Paul on Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

And so you might hear some random atmosphere. Hey, dude in quarantine on these movie crushes were all about atmosphere. Well you will, you might get what you're looking for. Then. Uh, Ruby's been popping in for most of these shows, but she actually spent the night at my mom's last night, so she will not be popping in right now, sadly. Dang. Oh well, but she says hi, she says, go Superman.

Screw you, Batman. She's team Superman. Huh. Yeah, So we're gonna we're going to talk about Well, first of all, we should just say that, you know, you and I had been doing the Sofia coppel of series and you said, hey, you want to mix it up since we're quarantined to do something just a little more Uh, you know fun?

Was this movie fun? No? Yeah, maybe that's this was a bad choice in retrospect, but it's something different, Yes, something different, which is good because I think people have been enjoying the uh during this lockdown period, these episodes that are a little I even got Casey to lighten it up. What did he do? Fidelity? He did high fidelity? Nice? Was that a good one? It was? It was good. I quite enjoyed that movie, So it's one talking to Casey about it. By the way, I really like your

your new new look with the sans beard. Yeah, it's already coming back, as you can tell. Are they are they gonna have to change the illustration art to remove your beard on the cover art. No, I did think about that. I was like, do I have to change my bit moji? Oh boy? But it's coming back, you know. Uh. Ruby was not a fan, and she has since gotten used to it, but she's like, grow the beard back, Daddy, what Ruby wants? Ruby gets that's right, you get a

little beard going. Yeah, I've always got kind of a little five o'clock shadow beard, but uh, letting my own regular hair grow out though, just because I haven't been to a barber in a while. So yeah, so I get decidedly younger and rounder when the beard is gone. I I showed my pick sure or I showed that picture of you on Facebook to Alice, my girlfriend, and she said, you look like Nathan Lane. So I got some of Nathan Lane. I got some lead singer of

the Descendants. I got who else? There were about five or six different people that I got, And you know, and Nathan Lane is It's fine. He's a treasure, He's a national treasure. Come on, no, I don't care. I clearly don't care what I look like. Paul. So you suggested a bunch of a list of movies and one of them was Down with Love, and I said, you know what, I've never seen that, uh, and I've heard

as good. Let's do that. And you bullied me into fucking Batman versus Superman Colin Dawn of Justice Colon Ultimate Edition, which we had to push this recording because I was gonna watch it last night and then I was like, you know what, I'll just get up in the morning and watch it and then record right after. I did not realize it was a three hour movie, so we had to kind of push this by well, probably forty five minutes. I want to thank you, Chuck for indulging

me in this film. I have a lot to say on it. I've got almost three pages of notes that I typed up since last night. No, that's fantastic. I'm glad. I'm excited to dig in, and I appreciate, appreciate you being willing to play ball here with me. No, of course, man. And you know, I'll go ahead and level set right out of the gate and say that I saw the regular theatrical version in the theaters. Uh it, I remember

not really loving it at the time. I will say the Ultimate edition is feels like a fuller experience, and I think that thirty minutes helped, which is not always the case. Uh. And I liked the movie now really don't don't love it, but I didn't like it. It was a bit of a slog at three hours, but um, I wasn't like ever board. There's just a lot to unpack in this movie, So start unpacking. Absolutely absolutely so. Uh, I guess I should start where I'm coming from with

this movie. I've actually never seen the theatrical cut. I only came to this movie, uh seeing having seen the Ultimate Edition. I didn't see it in theaters. I actually wasn't really interested in kind of the d C movies at that time. Uh. And so I guess just too two level set where I'm coming from. Uh. When you know, you talk about the Marvel versus d C battle, I wouldn't say I really have a dog in that fight. Um.

I I see most of the Marvel movies. Uh, I didn't see many of the d C movies until seeing this one and then kind of going back and and seeing some of the other ones like Man of Steel and and Wonder Woman, which I liked a lot. Uh.

And so that's kind of where I'm coming from. And especially because with these DC movies especially, there's a lot of toxic there can be a lot of toxic fandom out there, okay, Uh that you know, when Batman v. Superman came out or Justice League, these movies were not well received by the critics, especially compared to Marvel, and so a lot of people saying that, you know, oh, people are just biased against DC blah blah blah blah blah blah. I don't Again, I don't really care much

about all that. I think Batman v. Superman is a legitimately great film. It might actually be one of my favorite superhero films full stuff. Oh okay, all right, that

is a level setting. Um. And I will also say that while I did enjoy the movie today we I just crushed out The Winter Soldier with Annie, and seeing these two movies sort of back to back, uh, this one suffers a little bit because I just feel like Winner and you know, different films obviously, but Winter Soldier was such a sort of a richer experience character wise and so grounded in reality and had I think some amazing grounded in reality chase and fight sequences, and so

it was hard to get that out of my head because this movie is not that and it and it's not trying to be. So it's not fair really to judge it against that this movie is not grounded in reality at all, and it's very uh, very over the top in the action sequences, although I did follow it better than other Zack Snyder action sequences and other films just follow literally following the action. Yeah. I haven't listened to the Annie episode yet, but I'm I'm I'm sure

it was great. She's she obviously knows her stuff and she's a Big Winter Soldier fan in particular, So I'm excited to listen to that one. That's a good one. So so that's interesting. So I will say that when it comes to the Marvel films, like I said, I see most of them. My general take on most of the Marvel films is they all kind of are decent, and they're a handful of them that I think, for me rise above that handful might be Guardians of the Galaxy,

the First Captain America, maybe Black Panther. Uh. For me, the rest of them kind of sit in this decent but not great category where I kind of get fatigued because so many of them feel like they are movies made by committee. And I will say, whether you love or hate Batman v. Superman, it's one of the rare cases where I feel like the director was given free reign mostly to make the movie they wanted to make,

for better, for better, for worse. Yeah, I mean, all right, Well, there's a couple of questions I have for you, um and you can answer them in either order. Do you are you familiar with the Batman Versus Superman storyline in the common and what are your general Zax Schneider thoughts uh period, uh no, not really familiar with the comics. The storyline in the comics are you okay? So we're both coming and coming at it from a similar angle. Zack Snyder. Um, I have a few holes in his

filmography that I haven't seen. Uh so, I haven't seen all of his work. I think he can be really great, he can be really bad. I think he sometimes gets a h an unfair shake, perhaps because he kind he kind of gets seen as this guy making these big dumb movies that are like all about strong masculine men and that seeing how saying how that's awesome, like three stuff where I think what's actually in the films is

a bit more nuanced than that. And this one and this one definitely yeah yeah so and the third question, sorry I forgot, was um just general thought son Ben Affleck as Batman, which was a bit of a controversy at first and sits well with some people, doesn't sit as well with others. I in my notes I wrote, he might be my favorite Batman ever. Wow, all right, well,

let's hear about it. I think he just really commits to the role, and I think he he does a great job as Bruce Wayne especially, Uh, he's you know, he's a little bit older, he's got the hair is kind of graying, and he's he's a guy that's seen some ship. Um So, maybe yet to jump into the movie, we can talk about this depiction of Batman. Um. So,

you know, you've got the Christopher Nolan Batman movies. And one of the one of the readings of those films as a whole, you know, they came out in the early two thousands, is that they're all kind of reactions to We're gonna get a little political here, reactions to the to the Bush Years, the President Bush years post nine eleven. Here you've got this anti hero vigilante who has to break bend the rules in order to keep

people safe. And some people, some people could read that as that's maybe what president how President Bush saw himself in the War on Terror. And for example, in the Dark Night, you have the climax literally Batman using illegal cell phone surveillance technology to locate the Joker, and it's it's it's kind of messed up. It's like, you know, violation of civil rights, you know, going into the real

life Patriot Act stuff like that. So all that's to say here we have a Batman that's hateful, that's vengeful, that's mean, that's angry Batman. Yet I think, yes, absolutely he Um, he's alcoholic, he takes pills, he's racked with trial childhood trauma. Uh. And again he circumvents the rule of law, except this time he goes really far. Uh. He kills people, he literally brands them. Yeah, that's a big deal in this movie. Um, that he's gone to

the dark side. Yeah. And I think it's it's an interesting take because you see a Batman, you see kind of how messed up this idea of Batman can be. This this billionaire who has unlimited resources, who can kind of work above outside the law and do whatever he wants. And in the movie, you know, you see them say how he he becomes judge, jury and executioner for these

for these criminals. Yeah. And you know, the movie opens with sort of one of the and I don't know if this was on purpose or just sort of the natural order of how things go with this storyline, but it opens with the battle what was it called the Battle of New York or not New York. I guess

it would be the Battle of Metropolis. Metropolis with Superman vs. Odd and sort of not sort of like very much addresses some of the criticism from the fans, which was, ah, they have fucking destroyed Metropolis and killed untold thousands of people, ostensibly that you never really see that because of this battle with Zod, and there's a lot of blowback from

fans about that in that movie. And that's sort of the central driving force in this film of for for Batman and what he wants to do, because he's he's the guy that wakes up, sees Metropolis, rex sees his sees his business and his building cut in half, and and that one that the little girl you know that's scene at the beginning is really powerful, and he's the first one that's like Superman is bad guy, yeah, not

good guy. Yeah. I think that opening where we see the events from a different perspective is really great because first you got I think you got to give Snyder a lot of credit for addressing one of these big fair criticisms of Man of Steel, which was sort of indiscriminate killing of untold thousands just so these guys could have their their climactic battle on a playground that's earth,

you know. Yeah, they're big dick contest. Yes, absolutely, And so you see it from the ground perspective, and I think the you know, it evokes uh, to me, it evokes imagery of nine eleven very consciously, you know, especially when the building crashes down and the smoke rushes towards Bruce Wayne. That's that's nine eleven, nine eleven imagery right there. And so I love how he uses a criticism from the last movie to make and makes it kind of

the central conflict of the sequel. Yeah, yeah, because you know, Batman's is sort of the first one to get that seed planet and it said because, like I said, very personally, his business and industry was affected, but the whole world starts to get on board in this movie. Uh. And that is sort of this central conflict, which is Superman picks and chooses who he saves and who is who

dies in a certain way. Um, and all it takes is for this alien to change his mind and then we could you know, the whole god man false god concept is and savior thing. Like there's a lot of really heavy themes in here about Superman that if you were just a casual Superman fan and didn't read the comics and stuff. It's sort of pretty heavy stuff. You know. Sorry, Siri just talked to me for a second, but you know, it's it's like, it's some pretty weighty stuff here with

the Savior of the Messiah, the God complex. Yeah, I agree. I think. Um. I have a quote here that that's from Deborah Snyder, who's Zack Snyder's wife, but also I think producer and producer this movie, and she was talking about sort of the negative reaction to Batman be Superman,

and she said, people don't like to see their heroes deconstructed. Yeah, and I think this movie very much does that with these two characters, where it both of them, it questions the sort of the very foundations of what they're built on. And that's why the movie is so interesting for me, because it dares to do that, and even if it isn't entirely successful, it still dares to to give you

something different, you know. Yeah, and it's not. Um. It kind of occurred to me like somewhere an hour or two that there's not a there's really not a protagonist. In a lot of ways, it's hard to figure out who the good guy is. And I think maybe that had something to do with the critical reception is people. That makes people uncomfortable when there aren't very clear sort

of guidelines as to who you should be rooting for. Yeah, and you know, you can, may you choose to identify with Batman or Superman, but when they start doing things that you don't like, When Batman starts branding people, yeah, you know you're like, wait, wait a minute, this is this is the guy, this is my hero. It really kind of throws into question who we identify high with and what we see is heroic you know. Well yeah,

and then the same goes for Superman. Um. I mean, he's still a good guy per se in this movie, but he's definitely not painted as the all American hero. Um. It is more God in Messiah savior stuff going on. That that great scene when he goes to uh, Mexico and uh and saves that you know from the fire, saves that woman and then he's standing there and everyone's

sort of laying their hands on him. Uh maybe a little heavy handed, but pretty powerful image, you know, absolutely, And that sequence I actually rewatched this morning because it's one of my favorites. Where it starts with that scene where he's saving a child, and then it's kind of becomes a montage of him saving people intercut with these like talking heads on TV like Neil Degrass Tyson and

all these people debating, debating him. And it's so interesting when I rewatched at this time, how on one hand the scenes you re see Superman in that sequence, he's doing unambiguously good deeds. He's literally saving people left and right in each sequence, and yet the talking heads are debating about whether he's truly a force for good or you know, how does this make us feel that we're not the center of the universe anymore and that there's someone who's more powerful and could turn on us at

the drop of a hat. And I think that gets to one of the the big themes of this movie, which is Superman losing his faith in humanity. M hm,

whether humanity is even you know, worth saving. And Man of Steel kind of talked about that too, But that and again, that's that's a question that makes people uncomfortable because Superman is supposed to represent the best of what we can be, right, Yeah, And you know there's been I mean one too well, I can't count the Superman movies one, two, three, four, five, at least five or six maybe before this, Yeah, at least going back to Christopher Reeve, that really drilled into the notion that he

is only good. He is only apple pie and baseball and this Kryptonian somehow yet all American, kind of a hero in a lot of ways. Uh, And this movie never sort of paints him in that light. And and that's an awkward experience for a Superman fan. I think, Yeah, I really like there's a line in the movie that I think Perry White says its Lawrence fish Fishburn's character at the Daily Planet. He kind of brates Clark Kent. He says, you know, it's not night Nick apples don't

cost him Nickel Clark. And I think that gets out of a big question of this movie was which is is there even a place for Superman in the modern world or is the modern world too cynical and mistrusting to have somebody who who we hold up as sort of pure goodness? And you know you you said earlier, how compared to Winter Soldier, this movie isn't realistic, so

to speak. Yeah, not as grounded, not as grounded. And I agree with you to a certain extent, But I think the questions it poses are are extremely relevant to the real world. Yeah, I agree, and and think in some ways this is one of the more uh modern as far as the themes that explores modern relevant superhero movies. Um. Another aspect of that is the media and how like you said, he's doing all these great acts, but the

perception has changed. Sure, the destroying Metropolis had a lot to do with it, but it's really the media sort of running away with this new story. And you see it, you know, in all the news clips and the Charlie Rose bits and Neil de grasse Tyson right down to the Daily Planet and how they're covering it, and how Perry uh, Perry White just switches sort of in the middle to uh, you know, I can't remember what headline he barked out, but something about you know, is this

it for Superman? Are we done with him? Something? You know, along those lines. So like the modern portrayal of the media as completely in control of shaping the public consciousness is pretty relevant, I think. Yeah, I agree, And you know, it's it's this thing where regardless of what side of the political divide you fall on. Yeah, I think there's a certain agreement on both sides that that's true, you know, varying degrees depending on which side you're on. Yeah. Absolutely. Um,

it's interesting. You know, this is a three hour movie, this Ultimate edition, but like I said, I think it fared better than the two and a half hour. Um, maybe we should talk a little bit about some of the differences. I think, most notably the the whole Africa subplot is much more robust in this version and makes a lot more sense now than it did in the other version. Okay, so, so was it just much more truncated in the original. Yeah, I mean there wasn't, um if.

I mean, it's hard for me to remember because I saw in the theater so long ago, but it's never really you don't ever fully get what was going on with him going to Africa to save Lois and that being a set up to make it look like he had laser eyed all those people. It's not like there's just I can't remember how like what where they cut, but they left out way too much from Africa subplot to where it didn't make a lot of sense. And I remember that kind of bugging me at the time.

Mm hmm. Yeah, well yeah, again, I have I haven't seen the theatrical cut. But I do think that sequences, and it's that sequence occurs pretty early in the movie, if I'm not taking it's right, right at the very beginning. Uh And and it kind of sets the stage for this this ongoing plot threat of manipulation, of people being manipulated, mostly by of course Lex Luthor, but medium manipulation. You know, everyone's being manipulated, and ultimately the manipulation climaxes in the

showdown between Batman and Superman. But but but I think you're right in that Africa subplot. Another interesting aspect of it is this this thread that's you kind of see in the movie pop pop up from time to time, which is this idea of um, third world countries or countries predominantly populated by people of color being kind of used as props for the for the whims of these well wealthy white people. Yeah, you know, it's it's it's

very much in there, I think. And the way the woman who gives the false testimony that she saw Superman destroy the village, and then of course later you learn that she's being basically threatened by Lex Luthor's goons to to give this false testimony. Yeah, and I mean, let's talk about Lex for a second. Do you what did you think about Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Man. He's he

just goes for broke. It's so goofy that I do kind of admire it, and I think it's Honestly, I think it's great casting because he's basically playing like this West Coast tech billionaire and he's played by the same guy who played Mark Zuckerberg in the Social Network. It's hard to ignore those two that link. Um maybe a little shade being thrown there. I don't know with casting. Um, I love Jesse Eisenberg a lot as an actor, but

him has Lex sort of bugged me a little. Um, the sort of twitchy tech bro bugged me maybe because I just don't like that kind of person that much in real life. But um, I didn't love him, like I give him credit for really going for it. Uh. And I think the idea here is that he's Lex Jr. Right, Yeah, so he's not even the main guy, right Okay, Yeah, I think so. Yeah, because he references his dad a few times. Uh. So that's an interesting spin on it too, that Lex Jr. Is Is trying to um essentially the

the whole driving force of the film. Is him sort of orchestrating this battle where and this is where I just have a few not problems, but questions. Is he what's his endgame here? Is he orchestrating this battle? Who does he want dead? Both of them? It's a good question. Um, I think he so what what is what threatens him? I think he's threatened by the idea that there's somebody more powerful than him. Yeah, and so I think probably he's he's more afraid of Superman in the end. I

think so for sure. And so what he's trying to do by getting Superman to fight Batman and kill him is to show the world that Superman is not all good, because he keeps saying, you know, there's no such thing as power. With power cannot be innocent, is what he says. Yeah, like you can't be all powerful and all good. He says that two or three different times, different versions of

that same thing. Yeah, And it's you know, talking about him being Lex Jr. There's at least one or two lines where he mentions like his dad being abusive, and so again here's another character with daddy issues. But you know, if if as a child he saw this his dad as his this all powerful person who is very far from good. I'm not saying I certainly not saying I understand I sympathize with Lex Luthor, but I you can at least understand why somebody would be twisted into thinking

that way. Yeah. I mean there's a lot of dad stuff going on in this movie, because you've got I mean, all three of the male leads have daddy issues, whether it's Bruce never knowing his father to Clark and his his dad was kind of the opposite. He was almost pure goodness. Um, and then Lex, you know, had this

I guess, abusive, evil villain dad. Yeah, And so he's, you know, he's he doesn't trust power basically, and he's somebody who's one of the most powerful people in the world until Superman comes along, and so of course he wants to he he knows he can't defeat Superman by fighting him. Yeah, so he has to get the world to distrust Superman and turn against him. I think it works. So, so that's his endgame. But what about uh, and we're you know, we can jump all around here at the

end with the super Zod Beast Doomsday. Oh, is that what it's called. I think so yeah, And I think Doomsday is a sorry for any comic people out there who are shaking their heads right now, but Doomsday is like a character from the comics. From the comics. Okay, well that makes more sense because at the end, during that battle, which was pretty cool, I was like, well, what's his endgame here? Like can he control uh Doomsday? And like what happens, Like let's say Doomsday kills everybody?

Then does he just like you know, say all right, come on back to your to your doghouse and get in there. Here's your treat Like does he have control? I can't. I couldn't figure that part out. M I don't know if it's made explicitly clear, but I think the idea is that he kind of controls him because you know, he like he cuts his own hand when he's giving birth to do Doomsday, so it's like blood

of my blood. So I think the idea is like he's the father to Doomsday, and so Doomsday in theory listen to it, to his commands, and maybe that's maybe he that's why he keeps going after Superman because Lex is like kill him, kill him. I don't know. Right. Um. The other cool thing that happens in this movie is you get the setup of the Justice League and uh,

some pretty badass Wonder Woman stuff. Um, and you know, it's teased out at at sort of the first third when Diana is at the at Lex Luthor's um benefit and steals Bruce Wayne's a little you know, tech device and gets away and he's like, who is this lady? Um? And then you know, we get the files of a flash an Aquaman and who was the other one the one at Cyborg No, yeah, I don't know his name, but he's some cyborg guy bionic man. Sorry, comic book fans are so mad at us right now. But I mean,

come on, did you see Justice League? No? I haven't seen Justice League, And so part of the reach is your deal? Why is this your favorite movie? I'm I'm waiting for the potential of a Snyder cut to come out. Oh good lord, you want the three hour version. But see, so it's interesting because this this was actually the the one week part of the movie was all the little teases of Justice League minus minus Wonder Woman, because she's

actually part of the story of this movie. Like it felt kind of obvious that Okay, we're gonna stop the movie for a second so we can tease out the next movie. Yeah. I mean that was clearly going on, but I forgave it of that because you know, it was just that they had to do it. It's sort of like housekeeping. They're like, you know this, I mean,

this is called Dawn of Justice. So the implication is is that these are the events that led to the formation of the Justice League, which is what happens at the end. So Batman figures out this whole white Portuguese Kryptonite plan and that's uh, that's one of the big through lines through this thing is is is kryptonite This big chunk of kryptonite is discovered and who has got

their hands on it? And he's very much playing Batman against Um ultimately what ends up being against his own interests with this whole kryptonite stuff, making kryptonite weapons to battle Superman. Uh. The other thing I didn't quite get was when he created At one point in the movie, did he he create uh super Beast? Was that that was as the fight was going on or before I think he started to create him, because you see him lower Odd's dead body into that goo yeah, he starts

to create him earlier than that. I think maybe as like an insurance policy in case the Superman Batman fight doesn't go the way he's hoping. Yeah. I mean, let's talk about the fight, did you It seemed a little anticlimactic to me, um upon second viewing, because it's built up as Batman versus Superman the whole movie. They're sort of driving toward each other, and then the battle itself is like ten or eleven minutes long, and it's you know, it's not It's not like I thought it was terrible.

I thought they executed it fairly well, but it had a little bit of an anticlimactic feel for me. Do you wish it was maybe ten minutes longer? Check, I don't know about longer, but I'm just kidding. I don't know. They fight and hit each other a bunch, and at the end, save Martha is is you know what kind

of ends it all, and then they're they're bros. So I agree with you, I think, Um, I don't know if the fight is meant to be like satisfying though, you know, because we know we know they're probably not going to one person is not going to kill the other. So there's a sense of like we're just waiting for something to happen to end this fight. Yeah, it's kind

of like the fight in Captain America's Civil War. It's good guys fighting good guys, and we know nobody's really going to die, and so I think that might be part of it. It's almost like the Matrix Uh sequels.

Once everybody was so powerful, I felt like a lot of those fight sequences didn't have the stakes that they needed, right And I think in this one, though, it's interesting because I think, even though that that actual physical fight doesn't happen until near the end, there's sort of a battle of ideologies going all throughout the movie, and so when we get to the actual fight, for me at least, it's less about you know, who's gonna win and who's gonna get the best punches in and more about like

these two ideologies that are both at their breaking point, who's going to give first? And of course the moment that happens is the Martha sequence, which a lot of people make fun of. Yeah, Like a lot of people say it's cheesy and like, oh my gosh, he changes his whole mind because of hearing that his mom has the same name as as his own mom. And I get that. It's it's I get that, I get that it's it's a little cheesy, it's it's this weirdly like

sentimental note in this ultimately grim movie. But I think that moment for me works on less of a literal level and more of a symbolic level, in the sense that at um Batman, the thing that makes Batman finally change how he feels is that he can finally recognize himself in the other, in this alien Yeah, that didn't

bother me too much. Actually, Uh, I thought I thought that worked well, um, because like you know, they really established with the up Team three telling you know, re re showing of of what happened to Bruce's parents at the beginning, you know, getting shot after the theater by

by by Joker or who ends up being Joker. Um. So it's like it's really you really get the sense of his pain of losing his parents and that it's sort of that rage that like when someone's in a rage and like one word can snap someone out of it,

and that word being his mom's name. And then I think Amy Adams rushing in there really helps because Amy Adams is the best and she um as an actor, so she really like she grounds this movie in a lot of ways, I think, because her acting is so good always, and so when she comes in and she's like, that's his mother's name, that's his mother's name. I thought that worked. I liked it. That's that's a really good Uh.

I really like that interpretation of at least how how it affected you in terms of somebody who can be in a ray of blind rage and then one like trigger word can diffuse it. I hadn't really thought of it in that, but I like that a lot. Yeah. Yeah, Well it's almost like the um when someone's in a hypnotic trance and there's like the safe word or whatever that snaps them back out. Uh. So I thought it worked, you know, I don't. I don't. I don't agree with

that criticism me neither. Uh. Let's talk about some of the better action sequences. Um. We get a really sweet to batmobile sequence in this movie. Uh. It's and one of the citizens of Snyder is that his movies are too dark literally lighting wise, and you can't always see stuff like you want. I did want to see a little bit more of this Batmobile because it looks so freaking cool and it was a new batmobile. But I thought that that chase sequence was pretty awesome when they're

you know, when he's trying to get the kryptonite. Yeah, I agree, I think uh Snyder. Yeah, it's it's a fair criticism of of of Snyder in general is that the way he directed action can be a little muddled. Perhaps, I think he does a pretty good job here. Um and that that chase sequence, Yeah, that's definitely one of the high points action wise of the earl ish on

in the movie. And also the fact that it kind of ends with Superman just basically being like, uh uh no, you can't go any further Batman or else, so I'm gonna come hurt you, which I really liked. Well. Yeah, I mean, you know, we should talk about Batman being immortal. H a mortal not immortal, Um, that that plays throughout Batman movies. Uh. He's a rich guy with a lot of gadgets who is has has worked out with weights

a lot and trained to fight, but he is a dude. Um. And it really comes through in this movie, like the Stark difference a few times. Um. One is in the Batman Superman fight. You know, Superman was like, I could have killed you already, like you realize this. At any point he could just snap his neck with his fingertips, but he doesn't. And Batman is he's got all the tricks, but he's clearly outmatched all throughout this movie, especially there

and then the final big, big battle. You can tell he's sort of like alright, like, uh, super beings, you know, wonder Woman, Superman, You're gonna need to handle most of this because I'm just trying to get the funk out of the way with all my winches and cables pulling

me out of the way. There. Yeah, there's a there's a great moment when they're fighting dooms Day where Doomsday like uh charges up and is about to blast him with some energy blast and Superman and Wonder Woman both like just stand their ground and Batman just dives like under a piece of debris. Yeah. Yeah, I mean he's

the guy that has to hide at certain points. Um. You know there's that when the Wonder Woman entrance is great because you know, the Batmobile is crashed and you see Doomsday coming and and he literally says, oh shit, he knows he's done for and that's where where Wonder Woman comes in, and you know, pretty powerful way to introduce her in a fight scene. And and the music her music's que that that that kind of metal guitar sounding which is kind of cheesy but works so well.

I like it. I like it a lot. It's it's a really when I every time that sequence hits, I find it very affecting, just totally her entrance. I think it's a great way to introduce her into the movie and ultimately to the universe of of well of the DC universe. Yeah, when was the night teen eight four movies supposed to come out? The wonder the New Wonder Woman this summer July maybe, and I think it's I don't know if it's beneficially delayed yet or not. Yeah,

I'm kind of wondering about that. I was really looking forward to that movie because that first Wonder Woman was just so good And I think gal Ga Dot is is it good Dot or goodot is? Yes? Okay, Yeah, I think she's terrific she. I think she just kind

of owns that character. Um, we get the other subplot going, which is and it's all you know, all kind of tied together but lex using the guy who lost his legs the um, I guess he worked for Bruce Wayne, and Bruce Wayne had been sending him this money and he had been rejecting them, rejecting these checks, and he manipulates him into sacrificing himself. And there's that great moment when Amy Adams sees that fridge full of food and she's like, he didn't know, you know, he didn't know

that he was being used. Basically, yeah, he's I think Scoot McNary is the actor who plays him that guy. Yeah, it's it's a really great use of the character. And again earlier how he talked about sort of the people, you know, people of color being manipulated against Superman and Batman. Also, you could kind of put his character in there. Who's you know, who's who's somebody with a physical disability, Who's

who's also sort of economically depressed. He know, he loses his legs, he loses his job, he loses his family. He has a lot of anger here, and so that anger is exploited by this rich, rich billionaire. Again, it's

really it's really fascinating. I think, yeah, and you know he uh, and the whole time you know, the one thing I do like about Lex in this movie is that in true like Lex Luthor was always um rich and super smart, like that was his superpower, was that he was always one step of ahead of everyone with his diabolical schemes, and that still plays out here and that he is he's always playing one side against the other and manipulation at every single turn, whether it's the

media or or Scoot mcnary's character or Batman. Um, it's really like true to to who Lex Luthor as a character has always been one small detail I like that kind of goes into that is how um he knows the identities of both Superman and Batman, for it seems like most of the movie, and yet we never we never get a scene where he figures out who they really are. It's just kind of assumed. It's assumed rightly.

I think that somebody with his wealth and resources would have no trouble figuring out who these guys really are. I mean, if you're like the guy who started Face, look, you can probably figure out anybody's identity, you know. Well yeah, and of course you know the funny age old criticism of Superman is, you know Clark Kent puts us glasses on, and yeah, it's like, who is that guy? And comes his gelss hair and then he's suddenly yeah, who was

that superbuff reporter cub reporter. Um, yeah, I think Amy Adams this is some of the best lowest lane stuff that I've seen in any of the Superman movies. She really is just a likable actor and I think, um, the most empowered lowest of all the movies, which is an important trade. I think here, Yeah, she's she's great in this and I think, you know, she's she really grounds this movie. And she's kind of the only main

character who's who's more or less a regular person. Yeah, you know, everybody else are these larger than life mythic gods or super wealthy people. But she's kind of the our entry into seeing this world from quote unquote the average person's perspective. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And she also recognizes at some point, um, she figures out that she is kind of part of the problem in that she's in love with Clark and Superman, and that is very much a um a week point for Superman because and

it's happened in a bunch of the movies. If you want to distract soups. Just put Lois in danger and he'll go leave whatever the funk he's doing to go help. Yeah. I mean that's the whole Africa sequence at the beginning is orchestrated because Lex knows that Superman will be there if if Lois is in danger, you know. Yeah. And I think that's also when we get to sort of the climax of and I'm jumping ahead a little bit here, but of Superman taking on Doomsday and and deficing himself.

You know, so much of this movie is about Superman kind of losing his faith in humanity and humanity losing their faith in somebody like Superman. And right before he goes to fight Doomsday, there's a small moment with with Lois where she kind of knows this is this might be it. They both know this might be it, and um,

he says, uh, this is my world. You are my world, and he kind of it's in that moment I think he kind of accepts his role of what he needs to be for humanity, which is unfortunately kind of it's a hero but also it's like a sacrifice, right, But he gives himself freely because he loves Lois and through

Lowest it's like loving the world. It's kind of it's almost like in the Matrix how in the sequels, where it's like Neo choosing between loving one person Trinity or loving humanity, and how they kind of are the same thing, right, but also oftentimes in conflict. Um, you know, he's he's And this wasn't just in this movie, Like I was saying, in most of the Superman movies he is faced with the choice of save Lois or save a larger population

of people. Or the Spider Man movies too with kind of do the same thing with Mary Jane or Gwen Stacy. You know, it's like how do you how do you have how do you be the hero but also have uh ties to close ties to people you care about when those could be exploited. Yeah, I mean that's sort of the classic superhero conundrum. Um, I guess we don't really get that. Batman is a little bit different. Uh we never really see Batman have a love interest in

that way, do we Definitely not in this movie. Um, I guess in the Dark Night, you know, uh, Maggie Jillenhall, Yeah, that's true. Actually I forgot about that. She is. I think it's the same situation where she's being held hostage and he's got to choose between saving her or saving some people, and she ultimately dies. I think, yeah, she dies in that, but at least in far in terms of this movie, No, he kind of doesn't really have

any ties to to anybody. Yeah, and that's sort of one of the things with Batman is that he is he is the dark Knight. He is uh. I don't know about if selfish is the right word, but he's not Superman. You never get the idea with Batman, or at least I don't that he's um fighting crime for the good of Gotham. It always feels like he's fighting crime because of this darkness and revenge that exists within him. And a side effect is that he's helping to clean

up Gotham. Yeah. Absolutely, and that's that's again what makes him such a it's such a it's kind of weird about it's kind of weird how popular he is in terms of superheroes when he has this. I guess maybe it just shows that we kind of like our heroes to be anti heroes a little bit. Um. But in this movie, it goes like it does that to like the nth degree. Um. So, there's a line he says to Alfred in this movie, and I have it written

down here. He says, if we believe there's even a one percent chance that he is our enemy, we have to take it as an absolute certainty. Yeah, he says that to to Alfred. And I've got another quote here from somebody in the real world that I'm going to read. Do you know what this quote is going to be? Um? No, but I feel like I should know. Okay, Well, all right,

So this is a real world quote quote. If there's a one percent chance that Pakistani scientists are helping al Qaeda build or develop a nuclear weapon, we have to treat it, treat it as a certainty in terms of our response. And that is Dick Cheney. So Batman literally quotes Dick Cheney in his reasoning for hunting down Superman. Wow, that's a nice find. I'm sure that was no accident. No accident, no accident. Yeah. Interesting, I never I never

picked up on that. So towards the end, you know, you get this great, uh, great sequence where Lois has taken and Mama Kent is taken, Martha Kent and this is you know, uh, this is all the set up for Batman to fight Superman. You've got Batman forging these crypto cryptanotic weapons. Is that a word? It is? Now? Uh?

And you know there's always and all the Superman movies, there's always this great moment I feel like where he's about to be able to do away with a bad guy and they're like, but wait, um, we have your mom or if you do that, then this will happen. You can't kill me is I'm the only one that knows x uh. And I think they play that really well in this movie after they had kidnapped Martha. I mean, it's kind of it's kind of begs the question of how do you what what what weakness does somebody with

godlike powers have? Like you can't take him down with brute force, how else do you get to him? And it's ultimately it's which makes makes it really interesting. His his his love for his mother, which his kind of his ties to basic humanity are his weakness. Yeah, which is interesting because Superman is an alien, you know, lest we forget, and that's sort of always been the the conundrum of Superman is he is this alien who has

come to Earth and experienced human love and emotion. You know, one thing I have written down in my notes next to Superman being an alien is in parentheses, I wrote, A K A is an immigrant. Oh, and I just want to I want to throw that out there as Superman being the ultimate immigrant story, which, thus you could say, reveals Batman to be maybe something of a bigot, a

fearful bigot, fearing what he doesn't understand. I think this is intentional because you know, when he that sequence at the Capitol when the build Luther blows the building up, when Superman first arrives there, we see these protesters outside and they've got the signs that say like Superman equals alien and go back to your planet blah blah blah. I mean that's that could be a scene from real life,

you know, totally Yeah. And you see you kind of both sides there too, and those scenes with the mob crowds that there are the Superman fanatics standing, you know, side by side with the people that are against Superman. Uh. And I think that is I think they do a good job in presenting It's not very black and white. Um. Eventually, the media, and I think especially after the bombing of the Senate hearing or whatever. That's when I think the

public perception really takes a turn. But they play it realistically up until that point of he's still going to have his die hard UH fanatics, but he's also gonna and again it's like how that mirrors real life and what goes on. UM not to name Chicken e like current politicians, but uh, there are certain politicians out there today that there's literally nothing they could do that would

sway their base to think otherwise. I mean, it's true, and it's interesting that we're we're talking about we're kind of making a comparison between that and Superman in this movie. It's not necessarily a one to one comparison, but I mean, you know, these questions are these these parallels are intentionally presented in the film, I think, Um, and you know

that's scene at the Capital. For me, I think that's see occurs roughly halfway into the movie, like about an hour and a half through, and to me, like, I think that's a really great sequence, and to me, the whole movie up until that point is building to that sequence, and that scene is kind of like all these plot narrative threads converging at this capital Senate hearing or whatever where it's will Superman show up? How do we address somebody who has god like powers in the world? Should

this person have uh checks on his power? And I think, you know, we haven't really talked about Holly Hunter's character too much yet. Yea and always and and she yeah, agree, And I think she kind of represents the failures of government to not not that she herself as a failure, but the fact that government and democracy can't really doesn't

really have a solution to God's walking among us. You know, there's just no way they can deal with it, even though they try and give lip service to dead you have talking to people and hearing ideas, right, Yeah, for sure, And um, you know that's a very I love the way they played the scene out with Lex planting that, you know, Granny's peach t or whatever, which was I guess his piss, right, I think, so, yeah, there's only

one way to read that. And uh yeah, that moment was really really pretty great because I hadn't and in fact, I had forgotten about a lot of this movie, but I did not put that all together that he was actually using Scoot mcnary's character with that uh Kryptonite slash

bomb wheelchair. Yeah, and there's a really great moment there where the building starts to explode and the room like becomes a fireball, and yet Superman is kind of at the center of the frame because he's obviously not hurt by it, and you can see he I think he just sort of closes his eyes and he he just has this look of pain, like, oh my gosh, I might you know, all these people around me are dying

and I'm fine, but also I might be responsible for this. Yeah, like I I walked into a trap that I should have seen. And he has that great line with Lois where he says, maybe I didn't I wasn't looking forward or something. Yeah. Yeah, that's seen on the balcony right afterwards with Lois at her hotel, and there's a really nice exchange there too, where she says, you know, he talks about how Superman was just a farmer's dream, and she says that dream is all some people have. It

gives them hope. And then she like touches the the insignia on his chest the s and she says this means something, and he says it did on my world, but my world doesn't exist anymore, and it's just like the lowest of the low point. That's where he kind of leaves and goes on his vision quest to you know, the Himalayas or whatever. But he kind of decides to abandon humanity, you know. Yeah, and I think that stuff works. Um.

I like him. I think he's been a good Superman. Um. I didn't know a lot about him as an actor before this, but I think he's been a good soups better than the previous guy that did just the one film, Brandon Ralph. I think, I think Caville has been really pretty solid. Uh, he's got the look, he's he's great as Clark. I think he pulls it off as an actor. So he's he's he's one of my favorite Superman. Agreed, Yeah, I think he's really good. Um. And you know, like

I said, how did you feel about about Affleck? How do I guess I'd sort of dodged that earlier. He wasn't bad. I think it was just, um, there's so much baggage with Ben Affleck as a human that it was hard for me to sort of unwind all that and accept him. But you know, seeing this today, he wasn't bad. He wasn't I thought. I think he's okay. I'm glad to see them moving on. I think it's interesting that he did not get his own because it was just this Injustice League, right, He's Uh, those are

the only two appearances, so there was no standalone Batman film. Uh, unless you count this, which I don't really account. This is a Batman movie. But he was he was okay. I'll cop out and just say he was fine. I mean, I much preferred Christian Bale. I'm excited about what Pattinson is going to bring because I think he's a hell of an actor and I'm really interested. He seems a little small, but I'm interesting to see how they bulk

him up for this thing. Yeah, I'm I'm really excited, cautiously excited for for pat I mean for the movie, but really excited for for Pattinson because he's I mean, we know he's a great actor. He always does interesting work. Yeah, totally, and if nothing else, at least the paycheck he gets from Batman will allow him to be in more like Safty Brothers. Yeah, exactly more. Who is making that one? I know, I know this, it's uh Matt Reeves, Oh right, right, right, sure,

we do the job. Who what else did he do he did? Uh? Oh? Do think he planeted the Apes, Dawn at the Plant, the Apes, and clover Field. Clover Field was his first movie, I think, yeah, that's where he got to start and War for the so two Planet of the Apes movies, let the let Me both good. Yeah. I like those a lot. Yeah. Uh, and I think Let Me In was a pretty good adaptation of a very very good foreign film. I would agree with that. Yeah. Hard hard to adapt a movie that's uh, that's pretty

great in my opinion. But they did a solid job. No, I agree, Yeah, that'll be good. When is that supposed to come out? Well, I think I can look it up real quick. Um, I know it's been filming has been put on hold because of coronavirus. October one is the current date. Oh interesting, So it's gonna be a while. Yeah, so a year and a half from an hour or so, And that's if it all goes as planned. It's not.

But man, the cast though, is stack You got Paul dan Out, Colin Farrell, Dano's Riddler, right, Yes, that's yeah, I mean those are those are quality actors, so they're all to a good start. And Colin Farrell is the penguin. I forgot about that. Oh interesting, Yeah, I would think I I wouldn't have minded seeing a stand alone Batman with Benefleck, just because I don't think it's really fair to not give him one and and rate him against other Batman Man because he didn't get his He didn't

get that full sort of shining moment. Yeah, I mean if this is his soul outing, well not a soul outing because of Justice League, but it's certainly not h yeah, shining example of Batman in terms of how his characters depicted. But I think that's why I like him, because I think he sells the the anger, the angry Batman really well.

And also because he's angry but he's also a billionaire, which for some reason, I feel like maybe this is me reading into Ben Affleck as a person, but I feel like I can buy that like a rich person who's also angry. Well, and the drinking and stuff. I mean, there there are some parallels with his life, uh in real life in this role that he's taken on um with a you know, potentially alcoholism as Bruce Wayne because Jeremy Irons, who was great as Alfred by the way,

I would think he was a great choice. Um, not quite Michael Caine, but a good you know yeah, no, no, no shame and Jeremy Irons at all. Uh, And he does a good job as Alfred in this and that he's always uh part of Alfred is always been to be his caretaker and uh he makes a lot out of a little I think in this movie in that way. Yeah,

and he's also kind of Batman's conscience. He's kind of is he's a father figure, and he's part of the better angels who are in this movie constantly trying to hold you know, push him back from the from the ledge, so to speak, which he he does really well. But it's also interesting, how you know, we talked about Batman's

alcoholism in this movie. There are quite a few scenes at least a couple where you see Alfred like out at the control center but also nursing a Scotch And you know, it's never really there's not never really much read into it, but I think you might be able to assume that Alfred has had his fair share of days where he's got to have a drink after learning what what Bruce did that day or something? For sure? Uh, what else you got, dude? What's in your little note stash? Um?

I mean I exhausted. We covered a lot of it, I think, Oh, here's here's one. Um, there are a few kind of dream sequences in this. There's one extended one which has been I guess dubbed the Nightmare Night with a K, where it's Batman in this desert world and um, it's really like this like Mad Max post apocalyptic world where he's obviously it's a dream sequence, but he sees he's trying to do some mission and he gets betrayed by all these these guards dressed with Superman

insignia's on their arms. Yeah, those and those waspy flying creatures and those, and it's it's actually kind of terrifying as a sequence because you see how how fearful he is of of Superman and the fact that these these soldiers are kind of dressed almost like these not Nazi esque uniforms, like these s S uniforms are something. And then Superman shows up, and especially when these like alien

bugs show up. And maybe I'm reading too much into this, but the way again if we see Superman as an alien slash immigrant, the way US immigrants have been portrayed as less than human in the past and present, especially with words used like infestation to describe immigrants, and here we literally see like alien bug creatures. Again, I'm reading a lot into this, but I think it it's a fair interpretation. No, I think so too. I mean, if you're gonna, if you're gonna go there like you have,

you gotta go all the way with the political uh intrigue. Um. The other interesting thing is you see Superman really angry a few times in this movie, which is a bit of a change of pace. Soups is generally pretty pretty level, and you see some real rage come out a couple of times, and I think it really works for this film. Yeah, I would agree. And again it's it's probably one of those reasons why people didn't necessarily respond to this movie very strongly. But we don't like to see our heroes

falter right or lose lose their their mojo. They're they're will to do what they do. And I think, to me, that's why this movie, why I find this movie so interesting, is because it seems to reckon with the idea of superheroes in a world that looks like our real world, you know, and the answers aren't satisfying. The answers are kind of depressing, Like this is a very despondent, depressing movie,

you know. Yeah. I mean that's been one of the knocks on Snyder's world in the DC world, as literal darkness, uh, and the way he shoots things and figurative darkness. Whereas Marvel movies are color and light uh, a lot of daytime stuff. Snyder has got a lot of nighttime, rainy night stuff, and all his movies that sort of gray

um gray look on the color wheel. But you know, the guy has a an aesthetic and he has stuck to it, man, And that's that's why I gotta respect it too, because again, like I said at the top, like this feels like his movie, Like this feels like the movie he wanted to make. Whether or not you like it or not, that's that's, you know, another question. But it didn't feel like somebody was like a corporate boardroom for the most part, was mandating it has to

look like this. You have to outsource your action sequences to this committee. You know. Yeah, yeah, No, totally. It's it's his movie and he's not. I mean, this isn't light fair, He's he's he is going for something pretty weighty for a superhero movie, the themes and the tones um. And I think Marvel does that pretty successfully as well. Despite the the brighter overall feel a lot more laughs

in in Marvel movies, um, like infinitely more laughs. It is funny when this movie like three times maybe tries to give you a few like Marvel esques jokes very few times, very few times. But yeah, I kind of just like shake my head. I'm like, they're trying, but you know, I appreciate the effort, but this is not

your strong suit. Yeah, and you know, I ultimately obviously love the Marvel films a lot more, but um, I credit them for not just trying to ape what Marvel has done and for having their own vision and just being like, you know what, We're not going to try and do what they're doing. We're gonna do our own thing. Uh. It's gonna be a lot darker, um and a lot heavier. And if people like it, they like it, and if

they don't, they don't. Yeah, And so I can you know, I'm sure when people listen to this episode, there's gonna be a lot of debate if we're whether or not we're off a rocker some people, a lot of people hated this movie, and you know that's fair. But I feel like, whether or not, even if you hate this movie, I think you you at least got a respect that they did something different and went with a vision. However

flawed that vision might have been. Yeah. Absolutely. Um, I'm curious what what's going on in the DC world next. I haven't really followed. I did see the Aquaman movie, which was okay, not terrible. I saw it, Yeah, I saw it on a plane, kind of felt the same way. Yeah, it was fine, it was all right. He was a little too surf bro for me. Yeah, yeah, I agreed, but but it wasn't bad. Um, do you know what's in store? I mean, obviously the Wonder Woman stuff is

is the best of DC. Yeah, Wonder Woman would be next. Uh, and then I guess the patents in Batman. Oh right, yeah, that counts. Um. I don't know if they're or any other sequels on the way. I'd have to like a Justice League sequel or if um. If I don't know what Snyder's deal is either if he's if he's now

he might be done leaving it. Has he done? I think maybe so, But you know it's I think part of that too is they maybe they were planning for way more, way more of an expanded universe, but some of these movies didn't perform that well at the box office, so I think they might have canned some of them. Um, it's funny. I have the I have this movie on blue ray, actually the Ultimate edition, and the cover the box cover is Batman and Superman and then in the

middle is wonder Woman. She's like given prominent bill, the top billing in terms of the picture, even though she's in this movie for like twenty minutes. Yeah, well that's because Galgadat is gorgeous and put her on a movie poster and that doesn't hurt. And the fact that Wonder Woman is one of their six it did so well some one of their success stories. You know. Yeah. I had to buy this too because the Ultimate Edition was not rentable on iTunes, so I now own this thanks

to you man. That warms my heart. I appreciate that they pay ten bucks, that's fine. I do recommend that people watch the Ultimate edition, it was definitely a richer film than the two and a hour two and a half hour version. Is sometimes when you see the big three hour director's cut, it feels bloated. And while it was certainly long, it made more sense for this movie to be three hours long than two and a half. Yeah,

I will say that. And uh, just kind of one of the final thoughts I had on this movie looking at my notes here is um the the ending right after Superman sacrifices himself and we see that the funerals to funerals that are cross cut with each other, and at the funeral in Kansas, Galga Dot has this really kind of haunting line where they where she says they don't know how to honor him except as a soldier. Yeah, and that's it's a great line. It's kind of ambiguous.

I guess what it's it's getting at is like that we only embrace Superman now that he's dead and has saved everyone. He's given himself freely to us. Uh, And maybe the idea that we only can especially America, can only think of bravery and heroism in terms of like war and combat, and that's what we hold up is like the highest ideal of of goodness is the ability to fight, which is kind of a sad, sad truth. Yeah,

the ability to fight. And um and you know, there there's a a large part of this country that, uh, sacrificing your life for the freedom of others is the ultimate martyrdom mm hmm. And and of course I'm not knocking the idea of that at all, but I think in terms of like our our culture, this idea of that the only show of strength. There's stud fighting and violence. I guess this sort of classically traditional masculine ideal, which I think the movie acknowledges, is being kind of messed up,

you know. Yeah. I mean there is no superhero called the Mediator, you know, not yet. I think we just a birthnight. What do they do? They just talk things out in a reasonable manner, but they wear a cape while they do it. Yeah, I like that. I like that a lot. Alright, dude, Well, I enjoyed this conversation. It's good seeing you, Yeah, YouTube man, and thanks for like I said, thanks for indulging me on this. I'm glad you. Uh you found some good stuff in it too, Yeah, yeah,

I did. I liked it much more this time around. Yeah, and I think, like I said at the top, it's just such an interesting movie to dig into, even if you don't like it. It's just playing with so many themes here. Like, let me put it this way, like if I was still in college, this would be a movie I could write like a ten page essay on for one of my film studies classes, you know, just because it's so dense with with interpretation. Yeah, the old film studies paper. I don't miss what is Casey as

Casey seen this. No, I've told him about it, though he does want to watch it at some point, just because I've told him about how it's It's much more interesting than you might expect going in He's take, he'll watch it at some point. I think, well, all right, brother, we will get a round table going soon, and then we want to talk about um last Jedi. Yeah, I've been hounding you about that. Yeah, and I think I

promised that to other people as well. So maybe we'll get like you and Holly and maybe one other uh, maybe Annie or somebody, and we'll see if we can get a little skype zoom or something with all of us in the virtual room together that sounds fun. Man, I'm looking forward to it, all right. Will you take care of yourself? And thanks to everyone for listening. Check out the Ultimate edition of Batman Versus Superman Colin Dawn of Justice Colin Ultimate Edition three hours. But what else

you got to do? Right? All right? Thanks everybody. We'll talk to you next week. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows