

And wiped out by Casey, which I think is impressive in and of itself. She had one of those who yeah, she should win one of them. It's just not best two out of three. So yeah, I think.

Casey did let big ta gas out like it was about strategy a little bit too. And round two Casey's like, I'm gonna hold on as much as I can. You're gonna get tired. And then round three, Casey's gonna give everything that she has lost.

Mm hmmm.

It was great to say, great to see it wasn't great? Was that y'all loft ten thousand dollars yet again?

So yeah, do you guys just not care about the money?

Because how because was it like, shn you walk me through the strategy of the overall group of this.

Peer I So I'll speak for me specifically. I wanted I wanted contenders to lose the champs m to be very honest, like, what what's the point of the price spot being anything? If I lose the final, you know, right? And so get numbers down that are against me, get numbers down that I think are strong, and sure if the price plot goes down to three hundred thousand dollars or.

Whatever it can get down to. That's still money I don't have right now.

But here's there's the question, Corey, here's the thought theory. Just a question, Okay, So yeah, back it up. You said that you've now I don't really I don't know if you realize this while you're in the house or you you've sort of realized it in hindsight. But you said that in your own alliance with like a Corey and a J or not a quarany J Michelle and J, that you're kind of at the bottom of the totem pole, right, even though you're putting them at like the top, particularly

So does is that really advantageous?

No, wasn't to be the.

Problem was It's like what was chaos was crazy because if I vote.

Someone down, I want them to go in.

I want Yeah, that was really that is a twist.

That is like I just didn't know how to have the correct amount of lever to take the shot. And then like, okay, so let's say we put down Jay who's standing next to him, maybe Rossio, maybe one of them goes home. Then one of them comes back no matter what, and then every other person aligned with them.

So like it.

Honestly, it was damn if you do, damned if you don't. Yeah, bab Yeah, And I don't know if the way I played was the right move, but at the time it made sense for me. Yeah, And at this point in the game, like, I'm just hoping that one the nomination thing I did right through them under the bus, I'm hoping that gives me some type of leverage with my aligned Do you feel.

Like it really is going to or that it's gonna make them because when I watch that, I understood what you were trying to do.

Yeah, I also like him look snaky, and I'm just like, oh, not even that.

The episode starts with him having a whole meeting and you are not fair. You are not in that meeting, so you kind of like they're like, yeah, now we really because doesn't it make you like if someone think about it, if you were just watching it back and again.

I know it was real time and it's different, but.

I'm curious on your like tape because I get what you were trying to do and pivot in that moment and it was quick thing. But you showing though that you can be so like unlike sneaky right to people who otherwise aren't seen as villains in the house maybe by Raven, Melissa seems villain, which is fair, but other than that, you know what I mean, Like Big T isn't seen as like evil, so like.

Does that.

Right?

So like does that make even though you're doing it for your alliance?

I just feel like they would look at you and go, okay, he looks a little you know, like I do feel like I trust him or something right.

Because if I would do it to them.

Yeah, kind of.

I didn't think that far ahead. I think I think Michelle.

Michelle told me that my name was the one up I think thirty seconds before walking in the nominations, and I was like, what can I do?

What type like, how can.

I if there's any chance that this somehow does not affect me for the rest of this game?

What can I potentially do?

And for me, it was I'm gonna put the line in the sands so far that my alliance knows I have nowhere else to turn now, and they basically own me.

And that was me, Like I already felt that way.

But now it was like, I'm just gonna make that feel like that way even more so they feel like I'm stuck. They have Corey get rid of other people because Corey at least now is no.

Real yeah right, which wasn't necessarily the case. I was still being sneaky, just not as obvious, you know, and you know what sucks. I feel like I showed too much of my cards this season because now if there's but you know what, will say it's a learning process.

But I think too many people play for five seasons in advance, and it makes a show boring.

And I'm not.

Yeah, like everybody is afraid to make moves because they know season forty's and forty one.

He's in forty two.

But it's like, so they don't take power moves, they don't take that's fair.

I showed all my cards. Yeah, I don't know what if.

I never do the challenge again, whether it's I mean, I have a full career. I'm a video game producer, like I can't necessarily always be gone for all I know, this might be my last time doing the show, and I gave it all my god, and if it shows, you know, if I can show I'm snaky, yeah, it's.

You know, I don't know.

Like I I felt like I would have more time on Spy Size and Allies to make moves and do things. I lasted four episodes, yeah, and then I was supposed to be on Writered Eyes and then I wasn't on Rider Eyes. I fell through my fingers and it was like, holy crap, if this is the last chance I get, I just gotta do, you know, And and I will say, you know, you know, we get our weekly phone calls with people.

I called my mom every week and she said, she said, Corey, if you have to be a bad person, do it. It's a lot of money. And so I had her in my.

Ear, you know, not mama.

Let if I have the support of my mom.

Like, but but I do think I still all the things that I still think I went a little too farm a big team Melissa. But I'm still not like because I hurt them as people and in terms of how I make the game moves and like, you know, I'm not the only one who's in multiple alliances or whatever. Like that's something that I think if you have to do, you have to do, and it can be smart if done the right way.

I didn't do it the right way, So let me and just never get up your soul for anyone like that, Carol. Remember your group won't make you act out of character. And that's not the multiple alliance thing, because I agree. I think almost everyone to a degree has to like have crossover alliances at the point, but just that they won't ever if you feel like you have to prove to them that much, then they may not even be worth.

That might not be you too.

But let me tell you something that I learned, because I feel like you are going to go back, so let me just you know, I've been doing this competition thing since twenty fifteen, almost every year i've been on the show. Okay, yeah, one thing that I learn it's okay, I'm my mental stability is off the chart.

Okay.

What I do want to say to you is do your dirt, but tell us the truth and the confessionals so we.

As the audience can follow.

You.

Don't tell the people tell us and you know, and your your number one? You know, well, but your number one.

You The thought about that.

And the confessionals though, is be careful because sometimes those interviewers will then ask questions to other people in that you said, so they'll be like, well, how would you feel if Corey said.

Let's be be I remember one day actually, the day of this nomination think where I did the big Teamlissa thing. I was sitting by the pool by myself, like eating outside or something, and then a cameraman just comes up and films me sitting there, and I'm like, who's talking exactly? Why are you looking sad and alone?

I know something's going on.

So like I already kind of like, what can we expect Corey from without giving away any spoilers, what are some things or some people we should keep our eye on, you know? In the in the next episode, we see like a soft seems like he pops off at Kylin.

I don't know what's happening there. Can't give us some tea what should we expect, you know?

So one, I'm not the only confrontational guy in the house.

As you see a soft well one him and I went at it and we see him and Kylon going at it a bit. I think a sof is like me or if he's not happy about something, he's gonna talk about it and probably talk about it loudly.

I think that's gonna happen. I think we'll start to seem more like Nuri.

This is very smart and although you know, Michelle's kind of you know, the head of the snake, but Maurice is up there, but you won't like, but she's up there, you know she's.

Yeah, she's right there.

And I think getting just been the season with her and learn more about her and just she's very smart. She's also a fan of the Challenge like me, and so she's seen a bunch of seasons. She knows what she's doing. Yeah, I think her breakout moments are coming ahead, and I think it's gonna be a lot more mistakes being made by people like you know.

I think the beauty of this season.

Is that we're all new and that we're making the mistakes that maybe some of the season's vets don't make anymore because they've been burned, or they burned people, or they've been caught doing stuff. I know that now that I've kind of made my mistakes on this season, but.

There's other people.

I think we're gonna end up in that hot seat too, And it's a lot of fun because you know, we don't see Tory and Jordan and Bananas making the same type of social mistakes that we're all making the season. To me, as a if you were in a fan, it's refreshing to see that because it's been a very

You know, like who do they pick out?

Hopefully not me? Right, but you know, it's like what's going to happen? And yeah, get excited for the unexpected and also more messy mistakes and the more things that you can probably say, why the hell do these people do that? Yeah?

Okay, do you anticipate that you'll get the sit Down of the Week award?

Any like?

Should we just be prepared that there's gonna be and you don't tell what it is, but that We're going to be assigning you that award in future episodes this season.

Ah, you know what, probably, you know, I'm just gonna say probably, And you know, I'll own it, you know, love.

That you own it, Love that you own it.

Hopefully season forty, season forty one, whatever other season I come back in, hopefully.

There's less of those awards for me.

Yeah, you know, but I but what's done is done with this.

But owning it and growth and doing better is literally the best that you can do. I hope that you and Big T and Melissa can men in some way.

Really so too, because they genuinely are good people, and they were there for me more than I wish my alliance was there for me at times, like as a as a person, there for me, you know, And that's the part that I and they shown, the loss that I hurt people that were loyal and also cared about me, cared about me deeper than people that I was aligned with.

But I do own up to it. Yeah, And you're you're working to be better.

For those who want to continue to follow your growth journey on social media, where can they follow you?

I Am Corey lay on Everything c O R E.

Y l a y Instagram, Twitter, I have a TikTok, but I don't post on it.

You can still follow me there because I like numbers. I like followers.

But really I post on Instagram a I posted on Twitter a lot. I like to shoot the ship with challenge fans, and I think it's a lot of fun being on Twitter.

So that's like the one. If you want to just tell me things, tell me I'm doing things wrong too.

I need to learn, like if I come back and do things better, tell me how I did it wrong, but do it in a somewhat nice way.

Yeah, and I yeah, now tell me.

And I said, like, Corey, you could have done this better, but we don't absolutely hate you.

Yeah you know, yeah, well, Corey, there are things that you could have done better, but day and I definitely don't hate you at all.

And I'm so glad we got to see.

This is the Corey I knew from the drinks and the Corey that I've spent time with, and it's wonderful to see that it is indeed still there. Really do appreciate you a not being scourreed to come on the podcast, because sometimes people are.

And I know that you knew that.

Was intimidated because I've never met Davon, and I was like, I know she's not happy with me, but I'm glad to have the open, honest conversation and you know, I'll answer some questions and you know, so I appreciate you, Davon.

Thank you for calling me on my ship, holding.

Me accountable and not being nasty about it, because there are something online who are very nasty about it, but you've always been like, I don't understand this, so I don't like this, but it's never coming for a place where you're like actually being.

Mean or being hurtful.

And I one thousand percent appreciate that so much because there are it's just not always that way. And thank you for trying to defend me as much as you could, even my actions weren't always defendable.

I appreciate it.

I wasn't mad at you, Corey. I was just disappointed, Like it's.

A reason, it's gotta be a reason.

I knew I had actually predicted this when Day and I were talking last week, that it was that it seemed like an insecurity and an in thought authenticity thing, and that you were trying to just fit into a group you're trying to force you know, you are a star, and you were trying to force yourself into a square

And I and yeah, hopefully you guys.

Can come back, all three of you stronger and better than ever in future seasons too, and just run like you guys run stuff that would be wonderful to see.

But thank you again for coming. Sending you big hugs.

You still may get a signed the sit down of the week, but just no, but no, sending.

You big hugs.

And it is always entertaining and watching you and you're right, sometimes people got to make controversial moves to make it interesting, and you definitely have made it interesting this season.

So it's always wonderful having you be a part of the challenge.

Corey, awesome, thank you so much. It was a pleasure.

You're well come.

Oh gosh, wow, all right, you know what we have been waiting for that interview. I feel like all season. Granted, the whole season's not here yet, but but I'm glad that we've made it happen. And I really appreciate the honesty. I so appreciate the honesty. And look, some people aren't gona agree with it, but but he gave us a lot to think about and he owned up to a lot. So now all we can do is give him space to see if he's going to do better.

What do you think, Day?

I agree? I agree.

You know, when somebody comes forth and takes accountability, let them show you that they, you know, stand on what the which stand on their business. Let's let them show you that. So give them the opportunity to do that. Give people grace to show that they can change.

M h.

We're also gonna get people grace to do. What else?

Day to follow me on the socials.

Starting with her YouTube channel. I'm kidding, let's not start there.

Oh let's not start there. Oh give me grace, let's not start there.

I want you to follow me at on Twitter at Dave Davon Underscore. You can also follow me on Instagram at Davon Diane Underscore. Where can the people find you? Because you know you all over. You got the website, you got the everything. Where can they find me.

In a lot of places?

That's true, Uh, for someone who doesn't go outside much, I'm outside a lot. Online. You can go to devinsimone dot com. That's Devin with the y simone with an eyes scroll at the bottom. You'll see my socials there. If you're single, hit the matchmaking button that should be

I'm not that's right.

I want to We want to thank you guys so much for joining us for yet another episode of MTV's Official Challenge Podcast. And remember, if you liked this episode, rate and review us on Spotify or Apple Podcasts and tell a friend to tell another friend to tell another friend and they Grandmama afterday.

Amen, And then catch new episodes of the Challenge Battle for a New Champion on MTV.

Yes, and we will see you back here right after for a brand new episode of EMPTV these official Challenge

Podcast Just stay away from the chains.