Free Agents Eps 5 & 6 w/ Frank Sweeney Fox

Hello, everyone, it's your girl Devin Simone and.

I'm Anissa Ferreira and this is MTV's official Challenge podcast, Welcome back. Today.

We're covering episode five and six of The Challenge Free Agents.

And remember you can watch the Challenge Free Agents along with us right now for free. Go to Paramount plus dot com and use code Challenge Pod Try one month free.

Don't say we don't ever give you anything. Thank you.

We're also gonna give you a lot in this interview. We have the incomparable doctor Oh I say it in an acting Can you say his name?

You're gonna get in trouble for all these accents. You doctor Frank Fox, formerly known as doctor well just Frank Sweeney.

But we have him here today.

We have please to welcome you in to the podcast.

We are and we're actually gonna save our recap that because doctor Frank had some notes, so we're gonna get into it episodes five and episode six. But before we get into that interview, you know, we got to talk about you know, we got to talk about the moment of the episode, the flashback moment and the thing we want to leave in the past in any fashion corner moment so Nini, I'm gonna kick it over to you.

Hmm.

I should write these down before we get here, so I'm not pondering, well you won, Yeah, was nice. I don't know if this was your first daily wind as a solo person.

As a solo person, yes, it was.

Okay, Well, then I'll give this one to you, Devin, because it seemed that no one else at every brain cell that we could have had you just had only you had a brain up there.

You know.

I give it all to Tamara was wearing her that day, and I feel like she knew she was she was my waterwig, and she knew exactly what needed to be done to stay dry in that moment, which was really great. I'm gonna have to you know what, I think i'mouna say that. Yeah, I'm would take that at the moment of the episode for me too, because.

I don't know, but I think we should give yourself. Give yourself a wedding gift, girl, and this is the gift that never stops, you know, because you can always look back and say I won trivia and I said, it's true.

That is true, that is very, very very true. I appreciate that. Now, what's the moment that you. I feel like there are a few kind of potential leave in the pastors, but what were what's the moment you would leave in the past.

A lot of the commentary by the people on this show, I would like to leave it right in two thousand and whatever year this was twelve, now I think fourteen, fourteen, fourteen.

You know, it's a it's a mixed bag because some of I feel like, on one hand, some of the commentary is the funniest I think of any.

Challenge ever, like le Roy stuff. Some of it's just hilarious.

It's so funny, She's so funny.

But then some of it is just just trash.

I'm like, WHOA, calm down.

Yeah, I would leave out my leave in the past moment.

I actually will leave in the past the way I handled the Teresa thing, and I never thought i'd say that, But just looking back, I feel like I stand by voting her in, but I feel like I probably could have communicated it differently. And yeah and so and and she had every right to then be upset, even though I was reacting to her reaction, she had every right to be upset. After that, and watching just walking back

I was just as surprised.

Like we told Kara, I told Carl last week every episode or every New Day that I was still in the house. I was just as shocked as anybody else. So I'm like, wait, yeah.

I really mean asked Jesus.

I had a lot there were a lot of voicemails that were left like wow, well thank you, this is me so well. I've stopped watching myself back saying like, oh, you know, I'm good at a political game. So I'm like, girls, since when, I don't know how it's interesting, I just don't remember.

I just think it's that's part of you. And I think that when you play like that, it's just it's just natural. So it doesn't feel like you've done anything.

Yeah it really At the time, it didn't. So that's was.

Before your time, you know what I mean, maybe you should have ran for her office in some capacity.

I'm not organized enough, but thank you for believing in me. That's you can just have a nice fair now. What's your what's your leave it in the past moment? I don't even know Jazine getting beat by Laurel so terribly.

I mean, yeah, I would I would love to never see that again.

I would be rare.

But what I would like.

To say something to that, It's like, we're not professional like fighters, you know what I mean, Like, we're not like doing this based on weight class. So it's right, like as unfair as it is, it's just that's the None of this shit is fair. So if we were all the same, the same height, the same weight, the same athletic ability, well we'd probably all be playing a sport.

Yeah.

Not so we're here because we need the dynamic. We need it to be different.

So for listeners and fans of the show, who I'm like, well that's unfair, I'm like, yeah, it sucks. You know, like one's very small, ones very tall. There's a weight difference, you know, but we've seen the upset, you know, We've seen anything can happen. And I know Jazone was like, well this sucks, but it's also.

Like good on you.

Yeah yeah she put up a bite, Yeah she didn't give up. Yeah. Absolutely.

Some people would have been like why are we even doing this shit?

So yeah, it's just that's the game, you know, as much as you want to leave it in the past, like, it's still a present and always be a recurry scene that.

You just get.

Bodies are different and you're gonna get some people that are bigger than some other people.

So that's true. Were there any fashion corner moments for you in this episode?

I mean, listen, that's some shit I would like to leave in the past.

That's fair.

Yeah.

Yeah, And I'm also leaving my frizzy non existent edges in the past.

That deliberation hair, my edges. Clearly, I'd given no love.

For different They had a different, different, different idea.

Yes, they really wanted your hairstyle.

To be They did. They did. I've been working, they were, they were. Oh, it was a sight to see.

Well something else that's not a sight to see, but definitely a site to listen to you. Although, if you guys could pete doctor Fox. Now I'm talking about doctor Frank.

Fox, you Foxy, doctor f He really is.

He really is and smart too and just so fun. So we're excited for you to get in this interview. So grab a snack, Grab a drink, don't do whatever makes you feel good legal and then stay right here for this fabulous interview that Anita and I are about.

Fabulous doctor Frank.

All right, folks, it's that time in the podcast where we get to interview you know.

It goes from Christmas past.

If you will, this person I think was an incredible cast me, a good friend and definitely entertaining to watch. Now he has grown up and he is doctor Frank Fox. Welcome the former Frank Sweeney now Frank Fox, doctor and still handsome as ever to the podcast.

I'm excited to have you. I haven't seen you in ages.

You still thank you you guys.

He is not aged literally a day like I'm I think you got Yeah, it's wild.

That's Sarah at the clinic. She really she fills me up with all the things I need.

So but thanks you all. It's so good to see you. It's really it's like it really is a blast in the past.

It is as an.

Artist normally known as frank' sweening now now Frank Fox.

Right, did you cringe as much as we have watching these?

I mean like, oh, it's a time capsule. We'll say that to be like, yeah, about it.

But I will say some of the folks commentary and the boys commentary does not age very well, does it? These boys? No, clean them up?

Yeah no, we said it. Then we were like kind of had a kind of haven't enough of this like bullshit? And then it's like it really is like kind of like you know, what.

Calls crazy calls what I will but maybe it doesn't feel good to be on the right side of history, see you boys?

Yes right, yeah, yeah, one thousand percent.

I'm like, who a dodged a bullet there? And listen, yeah, could never.

It was a lot to fill And for those who don't know, we'll get into the episodes because we definitely want to hear your taken and especially watching it back now, Doctor Fox. But fill us in on what you've been up to, what has life been all because so many people want to know because you are and were such an icon when you were competing on the Challenge and then you went on to Kickbooks but in real life, so yeah, give us an update.

What have you been up to?

Thanks seven? Well, yeah, I mean just a bunch of uh, just you know, moves here and there. So I was in LA for about eleven years, and in my time there after, I transitioned off the challenge I started. I went to grad school, I got my doctorate in physical therapy. I started a PhD program, but then I realized it's time to grow up and make some money. So I stopped.

Otway through that and started working and get that coin.

And so I've been working as sort of like in healthcare consulting since then, with a little hand in research in clinical practice too.

So it's always nice to just like keep that up.

And I've since moved to Austin, Texas with my husband, mister Dan Fox, mister sexy sexy.

Dan Fox, and uh yeah, the two of us are here, got three tiny dogs, just live in our gay fantasy, our gay cowboy fantasy.

I love so right.

Love that so much.

Who do you, if any, do you keep in regular contact with from your days in the real world world or the challenge world.

Yeah, I would say more so with like some of the real world girls, Priscilla and Alex, I definitely keep in touch with we just like you know, touch.

Base every now and then, and they're they're wonderful.

I would say, yeah, I don't know, I haven't not for any issue of like mouse or it will. It's just been like life gets busy and you get torn away and you sort of like fall out of the circle. And uh, you know, I think with some people that I was friends with by circumstance, like a Jordan or somebody like that, like when I was in LA, that was like, you know, more circumstantial and you know, things naturally sort of like fall off.

Yeah.

I also think we were filming a TV show and in that moment, like watching back, Devin and I have talked about like how serious we thought things were or friendships, fights, whatever, like then you grow up and you're kind of like, well that was that was ridiculous and trivial and like kind of like juvenile, And yeah, as were like some of the friendships they were built on like a trauma bond and that's that's it not necessarily healthy, but it's definitely true.

So yeah, I will say like there's like it's such a like an innate joy that I have seeing the two of you right now that like and maybe it is that like that like trauma bond coming back and like really flushing out I r L. But it's so good, like it does feel like oh wow, like look at this thing that we survived in together and we made and we like really made together and as serious as it felt, we put ourselves out there in a really nuts.

Way, right and not like one hundred percent.

Being that vulnerable like with you know, the three of us were all friends. Like being that vulnerable together is uh, I mean that is really special. So there's a real, true, no bullshit joy that I feel, just like chapter with the.

All right now same, It's true. I feel like it's it is. It's an experience that is unique that only as much as we talk about it on a podcast or people watch shows or fans, that you can only really get when you're in it. It's like this, you know.

And so you know that's true about being a part of kind of the challenge your world family anyway, but it's even more so I think when you share you know, the only two challenges I had ever done, Frank, you were on both of them. So it's like you share an even deeper like kind of bond in that way, which is is I think really neat.

Actually yeah, well what wasn't neat this season was that Frank. I remember walking into the room and Frank was like sick, and just like under the covers, wrapped up like a burrito, not moving, and just like I remember you just sleeping days away, and I don't think anyone knew what happened, like you just left. And I mean clearly some people were devastated, myself included, but it because I knew it was going to change the dynamic in the house, change

Yeah, yeah, no, I had pneumonia. I had pneumonia. It was like, I mean, y'all know, we went down to Jose Nacio or would stay in Yorgay, which I just went back to this year.

By the way, it is chic, like so so chic.

The food was so good, it's like artsy. It's like all these Europeans coming in. It was.

It was so great, highly recommend truly.

Yeah, But we were down there and it wasn't like it was off off off season in the fall, and it like wasn't quite the summertime there yet, and it was cold. I don't know, if you'll remember we did that and we were like shaking, like pneumonia, and I was just like down for the count. I went to that hospital in Punta la Stay and I remember, like as I speak Spanish, and I remember them talking and being like like talking around me, and I was like, just like tell me what's going on to me? Please,

So Yeahdj's like Frank's highly contagious.

I'm like, is it sars?

Like what are we dealing with? I know, right?

Oh man, that was It was tough. It was tough to like be sick and then also like try to you know, have fun be there, yeahs and do the actual challenges.

I remember, Yeah, one of the.

Nights we like I was only there for like what maybe like two weeks, and one of the nights we went out and I don't know, See was being a dumb ass and not.

What he was doing.

I just remember and sitting on the bus and being like these just stop fighting.

I just want to go to sleep so bad.

And I was like shivering and sick, and I was like, I get it.

Yeah, yeah, that was tough.

It was tough.

Well, we had really late nights then too.

It wasn't like now where we did check us out, They're like, okay, kids, Like we partied.

Then, I get it was so we definitely it was interesting too.

I don't know if you guys notice on the cliffs, but like people could have feuds in the house. People could be like, I hate you, I want to see you going, and then it cuts to the party scene and I'm pretty sure I saw a car and Johnny doing shots together, and you see like people who like hated each other in competition.

It was like everybody was cool. I'm fine at the club and then you know, we went back out. That was also the year that Miley cyrus Is wreck Ball came out.

Do you guys remember we watched that video on the projector screen in that club. I just remember being so impressed when Miley was on the Wrecking Ball. Remember how we were like on the top floor and we were.

Always because we only went to Mighty Dix.

Yes, clips, that's where we were. It was where sound the bus like three hours like Camilla was gonna be yelling in Portuguese.

That was the night I got left on the back of the bus. Frank, Yeah, you.

Felt sick, Yes, because the back of the bus.

Come on, Yes, girl, I know Rosa Parks could not have been impressed.

But I made.

It out a lot.

Wait, but it's because Devin and I were also talking. It was a two hour ride, yes, not on that, but it was two hours there and back until we got on that little like barge situation, like.

A tiny literally, I was just there.

Can confirm it took that long. We had to get on a bar or whatever it was.

That was the shortcut, but not us. I could only take the vans.

Wait, but you're saying there's a real break.

Now there is a real.

Change.

I'm on the chism board for Jose and I'll see how your agua here.

Right.

Actually, I said, redact, redact. I want to keep a cheek, keep it right.

I mean, have you.

Besides like jet setting and like doing great things, have you watched any of the challenge since you stopped? Okay, I know that's a big I mean.

It's no is my honest answer, and like I love reality TV like I do. I like I took a minute after I left the show to like bounce back into it. I will say, like I didn't watch like any reality TV, not like even The Housewives anything like that at first. But I've since bounced back and bounce back hard, just not necessarily to the challenge. I don't know what it is. It's just like tough to watch people who and I don't know if you all feel the same way, but people who I know sort of

Yeah, Frank, when you did you.

Watch the rest of Free Agencies and back when it originally aired, or you know, is this your first time rewatching with us?

Is this your first time?

This is my first time seeing the episodes?

Yeah, the ways.

I really like, I just like it was like it was like a sefference.

I was just like, all right, yeah, Like I just didn't even nothing.

I mean, you know, you basically watch when you get everybody's opinions online anyways, so like I'm like, I know how people feel about it. What do I gotta watch?

Yeah?

Right, yeah?

Okay, So then from your fresh take, Okay, let's go into episode five where we have oh god, that like hanging rope Challenge daily thing.

Just I know not never not a fan of that.

For today's challenge, piggyback, you guys are going to be separated and the two teams of ten to begin, All ten players are going to start on one platform, and when I say go, the first player is going to jump on the first rope. The second player is then going to use the first player as a human bridge to get to that second rope. The third player is going to do the same and tell all ten players.

Have their own rope.

When you watched that, Frank, did you think, like before you saw how it ended or like how the teams did did you kind of assume that that one because it seemed like everyone there.

Thought it would be relatively easy. Did you also think it would be easy just looking at it, or could you tell it was going to be a challenge.

I definitely know it was gonna be easy.

I surprised that it was so difficult.

It reminded me of like, I don't know if y'all ever did like Project Adventure in gym when you were in elementary school? Did y'all have it?

It was called no, what is it?

I don't know? So fun when it was Project Adventure week. It was so lit in elementary school, you basically like it was like the Challenge but made for kids, where they were like, all right, here's a tire and a board, build a bridge, and.

Here's a net with a bunch of things.

Get out of it.

That was like, oh man, oh that's cool.

It's like some shit we do now.

Yeah. Yeah, that's what it reminded me of. I was like, oh, this is like Project Adventure week. This is going to be a cakewalk, except.

For the people that were cake walking on your head.

Yeah right.

It was hot. I knew I was going to fall because I don't have upper body strength. I knew that I looked that I looked like it. But looks this evening and so I knew that was going to be a struggle from the jump.

What we didn't know I don't think though is pressed in yet again really shining. I don't know if you saw the episode before, Frank, but Preston in the last couple of episodes has been like the underestimated last Picked one, and yet has really kind of been essential.

Yeah, yeah, I got thoughts. I think like, again, oh, oh, this is the time capsule and we are back on it and we're not like we're not necessarily looking back with the same mines as we felt in the moment, right and I'm looking back on it and I'm just like, oh, we did him so dirty, just like yeah, like the queer person, the personal color, We're just like last pick, like, get the fuck out of here. Like the fact that

Killed off like a horror movie. It's we get weaponized every fucking time, disposable.

I said that, that's been I made that.

I made a clip of that once not to do spoiler alert, but again, y'all show why this has been out for tending U. When we get down to the final black person I did. I made a video and I think they put it on MTV dot com where I was like, why are all the black people gone?

And I go through the list of how all the black people have been like annihilated.

And it was Yeah, it's crazy because I don't think any of us really thought about it in the moment, like to the to the point that I think about it now and like look at it. Yeah, you know, like with women, female winners, and brown winners and queer winners, like.

Where we are, we were loving.

We were loving some like subconsciously villainizing the other.

We loved. It was like it was a thing like you know, I mean when I the one thing that I have watched back because when I married my husband, he said I gotta see Anne episode of the Real World. I said, okay, you can watch Anne episode. And when I watched it back, I was just like, oh, like what, because I'm gay this is the issue? Like because I'm because I'm queer, because I'm other, this is the issue. And I was like, man, I really don't care a fuck about what I said or how I said it.

My message was loud and clear, and yeah, all were wrong, baby.

So what are your thoughts on that point.

Sorry, Yeah, no, it's very curious action.

Yeah, it's probably a similar Yeah, I definitely want to know how your husband felt about it.

But while you're here, Frank, your thoughts on Battle of the Season, because there's been a lot and still is a lot of commentary around kind of to this point, right, and the communication and the things that were said, and the treatment of some people on the show, and I just wonder, with you and your mature eyes, what are your thoughts around you know, look, I'm gonna just keep

Yeah, I think that they're totally there's I mean, there were so many levels to that, and I think a lot of it was beyond my like twenty three year old self fit at the time, and like how I handled I'll only speak for myself here and how I handled like those relationships, I think I could have better. I mean, I know I could have better handled almost

It was all me.

Yeah, he like you know, gets the steam and he has the physical presence and he is the white straight dude just like doing it. And like I sort of like acquiesced after being on the real world with him and how fucking horrible he was. I sort of like acquiesced and was like cool, let's just you know, make make nice. But I don't know that I should have made nice at the time. I don't know that I was ready to.

It was just like a it was just again twenty three o'da being like, let's do this let's make a show. Also, let's do well. So you're sort of in the worst position to do so.

Yeah, but I also think, like what you said before, like how we our delivery I think is different now of like.

Kind of you know, picking and choosing our.

Battles and like how we are to fight those battles. Yes, because it coming out of your twenty three year old mouth may seem way different than how you would present your arguments now at your level of confidence and your knowledge of self now versus then. So it's kind of like you could, like you said before, like you could have been saying all of the things, you know, all of the right things, just the wrong way. I mean, yeah, I am afraid to even watch your season of the

Oh she did not age well. But like, here's the thing now that you're like empowered with you know, you know now that all of us are empowered with like a little bit more forethought and a lot more maturity, Like we can all still read a bitch and we can do it artic.

You let leave.

Yeah, absolutely, that's my favorite.

Absolutely, that's my favorite.

Yeah, absolutely, I love it. I feel like that was the thing that actually united the three of us in the house.

I feel like that was like I just remember like sometimes our little peakies in a side and I'd come, even though I wasn't rooming in the room with you guys, I'd come, like sit in the room with you guys and talk.

And I feel like that was the thing.

Well, it was you, Zach and who in your room?

Me Zach, Teresa, you know the one that I voted in which we'll talk about this episode and uh chat. But Frank took shut out day one, and I think that, yeah, we did have that. You guys were the next room over.

Our neighbors.

Yeah, and then it all just getting ready.

Laurel and Jordan's and they were.

Bathroom buddies for real.

Yeah any other time, the real the other.

Type of bathroom buddies.

Okay, so let's talk a little bit about the episode, because I know sometimes and they do want to hear our taking your take, and this is Frank watching it with fresh eyes. Okay, So we see that challenge, We see that I guess Preston didn't grab both ropes. I remember being like nervous about how that was going to go because it was such a like kind.

Of nail bier with the four and four. And so then we get to the you know, deliberation, and this is.

Kind of the beginning of You're starting to see the fissure between Jordan and Bananas.

This person is really big on tradition.

He's a really good competitor.

He's got a lot of famous speeches, but one of his most famous is it's time for you to go in there and earn your stripes.

Johnny, how do you got mine?

Buddy?

So my vote is for Johnny Bananas.

We haven't seen you in elimination and.

Quite some time.

All right, Bananas, come on up. Jordan, of all people, a guy who's coming to this house and done nothing, a guy who is full of false bravado, is.

Now going to tell me that I need to earn my stripes.

I mean, I'm not gonna dignify that with a response.

You're starting to see that dynamic. They're like laying the groundwork.

What are your And it's also very interesting watching it because this is like Jordan's He's so he's not a villain, I want to be clear, But if we can liken it to anything, you know, how they say that every villain as their origin story, so you sort of see who they become.

And so it's here you see Bananas being like.

You haven't done anything, like you'll never do anything on this show always and now we know where and I know you said you haven't kept up as much, Frank, but like, basically Jordan is is on his track, on his way to becoming one of the goats. I mean, has done exceptionally well. But seeing this moment where Bananas is like, you'll never amount to anything and you'll.

Da da da da da.

It's just this was Jordan's second season, I think, as we had done Rivals too right before that.

Mm hmmm mm hmm. What are your thoughts about that?

Yeah, yeah, I haven't seen, but I'm not like uninformed obviously seen like social media and things, and whenever I log onto Twitter, I you know, the babies still keep me updated the challenge stuff. But I would say I wrote I wrote notes when I when I watched this, and I was like, and my note was, was this the beginning of the battle of egos for Bananas and Jordan?

And I think yes it was.

I think this is the inception, Yes it was.

I think he has an incredible athletic prowess. I think Jordan's like really fantastic. He's just like good at these challenges. I think that's also like a thing, being good at these challenges. But this was all based an ego. It seems like them.

Yes, yes, unlike no other mm hmm. What are some of your other notes that you like? Run through Frank's notes and talk about each point. Let's run through.

On our podcast, Frank.

I'm sorry, yes, doctor's notes. Sure, yes. Episode five, we've got Teresa voting for Laurel, I wrote, savage, I thought not voting for Laurel rather like saying I want to get her out and then being like Jasmine or whope, you vote for to thrown the bus? That was wild Teresa, And I'm sorry, Jasmine, we vote for you.

Teresa votes for Jasmine.

You mean this woman, this Joan of Arc that came in here torch.

Blazing to go for Laurel.

Just voted Jasmine.

So now we look like the kid's going after Laurel and she's sitting up there shaking all nervous. What the hell?

And then I wrote, I wrote, what do we think her worse? Hitting the water in that challenge for Teresa's broken bones from Devin, you throwing her under the bus when you told Laurel immediately.

Immediately, I mean we didn't even go upstairs yet, we didn't even make it upstairs.

I just think that you should know and be aware that there was a ring leader amongst set voting that has then turned coat, sitting right there so.

That it looked like she had nothing to do with it. And I think you know who I'm talking about.

I do thank you, and you know what, I'm.

Not gonna lie watching the Fresh Eye.

So the way I remember it in my heart is that I really felt bonded, like Teresa and I had really hit it off, Like I really felt very close with Teresa, which is why I really felt very betrayed when she flipped like that, because like when I say that we were like buddy buddies in the house, we very much were. And so I just felt like I was really hurt by it. So when I then went and told Laurel it was for two my memory was

Voted for you or whatever. That was just kind of my standard.

So was that.

And then also because I was so hurt by Teresa. However, watching it back, look, the challenge editors played a clip of a snake through the grass before they cut to me talking about what Teresa did.

And I'm not gonna lie.

Watching it back, it actually does look shady as hell. It looks real shady and real like snakeish.

Even though she did completely flip it, it didn't.

I didn't look good in handling things the way that I did, especially because I literally I teased instead, I'm going to.

Throw you in and then I go, oh, I would never, but clearly I would because it did.

So.

Yeah, So it did make for good TV. But that is me owning my shit in that I that it looks it was. It was equally messy. My hands were not fully clean in that, and I could have handled it better. But I but I do stand by giving Laurel the heads up have really.

Happened, what really happened, because I don't think that was fair to like put all the targets on all of us. And she's done a sense then from what I've heard, it was.

Wild and I you know, but I do fully understand your rationale. Here everything feels so monumentous and so big. Yeah, when you really feel like somebody's your friend and they go ahead and do that, you just like it feels like a real true betraying.

Yeah, it's like and in real life, like how often you actually experience that?

Almost never, so like in that circumstance, you're like, oh my god, this is like Shakespearean. I was stabbed totally totally and uh and I get it, and every you know, people or is like ask like if I were to go back, like how would I play? And I always think that I would just be like a confessional gangster and like cut people left and right and be like I'll do whatever I want and I'll just like play

Yeah, things happen and you have to like be able to alter your strategy like immediately.

Yeah, it can get it can get messy.

It definitely get me.

Honestly, props with Teresa for being that messy girl.

I kind of loved it. That was like I was like, she's really going for it.

And then.

Too, it's yeah, all of these things, but she should just owned up to her choice is the thing?

Right, Like, you're right? That was actually very smart, like well play, but then her like I don't know why people come after me and everybody's just so mean.

It's like, now, look you got it, like if you're gonna you know, the same way Laurel owned up her kill list right was like.

Look, oh my god, I'm murdering first. Oh I'm executing. That was iconic.

Okay, wait, so before we go any further, we need to take a quick break.

We'll be right back after this.

Okay.

On my on my notes, I have episode six is for the girls.

Are we going to episode six? We gotta wrap on five.

We could talk about it.

We could go yeah, we could go yeah, we.

Could talk about six. Six was for the girlies and I was here for it. We got we like we got the Jordan and Bananas beef out in episode five, and then this one became the girls and I and this one I like loved because I loved the trivia challenge.

It was so fun, Risa.

What is the largest country in the world Canada? The correct answer is Russia.

I forget about that, Like whoever thinks of Russia? I forgot they even exist?

All right?

What is a female deer called a joe? Just like the song?

Right?

All right, car Maria.

What continent does the USA belong to?

Continent?

What is a continent?

Continent is the word that is tripping me up? Continent the northern continent.

The correct answer is North America. So hilarious, and I loved that, Like the narrative was centered around all you'll girls even like from the jump in the van and like you had the van of the allies in that band, we had it.

I know that Devon had questioned some things I didn't realize.

Yeah, I may have questions things that night in that van.

That's the day that Iannie and I are very similar kissers. And I said that to her, she was like, I'm a good kisser. I'm like, well, so clearly we're kissing each other, Like, just shut up. It was we didn't give a ship, none of us.

I don't know what we had.

Oh that's because we could trink before we left.

Oh is that what happened?

Is that why we were there?

Oh?

No, I mean listen, they didn't cast like unattractive people, so it wasn't like you were in a van with a bunch of a bunch of youah people that weren't.

Now, but we were just all like super uninhibited in that. I mean, it really was. That poor driver of that band that day.

I'm sure.

I'm sure he has nothing. He had years, he's had years of just footage in his mind. Yeah, we did not, And that's before you would think that kind of behavior would happen, Like after the club, we were like yeah, no, no, no, no, no, we're doing it before we get to Moby Dick's.

Yeah yeah, yeah, the definite free party. I loved it.

What did you think of Frank in watching the guy's band scene and where c was like sign the release and just all of all of that dynamic that's playing out.

What was your analysis that Oh my.

God, next like get out of here, get out.

It was as it was a mess.

It was a mess.

And again it's just like bays being like who's got a bigger dick? And it's like y'all, yeah, y'all. You know who's got the biggest dick is Preston because he's getting it wet over on the other.

Bus, right, So true it is, and it's like not a care in the world. The other bus was just so like dry and angry, and I was like, m hm, are we in the same place, Like we're in order way, We're getting paid to be here, we're doing cool ship and we're heading to the bar, our bar, moby dicks and.

We get to McDonald's on Saturdays, right, you guys are.

As like idiots?

Yeah.

I hated that. That was the tension, the tension Van and I was not for watching it back made uncomfortable.

Yeah, who had more sexual tension? It was obviously them Lena and and for the I can't believe we didn't get one. Maybe there was.

They're not signed the release It was like sign me up for your only fans babies.

And not what are your doctor? Fox's other notes.

I loved the trivia. I thought it was so funny. But like those questions are so wildly varied between person to person, like they were like name the national language of Australia and versus like spelled disguise, live here on the scene, like get out of here? Those are not the same.

No, they're not that Leroy did did I did? Scott's so funny.

Some of them.

That was some of the best.

Hunter and I just have to ask Anissa which country has the most population to high school?

See let me, let me explain what had happened. I was like, I was thinking, like, I know, Africa is a continent, so I was like, oh ship. And then I'm like Asia is a continent and I knew about countries, but I wasn't.

I was.

I was like working through it like out loud and then trying to think of countries in Africa versus like China. So that upset me because I am smarter than that. And it isn't as bad as as Dutch being the official language.

And I cannot. Yeah, that was really it was really awful. I mean, there were a lot that worked.

Wait Mahatma Gandhi Kara thinking that Gandhi was a famous boxer.

I'm just happy she did that name, right, I mean, so we'll give it to her, right.

I think there are some people that are super smart, that are good at trivia, that sometimes the heights gets to you, and there are people that have no clue what's going on on land or above the above the ocean or body of water.

Yeah, yeah, I mean look and TJ.

I love trivia because, especially this season, because you get to see TJ's personal Like you could tell how much fun TJ was having, psyching us.

All out on different things and making you think, did you get it right? Did you not get it right? Like he was clowning people.

He clowned in me to when she you into water, he clowned me where I thought specific ocean was wrong for a second and it was right, like he I love seeing.

PJ really kind of like shine who he is beyond just giving the rules and the whatever I think trivia securate way he really is he really? Do you think.

Right? Do you think you would have done well at trivia?

I can listen. I was so nervous. Y'all were going to make me try to spell something out loud. I don't know that I could spelling out loud really so hard if you're on the spot, like the other questions, like yes, those like the trivia questions, but like those spelling ones, I was likell irresistible.

Oh okay, well that is not just as easier resisted, but I are are okay.

I R R A E S G I B l E.

That sounds about right.

I don't know.

Yeah, I think that's right, that is correct, But that vow sounded like an eat to me, which would make it correct.

Yeah. Yeah, it is hard when you're up there. You don't have any point of reference.

No, I love that.

I loved it.

I loved your Backfloppingisa.

I loved tells us on with like fishing wire. And Nannie was crying the whole time. She was I know, and my legs are fully hyper extended to the point where any doctor would have been cuttsncerned. Yeah, but that's my anatomy. But it was that was not that was not fun fall. But comparatively, it's not as bad as other things that I've done. Yeah, I'll take I'll take the I'll take the dental floss over a lot of things.

All right, I've just been over here trying to figure out if I spelled her resistible.

Correctly or not.

Yeah, I don't know, but you said in E right, Sure, I said.

I R R E S I N C I V a people listening podcast and be like, these people are stupid, We're not smart.

Yeah, that's right, Devin.

That like playground intimidation technique with the magic marker, and Laurel and.

I could not.

Let's write it down.

Laurel then pulls a G move, and by G I mean gangster. Laurel is making her execution list.

Let's just call it what it is.

One two three, You're fifth, Like, before I even think of you.

Think about what the odds are of me coming back from an elimination, and then recognize that I will have no problem whatsoever saying your name.

Just take that into consideration. She was like, I'll see you on the I'll see you on the playground.

Like it was hilarious because I remember going to her, And again, the reason you see me talking to her is because I had a.

Thing where I always would tell people if I was going to be voting for you, that was just my.

Own personal standard. And I actually feel like many people in the house ended up kind of doing that, and we saw.

Who was it. Someone asked Zach if they were going to tell Swift that that he was, if he was going to tell with from and Zach was like, Zach was like no, but that that kind of became I think cts that. But yeah, we kind of would tell people. And so I was just talking her and I do.

I remember literally going in kind of confidently but being like, Okay, look, I'm gonna tell you. How's gonna go like this that I decided and she pulled out that cute list, and I remember just the power dynamics of that moment.

A hundred like just did a complete one eighty. I am not gonna lie. And even though I would vote the one in charge of voting or whatever, that girl one hundred percent took the power in her own hands. And I remember leaving that meeting being like, well, definitely not voting Laureland, Like, I'm just like that was that.

She took the crayola in her own hands, that she said I'm gonna write this out.

She that's very her, you know, And that was very her in the moment, and I still feel pieces of like, not the list as much anymore, but but I understand her more now, and I think that that changes the dynamic of like our friendship.

Because then was a whole other Yeah, you were going you were gunning for her, for sure.

I wasn't gunning for her until she When she came for me, I was like, Oh, all right, Sis, that's how we're gonna play this. But I would have kept her off the table until before the final, and then I would have thrown her in.

I would have too. Teresa and tricked me to vote for her. I will say this that she was true to her word, which I appreciated, which is the thing I didn't appreciate about Teresa. So she and I had that conversation, and it was true. She never came after me.

Now, look, I know I'm not a threat for her in any capacity, but still it was never whether I performed well on a daily or not or blah blah blah.

Like from that point forward, even though I had voted her in that time before, it was she was, you know, up and up, and that I appreciated value.

She cared as much about whether you were a threat or not. It was like more about like integrity and how she felt you played the game. I really feel Yeah, now that I've played a game with her and we've kind of been like on the same side of things, understanding her more so that like her, she's not really kind of condescending. She's like just doesn't know certain shit, so like it could come off the wrong way. Yeah, but yeah, she kind of played like how Jordan, we

I really yeah, Andreie's out for me on her She was never unkind to me, So I don't have anything negative to say, right like, but I just don't understand her, like uh maybe like her psychic psyche, her approach to the game, like you know what I mean.

I think she's very formulated, because I agree. I actually really like Laural and always happened. We never had an issue Outside of the game. She's been very supportive. She used to come over my house with her dog Louis way back in.

The day around the challenge days. Like, I really like Laurel h in that way, but I feel like she she you know, she's been described as robotic, and I think that's an extreme but I do think she's very pragmatic. It's like a very black and white thing when she plays.

Whereas the rest of us, even if we're trying to play with pragmatism, there's emotion gets involved, you know, like you said earlier, and he's like, if you feel a friend betrayed you, or if you feel this, or like the power dynamics was that, you know, there are feelings. Even of the most kind of like logical of us, feelings get involved in kind of muddy things up. And for her, even when feelings are involved, it's still pretty like cut and dry.

Yeah, yeah, I hear that. I hear that.

Yeah.

It was just interesting to watch because it was like a fall on intimidation technique, right. I was just like WHOA, And I wasn't there to see it, So like if I had been there, I would have. It's just like such an interesting thing to see and like almost debrief on. I would have loved to have debriefed on that in the moment and been like, yo, what Yeah.

I was there to see it, and it was impressive. I you know, it was a masterful. I respect it. You'll do come to me with the list anytime. And I also think I'm glad I told her. Who would have thrown me in anyway?

Yeah, lists can be problematic, so when we've seen that in more recent challenges.

Yes, but yes, Mikayla was that who it was.

Mikayla got voted off episode one because she wrote a list down and people found it, and then she tried to deny about it.

Yeah, and then the girl was gone before.

The looking through everything trying to find everything.

I was at least trying to find evidence.

Wait, you went through people's bags looking First off, I relax her bag.

I looked in her bed area, and I may have peeked in an open pocket of a backpack. She's unware drawer, and I didn't do that. She kept everything in her backpack. She she didn't even I don't even know she There were so many people in that house. I don't even know if she had a drawer. Yeah, like there was

Who this Michaela like from Survivor Michaela? Yeah, ooh, I loved her Survivor.

As a fan love you would have loved her in the half a episode she was in the challenge.

To Yeah, we would have had at minutes.

She got kicked. I hopefully she comes back because I don't think she got a fair shake to like, yeah, no, and.

She she was good.

She was right behind us in that first one.

And if I would have gotten anything a little slower the puzzle wise, like she would have.

She would have beat us.

So it's just yeah, she's a good competitor and yeah, definitely definitely good for TV.

Yeah, what are your other takes aways from this?

Uh?

Oh well, okay, actually the breakdown of Camilla.

So I know, I'm just hoping that I'm able to keep it together. I'm struggling to stay in the game.

I still don't understand why she broke down so much going against Theresa in that it seemed out of care, like just's weird that she cried with the pole breath, like she just gave up.

She literally just like she didn't have anything.

I thinking on.

Yeah, actually, like it was I was legitimately sad watching it, Like it was sad looking at her crying in the sand like that, Like so you were watching the manifestation of somebody like giving up.

In a very low sense, and it was just like, yeah, yeah, it was sad there it was. Yeah, it was because it didn't feel like you know, I mean people do eventually.

One person loses gas in the tank, right, That's how someone gets eliminated every time, and and you can see it and there's but it seemed just like a break get like the real grumbling, which was.

Like I don't know if it was that fight or whatever else, had like taken a toll on her where she was like I don't think I can do this game period, you know. And I think she did leave at the right time. I forgot. We had a conversation after this the show, and she had said something to me so it could have been more than that.

Yeah, watching back Frank, who would you say, like from the Frank now looking at the characters that were then, who are the like three to five people that you think Frank now would have been or would be friends with, like like as they were, not whoever they are now, but just like you're sitting out as they were in the moment, Yeah, as they were in the moment.

Yeah, I mean I think, I mean, y'all, we have fun, we did, say.

John Nay, Johnny and I were always close.

We always had a fun time and even in like you know, we like we shared stuff outside of the show, even up until this point, like we hit lows, we hit highs, we like did it together. And she's a great She's a loyal friend for sure. Like you can you can discount on whatever you'd like, but like, loyalty is certainly not one of.

Them discounter on ship.

She wanted to Yeah you know, yeah, I know it's amazing, Mama John.

Yeah, but yeah, I so, I don't know. I think, like, if I'm honest with myself, I was always buddies with Isaac. I love him. I think it's hilarious, a sweetie, fun and like I just don't feel like he's got He doesn't. He doesn't have like a bad he doesn't have nothing insidious about him. He's just like I agree, he's like a fun seeking person, which is like a really affective thing.

Do we remember.

What Swift did to cause Isaac to put on all of Swift's clothes and get in the hot tub? Wait no, no, no, no, wait no, what do you do he put I don't remember, but he put on Swift's You know how Swift would always come with like a blazer and like a scarf and ship, where are you going?

We didn't get invited to.

He was just like giving like literary realness.

Every day. And then he did something to piss off and Isaac instead of being malicious like this wasn't mean spirited, but it was funny, put on his trousers, his his loafers, a shirt, maybe even a blazer, and then went and sat in our hot and then all on. And that's what kind of person Isaac is. So I love him and I miss him. Shout out to Isaac.

Yeah great, I had a wild newars even him once in Mexico City, like truly one of the wildest nights of my life.

It was, it was it was something for the books, and some of them we do not talk about on this podcasts like that you don't regret though, from looking back and seeing who I'd be friends with.

Our regret not like trying to build a better relationship with Preston. And I think it's because, like you know, at the time, it was almost like there was only space for one queer reason, there's only space for one gay guy, like truly, like it always felt like that, it always felt like there was only enough air for one of us, and that like there was this weird unspoken competition that, you know something, someone had to be the dominant.

And I just don't think that that.

I think that narrative is far and gone from my life now, and I would have loved to have like developed a better relationship with them.

Back in the day. That's really sweet.

Yeah, and I get that. Yeah, that is really sweet.

That's a truth. I really do think about that.

Frank, we didn't to circle back. There's no way to properly segue this, so I'm so going to it. What did your husband think when he watched on the show, because you said before he was like, Okay, I have to see it, So what did what did you think?

Yeah, so I think he you know, like looking back to the lens, he was like sort of grossed out by like just the interactions in general.

If I'm totally honest, He's just like I can't.

Believe that these were issues that became so explosive or so like like gigantic. And as far as like my we only watched like an episode two, So as far as like my behavior went, and I gave him the worst of it, I wanted to show him like when I was at my worst behavior.

He was just like, look your kid. Like he was like, I can see that you're a kid and you're mad. And I would be sad too if someone didn't like me because I was gay. Like this is wild, this is a crazy thing. And so it was like almost like sort of like validating to understand that, like my feelings were not necessarily incorrectly placed my the articulation of those feelings, the like flashing out, all of that can be fixed. And you know, I'm sort of happy that everything.

What a gift?

And like you said, sure my page is that not a right?

Now?

Like my own life, I do my own thing. We go on nice, we go on nice drifts and nice things, nice shift all around us.

Yeah.

Now I can represent myself better and I can articulate how I feel better, and I'm not afraid of conflict. I engage in conflict, but I can do it with finesse now, and that's like such a gift, I think.

Yeah, yeah, oh I love that.

I love that.

Okay, so is there anything else before we wrap and come back anytime?

I'm just gonna I know anything mean feels the same way, come back literally anytime you come next week, you can come anywek but.

Before we wrap, if is there anything that you would want the listeners to know, just whether it is.

Sort of the key lesson you've learned between that, young Frank then to where you are now, whether it's something that you want, you know, kind of a dress or that you've never had a chance to speak on regarding the show.

Or if it's just a do you want to tell everybody to kick rocks with no socks and open toad shoes? I don't know. But what's the what is Frank's message to the people.

Ooh, that's a big thing to you know, take your home up. But I would just say, like for us who were contestants on the show and reality TV, personality is for the castes exist today for the pass across a lot of reality shows. Just like approach stuff with love, y'all, Like we are people, we are learning, We are putting ourselves out there to learn so that you can learn from us too, Like there are so there's so many opportunities on reality TV. It is such an insanely cool forum.

And I think just.

Approach stuff with love and understand that, like for the most part, we're growing, we're changing, and we're adapting to the things that we see too. So like you don't got to remind us that we were shith heads. We know, we know where shit heads, and we're making it and we're doing the work.

At hope we are.

I hope, I hope.

Yeah, yeah, some of some of us are doing the work. Yeah, but yeah, beautifully said, beautifully said Nina. You have to continue.

You need more time with Frank.

I would love to get drinks with y'all if we're.

Yes, Listen, I went to Austin once. It was brief. It wasn't a great trip. I hated it, so I have to come back.

And come back. I got space and I got our pool is almost done, almost almost been almost done for about ten months, but it's almost done.

I kind of get harassed by your by your dogs, and that's it. I'm happy.

Yeah.

Yeah, and dance pretty dance pretty great to y'all.

Yeah, and your husband, Yes, tell Dan, we're the normal ones were.

That would be fun.

We should my maid of honor is in he was in Austin actually, so yeah, it's fun.

It's a great city. It's really fun. Y'all come to it.

Yeah, we will all be that now. For those I know he's picking up a y'all.

Those want to keep up with.

Doctor Fox, where can they find you on social Oh I'm.

A little I'm also Twitter. I'm on Twitter.

I just don't really happen so on Twitter, I'm still watching.

I'm still like maybe giving you a little like commentary around housewives every now and then on Twitter, and then I'm definitely giving you some political commentary. But I'm mostly here for fun, mama, So like, I'm not really doing all hell of a lot on social media right now. But but you can still follow me on Twitter if you'd like, and you'll get a tweet about politics every other week.

What's your Twitter handle?

For those who don't know, it's just Frank Sweeney Fox.

There you go, Frank Sweeney Fox. For those who also just want to send your love and say that they miss you.

Yeah, no, I've listen. I've never said I never said I would not go back. I'm not. It's not a it's not forever.

Let me know, so I can possibly show up.

Maybe we're doing it together.

You know, I got, I got.

This time.

But we're drinking wine and talking.

Ship together, like taking B twelve in the back, just.

Like right right right, literally, I have mine by Monday, Sunday, crew Saturday. That's how it's lined up, a M P M vitamins. Thank you.

Yeah, oh yeah, it's gotta happen. No, no, I've never ruled it out.

It would be fun, agreed, Agreed, Frank as expected. This is such a delight and touch and joy and it can't be this long again. We can't make it this long.

And I will own my part in it and not keeping in touch because it's so great to talk to you.

It's really great.

Congratulations, like have the best, absolute best wedding. And he said, so thank you to see you and my partner and I would go back to Philly. We're gonna, we're gonna, yes, yes, good luck this weekend.

Thank you, love you bye. Oh time with Francis. How lovely it's been so long, My goodness, I love these rewatches. It's cool to like talk to people who we've not heard from in a very long time, Anissa, for people who don't want it to be a long time between when they hear from you. Those who want to follow you on social where can they find you?

I'm still on Twitter and you probably have been adding me, but I still can't log in, and you know what, I've had some thrilling couple of months, so uh, don't follow me there. But you can follow me on Instagram at Anissa MTV. That's a N E E s A MTV on Instagram. I still can't change my name there either, but that's where you can find me.

But at least what it's consistent that they can find you. At least it's not judging. I'm consistent, that's true, That is true.

And where can they find Where can they find all things?

Den?

I'm I'm consistent, but I'm also redundant, which means you can find me at Devin'smone TV, y N s I, m oh and e on all things. So you can go to Devinsimone dot com, scroll to the bottom and steal socials. You can go to Devin Simone on Instagram, Devin'smone on Twitter, or TikTok.

You could also.

Go to Roku and watch me on my project called match Me and Miami. Uh, and just look for Devin Simone.

There, yeah, or Amazon all the things, even though my last.

Name will be changing soon, but it'll really sap. All my accounts still be Devin Simone, all right.

And then once you do that, because I know you like this, because show Frank some love, show us some love. We love having you here, Please rate.

And review us on Spotify or a podcast or both, and tell a friend, Tell all your friends, tell your neighbors, you know, tell that squirrel that keeps coning your.

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And then we'll see you and the squirrel right back here next week for a brand new episode if We're all inclusive. Official Challenge Podcast, The Girl's Favorite Place.

I was gonna say it's gonna be nuts.

Yes, yes,