Come Michele or High Water w/ Jakk Maddox

matter now? I got? Yeah, I got. I got refrustrated. I know that's not a word. I don't think that's an actual thing, but I got frustrated. One will gan Okay. It's it just sends you back to those feelings of like what just what is happening in this game? Yea? And are these my friends? It makes you just question everything. Yeah, I mean, do you right now? Are they your friends? Would you say? Um? I mean Michelle and I are

cool and I will have love for her. I just feel like certain people like I don't think they will ever be able to like I can't say never, um, but working with them in the game, I don't know. If that would ever happen, I wouldn't go after them. I just don't see us aligning with one another because

the trust is not there. But outside of it, you know, I feel like I could hang out with Michelle down the shore, I could go shopping with her, we could go on a trip like I could see hen that way, and yeah, yeah, you just can't trust them or rely on them, especially when it comes to the game. For now, Yes, unless there's like a big turnaround and they both I mean, girl,

how much turning can you do? I don't. I don't know when you just end up in a circle down, Yes, right, because that was a lot they made it was that was It was a lot. Now I will say, you know, the viewers are challenge listeners. I know for a long time some people really hate it when it feels like the VET are taking over the game or take over the house when things are just kind of as they are.

I was talking to shout out to Joe, producer at the Sherry Shepherd's show, friend of mine, who loves the challenge. We were talking about this in the strategies from last week's episode, and arguably if we were to give props where they're due. Jay and Michelle did orchestrate one of the most interesting or dynamic eliminations where we have heavy hitter team. You know, we literally have two former Challenge

winners on teams going against each other. We have you that's in a goat and an elimination, you know, Jack who just killed it an elimination last week, going against each other. I mean that, and to even get that done, they also included two other heavy hitter teams, including Bananas and not like they made the bets eat themselves this week, and they also yes, they also I mean made good TV. I'm not gonna take anything away. I think it was

a phenomenal episode. Mm and I think that the episodes are just going to keep getting better because people are going to these decisions are going to keep getting harder every week. Right, there's no way that you're gonna tell me that, like potentially eight people are going to be in this final or ten or whatever. And we got to get rid of the majority of the house. You don't have to vote your friends in, right, you can't. You can't take them where it's okay, you know, that's

where it's like, okay, we're playing the game. So and you're fun about it. Because here it's like there was a lot you can't not be up front because about it. There's gonna be a point I feel where like they're only going to be one team safe or two teams,

you know, two pairs safe. Just hope that your friends win at that point, yeah, because you ain't got there's no one to blame at that point, there's no fingers, like you gotta just know where you stand with people and say your prayers and journal absolutely and someone who you know, I don't know if it's journaling would have helped or saying prayers would have helped in this one. But let's go to time out of the week and gold Star of the week. So I'm putting Jay Michelle

in time out. We knew that. I think they need to go in a time out this time and just kind of like go back to the drawing board. I mean they needed to sit there, like sit sit with their feelings. I'd like them to sit there for an hour. Yeah, not a ten minute time out. I mean I need an adult time out in a in a big corner for them. Absolutely, who's your gold star of the week. I want to give a gold star for style points this week to Nellie. T Okay, he flipped his legs up.

I didn't know what he was doing. I thought he was going to fall on the zip line. Yeah, he just turned into like a little acrobat. And um yeah, I've just been really proud of Nellie and his achievements this season so far. Breaking a fifty four daily's loss will do a lot, do a lot to you. Um, My time out of the week goes to Miss v. We see Veronica specifically telling Durrell it's not amigo. Oh my god, it's not amigo when amigos is definitely definitely

one of the words. And see, this is that time when you can't always listen to your partner. At least she should have listened to Durell. Durell should not have listened to her. So my time out goes to Veronica.

Love you but girl. That was just it was funny to watch, but especially because when they put it next to the scenes where everyone else is figuring out that amigo is the word, and then you have Brian it is not amigo, right, And then my gold Star of the Week for two different reasons goes to my man Jordan.

It goes to Jordan for watching how he encouraged Jack even while competing against him, the way he hugged Laurel and gave her encouragement at the end, like he just watching Jordan's evolution in this game, and like an emotional intelligence capacity just over the seasons has been really beautiful to watch. Love that about Jordan for Jordan's but also he's not afraid to be petty because when he sat across from Jay. He gets a gold star for this too,

and just lit Jay up. Was the silence for me before. I wish you would have seen like they were like, you gotta talk. I'm like, I'm not saying shit. Yeah, I wish they would have absolutely not. I feel like they should just show that clip of you guys sitting in silence before before Jordan pops off, just eyeing each other back and forth. It was beautifully done. Yes yes

to Jordan and saying that. And also can I say you in the FUSHA and your confessional look that thank you Si, and he said I love that on you. It looked Good's actually backwards because I didn't want all the girls to come out. But it's good to pep too much because it's it's showing the thing. It was good. I was like, okay, all right, thank you, yes, thank you. I just hate the green screen because it looks like I have a helmet. Sometimes I just wish they just

let my curls be. They were popping in all their glory in that moment where great in the fusha someone else that looks great today, You guys won't get to see him, but but we got to see him while interviewing him. Our man Jack is here so excited. We wanted to have our girl Laurel. There's currently a hurricane happening, so we're praying for Laurel. Keep it, keep it good and safe, and say of you because we wanted, we

were supposed to have her here. We love her. Since by the way, doctor Laurel, let me just come correct, doctor Laurel, doctor Stucky. Yes, but we have Jack here who is giving us so much cheat. So make sure you stay tuned. Go, get a snack, you know, start your jog, your walk, your ride to work, whatever it is that you're doing. Buckle up, because this is gonna be an interesting ride. You're gonna learn a lot and learn a lot about Laurel from people who really know

her like a different side of Laura. We're gonna talk about it all right after we take this quick commercial break, so stay tuned. It's gonna be good. Here we are at our favorite time in the podcast where we get to interview one of the cast members from the Challenge. Rider Dies Today. It is my great honor and pleasure to have this breakout star Jack Matic. No, really, you were reading the girls for filth. Every interview, I mean nothing but suffers on my mind and it just comes out.

I'm straightforward like and anything I would say there, I would say to your face. So it's I don't know, it's just reality. I love I love that because a lot of people are not like that, and I think that the audience is receiving you so well. The girl with the pink hair. Yeah, how was doing your first Challenge? Jack? Did you have like what was it coming into this experience for you? You know, I had really no expectations, Like I Laura asked me if I wanted to do it.

I watched as many seasons as I could to kind of like understand it. So I think I started at like Dirty thirty, went up from there, and then like watched the seasons that she was on to um. But even just like absorbing all of that in a short amount of time, it really you can't predict what's going to happen. So I stuck to my cardio training and stuck to like all different kinds of stuff. I knew mentally, I'm really smart, so I knew I could handle kind

of anything thrown my way. And yeah, zero expectations, but I guess a lot of different outcomes. So basically, it sounds like you came in knowing you were going to read the girls for filth and that you were already in shape. That's that's what I'm getting from you, Jack, That's that's sort of kind of I mean, I don't plan to like read anybody, like when people are like, oh, you're always reading somebody, You're always this. So it's just like that you can't get read unless you're giving context.

So like you gave me that to throw back at you. Your behavior was your behavior, and I said what I said, Yeah, I don't think that's like a problem. No. If you could see the lovely face he's making as he says that, by the way, with like such a smile, like such joy, charismatic smile. I love it and that makes sense, totally makes I think it's great when people just are authentically themselves, and I feel like there are, especially with coming into

this challenge. It's it's intimidating, it's overwhelming. Um, people do put on the mask, they do put on a facade. They want the callback. They want like you are who you are twenty four seven. And my favorite moment is you in the gym, which we did spend a lot of time in our makeshift prison gym, Um, not the prison gym. Yeah, I mean it was it was like outside Jim yea with these like medieval like plates and we ran in circles in the yard. It was it

was pretty brutal. But you waiting and asking Jay like so I think the cameras are waiting for this apology, like is it going to happen? Well, they were like Jay comes over, like obviously the cameras are going to follow. They're waiting for us to break the ice, start the discussion. And I'm like the balls in your court, buddy, like you need to come apologize to me. Like the camera

zoomed in on you, like let's start the scene. Because and he had he not said anything to you after like after we see the last nation now, because clearly it's the next morning. Had he not even like broke the topic with you, or was yeah, what was happening? Oh, Jay? And I didn't speak when we got back into the house. Um,

Laurel actually advised me not to talk. She said, let's not start because I wanted to go in and I want to start with them, and I wanted to like just be aggressive and just you know, be an asshole and you know show them like, you know, go fuck yourself. Laurel was like, let's not do that. Let's try to be nice. And I was like, where is this coming from? Yeah, not going to explode on them, and we're gonna keep

it together. So I hadn't spoken to him till that morning, and I was like, all right, I'm gonna listen to my partner. I'm gonna keep it cute, try to like be funny a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, Laurel even surprised me in this episode. Yeah, she was very different in this episode. I feel like this is on this side. I feel like everybody needed to see if her. Oh

my god, yeah, very honest. I mean there were the stone cold I mean stone, cold faces and exactly what everybody was of, like, why don't you just ask a question? Because we Jordan and I came into that interview that we were quiet too, and they were like, you guys are going to talk and we were like, no, we have nothing to say. And I think Jack and Laurel felt the same way. But it was it was crazy. It's not crazy to see, but it was nice to

see Laurel be vulnerable. It was nice to see her open up about how she felt because I feel like we don't get to see that side of her. I think you being there helps too, to kind of like break her out of that. Do you feel like she came into the house this season, because obviously I had the pleasure of being a challenged with Laurel, and I always feel like we had moments where we would talk about stuff outside of the game and I got to see a peek at her like fun and humanistic side

and feelings and all of that stuff. But also knew that when it comes to gameplay, Laurel is Laurel is a machine like period. She just is, which is why she's so talented. But it seemed almost like at this season as a viewer, she came in off the bat with a little bit more like this then before. So do you feel like what we see in this episode, do you feel like it was a progression like throughout that this season or did she come off the bat

kind of you know, more vulnerable open? Yeah. I think Laurel is always just herself and she's always just you know, doing whatever it is that she wants to do, and acting however it is she wants to act, and she does in front like everything is always one hundred percent. It's always honest. But coming into this game, I mean, she graduated veterinary school like two weeks before, which is so cool. Doctor Laurel. Shout out to doctor Laurel. I love it to see her. You got to see her

around animals too, she just falls apart. It's so great. Which thing gears like that is not easy and she still did. Yeah, that is two completely different things to go and do, and I don't think anybody else could pull something like that off. Another I agree, and actually another really good point. You have to be a very empathetic person to become a vet like that by design is what it is. So I think that's a testament to this whole other side of Laurel that people don't

always get to see. I mean, she's dedicated to help me in her she is a very yeah, passionate, empathetic person, but she's not going to take no ship. And then when well, when she reacts to you know, people's behavior, they're like, so caught off Garden. I'm like, you're getting

exactly what you deserve. Yeah, you know, I think a lot of people are comfortable disrespecting people, disrespecting women, and they don't expect them to react in the way that she does, and especially even other players in the game. And like men do that all the time, but they don't have like this reputation of being like this angry, snap back right person, but she does so to me, I don't see her that way at all. I think she responds correctly to how she's treated most of the time,

and she is at in extremely empathetic person. Yeah, something that was interesting to me. Okay, we're going to switch to years a bit, so as we're watching this daily challenge right, Well, first question is how did you guys feel about it when TJ announced the rules. Were you excited about this particular daily where you get like, where does it ranked amongst kind of the oh crap factor, you know, when TJ says this is what you're gonna

be doing today. We were pretty excited, you know, going into that daily We looked at it, We're like, this is pretty cut and dry, straightforward. It was all the things that we were good at. Laurel like from the bat was like, I want to do the rope part because I got the swimming, I got the heights running, you got the cranking like puzzles like these were all things we divided and we're like, this has got to work. And that hole was just so deep, you know, but

it was not It was not right. That hole was not right. And I rarely say that do you know any no, what do you mean by the hole was not right? It wasn't. When they were like it's a meter, it's a meter wide, and it's a meter I hate because who knows what a meter is? Meter wide, meter deep? And Jordan was like, I mean I searched with him. We were like where, I mean it took us forever to find. I was the last girl to leave with

my bag and Jordan was there for forever. Yeah, what you don't see is the amount of time it took for people to get there. It was actually beneficial to be last because you got to see everybody's words. Wait, why when you walked, because how you can walk behind you? Oh to swam up you could see everybody's Oh. I mean they were big enough when you were there to be able to see them and put it together. Right.

But I'm kind of I don't know Jack if you are, I mean, because this is the episode where you guys leave, But all of this talk about like we're friends, we want to see where your head's at, like we want to work together. Whatever do you think that them winning Michelle and Jay winning this this daily shows like who they actually are? Like did we need to see this?

I didn't even need for them to confirm I know, I mean it was so obvious, like what they were going to do, how they were going to move, They made a deal with literally everyone in the house. All of their accusations were comely false, like Michelle being like so afraid of Laurel and not being able to get her words together, And yeah, that was weird. I knew

exactly we were going in. It wasn't It wasn't shocking at all, And like you knew exactly how they were going to do it, Like they put Nannie down there with her girlfriend. Obviously it's going to be you and I, you know, verse each other at that point. Well, yeah,

and that's that was my point. Yeah, when let's take it back to last week really quick, because in this episode we see some reference where it seems like people are collectively mad at Jay and Michelle before they before they even win this week, before they even put more people in. So were there people with I'm assuming everyone in the house knowing how close you guys were, what was the name of the band? You guys had the Chinese Takeout? The Chinese Takeout, um knowing you know that

Chinese Takeout was prepared to go on tour. Were other people in the house sort of mad for you when you came back or side eyeing Jay and Michelle because they sent in their friend Jay sent in And yeah, I mean I think the only person that really like stuck up for us was Amber. Like first after our elimination, Amber was like the only one to really tell Michelle like that was not that wow moved because I had we had we didn't have really any alliances with anybody

that's not how we played the game. Laurel said, like, you know, we go there, we work with people as it kind of goes along. Yep, Like there's not like a predetermined alliance. We didn't come in. Yeah, we all have each other's backs. Like it was like, you know, you showed me have yours and then moved from there.

So Amber was one of those people. So like Amber and Michelle were working together, but then Amber was like, you're going for somebody who really has our back, so like, not only you fucking with their game, but you're fucking with mine. Yeah. So Amber was really the only one that kind of said that maybe, but I just bitched

you behind closed doors. What were you saying? And I was living saying I was living because he so I called him my breakfast bitch because we would have breakfast every morning before our morning poops and um, and then we'd go take a nap and then like come back. I mean Jack, Jack was my babe. Yeah, running around in our crocs. I just this is the part that was that was funny to me because Michelle and I are friends, or you didn't tell us what you were

bitching about during your breakfast with your breakfast. Oh, I was just I was just over it because this is my thing. If you are telling me, and I know that Jack probably feels the same way. It was like putting putting Nanny and Johnny and Kat and Kenny down there,

you're basically guaranteeing that I'm gonna go. I was thinking that when even if you put me in the draws, you gave me the least amount of a possibility to get I was thinking that unless I picked the same and then you'd put me in a shitty position with my friends to then send in my girlfriends, my friend's girlfriend or my friend's girlfriends. Yeah. Yeah, so either way you were gonna put Jack and I and especially because Laurel is close close with nar just putting people in

these shitty positions. And I get it that it's a game, but if we say that we care about these people, when you're intentionally giving me no way out or not giving Jack away out, when you're basically guaranteeing us up, you should have just voted us both in. Yeah. I mean I I kind of feel like they would have if they could have. I was the point of being like, I want to know where your head's at and then you tell that girl it didn't seem like they had

a point. They want object a circle. They didn't have

anything with their strategy. It was wild. Now I will ask this as a viewer because there was a comment that Jay made at some point where he was like, you know, at this point, we kind of have to vote in a third of the house anyway, like because the way this game is structured, which I will say, you know, props to producers for things coming out with this and t J and their diabolical plan that because they do have to you have to select so many people,

it is harder to keep your hands completely clean because there's a lot of names you have to say, whether you want to or not. And obviously that's at a real disadvantage if you've made deals with everybody in their mama and catering in the house, but catering. But even cater and Catering's looking over there, like Jay, Michelle too, like you bet not put a scene. You said, Oh, those mommies were in the kitchen cooking up. Shout out to catering. All these women in the shout out catering.

But what were the numbers getting to that place? Or do you think are viable opts, So then who question who would you guys? If you were Jay Michelle, I want to hear some names or teams that you would have put down there instead. Well, it made the most sense to get rid of Bananas from their team perspective, because bananas a sentence. Jay home. They do not like each other, like he just nominated you like two weeks ago.

But somehow Michelle thought that was Laurel's fault. I mean, they had no real ties and if they're going to fuck over their friends, I feel like they don't put anyone in. Who else would they put in? Anyone who know? Need to get us a name they can't say. The one person that they couldn't put in was well, they made a three three week deal with Devon. That seems so weird. How do you know what? I don't get a car lease? Right? Yeah, I didn't get it, and I was so mad at Tory. I'm like, why aren't you?

But then she told me she was like, Anissa, I that's why we were not down there again. Yeah, and it was. It was fishy to me at first, but I expected it. It was obvious they had a deal. No, but they made a deal right before that challenge. Yeah, for one more safe. It was no. I knew they

were working together the whole game. I knew it happened right then and there, just from Devin's behavior, like when it was announced they won, Devin's like super excited now, like he gave it away, and even watching him do the puzzle, like I was down there and I was watching him like he struggling on purpose, because no, he was struggling on he was struggling by it, like he's not so he's dyslex he used to well he's dyslexic, but like he's not good at um like word films. Yeah,

so it was really hard for him. And as a as a friend, I know that, but I don't mean that in a negative way because it was almost like in that challenge, not winning was the move because if you wanted to be right in the middle, yeah, if you had an alliance with somebody who could pull it off every week and just let them win, yeah, you'd be safe. Yeah, like Nelson Nelson and I guess so what had happened was Nelson would have made Jordan his

number one because they're friends. But since we came into the game, late Nelson had already struck a deal with Jay, so I guess Jay was his main man. So I know that that Nelson and Neres weren't going to be put in, and I guess Rossio and Olivia then were attached to that. Oh right, So so then how many other options did they really have? They did it because

of the friendship train. Yeah. I made web yeah list while we were there, and it was like the people who Jay said, I have your back no matter what, and it was like about eight it looked long as hell. And then he lied? Who did he lied? He lied to Jordan A list? Did I blink? He lied to Jordan? And uh. When Jordan asked anything, which shout out to George, Jordan came with all thank you. Jordan came with the smoke, he came with the fire tree, he came with everything

and that moment and nothing he said was wrong. Nothing he was saying was wrong. Now, Anisa, were you scared though when Jordan was popping off like that? Because where you let me let me tell you what happened. We were silent and Jordan went off and I said, I am not gonna stop this growing ass man for speaking because one thing Jordan and I are not, is afraid right, you're going to put us in anyway or we just all he had to say was weak. He doesn't want

Jordan in that game. Yeah, and then you don't want me because if you get me an elimination, I'm probably gonna not you, Jack, but like with a girl, like I'm gonna bust your ass hopefully. But if you're someone who's running a final, you don't want Jordan to be there. Yeah, so just say that ship. And but Jordan wasn't wrong either, and that it was a weak move, like do do Saying one thing doing another is one hundred percent a

week gameplay move. Sorry Jay, but it But that's all they needed to do was just ending their ship and be honest about why we're being sent in there, like yeah, stop the facade and like the fake tears and like yeah, that was that was very weird. I mean she went from hysterically crying about Nanni to then being like, you know what, I'm just gonna send them in. The tears was very so sorry, Like well, and I love yous in the hand holding and like I I Michelle is wonderful.

And by the way, any of my critiques of anyone is not necessarily personally. This is like a cut or assassination. Yeah, this is people in their moments. And like, so I didn't this whole it was. It was hard. It was weird to me, Like the whole thing was strange. Yeah, I didn't get it at all. It was just it was very like turned on and it's just like being blunt and just being straightforward. That's why I was like watching Jordan, like watching that back and how he just

called it straight what it was? Yeah, like do they not do they want the whole house to hate them? Is that was that goal? Listen? I don't think I wish they would have said I had my whole speech in there. What was your speech? Tells your speech? Well, the thing is this is Jack and I were close. This is the first time I think that Laurel and I. I really understood who Laurel was as a person. This is the first time we got along. I loved her. We shared clothes like I was really even when we

didn't like get along, we still shared clothes. But I respected her as as a woman, as a player, as a friend. I just I just got her. Yeah, And it makes when you get Laurel, it makes your experience with her just pleasurable. Like, I agree, and I get it now. Yeah, and I don't want to be on the bad side of that again. So it's it's nice to have a friend in her. Um. What was your

speech though, so you're not getting out of it. I'm down there and I was basically like, listen what y'all did with some bullshit, and whoever comes back in or is not going to make it easy for you. I was like, once you do this, you can't go back right, so know what you did, but whoever comes back is going to come for you. And which shout out to

Journey by the way for the encouragement of you. Jack, and you talk like that was such a beautiful game play, Like I don't know, I feel emotional talking about it's weird, but it was so beautiful. What did you What did it mean to you to have him encouraging you while competing against you and and knowing it's coming from us into your place, I mean, the whole thing. Like, and Laurel said that before you know, we even went in. Normally she has to get into a really angry zone.

That's how you went elimination you go, I'm really angry. It was so hard to go into this angry. I mean, we're going against Anisa, she's going against Jordan. It was just like the different level of emotions we were having. It was weird. And then like he's trying to encourage me and that made me feel soft, like it was beautiful, but then it again softens you down a little bit, you know. But I kept trying to dodge, dodge. I got hit in the face. Oh yeah he did peg

not the moneymaker. Yeah. And there was that long conversation as Laurel was kind of like, so we Jack and I gave her that moment with Jordan where like she just Jordan knew what to say, You knew all the right things to say in that moment to her, and she whispered to me, she was like, keep your promise. Yeah, we'll go back in there and do it. I mean, she basically got everyone to coastide in the house to keep jayme. Michell's as that not anything. I was like, yeah, well,

I know, I just don't. I really don't understand their strategy. I think that some people get especially Michelle. I like her, so it's I know that she gets work. Yeah, I think she. I think that the people that like get emotional in the game, Um, sometimes it's hard for them to check back in and like check their feelings and like get shit together. Yeah. So it's called strategy for a reason, I know, but it just becomes like survival. I think, to like have chaos well, to use their emotions.

I'm using air quotes when I say that, Yeah, I can't tell what all is real all is not, you know what I mean? That is their shot. It doesn't look good to me. It just looks like they came in as potential viable candidates to win or get really far, and as of right now, as it looks, I don't see how in the world they make it far even if they were, aside from winning every single daily, which

we need to know, it's not going to happen. I don't see how, um they're gonna make it that far because everyone's coming for them, and even the people that aren't coming for them are going to side eye them because they have proven their word means nothing. And we gotta keep the same energy. Because it was like you would have thought Annelie and Tommy murdered kittens, right that people right alienate, yeah whatever, keep that same energy for

everybody who does something shady, then that's all. Yeah. I mean it really suck for them because going forward, I mean, you know, if you go to compete everybody, everybody that's watching, and go compete with them again, it's gonna be hard for them to gain trust with a lot of people, and the harder and harder and harder. You can't just do that. Yeah, absolutely, And that unless you guys are true savages like I need less emotion, more savage, So

then I would totally respect like that. It would have been respectable if there's no fake bs, if it would have been straight yeah, right, yeah, because then it shows away. I felt bad for you, Jack, because I mean not like I pitied you. I just felt like Chinese. Yeah yeah, and it made a friend well. Yeah. It was bizarre because we got close like in quarantine, like we were on FaceTime with each other, like that's who I was

talking to the most. I thought it was pretty established because I really hadn't spoken to anybody else like that in the house yet. So that was weird because it was like we're not even on camera and you are developing a friendship with me, So I've been spoken to him since. Yeah, he reached out and apologized. Um, I said, you know, that's very kind to you for reaching out. And then he's like, oh, I do want to hang

out together. I was like, yeah, maybe we can go like grab lanche, sure, go to the gym like kind of talk it out. And then oh yeah, nope, nope. And then what this is the this is the straightforward podcast, Jack, We keep it real, just like you doing your confessionals. So what happened ever that now what he had made a comment and he's like, yeah, I'll bring my good

camera to make like what content? Oh? Absolutely? And I was like returning, like this is our first time hanging out after you just royally fucked me over dollars and you want it to like make content to put on your Instagram. That way the fans don't come for you because you made it do yeah, And I was like, oh it really wasn't sincere Oh. I was like, you had a chance, like to redeem yourself there, like go to lunch, let's talk man to man, settle it out,

like I can move on from something. But that was weird, that robably be the wrong way. So I blocked his number. Oh so you never went out, you guys never like actually met up in person. I blocked the number after that, I will. Before I blocked the number, I had made a couple of jokes because I make jokes and I'm uncomfortable because god camera, and I was like, oh, yeah, you mean only fans content or something like that. Yeah, and then that was it. And then maybe I recommended

my therapist phone number to him. I have a great therapist, and yeah's good. Therapy is great. Do you feel looking back over at all? Now, do you feel like that Jay's intentions when you were getting close during quarantine, you know, like before actually started completely to fuck me over? It was completely a blind time. Yes, so you think it was completely fake? Yeah, I see the full strategy because

he plays the game, which is great. Like if that's you, like you want to like butter people up just to be the snake and like that's how you can get ahead or whatever. I hate this information. So you feel like it was a long con? You don't, So you don't think it was just messy missteps mid game that kind of led to the demisre you of friendship. You feel like he sort of in a way spotted this from the beginning. I had his back, but it didn't

make any sense to make us this target. They could have just said and like how Michelle kind of like said her interview, I'm afraid of Laurel. If you would have said at one point, I'm afraid of you. And then she said something about how Laurel was the reason she was sent in an episode two. Yeah, what was that about? Like, what is Laurel and Michelle's history at their first time meeting? That was their first time meeting again. And if you're not scared of Laurel, something's wrong with you.

She is amazing at this game. She is crafty, she's honest, she's smart. But Laurel never did her like. It was weird, very one sided. I didn't understand the paranoid like I could see her being like paranoid or whatever about her, like if she had started with her or whatever, but they were getting along. They just hadn't spoken. Do you

think there was anything with like the Fessie thing. I mean, Michelle was going around trying to get Laurel sloppy seconds like after every single kind of situation, so she might have been, you know, feeling about that because even when like Arascio and her started to go down, Michelle tried to It was just like where Laurel had left. Michelle was swooping right in and I was like, I gotta drink of water if you like her third, you know, don't hydrate baby. I'm in my casket. I don't think

I could. He's resurrected. Speaking of Laurel's big heart and lots of hugs, was there any point in the game where you were like, did you have a conversation with her or where you're like, what's going on with a Rassio? Do you think did you ever think like it was going to interfere with your game? Um? At first no,

but then because everything was good with what she was doing. UM. I did have concern after she found out Harassio had like a girl at home, because I was like, Laurel's very emotional, like when it comes to boys, she doesn't really just like let her guard down to everybody stride a picky and I was worried that, yeah, she's getting her feelings a little bit, and you know, she needs to be in the zone to compete, not emotional about him. Did you become more worried or less worried when she

moved over to oh Bessie's bed. Well, I knew she moved out of our room in the all of the night. I didn't know she moved into Bessie's brow until the next day. That was a great choice. Like when you saw her getting feelings for Nick Cannon, did you, well, Nick Cannon of the challenge, did you feel like it was a bigger liability or did get me out of here? You know, going back in the cast, Nick can he Bessie is officially he may not be messy, but he is.

Nick Cannon of the Challenge. It's all I'm gonna say. Done. But were you more concerned or were you like, you know, it is no because Bessie. I don't think Laurel Ever really took that seriously. Yeah, okay, it was more so. Here's a big, cuddly man. I'm gonna go cuddle with him. You know, he's quiet, he's easy to get along with. I can see the draw because there's no trauma attatched to it, besides the fact that he's in you know, everybody's pond at the same time. Yeah, I mean everybody.

That's the only drama you know. But besides that for a cuddle buddy, somebody that like he desink, he has real cuddle potential. Not gonna lie. And he's so charming for the listeners you haven't met best like, you know, he smells good in person. He's very like charismatic, all of that stuff. Like many words, but like when he does talk, you're laughing and making so many faces. I mean, no, I mean, I've I love Fessie. We've gone on vacation together. Like he's a way Is that a pond? Has he

been in your pond? And Nissa? Absolutely not okay, just looking out for my good sister, not even like a little friends. Wait, his friend has oh oh you have to text over photos of this friend and he's oh my god, girl, he is fine. Yeah, all right, I'm gonna need you to send that to the group chat. All right, So less concerned about Laurel and Nick I mean Laurel and Fessie. When it comes to Cannon to

the game. He might like that too much. We can't give him that name now that's probably probably abolutely Yeah, we're just gonna call him Fassel. Okay, we need to take a quick break. But we'll be right back right after this. Another thing I wanted to ask I'm so curious about. So we see the like cranking part and

this is back to the daily. So we see and some people when they get to the part where their cranking seemed gassed right like they're like trying to do the little credit of you over there, Jack are just smiling like the most giddy person. Was it? Was it easy? Was it hard? Were you just high off life that day? Like? What? What that was like super easy? I don't know, Okay,

it just sucked that. Like that was like the daily that like was our last because like we had really finally figured out, like I think the week prior, how to work well together, like really figured out and identified each other's strength, each other's weakness is how we needed

to communicate. You know, Laurel needs to kind of like be louder and yell and be like, you know, more in my face and that keeps me really fine insane, and so like like the rowing challenge, like we were in sync, like the elimination the week prior, we were in sync, and then this was just like we were in sync again. But the hole was just really fucking deep damn hole every time. It wasn't our team mark at that point. It was just that whole was really

fucking deep. Yeah, and nail like she she took her hand gloves off, like oh wow, well yeah, that was a really deep hole that the dirt wasn't like there were like rocks, there were like it wasn't it wasn't good. Yeah. Yeah. And then the ground had the ground had so many holes in it. Yeah, that ground everybody wanted to sprint on it. I was like, this was uneven trotted. I trotted across that. Well, that was trop terrain. You couldn't

sprint on that. Yeah, you're gonna like that is like I remember Nelson he booked it and he was running. He always does, You're gonna fall, somebody find There's so many places to trip and fall. I was like, that is the dumbest strategy. But I mean he didn't fall, thank God. Another question for you too, since you were there, did you ever at any point you have a since of any tension between Nannie and Bananas or where you watched, did any of you get to witness sort of the

fall apart that was happening. Yeah, Anissa, what did you I was right next to them, and he was like pairs, and I'm like, is he purposely trying to think not win this? And it seemed it seemed like he was not ready to. And I think amongst the Vets, or at least some VET pairs, it was better to just be in the middle, yeah, not go in the draw and not win. So if Tori and Devin won, we knew that we were all safe. But I don't think

Johnny wanted to win that one. And it was frustrating because Nannie goes into things and I don't think people give her enough credit, but that girl busts her ass when when it comes to jumping off something, eating something, swimming, Nannie will do every single thing to get yeah. And I think that in that moment, she felt like bananas robbed her of that chance of like winning a chat daily and or like being able to perform the best that they could, because even though people are on your side,

you still want to win that gratification. To do it that way and to not tell her, I don't know I got where he was coming from, Like if he would have like told her, you know, on the way to challenge and maybe it's better if we don't win today or like, I don't know, but the risk is my question, because did the bets come away after this week now going maybe that shouldn't be our strategy because look what happened, right, Like we saw nothing but Bet

teams down there and essentially having to eat each other alive. Like the Bets got a root awakening this week because taking for granted how safe they were, put Nannie in a terrible position and being up against friend, being up against you know, her significant other, and who knows if they had won that that wouldn't have been the case. You know, who knows who would have been down there,

but that would have been the case. So do you feel, like Anissa coming back after that week, did anything change or did nothing change? Nothing change? I think we all wanted to win, Like I think, especially after this episode. I think this drills it in where it's like, oh yeah, oh,

they're gonna keep doing this shit to us. So I don't care what it is, but you want to win and protect the people that you care about, right, And this game, the format of this game has made it essential because it's it's they've combined very smartly, so two elements of some of the more famous seasons of the challenge, which is the draw and deliberation, like group deliberations right where you have to put in you know, kind of a bunch of people and consider that, and so it

just makes it doubly hard, which means it is really it's almost never possible. I'd say, to skate by and not touch you would not really have to be like the key inside of both alliances, like because it was like the house was split in half, So who's the half in half? Tell me? Can you guys give me the names of who just so we're clear where we are now? And the journal from the house because I had all of this written, where's your journal? Jack? Where

you look for the journal? While I while I run off some names, Um, I guess Devin, Devin and Tory, Jordan and myself, Johnny and Nanny, Casey, Kenny, Laurel and Jack. And then there was like a Rassio and Olivia, Mariah and Fessie. But the problems were happening because it's like FESSI was with Colleen and then that's like bringing in a rookie to like in your emotions gacky. Then you got Johnny and you know, bananas and Mariah. So what happens there? Right? You know? All right, here's the less

I had written there, y'all. He's got some notes a full but I definitely wrote a lot. I mean, I am a professional. I'm a published author, so I get it published author. So yeah, pretty much what Anissa had said. Those who were kind of like where the house was divided and burn Michelle and Jay Nelson, Theresa, Olivia and Rossi, Fi Maria on one side, Kenny and Casey, Nannia, Bananas, Jordian, Anissa,

Durrell and Veronica maybe then were in Devon. I then wrote the people that had our backs And this is kind of where it was interesting because it's on both because we weren't really part of an alliance. We didn't really ever say like this is where we stand. So I knew the people that had our back to Jordan Any Sir on Hare Nania and Bananas, Olivia and Rossi and Bur and Chauncy. So that's kind of maybe bur An issue was because we weren't fully with one side.

It was like connected with one but that's how we played. We didn't have like a predetermined alliance. We just made connections with people and those connections were good, but I guess not good enough. I think that we should have journals with Jack. Yeah, journaling with Jack like occasionally. Yeah, is there anything you would change about this season in hindsight? Jack, Um, I guess the only thing that I wish I would change is not trusting jam Michelle, not trusting them to

have our back. Not trust and kind of you know, I don't really regret anything. I like the way that Laurel and I played. Yeah, I didn't work, but we stay true to who we were, so like I left with integrity and like, so there's not much had to change because yeah, we lost, but in the long run, we've won more because like going forward in future seasons, and you know, the way people are gonna want to move around us is different than the way they're gonna

want to move around that. Absolutely, we lost, we lost the sprint, but we won the marathon, Amen, Pastor, We're set up to go, like you know further, Yes, I love that so much and hearing you be so motivational makes it all the more funny. The fact that you had one of the best lines of the season about rats and pieces of garbage right ahead, does how I talk I'm from New Jersey. I you know, I come from a very old school Catholic family. That's how we talk.

It's so funny. My mom took because, like Twitter was blowing up the other day about how Laurel and I like yell at each other and all like the fucking like rat this that, and like we were like, wow, she really just yells at him and he's just yelling. You know, there's something wrong with them. Yeah, And my mom texted me last night she said, wait, this is funny. You handle yourself with such dignity. I love how you and Law communicate in such a loving way towards that

is hysterical. Oh my god, that's so funny. Post thing like that is a loving way to talk to each other. It's like I'll tell you to go fuck yourself while giving you the shirt off my back. Like that's just how we speak. I think you get that. Anissa, Yes, are you hitting poppers? No? No, it's peppermine oil. Because I am a little bit hung over from the Challenge media watch party last night. I was trying not Lissa, just like, taking a whiff of poppers during the podcast

are so crazy. I would never I've kind of sniffed one once and then he listens your hole and then makes you really like hot and back to the holes again. Here we should have dropped poppers. We should have dropped poppers into that stupid hole so we could have found our bottom that hole. We would have dug real fast if I knew, like there was a prize down. Now we know what Jack would have done differently. And hot guy, that hot guy from a Big Brother Argentina, Oh, I

haven't seen he was. Of all the guys I had a crush on in the house, then I had a crush on like two. I The only guy I really like was like wow, like he's attractive and like there's something about him. Was actually Devin. Really I get it, Like really Devin is like he's a man, Like there's there is an appeal. I mean I had a crush on Devin at one point. Yeah, personality, like he's just he's got like this asshole kind of personality. Oh yeah,

that part about him so funny. So yeah, I thought of all the guys and House Devin and then Durrell because Darrell's just so cool and hilarious. Yeah, like these are both energy based attraction, not even just aesthetic. I love that. I wouldn't have guessed either one. Actually, yeah, I wouldn't have. I wouldn't have guessed either one. And and I'm kidding with Devin, because Devin does. He's grown me, he did. I love Devin and Tory's friendship. Can I

just say like, I love yeah so much? I really do. It's just it's fun to see like real friendships because I know it outside and it's real, so it's fun to see it in a competitive sense. I love that. Jack. Okay, so now you're no longer on this season, but I'm sure we will see you back again. I am sure. And the notebook, which now we're just gonna have to ask you about every season. But who are you rooting for?

If you have to pick one team? No spoilers, of course, but just who when you're leaving that house at that moment, who, then are you passing the baton on too? Who do you want to win the season? I am putting my full faith in Olivia and Rossio to take the way, and I felt like I just got along with them in a really great way. I thought there were incredible people. I think they're both incredible people, very stand up people, and I hope they can pull it off, and I

hope they can win a final. I love it all right, so rooting for it, Harassio and Olivia. Now before we let you go, sir Jack, we have a little game that we like to play, and this season we're playing a game. Don't be scared. You've already gone through the scary part. It's only three. This part is three questions. Yes, like a Nissa said about your partner, because you guy are supposed to be Ride or Die, so we want to know if you can really write it. Anissa, do

you want to ask question number one? Sure? Jack, your partner, Laurel is a Challenge legends. How many Challenge seasons has she done? Oh? So close? So close? That's close. Okay, well then you've still got it. Good job, good job, all right? Question number two, Oh, Jack, you and Laurel bond over having no filter? I was about to say, no filler. If that doesn't tell you I have an upcoming botox appointment, I don't know it, does I have one? On the fifteen two? Anissa, Oh my gosh, we're like

the same um. But you and Laurel bond over having no filter? What is the wildest thing your partner has ever said in front of you. Oh, don't go telling lies, because we will call Laurel to confirm. Um, somebody we were out one night and somebody stole twenty dollars from her out of her hand. I believe something had happened. We were at a club or I don't know, and she she verbally assaulted them like I've never seen. It was pretty enery, Laurel. I'm not going to repeat it.

Yeah at a moment, and then don't come in her twenty dollars, don't Yeah, she she did. She was right in it. She tried to get the money back and she like kind of reached and lunged at the girl, Laurel and afraid of shit, No, no, this girl, this girl had took the money from her. And Laurel was like, absolutely not a dollar twenty dollars. I agree, cantal from people and expect not to get right. No, yeah, like

an idiot, and then not be checked. People feel like they're uncheckable and everybody knows that they're not the case. The rule of law about fuck around and find out like that is becoming. I loved that. That is like a man now it really Yeah, it's like almost like Laurels from the Tri state area, like our t well, her family there are moments of that. So like her family is like Jersey and New York and like so

it's in talk that way. I met her parents, like they're super you know, East Coast and old school and like super cool people. So that's definitely where she gets it. Well, jolly Jack, we have a last question here, all right, Laurels a veterinarian and Jack. Last week you called j a fucking rat, fucking piece of garbage. What is your partner's favorite animal? Her horse? Her horse? Well, you're saying the answer me or potential answers. Yeah, she's a big animal.

G Oh, that's the answers. Okay, let me just do this right, Okay, Laurels at okay, Jesus. And she sends me pictures of chickens and birds like all day long, and different animals. She really melts over an animal. She really I've never it's like Laurel turns into a like I I know that I'm annoying when I see a dog and I freak out and a pettit and I love it. Where a cat I held a baby last night, I freaked out over that my ovaries were going nuts.

But Laurel, No, I mean like, holding baby is not your ovaries, Like I just it makes you oh and then like oh no, I fucking loved it. I loved every moment of it. No, but Laurel turns into even like a sappier version of sappy. She like melts, She becomes a puddle herself. Can you imagine Laurel being the bet, Like if Laurel lived here, I would totally want her

to be Brooklyn, my dog's bet, Like she gets it done. Yeah, and she'd be straight up about like listen, I hate to break it to you, but uh, we're gonna have to take the dog's leg Like there's no there's no like sugarcoating ship. Yeah, she'd be honest with you. She'd help people. Yeah, but she empathetic to animals. Yeah, you need a medical field and yeah, completely. And I love that we have a doctor on the Challenge. And I'm not talking about those medics that follow us around when

we're competing on the show. I'm talking about the fact that we have a doctor competing on the Challenge. I love that. Yeah, I do have one question for you, because you did go against us as you as your set, this is your second elimination. Do you think it's it's easier, worse, better, whatever, to go against people you respect and hear about, or to go against people you have zero feelings for. It's

definitely it's definitely zero feelings for. I'd rather go it against somebody who I don't like, you know, because when you do it, does it message with their head a little bit. I wasn't expecting it too, but it does. And I guess that's something that comes with experience to get like a little bit eased out of that. You know, this is my second elimination. Most people have like it doesn't get it. It It doesn't get easier at all. Actually

gets harder because these bonds. But there is there is that I'm very competitive, so like it's kill or be killed. So as much as like I'm blocking stuff, I'm looking at Laurel, I know she's frustrated, and then I'm looking at Jack. I know he's like. It was hard for me to do that because I cared about them, But I would have rather lost to two people I respect that they're going to go back in the game and give him. Hell yeah, there was a bright side to

it for me. Yeah, I'm win or lose, Yeah, because I think whoever would have won that would have gone back in and done with any of it to do. I agree, Oh yeah, Michelle and j I toast in my mind. I mean, I don't know, I don't know what happened the rest of this season, but they might as well just start planning for next season or coming back or whatever, because this ain't there's you know, there's no way. They pissed almost everybody off in the house

except for Catering. We've said it. I don't see how they come back from this. They need to talk to Tory because she's a horrible politician, but it's taken her good six seven seasons to get it together. You got to own up. If you're not great at politics, then you find out what you're good at and you work on it. Yeah, and you master it. Aree and standing

your truth. You got to just own stuff. Even if you make a mistake, people will always you can always bargain with the fact that, hey, you can trust my word. You can always use that as an asset later when you're trying to make deals or by because people will be like, Okay, who I can trust that, versus making promises, breaking them and then later trying to convince people, Yeah, don't make them, you can't break them. Yeah, I live by it. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Jack. It has been

such a pleasure having you here. We missed your other half, Laurel. We love you, Laurel. Hope you are safe in the hurricane girl m but we've enjoyed having you on so much. Thank you for sharing your burn book with us. Thank you for being open about your process. Yeah, your truth, your your commentary on the game. You're hilarious, beautiful to watch, great to listen to as well you are. You are a gorgeous man. Oh yeah, we got to see you in your speedo living in your truth and you guys

great on TV. But right now as we're recording this and we're watching on videos, look, I am beautiful, you guys, like, seriously, I'd argue even better. And you know, Zoom does know in any favors, So less better than I did on the TV show because I was a little fat. Me and Laurel, we're definitely heavier than we normally are on that. Okay, you definitely weren't fat on the show. Let me just clarify that, Yeah, I was a little chubby. I had too much cheek filler, which I don't ever want to

get again. Yeah, I love your fear face is absolutely beautiful. I actually did a deep dive into your Instagram and I went all the way back. That doesn't sound weird, all the way back, yo, fucking gorgeous. I was like, no more cheek filler, damn it. Okay, it was like addicted. I was going to strip mall in Glendown. This lady

was just pumping bigger Oh my gosh. First rule of filler, don't get it at a strip mall, and Glenda the first rule of piller, don't get out of your But for those who want to stalk you, like Anissa did, where can they find you? I call it? I called research quote a research. Yeah, you can follow me on Instagram, Jacob Hart K K O F H E R T S S and Twitter is the same thing, and TikTok's the same thing. Here we go. I love it. We've

loved having you here so much. Thank you for making the time and thank sharing with us and for being such a good friend to our girl. Laurel Um, we appreciate all of that so much of cooer job, I love you, love you guys. Well, that was definitely informative. I want to thank Jack for his time and his journal reading. I love him absolutely great, so good. I mean, we got some real tea, Anissa, we really did, really but for more tea? Where can they follow you? For

all the tea? You can follow me on Instagram that's Devin Simone, Devin with the why Simone with an eye. You can also follow me on Twitter for now Devin with a hy Simone with an eye. You can follow me on TikTok, but nothing's good there. That's Devin Underscore Simone. Something good. We'll be there soon, but just not now. Um. And you can also go to my new website, Devin Simone dot com, which is just relaunched. So excited, Nini. Where can they find you out in the streets? Um?

You can find me on Instagram, Anissa MTV. I'm on Twitter, but I'm really not on Twitter. I'm there. You can DM me, but probably won't respond. I mean, yeah you could, well, I may respond, but I don't like to be there because Twitter is negative for the most part. No offense to you Twitter, but it's not it's not really my thing. I like to keep it positive and like I love we do have some people that love us on Twitter. I will say that they tweet us about the podcast.

So shout out to the people that supports this podcast, support our poor thank you, we love you. But okay, that's where they can find you. Speaking of supporting us. By the way, if you like this episode, if you feel like this is home, please you guys, rate and review us on Spotify. Rate and reviews the Apple Podcast. We read the reviews. We appreciate them. Get your friends to rate and review. Let us know what you like, segments or questions that you have all of that stuff.

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The Challenge. Rider dies Wednesdays at eight pm on MTV, and we'll see you back here next week for more tea. After a brand new episode of The Challenge Rider dies, you'll get a brand new episode of MTV's official Challenge podcast,