Minnie Driver on Tootsie

those these days. I think it is maybe that the whole notion of um conversing with each other in these times of separation. UM, maybe it'll be like a whole new thing, a whole new thing moving forward with a better normal. Right, Yeah, I mean that is that a description of evolution? I'm on some level, you know, moving forward with a with a better normal. Yeah, I mean it's your feels like we've got to get slingshot into

something something else and hopefully better. Yeah. And just to put that in context, everybody, Uh, the day that we're recording is uh, the twenty one of January, the day after Joe Biden has President Joe Biden has taken office, and we stopped recording yesterday about an hour before the inauguration, and uh, you know, I know everything is still sort of the same for now, but it sure feels more positive to me. To me too, I found it very moving.

Not j Loo. I didn't find Jlo moving. I found Jlo like fabulous, But I found it to be extraordinarily moving. Seeing seeing Doug m Hoff holding the Bible for Kamala Harris, seeing a man holding the Bible for a woman being sworn in, it just did something for me, the little girl that I was, the interested in politics person. It felt like we really were carving a new path. So that was very exciting. Did you see her in the Senate when she had to announce her own resignation, I

was very funny. I didn't. I didn't see it. I read the opera that she wrote in the San Francisco Chronicle, but I didn't. Why what happened, Well, I mean just for as far as official business. She had to resign from the Senate and as Vice president, and I think had to announce the new uh not the new hirings. I mean it's not a Fortune five company, but had to announce the new um like we're knocking ass off, and then who was who was coming in, who was leaving?

And she had to announce, you know, Kamala Harris uh resigns from the Senate. And then she just started cracking up and said that was really weird. She just got such a great smile and personality, like human human. She not a she not a a strange automaton. She a human person. She is human and a boy how about Lady Gaga? Wasn't that great? Oh my gosh, you know my boyfriend, my boyfriend's mom. She was like, oh, I didn't you think Madonna was great? Adorable? That was Lady Gaga.

She was like, well, you know, she was fabulous too. It was human. I mean, that was It was some strange, beautiful pageantry, but truly beyond President Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, that that day belonged to Amanda Gorman. That that woman is one of the most I had the

pleasure of hearing her. I was am seeing an event for women, a women's event a couple of years ago, and she she came and she I don't know what the correct way of saying what she does because reciting her poetry seems super formal and weird, and I'm I'm not cool enough to sort of say that whatever the kids would say that. I watched her and there is there's something incandescent about her because she is so connected to what she is saying, not to the effect that

it's having. I mean, as a performer, you get a pretty you get a pretty clear nose for when someone is trying to manipulate an audience, and that girl is just connected to something that articulates truth and beauty in a way that I've rarely come across. She is magnificent and she looked fine. I mean it was a look great and just um. I don't know when anyone starts to get down on generations to come behind them, I get really, I mean, it's easy to dunk on millennials

and gen Z or whatever they're calling everything. But I have great hope for the future, and I think they're they're doing it better than than gen X did. I mean, I'm proud gen X her, but I don't know, we were pretty lazy and slightly hungover gen X. I feel fit, yeah, I mean I feel like the most I did was like overpluck my eyebrows. It feels like, really that's my signature, like a lot of really dark red lipstick, thin eyebrows, and like a bad attitude. I'm like watching a lot

of Ethan Hawk movies. Well it seems bad. Who didn't, were you goss ever? No? Hell No, I had crazy hair. I was my nickname at school was Slash, like I had. I looked bananas. I look like a firework. It exploded on my head. But that's the best here though. I know it gives and it takes, give it and take it away. But you did have the confidence to pull it off. Like I really, I looked like a muppet.

I was called animal. I was called Slash. And there's this there's this hexagonal coin that we have in England called a fifty p which is basically like fifty cents. And I was called fifty face because I've got this this really the best face. Well, thank you so much. I mean, you know, you know my face, but it's it's definitely got a you know, super kind of well apparently hexagonal. Um. But yeah, kids, kids totally are you know, kids are awful, and but they they give you something

to push up against. I mean, if you're lucky and they don't kill you. Where was this going to Was in m in deepest darkest England, in the countryside, at this truly amazing school that I went to that I have to say, you know, for all of them, for all of the names and the whatever. It was the the absolute breeding ground of everything that I love and everything that I've been able to do in my life. So, um, yeah, I loved my school. No, not at all, but it was.

It was very progressive and when we were there, we were about self sufficient, so we did a lot of um uh, taking care of the animals, taking care of the farm buildings. You would have what's called outdoor work as part of your curriculum, so you'd have double maths and then you'd have outdoor work where you'd be on a tractor setting up whatever fields were going to have

crops planted in them, um, picking fruit in the summer. Um. And it's there's this amazing pottery so you would go and when plates and bowls were broken, you would go and make more, and then you'd go and have a math class. And it was super academic but also um, very very much community orientated and about teaching you about being in the world and skills other than mathematics, reading and science, which of course obvious really important. But I spent a lot of time in the fields. Yeah it

was great. Do you still have a connection to the country in nature? And yeah, huge, huge, I'm it's that's my that is my church. The ocean and and being out in nature is pretty much everything. It's where I really like to be all of the time. UM. Clear that up. Do you like to go camping or do you like sitting on a a lovely verandah overlooking the countryside. I mean, I'll do but I love camping. I love camping,

but I really like being in bodies of water. I have. UM, I was kind of famous in my family for always wearing a swimsuit under anything and everything. Yeah, and I did it. I got I got a call from when I, you know, first moved to Hollywood, when I was in my early twenties, and you know, I was being invited to these parties and like I got, I got a call from my agent going you know that party you

went to. Um, the lady was like a little word that you Um, you kind of cleared all of her floating votives and then dived in, but I just just like, I've kind of done the party. I didn't know have anything to say to anybody. I didn't really know anyone. I've been introduced as Mandy dry Fust by this guy who apparently worked from my agency, and I was like, you know, screw this. I'm just so I took my dress off and I folded it very neatly, and I did clear the votives away, and then I dived in

and I went swimming, and it was great. Good for you. Yeah, I started a pool party. Uh no, nobody else did. Everybody looked horrified. But then I bought a trailer by in in Malibu, where I've lived for about twenty two years, UM in this mobile home park, and I serve every day, or I did UM and swim every day. I'm a I'm a big cold water swimmer. It's are you. I love cold water and I'm a bit of a all or bear, so I like cold weather and cold water.

I mean, I'm ready for spring and summer when it comes. But I'm not afraid to get in cold water at all too just experience, like I've been in some very very cold mountain lakes in Colorado. When people just thought, you know, my friends and I are crazy. But it's it's exhilarating. It really like makes you feel so alive.

It definitely does. It's um, it's really amazing. I've been watching in London we have this, um, this big body of water called the Serpentine in the middle of Hyde Park and and people go in it when it's the water is like it's two degrees, When it's two degrees santig so it's minus whatever, and you're I mean it's it's insanely cold. You can go in for like forty five seconds. But people come out and there's all these stories of um genuine like healing happening, like physically of

the hearts becoming stronger and lungs becoming clearer. And UM. I found mentally swimming because I saw m quite long distances, not when it's super super super freezing, but just generally in the Pacific, and I never found any therapy or meditation. It was better for everything than go and then swimming for you know, a solid mile in the Pacific. That's amazing. Have you seen my octopus teacher? Yeah? I have, Yeah, I have. I totally get it. I get it. I'm

I am crazy about octopuses. I really, I really am crazy about them. I could never eat one because they are They are so clever and so brilliant and the closest thing that we have to an extraterrestrial brain in terms of like our evolution. Um that they're extraordinary. I can't believe that they only live for a year, but a year doesn't really mean anything to them. It's just it's just existence. We can't put our human ship on them. No, we do that all the time to everything. What was

your family creative? Like, how did when did you decide you wanted to act? Was it something that you had siblings that did our parents that were into it, or was it all you? You know what? I think, I really do believe it was all me. According to my parents, it was all me. It was from a very very

very young age. Um probably I think I devised my first like proper show play when I was about six and I realized, I very very immediately realized that there is something truly transactional about an audience and a performer and that clearly they were having a really good time. And I absolutely loved the creation of that good time. So it it never felt like a job, but it it immediately became an ambition to figure out a way of doing that as much as possible for as long

as possible. To like school plays and that whole deal. Yeah, all the school plays and I'm at the school I went to. We had a we had an enormous um. Like the older kids would direct the younger kids in in short plays. They would make weird short films on

Super eight. So you were you were constantly kind of being like when I was, um, you know, eleven or twelve, I was being directed by like sixteen fifteen, sixteen year olds and so you were constantly making stuff um And I remember one of my earliest memories was we were studying Um As You Like It by Shakespeare, which has

the Forest of Arden in it. And we arrived for the class and the teacher said right, and he gave us these ordinance survey maps and compasses, and he said, I'm going to put you into groups, and I'd like you to go out and scout the forest of Arden. And we're in the middle, like we're in the middle

of the country side. We were like, okay, So off we went in the groups of four to find a place where the idea was that we would all decide what the best location was and then we would build like like rough seating and we would rehearse and we would put the play on there for the rest of the school and it was so cool. It was honestly one of the most amazing experiences. It's how it's how it gets into your bones when you it's imaginative and

you love it on every level. Yeah, and it's a it's a it's a shared experience, you know, it's um. I mean writing is solitary, that aspect of it is for the most part, unless you're collaborating with probably one other person. But um, putting on a play or or a movie or a television show. I used to work on film cruise. That's what I used to do in my previous life. It's like a p A and then art department stuff. And you know, there's something about people

getting together with a common goal that's just great. It is a family, is completely, I mean, it's it is. It's so familial. It is such a community. I love the hierarchy of it. I love that everybody, everybody there to do a specific job, but you all have the

same goal. Um, and I love the cameraderie. I mean, I've got to say I've been told off so many times, Like you know, in l A, Like when I'm walking around the streets and if i see some cable, you know, coming down the street, and I'm like when I'll like follow the cable and I'll see there's a crew, and I'll be like, oh, well, maybe I know someone, you know, And I a little shuffle around and sure enough, like I'll know some whether it's a grip or an actor or a p A or the director or someone. And

I just I love it. It feels it feels very much like home to me. Sets. Yeah, for sure, it's like summer camp. Is it is. And that's why people sort of get in trouble with sort of with with behaving badly, is because they think that it's like fairyland and all the rules of you know, all of the societal contracts no longer exists, and that you can behave with impunity and it's just not true. But you get your hand slapped a few times, hopefully you learn that, right.

Cinematic community. I remember people talking about cinematic community. Cinematic kind of do whatever the hell you want. And it's like you really can't. But I remember like falling in love with some actor on some movie and like this wizened old costumer saying, honey, you know that that relationship does not have legs. And I was like, what do you mean. She's like, it doesn't have legs. It's not walking off the set and I was like, no, no, no,

I'm pretty sure he's going to marry me. That's probably really hard though, to play in love. And uh, I don't know. I mean, I certainly would fool myself into thinking that stuff is real. You it is. It is an absolute occupational hazard falling for people within the confines of a film set, you know, in any department. It really,

it really is, because it's you are so um. I don't know exactly what it is, but there is there's just this weird idea of like you're you're all creating something and you're all together all the time, and there is this weird thing of the rules don't apply, but you know they don't. Everyone there is doing something they're passionate about, and passion begets passion, and you know, it's just the way it works. I think, yeah, yeah, exactly,

have you ever wanted to direct. Yeah, definitely, I definitely do. I'm actually writing a short film at the moment that I'm going to direct. Yeah. I mean I say that. I say it so that it will happen. I say it like that, not just that I have a big pile of money sitting around that is, you know, cordoned off waiting for me to make this film. I'm going to have to struggle to make it. But yeah, that's the idea. That's great. I've watched for a really long time.

I've watched really amazing directors direct, and I love actors and I know about acting. So I really believe that we're a strong first idea and in in excellence in photographer you know, and a modicum of humidity and intelligence that I actually probably could do it. I'm sure you could. I mean, so much of it I think is first of all, just knowing the ins and outs and as an actor for so long, like you're constantly working, like you know the ins and outs like the back of

your hand. And then I think the rest is communicating like a human being to people and knowing you know. I've found also like with you know, actors who are just so weird, so weird and they're just full of like you. You have to understand that, like actors come at everything from a point of deficit, even though to the outside world it looks like they're just these complete, glamorous,

amazingly you know, lucky, fortunate, beautiful people. But they have massive fistures in them, which is why they like acting, because they get to be something other than the faulted person that they feel themselves to be. UM. But I've noticed that they're really great directors. They understand, have compassion, don't really judge each of the different actors. They don't

they don't direct in a sort of blanket. In fact, that the bad directors I've worked with, whether they were famous or not, are the ones who sort of like one size fits all direction. I supposed to really knowing what it is that is going to elicit what it is you need from that particular individual. UM. Acts are quite fragile. Um, what's it like when you have a

bad director? I feel like on the show when I talked to actors and talking about the great experiences, But what do you do when you get on a job and you realize early on, like oh shit, you find

an ally and you find an ally. I've actually never have never had a terrible director where I didn't also have an amazing ally who became a great friend and stayed and and and basically they would be I would go, you know, funny if it happened quite recently and there was another actor and I just out to him first of all, am I nuts? Or is this person like a nightmare? And they were like no, no, no, no, you're totally on the money. Yeah, I know, nightmare. I

and I and I said what do I do? And they really they really helped me formulate a plan because you can't just dig your heels in and go, oh, well I hate this. You've got to get the job done. So it's like, well, how how am I going to do this when this is hard? And it's interesting when you form an alliance with someone, they help you get what you need, do what you need to do. Trick

the director. That was always that was really fun. It was like tricked them into thinking that you're doing what they're telling you to do, and then do exactly what you want to do UM and also not react to UM because a lot of it is insecurity and posturing. I found with directors when directors aren't great. It's because they themselves are fearful and they think they have to throw their weight around in order to be heard or

acknowledged as in quotes powerful. So yeah, I would always find a friend who would help me manipulate the situation to my advantage. And imagine when you have a great director in a great cast and crew, is it it's still very hard work. You know that hours are brutal and it's tough, But when that magic is happening, does it even feel like work? No, it's not. I mean,

it's absolutely true. There have been you know, there have been those I would say three forty five in the morning is when when your body just wants to sort of shut down, and if you've particularly been doing sort of action stuff and you are exhausted. But there are these there are those moments when there is an amazing director that you and everybody else you sort of reconnect with how incredible it is to be there and how happy you are, and it's sort of like a shot

in the arm. Um. Yeah, I've I've been really lucky. I don't haven't really had too many crap experiences. I've had more all great experiences. That's great. I'd love to talk about a few movies in particular. Um, Circle of Friends really kind of launched you as your first big, high profile movie, which is funny because it wasn't a

very big high profile movie. But I think it just won the hearts of so many people and it just kind of became one of those small movies that broke out and really put put you on the map in a big way. What was that like for you? Oh? And it was nuts. I mean it was it was.

It was amazing. Actually it wasn't. It wasn't nuts like it was nuts with good Will hunting because it was so funny to me, and so it was all so enjoyable, I guess because it was this small movie and like coming to Hollywood and you know, I I've gained some weight to play to play that role, and when I arrived in Hollywood, I was just sort of back to my normal my normal genes, my normal self. But the people in Hollywood thought that was like the craziest magic

trick they'd ever seen. They were like, oh my god, look at you. And I was like, yeah, I'm just normal And it hadn't really been um, you know, my gaining the way for Circle of Friends, and it wasn't really that much. I put on what we call a couple of stone, which I think is yeah, no, actually I put it like thirty pounds, and my brother would wake me up in the He would make me up in the middle of the night and make me eat a Mars bar on a boat of pasta. That's how

I get amazing. It was really fun. It was. That's pretty funny in the middle of the night when your metabolism is just soaks all that stuff in. Yeah, and I get Patter Karna, the director, Oh my god, he got so angry with me once when we were filming because like Chris o'donald was staying in like the fancy

golf club. We were all in this brilliant, gorgeous, tumbling down sort of stone bed and breakfast, me and Saffron Barrows and Geraldy no Roar and um Colin Firth and and Chris was staying in like the fancy golf club. So we went there to kind of go and hang out in the spar and like use the gym, and Patter Connor saw me on a treadmill and he was like, get off the chadmill. Got to be fatuatedot Jesus, who's so annoyed with me? And I was like, oh, come on, also have to be healthy. We just want to be

how this want to have fun. I don't know, everyone else is doing stuff. I want to do something. Um. But it was fun, It's all I remember at that time. It was fun making that film. It was fun coming out. It was fun people loving that film. It was just it was everything good. And that the fact that it has stayed the stalwart, the star placeholder for so many women and so many people. Um, that's that's that's that's

pretty great. You know, it's pretty great that people have a big smile on their face when they talk about that movie. It's a lovely film. It's uh. I remember seeing it back then. I worked at a sort of the little alternative video store in college, and um, you know, any anything indie at that point, that was when I was really just drinking all that stuff in, like foreign films, indie films, and that was that was both, I guess. But um, yeah, seven was just a bit of a

big year for you. Uh. And in fact, you're the only guest I've had I'm almost positive that has had your movies as other guest favorites Big Night, which is one of my favorite movies. I did a an episode with The Stranger Things Guys with David Harbor and Joe Kierry and Brett Gelman, and they collectively picked Big Big Night. And then the comedian Hari Conda Boloo. Yeah, his favorite movie is Gross point Blank. He's obsessed with that movie. Yeah.

He's told we know each other over Twist. Yeah, and he's told me that. And I love these I love those films like I love Big Night and I love Gross point Blank hugely. And there are so many there's so many stories from both those films that are the other etched into they're etched into me. I used to um. We filmed in a in with Big Night before they turned the Chelsea Piers in New York into UM this

crazy huge sports EMPOREUM. There were these um warehouses, which I think Law and Order which might already been shooting they would use some of them, but they were not. They were just spaces like there was no a c There was basically a couple of plugs, you know, you could get some electricity going. It was boiling hot and we shot Big Night in August which has you know,

it's its own nightmarish. Um. Uh, what's the word. It's it's his own nightmarish temperature August and New York, and I remember Isabella Selini and I were wearing these satin dresses and we were sweating so profusely. You could see these huge sweat stains, and no one knew what to do. They were like, oh, you know, what can we do

to get so sorry? Putting eyes cubs on the back of your night And then then she said, somebody give me a water bottle with a spray, and so they gave her like this water bottle with the spray, and she just like she sprayed down my whole dress, so it just was a shade darker and it was just damp. And then she did the same with her dress and then we shot up the scene. And you never know to meet someone like Isabella Rossellini, I mean, do you just freak out? Yeah, no, totally. I'll tell you what

I did. I'll tell you exactly what I did. She would do her own hair and makeup, um, and I would get there. She'd get there at like fivet and I would get there um and I would just sit in her dressing room and I would sit on the floor and as she was putting on her makeup, she would just tell me stories. She would just tell me stories about Italy. She tell me stories about her mom. Did she tell me stories about her children? About her life? Like one of the most lyrical, beautiful, uh iconic people.

And the fact that whatever I was twenty four, like, I knew, I knew it, and I think I said this t yesday, I said, I would sometimes like pinch my wrist as I was listening to going this is happening, This is happening, And I had no way of recording anything because obviously it was you know, it was the dark ages. You're in the moment, like the sort of the good old days. You know, it really was. She was She's pure she is pure magic. She really is.

She is pure magic. She's everything that you would think that she is. She is all that, And I think and then a lot more. That's amazing, m with gross point blank. You'd probably get a kick out of that episode with Harry, by the way, because we just like gush and gush for any but one thing in particular. It strikes me about that movie is starting with the Martin comes back scene at the radio station, and then

until things get kind of serious towards the end. I feel like every interaction that you and John Cusack had it felt like a dance, the way that you two were with each other, and it was it was a little unusual, it was slightly off kilter and how people communicate in life, Like it wasn't real like real life that you were watching. It was this sort of little, fun, fairy tale dance. And I'm just curious about that, like how much of that was improvised or how how that

chemistry worked. Oh boy, Well, you know, chemistry with a with another actor is you know, it's not something you can make up. It's either it's sort of either there or not. And Johnny and I had a very very particular chemistry. I think that's why he cost me, because he knew that I could I could play in that slightly absurd place that he that he likes to play in.

And then you had these guys who he grew up with, Steve Pink and DVD even Centers, both extraordinarily like gifted, brilliant minds, and they were writing the script and the script I remember even by the read through the script wasn't right that the script wasn't there, and Johnny went to Joe Roth and said, let us will you let

us improvise? Will you let us improvise? Just let us let us let us do a couple of days and then watch the dailies and see if you think we can pull it off, because I don't think the script is working. And God bless her rock, he said, yeah, give it a try. So we would we would like

have the scenes. Someone will be on the computer, would be in some whatever hotel room in Pasadena, and someone beyond the computer, and everyone will just be throwing out ideas and improvising, us kicking around what the shape of this scene would be like when he comes to the radio stage. And it was like, okay, yeah, the whole all of it. I mean so much of it was improvised. It's it's hard to like the the flying scene, the scene when he comes. Johnny was saying, we need somebody

to show that they have this history. But it can't just be like exposition as to be something that shows that they've known each other. And I said, my dad used to do this airplane thing with me, like whenever he'd come back from a trip, we do this thing, and I guess it was a way of us sort of rebonding and I was like, let's do that, and He's like, okay, let's do that. So it was it was best idea wins and what's the funniest and so much.

I'd love to. I'd love to. I don't think I haven't got an original script of gross point blank anymore, but I bet you dev or Steve or Johnny might do. Um. But i'd love to. I'd love to a and be it. I'd love to look at the script and then see what we actually did. I mean, it's the same with Google hunting. Actually the um you know. I think Matt and Bennett been extremely vocal about that, about the scenes that were improvised and the scenes that were written as

and it's kind of interesting too. I always love I love seeing it because I know what we did. I know what we created on the day and um um. And that's that's not to say that obviously stuff that's written isn't beautiful and genius too, but sometimes says it's rare magic and what you improvise if you're all in lockstep, you know, with each other and really listening and really uh and really in the moment of telling that story, and it was such a fun story to tell and great,

point blank yeah, high shake my hand. There's something about that wine that always gets me. It was just so funny because there's so much tension in that scene because you don't know, you don't fully know what happened yet, and it's high shake my hand, and then the kiss, and then the way you guys sort of circle each other through that movie. It's it's weird. It's like you take turns like Predator and Pray and like it's so fun.

It's so I know, it is it is. It isn't readibly playful, and that is that is what I remember. I remember playing playing with John through the whole of that film, like it was just this amazing game. And you know, to be completely honest, I was absolutely head over heels in love with him. Oh my god, just

gone gets completely, completely and utterly. And that that in itself has like a kinetic energy of when you're just you, you want to be around someone all the time, and you are around them all the time, and then you get to create and play and they're kind of as mad as you are. Um in terms of their creativity and it was just it was fun. I mean there were crashes and burns as well, as there always are with anything that you know, UM, kind of burns incandescently.

It has to, it has to kind of explode at some point, but boy, it was. It was one of the greatest times of my life for sure. That's it's amazing. Um. You mentioned a little movie called Goodwill Hunting, just just a small, little now legendary iconic film. Um. I want to know some about Gus Van's aunt for sure, because

he's one of my favorite directors. But I'm also curious just about I mean, that movie exploded and was nominated for everything you were nominated for an Oscar, and it's one of those movies now that forever it's going to be included in montage clips of like the great movies of Hollywood. Um, what's it like to be in one of those movies? It's extraordinary. I mean now having you know, had a whole career, which is quite hard to do to kind of keep it going as an actor too.

I really I realized the significance of of being in a film that is as beloved and will carry on being beloved like a timeless movie. It's it's pretty rare that you can you can go through a whole wonderful career and not make a film like that. It was.

I love the innocence. I love remembering the innocence of that film because you know, Matt and burn were just too incredibly intelligent, ambitious young writers, um and actors and they wanted to They actually, I would say that they were more writers, Like they wrote so that they could act.

They wrote they could be in that movie. Um, because there was lots of talk of other actors, you know, getting lots of money to make the film, but it had to be you know, Brad Pitt and Leonardo DiCaprio, and they were like, now, you know, we want to do this, and they figured it out. It's hard to remember back then when they weren't the biggest deal in the world. But you know, you're you're all just you know, kids in your mid twenties being shepherded along. And Gus

Manzana is so great with with young actors. Um. What's he like as a as a human? He's a he is a mysterious creature, Gus Um, he really is. He is incredibly warm and soulful and yeah, mysterious. There's something very sphinx like about Gus. But when he's directing you, um, it's so amazingly pure and he doesn't say very much, but what he says it's so pertinent to what you're doing and will be the thing that unlocks what is needed in that moment. So he's he's quiet, but absolutely intent.

And I remember he's the only director I ever worked with who his face would be right by the camera. He was. He was never behind a monitor, or maybe it was just in the big scenes. I just always remember his face being right there. He was watching the scene as it was playing out, as opposed to watching it through a lens um And maybe it's because he trusted Johnny the scoffier, who was the the so sadly now deceased cinematographer who and he also was the cameraman.

Maybe he trusted him and he was like, if I'm getting it emotionally from the side of the camera, I know Johnnyeve is getting it. Um. But there was a beautiful symbiosis on that film between all departments and it was magical, you know. The cool thing was so hilariously Marymake's was making they were making a Jackie Brown at the same time, and like everything was all about Jackie Brown, with Jack Brown this and Jack Brown that, It's all about Tarantina. It's all about this whole thing. So we

were just left alone. There was nobody like hassling us. We were just made. We just went on and made this movie. Matt and Ben just worked so hard because they were you know, all hours writing, rewriting. You know, they were just in it. And we didn't have anyone breathing down our neck. So we just Gus got to make exactly the movie that he and Matt then wanted to make, um, because you know, the tigers were looking

at other meat. Right. It's a it's a movie that you just invest so much in as a viewer emotionally, Um, not only just the stuff with with Will and his just you know, heartbreaking story and what he's going through, but then the love story aspect of it is I think just it's so brutal to watch those scenes still all these years later, when you're getting your heartbroken. Um, it's it's just a collective like a collective heartbreak for the audience to It's just so real and just awful.

It's so it is. It's such a god. And by the way, that that scene we did that scene in the in the in the audition, and I don't think Matt and Ben would mind my saying that they were When I went to audition for this movie, it was at the Mercer Hotel in New York and I got there, aren't you know, ready on time and stoked, and poor Gus was like that the guys didn't show up and like I was stuck there for literally like an hour and Gus, it's so quiet and he's so not a

small talker, and you know, it was so awkward, and I just I just didn't know what to do when I just sat there. And eventually they showed up and they were so apologetic, and you know, they were really on over. They were really hungover, and they you know, and we we launched into the um the fight scene, and um we got into it and then Matt stopped it and he was like, oh my god, I am so sorry, Like you are so prepared many and I

am so not prepared. Can we just start again? And I was like, yeah, no, take your time, to take your time. But that scene, I believe that was written that never changed from from the time that he first wrote that that scene was intact um and it's so, it's so beautiful, it's a it's it's a massful scene, and it's a it's a really difficult scene, any scene that involves you starting in a place of real complicity and sweetness and ends up in a place of of

abject misery. Um. I mean, it's catinet for an actor, but it's I didn't realize how hard it was at the time. I'm glad I didn't realize how hard that is to do when that's kind of a scene as you know it's coming and just sort of there is it just sort of always in the back of your head, like three more days until not with you know it now? But then then I was raring to go every second of the day. I would wake up ready. I was just like, what are we got? Oh? I ate it

for breakfast. I loved it so hard. Now I do that thing of going, oh my god, three days until I got to do that, Okay, alright, what am I going to do? All Right? Do I know it well enough? Alright? Alright, alright, you know, but but then you're just like, I don't know this is like a dolphin quality when you're young and you're just passionate about what you do and it's just play. It's just play. It's all play. And that

was the way I know. I know now how hard Matt and Byrne we're working, like sort of after we'd finished shooting, how hard they were working on the script that they were and so many hours and such extraordinary performances. But when we were on set, it was just playtime. You know, it's amazing, it's a magical movie. Well, I'm very glad you like it. Yeah, I'm I'm waiting. I can't believe no one has picked that movie yet as

their movie crush. I'm sure it will happen at some point, which is kind of one of the fun things, like who is going to pick what movie? I bet it's interesting, it's quite it's it's say so much better person in the films that they love. It's my favorite, I mean, the conversations of my favorite part, but it's my second favorite part of doing this show is hearing from someone that I really love and admire and like, oh my god, what's the movie going to be? What's your movie going

to be? And it's almost always something I love too, which is which is kind of fun. Um. But before we get into your movie, Tutsie, great choice. Uh, I want to talk a little bit about your podcast. I'm not sure how much you're allowed to talk about yet, but in the spirit of creative diversification, I have a podcast that my heart is producing and it's gonna be

out soon. It is called Many Questions, and the title really reveals what it's about, and it is really as it goes, a shallow or as deep as the as the guest decides. Um, but I'm I love talking to people, and um, I'm interested in people in all different kinds of people. And I think this podcast, rather than just being conversations with famous friends, is a real examination of how how people move through the world, how they deal with it. Well, you had me on, so it's definitely

not conversations with famous friends. Oh you you're my famous friend, Chuck, what are you kidding me? Well, it was a lot of fun and I can't wait to hear who else is going to be on And here's some of these conversations. I feel like we did have a really good conversation, and you're very good at talking to people. It's Uh. I was super excited about because I'm such a fan of yours and my wife is too, and we um after she was like, well, what was it like? And I was like, she was lovely and it was a

great conversation from Jump. You know, you just have a very welcoming uh spirit, and I think that's uh, that's the key to a show like that. That's so nice. Thank you, I mean really coming from you as a kind of podcasting guru, Yes you are. UM, that's that's praise. Indeed. Well, I can't wait, uh, And we'll let everyone know when it officially punches and and have some other promotional stuff.

Plan to get down but your movie crush, Let's get onto tutsie uh from two, the second highest grossing movie of Night two behind ET nine Oscar nominations. Jessica laying one Best Supporting Actress UM in competition against Terry gar Uh, who I just miss and loves so much. It's just so heartbreaking. Oh my god, she is. She is one of the greatest things to ever happened to the screen, Like no doubt. She really is one of my all time favorite actresses. She is, Um, she's so great in

this movie. It's like peak Terry Gardness. It is, it is undilated Terry Garr and just just everything the neuros is what she what she built into, what she built into a character. That could have just been a device. We needed a device to get Michael to go an audition for this part, and it could have been it could have been something way more two dimensional. But she's God, she has pure magic. What's your history with this movie? Did you see when you were a kid? Yeah, my, my, my.

Hisstory with this movie is that we were we were like where I grew up when my dad lived. My dad lived in the Caribbean growing up, and we had this this VCR and he had seven movies like that was it and like the sound of music played at the drive in for a solid fourteen weeks one year. So I saw that a lot. And then you know, he had some like really grim spy ship and then Turtsy was one of these movies. And I watched it

so many times. I watched it, and I watched it and I watched it, and I I watched it so many times that I've I feel like I've had full blown relationships with every single character in that movie, Like I'll watch it and I'll be like, Oh, who am I going to be in love with today? It's Jessica Laig. Oh it's a jess collagn Watch who am I in love with today? Oh it's it's Sydney Pollock. I'm in love with Sydney Pollock today. To get helps, He's I think one of the more underrated directors. I think he.

I mean, it's not like people don't love Sydney Pollock films, but I never hear his name mentioned in the conversation of great directors. Agree such a great actor between this and husbands and Wives. No, he's brilliant, and I think that people people know that. It's so interesting to me, like why he was also beloved in Hollywood like he was. He was so kind to me whenever whenever I met him. He here's the same thing that like Jimmy Barns has.

Oh yeah I met him? Oh yeah, No, I um yeah, I loved him kind, funny again, exactly as you would imagine, like exactly as you would imagine like the someone that an icon like that to be. But anyway, I'm I've watched that movie an enormous amount. Probably I was inappropriately young when I watched it. Um, but it's awesome. It's awesome, and it's it's weird because I don't really love big commercial movies for the most part. Like I'm still pissed that Titanic beat good while hunting or Trust. I may

never get over it. Yeah, Oh hold on, this is terrible. One second. Oh my god, I'm so sorry. I'm single parenting so hard. I'm so sorry. I might have to leave all that in. That's so great. I don't wanted to kill literally wanted to kill the delivery guy. Oh my god, he really Anyway, my one dog is the biggest barker at anything that moves outside as a shelty, So don't Kenny Kelly, Kelly, Kenny Kelly, Kenny down and Kimmy. All right, Key just come here, just relax, alright, it's wonderful. Alright,

there's Bob. It's funny though that you mentioned seeing Tutsie too young. I was one of those kids too that UM was just obsessive about HBO when we got HBO when I was aver or whatever, and this was a heavy HBO rotational like I was. It's a very not an adult movie, and that there's anything too salacious. But it's just not like a movie for kids. It's it tackles sexism in the movie industry, and it's not a movie like a twelve year old should love. But I did.

I loved it so much. I'm glad you loved it. I was right there loving it also. I mean, I I still, I still, you know, I watched it again the other day, Like I I watch it all the time. I have to say, it's kind of like a comfort movie, and I don't have too many of those. But it's so funny because I was thinking about it through the lens of like it's become problematic now, and the idea of like a dude going and stealing a job from a woman. Yeah, you couldn't make this movie today, bro, No,

thank god, there's an evolution. But you can also appreciate things in the vacuum of that, of that moment um for all these other reasons. I mean, Bill Murray eating lemons, Bill Murray eating Celery, Like I still sometimes I think I wonder if that was just like someone was like, hey, Bill, you know, what are you gonna do in this? He was like, I'm just gonna eat a lemon. I'll just

eat a lemon. I'm just gonna eat lemons for this one Dustin and that party scene when he's sitting there just sort of holding court the line I wish I had a theater that was only open when it rained, and then later everyone's gone, but he's still in that same spot, like he hasn't moved at the island. I I love him, and I love it when when doesn't. When doesn't wakes him up, when he's on his first morning at work and Bill Murray rolls over and he goes, Mom, Yeah,

I think he was uncredited. I think he insisted on being uncredited in this movie. If I'm not mistaken. I remember hearing I'm meant to look it up, but I remember hearing a story about that, like he's not unlisted on the poster or anything. I think he very much did it a sort of a just a fun favor. It feels like it was all improvised and that he just showed up on set one day and they were like, oh, come on, just be in the scene. You have Now

it's an impact on the movie. He's not in very much of it if you look at actually like minutes screen time, minutes, but it's Bill Murray. He's just so funny. He wouldn't. Bill Murray says, I just don't want to sit around pretending I'm not home because you're not that kind of girl. And he's so he's really annoyed about it. He's like, no, I'm going, you know, I'm I'm going to my girlfriend's house. Like he was just their whole

like girlfriend band said. Like when Dustin Hoffman when Michael's getting ready for in quotes his date with Julie, He's like just going over to run lines and they're sitting around checking out his outfits, like I love Bill Murray as the girlfriend UM and Michael. I mean, he's like, you know, I know this may sound silly, but I just, you know, I just I just want to look pretty for her. Yeah. It's such a great line. And I loved Uman so much. It was so disappointing when he

was kind of out at as doing some inappropriate things. Yeah, but this, this this dovetails right into exactly what we were just saying about. You know, problematic stuff in movies that we love that can go that is unutterably wrong and awful, And and you and I can also look back at and and be in love with Jessica Lang in this movie, and and Terry gar and Bill Murray. It's so funny. It's because like actors want people in two When I was watching movies age twelve, they were,

they were they were the characters in the movie. So I feel like I have a I have a relationship with Michael and with Julie, And I know it was so much fun watching at the end. And I've seen this movie so many times, but it had been a long time, and it really struck me how many of these um, how much of the humor I got as an adult that I must have fallen over my head as a kid. And and it is a movie that

actually does say some very real things about sexism. It's it's it tackles in a sort of very eighties way, I guess, but um, yeah, it is for a movie this mainstream, I think, to sort of tackle sexism head on in a mainstream Number two gross in comedy was was unusual for the time. I think. I suppose it's gutting that it had to be a man playing a woman to do it. You know, when Dorothy Swatch, the director over the head. You want some gross caricature of a woman's show on you you much up ship head,

you know, and she kind of punches him. Um, it's what gets her the role and um it, I don't know. I find it. I find it interesting today. I carry it with me because I loved it so much when I was little, in lieu of not really having anything else to watch. Um, and I love it now because it brings up questions that I like to ask, which is, you know, how much how much have we changed? How much has changed? I think it's up to the individual to decide whether they can separate the art from the artist.

The last detail The King of Comedy and tot and my three favorite films. And I did tell the Narrow that The King of Comedy and like he kind of looked me kind of blackly, and he was like, really, really that's your favorite And I was like, oh christ yeah, oh now we've got to be at a scene together, okay, boy, Yeah, I think so. I think we should talk a little about the rest of the cast, because it's just a murderers row um, Dabney Coleman. Dabney Coleman. I mean, he's

literally a walking epaulet. He's just a revolting Safari suit of a dude. I hate him so hard in this movie, and he's so genius obviously, but I know, I want to know what he's like because between this and Nine to five he really cornered the market on on eighties. Uh. Just bad dude, that's guy. Yeah, those bad dudes. There's

something about Yeah. It's the way that he it is just that extraordinary dismissiveness that he has and just the the endless kind of patting Jessica Lang on the bottom as she's getting into cars and just you know, his his it's it's it's so it's so great, like his his come upance, I mean, such as it is is so great. His ridiculous vindication at the end in the Samath when you know, Michael Dorsey reveals that he's not Dorothy but her brother, and he's like, I knew there

was something about her because she didn't like him. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Every moment where he goes off book, Oh yeah, it's just so brilliant because the second it happens, it cuts to the control room and everyone's just like, oh God, here we go. It's like the one thing you can't do on its soap b Opara's improvised. I would think like it's all about like just nailing those lines as fast as possible because they shoot so much in a day. Um, and every time he just starts to go off, it's

just so wonderful, the greatest, and I do it. I actually do it on every set I think I've ever been on. When um, I hear the direct to say, uh, a camera, can you pull back? Um? And then I go how far? How do you feel about Cleveland? Um? It's it's that's one of my that's really one of my favorite maybe my favorite lenon the movie ever. H one of my favorite moments. And this is a Terry Gar moment that is so subtle. And I love these moments and movies where an actor does this little choice

that is so easy to overlook. And I now you probably recognize this part was right after they have sex. She's in bed, covered up with the s looks to she says sex changes things and her part well, but then she also looks kind of she just looks kind of like disappointed. She doesn't look I was like, oh, yeah, it's all still the same. It's so funny. It's just a great little choice. She's she's a master like she is,

she is a master. And it is stuff like that that is the that is what differentiates a good actor from a genius actor. It's stuff like that. It's it is, it's it's it's that whole incredibly fast paced monologue when she's like, you know, are you gonna call me tomorrow? Because you know, if you're not going to call me, I just like you to tell me now so I can have my pain now, because if you don't call me tomorrow, then I'm been. I have you not calling me and I'm gonna have my pain. So I want

to have a pain now. Yeah, it's she's, She's, She's heaven. There's I don't know, there's a lot of there's a there's a lot of discovery. And while he's not ostensibly funny, what I like about about Michael Dorsey is that he's not funny. He isn't. He's an arrogant, self regarding actor and every and doesn't often does allow everybody around him to be funny. Um, but I love the I love

the moments. What's that line when he says, um, I think Dorothy is smarter than I am, Like, I love I love the sort of discovery of his humanity that this woman, this created woman, is teaching him. Yeah, but the second part of that line, there's a lot to unpack. He says, I just wish he was prettier. I just wish she was prettier. I mean, that's there's a lot going on in that, you know, I mean, especially well,

do you know what? There's also that other line, and I think it's where I've really because I think in a completely different way. This is why it was so hard for me when they were both nominated, because I think Jessica Lang is, it's so hard to be that beautiful and be as extraordinarily gifted as she is. By the way, there are there are lots of act is you're incredibly beautiful, and you actually think they're better actresses than they are because you're so big girl, by how

beautiful they are. And then there's a few who you know, like a Margot Robbie, they are absolutely you can't look away stunning, and they are also profoundly gifted actresses. But when Jessica Lang says, you know, um, don't you find it being hard? Don't you find it hard being a woman in the eighties, and there's something so there's something so sad and remote, and she she so could have just been setting up, you know, some gag for Dustin Hoffman because he's not a woman. But there it touches

me so deeply, her profound sadness. You know, this woman who drinks too much, you know, a single mother who understands that when she gets old, there's not going to be a whole lot left for her. And she's dabbed. The Dabney Colbyn's of the world are always sort of going to be the guys that were like it simply sad. Yeah, yeah, that this is sort of her lot in life. She's

in this great apartment. I mean, it's very funny. It's very eighties when you look at that apartment now, but you know, this big New York apartment, and she seems so resigned to yeah, like you're saying, I have to

work for this dick. But then when you see her laughing on set, like and I'm sure it looked like it sure looked real to me when Michael's doing that whole bit about given every nurse a cattle, proud to dr bruser in the Bazilis and she starts she just Colone starts laughing and she's carrying her now and she's really laughing, and it's just it's magical because you see

who this, you see who that woman. Julie is like all the fun, all of this, And I love that with characters where you don't have to have a whole scene about this whole other world that they live in, but you just pull back the curtain long enough to see that it's in there, and also trusting that people will catch that and that you don't have to belabor at that point, Like that is mastery as well. Yeah. I think also played the Charles Darning stuff, um, who's

just so great and everything. Yeah, I think they played that just right, Like they could have gone so further over the top slapstick with you know, him getting physical with her or with him. I guess it's beefy hand like when he get when he says this and it just goes and they're both just back too far. Like it's that those kind of physical gags like that stuff. It's brilliant, but just just enough of it though, you know, like these little moments, but it wasn't he could have

gone in the wrong direction. I think Sidney Pollock deserves a lot of credit for that. Um. One of my other favorite scenes is the Russian tea room scene. I couldn't agree with him, like it's my I'm I'm looking for that, I'm looking for the Russian tea room. Well this is the Russian tea room. Oh I missed you. Oh Michael, Michael, I told you to get out, and

his voice and it's Michael, It's Michael. Jesus, Michael told you to sepet He plays annoyed and angry better than like anyone in the business, so brand when he's just like picking lint off his shoulder and putting Michael putting his arm right, and when this guy's come out to the table and I'm like, oh my god, it's just great. But it's also so agency at Brilliant Sydney Public. Is when Michael is then desperate to get out, and that whole scene where he's like, you've got to get me out,

and he was like, I can't get you around. You're making a lot of money. Like it's like the whole idea is like I can't get you out, Like it's I love how how how quickly he seamlessly he's like, oh, this is a hit, this is making shiploads of money. Guy, I'm in yeah, it's it's actually one of the better movies about the industry. And you don't want to think of it that way. You think of TUTSI is like

the movie about Dustin Hoffman playing a woman. You don't put it up there with like The Player or Living in Oblivion and all these movies about making movies. But it's really one of the better movies I think about the industry. Like that's definitely like having grown up with this film, I now I place it firmly in the in the cannon of movies that you just that you just talked about. I mean, it's about acting in a

lot of ways. It's it's so much about acting. I mean those scenes at the beginning, I watched those a lot now, you know over under the credits when he's when he's directing the whatever the acting classes that he gives. I love those scenes. I love watching him like because because I think he's just I think that's just him. I don't think that's not him being Michael Dorsey. I think that's just him Dustin Hoffman looking at a scene and like talking about and they just shot it theater crowd. Yeah,

he's just such as he's such asked the tomorrow. No one will work with you, no one will work with you. It was like a tomato doesn't have logic, it can't move that some public screaming. Then he's like, that's what I said, if it doesn't have legs, and how can he sit down? He's so exasperated. Those scenes that, I mean, they're scenes together just some of the best stuff in the whole movie. And that's a movie like with Bill Murray,

like doing his thing too. Everything about it is great that I think how it all spins together in that third act, it's just like, ah, it just it gains all this momentum in that third act because he has to deal with Sandy, he has to deal with Jessica Lang, he has to deal with Jessica Lang's dad, he has to like all of these things kind of come crashing down all at once. It's it's sort of like the

best farce. It's such a That's why it's just such a brilliantly written film because like you know, you you look, it's so lean and the structure is just exactly as you it is written in the books, and in a way for me, that's what even though they're not typically films that I love that you could read Save the Cat and he would understand the structure of Tutsie. But what what makes it so genius is the fact that

it does it. Here to this like apparent the structure that you apparently can't ever move away from, and it does it so perfectly, and that by that third act where you have all of these things, and it's so difficult to end that film, and I got to tell you, like I I'm I feel hopeful, I feel glad, I feel that scene at the end in the street is totally right. Yeah, I mean I would have maybe liked a little a little bit long. I would have liked to hear her say a little bit more, but maybe

by that point you you get it. And when she says I'm Mr Dorothy, you really feel that that's really everything she like. She finally had a friend, she had a mother, she had a confidante, and that's gone from her. And when he says, she's right here and I believe him. It's a complicated scene to play, and it's a movie I think could have ended a number of different ways and still worked. Um, and it makes me want to

tell me you're tell me you're all ending. Well. I mean she doesn't smile and walk down the street with him. She she shuns him for for tricking. I mean, of course you came in the Hollywood movie like that. That's not I was going to say, that's like, that's like the you know, I'm trying to think that's the gust friend sound version. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean certainly it could as far as Hollywood and to go this is sort of it. It could have ended with him loving

Sandy although he wasn't right. They weren't right for each other, as much as I hate to say it, No, no, not at all. But I don't know if he's right

for Jessica Lange either. Now he's totally selfish. I mean, he's I don't think he deserves which is why I'm glad that he doesn't like UNI actually get her like I always like to think that they would become friends and then she would learn I think what I always imagined was they would become friends and then she would learn that you could actually, you know, have a good relationship with a man, and then she would go and marry like a grown up. Neither Dabney Coleman or him No,

neither of those. It dis Yeah, I think that's a good call. Uh, And you know you don't. They very subtly sort of indicate that he and saying they work out okay because her name is listed on the play bill, on the sign or whatever, so they don't need to like tie that up with the prettiest bow. I think

I love the way they did that. They're like, clearly they're going to be pals because they're acting together and their friends play exactly and that that was the whole point of like making that money in the first place, was just to put on the play so they could they could be actors, you know, which is and un actors do actors do get over stuff? Yeah? I think you do. You have to. I think the last thing I want to talk about maybe is just that the

reveal scene. It's um it felt the other night when we were watching it, it felt almost like a sports movie. How it was the tension and it was culminating in this big thing because they had to go live. It was such a great setup, you know that you know what's going to go down. It almost felt like the ending of the Karate Kid Are Rocky or something. Yeah, totally.

And also when that that amazing moment where Michael stumbles and he doesn't have it and you cut to the booth and they're like that everyone is just like on the edge of the scene and he just he doesn't know what the story of what is going to go, and then this collective kind of sigh when he carries on, even though it's literally like the nuclear codes like stopped

for a minute and then they carried on. I mean when he reveals so, I mean, I've seen that movie so many times, and Emily and I watched it the other night and where it was uproarious laughter in our bedroom watching that when he finally rips it off and the in everyone's expression, it was just I knew it was coming. I've seen it a dozen times and we were dying. We were rolling on the floor laughing. It

was so great and so funny. Well, I'll be I know, it's it's you know what it was found I found really weird and I've never I've never made peace with it with it is when Jessica n goes over to him and she punches him in the stomach should have been a slap, right, it's super weird. She should have fucking decked him, Like, same weird. I don't get it. It's like, well, I don't understand that choice. I've never

understood that choice, and I still don't understand it. No, it's so funny that you said that, because we said the exact same thing, and in fact, when she came up to him, I said, here comes to the slap, because yeah, like punching him and like the full steeth coming out of his mouth like I would have taken. I would have taken any version that wasn't stuffing him in the gun. It's just weird. Emily thought it might have been in the balls. I was like, no, I

think it was a stomach punch. Yeah, it was definitely. Oh that's good. I never thought about that. I've always thought it was the stomach punch. I think it is. I think kneeing him in the balls could have been an acceptable number two to punching him. She really should have punched him. That's actually the only thing that I would change about that whole movie. Yeah, that was the only sort of weird choice. I wonder what the what the provenance is of that. I don't know. I don't

have any idea. Um, great movie. I mean I feel like we covered it. How do you feel, Oh yeah, yeah, I'm it's so funny and talking about it, I just I'm wondering how many people are going to be like, it's a really sexist movie. I don't think you should be like in that movie Mini Driver, God, you're a bad feminist, bad feminist. No, you're a great feminist. And

it's a great movie. And if you look at it in the lens of nineteen two, they were actually saying a lot about feminism, and I think he was trying. I think it was really trying to to to do something. I just don't think that we we just weren't there yet. We just have been the best nineteen eight two could do. Yeah, man, look if if et s here are that not that e t isn't a great movie. But like if that's the fair that people are really like looking at God, right,

then that was some cinema. Very jay compared to The Alien and the Basket Across the Moon. Yeah, such a good movie. I was so glad to get to watch it again. And I appreciate you coming on. It's very kind of you to spend so much time. Thank you very much. I apologized for my booking talk, but I love it. We're going to leave some of that in. I think everyone needs to hear Bob's roar. All right,

thanks a lot, alright, Chuck. Movie Crash is produced and written by Charles Bryant and Meel Brown, edited and engineered by Seth Nicholas Johnson, and scored by Noel Brown here in our home studio at Pontstey Market, Atlanta, Georgia. For i Heeart Radio. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,