Steven Hyden on Music Movies

And for those of you, for the uninitiated, the reason I keep talking about rock and roll already is because Steve is the co host of one of my favorite podcasts here on our own network called Rivals. And uh, it's about and I've talked about it a lot on the show, so people kind of know it. But it's about um famous kind of music beefs in the industry from kind of spawned from a book that you wrote called your Favorite Band Is Killing Me? Yeah, yeah, you know.

And thank you for having me on your show, by the way, And I'm thrilled that you like Rivals. It's a lot of fun to do. You know. It's funny because when this show first came up, it wasn't actually my idea to do the show. I Heart Radio approached me that I think they already had the idea that they wanted to do a show about music ravelries, and then they knew I wrote this book, so they thought I'd be a good host for it. Interesting, and I thought like, are we gonna have enough rivalries like to

do a show? And it's amazing, like as we get into this that there's like still tons of good beefs that we haven't even gotten to yet. And we've almost on like fifty episodes, so I mean there's like a lot of conflict in music is Fortunately it's pretty great. And it's funny because I kind of wondered the same thing. I was like, you know, what kind of legs does this have? And then you know, I'm listening basically on a weekly basis. Um, I am a little bit behind

right now. I'm typing it in now so I can

look and see what the most recent episodes are. But I keep thinking of new rivalries myself, and I'm like, now there's there's plenty left to explore from these guys, right And you know the thing too that really opens it up is, you know, just realizing that pretty much like every great band had some sort of like a rivalry within the band, Like you know, there'd be like two songwriters who feuded or they're you know that's the singer and the guitar player had a feud, you know,

so like those, like like intra band rivalries I think are my favorite, Like where it's like two people in the same band who can't stand each other, but they have to make it work, you know. Yeah, it's inter

thing I'm looking now. The most recent when I just listened to was UM and I kind of jumped around at this point was Sting versus the Police, just because I'm such a Police fan, And it's such an interesting thing where these um two guys, I mean three guys that weren't best friends and two guys seemed like they really just didn't like each other. Yeah, and like it just the combination of people doesn't really make any sense on on paper. You know, you have, uh, this drummer

who was in a prog rock band. You have the bass player who was already playing jazz music you know before like the Police was really Stings only rock band that he ever played in. And Andy Summers, who was like almost forty years old, like when the Police are crazy kicked off, and yet um, they come together and it's like, you know, what's the catchier band and the Police? Like, what's an easier band to like than the Police? It just came together and created this very accessible, popular sound,

and you know that's the magic of music. Like why do things like that work? You know who knows? Yeah, totally it. Um. I mean I'm kind of have a little bit of a bit of taste in my mouth over the Police because I went and saw that reunion tour and just you know, I mean, the music was fine, but it just felt so phoned in. At least at the show where I was at. They came in from

clearly separate entrances. You got the idea that they had separate rooms, got on separate in separate limos, and literally only saw each other on stage, and then you could just feel the lack of love on stage and that sucked. Yeah, it's it's crazy. I mean, you say you're from Atlanta. I I co wrote a book with my friend Steve Gorman about one of the great Atlanta bands in my opinion,

the Black Crows. Yeah, I want to talk about that too, And you know, I still love the Black Crows, even though I like worked on this book and it's just about how awful things were in the band, and there's like lots of things that Steve told me that aren't in the book, Like there's things that he couldn't put in there because they were so bad. And yet and

yet I still like the band. So I feel like I have a pretty high tolerance for musicians not liking each other and then that ruining the band for me, because I definitely think that there's like some people who like shouldn't read biographies because I think for some people that there's this idea that like a band is a family or like a gang, and when you find out that in reality, you know, and especially for the bands that are round for a long time, they always end

up disliking each other. And I think that's kind of natural. It's like, you know, thinking it is like a family, or you know, think of like how common is it to make a friend when you're like sixteen, seventeen, eighteen years old and still be friends with them when you're fifty. You know, like that's a pretty unique thing. I mean, I for I have some childhood friends still, but like I don't see them every day. I'm not in a band with them. If I if I did see them

every day, maybe we wouldn't be friends anymore. Uh So just uh, I mean, I think the thing with the show, it's great for music fans, but I also think it's just an interesting show about human relationships, you know, and like totally, and you just see how certain patterns recur.

No matter what kind of band it is. You know, it could be a metal band, it could be a country band or funk band, whatever, people still have the same hang ups and you know, wanting power or feeling like you're underappreciated, underpaid, you know, insecurity, you know, feeling like you're not getting their respect from this person that is supposed to love you, and how it just eats at you for years and then it just blows up, you know, like a decade or two later. Yeah, it's

really sad. I mean because bands, you know, when bands get together in especially when you're in us a lover like we are and like so many people are, it's usually you know the case of like you know, there are always the outliers, like the Pixies who all just answered an ad um, And I assume there will be a Kim Deal versus Black Francis or the Pixies episode

at some point. But that's an outlier. You know. Usually people get together because they are friends, because they have similar sensibilities and they love each other, and to see those relationships fracture is really kind of depressing. Um. I think that. I think if I think the people the you two's and the R. E. M s did it right and that they were like, listen, we're a band and we're all gonna divide this thing up equally and there's never gonna be a question about about payment and

who makes more and who writes more stuff. And from that point, all you have to do is have a uh a chief songwriter who can live with that, because that's a lot of times where it goes wrong is a few years in someone's like, man, I'm doing all the work and these guys like the drummers not even writing ship and so so why am I splitting my thing up? You know a piece? Yeah, that's definitely a

huge thing. I also think that the bands that stick around with all the original members are the bands like where each person knows what their role is and they're and they're okay with that. Like you mentioned you too, and like Larry Mowen Jr. Isn't causing a stink because he wants to be the singer, you know, he's not. He's not like pushing into Yeah, he's not. He's not pushing like to have his songs put to the forefront.

Like he understands that Bono was the singer. The edges like the main music guy and he's the drummer or you know. I I just wrote a book about Radiohead, and like radio Heads another band that like all the same members, the same you know, throughout their entire history. And that's another thing where it's like, yeah, Tom York, he's the songwriter. Johnny Greenwood is the guy who like helps realize his idea Sonically. The guys in the rhythm section are the rhythm section, and O'Brien is like the

texturalist guy. And they all know their roles and they're comfortable with it. And in the bands where that's not true, that's where you have problems, like where the bass player wants to say and he or he wants to be the guy on the album cover, not the singer. All those sort of petty jealous eyes that come to the four, Yeah, for sure. And radio Heads one of my favorite bands. And I do have that book, um, and it's sitting on my nightstand right now, and it is your fault.

I haven't read it. It's called um this Isn't Happening, and it's mainly about the making of Kid a one of the just landmark albums, although it seems like radio Head puts out nothing but landmark albums. Moonshape Pool is one of my favorites. Um, and that's the most recent. But I got into the Bob Spitz Beatles book on your recommendation from the show, and that you know, the

breadth of that book. Uh, it has been a bit of a slog, a fund slog, but it's long as hell, and so that why Radiohead is still sitting on my nightstand. But that's next up for me. Well, it's crazy because um, I just picked up I don't know if you're familiar with this, Like I think his name is Mark Leuisan. He's like a big Beatles historian and he's working on like just a mammoth Beetles book that's gonna be three volumes and he just he put out the first volume.

I think it was like six years ago and that's like nine pages and it's just about the Beatles up until like nineteen three, you know, so it's almost like, um, like Mark Carrow, he does those Lyndon Johnson biographies, He's got it's the same thing there. So I I just bought that. I haven't started reading that yet. But if you think the Spitz book is long, you know this this book is longer than that. And it's just you know there, you know, childhood and Hamburg gears and stuff.

It's not even there sort of prime yet. But I'm excited to get into that. I mean the Beatles story, you know. I I've seen so many documentaries about them. I've read so many books. I never get sick of that story. And it has all the elements that we were just talking about, where you have these friends from childhood, they come up, they become famous, and then you know, all these different power dynamics come into play where people are fighting for power in the band and fighting for recognition.

You have John versus Paul, you know, they're sort of competition going on. And then you have George Harrison, this great songwriter who was treated like the little brother in the band. They never and we we did an episode on that. They never Lennon McCartney never reached out to George Harrison to say, hey, why don't why don't we write songs together? It was it was like, no, you're like the little brother. You know, you're not gonna be

as good as good as us ever. And you can just see, like when Harrison finally got out of the band, he puts out all Things Must Pass. It's like enormous record, triple album, and you just felt like, no one's gonna tell me, no, I'm gonna put everything on this record. It was a bit of a middle finger to the other guys. It was like, all right, I'm gonna outdo both of you. Um, you know, I mean I've listened to almost every episode up until like a month ago

when uh, I got distracted. But the Tweenie j far Our episode is one of my favorites. The band is one of my favorite all time groups. So the Robbie Robertson levin Helm story was just, uh that that's a tough one personally because of the finances of of Levan later on in his life, and really kind of all the guys, you know, we're you know, the band is one of the sadder stories and music I think of them.

You know, without Robbie playing, he's kind of like, you know, washed up dive bars almost, which is just crazy to think about. Um, I'm glad he had a Levin had a nice career resurgence at the end with those couple of great albums. But um, I recently watched the documentary, Uh what was it called Brothers? Uh, Once We're Brothers. Yeah, Once We're Brothers, which you know it's Robbie Robertson show, so I kind of knew what to expect. I loved

all the archival footage. Um, but you know I was I think I had the understanding that they had a real deathbed reconciliation and not. He went in there to an unconscious Levon Helman kind of held his hand, so that really kind of bursted my bubble a little bit. Yeah, I mean, you know, the thing with that conflict between Levin and Robbie, I think for the longest time, like I've decided with Levin. I mean, I love Levan so much. I love him in the band, have to great drummer,

incredible singer. Um, and you know, Robbie Robertson's just like a less sympathetic character in a lot of ways, although I think lately I've come to have more equal empathy, just because I feel like, you know, from from Robertson's perspective, you know, he was the band with these like three genius singers and musicians, you know, Helm Danko and Richard Manuel, but they were all also like drug addicts and irresponsible.

I'm sure, like, especially after they became popular, you know, it was hard to wrangle those guys get him into the studio. Robertson was the responsible one, you know. I think he was like writing the songs, he was putting things together. I can see from his perspective how that would have just been maddening to deal with. And maybe at some point you're just like, I gotta get out of here. I could. I'll go to Hollywood and make

movies with Martin Scorsese and that'll be great. But yeah, that movie once we're brothers, it really does leave like a salur taste in your mouth, because you know, yeah, Robbie Robertson, you ever right to get your viewpoint out there, but yeah, a long time to do that, and he didn't do it until the other guys were dead right and they can't respond, And it just seemed a little cheap, um and it actually I think made up look worse

to do that. I think a lot of people, a lot of band fans did not really respond positively to that movie. It seemed like a pretty kind of transparent, you know, sort of uh, you know, apology. It's a way to like prop Robbie up basically and make the other guys look as good. And um, I think if you would have been a little more honest and uh to leave on he he would have came out looking better and also made his case. But you know, I

don't know, that's such a complicated thing. I know. And always he always strikes me as a guy that kind of likes to hear himself talk. Um is evidence from you know, the last Waltz in this documentary and his sort of you know, shoe polished black hair at his age and the Hollywood thing. I don't him, man, it's it's but he's one of my favorite guitar players of all times. Well, and that's the thing, like I I had the chance, Look, I've I've taken shots at Robbie

Robertson like in print like many times. But I I interviewed him, um, like two or three years ago, and um he was a great interview and you know, whatever you want to say about him. He played on the nineteen sixty six Dylan tour blazing lead guitar, like some of the greatest lead guitar ever. He was there with the Basement tapes. I mean, this guy has been a part of like some of the greatest music ever made.

So yeah, he's arrogant and uh, kind of a glory hog, I think, but his resume is pretty great, you know. So it's like, what are you what are you gonna do? What's like? What's it like when you're interviewing I mean, you're a music journalist first and foremost, and that's where you're career has has led you to podcasting secondary in a secondary way. But when you're interviewing some of these people that are your idols or just just these huge superstars, what uh what's that like? How do you how do

you keep it chill? Well? I mean, you know, interviewing like a famous person. To me, like, isn't that big of a deal? You know, like it is what it is it's part of because like they're just people a lot of times too, it's like they're not famous for anything extraordinary necessarily. It's just like they're just famous. But if it is someone like Robbie Robertson or like I interviewed Robert Plant once, or like or like a Paul Simon, that that is like I'll be of like nerves in

the pit of my stomach starting the day before. These are the rare, rare humans in history, yeah exactly where like, yeah, they're human beings, but there built up so much certainly in my mind, be honest, especially someone like Robert Plant, like where you know, I started listening to led Zeppelin when I was like eleven or twelve years old and reading Hammer of the Gods, you know, by Stephen Davis, and you know, and I I've said this before, but you know, like I'm not a comic book guy, but

like rock stars of the sixties and seventies, like they're my Marvel heroes, Like that's my Robert Plant is my Batman, you know, Robbie Robertson is like my you know, whoever Green Lantern or whatever. I can't even think a comic book characters I think Robert Plant would be more of a thor if you know, I was going to get into the Norse mythology right right, But you know, just people that are so built up in my mind that

it's just it's just incredible to talk to them. And then you talk to them, and like Robert Plant was really nice and like thoughtful, and he's just a music fan at heart. So when I was interviewing him, that was something that I felt like I could I could connect with him, you know, like we were talking about um Sandy Denny singing on the Battle of Evermore Unlet's

up on four. So then we started talking about like Fairport Convention and like English folk of like the late sixties and early seventies, because I like that kind of stuff and and obviously he's a huge fan of that, so you know, we could connect just as music fans

is what you're looking for, I think. So, I mean, I think, you know, like when you interview someone like that who's been interviewed so many times, you know, you don't want to ask just the standard questions that they've been ask a million times because you know, well, for one thing, everyone's heard that before, so it's not interesting but also like the the person you're talking to, they're not going to give you good answers that they're just gonna feel like, well, I can go on autopilot because

this is just like another dumb journalist, you know, out of millions that I've talked to you in my life. But I think if you can show that you know you care about this stuff as much as they do, I think it's a signal to them that oh, Okay, I can loosen up because this person's on the right level and we can actually have a real conversation. And at think that's when doors get opened and you actually end up maybe discovering something new, uh you know that

hasn't been rehashed you know a million times. I love the story when you have felt so bad for you man, when you were recounting your Liam Gallagher interview and and you know you don't want to be the millionth guy

to ask him about an Oasis reunion. But it's almost like you kind of have to where you're being negligent, and it seems sounds like you didn't press it, but it was all just b D, I mate, b D I mate, Well, yeah, this was we wanted to talk about Yeah, this was right after Oasis broke up and he yeah, he started this new band called b d I, and um, it was an interesting time in his career because I think he's changed quite a bit since then.

He used to be much more sort of, um like churlish with the media, and um, now like you see interviews with him, and he's like super charming and and money and and much more loquacious. And I don't I don't know if that was just something you know, he just got older and gotten a better part of it, or maybe there might have been like substance abuse issues too.

I wonder if if maybe he was just more intoxicated when I talked to him, because he because like you see him now and like, you know, his eyes looked clearer and he looks more alert. So I I do think that's maybe part of it. But yeah, when I talked to him, you know, and I said this, I think I said on the on the show, I asked twenty four questions in fifteen minutes because it was all just like one sentence answers. But I'm such an Oasis

fan that I actually was. I was digging that, Like it was kind of uncomfortable but like it's kind of a classic Gallagher move. Yeah, I was kind of I was kind of loving it just because it's like, I love Liam Gallagher. I love his attitude, and so to be on the their end of it, it was kind of a dream come true. Uh, to be abused by Liam Gallagher a little bit. I'm also a big fan of them, the Van Halen episodes and um My, uh,

I am now kind of email friends with Aaron Hagar. Uh, Sammy's son, because he's a fan of movie crushing stuff you should know, and got in touch with us a while back, and uh now I can just like email him about anything. Anytime I have some little question or whatever, I can email him and he'll be like, yeah, man, whatever, I'll tell you anything. I'm like, I'll go ask my dad right now, Sammy says, Hi, he thinks it's so cool,

and it's just like Sammy, you know. I'm obviously a big David Lee Roth Van Halen guy because I was that was the original lineup when I was a kid. But I loved both. I loved Van Hagar and I think Sammy Hagar is one of the more kind of cool, endearing guys in rock history. He just he just seems like a good guy. And Aaron's like, man, he's he's great. He's a great dad and always was. Yeah. I interviewed Sammy Um maybe ten years ago when he put out his memoir Read, which I think I said this in

the episode. I think that's like one of the underrated rock memoirs. I don't hear that like mentioned when people talk about great rock books. But it's like a pretty entertaining Yeah, he's like, I mean, he his personality comes across in the book pretty clearly, and I mean there's like a lot of trash talking about Eddie van Halen, so like there's that aspect of the book just talking about basically how messed up Eddie van Halen was during that period. But like even the stuff like before he

joins the band, it's pretty fun. And uh, I mean he has the whole Aliens thing, like how he talks about how he had an alien encounter when he was twenty years older. So uh so that's pretty wild. Yeah. When I interviewed him, Um, you know, we talked for a long time. It was like over an hour, and it was one of those things like where I think we went over our time that we were allotted by the publicists. But he was just like, you know, just whatever you have, just keep asking me questions. You know,

I'll go as long as you want. I think that's just his attitude. He seems like a pretty you know, like man of the people type, you know, so I appreciate that about him. Did you grow up in Minneapolis, No, I'm from Wisconsin original, Okay, I'm I grew up in a town called Appleton, which is not far from Green Bay. It's about a half hour south of Green Bay. So still a big Packers fan, even though I'm Minnesota now. But yeah, I've lived here for five years, okay, and

I love it. I love it here, even though we're now entering our winter hell here, although it still wasn't too bad here, I have to say, uh, but yeah, Januarine February are always for me. But after that it's great. And i'd like seasons too. I'm pro season. Yeah. Yeah, I gotta have a good friend there and stuff you should know always does really well. They're on tours. It's a great um. I think it's a great town for artistic, very literate sort of cultured people and very you know,

it's it's a great rock and roll town. Everyone from the Replacements to Whosker Doo and Soul Asylum and obviously Prince. It's just got a great rock and roll tradition. Uh. This indie band, Tapes and Tapes is one of my favorite indie bands of all time. And they're I've gotten to know those guys actually by touring in. Invite him in to the show and stuff, and just a cool,

cool town. Hold Steady obviously, yeah yeah, although they came together in Brooklyn, Okay, but but all there, but Craig Fenn lived to it for a long time and all of his songs are set here. So they're really like the Bruce Springsteen of Minneapolis. Like how you listen to Springsteen songs and he's name checking specific towns and bridges and all that stuff, and Hold Steady songs He'll like he talks about like one sixty nine and like that's literally like half a mouth from my house, you know.

So so that's a cool thing about listening to hold Steady songs if you happen to be you know from this. Yeah, when did you start writing about music and think that that was a career path for you? Well, I started when I was fourteen. Really, I mean I wrote for my junior high paper. The first record reviews I ever wrote were of Automatic for the People by rig and my Favorites and Dirt by Alison Chains. Those were the first favorites. I gave Automatic for the People and A

and I gave Dirt a B plus. And I should have given that an A too. That's an I think, my fourteen year old self, I have to write him an angry letter about that. Um. And then yeah, I started writing UM for my like daily local newspaper. They had a teen page uh then that I started writing four when I was fifteen and so I so I was getting paid for that. I was getting like ten bucks, I think a column. So I don't know, I just always I just had a programmed in me, I think

to be a music critic. You know. I just started doing it like pretty early, and I've been really writing ever since. You know, I did it throughout high school. I wrote for my college paper. Um, you know, I worked. I actually got hired by the same paper that I wrote for as a teenager. That was my first job out of college. So I worked for a daily newspaper.

Work for all weeklies. You know, I kind of did a little bit of everything, and that's what's been cool about doing podcasts because you know, I love doing podcasts. It's it's a lot of fun, and it's to me, it's just like the next iteration of different media that I've worked in, you know, because like daily newspapers, they still exist, but they're obviously on the decline. All weeklies

are almost gone at this point. You know, I'm working in digital media, but that's always pretty boatle, so you know, you just have to be able to roll with the punches. I guess I'll be doing TikTok reviews here pretty soon. You know. It seems like I just saw a story and Rolling Stone about how the future of music journalism is TikTok. So good lord, So we'll see about that.

But yeah, I've I've always liked it. You know. It just came from a very simple impulse of I love writing and I love music, so how can I combine this? And I was able to pull it off. So it's amazing. I feel really fortunate for that. What book do you want to write next? Can you talk about that or what ideas are brewing? Well? I I just well, I I have an agreement to write a book. I haven't officially signed the contract yet. Um so I'm starting work

on something right now that I won't say yet. But if you like, if you like my other books, I think you'll like this one. It's it's in a similar vein. You know, I'm not going off and doing a book about right side Fred or something. You know, it's definitely and although that would be cool, I would definitely do a Bright Said Fred book if I could sell that,

but yeah, I don't know about that. Yeah, but yeah, so i'll be I'm just about to start really writing that and so that will be out in um so, yeah, that that's when we're going now. And and there's always like different projects I have kind of percolating that I want to do. It's just about whether you can actually pull them off get someone to buy it. But I've been pretty lucky with that too, so hopefully they will continue.

Uh So, a couple of questions about the your your youth, Um, what was your first and this is not a hey, I gotta give this guy a cool answer? What was your first real music love? And I'll just go ahead on a level set and say legit mine was Barry Manilow. Oh yeah, well he's got some good tunes. I mean, you know, I was born in the nineteen seventy seven, so like it was natural for me, like around five or six to really love Thriller. Like I loved Thriller

because everyone loved Thriller. So I'll say that, although I feel like that almost doesn't count because it was like so ubiquitous at that time. So I remember, like the first rock band I loved was Huey Lewis in the news Sports I had Sports good album. I had that, and then four I had that on cassette. Well and actually, um got to spend time with Huey Lewis too, I did. I wrote a profile of him, and which was pretty wild too, you know, because he was a huge deal

for me. Yeah, because you know, it's it's wild to think of a band like that being pop stars now because it's like a guy, like a guy who looks like Huey Lewis, Like just imagine him being a pop star. It's so strange. But like you know, like when I was a little kid, you know, in the mid eighties, they had Sports uh you know, they had the Back to the Future song and that was bigger than that. And they had four you know, which had hip to be square on it, and a bunch of other hits.

So like from like eight three, eight, six, eighty seven. I mean they were like as big as any band really. Um. So yeah, Huey lewis in the news. They taught me about the harder rock and roll and I'm grateful for such great songs. Yeah, I have to say that, like you know, I mean a joke about that, but like I think I did learn from the harder rock and roll that like Cleveland is an important city in history of rock music because of Alec Freed and all that stuff.

And like you know, they says the harder rock and rolls in Cleveland is the lyric from that song. So Huey lewis bit of a music historian there and definitely totally taught me something that my wise family is from Akron. They all live here now in Atlanta, but um and followed her here. But today I went to Cleveland and Akron a bunch over the years and went to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, which is you know, I want to go back. It's just an amazing place

to visit. And um, she went to My wife went to Firestone High, home of Chrissy Hynd and the Black Keys and Devo and I think there was one more. All went to Firestone High, which is a pretty incredible you know, from a single high school, pretty incredible lineage. Yeah. Well, in Ohio in general, tons of great bands. Maybe my favorite band of all time, Guided by Voices from Dayton, Ohio,

like a huge Guided by Voices fan. And then you have the National I mean they started like those guys are from Cincinnati was another band that kind of like I think they came together in Brooklyn. But James Gang, James Gang. Absolutely, Yeah, Ohio great. And you know, I always I love the way the flag for Midwestern rock bands, you know, like I waved the flag for the Midwest in general. But yeah, I always love to see Midwest stepping up doing something. I mean, I'm from Wisconsin. There's

not like a ton of great bands really, uh from Wisconsin. Unfortunately, we have like the Violent Fems and the Bowden's of course, Bunny Bear is the big one now, which is and I went to school in Eau Claire, which is where yeah, Justin is from. So he actually wrote a song is a song on the second Bunny Bear record called Towers, which is about one of the dorms on u W Clare campus called there's Towers North and Towers South. And I lived in Towers North my freshman year, so so

there's a song about your college dorm. I know. See, It's like, look, when you live in the Midwest, you have to like grasp onto these things. It's not like when you live in New York and there's like a million New York songs, you know, like every lou Read song you can just write to and be like, oh, yeah, it's about my town. R M never wrote a song about Red Hall, So I'm a little disappointed. Um, Athens,

I love. Athens is a great town, you know. I was just there last weekend for the first time in a while, and uh my daughter was at my mom's house spending a night and my wife had an event all day, and I was like, you know what, I haven't been to Athens and forever. I have a day to myself and I went and just uh soaked it

all in again. You know. It was something, you know, it was like the best six years of my life, of my youth, let's say, and the R. E. M. Steeple is still there from the church where they played their first gig. I've seen that. Yeah, it's still right there. It's cool. You can also and they also have like those tower things that are on the back cover of Murmur. Yeah, the train trestle, the train trestle. Yeah, yeah, that's it. Yeah, you can go see the R. D. S is still there.

Automatic for the people was his local soul food restaurant, and all that stuff is within like, you know, a half a mile of a couple of places that I lived and Stipe still loans. Uh. I think he owns three houses now, which is I think the rich guy move, which is you buy your house and then eventually you buy the neighboring house, and then eventually you buy the other side neighboring house, just to sort of sock yourself

in a little bit. But um, I know he lives in New York, but you know he's still there and you could go on any given night and bump into two Stipe still uh, even though he spends most of his time in New York. And I think that's one of the charming things about that band is that they still have you know, Bill Berry still lives just outside Athens on his farm. Berry is the one member of R E M. I haven't interviewed. I'd love to interview

Bill Berry. I remember when I interviewed Michael Stipe. That was another one where I had not in my stomach

the night before. But because us, you know, still am such a huge R e M. Fan, And I had also heard that he was like a bit standoffish in interviews, could be difficult, and he couldn't have been warmer and nicer and like and more open like we were talking about all these different I mean, it was just about R. E. M Our interview and he uh, you know, it was very frank about like what he thought the band did well and what you know he thought they didn't do well,

and very matter of fact and you know, had a great sense of humor and um, yeah, all those guys. They are one of the only bands that, like, when they walked away, you felt like, Okay, they're done, because they just seemed like guys said, we feel like, Okay, we did what we wanted to do and now we want to be normal. We want to have normal lives, and they don't seem to have, you know, the ego that like other bands of that level would have like we're eventually you want to be in front of fifty

people again. And you know, I've seen Peter Buck play with so many different bands and he just loves it.

And he'll play with Alejandro Escoveto. He'll like, he'll put out a record on like well that I think that label Mississippi Records, like out in Oregon, where it's like you can only buy it on vinyl and it's like, you know, two thousand copies pressed or whatever, and he's, you know, and he's just the guy who just he's like, you know, got tens of millions of dollars, I'm sure, and he's just like I don't need to be a superstar anymore. I can just do whatever I want to do,

and I just want to play music. And I can't think of like another band that was like that huge where the members just did that walked away, And I really think I don't think they'll ever get back together. I think you're in a real way, I think they could do. I could see them getting back together and playing a show at the forty on and that's the only time they get back together. But in terms of doing like a real tour or like an album or something.

I'm sure that won't happen. Yeah, The forty White Man, many many nights there that Uh. One of my I guess my favorite um sort of college rock band of all time is Pavement. And I saw Pavement and on that first tour for Slanted, uh without even knowing who they were. It was just there's a great uh all weekly They're called The Flagpole Magazine, and I, uh, I thought, you're about to whip out the flagpole. You just reach

for something, um the Flagpole. You know, it was in Athens in the early nineties, and you would you would just read up like who's playing the fort for four dollars on a Wednesday? And like let's just take a flyer and go. And Pavement had an interesting write up and I was like, let's go check these guys out. And from that night on, I was like, these are my guys, and they have remained my guys ever since then.

It was sort of a ship show of a concert. Uh. The you know, Gary the drummer at the time, just destroyed his drum set and Steve Malcolmus ended up passed out on the stage with like cigarettes falling out of his breast pocket and he came back and apologized, and I was like, man, these guys are the ship there, my dudes, that's awesome. I got to see um drive by truckers there. That's the only like because I was in town to do a story on them, and they

do this thing. Um, I mean they didn't do it this year obviously, but like they they do this thing in the winter where they play like a three show stand at the forty. So I was at one of those shows and that was definitely like pretty cool to be at the forty watch just having like grown up a huge r M fan and knowing about forty what it's just from just from reading about them. Yeah, and

I love Athens too. It reminds me of Madison, Wisconsin, which which is you know, like another sort of like liberal college town in the middle of like just conservative country. It's like a little oasis, you know. Um yeah, like Austin too, Yeah exactly. I mean Austin is a bigger city, but um yeah, for sure. So it felt very comfortable when I was there. I felt like, oh, I haven't been here before, but I feel like I have. Yeah,

that's cool stuff. You should know. Did Um, sort of an off the beaten path live show in Lawrence, Kansas one time, and I got those Athens vibes a big time. When I was in Lawrence, I was like, Man, this this is this town is the ship. I love what it's about. Yeah, I haven't been there, but I've heard it's awesome. Uh. And then another sort of childhood music question before we move on to what we're gonna be talking about, which is music movies. What was your first concert?

Like what you know you consider your first real concert? I like, my parents dragged me to Kenney Rogers and Bobby Goldsboro when I was a kid, but like my first show that I wanted to go to and paid for it was Cheap trick In. Oh wow, that's another great Midwestern band. Yeah, one of them. I've seen them probably nine or ten times, including a Weird forty And I'm not weird. It was great. It was kind of weird that they played there. Uh, this epic forty watch

show like fifteen years ago. But um, what was your first real concert? Um? Well, like in terms of like a show that I was taken to, um, like by my by my dad. It was when I was nine. I saw the Beach Boys at the Marcus sampath Theater in Milwaukee was the first show at the Marcus Sampatheater, which is where, uh where Summer Fest takes place in Milwaukee for those who know what Summer Fest is. Um. And that would have been like six and I the

Kokomo years. It was right before Kokomo, so so you know, it was just like the greatest hitset And I was so young, you know, I didn't really even know who the Beach Boys were, although like when they started playing, I knew a lot of their songs already from Oldie's Radio. And I had a great time. I loved it. I'm trying to I wish I knew if Brian Wilson was there, because it's possible that he might have been at that show, but I don't know if he was or not. But

certainly Carl Wilson was still with them. Dennis Wilson had died, you know, three years before that. Uh So it was pretty cool, Like and I love the Beach Boys, so it was pretty great. Another great Rivals episode, by the way, my loved one. Yeah, totallyhole um, Like in terms of like, you know, a show that I paid for myself. Like one of the first big ones was I saw the Rolling Stones on the Voodoo Lounge tour at Camp Randall Stadium in Madison, and I was, I think literally in

the last row. And you know, I was already as I was already a big classic rock fan when I was sixteen, and I remember feeling like a little snarky about out, like, oh, is this gonna be any good? You know, because at that time, the Stones seemed super old, you know, and I thought they're gonna they're gonna retire. Well, Mick Jagger was fifty on that and you know at that time, there weren't a lot of fifty year old

rock stars in ninety four. You know. Now you know we're used to I mean, Bob Dylan's going to be eighty uh next year, so that's been normalized. But I remember thinking like, I got to see the Stones on this tour because they're gonna probably retire after this, you know. And that was like twenty six years ago. But they came out and I forget what they played first, but

it was awesome. It was unbelievable, and I and even in the stadium, like the magnetism of McK and Keith especially was just it was intoxicating, like I was just I was in heaven during that show. I remember they played all down the Line from Exile on Main Street and I loved the Exile and I wasn't expecting them to play that um, so I was pretty excited. And they and Keith sang three songs I think, including Memory Hotel from Black and Blue, which is you know, not

a hit, pretty big, deep cut. Any Keith sung songs I was going nuts for because I loved Keith Richards was one of the first like rock stars I really came to love and I still love Keith Um, but at that time especially I just worshiped Keith Richards, So that was that was pretty great. So yeah, so this so probably The Stones would be like one of the first like kind of like shows I paid to go see.

And that was a big deal too, because I had to get permission to like drive it down that was that was like a two hour drive and uh so yeah that was great. That was so much fun. They're remarkably a band I haven't seen I have. I mean, I've been going to concerts, like I said, since I was twelve years old, and like big, big, shows. You know, when I was little, I was going to the to the Omni in Atlanta, you know, our our local you know basketball arena. And obviously once college kicked in, I

was going to like smaller shows along with big shows. Still, but I have some big holes, like I've never seen the Stones. I never got to see The Who And I had a chance to see The Who in the eighties when it was still you know, pretty vital and John and Whistle was still with them. I never I've never seen I never got to see Pink Floyd, I never saw that. I didn't go to that Plant Page tour. Um, I never saw Bowie like some of my idols. I'm just kicking myself for not going to these shows, you know.

And I guess part of it was finances back then, like not being able to afford to go to all the shows. Um, I've got a great concert list, but those like those are some pretty big holes to have not seen the Stones and with so many opportunities, and I really regret that. Well, and hopefully you'll still have

a chance. I mean, I mean, I was gonna see them this year again, like they were gonna you know, they were going on to her and I there was a month in May where I was going to see the Stones, Guns n Roses and Ween and I was like, this is gonna be great. And then and I had that planned in like February or whatever, and then you know, uh,

we all know what happened next. I mean, but like someone like Bowie for instance, Like I've never seen Bowie either, and it's just like you know that's gone forever, you know, like you we're never gonna get a chance to see that, which is a real bummer. Or um. I never saw

Pink Floyd either. I've seen Roger Waters, which was pretty great, Like his band is so good and he actually he has this guitar player when I saw him named Jonathan Wilson, who's a great singer songwriter in his own right and great producer, like he's produced all the Father John Misty records and like Dogs and some other bands like that.

But he was the guitar player in Roger Waters band and he would sing the David Gilmour parts two and it was so perfect and like the guitar solos that he was playing, we're like note for note from the record, which I'm a little mixed on. But Also, those solos are amazing, so I was to hear him. I was kind of excited to sit there, you know, I was. I was in an arena with an amazing light show, listening to like the guitar solo from Comfortably Numb, you know,

pend David Gilmore. Yeah, it was like it was pretty cool, Like I was. It's like you can be cynical about these things and be like, oh, it's not the real band or you know, blah blah blah. When you're in that seat, that plastic seat and the light shows going and that music is playing. I'm sorry, but like my I'm I can be a cynical rock critic, but my

cynicism evaporates. It's like I don't I'm not that powerful of a cynic It's like this, this stuff is working for me, like Gangbusters, you know, like there's a reason why this is so popular, Like it works. You know. Well, I had tickets for the Roger Waters tour this summer. Really good seats happened. I had tickets for Guns and

Roses didn't happen. Um. I have been on a on a mission now to like to just not miss these big shows, especially if it's an older artist like I wouldn't saw that Elton John tour three times, uh and the Fleetwood Mac both the with Lindsay and then with with Campbell and Neil Finn and that was great. Um, so I try not to miss anything now that I can actually afford to go to concerts and get like

decent seats. Finally in my life, I saw Petty you know, from like the fifth row on that last tour, and uh,

I think the two previous tours as well. So I'm not and certainly after the pandemic is over, like no one should be snoozing on live tours well again, and that's why, you know, part of me is like, are people are going to be afraid to go to shows because there's such a you know, I know like when I went to shows, I never thought about germs, you know, I never thought about like someone copying Ted Rose ahead of me and Nickiel, like, oh I'm in danger now.

But then there's the thing you're talking about where people are so primed you know, take a minute. I mean, like, you know, I managed to see a couple of things in early a couple of live shows, but this is easily the least amount of music I've seen since I was what like sixteen fifteen, sixteen years old. It's been crazy and that's true for everyone obviously. Um, but yeah,

it's such a it's really weird. I mean, there's so many things that we've lost that I try not to dwell at it too much because it can really drag you down. Um, but yeah, it's crazy. But yeah, hopefully, yeah, hopefully we're on the verge of coming back and it will be so fun. Yeah. Absolutely, Well, all right, my friend,

let us uh segue here into music movies. And what I did everyone, as I emailed Steven, was just like, listen, let's just not him ourselves in make a list of your favorite five music movies that can be concert movies, can be documentaries, can be biopics, that can be whatever. And you were fully allowed to cheat like crazy, because I'm looking at my top five list and it has probably thirteen movies and then another twelve honorable mentions. So

let's just start talking about these. Um, I'll go ahead and to start it off. And these are not for me. They're not ranked I think you ranked yours, but on my list of top five, I kind of tried to categorize it I did concert movies, and my two favorite concert movies are The Last Waltz and Stopped Making Sense a little on the nose, but that's the truth. You

can't go wrong with those, yeah. I for my list, I had sort of a subcategory where I was like, I'm not going to put these on my list because I feel like people know these movies or I feel like Charles is probably going to mention them, and those were two that I but I But I also wanted to make sure I shouted them out because they're great.

Like I'm not saying they're not great. I think I'm not being like a snob here and being like, oh, yeah, the Last Waltz isn't great or Stop making Sense as great, Like they're they're great. But I also want to recommend some movies that maybe people haven't seen that I think are really great. But yet those two, if you haven't seen them, you have to see them. They're like the gold standard I think for concert films. They really are,

and I think in sort of two different ways. In in one similar way, um, the Last Waltz has all that other uh, all that other great footage. Stop making Sense does not do that. But I think the things they have in common, which it was pretty genius from Scorsese and and Jonathan Demi was the immediacy of the film work. And I think part of that is due to the fact that just back then they didn't have you know, fifty ft techno cranes, Like the way they

shoot concerts now is so different. Back then it was it was people on stage with the camera largely. You know, you had one setup wide for your wide shot. But so what's so great about both of those is just the immediacy, and especially Stop Making Sense. I mean, you don't even see the audience. Really, it's this weird thing that feels like it's in this vacuum where you're kind of on stage with this avant garde rock band. Um The Last Walls feels like a bit more of a party.

But they both work for those reasons. I think. Yeah, I think Stop Making Sense is the greatest sort of visceral concert movie. Like it it's the concert movie that comes closest to actually feeling like a show, where like I've been to screenings of Stop Making Sense and people will get up and dance like during the show, and I've never seen that for other concert films. The Last Waltz to me, and I think you make a great

point about how that was shot. I mean, if you if you look at a film like Woodstock or Gimme Shelter, like the earliest you know, like those late sixties kind of like the early great concert films, it's more like handheld stuff. It feels like a little grittier, which I love that about those movies. But there's a grandness to

the Last Waltz. It's like it's like gone with the wind of concert movies, Like it just looks so great and the compositions of it are are so wonderful, and there's just like a sweep to it that I think it was really unique to concert movies at that time. And the fact too that you just have these like towering figures of rock history all assembled at once. You have like Muddy Waters on stage, you know, like how amazing is that? And then you've got like Ben Morrison

in the purple suit. You've got Bob Dylan with like looking like a rabbi, you know exactly, Neil Young with the booger knows which someone pointed this out to me recently. If you look at the shirt that Neil Young is wearing which I've never noticed this, but like if you because you can see a couple of times it's like a drawing of two people doing a sixty nine? Is it really? Yeah, it's like, what the hell, Neil Young,

what are you thinking? But it's funny. Another great interviews like just uh, you know, Robbie of course is blow beating about everything, but you know, the best interviews You're going to see a Richard manual for sure, even though it was sad and he was just so fucked up um and Levan was he had a very obviously cynical outlook about the whole project, but is still some pretty

great interview footage of him. Yeah, Like you read Levan's book, This Wheels on Fire, and he just trash He trashes the last Waltz, like he hates the movie, and he talks about like how miserable he was being interviewed. But then like you watched the movie and he's like it

doesn't seem like it. He's super charming. He's telling that story about like being in Arkansas and like how yeah, late at night, you know, girls just start shaking it and like the band starts playing a little you know, he's tell these great stories and it's so damn charming,

but like apparently he hated the whole experience. I mean, I mean, I think he just hated being taken off the road and feeling that Robbie Robinson sort of decided that, you know, unilaterally, and he just associates that with the movie. Now maybe I don't know, but well, in the whole Hollywood thing, which he was just you know, yeah, I think at that point there was just Robbie animosity overall. Yeah,

which is too bad. You know, I wish um because I do think some of his animosity I think is misplaced. And you know, I I do think that, Like it's I don't know how much we want to get into the weeds with that. We have to talk about these other movies, but I won't even get into that. Just listen to our episode. But but I'll just say, like I wish those two guys could have had a real reconciliation and that, like you said, where it's like Levan was unconscious usin and Robbie just kind of showed up

at the end. All right, what's your first entry? Um? So I'm gonna go. So I just want to say, like, Okay, so I mentioned that I had this list of movies that aren't on my list just because I felt like they're like the Cannon music movies. But I but I love all these movies, but I just wanted to maybe pick other movies that maybe people haven't seen, so like,

like those are to be the honorable mentions. Yeah, this so like last Waltz stopped making sense, I'd gimme Shelter on their The Rolling Stones movie and Don't Look Back the Bob Dylan movie from nineteen seven. Can that not be in there? Exactly? These honestly like my honorable mentions, like they could be my top five. But again easily, I was hoping I could maybe make some recommend I feel like people have seen these movies, so like I wanted to recommend some things people I haven't seen. Maybe.

But the other one was A Hard Day's Night by the Beatles. The Beatles movie, it's one of the most I mean, that's like one of my favorite movies period of time, just super charming comedy. Aside from the music. Music is obviously wonderful, but the comedy in that movie is so great, and so many quotable lines like all the other actors, like the guy who plays the grandpa. That's great. Uh so many wonderful parts of that movie.

So those were the movies on my honorable mentions, my number five movie, and I have a bunch of parent the articles on this too. This is sort of like my comedy category. Um. And so obviously you have like this is spinal Tap, you have Pop Star Never Stopped Popping. You have the Great Movie. I don't know if you've seen this. All you need is Cash, the Ruttles movie that Eric Idle did in the Beatles Parity. Uh. I

love all those movies. Those are all basically like fake documentaries, you know, so so sort of doing a parody of like the documentary genre. The movie that actually put on my list at number five is a parody of music biopics. And I feel like, after this movie was made, I'm shocked that music biopics continue to be a thing, because this movie nails biopics so perfectly. Like I watched it again last night, Like you can't watch this movie and

then watch Bohemian Rhapsody and take it seriously. I mean, BEHEMI reps. He is kind of ridiculous anyway, But Anyway, the movie is Walk Hard The Dewey Box Star. Sorry, Um, it's so perfect, like just nailing the sort of like awkwardness of biopics. The you know, the scene I was laughing the hardest. I always have a different scene that

I laughed hard at. But like the scene early in the movie where they show young Dewey Cox in this grocery store and he comes across these two blues guys and then and then he takes the guitar and he starts he learns guitar instantly, and then he starts singing in this like blues sky boys. It's so perfect. It's so perfect for these things. And like how there's like a scene a little bit later where he's like, I'm

gonna walk Hard. I'm going you like how you have to like repeat the title of like a song like in the dialogue, which is something that happens all the time. And Walk the Line that Johnny Cash movie. I mean they really nail the Johnny Cash movie pretty bad and Walk Hard. But um, and Walk the Line was a great movie too. It is the Joaquin Phoenix and performance.

I think it is great. Wetherspoon I think is great, but um, yeah, just the sort of um reductive nature of biopics and how uh and just the corny nous of them, like walk Hard. It just nails it so perfectly. It's a tough genre, you know, Like I love Bohemian Rhapsody, but just because I'm such a Queen fan, um, I mean, you know, like the live aid part is super entertaining. I mean, you can't not be roused by that. It's

it's well done. But they're they're a tough genre to pull off and make a really great movie, like if you're talking about really great movies. I mean, as much as I loved it, it was corny and cheesy and did not deserve like these Academy awards, I don't think, But I think it just it hit me right in the fields because I'm such a Queen fan, Like I didn't care. I want to. I forgave it of everything because I just love it so much. Yeah, you know,

I kind of feel the same way. I mean, I I can step back and I can point out all the flaws with it because it's a pretty ridiculous movie. And there's also like some weird things that they do with Freddie Mercury Story, especially at the end, and like the chronology of like when he got sick and when he found out about it like this, Yeah, which is kind of weird if you know the real story. But um, you're right, Like the it's like you're in a movie

theater listening to queen music for two hours. So like, even if the movie is flawed, like, are you not having a good time? I mean, it's still a good time at the end of the day. So yeah, totally. You know, it's not a great movie, but it was

a very entertaining movie. I think, Yeah, absolutely. Uh So my next movie, I went for this one movie about a fictional rock band, almost Famous, which I think is, um, it is a flawed movie in some ways, and that it's sort of overly saccharin at times, and uh, but there's just something about it. Man. When it came out. Uh, going to see that movie in the theater was a real experience. I think Cameron Crow really nailed more than many directors I've seen, what it's what it might be

like to be in a band. I thought he nailed the I thought the live music performance sections of that movie were amazing and really realistic. Uh, And it was just such a charming movie in every way it was. It was like the best of what I used to love about Cameron Crow like kind before we started making what I think are pretty subpart movies. Um, I love it. I love those songs, and I love that story, and uh that movie still holds it like a pretty special place in my heart. Yeah, I mean I love it.

I mean as a music critic, that is the rare movie where a music critic is the hero of the film's kind of your story. I mean I've called that like the top Gun of music criticism. Like how like people saw top Gun then they're like, I want to join, right, I want to fire airplanes, you know, like you see almost famous and you're like, I want to be a rock critic. This seems like the best. And the Lester

Bang stuff was so cool. That's the thing. Like, you know, Philip Seymour Hoppin's portrayal of Lester Bangs is like that's more famous than Lester Banks now, Like like I like he's like overtaken that like reality, and I really think that, like like that version of Lester Bangs is like the most famous rock critic ever. You know, I wish I could have seen that movie too. Oh man, that would have been like a movie where just it's just Philip Seymour Hoffman, you know, hanging out with like Lou Reed

and biggy pop. That would have been amazing. Um Yeah, I love I love Almost Famous too. I agree with you about like the live music scenes. I appreciate that, like Cameron Crowe made them like a credibly like okay band, you know, like because I don't think Still Water is

supposed to be led Zeppelin or the Allman Brothers. It's based on his experiences with those bands, but like they're not supposed to be as good as those bands, and they're supposed to be like kind of like a mid level like Black Oak Arkansas or something, you know, like the Theater sized. Yeah, like a like a boogie rock band from the seventies. And like he co wrote those songs with Nancy Wilson from Heart, who was his wife at the time, Like likes like Fever Dog, you know,

like songs like that a good song. And I think, too Almost Famous. What I respond to in it is like the love of music, Like there's it expresses what it means to love music so much or love a band so much in a really kind of pure and I think genuine way where yeah, it might be a little corny, but like you know, loving a band is kind of corny. You know, that's the way it is. And like that's kind of the great thing about it, where you just kind of give yourself up to something

and you're not self conscious about it. You just love it unequivocally, you know, And I appreciate that fearlessness in a way like to not be cool. I'm not gonna be cool about this because I love it. You know

that that's the way it should be. Yeah, it was a pure love letter, and you know, if you're a music fan, you can't help but love the end of that movie when when Billy crewed up comes to that house and gives him that interview in the bedroom and the way he wrote that, you know, I think the line of something like what do you what do you love most about music or being in a band and setting me he said something like, you know, to start with everything and and then and they just trail it

off from there, and it's just I still sort of get chills at that moment. It was just a love letter to to rock and roll in every way. Tangerine in the background that leads uplands on. The music cues are crazy, and the bus going into the sunset at the end, it's yeah, it's like yeah, it's like that iconography that just speaks to me, like I will be a sucker for that. Any to the week. Um So, next movie on my list, um is you know if

you love The Last Waltz, I'd recommend this movie. It's a little less well known, but I think it's really great. It's called Chuck Berry Hale Hale, Rock and Roll. I've never seen that. Great movie came out in seven, directed by Taylor Hackford. It's about this uh concert that Chuck Berry played in his hometown of St. Louis. I guess it would have been six um when he was sixty years old, and he assembled this all star and like Keith Richards was on guitar. Uh, the bass player from

nrb Q was on base. I can't remember his name. Um, I think Steve Jordan was on drums, and like Eric Clapton shows up at one point, Air Clapton. That's the link I guess between this and The Last Waltz. Um So, it's a concert movie, but before the concert movie part of it begins like the first half of it is just about Chuck Barry and following him and just what his career was like at this moment in his life.

How he was just flying from town to town playing with pickup bands, like he didn't have his own band. He just played with local musicians essentially, and like Keith Richards talks about how, you know he wants to do this concert because every time he's seen Chuck Berry it's always been bad. He's like, he's always playing with these like local musicians, who what a weird thing to do? Good? Well, I think it was, like, you know, it was probably cheaper for him to do that because you don't have

to have you don't have a band on retainer. You know, you just show up. These guys are so excited just to play with Chuck Barry. He's taking probably like he's probably kicking these guys fifty bucks and like a case of pay or something. There's a great story Bruce Springsteens in the movie, and he tells a story about how Bruce Springsteen early in his career opened up for Chuck Berry and like his band ended up being Chuck Berry's backing band. So he tells this great story about how

like they're on stage. You know, Bruce Springsteen is playing lead guitar or or rhythm guitar or whatever and Chuck Berry's band and like he has no idea what Chuck's about to play, and they have to figure out, like Chuck just counts in and starts playing, and you know, Chuck Berry like the riffs of his songs they kind of sound alike, so they have to figure out what song they're playing in and what key. And it's just amazing.

She was always good on the fly like that. Yeah, total it had been known to do stuff like that in his own band, like you know, follow me in g right exactly. It's just wild to see, you know, just to imagine like a young Bruce Springsteen playing with Chuck Barry, it's kind of like a dream type thing to imagine. So yeah, great movie, great, Uh you know, I mean the mute the concert part of it is great, but like all the stuff that leads up to it

is great. There's a great scene like we're Chuck Barry and Keith Partisica do an argument like where they're just screaming at each other over like how to properly play some song so a wonderful movie. Um and yeah, I feel like it was critically claimed at the time, and it's been overlooked a little bit over the years. I think you're right, but definitely seek it out. It's it's really great, all right. That's I gotta add that to

the old list. It's something I've seen clips of over the years a lot, but for some reason, just never got to it. Um. Alright, So my next one is a movie about a fictional Motown R and B band, and it is dream Girls, the Great two thousand six Films from Bill Condon. Uh. I love dream Girls. My wife loves dream Girls. I think it's got some of the best original songs of any music movie of all time. The acting is amazing. Uh, Eddie Murphy is unbelievable. Um,

Jamie Fox Beyonce. I mean it's it's really one of my favorite music movies of all time. And I grew up as a kid, like my parents weren't into music very much. I wasn't like I didn't have the dad that was like, hey, this is Simon and Garf, Uncle, you gotta listen to this. This is amazing. Like they sort of liked music, but it just wasn't a big thing. Like I got my music from listening to Casey Kyson every weekend and being a radio head as a you know,

nine year old. And um. The one album they did have though, was the Big Chill Soundtrack like every boomer and when I was whatever, I mean, I can't remember when that came out. I had to be like eight or nine. I was introduced to some of the best music in history, and I was introduced to motown. And from that moment on, I was like I was a nine and ten year old that was listening to Aretha Franklin and the Supremes and Otis reading and uh and I mean, you name it man, and it just it's

a love that is still with me today. I still love. One of my favorite things to do, and it's just a big group hang out is just put on a Motown You can never go wrong with a motown playlist as far as just satisfying the most people with like good time music. Yeah, it's the easiest music on the planet to like, I mean, because like I mean, no matter what genre you might be into, yeah, you're putting on you know, Supremes or four Tops or something. People

are going to respond positively to it. I've never seen dream Girls. I've heard it's great. I've heard Murphy's great. I heard he got Robbed for Guys here and it's great. I mean the songs themselves are just phenomenal, and it's uh yeah, I mean, you know, it's broad I think it was a Broadway show before it was a movie, if I'm not mistaken. Um, really really great, great movie. Have you seen that movie Standing in the Shadows of Motown? The about the backing musicians that we have that in

twenty ft from Stardom? Yeah, or a couple of my favorite sort of behind the scenestocks. Those are good. Yeah, this is the whole this the whole Motown Factory. It's such a fascinating period that they could just like turn out this music in a very sort of like automated kind of way, and yet it was so great and they had so much soul to it. You think that there would be a chance that this music could be kind of like, you know, forgettable, you know, because they

were just churning it out so much. But they those musicians were so great and the songwriters were just like the greatest ever. You know, they just hit upon a groove and it was it was, it was phenomenal. Yeah. So my next film is a movie that it's part of this wave like in the last ten years, it's been just like a ton of like music documentaries that have come out, um that are authorized documentaries, Like there was just this past week HBO they debuted, um the

Bigs documentary how Can You Meant a Broken Heart? We can't wait to see that. It's you know, I have a couple qualms with it, but overall, I really really

liked it. I think it's it's a very entertaining movie. Um. But I think that the best example of like this recent run like artists authorized docs is History of the Eagles, which came out I think in like thirteen or fourteen, And this is a movie where, you know, if you don't like the Eagles, I think you would actually enjoy this film more than a person who loves the Eagles, because it's the rare movie like this that I think is an actuals and all depiction where the main guys

do not come off very well, like Don Henley, Glenn Fry don't come off very well. To what degree that was that they were conscious of that, I don't know, Uh, it may have been over their heads a little bit, um, but this movie, to me, it's such an entertaining snapshot.

I think of like what happened to rock music between the early seventies in the early nineties, Like if you just wanted to like kind of see one story that like traced how rock music went from being this sort of like hippie, feel good kind of music to being like uber corporatized, you know, boomer sort of like nostalgia thing by the nineties. This film covers it, like, you know, covers it perfectly. It's like a long movie. It's about three and a half hours long. There's like two parts

to it. Um, but it's so colorful. There's so colorful characters in this movie. It's very quotable. Uh there's there's are we allowed to swear on this podcast? Or do you like? Okay? So one of my favorite scenes in this movie is, like it comes in the second half where David Geffen is talking about his feud with Don Henley and he looks into the camera and he says, you know, and I think this is something he said to Don. He said, I'd rather die than let you

fuck me. And that's a line I quote all the time. I just think that's a hilarious line. Um. And by the way, we will definitely be doing a multi part series on the Eagles on right very soon. But yeah, if you if you love seventies rock, if you love just like kind of down and dirty, like feuding, this movie is for you. And again, if you hate the Eagles.

I know a lot of people hate the Eagles, I actually think you'll like this movie more because then if you're a fan, because you will justify your dislike of them, but you'll also be entertained by the movie as well. Yeah. So here's my history of the Eagles is. I grew up a really big Eagles fan when I was a kid. I love the Eagles, and um new you know, knew

all those songs backwards and forwards. Then I think because of classic rock radio, which is there's a great line in that movie where I think Henley is saying like we were kind of fading away and then classic rock radio started and that was it, Like you could hear our songs forever now, And he's right, and a hundred years I'll be playing the Eagles on a classic rock

radio station. But it got so overplayed, and I sort of also got caught up in the the anti Eagles thing that came about, which I think Big Lebowski has a little bit shoulders. I kind of was done and didn't listen to the Eagles at all for many, many years, and this documentary made me rediscover my love for the Eagles to where I was like, why am I not listening to this band? I fucking love these songs? And that all culminated with me going to see this last

Eagles tour as a guest. The stuff you should know listener is um one of the one of the techs. Uh.

He's not a guitar tech. He sort of does like um, well, I don't want to volte what he actually does, but he's on the crew like a high high place member of the road crew, and he uh invited my wife and I and gave us like I got to stand on the stage at Philips Arena with the curtain up with everyone out there, with like fifteen thousand people kind of stirring, and I got to touch Don Henley's drum set, and I got to touch you know, Glenn Fry's son has all his dad's guitars there, and uh, and I

got to like touch those and touch Joe Walsh's guitars, and it was it was amazing, dude. It was a great show. Um, what can you say about going to a conswert where they play thirty five songs that everybody knows by heart. It's a ridiculous amount of great music and huge, huge, monster hits. So that documentary was a big deal for me. That really made me rediscover my

love for them. Yeah, and it I agree. I mean I have like a love hate relationship with the Eagles for like the reason that you're saying that, like they were a band that would I just felt like you could not get away from for the longest time. But if you can actually step back and just look at those songs as like craftsmanship, I mean they are, like you know, they're like a brick ship house of songwriting. I mean, you can get ridiculous and a trade those songs.

They're like just perfectly written. They're almost like two perfect sometimes like because I sometimes like things that aren't quite that well crafted. But you can't deny, you know, what they put in those songs. There's a reason why those songs are played so much. Like you here, take it easy, and it's like it's kind of like a perfectly written song,

you know, from from beginning to end. Um. So yeah, but I just want to say because I do, because I know some people instantly recoil at the Eagles, I think because of the big Lebowski thing, And I'm like, I'm just saying, like, if you're not a fan, I think you'll still enjoy this movie because the story itself is like so interesting, and the characters in that movie, yeah, are so colorful. Um that it's more entertaining than most

documentaries about a band that you might actually love. You know, There's so much there that I think is really great. So yeah, History of the Eagles alright, number four on my list is actually my favorite favorite documentary about a band. Um. And this is hard because there's the list is long, but uh, as a Tom Petty fan, it doesn't get any better than Peter Bogdanovich's epic, epic, like four hour documentary on Tom Petty in The Heartbreakers Running Down a Dream.

It's just I mean, all rock documentary should be four hours long, you know what you've seen this well yeah, and I mean the Eagles one is that long too. I was thinking that during the Bigs documentary, Like that is one of my quibbles with that movie is that that's another band with a fascinating story where it could be three or four hours long, and they end up cutting out some things that I think are interesting for

the same in order to keep it under two hours. Um. But yeah, I'm so glad you brought up this movie, Like this might be my favorite movie to watch if I'm up late at night and uh I've had some sal we say chemical enhancement, and and I just want to hang out and feel good. Yeah, man, put On Running Down a Dream like, I will always be happy to see that movie. It just puts me in like the happiest place. It's the best. I mean, there was no one better than Tom Petty. And the Warren Zanes

book is just amazing. Like I can just give it all to me. Uh, if Stan Lynch wrote a book, I would read it. Um. I think that that's got to happen. That's the Rivals episode at some point, prob. Yeah, or I mean Stan Lynch and Jimmy Irvine, you know who. I just wrote a huge I wrote a list of like my favorite hundred favorite Tom Petty songs. It was like a twelve thousand word story I wrote and I got to read that, and one of my beefs in there was you watch that movie and you watch other

Tom Petty things. Jimmy Irvine is always knocking. Stan Lynch is drumming, And I think Stan Lynch is a great drummer. I love I love I love his drumming, I love his backing vocals. I love him as a personality, Like, I think he's funny. I could see how he would be obnoxious if you're Tom Petty, like because he was always I think, kind of given Tom shit a little bit. But and he wanted to be. He was a rock star. He was tall and good looking, sort of brash, all

about the chicks and um, I don't know. I think he added uh sort of a wild card element to that band though that I love. I mean, no knocking Uh is Steve Arron. Yeah, he's a great drummer too, But like he was, but he wasn't he was gonna do what Tom said, you know, stand Lynch. I think that, I mean, I look, I love The Heartbreakers with Steve ARRONI but like it seems like the Heartbreakers with stand Lynch is like a different entity. It kind of feels like more like a real band band type thing where

each guy's got a personality to it. And yeah, I think that's what really comes through. And the documentary too, is because of his success as a quote unquote solo artist. I think it's it's sort of it is like Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band, But the Heartbreakers were they all he always wanted to think of themselves as a real band. Like if it was up to Tom Petty, they may have just been called the Heartbreakers and not

Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. And uh, one of my favorite parts of that documentary is this the Stephen story when you know they're obviously such good friends and she wanted to join them, and like it's Stevie fucking Knicks in and Tom Petty and that Gainesville drawl just goes, they are we don't have girls in the Heartbreakers, he says in such a sweet way. It's it's just such a great line. It's wild. Then then then you know,

Mike Campbell ends up in Stevie Nicks's band. You know, like she obviously just wanted a little bit of that Heartbreakers feel. You know, it was a Great Tour. I didn't get to see that. I've never seen Fleetwood Mac. They're like one of the They're one of my big sort of holes in my history. Although I love Fleetwood Mac obviously. Um Yeah. I think with the Heartbreakers even more than the eas Street Band, like Mike Campbell and Ben Montench. Those two guys especially, like what they brought

to Tom Petty songs. It's so integral where I mean, anytime he did another project, he still brought those guys. Yeah, he had to have Mike Campbell writing Shotgun and Ben Montench just as a keyboardist is like one of my all time favorites. He's amazing. He was just a kid when they started. He was he was the young in Yeah, and like a wild man too until he sobered up. I mean, it seems like he was like the big party guy in the band, which I was a little

surprised by when I watched the movie. I wouldn't have thought that necessarily, but he's a cool dude. Um. Next, My next movie is, um I think one of the great movies of all time, not just the music movie, but just as a movie period, and that is Robert

Altman's Nashville which came out in nine and um. One of the great things about this movie, and I feel like it was maybe the first movie to do this, is that you have all these actors in the movie who aren't musicians, but like they actually ended up like writing their own songs and like playing instruments. So it's not one of those things where you watch a music movie and the actor starts playing a song and they're clearly like lip syncing, something which I know, for me

always takes me out of the movie. You know, if you're watching a movie and like it's clearly not their voice and they're clearly not playing the guitar, it's like or they show like a live music scene and like, you know, the live sound is like way too perfect, and people in the audience can talk to each other and they don't have to shout, you know. It's like

it's so phony. And in Nashville, along with just obviously the great drama of that movie and all the great actors there in it, I think like the way live music is presented in Nashville is so great. And I think that like the classic scene in that movie I think is the scene like we're Keith Carradine is in this nightclub and he starts playing a song called I'm Easy, which is which is the song that he wrote, which

is it's a phenomenal song. And he's playing it and all these women that he's like slept with are in the audience, and they think that he's singing to them, and then finally they realized that no, he's singing directly to Lily Tomlin who's in the back, who he hasn't slept with yet. He's like trying to seduce heir, and he's playing this song. Um, and it's just such a wonderful movie. It's a great snapshot of like what that city was in the mid seventies, like the country's music industry,

but just also just a great snapshot of America. Uh. And obviously the ending is crazy. I won't say what the ending is if you haven't seen it, but UM, wonderful movie, highly recommended, great music movie, and just a great American film period. Yeah. That's I mean one of the masters that was actually UM covered on this show. It was It's the favorite movie of John Cameron Mitchell,

which I thought was pretty cool. And you know, we might as well go ahead and throw Headthig in The Angry Inches one of the great music movies of all them too. I've not seen that. Oh I need to see that. It sounds like I really need to see it. I've heard it's awesome for some reasons. I don't know why I haven't seen that yet. Yeah, great music. Um So my number five is a three way tie. And

I'm just gonna categorize this is behind the scenes. Docks and twenty from Stardom is one that we mentioned along with Muscle Shoals and the Wrecking Crew and uh and as you know, Muscle Shoals and the Wrecking Crew were about these two sort of groups of legendary backing musicians. Uh and the jeez, I guess the when did they start?

With the fifties through seventies? That sounds right roughly. Um. And these you know, these players that played on some of the most iconic songs of all time, uh and with the most iconic bands of all time, and they were largely unsung to a certain degree. Um, you know, speaking of dry By Truckers, Patterson Hoods, Uh Dad David hood Is was I think he was a ace player? Right? Yeah? And on some of these great records and it's just

cool to see them get their due. Uh. Same with twenty Feet from Stardom and I guess standing in the shadows of Motown with with the backup singers. Uh, these people that are so talented, and we're comfortable in that position of knowing, like, you know what, I'm never gonna be the Rolling Stones or the Beach Boys, but I might play in a session for these guys. Yeah. I I love when music films can access history like that

through an unexpected portal. You know, it's typical, I think, to make a movie about a really famous person and to focus on their story. But sometimes those don't work as well because it's like, well, we know these stories already, or we already have a fixed idea of like who um these big superstars are. And it can be and if you watch a movie, especially if it's like an actor playing a famous person, a lot of times it doesn't work because you're like, oh, you're not that guy.

I know what that other person is. So you know, I feel like those movies are great because you're meeting these musicians, but it's also like it's another way to talk about like this wonderful music of the sixties and seventies that we all know, but like maybe we don't

know this aspect of it, you know. I like with the Um Muscle Shoals, I remember being blown away just realizing that, you know, because I I'm aware of like the like Aretha Franklin and like a lot of the great soul people that recorded there, but like Bob Seeger, like most of his great hits were recorded there, you know, and all those guys play on those songs, and it just shows like they could play like with a lot of different artists and make it work because they were

just such great musicians. So yeah, it's it's great to be able to learn those stories, you know, and kind of add to your appreciation of music you already love. Yeah, for sure. So that was my last on the on that list ideal of honorable mentions. But what's your number five? So and this is actually I had a number one on my list, although like all these could be number one.

But I do love this movie a lot, and it's kind of related to what we were just talking about, because this is a film that I think did a really clever thing where instead of making a movie about Bob Dylan in the early sixties, like when he was first starting out in New York and Greenwich Village in

the folk scene. They made a movie about a character who could have been in that scene at the same time, who was like in Bob Dylan's orbit, but they just focused on him and made it about him and made it a movie not about success but about failure and about coming with failure. And that's Inside Leewin Davis my favorites. Yeah, this is like one of my favorite I think just Coen Brothers movies, which is like a great honor for

me too. I mean, like because I love pretty much all their movies, and I find that I have different favorites all the time, but Inside Leewin Davis is always among my top favorite of their of their films. And you know, like I was saying, I love that idea that like because in a way, I think that is like a Bob Dylan movie, and like Bob Dylan shows up at the end, like and you don't see him clearly, you hear him, and he's seen. He's presented in a way as like a sign of doom because it's like

there's this guy, you know, Oscar Isaac. Brilliant performance by Oscar Isaac as as Lleuen Davis. He's trying to make it. He's this sort of more kind of conventional folk singer, and it's like, no, like, you're not going to be famous, You're not going to ever make it. There's this other guy who has just entered the scene. He's gonna like do all the things that you wanted to do. Um,

And I don't know. It's just such a great portrait to me because you know, I again, I feel like a lot of you know, documentaries or books or whatever, it always focuses on the people who made it, you know, the the icons, the legends. But I'm interested in the people who didn't make it, the people who who failed in a way that's more relatable. It's another reason why this is a movie I could have put on my list.

Um i'm adeis the Male Shore Measure film, which I think is a brilliant film, and it's a similar thing where you know, like Mozart's in that movie, but it's really about Salieri. It's really about this guy who was very successful in his time, but he wasn't going to be legendary like Mozart and his curses that he can recognize that, like he recognizes the genius of this guy, and he knows what it means for him. He knows that it means like I'm just like a hack really

compared to this guy, and how painful that is to realize. Um. And I think there's a nice parallel there with inside Leewin Davis. It's somewhere kind of thing based on what was that guy's name? I think it's is this I guess I'm not educated off my classical music. I guess I thought there actually was a saliary, But is there not? Actually,

you know, I mean Lewen Davis, Davan Rock. I think I think that was, Like, I don't think because Davan Ronk wrote a biography called The Mayor of McDougall Street, and I think some of the details from that book are in the film. I don't think. I don't know if he's like supposed to be Dave and Ronk exactly.

I think it's just a loose inspiration, right exactly. Um. But yeah, just a great movie, great soundtrack, the songs are so good, and it's it's a movie I like to watch this time of the year, especially because movie it's a great winner movie. Yeah, it's always cold. It's always cold. And I mean the scene in that movie

that always stands out to me. It's funny that I just brought ups because f Marie Abraham has one scene and he shows up to you know, Oscar Issing shows up to audition at this famous folk club in Chicago. He's like traveled across the country through all these problems. He plays in one song and he says, I don't hear a lot of money in this. Uh. It's funny and it's heartbreaking, but it's like such an accurate sort of depiction of like, yeah, this guy is really good.

He has a lot of talent, but you're not going to be the guy. You know, you're not gonna make anyone a million dollars and that's it. You had one audition and it's over and un timber Lake is so good, Adam Driver, Uh Stark Sands who plays Troy Nelson. Oh yeah, Garrett Headlin, I mean John Goodman. It's such a great movie. Um, I just pulled up my favorite line of dialogue, if you'll allow me, from Carrie Mulligan as Jean, when she says they have that great scene in Washington Square Park

and she just hates him so much. She said, I should have had you wear double condoms. But if you ever do it again, which is a favorite to women everywhere, you should not. But if you do, you should be wearing condom on condom and then wrap it in electrical tape. You should just walk around always inside a great big condom because you are shit. I love that movie so much, man, the look of it, that's sort of it's just a

gorgeous movie to look at. I love everything about it. Yeah, it's kind of like fuzzy around the edges, you know, it kind of has like it feels like it's a little frosted over in a way, and it's it's sort of like a Cepia tone, but like it's not I don't know. There's something about that movie where it's romantic on one level, but yeah, it's also like kind of brutal. Yeah, Like it's just it's just like digs in like the the knife. Like there's that scene to like we're jeans

on stage. I think it's Jane and Max. Max Casella is the owner of the club. Yeah, and he's just talking about the other, like all the women he wants to sleep with, He's like, yeah that Jane. I love to sleep with Jane and I sleep with But yeah, it's so good man. It's such a great movie and a great choice. So yeah, that would be number one on my list today. But if if I was on your show again tomorrow talking about music movies, I probably

have a different number. It's not fair, And I'll have you back for sure, because we have clearly a lot to talk about. But my honorable mentions and I'm just gonna kind of tick through these quickly. If you're looking for good music movies and documentaries, there's a movie called Sing Street, which is just fantastic. Love that movie from the director of Once, another great music movie. Um, Sing Street, coming of age movie? Um set in I guess is

it Ironlanders at Scotland? Yeah, it's Dublin in nine ten eight five. So if you have any love for sort of early to mid eighties new wave wrapped in a great coming of age love story, I would highly recommencing Street absolutely. I'll second that. Uh. Along those similar lines, um, geographically, twenty four hour party people in a great movie. Yes, I just I rewatched that not that long ago. Steve Coogan, good. Yeah, unbelievable.

Just two of the movie about a time in music history that just really encapsulates what was going on at Factory Records, and um, just sort of the birth of this genre. Almost Yeah, so good. I was also gonna say, uh, there's a movie called Control, which is a Yeah, it's a it's a bio pick about Joy Division, very small

indie style, which is a good movie. I mean because twenty four Hour Party People kind of has like a Joy Division bio pick tucked inside of it, like the first half of it, and like the Ian Curtis in that movie, it's so great and how that movie is so good? Yeah, that could have been on my list easily. I'm waiting for a great Smith's movie. I know that they did one a few years ago, but I don't think it was very well received, so I didn't even see it. I wasn't even aware that there was a

Smith's movie. Yeah, let me see here. I'm gonna look it up. It's called Uh, England is Mine from three years ago, based on the early years of Morrissey. Um, but it wasn't supposed to be very good, so I kind of was like, I don't even want to Sometimes if you love a band, you don't want it tainted by a bad depiction. Oh yeah, it can be. It can be so annoying to see a movie about a

band you love and they just get everything wrong. A handful of documentaries that I think are great over the last like ten years, Searching for Sugarman, Um, great great movie with with a cool central mystery. A band called Death. Great documentary about this kind of unknown Detroit punk band, like all black punk band, which was very much an outsider kind of thing at the time. I like that movie.

Great documentary. Um, David Crosby, remember my name, Really Warts and All, if you want to talk about Warts and All documentaries. It's such a sad thing to watch on one hand, and that he's just like, I've been an asshole my whole life and now I'm alone because of it. I know. Well. And yeah, I mean we did a four part series on or was it was three parts actually,

But yeah, I'm a sucker for any CSNY content. Oh man, I mean their story is crazy with a number of beefs and allegiances and like I'll go make a record with you, but not you, and then now we'll get together and make some music. But not him, and we'll tour together. But Neil Young will be out of here in three weeks. And it's just such a crazy story. Let me see here, Linda ron Stat The Sound of My Voice, great great doc that beats rhymes in life.

A Tribe called Quest from Michael Rappaport. It's a little uneven and not the best film, but if you love a tribe called Quest, it's it's a pretty great documentary. Yeah. I was a fan of that too. Festival Express, Yes, yeah, I did. That's about like that Canada tour with the band and on the train. Yeah, that's awesome, great, great footage, some of the best archival footage of some of those groups. Uh. And then more recently Eight Days a Week the touring

years about the Beatles, uh from Ron Howard. Fantastic, that's great. I have a couple uh recommendations here too. I guess um in terms of just like overblown biopics that I love, Oliver Stone's The Doors. It's a movie that is like so campy. I actually I quoted a bit of dialogue from this movie in the epigraph of my second book, Twilight or the Gods, just because I loved it. It

was just this. It was like a total biopics scene, like where Raymond's Eric is saying, like, you know, people are in the streets, man, they're looking for something that we need to be the spokesman of our generation. And then Jim Morrison says, yeah, man, there should be orgies too.

You know. So I rewatched The Doors recently. It's so ridiculous, but I hold up, well, it depends on what you're looking for, if you if you embrace the ridiculous, overblown, like you know, sort of campiness of it, I think it's great. Like I I really enjoy it, and I like The Doors to Like there are another band like the Eagles that people sure have a hat. You have a phase, yeah, where you hate that where you love them for a while. Then I think it's kind of

fashionable to hate them. But yeah, I mean I love The Doors. In college, I was in a big Doors phase when that movie came out, so it was an event, Like we went opening night and I thought it was like one of the best rock and roll movies I've ever seen. Um and just haven't seen it much since then, So I'm sort of afraid to maybe you shouldn't. Maybe you should just preserve that memory. But I think it's

a lot of slet it be there. I enjoy another another movie that like that's more like an unconventional rock movie, but I think it's really great. Is Velvet gold Mine the Todd Haynes. Yeah, where they didn't have the rights to the David Bowie catalog, but like he still made it work, and like I think it's a great movie about like the idea of David Bowie and like a like a fan's perspective, like one fan's perspective on what he meant. And um, you know, great performances by Ian McGregor.

Plays like an Iggy pop type person. I don't think he's Iggy Pop, but he's like so greatly based on him. Great movie. Um, A great movie from like the early eighties. I think has been overlooked a little bit over the years. Tender Merci's Bruce Parris for his movie. Robert Daval won an Oscar for this movie for best a. Um. It's a movie that like like if you've seen Crazy Heart, the Jeff Bridges movie, this is like the precursor to that, Like where Robert Daval was like an alcoholic country singer

who's trying to remake his life. I like Crazy Heart. I think Tender Mercy's is a much better movie. It's really beautiful, really well done, gentle movie. This is another movie like Robert Daval like wrote his own songs for this movie and he sings them in the movie, and it really kind of gives like an authenticity to this, like it's kind of like a Whalen Jennings type person. But definitely seek that out. Wonderful movie. And the last

one I'm gonna recommend. This is a movie that like I avoided for a long time because I thought I wouldn't like it. I thought it'd be annoyed by it. But I saw it recently and I really loved it. It's Edgar Wright, Scott Pilgrim versus the World. We just covered that on the show. It's a great, great movie. It's a great movie. I don't know why I thought

I wouldn't like it, but it's a great movie. And it's a great app shot of like sort of like like a pop punk, emo indie rock world of Like when that movie came out, which would have been I think like the late odds, like two ten or so. I think that came out something like that. Um Uh, it's a very busy movie, like very you know, lots of things happening at once, but um it feels like a like a video game essentially. Um. But it's really well made, really funny, in engaging. I thought Michael Sarah

was great. Jason Schwartzman is in it. Uh, Breed Larson plays this like ex girlfriend who's like a rock star, and like she's really great in that role. There's like so many people before they like really blew up, we're in that movie. Yeah, really great cast and like actually I think like a really good soundtrack to of like sort of like sound alike songs like done in the style. Uh. So if you're like me and you were like, oh, I'm not gonna like that movie, definitely see that movie.

Although I'm sure I feel like most people love that movie. It's a pretty beloved cult movie by this right now for sure. Um. But yeah, Scott Pilgrim Versus the World. So I feel like we could just keep listening movies forever. I keep thinking of new movies I want to talk about, but consider this part one. Then you know we'll have

you back. I think you'd be fun to talk more about movies we love, and also it might be fun to talk a little bit about some of the ones that have really gone wrong, because there have been some bad, bad rock and roll movies about either great bands or ideas like the CB g B movie where you're just like, oh, man, how could you funk that up? Um? So maybe it'd be fun if he came back for a part two where we kind of talked about both our favorites and some of the ones that they just really screwed up.

That would be phenomenal, man, I would really enjoy that. Alright, Steve, Well, it was great meeting you, my friend. I knew this was gonna go this way and that we could probably go for like three hours if we had nothing else going on in our lives. But thank you for giving me so much time. I have a lot of new great recommendations. I'm gonna go read this Tom Petty uh from up Rocks the best Tom Petty songs ranked right after we hang up and go check out your books

buy them. Your Favorite Band Is Killing Me about musical Robberies, Twilight of the Gods about sort of you know, the heyday of classic rock, The Black Crow's Book Hard to Handle, and most recently, This Isn't Happening. If you love Radiohead and kid A can't wait to start this book, Um, go out and buy these books. And yes, Charles, thank

you so much. Movie Crash is produced and written by Charles Bryant and Roll Brown, edited and engineered by Seth Nicholas Johnson, and scored Yaniel Brown here in our home studio at Pontsty Market, Atlanta, Georgia. For I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,