Get Rich or Ride or Die Tryin’ w/ Michele & Jay

episode was very much so are you? It was you? There were some of me in there. I think I spy with my eye that I was there. Um, And you know I was very upset. Um. I didn't know if I was picked because we were second or picked because we hadn't we didn't tell them where we stood. Um. And I was like, as far as I know, I'm standing right in front of you, so uh, the where we stood is very big brother and Survivor, It's okay, So where do you stand? Where's your head at in

the game? Where do you stand? Those are? Those are? But there are questions and go against your game though, Like if if I were. If I'm to tell you where my head is at, then I'm messing up my own game right there, Like some shit's better left unsaid. I could tell you anything, ran my head is with you right now, right and you know what, that's what you should have said that. Yeah, But the crazy thing

is I don't live like that. Yeah, and I'm with a partner who you know, Jordan is just going to do right, So there is no we don't beg we don't kiss ass and maybe that's going to be to our detriment this season. But that interrogation scene, let me tell you something. It was longer. We cried a little bit. And what I didn't understand was when you made the statement and you said, the only person I made a

promise too is my best friend Tory. At that point, I feel like Antenna should have went off and been like, Okay, maybe I can come in with you because you only obligated to one person, so let me try to work something out with you to see if we can work together. I had never had one conversation and you saw me like I pointed out the Nanny and Johnny thing, which I felt like, you know, I told them I'm like, let's not make this into a bigger deal. I'm just

using them as an example. Yeah, because I didn't know there was a deal with Torrian Devon. Now, how does that work because that's your best friend. They never told me. Yeah, but Devin is the politician of the group, got you. See. The thing is like, I'm never going to put like you have to care about self too. Yeah, there's self preservation there. So if they made a deal that has nothing to do with me, then tor and Devin don't really need to tell me anything longus. They look just

keep me safe, that's all I care about. Yes, when they were yes, when you're in power, or you can keep me safe. But I was like, how the hell did they weasel their way out of that? Wow? And that's when I started to ask questions like, so, Devin, what are you doing, Tory, what are you doing? Yeah? Did you get answer to the questions? Yes, So let's talk about people. Was like, yeah, I know, that's right. So these friendships, so many friendships are up and down

and in the air. In this episode, we have you and Ronica, and then we have this randomness of Michelle and Laurel, and then Michelle and Nannie. But then there's also the Jay turning his back on Jack, turning his back on Jack back back? What was that about? Like that that and you could see the hurt in his face? Do you think that was an actor? Do you think he genuinely was hurt? He called him a rat motherfuck. I mean he said all of the things. Now I'm

talking about Jay. Do you think Joe hurt? Why would Jay be hurt because he had to throw his friend? Did he have to? I mean, I'm saying that's what I'm saying. Do you think it was real? Like I feel like on the other side, like, yes, it sucks to throw people in, but if you knew you were going to be that hurt, then you could have fixed another person. Well, he was acting like he couldn't back down to Michelle like she well she did say and whatever episode that was, she needed him to sit there,

shut up, and stay on his leash. So maybe that's what happened. I don't know. That's why it's hard with these partners, because you're going to find somebody that you like more, and that's why the game is so it can get so messy, Yeah, because you can't please both and I'm always going to be on the same page. It's very rare that you will. So it's easier to be like, hey, partner, you can have the rains, but with those rains, with those power, with the power, then

everything comes crashing down on you. Did you and Jordan have a pretty level headed throughout the game? Were you two pretty well? He said to me, He was like, you are leader? I said absolutely, not that it's not. I mean, yes, but no. But I also knew that Jordan and I play a very similar game, like I have too much pride to beg. Yeah, and I also feel like whatever's going to happen in this house, that's

going to happen, whether I BEG or not. These people, if they want to put me in, they're going to put me in. Yeah. If they don't want it, Yes, they don't want to see Jordan in the final regardless of what I could do. Yeah, they are going to try whatever to get him out. Yeah, any excuse they can find. And you too, don't downplay yourself. They try to put you out too, of course, And of course, but it's like, well, who's gonna do that? So it you know, it's it takes a lot because what one

partner doesn't have the other partner does have. Yeah, and you know that it's really hard to find, you know, a pair that's equally matched, that thinks the same way about the game, because, as you'll find out in later on in this episode, like you're playing two games simultaneously, short game that's challenge a challenge, and the long game

getting to that final. Yeah. And if you don't play the game within the game, that's why I don't make promises, because they can flip the game within the game, then you will find yourself out of it. Oh wait, well, one of my favorite games is the game that we play on this podcast and that is called the gold Star and the time Out Game. So my question for you is in this week's episode, who has your gold Star?

And I think I already know who going in a time match out not just time out but also with a dunks cap, Like I already know what's going down. There are a couple actually timeouts for people, But who

got a gold Star? I want to give my gold star to Kim because you know what if you would have been there and seen like people were really struggling and he came out of nowhere like like his boat had turned into a gazelle, just like floating and running through I mean, there's so many different things you could compare him to, but he was like this beautiful blonde viking in a boat, just going. And what you don't get to see is Kim's Like he was so such a crush on him. He was so kind, and he

was so no he was so genuine, he was so funny. Yeah, and I don't guess you don't get to see all of that, And I wish they would have shown their personalities a little bit more. I have two gold stars, so my first gold star goes to Bessie, and I know that he running, but I love the way he was such a teammate to Mariah in this episode, Like even though she was doing what she was supposed to be doing with that road at all, he still encouraged her and motivated her. And he even said, like, yo,

like I just want you. I want her to stay on a high, I want her to stay confident. I want to keep her up there. And even if he may have been doing it for self, because it kind of sounded like a little bit, but I still feel like it was a great deed to do and it made her feel like, oh, he really has my back, you know what I'm saying. So I thought that was

really really good. My other Gostar goes to Jordan. My gostar goes to Jordan because the perseverance is out of this world, like the way that he is so determined to show. I can't be stopped, Like y'all keep throwing these roadblocks in me, but I can't be stopped. And he never goes into this victim mindset of Ike's. I can and I will. That's it. He became a he was He was Mike Can who the whole time we're here. I mean, he was Mike Can. When I said I

literally I can't. He shut that down so fast because I don't think he knows what that word it is. Wow. He was like, you can't look at you know what I mean, Like I can do it? Why can't you? And I think that that is such an amazing way to look at things and to move through life. Yeah it really is. Yeah, I love that. So who was we timeout time out in a jam? Michelle? You could both sit there together. Damn it. Why are you putting them in a corner? Because I don't know where they stand.

You don't know where they're heading. I don't know where the heads are right now, so I just gonna put them in the corner together. It was a I mean, I was so I was very blindsided by that. UM I thought maybe a nod tip of the hat. However, I was made aware that I probably wasn't going to go I wasn't going to be direct vote. So at least I got that. But they're still they're still in time out. Damn it. Well my timeout goes to Michelle

alone for lack of a backbone. First of all, the conversation with Laurel irritated my soul because Laurel kept testing the waters. First of all, you tested me in this interrogation by paying me dust. She paid Michelle dust. She everr nothing but face, That's it. And then when she finally did have a one on one conversation with her, um Laurel kept asking her, what is the problem? What do you want from me? What do you need? What don't you get? What am I doing wrong? What questions

do I need to answer? What? She kept asking her, and Michelle just kept sitting there looking at her like a deer can headlights and I'm like, girl, this is the time. Tell her the root of the problem, tell her your issue, tell her, tell her what tell her you all in a confession of you know, Laurel makes me feel like this and I feel like that. Tell her that she's opening the door for you to say it. And she said nothing. Yeah, I mean yeah. But Laurel was like, I'm mad. That's how I feel like. You

put me in elimination. Why are we talking about what could have happened before that? Like she said, where do you stand? I stand in eliminations, which I thought was very real. So yeah, and then the whole situation with

Nannie and Bananas. I love them both, but reciprocity is for real, like good ony, like if they expected, I mean, for them to get saved over like me and Jordan or Casey and Kenny, Like you have so many people that the thing that Michelle and Jay do have going for them is that they have the ability to win challenges together. Yeah, that in and of itself will lend

some safety to other players in the game. However, there are people like Laurel, there are people like Johnny, there are people like there are all of these people that have played this game for a long time, that are really good, that have one, that are intimidating, that are kind of masterminds at this game. Yeah, and the people with experience usually come out on top. Yeah, so it's going to be interesting how you know, saving your homies and that tomies in quotes. Yeah, how that's going to

be in their favor. And yeah, because they had my girl, Michelle, she was not nos crying a few weeks ago, just snot nos crying, just for Nanny to be like, Okay, but I gotta do it. So you want some tissue or that you's gonna happen, Well, we have an incredible episode for you today. It gets a little spicy here on the podcast with Jay and Michelle. Stay tuned and you will see why. Bring some water or milk. Yeah, water doesn't help when she gets hot. Milk, Bring bread

or some mustard mustard, that's it, bring mustard. All right, So let's get right into this episode. My CBS people are here with us today. I am super excited that they decided to come and hang out with us. Yes, Jay and Michelle, welcome to the podcast. What's that? Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. I'm glad you're here. What's going on, Michelle? How you's gonna girl? This is my first time meeting you. Oh kay fan, So I am so hugged that you're here. Yeah, but

they will not hesitate to throw you in here. Get Jay ever threw me into an elimination, it would be a war, a war. I mean, we're just gonna get right into that real quick. I just have a question because what you don't see some little back you know, behind the scenes stuff, is the conversation We had an interrogation where you guys seemed like you're really upset about picking Jordan and I, but you easily just said yeah, Jordan and that's fine. She was like, I don't care

if yeah, I don't care, that's fine. You don't ever threw anybody in Do you want to roll it back? Real? But you also don't see is the fact there was a lot of people that we basically had to like eliminate as option. You really it was like, I'm protecting this person. Protecting should have dwindled that one down we did. That's where it gets problematic, because that's why I think Jordan and I only had one one pair. There's only so far you can go. So your whole thing was like, well,

what can you do for me? Well, I don't know where I stand. If you don't have those conversations with people, you're not gonna get anywhere. No. I think you got it all wrong though, because I don't. I don't I watch the same episode. Yeah, but you don't know my game. Okay, so tell us your game, Jay. So what happened was is Michelle had all her people. I had all my people.

You're throwing down half the house every single time, so regardless of it is it's eight people, you're throwing down eight people every time, so they're only sixteen people in the house pretty much. How many people were up up on the stage that went on my side. I'm just I'm just. You barely ever talked to us about game. You were only with Tori most of the time. You

never really told anybody what you were doing. And then on top of that, you even said in this in the episode yourself, I should probably have more talks with people, because even Veronica doesn't even know where you're at, and she's sitting there, Like the conversations I had, they didn't film. I had a whole conversation with Kim, telling him I couldn't pick him because that's Kim. I'm talking about me and Michelle, the people that are in power, right. But

I already had talked to you. Why I talked to Michelle? You never talked to me. You never told me that you and I were on the same alliance. You never well, we weren't on the same alliance because you picked your own alliance. You were like the masters here. So here's the thing that I want to know. Because you guys can literally go back back and forths hit for ted your word question, I don't mind go ahead after question. No. So Jordan, as you knew, was close to Nelson and

you were working with Nelson. Had no idea, But I had no idea. I literally found that out after aren't and Nelson friends like outside? He never talked to you about it. That's what I did not know any of Nelson's alliance. Who's the only one that I found out was Devin and me. That's it. I had no idea about Jordan. That was less. They are working with the information that we're given. And if nobody is giving us information when we come into power, how the how are

we supposed to know what to do. We're working by our gut reaction and by conversations that people have pulled us to the side to have. Like Anissa, you know, you know, I adore you, like bro I would go out with you and Philly all the fucking time. I

would like truly. But when it comes down to game, if you're not pulling me aside and telling me, hey, let's run this game together, if you're not telling me that, then I assume you're having those conversations with other people and you have a different plan in place for yourself. Like you come in with so much experience, but you'll come in with so many relationships and where they're not alliances. And I think people confuse relationships and alliance. So can

I ask a question? Can I ask a question? Because Michelle, I keep hearing you saying no one ever came to you, no one ever came to you. Did you go out to anybody? Yeah? Absolutely, I there were people who I've had Obviously you can see I'm talking to Amber. I obviously have talked to Olivia before. I know where certain people's heads are at. I'm talking about a Yeah, I mean I'm working with Devon and Tory. They have a

deal made with them already. So like, there are people that I've had those conversations, but there's people who I mean, you saw us not throw up Nanni and Bananas. But I had a conversation with Nannie about what I wanted, that I wanted to work together prior to this, So like I went out of my way to try to have some of those conversations. And I'm sorry that I

didn't have it with you before. But at the time you told me Nannie came up to you right before and said, we won't throw you, We'll throw you a bone, and you said this verbatim. She came up to you right when we got off the bus to walk back into the house. And if you guys had won the challenge, don't put us in. The conversation that I had with

Nanni happened right after Nanni and Bananas. One happened in the club and I was like, dam I was hurt that you threw me in without ever having a conversation to me, I do want to work with These are the same things. Do you know what I do? I have a question because the Twitter streets were very confused as to what the relationship is between you and Nannie, and why were you so emotional that you were crying? Right,

what's the deal with that? Well, in general, I mean you could see from this episode, I'm not the most mentally stable at this point in the game. I am kind of like, you know, I feel things really hard. I don't want to hurt people. I don't like getting hurt either, So it's not necessarily the easiest game for me to play. I can't just shut off my emotions like that. And like, the thing about Nannie is that last season I had an incident going on with my

brother when we were quarantined. She was quarantined next to me, and I didn't have my phone, I had nobody to turn to, and I was really really wondering why the hell I was going on the challenge, and she helped me through a lot of that. Then all this stuff happened with her mother, and like I felt this kinship of being like I was there last season right after going through an extreme tragedy. I understand where you're coming from,

and like that was my relationship. I thought that, you know, Like, I mean, I hated what she was going through and I wanted to protect her because I just felt bad and I saw myself in her and like that's probably not the best way to play a game. I get that, but like I felt a kinship to her. I think, so, how did it feel when to see that she didn't feel it, bag because she threw you in, so it wasn't resurprise me and she threw me in and then we had a conversation in the club and she felt

really really bad about it. She came to me, and maybe that was just blowing smoke, but she was like, I'm not going to put you in his main boat. I regret not having a conversation into earlier because I was saying at that point I wanted to be working with that side of the house. Like I know, we're seeing Jay talking to you know, talking about rookie rookie things and all of that. But for me, I wanted to work with the people who I liked and who I could see being like a hybrid model going into

the rest of the game. And that was what I was trying to do. Honestly, That's what I'm trying to understand. Because whatever the conversation not he had with you after she threw you in, it was strong enough for you one to save her and to go against your partner, and how strong he felt about that team being a liar.

So I just wanted to know was it worth it, Like, did you really believe in your heart that disregard with my partner saying my ride to die, the one person in this house who really does have my back, I'm gonna go against him for this person who has shown me to my face this season, not in past season's, not before, but this season that they're not really checking

for me like that. So to be fair, like I don't really I didn't really necessarily feel like I was going against Jay by making this move, Like me and Jay have conversations all the time, like we are constantly checking in on each other, like how are you doing, how are you feeling, how are you feeling about this? I would if Jay was really really feeling a certain type of way, I would respect that, and he does the exact same for me. And so no, I don't feel like I was going against Jay by any means.

But the path that I saw forward in the game at the time was that I really felt like doing an IOU in this situation. But face on what she told me was strong enough for me to make the decisions that I made. Whether or not that's the right decision. Obviously, we're gonna see how it plays out. But the truth is, like, this is my second time play in this fucking game, Like I am fucking learning. We all make mistakes, we all I mean, listen, I don't I don't know. Was

it the right move? Was it not? I'm not fucking sure, but I'm just doing my damn best at this point, and I felt right to un moment it was the right move. That's what she wanted to do. Let it go. Yeah, Jay, how did that make you feel? Because we saw it on your face, how much it affected you to have to throw in one of your closest friends in the house. We saw that that was very visible. So how did that make you feel? That she was very adamant about this is not we're not doing that. This is what

we're gonna do. You know when Michelle, she questioned, she she borrowed up to me and she asked, like, hey, I want to say, Nannie, like they're gonna throw us a bone, They're gonna have us an iou or whatever. And the fact that I had to throw in back, like I met Jack in the show, so it's not like I have a huge relationship with Jack. I never knew him before I met him started talking to him like a week into the show and really getting to know him. So we knew each other from the show

right off for it. Then, Michelle has had a relationship with Nannie for I don't even know how long. All the things that she told me that she had to deal with with her mother, with Nannie's mother and Michelle's like brother and all that going on, Like I know what it's like that, you know, family health issues and problems like that, and also like when someone passes, like that's just respect. You love each other. You love each other.

That's that is what it is. And also it's it's early in the game, so you can make a power move that doesn't need to be as extremely powerful yet because I didn't see any of those teams no offense, Anissa, but I didn't see any of those teams beating Bananas and I. They're a great team. They were placed in top in everything. The moment they show up, they win their first daily challenge. You just saw that up. Wait

did they really? Because they were on a swimming they were on like a gone but no one's going to beat me in a swimming challenge, Like no, he's not

funny and she's not. I'm just saying there were teams that they were the best team out there, and there were other teams that were with Yeah, but I didn't so But this this is what I brought up to you on the show, right, And I said it, it's hard to with these io you and whatever you want to base things on, to expect a team to win all of the time, to help expect to assume, to assume that this team I'm talking to Michelle too, with the IOU is going to help you in the future

before they help other people that they've known forever. Is kind of like I would take it with a grain of salt, you know what I mean. You've only done two shows that you don't have the experience that some of us do that have played for a long time. Why not try and work with the people that do have experience instead of starting a rookie alliance or working with all majority rookies. I work the majority rookies. I said from the jump that I was trying to do

a hybrid model. I told you that I made a deal with right, I was trying to build a relationship with Nannie. I missed, but I misspoken. I've miss spoken that you're working with Nelson and Maurice, we're working with Bessie and Mariah were in the middle of it. Yeah, that's that's what Jay said in the previous episode. He said, you work with Nannie and the Vets, and he was

down here work in the rookies. And that's something that I wanted to ask you to, Jay, because you kind of had this like Robin Hood mentality, steal from the vents and give to the rookies. Like you kind of had that mentality coming into this season. But this is your third season, so why didn't you consider yourself a VET because I was never allowed Like my first season, I didn't even play the challenge. It was literally Jay played elimination my entire first seas. You know, that's where

the champs are built. Though Jack, I know that I love I'm not upset with it. It gave me my name. I got to go against ct I got to go against the greats. I got to do my ship, which is awesome. So I'm not upset with it. But coming into this season, you know, you got to build both sides because you it's it's it's fucking weird. It's like literally weird because some vets will let you in, some

vets won't. Other vets have betrayed you. Other vets will talk to you, but then they talk shit behind your back. So it's everywhere, so you don't know what's going on with that. Every rookie that comes in is literally looking for a home. That's what I did my first season, That's what I did my second season. I was like, where can I go? What can I do? So if I'm literally standing there and I'm like, you know what,

this is my third time. I don't have any too many like big time ties to any of these vets. Yet I can pull in some rookies and make a home for them and also do my thing, then why not? So yeah, So then Michelle pulling up with like, you know, hey, if we don't send down Bananas and Nanty this time, Nanie is gonna throw us a bone. And you know what, I've had three seasons counting this one with Bananas that well,

the second one I didn't have. But the first season with Bananas immediately threw me in this season immediately threw me in and I'm like, I'm so fucking tired of this guy just like having this beef with me. I don't understand why he's so obsessed with me, but I'm so tired of this stupid beef that doesn't even exist in my mind? So why not just like try to throw a bone and be like, dude, I don't fucking

care here, I'm gonna squash it, and it's done. And now maybe we could start off clean and whatever happens happens. But at the end of the day, too, like, I know that shit's never gonna change. I'm not a fucking idiot. So, but I didn't see any of the other teams beating bananas and Nannie. Now, what do you What do you think Johnny's issue is with you? I don't know, he's just obsessed with how ridiculously good looking I am. But speaking of beef, I think we should talk about the

beef that was thoroughly in this episode. Okay, cooked and fried and chopped and made. Okay, what's going on with you and Laurel Michelle? What is the root of this issue? What is the root? Okay, so I had it on good authority that she went to somebody and had said that she was not fucking with me in the Gamian Okay, And I knew that she had alliances with literally everybody else. I mean she was working with um uh Nanni and Bananas, she was working with with Olivia Rassio, Hamber and Chauncey

wanted to protect her every single person. If I mentioned Laurel to them, They're like, oh no, no, don't growl Laurelan, because Laurel is with us. And I was like, if Laurel is with everybody, then she's not with me. And like the reality is you could see like she took a chute with like she just had an attitude. We didn't connect, We didn't vibe and like I do go, I'm like who I'm vibing with? And like I just

didn't fuck with it. I didn't like the energy and like I don't know, I just wasn't an into it. You know. We don't go on the show to like be best friends. Not everyone's gonna like everyone, but I do feel like there is a level of respect. It's like, god, damn, why are you connected to Jack? Because like I made friends with Jack, and I love Jack in the house. I love Jack. I haven't got to talk to Jack out of the house, but he's a really good dude.

And the fact that they were tied together sucked because I was trying to make an alliance. But I mean, if if only half of our team Rider die team me, he's trying to make an alliance with them, and then the other half is like absolutely untrustworthy of the other person, of the other half of the team, I'm like, what the fuck do I do. I'm protecting my alliances already. I'm protecting the people that I already told me that they're gonna align with me. So I can't save just

a new friend. Sorry, we're playing for a million dollars, but I just met you. And also my rider dies literally telling me all this shit that like, just don't go with Lord. I trusted Laurel too, I got I got along with both of them. But you're not in my alliance. You're not in my alliance, and you could be my friend, but unless you tell me, like, hey, I got you one hundred percent, then I don't have you one hundred percent. And unless I tell you that as well, then it is what it is. It's a game.

Does this with the whole Jack and Laurel thing reminds you of the you and Teresa. Uh, you know you could see it like that, But with Teresa, I had no idea what Teresa was doing behind my back, especially with Durrell, Like, I had no clue on that on Earth and like even you, you came up to me and you were like, you know, oh, Jay, I don't know what's going on today, and you voted me in. And to this day, I was like, why the fuck would you go against me instead of just asking me

what's going on? Because I had no clue, but no one believed me. I mean, it's my second season, my first season, my votes didn't matter. You're putting me in the sand is way different. I mean it's the same shoe you would have you had majority vote anyway. But that's besides. Yeah, but you're you're still my friend. I wouldn't never do that to you. So, yeah, you did it first, so what's the problem. Yeah, but me putting you in didn't say, like, I wasn't the reason that

you went in the sand. If I whether I voted for you or not, you were part of the protect the rest of my game where people are gonna throw you in whatever you want to believe were I just feel like it's it makes you but hurt because when

you think somebody's your friend they say your name, it sucks. Yeah, especially I think that's when it comes down to say, I'm never gonna say your name, Jay, And then you come up to me in the double Agent's house and say I didn't vote for you, and then I watch it back and see it I never said it, didn't vote for you. I just didn't talk to you about it. I avoided your friends. Didn't you just say that we

were friends. I just said, that's why people get butt hurt. Okay, I want to lift the spirits of this episode just a little bit. Just yeah, I'm good. Spirits just a little bit, um, Jay, it was so much love and lust that was going on on the season so far. I just want to know what or who were you doing while all of this was going on, because we don't see you in the love love clips, but were you doing something behind the scenes where you can get caught. Oh it's great to just get to cuddle and get

away with it. It's really cuddling with who Jay, anybody would smother him. He's a big smotherer. He like great. I caught him with Anissa, cut with Michelle, cuddle, I cuddled one nightddled with he did it was you and it was it was three people. You guys all fell asleep. I think that night, oh me that Michelle was not in there. Oh Jay passed out in some bead. He falls asleep easily, I do. It's great. Um yeah, no, there's a lot of a lot of girls cuddled. But

it was great. But nobody like really caught your I j You wasn't like, oh look at that that that that that nobody you know. I'm there for a million bucks. I know, I like, I don't like these as I do. That's the truth. You can ask Michelle like, I'm there for a fucking million dollars. Has the hard eyes though he was getting himself he did. I got myself in trouble for home Michelle spill early days, luring with Colleen, flirting Olivia. This is pretty Nelson. I mean he was

flirting with anybody who had a pretty face. No, not anybody. No, it was I think it was majority of those two Yeah, yeah, blond brigade. So what happened what happened? Jay? You just didn't get chos? Are you backed off? Oh no, No, they just both found out that I was cuddling with them both at different times. Oh you got caught, you got but you guys Jay's apology tour it was a great one. Yeah, my show, What About You? Who was you snuggling and duggling with? I mean I made the

geek of cuddling with Bessie. But don't we all? Don't we all? Everywhere? Yeah? I feel like I played Never Have I Ever? Sitting there too. Yeah, that room got a lot of action. Yeah, I would like to know about Never Have I Ever? What I lose every time? You? Nica and I probably lost. You honestly do lose every time. Although Ronica gave you a run for your money. Yeah,

she definitely lost. She wait. And it was so weird because Michelle and I weren't really talking because I was upset, and she would come into the room and I'm like, I guess we're playing Never Have I Ever? Together? And that's the That's the one thing that happens on the show. It's like as mad as you want to be, like, you really enjoy people certain people, so it's it's really hard to do that, and once once a pair of leaves,

it changes the whole dynamic of the house. And if there are people in your alliance or people that just keep you saying like you need the balance. I'm so glad you brought up Veronica, because what's the deal with your friendship this episode? What's what's going on? It seems like neither one of you really know what you where you staying with each other, Like we know that there's love there, but what's what's the deal? Like we spent time her speech, it was longer, and then Durrell made one,

but it was awful. Durrell started sweating. He took his hat off. I think he misspronounced. I mean, this was the episode of mispronouncing things. But um, I actually before I get nervous because I made a promise to DM years ago and it still sits with me. I mean, and it's been over a decade that I wouldn't throw her in And it was mid challenge. I mean, she was climbing up the thing when I'm like, I won't do it because I thought she was gonna win, and

I had already gone in elimination like three times. I mean, I was going in the whole season with one of my good friends on there, and from then on, I'm like, I'm never doing that again. So I get nervous because this game can switch on the drop of a dime. So I'm like, do I have this conversation with Veronica, a person that I care about and love, and then some shit, some weird shit happens. So I was like, let me sit for a second. Talk to Kim. He was like, a niece, I need to talk to you,

and I'm like yeah. He was like, what would you do if you pull the safe dagger? And I'm like, i gotta be honest with you. I'm gonna save Derrella Veronica. Yeah, and I'm like, I love you and Kim and I talked every single day. He is ahem, Khalim's my roommate. Like, I had so much fun with them. But Derrell and

Veronica I've known for forever. So I had that talk with Kim and then we get down there and I'm like shit, and I'm like it made me think, like, yeah, this is what I should have had a conversation where I was like, Rodaka, I got you. Yeah, but she needed that. She expressed she needed it. Yeah, okay, so before we go with me further, we need to take a quick break. It will be right back after this. So I want to get into this daily challenge because

it looked super super fun. It looked like work, but it looks a lot of fun as if you were. I went there when my arms, like, I look funnily. So tell us how that fail each of you. I want to know what your experience was. I loved it. I like usually look at challenges and I'm like, fuck, I don't want to do that. That looks horrible. I'm definitely get it's not at this, but like, seeing this challenge, I was like, Okay, these are things that I know how to do, Like I know how to perform in

this way. So I was excited to just something that like I finally felt comfortable with. Um, yeah it was. It's this is like a swimming endurance is not in everybody's wheelhouse, so I was kind of happy to see it. Michelle, did you feel comfortable with the oars? Though, Let's be real, the oars were a little strange. Honestly. Jack's quote about it being like from the fifteen hundreds or something. I gotta stony was like, dude, it really was. They were

so finicky like you. They would kept catching you like game momentum, and then they catch the water and it would like jar the whole boat. It's like ivo before I consider myself like, you know, water animal, I know I know how to row like a fucking kayak. But this is not that. This No, this was from straight up from medieval times. I didn't know what it was like. This is how they got across the sea. Jay, you jumped in that water like a shark searching for blood

like you would own it on the hunt. You know, how did it for you? These daily challenges are literally why I'm obsessed with the challenge. It's just to go and compete. This is my favorite part. I hate the fucking social game. I wish we could all just be friends and compete and if you lose, you go to the fuck home. It is what it is. But these dailies,

I mean, this an elimination. Every time I go into elimination too, I'm like, yes, I get to do one more challenge than all of you if I survived, obviously, But it's like sick how I look at these these competitions even Michelle. No. She looks at me and she's like, are you ready? And I'm just like quiet. I'm like, yeah, everything's great. And she's like, how the fuck are you

like this zen right now? What's going on? And she gets like all this anxiety standing next to me, and I'm like, come here, and I just give her a hug. I'm like, we're good, don't worry about everything would be straight now. We get in and she's like what the fuck because Michelle get scared when I get like super focused or angry, so she's like, what the fuck is going on now? And I'm like, just In, that's my favorite. I love her ship. I don't. I hate it. I

hate everything about the challenge. I don't know why you keep coming back to marry challenging in. Yeah, she just likes the unlimited wine, that's what she was. I mean this season, this wine wasn't that bad, so I wasn't I wasn't mad about an Argentinian mail back. Yeah, some good stuff, yeah, but this challenge was not. I mean, I like swimming and I like rowing, so I didn't really have an issue. I mean, as you saw, like I really did get emotional about it, because like Jordan

is an animal on land. Yeah, and I just can I just say something about that dude the moment I met this guy, right, I have a fucking crush on this dude because I don't know how the fuck he does everything so well. He is immaculate in his athleticism, and his competition is crazy, and the fact that he's doing these oars with one hand and he's keeping he's in second place, I'm like, what the fuck? I don't I don't understand. I want to take him on a

date and pick his fucking brain. I got very emotional about it because I saw how frustrated he was and to see him in a moment like struggle because he's not weak and I would never use that word with him, but he struggled, and we were still like right behind you know, like we yapped up. You were right now, you were right behind us. We kept up also work together. Oh well, put that on the table. Then, congratulations to

YouTube for winning the first heat. Now, going into the second heat, before it even started, who were YouTube most concerned about winning the second heat? We were who was next? It was Nelson, Fessie, Tory, Devon, Colleen Kim, Nanni and Bananas. That was it for me. Nanni and Bananas. Every time, I was like, oh shit, if Bananas wins were going down, Michelle thinks that it's not happening, but I know it's

fucking happening. Yeah, I like honestly looked at all the teams and I was like, Okay, this is not the worst, This is not the worst situation. Like I felt pretty okay with all the teams that were in the second heat,

so I wasn't super stressed. In fact, I looked at the other teams and I was kind of like, I hope one of them wins, because I really did not want to be in a power position like you saw how stressed out I was just being in that power position, Like I prefer to be somebody who doesn't have to make who wins with us to make zero decisions. Yeah, is that possible? It would be ideal. So I really was kind of hoping that like maybe Fessi or Nelse like anybody. Yeah, I would have been okay with anywhere

from that. Were you surprised by Fessie and Mariah and Bananas a Nannie like how how they performed or didn't perform? But yeah, yeah, I was well, like, I know, Fessie's really strong in the water, and I've I was swimming with Maria, so I kind of had a radar of how how well she you know, how she did, But I don't think it was the swimming question. She the way she was holding those oars, I was like, I think it looked like she was stirring. She was stirring

like a cauldron mash potato. Yes, I don't know what she's making, butter yeah. Wait, but what you don't see is that they're going perpendicular to the track. The lake is huge, and we're on like one third of the lake, and then you just see them exactly what it needs to say. They go diagonal to the point where they're completely perpendicular to us, and now they're just going to the other shore and we're like, dude, you're not even on the track anymore. And then Bananas a Nanni or

like over there as well, own doing circle around. So it can it can show you that, like even the most intimidating pairs, all you do is stick a medieval boat in there or a Viking vessel and and the worst can come out of their performance. So it just shows everybody has a weakness exactly, but not even that, like you just put it in any other rowing thing apparatus. Maybe if it were like a little bit more up

to date, could have been a different game. Yeah, But I think it's how well you can adapt and learn on the floor because that was like a CrossFit rower and like a crew rowing boat. So it was like you had to do this overhand, not at the same time row thing. That shit was like rowing on a noodle. Yeah. It was so flimsy and so RIDI like you were about to turn over every second. Michelle's like, oh my god, and like just control control, We good, we good. Let's yeah. No,

I freaked out the whole time. I was so nervous that we were to have size. It was made of wood, Okay, the whole thing just rickety clickety wood for real. But you guys end up taking a k and you guys come out as victors and the winners. This episode was so emotional, was filled with ups and downs, questionable friendships, love, lust, all type of stuff. But I do want to tap

into the friendship between you and Jack. Now we saw that this was a great high episode for you in the winning department, but it ultimately potentially cost you your friendship. Oh yeah, definitely definitely did. So you guys are not friends as of today. I mean I'm still his friend. I'm sure he's not my friend. So so you guys haven't spoken since the season wrapped. I talked to him

one time after I texted him. I gave him some time and then I texted him and then he ended up texting me back and being like, yeah, man, let's hang out, let's go work out, and all this stuff hasn't happened, and I was like, oh, okay, cool. Then I hit him up again and ghost. So I don't know what happened in that moment or in those days, but yeah, Chinese Takeout is currently broken up, So tell me how that. Okay, So, yes, the band, the band no Good Night part of the night. I'm surprised they

it and called it emo night. We had about how did it start? Where did they come from? Our fire I think brought up everything. That little firepit was like where all of our creative juices were flowing. Okay, everybody was singing rapping. A niece is a hell of a singer, Um Devin rapping. I was rapping vessel was rapping unfortunately

not I need. I hope they have it for when they has a blanket freestyle and it's just but then yeah, So then Jack and I I told him I messed with music, and he's like, oh, I make music too. So then we started writing lyrics together and we were just like writing some funny shit one day and then Devin walked by and we're like, hey, yeah, we're making a song. So then it just kind of like warped into this, like okay, let's make an emo rock band.

So then we went with it. And then everybody dressed up, which was awesome, and it was good to see like everybodybody's having a good time. It was just a time where no one was upset yet not yet. Everyone's happy so far. All the rookies are going home ships. Ship's great. You didn't the tables were not shook nothing yet, so then you know, standing on the table singing rock the boat a little bit. So that's what it is now, not even knowing that very soon, not even knowing that

the fucking king emos about the fuck it was. So it was so good and probably the one time where I was like Jay, I like this look for you. Oh yeah, this is yeah. I hit on Jay about four times that night. Yeah, I hit on YouTube because you're singing. It was fucking I was like, oh my god, tend to get smothered. Yeah, yeah, if you want to, just like just put me to sleep, just hug me and just like lay on me, and I'm good. I'm out. Michelle. I have to ask you because if I don't, the

people will riot. Okay, So I have to ask you. Do you, now that you watched the episode back, do you have any regrets in not putting Nannie into the elimination Nanni and Bananas, I'm sorry into the elimination. I think that I made the right choice for myself in the moment, but I think the perception that it gave other people had more weight than the decision. Like what

I didn't factor in. I factored in the decision that I felt was right for me and Jay in that moment, but I didn't think about everybody else's perception of that decision. I thought about, Okay, how will our game move forward with making these choices? Right? Yeah, But I didn't think, Okay, well, now they're all perceiving our decisions like there's a lot to think about. And what you also don't see is that we won that challenge and we went right into we didn't have time to talk to any buddy. Your

hair was still wet. It was like it was eight minutes to get ready. Wow. So part of it is the conversations and the checkens that we needed to have we weren't really able to have, you know, like we were doing things really really fast, and you can't think through every single thing when you're moving now fast. You can't play every avenue out um. And so do I regret it? Like I regret I don't regret anything that I did because I was working with the information that

I that I had. But yeah, I probably would have done I probably could have done things differently, I don't know, But that we did great. So what did you think of now that you watch it? But what did you think about the reactions that everybody had seeing it? Like seeing how they were like what that was gone? Like, I mean, I absolutely understand people's reactions, but at the end of the day, it is a game, and like, yeah, I'm trying to play the long game, right, I really,

I really am. And I think sometimes when you do that, you forget that there is a short game that needs to um So that's always the battle, like how do you play how do you play it to stay until the end while also maintaining what needs to be done right now. So it is a balancing act. And I'm learning, and me and Jay, you know, we're learning. We're trying to navigate and working on barely. You know, we don't

have a lot of experience. It's really hard coming into this game, like as a survivor because big brother, I mean, Dayvon, you've paid the way. Natalie paved the way, Paulie, you know, all you guys have paved the way coming in. I'm the first survivor in Michelle's the first, like American Survivor's turboat. He counts as a survivor, but he's just in his own boat because he's like, let me just everything and the show. Yeah Natalie, but I'm talking about in our season.

Oh sorry, yeah yeah, but yes, me, uh, Natalie, Michelle and I are all the first survivors ever to play. I was the first one all alone, but also but as a recurring yeah, yeah, yeah, this is our This is our second time or third time for me, second for for Michelle. So coming in, people look at Survivor immediately and they're just like, nah, can't trust you. Don't

know why, but it just can't trust you. Off rip and even you know, Anissa was the very first person ever on my first season to ever come up out of the vets to be like, hey, I messed with you. I like you. You're a cool person. I'm gonna be your friend and let's work, like just just hang out. And she never voted against me, which I always respected and I love that. And I was like, I'll never fucking throw you in. It is what it is. We're

good fun right. But then now coming in, like you can even see in the episode, like everyone's like, oh the Survivors, you know, their masterminds, they're doing shit. And it's like when we're playing the game right now, which you don't realize too, is like it is very early in the game. So taking a massive power shot and also not it affects both ways. So if we could kind of throw it in the middle where it was a middle, like if you look at our picks, they're

all middle picks. I mean, Kim and Cooling. They almost won the rowing challenge. He looked like like a golden god on the boat. Anisa and Jordan they came in second, Laura and Jack they did great, just came in, and Veronica Durrell came in. So we're trying to play both sides where it's not affecting too much, but it's also making enough moves to like, Okay, let's build our alliance

and also keep our people strong. So to a lot of people, it might look like we don't know what the fuck we're doing, but in every move that we made, it was calculated for a long game. It was calculated also for our game. Everyone's gonna get upset when you get thrown in. You're never gonna be like Henks, Bro, that's so good for your game. I can't wait to just do it for you. You did great. Everyone's gonna be pissed you throw me in. I'm gonna be like, motherfucker,

I'm pissed. I feel like from the outside, it's almost expected, you know, because they have this this thing. Social media has this thing where CBS is trying to take over the CBS people are trying to take over the challenge, right, That's what they're saying on the social media. So my thing is Why do you think that the other CBS people that were there weren't welcoming minus Amber weren't really welcoming to you too. Why do you guys think that is because I would have expected a big CBS situation.

I think that I think that there's this stigma that we're like sneaky because we're on Survivor, particularly that I Wall and Jay had was working with Teresa, and there's like all of these stigmas that we literally cannot shake out of people's minds when we do anything. If we do things that are good and not sneaky and upfront, nobody recognizes it. The minute that we do something that's a little bit shaky, they're like, that's exactly what we

expected of them. They're sneaky, they're snakes, And it's like a self fulfilling prophecy. It's like, we're gonna become what you think that we are, no matter because eventually this game is sneaky. It requires making moves, and we're always going to be what you expect. If you think that way, we're going to show up and be that way. That's just unfortunately the way that it is in this game, and we can't seem to shake it, but also being

tied to some of the CBS people like Fessi. We're working with Fessio's chill, and then with Casey we had a mutual understanding of just like we know where you are. We never had to say anything of like hey, we're working together. Because she's working with Nannie, she gets and Nannie is right hand to Bananas. Yeah, so she can't say shit to me. You know what I'm saying, Like there's nothing she's gonna be like, oh Jay, I'm gonna talk to Nannie trying to say like now I know

I'm fun. Let's get over it. All right. So as far as CBS is concerned, like those are the only other two, and we had Fessi with us the whole time, so they just don't show everything, yeah, which is fine because then it just leaves like questions like this, so we get to do cool stuff. ANSA. Do you agree that there is a stamp on yeah shows? I mean yeah, but I also feel like challenge people think like this

is our show. Um okay. Additionally, like I know, before the season happened, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna work with Michelle. It's just in my mind, and what wasn't to my benefit or Jordan's. Um, I think coming in late and having people already having those conversations. Nope. UM. But Jordan and I kind of are kind of misfits, you know, like we ride on the outside, and I made my one promise and if someone thought I was gonna throw I'm my best friend under the bus, they were out

of their mind. But besides that, I had no no promises to anyone, So of course I was like, I want to work with someone that's good at the fucking game. And I think if I could run it back, I wonder, I wonder what it would have looked like had had our two pairs work together this season. On looking back on it, had I known that you guys were working with Nelson, and had I known that, like you were actually tied to Michelle, this shit would have been completely different.

I know. And that's and I never make phone calls before the show because I just expect, like and maybe that's maybe that's shitty on me, but I you know, I think we all have integrity. It's not a question of character. It's just the game is like, like, I love you guys outside of it I love you inside the game. It just it just hurts when when shit happens, you know. So it's and I'm I'm just a human being that fields things. So yeah, And I've been in

twenty I've been in twenty three elimination or whatever. However many or more so I've had friends and the whole house and people that I thought I'd trust. So I get where you guys are coming from. But I think once something happens, you give people one excuse, one thing, they will take it and they will use it for ever. You step on someone's toe, They're like, that's the person that steps on people's feet, yea, And they will never

let you live that down. It does not matter if you are a fucking saint and you never tell a liar do anything ever again, it just stays with you. And to be honest, you can thrive and move through that. There are people that have been villains and horrible and people hate them and they and even if they're not, they can still, you know, rise to the top. So I doubt it's the last time people are going to

see you. You start villain era? Is this? I mean, Michelle, I don't think you could ever be a villain, I don't think, but you know who may be answering their villain era world in Jack. They are now back into the house. Now, how are you too feeling that I are coming back? Hopefully Chinese Takeout can come up with

a new soul. I'm sorry, I have to tell honestly, I was so so stressed out making all of the decisions, like I am, that is not in my comfort zone and you could obviously see that play out in the episode. But once the decision is made and I have to deal with the backlash, I'm fine taking the backlash once it's dead and done, like I am, I am strong enough after the decision is made to hold my own and fight for myself. I'm really not somebody who backs

down in that way. But like it was the hemming the hall and then not knowing the hurting people, the hurt is done. It's done, and now I'm gonna stand out for my decision and I'm gonna move right along. So like I don't feel in this moment now that it's all done, like intimidated. Whatever, we made a decision, whether it was a good decision or not, everybody's gonna have opinions on it slightly. People are gonna say it's not well whatever, you know what, move along and onto

the next week. Like it's we're just gonna have to hang on to the next week and that's it. On to the next week. Anything you can tell us about this next episode, and you're putting it out there, Anissa gets mad again. I get pissed. Oh anything, anything you want to use, any special situation. I mean, we're definitely not out of hot water yet. I think that, yeah, it's gonna be it's gonna winning. It feels like losing, and we're gonna we're gonna see how that play is out.

And I think it's paving the road for like people seeing that this is the first time that I really had the backlash is gonna be, like, you know, people are gonna start to see that the backlash for the decisions that you make paved the way for the rest of your game. Things are gonna get spicy. Oh love, a little spice, A little spice. Let's get into the final segment of this episode. So we have one final game for you. Now. We have three questions for you

about each other. This is you say you're right of eyes. Now it's time to prove me you're ready. Okay, I'm ready. Question number one, I need sound throwing it to you. All right, guys, there was an emo party this episode as we all participated in What is your partner's favorite genre of music? Oh? Jay loves like rock, like old is it rock, punk rock, indie rock, whatever, punk rock. He always brings it up, like rock songs from like the eighties that I'm like, what the fuck is that?

Where is she? Where did like hair bands or like all of them? Hud had everything is? She's andy punk, old class every If you got a guitar in your hand, we're good. Yeah? Is she right? Jay? She's right. Oh. Michelle's is very difficult because she's like, I don't know, she's like a fucking fairy. She's like floats around. I don't understand what she listens to. Definitely not rock, and I don't think it's house. I feel like it's like, I don't know, just like pop music, just like regular pop.

She's like a top forty kind of girl. Yeah to forty. There's a really forty okay, Yeah, like Taylor Swift and whatever else. Yeah, FATA's new album please, I know Everywhere not album see, that's where we differ, Michelle. We can go out on the shore, we can drink together, but not tete. Oh I'm just kidding. I might get crucified for that. They ham it. Listen. I think she's talented. I think she's talented. You like son I love. I mean, I'm a big indie rock girl though my space days. Listen.

Oh lord, you would have you would have been my top eight, but after this fucking episode, I would have taken you out, but I would have put you back in. I'm on the top sixteen right now until next week. Then I'm top nothing. So question number two. The house got a burger King feast this episode. What's your partner's favorite Burger King order? Um? I assume he would like something like I don't know, what's what's that burger king? Like a walker like whatever, Like a big sandwiches. I

don't know, I've seen it. J just eats a lot of a lot of food. So something big, all right? She says, something big, something big, something big and beefy, big old beef. Oh yeah, you already know that that clip is about to go viral. What's Michelle's favorite order from Burger King? I don't. Maybe French fries, I don't. Probably something like chicken, like chicken tenders or French for us. I don't know. Yeah, something you're just dipping. They got

chicken fries, don't they. Yeah, I'm actually starving. I know I'm sick, but now I'm hungry. Well, let's answer number three so Anissa can go eat. Yeah, let's see. I'd love to ask this one. Does Anissa still love Jay and Michelle? I don't know, as you guys, I still love you. It's a game. I told you. I've been put in by every single person I think that's ever been on the challenge. So you get over it. I'm with you. Don't bring it to the next show. I'm

with you, hopefully. Um So, in episode one, you said you first met flirting in a hotel elevator while being cast for Survivor. Do you remember or no which floor that elevator was going to? We went to the penthouse, sweet together waiting. So that was the incorrect answer, Michelle. The correct answer is I don't know. I think you're floor eleven. Were you guys that consumed with each other?

You don't remember the floor flo for Big Brothers? The top one going to see Jesus because I was tired, child. I was tirer tired. I was tired, Okay, I was tired. You guys have been so amazing. I'm so glad that you guys came to hang out with me and Anissa today. I'm glad you guys got an opportunity to have a conversation because it was a little tension between the three of y'all at the top of it. Yeah, the top

of the episode was hot. Sorry, listen, I've had a fever and I feel like it's just broke again on here, and that is my bad. So but I love that. I love that about this podcast because we have the opportunity to have people who have beef, even if it's like little beef sausages. You know, I'm literally in the notes like, you guys could have found somebody else to do this fucking interview. And look at y'all now talking about top eight on my Space going to have it.

Yeah a Nissa's hosting it. Are you worried? And I was like, I can't wait to talk to her. I know. He was like, how you doing, and I'm like, I'm fine. She hated me in the beginning of this she hated me. Now I'm on am I on top ten at least now you're in there. Hi Kim, Hi guys, Hi Kim. For everyone doesn't know Michelle's sister, Kim is on the zoom Yessa. Sorry, my sister and Jay were Me and Hugh. I would never do that. Oh I love this podcast,

but I love Kim. This is literally why every single challenger that's ever met Kim is like, hey, can we just switch Kim from Michelle? Kyle, Kyl and I, Kyle and I had a whole conversation about how much we love Kim, didn't Michelle? I love you and I love you too. I need therapy. I need therapy after this episode, after this, after this podcast, after my sisters throwing me under the fucking but are you? This is why I

wasn't a find good to see nut rivals. Okay, yeah, maybe I'll start that therapy with day the after after podcast. Oh though, we need straight cash money take it all round me, my bill. Oh no, but I love you guys. Thank you guys for coming hang out with us. Right It's been such a fun episode. Thank you for rocking with us. Tell the people where they can find you in the social world of the media's of the world. Go ahead, Michelle, Okay, you can find me on Instagram

at miss underscore Fits. You can find me at Twitter as a niche fits, but don't tweet about me at this episode. If you have mean things to say, direct everything to Jay. You guys, if you want to say any meanshit or any nice shit, you can find me at jasarat dot com. You can find everything there for my stay local brand, to Instagram's twitters, whatever it is, just go to Jasara dot com. You find it all. Whoa,

thank you, Thank you guys for having us. I appreciate it was great and I love that the tension has finally gone fu. Thank you guys. Appreciate it. Man. That was such a great interview that we had with Jay and Michelle. So many things were brought, so many problems were resolved. Dare I say they were resolved? It's okay until next season or at least the scut find you both in the corner. An to telling people where they can find you on the social immedia, Well, it's not

gonna be a Twitter. That's day On's job. I hate it over there. It's just it's so negative. Um, but you can find me on Instagram at Anissa MTV. If I'm where can they find you? On Twitter? Y'all can find me any Twitter three at day day Von Underscore or you can find me on Instagram and Dayvione Diane Underscore. And until I get consistent with content, that is the only place that you can find me. At least you're being honest with the people they deserve. If I don't,

they will drag me. They will well. But if you like this episode, please make sure that you rate and review us on Spotify or Apple podcast and tell a friends, tell everybody. Come listen and then catch new episodes of The Challenge. Rider dies Wednesday at eight pm on MTV. Yes, and we will see you back here next week for a brand new episode of MTV's official challenge podcast that t