Music. Welcome to Mr. and Mrs. Therapy, the podcast that empowers you to transform life's challenges into opportunities for personal growth and healthier relationships. We're your hosts, Tim and Ruth Olson, licensed marriage and family therapists and trauma experts. As experienced therapists with backgrounds in addressing trauma and mental health disorders, we believe there is hope and there certainly is healing.
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Hey everyone, welcome back to Mr. and Mrs. Therapy Podcast. We're so glad that you're here with us today. In the last episode, we started to talk about vulnerability. And so we're going to continue that today. So if you haven't already listened to the first episode, go back and listen to that and then join us here as we jump into today's episode. There is a lot of fear and I know that it is scary to be vulnerable. But something my pastor said this week really resonated with me.
And he said that our deepest desires aren't always our strongest desires. And he was using it in the context of our deepest desires to honor God and bring glory to him and follow him sometimes get superseded by our strongest desires in those moments. But we really have to stay in tune with what are our deepest desires. And we could probably do a whole podcast just on that quote because I think it applies to a lot of things.
But to bring it back to what we're talking about here, when we look at our deepest desires versus our strongest desires, our deepest desires are those connections and that relationship and to be in community with people in a very genuine and honest way where it doesn't feel like we're always hiding or afraid that people are gonna find us out or like you said, always wearing a mask.
But our strongest desires sometimes win out when we begin to be afraid because our strong desire in that moment is safety and control. Whether it's control over yourself or controlling the situation, those strong desires in the moment are going to win out over that deeper desire of connection. And I think that desire for safety is a reasonable desire that we have.
But just like you were saying, we can miss out on so much. And I can remember I went to a different high school than what my middle school fed into. And so I kind of was starting over from scratch. It took me about two years to get comfortable in high school. And then same thing when I went to college, it took me about two years to get comfortable in my college setting. Well, that's half of my high school experience that I'm missing out on really being fully engaged.
And then half of my college experience where I'm missing out on being fully engaged because my strongest desire was safety. I don't want to come out of my shell or I don't want people to see who I really am unless I know they're going to accept me. And if I was willing to take risks earlier on, I would have been able to integrate earlier on and have more fun experiences and develop additional important important bonds.
But because I'm kind of more on the introverted side, and I'm a little bit more on the pessimistic side, I was a little bit overly cautious in that scenario. And it reminds me so much of this experience. Ruth and I, we had met a new couple in church a couple of months ago. And I remember we started chatting and we ran into them in a couple of different activities outside of church. And we were talking and Ruth starts dropping down some kind of hot button issues and talking about that stuff.
And I remember walking away and I was talking to her and I said, you know, you didn't do anything wrong, but you kind of put it all on the line there by saying some of the stuff that you said. And I remember her just saying, hey, if they're not going to like us, we want to know right now. And you know what? That's totally fair. And this is absolutely something I totally tell my clients when they're dating. I was like, you want to be who you are right up front, right out of the gate.
And if they're not going to like you, you want to know now so that you're not wasting time. And it's totally fair. Yeah, we should be who we are and we should talk about things we want to talk about and we should share our opinions on things and not worry if people don't like us. Because if they don't like us, that's okay. There's 7 billion people on the planet. You can find additional people who will like you and be interested in you for who you are, where you don't have to put that mask on.
Again, you do have to risk that failure. But if you just keep failing, eventually you will be successful. And you don't need to be successful with everybody. If you're successful with a small group of people who then value you who truly know who you are, that's worth all of that uncomfortable experiences you went through to get there. Oh, for sure. And it's exhausting having to keep up this facade and always having to put on a show for people.
It is so nice when you think about the people in your lives where you were fully comfortable. It is so nice to be around them and just be able to be yourself and give them room to be able to be themselves. And granted, in that situation, you need to make sure that you are using tact and having manners. I wasn't trying to just throw in all these big things just to test them and see, well, do you like us or not? Are we on the same page or not?
But it just kind of came up naturally in the conversation.
Conversation and so we were kind of at a crossroads where we could have addressed it and talked about things right then and there because it kind of was leading there or we could have shied away from it and then talked about it later on down the road but in that specific situation I did just kind of put it all on the line knowing that there was a risk to it they could have easily walked away and this situation reminds me a little bit of a quote from Dale Carnegie he
wrote a book called How to Win Friends and Influence People. And the quote goes something like this. There's a reason a man will tell you why he did a thing, and then there's the real reason.
And I think a lot of times even when we're just telling people what our motivation is for something, we are shielding what our real motivation is because we are afraid that either they won't accept our real motivation, so we give them something that we think is more tenable to them, something that's more acceptable to them. But then we are kind of hiding and hoarding this real reason because we We don't want to be vulnerable with it.
We don't want them to have that level of access to what we're thinking or to what we're struggling with. And he goes on to tell the story where he had this customer that was a long-term customer who was buying from him on a very regular basis. And then all of a sudden, he stopped buying from him. And he could not figure out why. He went and talked to the guy. And he was now purchasing from somebody else. And it was an inferior product at a higher level of cost.
And he just couldn't figure out, why did he drop me and go with this other place that's not serving him as well as I was?
And then eventually over the course of time he kind of kept harping on this guy and finally the guy broke and told him the reason why I stopped using you is because I had a special discount and then at one point the special discount just disappeared and went away and the guy was hurt and upset by that and felt like there was a level of trust broken because nobody had told him that the discount was going away and I think it was just
one of Dale's employees who had kind of taken the discount off of the sales. And so there was no malicious intent on Dale's part. But then this guy was hurt. But because he wasn't telling the truth about what his real motivation was, he also couldn't get a resolution to what his issue was. And I think a lot of times we tell people what we think is more acceptable for them to hear. But then because we're doing that, we actually can't resolve what our real issue is.
And for us to have resolution to our real issues, it does take that level of vulnerability. And then by us not doing that, it prevents us from having a deeper, more meaningful relationship. And so once Dale had found that out, he was able to reverse the issue and say, oh, I didn't know that was taken off. That must have been an error. And he went back and he corrected that and he got that client back.
But if we're not being honest about what our real issues are with the people around us, we are not likely to get those problems Right. And so if you apply that to different relationships that you are in, whether they're friendships, romantic relationships, family relationships, there are times when people hurt you. And I think sometimes there is beauty in overlooking offenses and not being easily offended. ended. But I think too often what happens is someone will approach you and say,
hey, did I hurt your feelings? And you're like, no, no, no, it's fine. And you kind of stuff that down. And then maybe that happens again and they don't know about it. And you are experiencing all the emotions that come with it, but you're not allowing them a chance to fix it. And so it kind of builds and then maybe one day they do something and you just end the friendship and they are just so confused.
They didn't understand what happened or they get upset because they're like, you ended our friendship over this small thing. Well, the thing is, it wasn't over that small thing. It was time and time again of things that weren't being addressed because you weren't being vulnerable and you weren't sharing your emotions and sharing your hurts and giving the other person the opportunity to correct things.
So I think sometimes when we kind of brush problems away or we say, oh, no, it's fine, it's fine with our spouse or with our friends, we think we're doing the best thing for the relationship.
Relationship but there's a benefit to being vulnerable and open with your emotions and you don't have to blame the person or make them feel really bad you can say you know that did hurt and you guys can talk through it without sitting there and saying yeah you really did hurt my feelings and you did this and I cannot believe you didn't stand up for me here I've had really good and and difficult conversations with some of my best friends.
And that is so comforting for me because I know that I can trust them. I know that if I say, hey, did I hurt your feelings? And they say no, that they truly are okay. Because we've had other times where I've asked them or they've asked me, did I hurt your feelings? And we say yes, and we talk about it. And we have such a solid relationship relationship because I know that in the past we've worked through things and I know that they're not going to leave just because of this one situation.
Actually, there's a research study, but this is more geared towards client and therapist relationships. But they did this research trying to figure out why some clients and some therapists get a lot more work done. And one of the main components they ended up finding out caused this client and therapist relationship to be so much more fruitful was that in one instance, the client and the therapist had some type of scuffle. They had some type of disagreement, and it was a little bit emotional.
But then the client and the therapist were able to work through and process through that and come to a healthy conclusion. And what then they found afterwards is that both the therapist and the client then trusted each other more, and then they went deeper and worked on stuff more honestly, and then they ended up getting better results. And a lot of times people are terrified about the prospect of having conflict with people. But the thing is, there's two possible outcomes to conflict.
One outcome is if you handle it poorly, it's going to split the relationship a little bit. Maybe not completely, maybe just a little bit. But then the other possibility is that if you handle it well, it will deepen and strengthen the relationship because then it breeds that new deeper level of trust in each other.
And so a lot of times people aren't even willing to try to talk to somebody about something that they disagree about because they assume it's going to go wrong and that things are just going to blow up. But But again, if you don't deal with that issue or that difficulty between each other, if you're not willing to be vulnerable with what you have been hurt by, then you are dooming yourself to slowly just separating over the course of time.
So let's really quickly talk about how does vulnerability show up in our everyday lives? Because we've been kind of talking about it and it doesn't always have to be these deep conversations. But it can show up as a parent where you are vulnerable enough to apologize to your kids or you're vulnerable enough to say that you made a mistake and go back and make things right. It can show up in the workplace where you have a leader who is really trying to have a good workplace culture.
It's easy as a leader to be afraid to show weakness because you think, well, people aren't going to really want to follow me. but there is so much strength in being vulnerable. You still need to be competent in what you're doing and you still need to have a vision but I think that it builds loyalty and encourages more of a collaborative environment.
When you can admit as a leader that you've made a mistake or that you would have handled the situation differently in the future or you're not fully set on and know what your plans are next. And then asking maybe your employees or the people around you to collaborate and jump in and share their ideas because that vulnerability that you don't have all the answers can really add to a positive workplace environment and create that loyalty and improve the morale.
And then vulnerability can show up in your relationship, which we've talked about a lot today. day, being able to apologize, being able to share when you've been hurt, being able to even just share your thoughts on something. It doesn't always have to be this deep emotional experience. But just sharing what you're thinking and being vulnerable.
Maybe it's uncomfortable for you to share your opinion because you're afraid of what people think or the pushback that you might get, but really sitting down and thinking through it and then sharing it with the people that are around you. And then another area that vulnerability can show up is in your own personal development and vulnerability with yourself. We talk to a lot of people in sessions and in life, A lot of times I do see people who are not vulnerable with themselves.
They cannot admit or not even admit, but they can't even see the areas where they're weak in or areas where they need to work on and grow in. And sometimes it truly is this fear of being weak or not seeming like you have it all together. But you can't really be vulnerable with others if you're not taking the time to be vulnerable with yourself and sit down and reflect and think through what are some of the emotions you're experiencing?
What are some of the thoughts you're having? What are some of the relationships that you're struggling with? And so it takes courage to really face your own imperfections openly, but there is so much room for growth when you do that. So as you go about this week, really reflect and look for opportunities where you can incorporate more honest and open interactions with other people, where you can be more vulnerable. And it doesn't have to be an all-in game.
It could be just small disclosures along the way where you're kind of testing the waters. But definitely take this week to challenge yourself to get out of your comfort zone and be a a little more vulnerable. And we'll leave you with this quote from Brene Brown. If you're being vulnerable and it's not uncomfortable, you're doing it wrong. All right, guys, thank you so much for listening. And remember, your mind is a powerful thing. Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of Mr. and Mrs.
Therapy. We hope that you enjoyed today's episode and found it helpful. If so, would you take 30 seconds and share it with a friend. Also, we'd love for you to leave us a review on Apple Podcast. It lights us up to know that this podcast is helping you. If you have any questions or a topic you'd like discussed in future episodes, visit our Facebook group. Just click the link in the description below.
Although we are mental health providers, this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide diagnosis or treatment. If you are struggling with persistent mental health issues, chronic marital issues, or feeling hopeless or suicidal, You are not alone. Help is available. Please seek professional help or call the National Suicide Hotline at 988. Thank you again for joining us on Mr. and Mrs. Therapy. Remember, there's always hope and there's always help. Music.