Brave New World w/ Ben Driebergen

you just looking yawn? They would have never known that if you hadn't said you. This lady put two hands up to yawn like it was a wall, and I couldn't see her. I'm so mad. No one can see us, but what they can see is this week's episode. Let's talk about it. Yes. Oh, first of all, shout out to this entire season, because so far this has been such a great season, saying cliffhangers and all, it's been

really really good. This particular episode came in Hot Hot Were you expecting Ben and Casey to be the ones thrown into elimination? No? I had no idea that through me for a loop because it was Durrell and Kiki doing right, and because of that, I feel like they were just a mouthpiece for a bigger situation that was

going on. Yeah, and it's so crazy, Sam, It's so crazy because I've been over here fighting the air and calling it Durrell because I would be wanting him to make some big moves, but he's so busy, like, oh, I don't want to do anything because I don't want to shake the tables. And you literally just shook a table. You did, You picked up the table and you shook it. Oh my goodness, like not even realizing it, just shook

a table. Because now it's did he think that because they thought that they were when when Casey and Ben are like self proclaimed, we are at the bottom of these alliances? Yeah, you know, did Darrell then think? You know what? I just tossed him and it's not a big deal. Unbeknownst to him and me because I found out Casey been working. I didn't know that Casey. I had no clue. Listen, Casey been doing some things this season, no clue, Like I'm loving watching her play this season.

I want to assass him because Casey doesn't bullshit, but she's also she's not stupid. She may be nice, but she's not stupid, and all of that is being shown this season, and I'm super, super super excited for her. We are both signed up for this season. We should have went no, I mean just to watch it. Oh, because I'm flying. I'm flying right here. Except for this elimination. I think I would have been okay, this elimination. We

would have did it. It was easy, mad me versu you or I would have held that for you and you would have just mapped it out. Yeah. I could have did the Mad. I couldn't have held it. I couldn't have held the way you could have held the way I could have held that. But Cake eight times for I looked at those equations to me out. I was really surprised that West didn't get that. I was

very surprised West didn't get that. People get real like adrenaline of nerves really just get the best to you sometimes, where you just eight times four is every anything but thirty two. That just gets us to our segments of king or queen of the world and on another planet. So as always I always toss it to you, who is your king or queen of the world this episode, and who was on another planet. I have to give

the queen to Emily. I just I know that if I am ever in a situation in the ocean and I can't make it back, Emily may day come in and get me. I feel like she is a lifeguard I've always wanted. I've never seen a woman swim that fast one of the life jacket. Even if she didn't have a life jacket, she beat the fast any of the fast people there, she went into that life jacket one she could have warned eighteen. I know she said, I'm gonna keep going back for yes, and I'm I'm

gonna get him. Where was your ad West? Where? I mean, yes, where was you ad listen? Compared to her, anyone would have looked like a snail. She was so fast, So shout out to all of your training, because that's not something that's just like you just wake up and you're fast. Because I would have wrapped my little arms around her, and she would have been She would have carried me home because I could you imagine, and I would have had no shame. But we're gonna wind. I would have

had no shame. We won't get last. I'll ride you and very little bitch the whole time. I don't care I look at a rag doll, but you know we won't be last, right, So who was on another planet for you this episode? I mean no offense to Grant, but I well, it just kind of was like everyone else hit the target, but you and Grants athletics. So this is no shade to him. Mean, it's a toss up between Grant and Ben and West not getting this eight times four. I'm really more mad at the eight

times four. But Grant also physically made himself look like he was on another planet when he didn't make it like he was gone. It's so crazy that you say that because my king of the world is Grant, and I well, he did keep going. It's just something that

really is like the marking of a good challenge. Yes, he gave it very much, and you know me, I am a sucker for the little engine they could, and he gave very much that Like he messed that knee leg whatever it was, he messed him myself usne and kept trucking right, and I just felt like physically he wasn't there, so it was like he's on another planet. But it really is the math that really got me this episode, So for me, it's more of the math, and now I feel bad. Yeah, it definitely was the math.

It was the math because I didn't understand. I know, we both sat here watching and I was doing it in my head and I was like, why is this not happening for anyone else? Like what the fuck? What is going on? And my thing is I give people a lot of grace when you have to, like I don't know, drink something and induce a math, or run thirty miles and induce some math. Y'all just had to do some math. So y'all to walk a few steps

in the sand and then math. This should have been an easy situation, like there was no I mean it's always pressure going into elimination, but there was no pressure to do this right now. There was pressure for the girls because well for Zara, there was pressure. Casey was holding it damn right right. Bizarre started why Ben didn't hold it because of his shoulder. Everything, Yeah, should one hundred percent because of his shoulder. He just had a

surgery four months ago. He said, So we'll hear about it because we have the Chaos creator himself here today and Ben is going to tell us all about why he is the house's favorite challenger, yes, and what is what is pushing him, what it's like to win his first elimination, what it's like to be paired up with Casey, and what's it like to be kind of the odd man out and to to start, you know, piloting your own course. I'm so happy that he came to hang

out with us, mister shaken table table again. Okay, so you won't be able to see the cowboy hat, but stay tuned. Our interview with Ben is coming up. Nack. This is the part of the podcast where we get to interview someone who's actually been creating a little well messie drama in the house and I'm not mad at it. The man in the hat. Please welcome Ben podcast. Thank you. Let's do it. Is it is it. It's messy, it's messy. It's good man, it's Ben. It's necessarily exactly we needed it.

It's necessary. It's see, it's necessarily messy. See. Um, yes, Ben, I'm happy about what's going on. And I want to know. So you did challenge USA? Yeah? Yeah, did challenge usay with Justine, Danny and Sarah there, Okay, did you and Sarah have this like riff, then yes, why does she not like you? And do you not like her just as much? M I think? Um, I think the fallen out came on Challenge USA, and um we I realize that we weren't as good as friends as some might

have thought. After VIR season forty and you know Danny and Justine in that train with Tyson, Like, granted, I probably do things to alienate myself, but you know, coming into Worlds, I didn't feels comfortable with Danny and Sarah. I felt really good with just team, but not so much with Danny and Sarah. And then the build up two Worlds, there was always like this distrust from that group, you know, with just communication and like it was just

always felt like the outsiders. So going into Worlds, I felt that we were going to be Team USA strong, knowing that there was this riff that we were all trying to patch up coming into Worlds. But you know, you have to keep an eye on on the Survivors. So did you and Sarah play a similar game on

Survivor or was it completely different? Um? No? I mean for my season that I won, I got to a certain point and then everybody thought that I was a biggest threat and tried taking me out, and so I was basically on my own from that one, and I had to get idols and get to the end and make fired. You know, I ended up winning with four already. I just really wanted to make an alliance, and so

Tony and Sarah, like I stuck with him. I was the yes man with him, right, we were too copped in a marine and Jeremy was in there for wild Firefighter, and it was just like, yeah, let's all three you get to the end. I love Jeremy. Jeremy's incredible, and you know, that's kind of what's my game went on for that, and then coming into Challenge You to say, I hadn't really seen the Challenge, watched a couple of Challenges, and I knew it was a little different than Survivor

and you could play a certain way it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love them both, by the way. Yeah, and so I think that like the game plays from Survivor and the Challenge are like separate, And so I tried changing it during Challenge You to say maybe a little bit and not reliance so much on Sarah, which I didn't do on forty, but I wanted to keep the alliance where Yeah, Challenge, it's good to have alliances, don't get me wrong, but you don't have to have that number one.

And if you go into elimination, you can end up saving yourself. But I didn't want Sarah and I to be a package and challenge you to say and I think that rubbed her the wrong way and it created just this rift between us, two good competitors, two winners, and uh now now it's playing out on the Challenge,

so it's interesting. It's yeah, we're gamers and it is what it is, and no hard feelings towards Danny either or Sarah um or just E and you know we uh we all compete and they have their opinions and I have my opinions. And I think it kind of showed on this episode what everybody thought of each other coming into the worlds. Yeah, and we tried patching that and keeping that under you know, team USA strong. And once those cracks start feeling, you know, you get one

freezing night and those cracks get bigger. So it's getting chili And now I don't want to fly past that. Like you didn't just say what you had just said, right, you made a statement that you weren't as closed or didn't trust or Danny anymore as you previously, but you still had a locked in with Jesse. What caused the detachment from what happened Sarah and Danny basically on Challenge us say it had to come down with Challenge us say, and Danny on Challenge you to say, I really thought

we were good going into Worlds. Danny played a great game on Challenge you say, I thought we were golden. There was no riffs, We would talk to each other, you know, like what I assumed was men and be honest with each other. And and then you come into this one and he starts playing more of that KG so forever. I mean, I could just get that feeling from both Sarah and Danny where Danny's like mood completely changed and it's playing out now like he's playing a

different game than he played on Challenge. You was say, great game, that's his that's his prerogative, being partner with Tory and wanting to vote Jordan. I don't know if that's like you beat that drum and eventually you're going to become a target. And I think that was My biggest problem being attached with Danny and Sarah was a drums that they were beaten. I didn't want to get in rhythm with them, you know what I mean? Um, Danny College, the way you said that, I may have

to use it. You ever see me say that on TV? Just know that I might not give you credit, but I'll give you credit now. Yeah, just give me a little week. Just give me a little week. No, you know, And that's that's kind of you got to be fluent and flow with this game and your alliances. And honestly, if you're not feeling people and your your your alliances are like doing things like maybe feel make you feel uncomfortable or you know, I'm sure I was doing things

that made them feel uncomfortable. But um, you know, I'm just not a yes man. I'm not going to sit there and do what I know. We saw that, right, I hate yes man, Like put up a bit of a fight, like nobody likes it easy, Like don't take it lying down. Like I'm very big on standing up for what you believe in and going against the grain sometimes.

I mean, there's a strategic there's some strategy two going along with the group, even though you don't think the same as them, and then making necessary moves when you have to. But I don't know what's going to happen yet, so I can't assume that that's going to happen. All I know is that, I mean, it might be a

weird transition. But I don't know about you, Ben, But do you think Durrell and Kiki throwing you in casey in was something that other people had maybe talked to them about in a way like, yo, you probably should

do that. Yeah, definitely, that's what happened. Um. You know with the Australians, they were pretty good and of keeping their legends out of the loop, right, Yes, is awesome, but I think Emily kept him the darkness a lot of things, yes, yeah, yeah, and the same thing with um, you know, Kiki and Durrell having Sarah and Danny come to you and we were Australia USA stronger to start, so there was a base there, right, there was an absolute base. Um. The Australians were definitely weary of Troy

and Kiki at the beginning of the season. I mean, Emily throws Kiki's name out and it's like the okay, we can put Keki in their two eliminations she goes in and the other thing against Claudia, and so there was a riff there all the whole time. But we were like, okay, the two strongest things, we get together. But then you start looking around and you see Troy and Amber on the bottom of Australia and Casey and

I on the bottom of USA. And USA's not something I want to be a part of right now, you know, and everyone's you know, say what you want. Jordan. I really like Jordan out there. Um Me and him connected on. But you know, he when he went volunteery to go to Ukraine and help out at the very beginning of all that stuff, that was something I admired from being in the Marine Corps and going and represent your flag and just being in that kind of zone not a lot of people get to experience. And so I really

like Jordan. Um. I wasn't scared to compete against Jordan in the final either, right, I'm not scared of Danny, I'm not scared of feel I don't Johnny West, none of them. You know, all these guys are all legends out there, and I'm out here to compete with the best and if I win, I'm gonna be the best. And if I lose, yeah, I'm gonna lose to the best. Right And so yeah, and everyone, first off, everyone out there is phenomenal. Right, Yeah, if you look at the teams,

everyone's stacked. There's no worse worst part, like nobody's bad. No, no, it was impressive, honestly, all the legends were so impressive. And the same with the MVPs. And um lost my point there, but yeah, I want to when you say you're not a yes man, I completely agree. And we watched that play out in the previous episode, and I want to run back to that real quick. What made you shake the tables in such a way because it was a full blown earthquake, okay, And I just want

to know what brought that about. It was a great television, but what brought it about strategically? So, um, yeah, so where did this go wrong? Danny came to me, right, yeah, right or wrong? Right? Right? On what side you're on? Danny came to me after a certain thing and it came out of nowhere and he was like, dude, are we are we out? Like we're not on the same page anymore? Right, And I'm like, what are you talking about.

I'm like, no, I think we're good. Like we can have discussions and disagreements, but like, I'm pretty sure we're still on the same page. And so that was one of the key things. And then honestly, the way Sarah conducted herself in the house and like either spoke or didn't speak to me was concerning too. It was very distant, right,

like people in your lines people. And and so I saw us as an option to go in through USA because of that, and I wanted to have you know, I just didn't want to sit there and be like, Okay, Australia USA, we'll get as far as we can. But there's two people at the bottom, which is clear and Troy and Amber and Casey and I that we're going

to be thrown in. And so instead of voting out all these other numbers that everyone else wants to vote out, why not break off from that group, right, and then go pick up all these numbers before those numbers don't mean nothing and you have no more votes, right, you don't want to do anything too early. You don't want to do anything too late. And honestly, the flow of the game, like dictates how I maneuver my alliances and honestly,

the people that are in those alliances. I like to align myself with good people, trustworthy people, and people that are going to give you the same respect back that you're given, right, Yeah, and so that's something I look forward in alliance and when that stuff starts falling out, like this is a game show, okay, Yeah, we are there to win money, and so that's what I do. I try to win money. So what is your with that criteria, right of what you look for in other allies?

Which teams were your like perfect ally to have Casey, I mean that's the way. Yeah, you know, we um definitely vibe together. It was amazing. We would talk in the mornings and just have real quick talks, not be seen talking too much, and like we wanted to just go with the flow, right and just get to the end. That was our goal, get to the end, you know,

not create too many ways. Oh. One of the other things that happened, say it one day, I was laid in bed all day okay and didn't get out of bed and was like it was the date of the elimination when West loss, and so we did dominations the night before went out, had a weird feeling, woke up like and just didn't want to get out of bed,

and so stayed around the house. And then later on, right before the elimination, Casey came to me and she's like, hey, you should probably slow your role, like you're gaming a lot, like you know, you saw like you don't want to be doing what West is doing basically, And she didn't say that, but she other people said that I was doing that, and I'm like, where is this. I've been in bed all day today, like I haven't talked to

anyone a day. What's going on? And so when we went to the elimination, I had such a funny feeling that I packed my bags before we went to the elimination, even in my civilian clothes, because that's how much of the vibe like everyone was given off and so that's why I packed my back. Are you normally like that though? Are you look a big energy like it shit feels off to you unpacking a shit like I'm getting ready?

Yeah I gotta go, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've like yeah, there's been multiple times you know where, and it's really interesting on these shows. Can you just get these feelings and you wonder where they come from, you know. And I think it's being that close to that many people for that many hours that you just really start picking up energy. And I think that's the true thing, like positive energy, negative energy, and you know, little liars running

around the house, you know. And there's also that paranoia that like people you try like to play the most level head of game you can, but you can't help think like there's somebody that had said something, there's somebody who's plotting about something. Yeah, but the way I the way I curbed a paranoia is like what have you seen? What have you heard? And what are the sources that you've either like heard them from, you know what I mean?

And so yeah, I get that. I'm just saying like when you get to like six weeks, ten weeks, you know what I mean, like like being kind of like you know how the rooms are set up. It's just like people stop whispering or the whispering like you don't know what's going on. And I think it can happen.

After a couple of weeks it starts to kick in of like not even paranoia, you know, somebody's talking about you somewhere yeah, there's these rooms were so close together and the hallways, like the mansion was beautiful, but like their voices would carry down the hallways and so like I heard Emily talking with Yes about throwing me in case yet because yes, you had no idea about like that plant, right, And so Emily's down in the in the quarter there and their voice or just echoing, and

she's like it worked perfect, you know, Danny and Sarah and I wanted to get Ben in and like and just spilled the beans. Yes, and like finally brought Yes up to what was going on because the corner, Yes, like he was good with Amber and Troy and like there was nothing and uh yeah, and so I heard that all and I was just like you snap, like I knew it, you know what I mean, Like I'm wrong sometimes sometimes four that's when you're wrong. You're wrong,

That's where I'm wrong. Yeah, I can't do that, but I get I guess I could read people pretty well though, and which is a skill. And also you know I think that watching you, Like, I mean, I've played this game more times than I than i'd like to admit or remember. Um, and it's stressful. But like I don't know. It takes like a certain person to like really stand up for themselves in these situations, especially when like they feel like they're being wronged or like pointed out. I

don't know, I just I mean, I respect it. And it's fun to watch, like not fun, but I mean it's fun because I'm not there. Oh it's fun. It's really fun to watch because because I've been on it and Dave's been on it, and we know that like what it's like to kind of watch all of our friends protect our friends and you know, a long list of that which I get and I've been a part of.

But I've also been on the side that you're on where it's like I want to you know, rock with who I rock with and run the final with who I respect and and you know, don't mind winning or losing to and you know, sometimes it works to your

benefit and sometimes it doesn't. But it makes for great television to see somebody really stick to their guns and be like, nah, I don't want to do that exactly, but you know, our time score is whatever I think it is, Yeah, exactly, apple Pie, But um, nobody having Casey though I benefited by having a partner in Casey right where you look at the rift between touring Danny um, so being able to yeah, yeah, so being able to maneuver through the house with a partner I could trust

and talk to and like rely on on a vote, right, you say you see it in this one, THEO says that like they're just it's a wasted vote. What's the point of like being aligned with you if you're not even like gonna your vote doesn't count. Your vote doesn't matter if you two can't decide, right. And then just the riff between Danny and Torry, I mean everyone you know in the room you could see it, and then it was just it was uncomfortable. It was really uncomble.

But again that's the point of the challenges, to make you uncomfortable and kind of beat you down and then you know, bring you back up. So okay, so wait, before we go any further, hold on to you being cowboy hats. We need to take a quick break and we'll be right back after this. I want to get into this elimination, okay, because Durrell and keep well Durrell. Durrell said, as you and Casey immediately, what goes through your mind? So you see like on the show, like

my head's down, I got my hat. I'm just ready. It's game time, right, I'm getting ready to go play football. I'm getting ready getting the shooting ride, a bowl, whatever it might be, you know what I mean. Like, I'm I got my game face on Casey and I m once our name's got nominated. She looked at me and she's like, hey, let's go do this. She's like, huh no celebrating, No, nothing was going there to take care of her business. And you know, get in and get out.

And that's what we did. We went in there. You see us after we win. There was no fist bumps. No, you know what I mean between her and I. There was no clapping or flipping off the rest of the people in there, because we wanted everyone to know, look like you took a shot. We knew it was coming, but don't do it again. Yeah, you know I like that. I'd like how after the elimination, you guys did good cop, good cop, not good cop bad cop. You did good coup,

good cop. No chicken legs through that. This conversation you guys have with Durrell and Kiki after the elimination, Yeah, you know, we just didn't want them because again, Kiki's on the bottom of the Australians from what I've seen, right, Like, yeah, they're Australian strong, which is fine, but there's Emily and Grant and then there's Kiki and Troy and that was kind of like straight from the horse's mouth of Grant and Emily and so m I didn't want to push

Kiki away or Durell away. We knew it. I knew it was a situation. It was a shitty situation for them, and there was little birdies in their ears, on their shoulders, chirping, chirping pretty loud, and so I didn't I didn't want to push away, you know, Kiki Durell. I just want to be like, hey, man, I understand it, I respect it, you know, ken, I know, why can I deal and fill it out? And a little later on I think, like that night, Durell ended up just telling me he's like,

you know, um, I didn't know who to say. I really didn't lie, like the fact that, you you know, try putting Troy and plus I had Sarah and Danny said, you know, I was greenlit to go in. Okay, there we go. Yeah, so whoa. Yeah, it's all stems from those feelings from you know, coming into worlds and at the end of a challenge you to say, well, doesn't that feel good though when you get that confirmation, because it lets you know I'm not paranoid, like this is

for real, like this is what's really happening. Yeah, yeah it is because there is paranoia, Like I'm paranoid as well, but I think after being on time right like ye them, but I didn't feel like being on After so many times, you learn how to control which paranoia right, like it is actually real and the other part that's just like a phantom paranoia that just lives inside of me. Yeah, partmentalize. Yeah. Yeah.

So you get the news and Danny puts it out there, like Danny says to Dan, doesn't give a fuck, it doesn't. Danny was like Ben, you can go get bury even the sand with those math equations. You know what's funny is that Danny. Uh you know, I think all of us are liked that though, but when when our confessions and we're by ourselves were a certain way, but Danny was never that way to my face. Danny would was

always respectful, kind, never portrayed any like. I mean we had that one conversation about like are we are we still together? And then she you know, it's you don't He's kind of two faced. I'll just say it, you know what I mean to my Like, after seeing that,

I wish you would have just talked to me. And that's the thing with Danny and I think coming in I was willing to work with with Danny because we hadn't played together we had except on Survivor, right, but we played on Challenge of say that's a different thing, um, So I was really willing to work and talk and discussing through with Danny. On the other hand, Sarah like I know Sarah's game. I know I should play these games. I played these games with her, and I was very

cagy with that. Plus Sarah's in Danny's here, and I think that's kind of what separated, Like, well, if you can do that her, you know, whatever it is, what it is. And I'm a loyal person. I really am. Yeah, Like if you look on season forty, you know when Sarah got caught trying to vote me out and she didn't want to ruin any relationships. So I'm like, look, you can do it. I still love you. It's a game, well, you know what I mean. And and so I'm loyal un telling you you pissed me off, and as you

should be. Yeah, yeah, So, No, I think Danny's a great guy. I had no hard feelings. Um, I think he blocked me or something on Instagram, which I think he probably has some hard feelings again for me. But you know, has Keiki set any text messages to I mean text messages. Has she tweeted about you? No? No, on the show in the game about his wife, Danny's wife, Yeah,

I mean, you know. And what's crazy is I had a survivor thing down there in Houston right before this World's event, and Danny was down there and Kiki was down there, and I'm telling you what, we had a hell of a time. They took me around Houston, took me to bars that I had never even thought i'd ever go to. It was so much I would love, Oh, it was everybody loved to see it though, you know what I mean. In there. It was so much fun though,

and I had a really good time. And so coming into the world, That's what I thought Danny's relationship was really you know, what I mean, And I think it just separated from like day one. I mean, I don't know they they had they were worried about me coming in. Justine talked about it on Banana's podcast, and all that did was it just confirm my feelings about like how they were feeling. So, you know, I have to ask, do you think if Sarah was not on this season?

If she were not on this season, do you think you and Danny's relationship would be different or alliance would be different if she worked for a question. That's I mean, I guess I can only speak to that from my standpoint, and from my standpoint in Houston when it was just him and I and Kiki and you know, hanging out. Um, I think we would have been solid, right, But that's just from me right now. Yeah, I also thought that

even with Sarah being on the show. I don't know what was put in ahead his head but or what you know, I don't know. I'm not sure. I can't speak for Danny. For me, I was one aligned with him, Justine about eighty percent aligned with Sarah only because of Justine and Danny and Tim USA. Yeah, realistically, like, yeah, let's keep this USA strong let's go together. We'll get to the end. And that's honestly what I wanted to do.

That was my game plan going. And you know these games plans are I mean, it's being in the military. Your your plan is only as good as the first shot. And once the first shots taken, everything goes goes to shit. And well a shot was taken and it's gone to shit. So after that shot was taken and it went to shit, West had a lot to say. Yeah, how did you feel about his sweet sweet speech? You know, um, I thought it was pretty cool, honestly, because it's two worlds colliding.

You got MTV, you got CBS, and you got such big characters and winners, and I mean, you guys have been on for multiple you guys are legends, right like the Challenge. The Challenge people are legends. You're not a legend and survivor unless you win, right, And so I don't know because the sorree is definitely to me, she

is alleged, that's true. There's there's a couple outliers where all the challengers not and so with so many big personalities coming in and clide and you can see it, there's no weak links and then just that like it's almost was almost an acceptance from the MTV Challengers. Granted it was coming from the West, but you could see the way the rest of the legends are playing and they're giving respect to us, and I came in and talking like listen, I'm shut my mouth. This is your sandbox.

I'm here to, you know, like build a couple of sand castles and call it good with with all the legends and obviously have my own agenda. I just wasn't as as stubborn about it, you know, some of the others, but you know, it's it's their sand pit. And to beat West was like crazy, especially you know, he's a self proclaimed genius and he is a genius and oh no, not win eight times four. But no, it was just

it was cool. It was cool. It was maybe maybe yeah, but it was neat to all right, he's you girls, he's all right. Um, I don't want to sly past this entire episode and not acknowledge you winning your very first elimination because that is huge, Okay, in the challenged world, that is huge. So how did that feel to get your first win under your belt? Like that's that's a big deal. Yeah, it was. I screwed it through on USA never went into elimination um, and that was kind

of like a tactic of mine too. I just I didn't want to go into elimination, have that year of like I just want to play it kind of safe. And this one I knew I was going to go into elimination. I didn't know when it was going to happen. And to get like my stripes against West and Zara, because Zara is a competitor. She is so fast, so strong, I mean, watching that girl run in the Qualifier episode one and like from there and on, she was so impressive and she's such a sweet all of all of man,

it was incredible. The Argentine and MS and Uk it was. It was so much fun to be around so many people with so many different accents and uh you know, terms for words and slang and it was it was just a good time, like socially, to be around a different group of people like that. It was fun. But no, Zar and West. To get my stripes on was incredible, Like it's a big thing, I think, beating West, so yeah, not many people can say they got stripes off of him,

so that is huge. Yeah, yeah, it's he's he's he's a legend in itself too, So it was it was cool. It was I'm gonna I'm honored, you know, I'm honored. Yeah, UM, want to get into this, this daily the challenge, right, Um, First of all, how far it was the slam because it looks a little brutal. It was brutal. It was brutal. So where we jumped off that um, the big old platform and that drop was forty feet, I mean it

was high. It was like, I don't get scared. I wasn't scared, like watching like looking down at TJ, like you can't be scared, plus all the cameras, but there was like an actress seeing grant you. So I've done those flops before where you and you have to land on your back. You can't land on you but the safest way to do is just trust your fault. But you don't want to over like rotate either. So it's kind of a pury feeling. But we swam once we hit that, I don't know, it was a long way.

We swam all the way to the end of this pit. It was like a rock quarry that was filled in. Definitely probably a football field and a half about one hundred and fifty yards, and then you had to swim one hundred and fifty yards, if not more, there's probably too fo I was probably four hundred yards. It was it was long. It was long. I was gassed my shoulder to swimming like that, Like I got a giant

screw in my shoulder like four months. It's a huge giant screw and rubber bands and everything, and swimming I was like, holy, it's working my shoulders working in saying with the qualifier and it was cool. It was really neat for our viewers. So our listeners sorry who did not watch USA the can you tell them what happened to you and how you ended up getting injured? Yeah, so on challenge A say, during one of the mini finals, I fell with a tire. I had it wrapped around

my neck and then underneath an armpit. And so when I fell, my right arm and shoulder completely separated and I collarbone. It tore all the I hate all of that. The rotator cuff in there as well, and then I had a tear in my meniscus, my left meniscus knee as well, core meniscus and rotator cuff and collarbone on

the same thing. So then I wanted to compete. Like being able not to compete was like heartreaking being there in Patagonia and just knowing especially I love to do agree any because that's well, you know, sound like Uncle Rico, Like I could have won it, you know, I could throw this schooball over that their mountain, but um no, I had came home and I had surgery and a surgery on my knee and shoulder on the same day

in the same like wow, same procedure. They moving around from one room to the other to the other and then back to the recovery room. And then four months later I was flying out to South Africa in Cape Town to go crazy if this thing works. Yeah, that's good. I'm glad that you came back from a lot of people say after shoulder surgery, sh it's not the same. I know after an injury like that, like shoulder injury period like impact, hitting water, swimming, like when you haven't

done it in a while. Definitely, Like there's a neuromuscular aspect that like freaks you out about it, like you get kind of nervous that like, yeah, floming day happen, but you just power were through it and then you deal with it after. But that adrenaline something else too. It is. Yeah, I'm still doing physical therapy with it and us going every week and making sure getting back to one hundred percent. And now I'm feeling really good with it, and the same with money and just just

health in general. That's good. That's good. So what was it like watching m Grant's injury in person? Like did you at that point? Did you everybody or you assume that he was out of the game or was it like fifty fifty toss up? Like how was that? No? Watching? So when he left the platform, like you knew it wasn't going to be good, Like I thought he was gonna hit the blob because when you see him jump, he jumps like to the side kind of deal instead

of just straightforward. When he jumped aside, it just it it moved his like torso and but where you want to hit to the back and just moved it to the left, left, And when he hit that thing, everybody knew it was bad, especially because John Any didn't move but you know, three feet off the air and kind of just rolled up bag like he missed it completely, and to get caught in that little booty there in the wedge there, it was bad, but what a beast

to continue on and swim with that bum knee like that, right, like yeah, he got out and you didn't really know he was here. He was like it's kind of messed up, but to hear what actually happened, like it was really impressive, like there's no quitna that guy. Yeah, how did it feel watching the fish the dolphin herself that Emily compete in this challenge to see an Olympian swim? Do you know what's crazy is I didn't get to actually see

her compete. She was the one person her and yes, one compair that we didn't get to see compete like that. And I was really bummed because anybody swimming, I wanted to watch her swim. And when I got back, I was like did I miss it? Did I miss it? And like, yeah, you shoul seeing her, like I know

she's one. Like to see an Olympians swim like that, you know, and just think like she was in a life vest and everybody was like, holy gosh, she's so she didn't have that life a song she'd be twice as fast thought about that, because that life has sucks. She was out like in a boat. I don't think it looked like she had like a motor underneath her. It was so her feet didn't even look like they were moving. I'm like, are you dolphin kicking under there?

Because I didn't say, I'm like, yes, you'd have just gone our back and been like, I'm on dolphin like a jet ski. Everybody loved jets. But no, I mean yes, when he got out, he was like, damn that, I'm gonna be embarrassed, you know. But he's like, at least it's a golden medal, a gold medal Olympus. Though, I was like, you guys got to think that she's an Olympian. It was one gold medal, man, She's gonna be all the guys here, buddy. Yeah, I want to know this

one thing to move a little bit forward. There was a moment and you had mentioned respect between the legends and the global competitors, and then we see this bananas and Sarah argument. My goodness, how did you feel about that? Watching that? That is your typical Sarah, you know, um, that is when she's hard headed. She's hard knows and

when she's set in her way. She set her way right or wrong, and you know she can You can have a book in front of her and be like, hey, this book is read right and it's a red book, but she's like, no, it's blue and uh, and she's gonna stick to it. So watching that happen, it was not surprising watching Danny. You know, I just never saw that side of Danny on a challenge you to say at all, So um, that was really surprising too. And

I just didn't I don't understand at this point. I get that you might not want to run against Jordan. Jordan's a beast. Jordan is a specimen of athleticism, right, Like the guy's phenomenal running and endurance and whatever else. But like you were partnered with like someone that's not

gonna and she's already told Tori. He's already told Danny that, like Tory's not gonna say Jordan's name, you know, And I just, uh, I didn't want to be like it was just it confused me about where he was going, right, Like he talks about what direction are we headed in? And I think that's like the same thing I was asking, like,

what are you what direction are you headed? Like, I understand your strategy, but how are we going to accomplish that without you pissing Tory off or making like a big fuss at a table in front of every right, you know, So I wish, you know, I wish we could have worked it out, but you know, you never know what was the deal with Danny and THEO what happened there? So Danny, what's crazy? Was this vote too? Is? Um?

So we're now we're moving on to the next where Grant. Okay, So with this one, we were walking down the stairs. We were walking down the stairs and Danny, I think was just kind of After watching the show, I can only presume that maybe he was flustered because things weren't going his way. Grant's lost, right, and so he's in front of me and Casey and I was like I was saying, I was like, man, if we get thrown in over some fucking stupid stalemate, right, I'm gonna be pissed.

And then Danny turned around and he's like, we'll tell your partner to vote the right way. Well I was like, mm okay. So then I let Casey know. I was like, hey, Casey, like Danny just said this, yehnest. So then we go to that and Danny starts chirping off it THEO right, and Theo's like, buddy, what do you do? Like what I mean? I think a lot of us were THEO

in that moment, you know. And he's like, well, I'm old man, And I'm like, well, isn't that what you just told me to do was tell my partner to vote the way otherwise, like we're gonna go in and what power do you have right now in saying that? And so Casey got pissed and she's like it was it was? It was that deliberation was pretty heated. It kept going after that a bit and then wait, so were there are more altercations? Like Casey got into it? Well, Danny and I I kind of got into it um

at the table, and you know, all I share. All I said was like, listen, man, you you know, I understand where you're coming from, but you yelling at everyone at the table is not a good look for like I met that as like Team USA, an Alliance member or anyone like that, Like you're creating ways for no reason right now? No reason? Why'soever? Like? And I just

didn't want to be a part of that. And Sarah and Danny also kept themselves quite a bit, you know what I mean, and weren't very social at the very beginning and just kind of played their sadukus and hung out with Emily and Grant and you know, they made it very clear what their alliance was. So wow. Yeah. Oh if I could have been a fly on the wall at all, right, anything like a bug or a butterfly, I would like day lights switch. Well, actually I can't be a light switch. I want to move around. I'd

be a nat too. I'm on the show. I'd like to to pass still, but I'll come on the show with Nats and then we could just put back and be like, well, actually we know the real scoop because we were there. Yeah. No, it's cool to see back too, because like you know their confessions and they're talking, you know stuff you're not prevy two at the time, and you need to come back and see it. Um, it's interesting, it's really fun. It's it's you know, these shows are

so fun and watching them are even more fun. Yeah. So when did the wheel start turning for you for this Amber plan? When when did that come about. Okay, because let me tell you that's at the City on Fire. So when when did that come about? Yeah, And what's crazy is I even went up to Johnny, like Casey and I went up to Johnny. That move was so fashioned, Like tor came to Casey and I told us at and and we're like, no, no way, both case and like,

we're not voting Amber. Amber is friends with Michelle. I'm friends with Michelle. Um. Michelle said that I could trust Amber going in and when we were picking partners and Ambers like because Chet, we didn't want people to know our relationship and there was no relationship, just a connection of trust between through Michelle, So we hardly talked or anything like that. For clarity, when you mentioned that Michelle for our listeners, when you mentioned that Michelle told you

to trust Amber, you're speaking of Michelle from Survivor. Correct, Yeah, Michelle from Survivor and Michelle Fitzgerald and she's on the challenge. There you go, yeah, there you go. Yeah. But when it came time to it, I came, Tory told Casey and I. Then case and I went to Johnny and we're like, hey, we can switch this, but like we want you let in on it because like, yeah, Johnny's with Justine and those are two that I trust for

not trust, but like team USA. So then Johnny's like, well, if you can get it done, we could do it. So then Casey and I just go right before the vote and tell Amber what's going on, you know, and tell her the truth, and and then she came downstairs fired up, you know. And I think a lot of that had to do with the vibe, but the deliberation before when it was kind of heated and people were or no, I guess that was that one. Yeah, so

that's what it was. Um, Troy and Amber. I tried leaning back from Grant and being like, hey, you guys are on the bottom of the one that we got thrown it. Like I did try to do that because it was gonna be another stalemate or it was a stalemate on that one. Anyways, I was trying to get Troy and Amber to change their votes. They ultimately didn't end up changing their votes, but that seed was planted in their head, which is a natural truth about them

being on the bottom. And so this next one comes around, I think more um, Amber got like aware of what was going on, and so when she came down on that one and she started to vote, she was ready to go. She didn't care, like now I Amber's fired up, Now Casey's fired up, and now I'm fired up, right, And it was it was It was great seeing Amber's fantastic, she's she's a sweetheart and if you cross her like, she's gonna let you know, you know, And so it was cool. It was cool to see people just finally

start standing up for themselves. I don't know what these you know, self reclaim big dogs think that they get to come in and run the house like whenever they want and just do whatever they want and say whatever they want. And we got to fall in line. Well, we're there, we're winners. I'm a winner. There's an other winners in the house. And here's the reason for that. We're here for the bag too. Don't think that we're not. But we're not gonna sit around and we're not on leashes.

Like I'm not a leash person. I know that's right, I'm not a leash. Oh. So in the snake Peak, right, there is a scene with you sitting next to Casey and your head is down. You want to give us a little tease about what that is, about what may have happened because you look like he just got stabbed in the heart. Okay, yeah, and so so I so, I mean, so much has gone on from Casey and I being blindsided which set us on our path now

and then um coming up. I can only tell you that there's gonna be a lot more people beating the drums and a lot more people out of rhythm like it. Oh yeah, um, you know things. It's fun, it's exciting, like next episode from here on out. I mean, like the whole season has been fun to watch and watching it play out as it is and getting all the inside information that you aren't like, I cannot wait to see the next episode, the one after that, the one

after that, you know what I mean. Like, it's it's good. It's good. It's gonna play out and it's gonna be great. It's gonna be a great season. Everybody out there just working butts off, every the crew of the cast. You know. South Africa was beautiful, Cape Town was amazing. Oh boy, isn't it so gorgeous? Yeah, it was amazing. I'd love to hear your excitement about this show. It's so it's so good and refreshing to be a part of a production that you are excited to watch as a viewer,

you know what I mean. Yeah, I mean we're so blessed to get to do this stuff. And so that's why I just love I love the game, I love the challenges. I love honestly everyone that comes into these because everyone is there for a reason, and everyone has worked hard for some point to be on the Challenge or be on Survivor. They've wanted it, they want to be there, and it's fun. We work her asses off.

We you know, miss our families, and now we're on television and getting ridiculed on Reddit and Twitter and whatever else. And because you can't let that noise in, you's got to be special and or not be special, but feel lucky to be where you're at. You know, there's so much more love than hate out there, you know. So yeah, there is absorbab all of that shit. Keep it moving, and we hope, you know, you get your little bag

that's coming. I'm so glad that you said that, because I think we tend to get showered with so much love, but then it's like that one hate will stick out like a sore thumb and it's like, why is that there? And you like focus on it? But yeah, I totally agree. Focus on the love. Yeah, you know, when you walk barefoot, you know or whatnot, you might get through your sand a bunch, but everyone's while. You'll hit a rock, right, just pull it out, throw it away and say fuck it.

Yeah that's that's yeah exactly. I love that, Ben. Where can the people find you on the social immedias? Oh? Just the Instagram? Just the Graham there. Uh, I did the cameo thing they got, they reeled me in. Now they are doing the cameo and what's that you just reminded me? Yeah, check yourself. Cameo is fine, it's fun. So where can the people find you? What's your cameo? What's your Instagram? Oh? Yeah, we did this last time. I had to look last time too. Think it's Ben drebergain, right,

Drebin Ben? Maybe no? Oh we have Ben draggin no space on the Instagram and then the cameo. I think Ben, I cannot It'll be your name. I think that's all it is. Band said, if you want to find me, google me that. Yeah. Man, I just like, hey, I'm I do the competing. I do the puking, uh you know what I mean, like that kind of stuff. I do the breaking. And you're a big puker, by the way, so violent. If I were next to you during a qualifier, I would have stopped and been like, can he be

disqualified for puking on me? Or can I switch places? Oh? My god? And the worst part of that was it's like it got to a point where like he's like, you can't puke anymore out, like you are on the verge of being disqualified right now, and flex of an ant like stomach, the stomach of a of a tiny little bug. No, the smell, how will you ever know the smell of these drinks? When it like so the wind we were standing there and the wind blew class

they were really pungent. Oh it was that they traveled. Yeah, it was horrible. It was absolutely horrible. But then so I get down with that, and I was the first one down, and and I like was so loud, And that was like kind of intentional, like I really I mean, don't get me wrong, I puke very violent, loud like, but I made sure to ramp it up just to make it so much worse for everyone else right, and because everyone's gagging. So I'm never doing this next to you.

If there's food and it's me and you or I will get away. Ye, bring your plugs to every challenge. So after I ran away, I gave him one more like as I was running away, just you know, it was so fun. It's a good strategy though, because some people, if they hear it, it'll make them do it, So it could work in your favorite strategically. I'm also a puker. If I watched someone puke though, you know what I mean, Like,

so it don't work, Yeah, it don't work. Yeah, So if I got to be the first one puking, that's what I'm that. I think that's my goal, is like eating challenge, Like as long as I'm the first one puking, then like that's mine, is all of the puking. I'm so glad you came to hang out fun. It was nice to meet you. It's nice to meet you too. Yeah, your last interview you did with us was great. This one was great. You're just great across the board. Keep I hope that you keep shaking the tables this season.

I'm so excited to watch who knows what's gonna happen, right, Like, I'm okay, that's what we like to hear. Yeah, it's exciting to watch you. You're gonna move this season from MVP to legend, and I want to see it. That's I don't know about that, but well, like I want to see I got it. I gotta get a win first. I gotta get a win. I gotta get a win. I got my elimination win. Let's hope I win this season. So, okay, we were over here watching every week. All right, love

you both, honestly, I love you. Love you it to me, all right, friends, Like that was such a great interview. I'm so excited and glad that being came to hang out with us. He gave perspective. He let us know that it was some realty going on in the deliberation. That made me so happy. I wish we would have got an opportunity to so I'm like, they have cameras in the rooms, show us, show us, because I want to see that. He said, Casey turned up. I never seen Casey turned up. I want to see that time

on Total Madness she turned up. Oh no, a little bit. She cranked. She didn't turn up, she cranked, she was turned, she crank crank a little bit. But we're about to have nicknames for every single person on the show and I can't wait they're coming. Where can the people see you get cranked up? If they won't do on my dull ass Instagram where I don't crank anything? Um Anissa MTV? That's a n E s a MTV. And where gonna

find you? Mayor of Twitterland? You know what. I'm in retirement, so you can just find me as a regular civilian in Twitterville, USA at Ja Dahan Underscore. I think I've been delivered from being the mayor. There's a lot of toxicity that goes with that, so the Lord has brought me a bout of that. And you can find me on Instagram at Davion Diane Underscore, and you can also

find me on this podcast. Then, if you happen to like this podcast, make sure you rate and review us on Spotify or Apple podcast until a friend and after telling that friend at new episodes of The Challenge World Championship Wednesdays on Paramount Plus. Yes, and We'll see you back here next week with a brand new episode of MTV's official Challenge podcast The best podcast s,