A Legend Returns w/ Michele Fitzgerald

Hey, Hey, Hey, it's Devin Simone.

Yes, and I'm Davon Rogers and this is MTV's official Charlie podcast.

We're at Yes, it is a girl.

You should just call this the Godfather episode, right, Girl? They gonna be on you this episode.

It wasn't filled with as much drama, but it was interesting seeing the dynamic shift a little bit. So we had the challenge, we all fall down, and what was interesting about that is they were all divided in teams of four, but we saw Kylin and Mariah Sart to question Michelle the aka Queen be the godfather of the game, and I feel like that's the first time that we've seen it this season. The winners of that challenge end up being ed Hiracio, Zara, and Berna Go Team Go.

And then the house votes in Raven and Raven can't catch a break either.

Dang girls, I'm sorry. Then we have the draw and we get the mercenary Kara Maria. Now, first of all, you know she loves pulling the random cards in when it comes to the draw.

Because when we were on free agents.

That girl always pulled the skull and crossbones, which is the one card you never wanted to pull. But this time it seemed like carl Maria was coming in truely to cause chaos. She had all sorts of things to say, she had a mission. Sure enough, she pulled Chaos, which means she got to pick anyone that didn't win, any girl to come down and compete against.

And who did she pick?

She picked, well, she called her orange shirt, but she picked Michelle, all right, She picked Michelle to come down. Michelle looks terrified and shocked because at this point Michelle has been able to keep her hands clean and have everyone else doing her dirty work this whole time. Now she's got to go in and get messy. It's a pretty heavy matchup because Carl Maria is an icon for a reason. Yeah, but ultimately we did elimination Blockhead, which

Car I was showing out.

She was talking a whole lot of smack. Also, it was there was two pieces. One the producers who had her when she was leaving, I don't know if you saw that, she did this head turn and her side profile car just glistening and gloing as she does like face card doesn't climb. But then when she was first going into the arena, they also had her do this slow head turn. It was giving chucky vibes. I don't know what we're doing on that one. It was crazy. But her exit side turn, she was looking like just

Okay, so my goal star and my timeout are gonna go to the same person, Okay, and that is Kara. I'm gonna give her my goal star because baby girl came in with a mission.

Do you understand me? She came in with a mission, and I love that.

She told Raven and Colleen, oh, y'all down, Okay, cool, y'all take a break.

Go ahead and take a break. I'm gonna let y'all breathe, ma'am, you seem to be the one in charge.

And then she said this was for Polly. She came in here on a mission for her man. Okay, you better fight for your man. She came in here to take down somebody for her man. And so I thought it was really, really good. She talked that talk.

She got me.

Shelled down there. And then this is where I gotta put my girl in time out.

Because maybe you lost.

You did all of that and then you lost. And this was Carra's game to win. Like you come in with these heavy blocks. She does this for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. This is what Cara does. Push stuff around CrossFit. This is her thing. But that's why I'm telling you. The equalizer of that puzzle then muscles don't know nothing. That puzzle come into play and you gotta be ready.

And oh, oh my girl.

It didn't even seem like she was moving the pieces that much.

I feel like what we're learning this season when it comes to mercenaries is that there actually is an advantage to being immersed in the game because some of the people that have come that we know or heavy hitters like a Laurel like a car and still ultimately aren't.

Coming home with the w.

I feel like they seem maybe a little off their game because you're flying in. You know, you probably were on your laptop two hours ago or a couple of market into your accountant doing whatever, and then you got to have your head in the game. And it's really hard to like just fully switch on like that and switch off. It's got to be that because otherwise I'd be like those people were living in the house.

There's no way they'd be taken out.

But we also noticed that they both got flustered.

Though.

When it comes to Carra and Laurel, they both got flustered, and I think it was the pressure.

The pressure, absolutely not.

I think it was.

A pressure of knowing that they had to come in here and they had to win because of the title they were coming in with. You know what I mean, I can't be the one to lose to y'all. And that just shows what they think of the cast, don't underte.

Baby, Yeah, I guess. Yeah, that's especially when you talk to back. If you're gonna talk the talk, you better at least we had to do the.

Hop or something.

You can't walk the Walk Darrell put Drell in that categor to My nominees for gold Star and Timeout are the same. So my nominees for gold Star are Kara for all the reasons that you mentioned. She came in talking the talk. I love that she came in to cause chaos and she did. I love that she didn't hold back like she was leaning into her villain role here,

Like I'm not going in today. I'm chilling.

You know, I've just been napping, put on a little lip glass, showed up at the arena, said what's up to TJ? You know, analyzed his outfit, and then all of a sudden your name gets called and you've got to go down there against an icon. Shelle turned it on and did what needed to be done. So she gets my gold star for the Time Out. The nominees are Michelle because she was terrified to go down there and because she had that freak out when they called

She didn't walk.

She didn't walk the walk, she didn't hop, skip jump, she she she just sat down.

So my time out for the week is gonna have to go to Kara. I get it.

It's a disadvantage, and I appreciate how gracious she was. Ultimately, when Michelle won, I thought that was beautiful to see. You know, I'm glad for Michelle, but I feel like it also would be really cool to see Kara.

Especially after being gone for so long, you know what I mean. Yeah, to come back to that wind would have been great.

But shout out to Michelle.

You did that, Yes she did, Yes she didn't. Now, I mean if the Godfather was strong already push push, she's now coming in that house full.

I know I would, but you I mean, like you just I mean.

She was able to like get people to do stuff without backing it up, and now she just backed it up tenfold, like.

They were carrying her away like she was the queen or she Ba.

Right, Yes, I expect she literally called herself the Queen bee anyway, So I expect to see.

Her running things.

And what's cool is not only do we have we don't have to just wait till next week to see what happens.

Because we've got her on the podcast today, So.

You are going to ask her all the questions and talk about all the things. And she even tells us about her thoughts or feelings about coming on the podcast.

Yeah, which is I was actually surprised by that.

I blame y'all right, right, right, I'm surprised, man, I was like, wait what. But it's a good conversation and so much fun, and I'm glad we get to talk to the Godfather. So I don't know what that accent was. So grab a snack, do your thing. You guys are not going to want to miss this. We're talking to Survivor winner. Yeah all right, and Tom holland faith Michelle

So please give a big.

Round of applause and welcome the fabulous Godfather. Michelle Fitzgerald.

Hi, Michelle, Hi, I've never seen that movie.

It's you. It's giving you well.

According to Michelle, she is the queen Bee of the worker Bee, so that too, like the Queen Bee of I.

Was cringing, so nobody cringes harder watching myself back than myself.

I'm like, how would you say you're playing the game? Like, how would you rate your gameplay up to this point this season.

You know, I was tentative to go on this season in general because I had just gotten off the last one. I think it's weird because when I went in, my entire mindset was like, I'm just gonna relax. I was so stressed out with like the Hopper situation last season that emotionally I didn't have it in me to like feel like I could play really hard, which is why I just decided to be like, hey, here's my group.

I'm just gonna be like Worre sticking to this.

And I really was trying to make it as simple as possible for myself, so I didn't emotionally go through what I went through last season.

So for you to establish such a strong alliance, did you make some calls beforehand? And if so, who were you speaking with? Who did you initially talk to before coming into the house.

So I actually agreed to go on the show about two days prior to going on the show. Wow, I only had about a week and a half between filming, and so I had said no, and I was at my parents and I was talking to my brother, and you know, he has some brain injuries and stuff, and so I think for my family a lot of times, watching it back is like a bright spot in like a situation that can be a little bit challenging at home. So he was like, Michelle, I really want you to

So it didn't leave a lot of time.

To do the sort of maybe like the pregaming that would traditionally go down. But yeah, then real, like my friendships in this house, aren't somebody that like, I don't need to call them be like hey, let's set up a three game alliance. I talked to these people really regularly outside of it. Olivia comes in, stays for a week at my house. I talked to Mariah all the time.

Have to know with all of these dare I say strong personalities.

With all of these these these these humans, right, with all of these humans that you are connected to and that are playing this game, how is it that you managed to become the conductor of the tin because that's exactly who you are this season?

You are the conductor of the trains. I don't are that what we see?

Yeah, I don't think that that.

Was an intention of mine at all. Like I think it was just more like I, I don't know, people would just come and ask my opinion on things, and you know, obviously I think that because I have certain people that I want to make sure that they're okay, I end up sometimes, like you know, pushing for certain names over others. But it wasn't really my intention to kind of step into a role of like leadership at all. It's actually something I in my regular life, I'm definitely

So, at what point in this game did you realize the so that, by your own words, you were the queen Bee and the others were the worker bees? Like when did you start to realize, oh, wow, I'm kind of Jay and I are kind of running this game.

Not I hate that so much.

I think that it was coming from like hearing people like Erassio and Kylon and Colleen. You know, the feedback I was getting was like like sort of like we need to cut off the head of the snake sort of thing.

So I think just based on their perception.

It was making me feel like that was what was going on more so than like it was me actively trying to be like the queen Bee or whatever the quote is. If I could literally reach into production and strike it out myself, I would.

But yeah, yeah, but you didn't lie. Yeah, it's not like you told a lie. You didn't lie, because that's pretty much how you're being viewed, and you use the analogy of the head of the snake because I've used that in reference to you on this podcast before.

I'm like, she's the hit Who're gonna cut her off? You know what I'm saying.

I do want to know in this game, everyone has their one, their their number one, and their number two. We know that Jay is your number one guy. I want to hear from you, who is your number one girl in this game?

Mariah pretty much was always the person. So I knew that I wanted to be with Olivia, Mariah and Nourice. Olivia and Nourie were really close. And even though you know, Olivia comes and she stayed with me, and I'm really close with Olivia, I knew that they were always going to have each other's backs more than mine. So for me, Mariah was sort of that that person for me. But then I also come in with this relationship with Burna, and we obviously have our own, you know, our own situation.

Yes, please tell us about that, because all we see is her getting It seems like she's constantly really hurt by decisions that you make in the game, but we don't.

I feel like, as if.

You were we don't have a full or even a partial understanding of the depths of you all's friendship or relationship ship outside of this house. So you mentioned all the other people that come and stay with you vacation to them, what is your dynamic in relationship with Berna to the point that she feels like she should be your number one and that she literally called you, she called you her en in this episode.

Yeah, I know.

I think.

Me and Berna played Spy's Eyes and Allies together, and you know during that time, I mean we would check in with each other whatever. Actually, some shit went down with me and Amanda and Ashley at one point and I kind of had said something on a podcast or something like that, kind of shading Berna, and she was really really mad at me, and you know, after that point,

So yeah, let's let's take it back for a minute and let's talk about Can I say something really quick?

Yeah, of course.

I So I haven't listened to podcasts, but I've heard that you guys have been shading me a bit on the podcast.

Is this true?

No, I think I think you've I've called you the godfather. I think if look, I will admittedly if anything happens in an episode, we assess it in said episode, and then I forget it for next episode.

So I was really tentative to come on because I was like, you know.

I I am trying to be more and more active participant in my mental health, and like, you know, I think sometimes I'm like, why would I put myself in a situation where I feel like I'm defensive or like whatever.

So I was kind of tentative to come on here. If I'm being honest with.

You, we could feel yeah, we could totally feel that.

Yeah we can send yeah, yeah, yea, yeah, it's very apparent. What did you hear because like I told you, the most that I think I've said about you, and I just said it was I call you the head of the snake, And I was wondering why no one tried to like get.

You out because you're because running every.

Running the game. But I mean, what did you hear? Because I mean, you know me, I'm a straight shooter.

Oh if it was anything in particular, But people side on my people first citing my I DMS like did you see this?

Like or did you listen to this?

Because I think they don't like you, And I was like, I just I mean, not everybody else to like everybody whatever. But obviously, like I'm like, okay, do I put myself in a situation on this podcast with two people who don't talk with me.

But Michelle, you can always direct message, you can always send a text. We are super transparent. I have never not liked you and my stands for the show as a whole. The most part is like the way some one plays the game is how they play the game, and I may not like that, but that's not a reflection of what I think of them as a person, because it's the game and it's like very different. So

Stop with him, but it's certainly been no shade.

Also, anyone, if anyone ever sends you that demigain a, you can always come to us, but do ask them to quote it, because them saying they think we don't like you, but not but not saying what is a very different than what.

I just wanted to address it because I can feel myself be tense when I'm like and I don't that. Obviously that's not going to get the best results. So I was like, oh, let me just confront it head on, yeah, rather than me sitting here and be defensive this entire episode. So good.

Well, we appreciate You're glad you did that.

Yeah, you're glad.

Yeah, and because it was we definitely felt but I mean, and you know me, outside of this, you could easily you know how.

It's not that easy, Like it's intimidating.

And also you don't want to be somebody.

Who was like, do you guys like me?

Like, that's not it.

I just I just was wondering whether I should put myself in a position to come on knowing that you know what I mean totally.

Well, here's the thing too, is I think because also we do have you know, we just we just talked, we asked questions and we really do try to do a fair space of giving people space and again separating that like it's gameplay versus the person. And also what's not to like about this? I am personally someone who likes to play a game where if I don't have to go to elimination, I don't and if I can, you know, if I'm cool with people in the house, great.

You know, she's like, Michelle's my.

Number one, number one, but it didn't seem equal, like there's too many numbers, right, So it's like that can't be And so for that, it's sort of like, how are people so loyal when they know their number three or two?

Whatever?

Like on the thing that didn't make sense. But it's still not a criticism to you. It's a criticism to them because they've opted into that.

I think too, like.

It, okay.

So it's like you go to.

Try to figure out a good analogy for this situation, like ed Okay, Like for example, I ed openly would no, he's not my number one whatever, but I probably still am the closest person to him out of everybody else.

In the castle. I get what you're saying.

I had a relationship with men well, me and himy cooked up on spies, eyes and allies.

Obviously me and him are going.

To be closer than him and anybody else because of that relationship.

So like, so I think that despite the fact.

That maybe they're not my number one, I'm still the closest person that they have based on.

Right, So the casting, but I mean, it seems to be working out well for you. And one thing I have I do not remember that I said on the podcast, and I also think I tweeted about it is at least now I know some stuff is coming up in future episodes. Don't give any spoilers, but at least in the previous episodes, we've seen the way you and Jay work so well together.

I have said that I.

Feel like I wish and people have agreed in the tweets from listening about I was like, I don't know, I.

Just feel like if we could figure.

Out how to get that bond back. I know they're just friends now, but I don't know. It just you two seem to work very well to each other with each other up until point.

So know that is floating.

Out what you know what? Okay, me and Jay obviously we used to date in the day. That's how we ended up on Bride our Dies together, and we.

Were like we were like drinking a lot of tequila fighting.

We were just know, we don't want that, Yeah, we don't want any of that.

But we went on Ride our Dies.

I was like my parents were like, oh fuck, you're gonna be with Jay, Like this is going to be probably really bad, and it just took the opposite direction. You know, we've both grown so much since. Yeah, because we know.

Each other so well.

It's just like I know what ticks him off, you know what ticks me off, you know, and we have a pretty good open line of communication.

So like it's, yeah, we see that, Like that's the thing that we see. And you guys, like remember that challenge that involved the cars, right, like directing together, like the way obviously it was a whole team thing, but just seeing the way you two work together and communicate as leaders was just lovely to see. And so I know you guys were toxic apparently together back in the day. But it sounds like you're both grown. I'm just saying it sounds like you both grown.

But Day has a girlfriend. I love her, so I'll let her.

Okay, no disrespect. Okay, so notice girlfriend and.

He can keep his regular girlfriend. You know.

I like it? No, I like it.

I like it.

Now speaking of challenge, girlfriend, boyfriend, can you walk in this love story of Callums girl? First of all, when did you find out that he had a girlfriend?

And y'all found out episode one?

Are you serious you didn't even know after you were done filming? No, nobody told you what.

I had no idea. I found out when the episode aired.

Stop.

Yeah, seriously, some people from podcasts had reached out, like did you know Calum had a girlfriend? I was like what, So, yeah, Wow, it was really really hard.

Were you guys still talk keeping in touch up until that point at all? Or had you gone cold turkey for conversation after you after he got eliminated.

So basically the way it went down, Like, you know, I got home and I had been under the expectation that like as soon as I got out with the texting message, I was like calling for this boy.

You guys, Yeah, it seemed like it totally.

And I get back and I opened my WhatsApp and he had messaged me all this lovey w stuff. And then one day he messaged me this brick of a text being like I don't think this is ever gonna work out whatever. I'm like, okay, I call him. He doesn't answer me for four days. I'm like, bet this guy sucks. Yeah, he finally answers and I'm.

Like, screw you, dude.

Like I am going through, like you know, just getting off the show. I'm like feeling really emotionally drained. Right now, and I could have used your support. I don't want to fucking talk to you anymore, you know, setting a boundary. He's like, no, no, no, please, let's I'm sorry, I'm sorry I didn't step up. Let's still talk whatever. I was like, I'll keep you here, but keep you at an arms distance.

Rights still flirting with.

Me, texting me, doing all this stuff. And when I saw the episode, I called him, and I called him right away, and I was like, excuse me, Like, how fucking dare you like hoodwink me this entire seat? And were you using me? I, you know, ship like personal stuff about me?

Why do it?

Like, yeah, I.

Can't even wrap my head around why you would go to the lengths that he went to to deceive me and to continue to deceive me, to not give me a heads up. And yeah, so me and him, we're not chatting right how His girlfriend came into my d MS and I had teeter tottering about whether or not I wanted to reach out to her once I found out and I had enough, Like I wasn't really trying

He's yeah he did, he dipped out.

I don't know if you heard that, because they knew that he would like again like day and I said, we are straight talkers, so we think you do something fed up on show, We're.

Gonna ask you.

And I'm like, your shit, yeah exactly, Like I am so sorry you went through that that because you could tell watching it, you could tell that you were genuine. You could tell that you didn't know and so and it didn't. And again everyone we've had come on, they didn't know in the house either, like has said, like we had no idea, We had no idea.

Which is wild.

And then to see him say I love you to the girl, and I know, I know social.

I mean, I was crying. I was I was a mess.

Sorry, Michelle, you know what, fuck it.

I'm sorry.

People are like this, you know, watching this uson, watching so many people cheat on their significant others. It's like, that's so I have no faith in love anymore. I really, I'm so jaded.

Don't let them, don't let them beat you, because that is not real life, Like it's real life if you allow it to be a real life. But know that responsible, smart, emotionally intelligent people don't do that. That's not the norm, and so there's no need to settle for it. And then also the people that aren't acknowledging their role in it are knowing the hell.

Out of me.

This season, people who were like, oh, well, he has a girlfriend, she should know or whatever, you know, like whatever, Like no, you know what, don't eat your ring?

Devin makes me faith in love again because I would love a piece of jewelry like that.

Oh, thank you.

I feel like you met Adam when we did Aftermath, or maybe he wasn't there that day we did our episode.

I don't remember, but thank you.

And he's a good guy and he absolutely wouldn't cheat because he knows it'd be over.

But and I don't mean just us over.

I'm crazy, so so know that, you know. I'm glad Callum showed his ass so that you didn't have to invest even more time. But I hate that you went through that because no one does it, like that's just he's don't get me.

I tried to take solace in the fact that, like listen, it sucks watching it back and stuff. But yeah, here he was making me breakfast every day, bringing me hey girl, I got a lot of perks. So I'm kind of like, you know what, I'm just gonna try to appreciate it for one. There you go, right, and hopefully it comes to enions that I could like to say that he's shipped to his face, but I feel like he's probably not gonna show up.

Who would you?

I think so too. Who would you rather battle in an arena? Callum or Laurel.

I'll take Callum.

I mean, I'm not.

You still don't want to take Laurel.

Your reaction by the way, when Laurel showed up, like I don't it was Michelle. I can't even Also, by the way, I remembering, was it on this podcast or the USA when.

We talked about how Tom Holland's like sexual fan of yours? Do we podcast with you?

Yeah?

Okay? Anyway, so shout out to Tom Holland if he's listening.

So your reaction from going to being Godfather es, which you're gonna you don't have to watch the whole movie, but you got to watch this anounsis.

Godfather is literally like a mafia leader basically, so.

Your godfathers all season and then as this Laurel Park comes, you do a one eighty into like.

Oh my god, oh my god, I don't know, I don't know what's it?

Like what this is under my skin? Do you know what I mean? Like you just sometimes have that person who just like they dig their teeth into you, and then you like they bother you because you can't understand our dynamicsand what is it? I can't understand. I have a hard time understanding her, Like we're just so different. She's super like analytical and I'm super like emotional, and so I feel like we're just very, very different in

Core hates Do you know what the root of that is?

Like? Why because I threw her in on Rider drives back to back in Senhow that's the only reason. That is the reason.

I mean, that's a big enough.

I mean there's people who throw me into elimination and it's like it ain't no beef.

But if I see you, I see you. But it is not like you know, It's not like.

I'm saying I've had I've gone home every single season and anybody who sent me home, Like, I don't take shit personal though, Like I've said this on the podcast before, I really don't like if it happens to me, I'm just like okay, I move right along, like I.

Understand Cura games.

But yeah, she takes it really really personal. She's like, I will be coming for you until I get you.

I'm like why, But I feel like that's but I feel like that's also goes back to her analytical side, right, Like I actually think she sees it as like black and white, like I even in the sense that she could still she could even still like you. I'm not saying she does like you, Michelle, but but I'm saying like she could even still like you in real life, you know, like out or be like hey, But in the game, it's like have you sent me home? So

Yeah. No, she came to New York recently and we actually went out. It was like a big wait of us.

So you guys, okay, wait, so you guys were interact you outside of the show.

You said you she hates you your core.

But you guys were in a group and you went out without supervision.

Okay, but we're talking. We were laughing.

I literally said to her, I was like, Laurel, do we need to make out? Is it sexual tension? Just tell me what's go show? And she I don't know. You can't get down to the bottom of the bottom of em.

What did she say?

Did she say anything?

Back to you though, when you said when you were like, what is it, did she say anything?

No, No, she said maybe I'm the makeout thing. So there's a shot there. Oh.

Oh, at least you guys were hanging out.

That's like you seem like you're very open and willing, and I think I think once you guys have this showdown in dis elimination.

Because it has happened half happened.

Yeah, once you guys have this show down that I think it'll be like, okay, so let me call you it.

Yeah.

Yeah, I actually think they could be one hell of an alliance.

Oh.

Like, I think once you.

Guys get the like, get that out of the way, like basically, once she beats your ass in arena once so she feels better. I feel like I'm not saying you can't beat her. I believe you can, but I'm just saying she's not probably gonna beat a reset.

And like, I don't want to go guess her, but I will say that part of me wishes that I had you know, I'm a scaredy cat.

I wish I had a backfloat, and I wish I was just like.

You know what, I should just go down and fight a little fight it out right now, I just felt like I had too much to lose.

By God's smart, smart smart, though it would have been smart to volunteer.

Yeah, we heard you say that. That would be like smart girl for who and what?

Yeah, you have right to prove you have nothing, so proof?

What would you have done if she had called you down there?

Probably what I did with Carra? It was literally was just like.

Okay, And when you saw in the arena this time, was that before you guys hung out in New York that you just told us about or was this after you guys had like where you saw.

Her because recently?

So it was after okay? So so you saw each other after that whole thing.

Okay.

So also the similarities between you and Laurel, the fact that it was Kara that you went against, given their whole history of Laurel car used to be besties now not besties gone against each other in the arena multiple times.

Let me tell you, Okay, this girl, Kara, she came up to me and she was like, oh, Laurel really doesn't like you, huh. I was like, I thought, you don't like Laurel either, And you know, the saying the enemy of your enemy is your friend, right, we have a mutual enemy here. Apparently if you got I don't know, maybe they're not enemies anymore, because apparently Laurel had saw her in the hotel and said to choose me.

I think that's also a factor here as well.

You know what I thought about that?

Wow?

So like so I was just like, okay, I bet, but I was like, girl, you didn't get the memo with me and you were together, honey, Like.

How did she know that you? Because she kept calling you orange shirt? And so how did she know? Then? If Laurel told her pick Michelle, how did she know that orange Shirt was Michelle without calling you?

I think that she I think she clearly knew who I was.

I don't think she just wanted to call you orange shirt.

Orange Shirt is like a dick, like you're not even important enough for me to bother with me. It's disrespectful. Honestly, you know who I am. You know you're gonna you started with me. You always knew you were going to call me down. There's no fucking way that I'm going to sell one of my girls out to go against you. So I just sat on it. I was like, fineal, I'll go down. It is what it is.

And then she also mentioned something about Paullie had said something about Michelle too, so that was right.

I thought that that was very interesting. And I was in Vegas with Pollie after this, and I was like, what fuck Pollie?

You know because she because I asked her. I was like, why did you pick me?

While we were like prepping for our interview and She's like, Polly told me you were a snake something like that.

And I was like, like, me and Pollie worked together. He was on team Red Flags with me. I thought we were good. So I asked him in Vegas.

He's like, you know, there's other there's other factors at play than that, so don't He's like, there's other information that you're not you're not getting.

I was like, okay, so you think that's where the Laurel So you think that kind of implied that, like Laurel said something.

I don't know. I just heard that Laurel had said something, But I don't know what the other factories are. I'm not gonna think too deep into it. Of course, maybe he did say I was a sneak. I can be a snake sometimes so like, whatever it is, what it is.

Do you feel like you and car are cool now though? Because she seemed gracious when you want so, do you feel like you guys are that it's like?

Or have you seen her? Since I know you saw Laurel.

He was also in New York with Laurel game.

Yeah, so we had all went out to dinner, but we sat on opposite sides. I don't I don't hold any animosity towards her at all, but I don't know her really at all.

Right, okay, bottom line whatever was said behind closed doors, you want so, right.

I know, I really was shitting bricks. And then I just came to a point that I was like, you know what, I'm tired. I was tired from the USA and I was tired from this game. And I was like, if this is where it ends for me, I can lose to Kara and be okay. So I just went into this place of like total peace, like if I go out, this is how I want to go out. If I win, great, I get to stay. So I was just in a place of acceptance at that point.

All right, jall, we have to take a quick right, but we'll be right back after this who I'm ready? You ready? We ready? Okay, So let's get back to the show.

You made the puzzle look easy, and I know it wasn't. I know the blocks are heavy, but you made it look easy. Car made it look insanely hard. So like, what do you.

Think was the disconnect of like.

What was your strategy and why do you think Car struggled so much with it?

It was a very very simple puzzle to be transparent with you, But.

So it has to you with the.

Rings and the coloration.

It's it's a lot of times with puzzles like that, it's just like attention to detail, so you have to realize.

Like things could look like they're lining up, but one color.

Shift, like is gotcha?

Is all that it takes sometimes. So really I wasn't battling the puzzle much. I was battling the heavy of the pieces, which they didn't struggle with at all, you know, But that was my like Achilles heel and.

In this.

But the puzzle was like for me, I felt fairly easy to understand. I was a nervous Yeah, there was two different sides to each piece which were different fifting the puzzle because I'd be like, wait, this isn't.

The pattern that I'm going with. I was nervous.

I was going to get to the end and realized, fuck I had done something wrong and I was going to have to flip them all.

But it had just yeah, I kind of fell into play.

I guess I want to give you an opportunity to clarify, because you know how these Twitter streets are.

Girl, you know how to twitter you with I sure do. I'd be all up in that thing.

And you went against someone who is very well loved and you beat her, right, and so the Twitter streets are going to say you won because the cast helped you. How do you stand on that?

I mean, people can say whatever they want.

I don't really, I don't really care because I was there and I know, and it is like people were yelling from the sidelines.

At a certain point, I was like, hey, stop yelling.

Like I saw it, I understood it only I know that like I can't. I can't make other people understand what was going on in my mind. But like it, I understood the puzzle. I didn't need help, you know what I mean? Nobody like if people could come down and push the heavy pieces for me, that would have helped right the puzzle something that I just I honestly just understood it. There was no need for assistance on the sidelines, but I was I honestly took the assistance from this.

I took like the cheering more as.

Like a motivator, Like more than I need like help, I.

Needed to hear people.

Having my back that they wanted you Yeah.

Yeah, And that's that moral boost, like after unexpectedly getting called down and we felt like it was going against a savage and like, you know, feeling a little bit intimidated, Like it was like, Okay, I have all these people like supporting me, and that was helpful.

Did that also affect because we saw earlier in this particular episode, the whole Kyland and Mariah thing, and we see you kind of or like flip out a little bit when it seems like maybe Kyland questioned you or questioned your loyalty and whether or not you're going to throw this challenge. So can you take us to like what you felt in that moment and why you think it affected you so much.

I was fucking passed. I saw mad. I was literally so mad because you know what it is, I would get really anxious hips over water in general, and okay, and you're telling me that this thing is just going to like shove me and push me off the side. So I I like go a little bit inside of myself when like, you know, we get our teams and Kyland wants to talk through strategy. He's really analytical. He needs to talk everything through, and I kind of go like inward, I.

Have a hard time. I don't want to strategize when I'm anxious.

I just need to like, m there's not much strategize, in my opinion that you can do on this. I just like, yeah, kind.

Of like self comfort.

And so he mistook my silence for like, is Michelle gonna throw this? And that makes sense and he said he had asked Mariah, and Ria was like, Maria's like, You're not going to throw this, right? I was like, where's that even coming from? Why would I throw this? And also I'm so small, I suck it shit like this like you think in me to throw Yeah, like how.

Would you really throw it? Except for get on the other team's side and try and push it. There wasn't really as a unless you were the strongest guy right or the strongest person there. There wasn't really a way one single person could sabotage. I don't think no.

I had no. I had no I never wanted to throw it. So I think my.

Anxiety, like leading into the challenge, plus hearing that I was like, dude, this is not it right now, like my team doesn't trust me. It was not the morale that I needed going into that challenge. I was just like I was fucking freaking out. To be honest with you, I didn't do well hips over Water.

Yeah, it terrifies me.

Yeah, I don't understand why you guys don't love the heights. Yeah, and I'll do that over endurance any day. Like I see heights over water, I'm like, well, I don't like endurance. I'm like, oh god, I don't like endurance either, like any of the challenges, let's be here. Wait, how did you feel about the food one that we saw recently? How did you feel about the one where you guys had to eat the gross stuff?

No? So then you know, but I was freaking out because I have Every single time people hear that you're on Survivor, they're like, oh my gosh, you have to eat gross stuff. That's like the second question that I get to asked other than like where do you h Those are like the two questions I always get asked. And I've done now six seasons of shows. I never once have had to have an eating challenge in any of them. So I felt I was like dodging this bullet.

Oh.

Oil was coming out of me from every forfest. It was horrible.

Oh my god, Oh my god, Michelle, I know, I don't feel like I'll ever look at olive oil the same way.

I went to Italy and I had it all over like pasta and I actually had to like leave the restaurant and go into the parking lot to throw up because it like triggered me.

Oh my god. Yeah, So embarrassing. Yeah, that is crazy. That is so bad.

Speaking of being triggered, I want to go back to a couple episodes ago because we see you. I feel like there are Mama Bird moments that we see in this season too, and we see you get concerned over Mariah for a bit and feeling like she because you mentioned she's your number one, and feeling like she's getting I don't know if it's distracted by James or just kind of like attaching herself to games, or maybe even just putting herself out on a limb and like putting a target on her back for James.

Can you walk us through, especially because you're such.

An excellent social player and reader of people, can you walk us through why that was so concerning for you? And at this point in the game, are you still concerned by that or or have you? Do you now feel like, oh, okay, I got my girl Mariah back, like she's balancing it all out now.

I was exceptionally anxious over her relationship with Jams for multiple reasons. Obviously, I just played a season with Bananas and I have a relationship with him, so oh right.

I didn't even think about that and.

We started my first show with her.

Their romance is sort of like bubbling it, right, So I was there for like the origin story of it, all right, I've been friends with her, and so I know how their relationship has kind of progressed and stuff, And so she has the bed next of mine. I'm seeing her every single night crying and going through this like emotional rollercoaster of like it's her like justifying it in her mind and then her being really upset about it, And I was like, emotionally is killing me like I

I don't want to see your storyline.

I don't want this to be your battle at you're fighting every single day. And then that kind of combined with the fact that everybody kept coming up to me and being like Ry is not trustworthy. She you know, I'm like, it's also jeopardizing your game, it's taxing you emotionally. I'm just like, I feel like this is kind of

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

I forgot the fact that you were there for the origin of it all too, so you certainly have a perspective, right and sharing a room with her of all of the happenings and the things, which is you know, which is wild and then makes sense too of your sort of commentary of like this is the game in itself is stressful enough, and so anytime you're adding these layers of complexities that only makes it that much Yeah worse.

Speaking of layers of complexity, my mind is all over the place with this Olivia and harassial.

Yeah, what's going on about?

Like what.

You know?

Definitely interesting watching it back.

It was interesting at the time coming from somebody who came from writer dies and me and Jay have like it was such a.

Bonding experience for us.

We learned how to communicate, We learned how each other's brain works, how we function, what we expect of each other, you know, all of these things, like there's nothing that brings you closer with somebody than being their partner.

I truly believe that.

And so you know, I'm watching this all go down, and I'm like, wow, me and Jay have such a different path as Rider dies than than they are. And I think that a lot of it has to do with Olivia's like needs to speak things through.

She needs to talk, she needs to.

Be she needs you know, she wanted him to tell her like I you're my writer, die, you're my number.

She needed that reassess.

Okay, yeah, like verbal affirmation.

She needed to Yes, she's the words of affirmation girl, And he's say, acts of service die, And so I think she just wasn't getting kind of the like the love that she needed from even though he's like, I always will have your back, I'll always support you, right, it seems for him, but for her, she's.

Like, not, that's not balancing out the actions. Don't need you know.

Did they ever seem to have it?

Because so far what we're seeing and we had dreis On who alluded to the fact that like things happened between them, between Olivia and Taracio, and at the time, we were just shocked anyway, because we remember them provide or dies, and we're like, and so far in the episodes up to that point they seem fine, So we're kind of like, how is that even possible? Did you ever see them sort of try and talk to each other, cause I feel like that part we haven't fully seen,

Down, hey, blah blah blah, and then it's all done.

I think that there was an effort there on Olivia's part to pull him and have a conversation with him, but he just like doesn't like to talk game, you know. He's just like I'm here, I'm strong and I know that I can get to the end on my abilities, and like he's very physical, you know.

And she's like she plays the social game, she.

Really does too, but she very much likes to be in the circle, in the know, making the decisions, you know.

So like I think they're just they played.

The game really really differently, and that's and they just are so different, you know.

Yeah, they definitely are different. What did you think about the advice Jay was giving Olivia, which was, you know, it seems like she put a lot of pressure on herself around them not winning. Rider dies, and then Jay was saying, you know, let that go. You're the reason why you guys got as far. Did you agree with that sentiment or that advice.

Or I mean I was very close with Olivia and Rider guys, So for me, I didn't know what I was doing.

The Rider dies, Let's be honest. I was just I was I don't know.

We saw a little bit of that Michelle. We definitely didn't ride her.

Die a fucking mess and Rider dies. Who knows what I was doing when I was there?

Who was that girl? I have no idea, But I think that they both made it as far as they did because they're so different, Like she was navigating with things on the social end, just very very liked in the house and he was as well. But he definitely brought the physical aspect that allowed them to win competitions and you know, eliminations and stuff like that. So it really was like a great combo package.

But now that it's an.

Individual game here, we're seeing how different they play, and I think that that's leading to some fractures within you know, the two of them. But she's also like going to Nourise to try to like bridge that gap.

She's kind of using Nourie as like, can you make sense of this for me?

Yeah?

And can you maybeven middleman this, you know what I mean?

Yeah?

And I think Nourice is just more like he's got your back, It's fine, And Olivia's like, I need you to step in and be that person. You guys, have a conversation, facilitate that, and so I think that that was what she was trying to do, but now it's causing friction within herd. Maurice as well, Yeah.

Did you understand or did you hear anything about like we saw Nurice talking with her family right, and her family said Olivia said something or was doing something which didn't like.

I were talking with about her.

Yeah, yeah, but they were friends before, it didn't.

I don't what do you know, Michelle about that, because that just didn't add up to me.

That seems so left.

Field, Yeah, super left field.

And we did find out.

I found that out later because you know, I started to see some maybe like distrust sort of beginning to divide them, and I always just thought it was maybe the Erasio thing or whatever it was. You know, the game progresses and it tests her relationships, it really does, so I just thought, whatever it is. And then later I found out that she had this conversation with her brother.

Right?

So? And I think she always still did trust her, I think, you know, but yeah, I would if somebody freaking called me when I'm stressed out like that and a family member was like, you can't trust Jay, I'd be like what, Yeah, what do you mean I can't trust Jay? You know?

Yeah?

But I feel like you would have went straight.

To Jay and said something about him, right.

I would. You have a nightmare and you're like, boyfriend, she's on you or something in the nightmare, and then you wake up and you're like you can stay over there.

I'm mad, Yes.

That JA would be like what the fuck are you talking about?

Yeah?

Like, I don't even know what You're mad at me? Like what are you talking?

Yeah?

Yeah, I am so okay, let's get back into this, Gabeiraio, we're here.

When do you think he's turned on you?

I think that I think that there's it seems right now that the girls are sort of the decision makers, right, But yeah, that's actually like not true to what was actually going on. In my opinion, I think Jay was pulling a lot of the strings, but he didn't want to be seen.

As pulling the strings.

From what I gather nowadays, like after the fact, I think he was kind of floating out Arassio and Kylin's name for a bit with some of the guys like a Menuel or Corey Callum when Callum was there.

So I think the deceit or.

The you know, it came first before Rossio didn't trust me. I think that there was some situations going on behind Herrassio's back that made him. And the thing is, the great thing about me and Jay is that, you know, what I do is reflection.

Of him when he does inflection of me.

But that's also kind of a curse because I don't know what's going on, and I'm like, right, suddenly, you know, having some animosity towards me, But I didn't know what was going on with Jay's sort of other plans. So that was a tough conversation with me and Jay ultimately had. But I could just tell Erassio it was just like I don't fuck with Michelle.

And I was like, shit, wow, yeah, he seems like the type two that once he makes up his mind, his mind is made.

Like I tried, man, I sat him down. I could sense it was bad. So I was like, let me talk to him in the club. Let me reassure him. Olivia is my girl, Nourie's girl, you know where we want to protect the same people here, you know. I just wanted to have a combo with him, and it was like blank, and I was like, yeah, I'm not gonna try.

Yeah, I think two people are starting to see your power in this game, in this particular season at the game, like it's obvious, right, So it's for anyone who feels like they're at a lower end of the totem pole. I think part of it is is like we've even had people on this season saying like, I don't know what it is the draw of Michelle, but like I wanted her to like me.

I wanted I wanted her to like so it's like this.

I don't know magic fairy does, I don't know what you keep in your pockets, but whatever it is that people are starting, maybe even putting up a guard because they go, look, I know when I talk to Michelle or I know, if I start to listener, i am going to like her or agree or want to join forces or whatever else.

So I'm just gonna stone wallet to tryumph protect myself. Yeah, from it.

That was like my mama things.

Yeah, I mean, like, I think here's the thing too, Like there are certain people who I'm not working with. I actively was telling Kayland, like we both knew we weren't working together, and yet we probably the most in the house honestly because we both are frank about the

Think you're good at reading people. I think you're good, And I don't mean reading people in like a bad way. I mean that, like you mentioned that you go inward and therefore you can be a bit of an introvert. And I think you're more in tune with reading the

It's just my theory, but that's what it seems like.

Well, thank you, I think thank you. Like I definitely, I I definitely like love people, and I think that I can read. Yes, I think you're right, like I noticed. I think what made me and Berna this season probably so close but also have so much tension is like I know, I could sense that she's emotionally going through things, and so it's like she needs somebody to like just

Pleaser a lot of ways. That's a really difficult like thing.

That's why you're offering to make out with Laurel, because you're trying to please Laurel.

So that you guys, I do.

She is beautiful also, but yes, it show it reflects itself as a little bit of like the people please their energy because you want to be like liked in that way, how did it feel even given all of that, and even and again when we when I call you the Godfather, it's certainly not pejorably like I think. It's a skills it's a masterful. People who love this game will appreciate the way you've been able to navigate this this season.

It's that you just give.

Yeah, that's not a name, that's a that it is. It's skillful.

It's it's and I actually don't feel like which is part of the reason why I appreciate it. I feel like, so far, at least from what we've seen, you haven't been snaky. Now Corey, we've discussed this with him. How you managed to forgive him in the game, I'll know or trust him again, but he and he admitted.

That he was snaky in some of the ways you played.

You have been pretty transparent about like your moves and what you're gonna do. Yet you still are running the house, which is just super impressive.

When I'm sneaky in the past, it has not gone well in the challenge. So I was like, I'm just gonna be as transparent as possible because I didn't want to make this game emotionally harder.

For myself than it needed to be.

Ye, Like, I'm just going to try to play as like not manipulative, just to make sure that I like emotionally, I'm okay. And I think because I went in like not putting that much pressure on it, it, you know, it kind of worked out to my advantage. Like the more that you you're like, you love a dog so much, you could squeeze it to death, Like it's nice to like just pet it and relax. I don't. Here's a saying, but I don't. Oh my god, my poor dog.

I give you say. I know your dog probably just moved a few inches away from you right now.

Like if you love something so much, you can smother it, and that's letting the fire breathe.

Instead has allowed for the fire to be bigger.

And that's you know, that's kind of how I feel about the season, I guess.

And you won this elimination, so now you're coming back into the house with some added clout because you beat someone who is a legend in this game. How do you think this affects your game play moving forward throughout the rest of the season.

It really, like, I mean, it did shift my mindset and I said it in the episode, but I really felt like, I mean, Kylin said too, like Michelle can't win. I want to keep her here because my girls can beat her easily. And I very much have that mindset, you know, I've lost so many eliminations. I feel like I'm kind of I'm not winning dailies.

Like I kind of just feel like, Okay, I guess I'm here for the ride.

I'm going to get as many people as I can to the end and we'll just you know, do this season out. But I think my mindset shifted in this moment to being like, whoa wait, wait, you do have a skill set that is unique. And yes, these people are all strong and they're badass and whatever, but I do have a skill set that is unique to me that would allow me to also, you know, succeed if I do get to the final.

So I think it just like.

Made me a little bit more I'm very self deprecating a lot of the time, and it made me a little bit more like confident. And I think confidence is something that like allows you to be successful. If you're not confident that you can win, you probably aren't going to win.

You know, Michelle, you are strong and a badass and a leader, and you deserve to be there. You're playing a beautiful game. Tell Callum to stay fifty thousand miles away from you at any point at this point, Davon and I will have to step in.

Not not a fan, but you're doing.

It's a beautiful season, and I'm sure Tom Holland would be proud. Like I'm just gonna say it, like I haven't talked to him, but I feel like he would be, you know what.

I'm so embarrassed then things like Queen Bee and all of this stuff, and I'm so I'd like hate hearing that. I'm so I'm honestly so embarrassed watching this season back. Like for that reason, I'm more, I think a passive passenger and a lot like I'm a good supporting role. I should not be a main role. I don't feel comfortable in that position. But then I'm trying to think, like, you know, if Wes said something like that, Wes s has seven things like that one episode, you know what I mean?

Literally, I mean he.

Is the mastermind in his own mind, right, and I just like, yeah, I need to be maybe a little bit more maybe okay with this position but it's really uncomfortable for me.

I don't like watching it.

But but growth comes from being uncomfortable, not necessarily saying from saying you're Queen Bee all the time.

You know, but but but we're.

Gonna get you a T shirt made. But growth comes from being uncomfortable. So you may not be comfortable in that space, but it leadership looks good on you.

And the way that people trust.

You is I think a gift you have to give because you have those talents, right or because people feel that way about you. For those who want to follow you and keep up with you and probably sliding your DMS and tell you more nonsense about again, I hope you learn the shoelle if you hear, If you hear, just Michelle, we've done these interviews. I don't know how many times why you would think suddenly we wouldn't like you and I wouldn't like you.

Now, I really was like tended it to come up here, and I like, thank you guys for giving me that moment to talk about it, because the last thing that I want to do is like not open up because I feel a certain way.

So you guys for letting me like talk that through I really appreciate it, and I'll come directly to you next time. I'll screenshot it and.

Be like, period, yeah, yeah, we see we see BS at the roots. I mean shout out to the TV, but we see BS at the roots, so we locked in. You can always be like Davion, what is this? Absolutely yeah, because you was tripping, I was tripping, or we was tripping somebody I know.

Right, Well, I hope you guys go back out of season. Honestly, we'd love to see it. What's what's your deal? Are you guys coming back on or what?

Yeah?

Davon, Oh so where can they find you on social media?

I know Davon is going to make I think we're going to see Davon on I do.

Oh boy? So Instagram?

No what, I'm a really good roommate. So just keep in mind, you know, honey, come.

On if you're ever there.

I'm clean.

But that's so many people, ya, that's true. You can get it right at the top right not the show trying to add to her already long list. You know what, I would feel safe.

I'd be like, I got to worry about Riah Olivia.

You know, Okay, if you want to follow me on Instagram.

It's just a lot of pics of my dog.

I mean, if you if you're into that sort of thing, it's a mish underscore fits.

We appreciate you opening up and being here and just watching you this season. It's been so fun and honey, there wouldn't be a show this season without you, really like true And no, I don't say that to everybody. Definitely didn't say it to Callum, and not just because he was too afraid to come on the podcast. But yeah, so thank you for being here so far. Yes, you're still the Godfather. Don't cring jet it.

It's fine. We'll see how the rest of the season goes. But so happy to have.

You as a part of the challenge fan Michelle and excited to see how you go.

You guys are a wonderful hosts. I hope you continue. And yeah, I enjoyed this really honestly, thank.

You who that was such a great interview.

Yes, I'm glash she decided to come hang out with us despite by.

Right, there's nothing to be there about here.

We got you girl.

But in the meantime, in between times, Devin, where can the people find you on the social of the media.

They can find me on my website that's devinsimone dot com Devin with a y Simon with an icecore to the bottom, and.

You will see my socials.

Or you can just go to Instagram which is Devin Simone, or Twitter or TikTok.

You get the picture. It's all pretty much the same. What about you, day, Where can they find you?

Yes, you can find me on the Instagram at Davon Diane Underscore. You can find me on that was good, Twitter Underscore, TikTok Dave Diane Underscore.

And that's it.

I love that, And thank you guys so much for joining for another episode of MTV's official Challenge podcast. Remember if you liked this episode, rate and review us on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, and tell a friend to tell a friend, and don't be going into any other player's dms talking about Devin and Davon don't like you.

And trying to start drama. We're on to you.

Mm hmm ooh day, I also have to shout out really quick. He goes by damaged golf cart on Twitter. His name is Aaron, but he's freaking hilarious and he always listens to the pod and has the funniest memes about it.

So shout out to you damaged golf cart.

Yes, shout out to you, friend, and for everyone else. You guys can catch new episodes of the Challenge Battle for a New Champion on MTV.

And remember, you can watch the Challenge and more on Paramount Plus. Subscribe at paramount plus dot com and use code Challenge thirty nine by March seven, twenty twenty four and get your first month of Paramount Plus on US. Must be age of majority to subscribe US only. Payment method required, terms and conditions apply. Visit p plus dot legal slash subscription for more.

Yes, and we'll see you next time on MTV's official Challenge podcast.

You come to me on the day of my daughter's wedding.

Ho Lord