Michael Ian Black on Flirting With Disaster

Bryant here uh Friday Interview edition. And I just had a great conversation with Michael ian Black, one of my comedy heroes because he was in a little sketch comedy group called The State, a show that really meant a lot to me and was very instructive for me when I was in college to see people my own age um getting the show on what was like the coolest network, uh MTV at the time, and it was just so goddamn funny and everyone went on to do amazing things.

You also know Michael from Stella from Michael and Michael Have Issues from Viva Variety, from the NBC sitcom ed. He's been busy over the year's wet, hot American summer, of course, and we talked a little bit too about his new book, A Better Man, a mostly serious letter to my son that I cannot recommend more, especially if

you're a parent. It's a really really sweet book. It's a quick read and uh, just a wonderful, wonderful You see a side of him that I think you don't normally see, which is just super sincere and sweet dad. Uh giving advice to a son about life. It's really really great, so highly recommend a better man. Uh. So the conversation went great. We talked about his um second

to pick. His first pick was Milish Crossing, but we've done that, so he went with Flirting with Disaster, the great great um kind of bonkers comedy from David o' russell second film, one of my favorite movies as well, and we had a great conversation about it. So here we go with Mr Michael ian Black on Flirting with Disaster? How is it up there in Connecticut? Good? You know? Yeah, so it's a little snowy. Oh yeah, it's a dusting

of snow. Do you like that? Sure? I like. I like snow up until the point where I have to do any shoveling, and then I don't like it at all. But once the shoveling is accomplished that I like it again. I got you. I was kind of and probably shouldn't have been surprised to learn that you went camping by yourself not too long ago, and I grew up camping, and I just it didn't seem like a michael Ian Black thing to do, which is probably a dumb thing for me to think. Wasn't a michael Ian Black thing

to do in my mind either. Oh, it wasn't okay, not at all. I was it. Uh, I liked it when I didn't hate it. But I was doing a lot of hiking, was more hiking than camping. So it was a lot of up and down, a lot of scrambling. I shouldn't say scrambling because that implies velocity. There was no velocity. But there was a lot of up and down in the wilds of Connecticut, a lot of climbing, a lot of descending, and um uh it was. It was harder than I I thought it was going to be.

And the and the first time I went out, I didn't have the best backpack, are the most appropriate backpack, And I didn't like my sleeping pad. There were problems, and I addressed some of them the second time I went out, so it got a little bit better. And but you were spending the night, right, Yeah. I camped the first time for three nights and the second time for two nights. I was trying to walk the Appalachian Trail in Connecticut. That do that whole thing, so I did, yeah,

and you completed it. He uh yeah. Basically there's a tiny bit at the end that I didn't do because my wife was taking me up and there was a basically a place to exit the trail that was more appropriate, so I exited. Are okay for convenience sake? That's okay? Yeah, exactly. It used to be a dream of mine to hike the whole thing. I've hiked a lot of parts of it in Georgia, but I mean that that ship is sailed for me, I think it. That was sort of

my initial, uh fantasy. I don't know why, because again, as you said, it doesn't seem like a thing that I would do, and I totally agree with that, but I got it into my head years ago that I would enjoy it um And so in the back of my mind, I was always thinking, someday, I'm going to do some hiking and I'm going to hike the Appalachian Trail.

And then when the pandemic happened and I found myself in a house with my family, I decided it was time to leave, and so I thought this might be a good time to experiment with hiking, and I didn't know it was going to be quite as expensive as it as it is, just this sort of setting up costs just to get gears expensive. Yeah, that stuff isn't cheap, and especially if you want to kind of have all

your bases covered. Uh. They are all sort of sorts of fun gadgets and things that you don't necessarily need, but those are also kind of fun to get. Yeah. I didn't get a lot of gadgets, but I did buy a nice tent. I bought a nice sleeping guy. Got bought a nice but two nice backpacks and that ship ends up adding up, yeah, for sure. And then the and the and the food isn't cheap. Those Uh, those dehydrated meals are not cheap if you're gonna eat

a bunch of them. Yeah, those have come a long way, though, They're not bad now. It was delicious, I have to tell you, the chili beef and mac that I had. I still fantasize about it. Delicious stuff. Bliss. When you're out there and you've been hiking and it's that's the thing. It's so good. It's so much better. You've been hiking all day, you're starving and there's nothing else to do at night other than eat. Uh. It's the only thing you have to look forward to, and then it turns

out that the food is actually delicious. I loved it. Did you pass anyone on the trail that was that recognized you? No? Thank god, No, it would be a little weird. Huh. Well it would be embarrassing too, because I was, you know, the whole time it looked like I was probably gonna drop dead from a heart attack. I didn't need anybody going, hey, Michael and Black, do

you need any help? I didn't need that. Um. So when I have people on, I like to talk a little bit initially about sort of the the movies of your youth and what your movie going days were like when you were a kid, and how robust and influence that was. My movie going experience as a kid was shallow, not particularly thoughtful, um, not particularly uh. I didn't feel like I was getting a tremendous amount out of it. Um when I was probably in my early adolescence when

we got our first VCR. But and you know, I didn't go to and then we didn't go to the movie theater very much before that, and then the only other option was like to see movies on television, and they were always terrible, or at least in my mind, they well, they were probably perfectly fine movies, but I didn't. You know, to a nine year old, costa blanket does doesn't hold a lot of appeal. Um. So when we first got the VCR, that was exciting, and we joined

a movie club, which was exciting. And it's funny to remember how like those early video stores were a little bit um elitist isn't the right word, but you had to pay to joint and then you had to pay to rent, and so there was some expense involved in renting movies, and then obviously if you were late with them, then there was more expense involved. And we didn't have very much money at all growing up, so it wasn't like we were renting a ton of movies all the time.

But I feel like what I was watching were primarily the big films of the time, So Raiders, the Lost arc et um gee, I don't even know. No, I didn't. I didn't see Goonies. Um. At friends houses, we might see a horror movie or two Friday the Thirteenth or Nightmare on Elm Street. Rocky, Um, I saw star wars in the theater. Sure, and but like you know, I wasn't I wasn't like that into movies. Interesting. Did you have designs on show business or acting early on? Yeah?

I thought from a young age I was going to be an actor, but I didn't think it would be possible to be a movie actor. Like that thought never occurred to me. I thought, I'll just do plays. I'll be New York and I'll do crummy play and then if I'm lucky, I'll get to travel the country and do you know, the classics and regional theaters and be poor and um, that's that. That was the extent of my imagination. Like, I didn't think it was possible to end up in the movies around television that just did

that seemed like a world well beyond my own. Now, did you? Uh? I mean, I know you've done plenty of stage work, obviously with comedy and sketch and stuff, but have you acted in plays plays as a professional? I didn't like twenty five years, I mean the lat I mean I feel like I was like eighteen or nineteen, so longer than that. Now, maybe twenty the last time I did a play. I would like to I'd like to go back to the stage and and do something, um,

but nobody has asked me to, and it doesn't. You know, It's well, there's no theater anymore anyway, theaters. Theater has stopped existing, at least in this kind right you can you can say theater is dead without sounding like a snob, because it literally is dead. Theaters are Um. Yeah, there's just no theater. It just doesn't exist right now in

in any recognizable form. So I haven't done it. I would like to do it at some point in my life again, but that would it will mean rejoining actor's equity, which I'm perfectly willing to do, which is the Union for Theater Actors. Yeah, for some reason, I could see writing a play. Is that? Am I off base? There is that something that you that excites you in any way? Um, if I had a good idea for a play, yeah,

it could excite me. But I don't, and so it doesn't. Um. So let's kind of skip forward to the n y U years and I do want to talk about the state or else people will be very mad at me. I know you're having a reunion. Is it this Saturday? For sketch question? Yes, yes, but I'm not really We've already done our work for it. It's a it's a thing that we made in a show. So I'm not doing any actual reuniting on Saturday. I've already had my reunion. Got you. I didn't, I didn't know what form it

was confessed to all my crushes and it was embarrassing. Well, I mean, I think everyone is. It occurred to me the other night I was watching that Belushi documentary. Um, I don't know if you've seen that, but I've seen something that. Yeah, when I was watching some of those uh still photos and clips of the Second City group in the National Lampoon Radio Hour, and I'm looking at those people all kind of gathered together, and I was just blown away by the you know, the talent, kind

of before they were super famous. And then it kind of really hit home how much like the state was that for our generation? Um, like every single one of you and such a big group went on to do amazing things and still do amazing things and really really something special. I think. So of course, none of us have had the success that any of those Second City guys had and gals had. Um, you know, there's no Bill Murray from our group. There's no John Belushi from

our group. But we've all had good, solid careers in show biz doing things that people appreciate. Um, and we're all still alive. So in that respect, we've got one up on Belushi. How how old are you guys during that first during the MTV season, Uh, the youngest. I was the youngest, and I think I was twenty when we premiered. I think I might have been twenty two. And I think Ken Marino is the oldest and he was probably twenty four and a half. Maybe that is crazy, man, Yeah,

it was. It was. Um, it was crazy, especially now to be our age, like we're the same age, to look back at being twenty two and be handed the keys, you know, on a super cool network you know at that time and kind of I mean, how how much free rain did you guys have? Was that kind of go do what you want? No, in the beginning, it was. It was very um. Yeah, they really wanted us to

be something that we weren't. In the beginning. They were trying to get us to do um like MTV pop culture stuff, you know, and it wasn't a good fit in the beginning. I mean, they did give us some ly way, absolutely, and eventually what happened is I think we kind of earned more when they started to understand and we started to understand who we really were, because

you know, we were trying to make them happy. I think they were trying to make us happy to a certain extent um, but it took a little while for the network and for us to understand ourselves. They were just getting into original programming. We've never been on television before. Um, so there were some growing pains and um, yeah, we we we kind of had to earn their trust. Was Bob Pittman around back then? Um? Yes, but but you know, there was a whole echelon of MTV people that we

didn't have anything to do with. Uh, you know, we don't. You know, we were a little, a little show. We dealt with mid level executives. Um, we didn't deal with like huge people until we started to get more popular. And then they would show up every now and again, Right, well, he runs uh the movie crushing stuff you should know on my Heart and he runs I Heart. So I've met Bob a few times and I'm always trying to bend his ear on on those MTV ears because I was a kid who grew up with my face peeled

to MTV constantly. Yeah, I was too. Like, it wasn't lost on me at all that we were on MTV. I mean it did. It's kind of hard to remember, but you you mentioned it, like MTV really was the coolest place to be at that time. Um, at least from an outsider's point of view. From an insider's point of view, like, it was fine. It was a lot more corporate than we thought it would be. It was a lot blander a lot of ways than we thought

it would be. There were cool things about it, there were perks, but it was a little bit like maybe working at a at a at a record label or something where you're like, oh, yeah, this is really cool, like we make cool music, UM, but it's still a job. And that's kind of how it felt. Did Was it kind of cleared to you guys early on kind of what um, everyone's strengths were. Um? Was that pretty evident? Or did was there a long process and and sort of figuring out who was best at what? Well, we

all thought that we were good at everything. We were arrogant and both within our own community and to the world at large, and that arrogance was a source of our strength, but it was also a tremendous weakness that we had. So there was a lot of jostling in the group, a lot of competitiveness, a lot of um ego, but not in terms of like I think I'm better than you, but just I think everybody felt vulnerable, and

so that came out as um. You know, people would we would fight, you know, we would we would get that at each other and and there would be a lot of tension. Like we were young and immature, and we made a lot of mistakes, um, and we didn't appreciate fully the opportunity that we had. I don't think anybody could have at our age. Yeah, I mean there were so many of you two, it's like sketches tough to get for everyone to have kind of there, uh the sketches they right get on the air, the sketches

they they act in be on the air. And you know, it's a challenge with a you know, four or five six people. There were eleven of us, you know, ten white guys and one white girl. And you would never construct a group like that. Nobody would do that. It's stupid. Um but we started as a college comedy club, you know what I mean. We started out just like as a thing you do in college, and that's how we that's how we formed, and that's how we stayed um correctly.

So I mean, you know there was there was, there was. It would have been weird if we had jettisoned anybody, you know once we got the deal, or if we had added members, um, that would have been weird too. It was an organic thing, and we kept it organic, but it it had its its um pros and cons and and the big con was that there were eleven of us and it was a totally unwieldy number. And the second thing was that there was no leader. Nobody was leading us. No, there was no but nobody was

in charge. We had a producer and we leaned on him once we had the TV show, we leaned on him to kind of keep us on track, and he did. He did a great job. His name is Jim sharp Um. But the way we decided everything was by vote. Yeah, I mean, eleven is a lot of people, but that also is a unique thing in sketch when you can whenever you had everyone sort of out there, it was so fun and chaotic. Um. It didn't happen a ton, but there's also something kind of cool about having that

at your disposal when you needed. Yeah, and we were conscious of it and tried to make sure that we did do big kind of group sketches every now and again because it did. It did have a really good energy when we did that, and it was fun. Who met who first? Uh So the first the idea really emerged from another sketch group that was at n y U the year before we started a sketch group founded by Moe Williams, who was now one of the famous

children's book authors and illustrators. UM and he started a sketch group called the Sterile Yak and our a guy in our group, Todd Holibeck, was a part of that. And then the way and why you worked was if you wanted funding for your group, you would have to allow other people to join your group, which makes sense. You know, you can just have a group and then be like nobody else can be in and expect to get money from the college. And so the Sterile Yak

wanted to continue their second year. But to do that and to continue to get money from n why you they had to open up the group, which they didn't want to do. So Todd said, basically, I'll start a new group, like I'll leave the Sterile Yak and I'll start a new group and that way, and you guys could take a member or two and I'll start this new thing, and that way everybody will continue to get funding.

So that's what he did. He used the one who organized the first kind of tryouts and rehearsals for what we then called the new group, which became the State UM. So he was so and he knew Ken Marino. They were in the same class. So Ken Marino and Todd knew each other, and they Ken Marino knew David Wayne, but David Wayne was not in was in this sterile Yakin didn't leave originally. And I think those are the only guys in that class. And then the rest of

us were freshmen coming up that year. They were soft. It's just amazing. Marino is one of those guys that I just I can hardly look at his face without laughing. No matter what he's doing. He is uh, very good, annoying, he's annoyingly good. I think, well, I mean, everyone is so great. It was just it was a magical thing that it's just one of those moments in comedy history. I think that, uh, everything aligns and it's just I

don't know. I'm not a big believer in like fate and the cosmos and stuff, but when you see something like this happen, it kind of makes me believe in God occasionally comedy God at least. I mean, We're hardly a miracle. But what I think we had was, um, we had a very strong work ethic, and we had

that that arrogance. And then we also I think benefited from the fact that we didn't know anything about anything, so we were all we all sort of had to teach each other how to make comedy, and in doing so, I think we created a distinct voice. Um, that's what I think worked, you know. And then because we had this work ethic, we kind of you know, supported each other in that work ethic, and that translated after the state into you know, being able to carve out of

careers for ourselves. I'd love to talk about Stella for a minute too. I know we can't hit like everything you've ever done, but I think Stella and wet Hot American Summer a couple of things I want to address Stella. Was I watched some more of the shorts this morning because it had been a while. I watched the show when it was on. It was just such a great idea, I think, to do this kind of throwback, kind of three Stooges esque rat packy kind of thing with your absurdist,

really kind of silly comedy. Um, how much fun was Stella? That's such a dumb question, But it seems like you guys really enjoyed it. We did. We did. Three of us, me, Michael Showalter, and David Wayne really loved Stella. UM. And Stella was an outgrowth of the State. And one of the things we liked about it, of course, was that there were only three of us. You know, it made everything so much easier. But um, we still we you know, we worked really hard at it. We we worked our

asses off on Stella. Um. It is so silly and it feels so throwaway and so absurd, but it was so uh deliberate. It was so crafted. I'm not saying it's well crafted, although I think it is, but it was very crafted. It was very structured, It was very Um. We thought about it a lot, and and we thought

about it was always all very deliberate. Um. It's I think Stella is probably my favorite thing I've done because it was such a pure expression of itself, like it and it and it went play races that I just feel like, I felt like it was I felt like we were the only ones who could do what we were doing. It's not to say it was better than

what other people are doing. I don't think it was, but it was it was unique to us, and this and the State similarly was unique to us, Like we were the only ones who could have done the State. We were the only ones who could have done Stella. Um. You know, even with wet hot American summer, that world of people started to open up a little bit and Michael and David brought in all these other people and sort of populated their universe with these other people, which

ended up being amazing. But pre that, when we were doing well, I guess Stella, when we we were we had started to do Stella before wet hot um and started to make those shorts. It all felt very contained and I really uh like that and appreciate that about it. Yeah, I mean, I think that's interesting the sort of business of comedy. I think It's really easy for people who have never tried something like that to think something like Stella is just three old friends getting together and dicking

around and being goofy and having fun and rolling cameras. Um. But I'm glad to hear you talk about that a little bit and sort of demystify that because it is a lot of hard work and it is sort of serious business in a way. It can also be fun, but um, it's it is intentional and very tough to do. Yeah, it was all it was. It was. It was all intentional and uh and I'm I'm yeah, I remain I remained really proud of it. What was the expectation for

what Hot American Summer? Um? I mean, obviously you didn't think it was probably gonna be this. I mean, it's kind of a cultural phenomenon at this point. Well, David and Michael thought they were making a movie that was going to find commercial success, like in the theaters, and and I thought they were out of their fucking minds. I thought, there's that. I mean, I was hopeful. I was like, great, I hope it does, but I didn't think that it would, um find you know, like success

in that way. But I did think that it would find its audience over time. Yeah. Uh and I was right about that, But I didn't predict that it would have the long shelf life that it's had. I didn't. I had no idea. Yeah, I mean it's uh. I mean, like I said, it's sort of a cultural phenomenon. I think it goes beyond cult movie hit two. Uh. I mean people just want still want more. They want more sequels, uh,

more TV episodes. It's just a world that I think, and it's probably a lot of people from our generation who grew up on stuff like meatballs and just have such a or went to summer camps and have such a fondness for that. Uh I want more. Yeah. Well, I mean was I mean, I know that it was definitely inspired by meatballs and by both of their summer camp experiences. Um. And I I was. I was just happy that they let me be a part of it. You know, I just wanted to hang out with those guys,

I mean, the whole cast. I just wanted to like, I just wanted to be there and hang out. Um And so I was glad that I was able to be a part of it. Was it ever weird? After the state when people started kind of peering off and partnering up and doing different things together to include or not include people. Um. Yes, in the very beginning, it was weird and difficult. UM. For example, me, so I was the me. Tom Lennon and Ben Grant were the

first ones to do it. We created a show called Viva Variety Fantastic, which was based on a sketch that Tom wrote for the state. UH, and we created a show out of it, and that created a lot of hurt feelings. People were upset with us for doing that, um because it felt I don't know, exclusionary or something, and it was you know, um. But at the same time, it also felt like, well, ship, like we have to move forward. And that was I mean, this was my thinking. We we we I have to like do something. The

state is not really operable right now. UM, it has no prospects, so we have to you know, I have to find another thing to do. And this was the thing that it seemed like it would be really fun to do. UM. So then we brought in Carrie Kenny, Carry Kenny Silver, I guess and UH and we had a really good time with it and we had people from the state on it, but it was it was always it took a long time for those feelings, hurt

feelings to go away. Um And I take a lot of responsibility for that, Like I feel really bad about that and continue to that it hurt people well, but I mean that's the only way. I mean, was the state still a thing at that point? It kind of was. It kind of the state. And I think in all of our minds continues to be a thing, like it has never stopped being a thing in all of our minds. It's just that we can never agree on doing anything

together other than these short little things, little shows, little reunions. Um. And there's just too many of us. It's just too fucking unwieldy to do anything with. So the state was still very much uppermost in everybody's mind. But there were no there was nothing was happening. There were no offers on the table, there was no TV network stepping up, And honestly, I don't know that we could have as a group continued to go on like we burned pretty

bright for reason, Like we were. It was just too much for everybody, And I think we would have disintegrated pretty quickly even if we had continued. Do you think if we just didn't have the maturity, if it would have been five or six people, It's it's impossible to say, because you know it was what it was. Um, I

do think that. I mean, I know that, like if we were to do something now, it would be a totally different experience, just because none of us have the same ship to prove that we had to prove then, So I think we could all enjoy it in a way that we couldn't enjoy it then, you know, the net result of it might be that it sucks because maybe we would be complacent in a way because we weren't like clawing at each other's throats to get on air. Um.

But at least I know it would be fun. Yeah, I mean, it's just such a fun thing for fan and still today to see whenever any of you get together for a project, whether it's uh, the David Wayne directing a movie in including like a couple of people, it's just it always feels like a little bit of that state DNA is there, and it's just such a special thing for the fans. I think, Well, it's nice for me as a fan of those guys and girls, is that. I also see it when I see their work.

You know, I see, I know, I know the DNA of all the jokes that are on the screen. Um, you know, it's because it's my DNA. I just recognize it. And it's I really like that. I really like seeing their work and seeing um and and and and feeling pride in it. Not pride like I have any ownership in it. I don't, but just pride that. You know, I knew Showalter when he was, you know, seventeen years old. You know, I know the Wen know guys when they were seventeen years old. You know. It's just I just

I like it. I like I like feeling a part of that. Uh. Who's doing the documentary? I mean, that's got to happen at some point, right, I don't know. Nobody, nobody has asked to do them document that's shocking to me. Maybe Judd Apatow's step up. Okay, uh so let's move over to your most recent book. I mean, you started writing books, children's books. How many years ago? I don't know? Okay,

fair enough, but your most recent book. And I met you previously when we did the Uh, well, I met you a long time ago briefly, but um, when I did a sort of online uh, in conversation about your latest book, A Better A Better Man, A mostly serious letter to my son uh. And I really enjoyed that conversation because it's a it's a book that I read in like a day and a half and it's just it's so wonderful, especially as a parent too. Um. And

it is mostly serious. Uh. There are plenty of funny moments, to be sure, but it's just such a sweet book, and I think reveals a side of you that maybe people don't know and can really appreciate. Well. Thanks, Um, I do appreciate that, and thank you for the kind words now and before UM, yeah, it was it was a book. It is a book that it was hard to write, and it's hard to write both because the subject matter and the subject matter really informed the form

that it was going to take. And I knew that if I wrote that book, it was going to have to be pretty serious, or as the title ended up, being mostly serious. Um. And I was really scared to do that because I you know, there's nothing worse than a comedian who wants to be taken serious. It's just the worst. And I didn't you know. I was. I was afraid of stepping into that territory. Uh, but I'm glad I did. You know. The response has been really warm, And I wrote a book that I didn't know that

I was capable of writing, So that feels good. Yeah, it is a warm book. And there's still I mean, even if you're not a parent, there's so much in there because you talk about your own life and your own sort of unique childhood and situation with your parents, and um, it never kind of feels like therapy for you. I imagine it was in some ways, it really wasn't really And I guess in the way that maybe you mean, like it wasn't cathartic. I wasn't shedding tears over the keyboard.

I was really just trying to drill down to understand things about myself, which I guess is therapy. I mean, I guess that that's what the point of therapy is. But but you know, it was more important to me to get to um some bedrock stuff in a thoughtful way. Um, And I guess in that way it was therapeutic. But it wasn't like I didn't feel like I was dredging up things that I hadn't I thought about before. It was just that I was maybe going a little bit deeper and in a little Um I was I was

I was drilling down and spreading out. I was fracking, is what I'm saying. I was fracking my psyche. Uh. Well, I was crying by the end of this thing. Uh and kind of here and there throughout him A pretty sensitive middle aged dad. So there were so many parts that just really really sweet stuff. And I'm curious, now, your son was headed to college. Did covid thwart that? Well, he did go, Um, but he had to come back uh spring break of his freshman year, and he hasn't

returned yet. Has that been pretty cool having him home? Yeah? I mean I think I have quite a few friends who got started way earlier than I did because my daughter is just six and they had kids that and I feel bad for the kids, But these parents are getting bonus time. You know that you don't think you're gonna get No, that aspect of it is is nice.

It is nice having him home, obviously, um. But at the same time, it's you know, I was just thinking last night as I was staring at him across the dinner table, like, dude, you need to get out of here, not just because you know he's gonna turn twenty and I just I just want him to go and and start his life. And it's hard when life just feels like it's on pause. But I think this is just gonna end up being a lost year, you know, and

he'll start beginning the fall. Well that means you're good dad, because you want your kids to go and spread their wings even though you you know, kind of want to keep them forever at the same time. It's good stuff, all right, man, Well we'll move ahead. Actually, uh, you know what, I did something that I've never done before, which is I sourced some listener questions from our Facebook page. If you would indulge a few of these, sure, yeah, alright. This is from one of our admins, and I think

it's a good question. Rebecca Robe, one of our long time listeners, says, I would love to know who was your favorite crew to work with. We talk a lot because I used to work on film sets and film cruise and what how that can kind of make your break and experience for everyone. And do you have a specific crew that you really really loved? Probably the crew from Ed, which is the NBC show that I did.

And the only reason I say it is just because the show was on for what three and a half four seasons or something sacloths about four seasons, and the crew is pretty consistent from start to finish, and so when we spent you know, months and months and months together every year, so we just got to know each other really well. Um. So you know, there is that cliche about how crews become like families, and you know, to some extent that's true. Like you, you you see

these people every day. But the difference between UH film crew and a family is that everybody in a film crew, you your paycheck demands on a certain uh level of professionalism, whereas your family membership does not. You don't need to be professional. So people have to act well, you know, they have to behave themselves on a film set, and that lends itself to a certain camaraderie I think that

you don't necessarily get from your own family. It was a pleasure, I mean, it's a pleasure working with them, all right. This next one comes from line of net Big fans so excited for this episode. The question is with such a broad history and the entertainment, stand up television, movies, writing, book writing. What's been your favorite medium for yourself. I don't have one. Uh. What I find enjoyable is not being in any one thing. I sort of like the

dilettante nature of my career. I like that I kind of flip from one thing to another because I get bored. You know, Um it would I think my career would be in much better shape if I had just stuck with one thing, if I'd just been like, I'm gonna be an actor and then I just really pursued acting.

But I you know, like Ed is a good example, where you're on a show for three and a half years and you're just acting on it and that's really fun and you love the people, and by the end of it, you're like, I don't know that I ever want to act again, you know, so you go do something else. Um, and you know, I've spent the last I don't know how long, uh, well, you know, before Quarantine, like I was really working hard on this book. And you know, as soon as you've done with a book.

I think every author feels like this. You're like, I never I'm never going to write anything else again, because this is terrible. Um, but then you know, so you go and do something else. You go do stand up and then you get sick of that, and so you go back to acting and UM. So you know the nature of my careers, I haven't been particularly successful in anything, um, but I've been able to do a lot of things,

which I like. That's cool. I imagine that's a lot of fun to kind of flit back and forth between different worlds Elliott. People says, and a lot of people asked this question. It was the most asked question about a Stellar reunion. Will we get more Stella? Elliott dressed up as a sunk person for Halloween as a teenager, and I really wants to see more. Uh. You know, Stella is like the state where we you know, I think we'd like to do something, and then just life

makes it hard. You know, everybody has kids, were separated geographically, we all end up with different projects and just the right moment hasn't happened where we can like get together and do something. I like to think there'd be more Stella. Um. For a lot of years, we were reuniting every year every other year at Sketch Fest in San Francisco and doing a couple of shows and those were really fun. Um, so yeah, hopefully I bet you could do Stella on

Broadway at this point, I mean they did. Oh hello, Uh this is from Sammy K. Hill. Is there a role that you've turned down that you regret or one that you auditioned? There's I mean I don't turn down roles. You know. It's like there's a there's a misperception among people who aren't in show business. It's like if you get offered a job, you take the job, like, well, the second are easy to come by. Pollion jobs that I came closer that I didn't get, Well, that's the

second question. Is you know one that you auditioned for that you really wanted and didn't get. The one that I really wanted that I didn't get was, um, what's his face? Is? Role? Uh? God? What is it? Uh? He's in Lord of the Rings. He's the little guy. He's very good. Oh Sean Aston or or no? Uh with the eyes. Yes, he ended up being to I can't think of it either. It was Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and he ends up he ended up in that. But it was like for a long time,

like I had auditioned for it. I met Michelle Gondry, I you know, did it. I had did audition with Mark Ruffalo and like they were like sort of swinging me along for a long time, and then I, I can't believe I can't remember his name. He's the nicest guy in the world. Elijah Wood, thank you. Elijah would and then Elijah would be came available and they were like, okay, we got Elijah Word, so thanks but no, no, no, yeah, that's a great movie. I could see you in that role. Yeah.

I could have seen me in that role too, but didn't happen. Um. And then the other thing is, and I don't know that I regret this or not, but it would have definitely put my life on a different corpse. Was to be the host of the Late Late Show. Craig Kilborn left. It was it came down to me or Craig Ferguson Um. And there was a moment. There were there were several days where I fought the job was mine, and then it wasn't. Do you do test shows and interviews and segments and stuff for I did

a week of hosting. Were they bringing guests and everything? Huh yeah, Yeah, I hosted the show for a week. Oh on TV on TV. Oh okay, I thought you meant this like an audition thing. Well it was. It was an audition to to air each audition audition I got you. Uh, if you could and this is the last one from Scott Hodgson, if you could play poker with anyone in history, who would it be? Um, somebody very wealthy and very bad at poker? Good answer. Um, all right, we will move on to your movie crush.

You originally picked Miller's Crossing, which is um, one of my favorite movies of all time, but sadly we had already covered that on the show with Ben Acker. Um. I don't know if you know Ben or not, but it's his favorite movie. And you moved on to Flirting with Disaster from written and directed by David o' russell. One of my favorite movies, one of my favorite directors. Uh. He's often talk about the percent club with these directors who have made nothing but like really great movies, and

David or russell is up there for me. He really great and Uh, Flirting with Disaster is one of my favorite comedies. I rewatched it in preparation for this because I hadn't seen it in a while. And there's just so much, so many funny things in it, um, little moments, um, And it doesn't what I it's it's you know, it's a very thin premise guy wants to meet his biological parents, adopted kid. But it's really full. I mean it's the characters are all really fleshed out. It's a great cast.

There's so much funny stuff in it, so many unexpected twists and turns, um. And it's just really well made. And what and I like that it was. I think it's David O. Russell's Like, first it was kind of real movie. I mean he made Spanking the Monkey before that many little black and white film um. And then I think Learning with Disaster was the next one. Yeah, that's right, and so as good as it is, I also feel like I'm seeing him kind of find his

own footing a little bit. Um, Like I feel like he's wearing his own influences a little bit more on his sleeve than he does for the rest of his career. Like you see so much well, I mean Woody Allen is the first thing that comes to mind. That's exactly what I was gonna say. I always forget about that beginning bit with the voiceover and the different faces of New York, these people that could possibly be his parents, and that is so Woody Allen. Oh yeah, I mean

so much of it is very Woody Allen esque. Um, and it's great. I mean, it doesn't feel he's not ripping anybody off by anything, but um, he uses the camera in different ways than Woody Allen ever did. Um. And the story is probably not a story Lillen would tell, but you can. But you know, you see it, and it's it's nice to see. Um. And there's just so

many good actors in it. And everybody's performance is really smart and funny and um, you know, as absurd as the movie gets, and it gets really absurd, you never feel like any of them are losing the plot that you know that they're they're never losing their characters. Um, they all stay like believable in the most unbelievable situations. Yeah. I mean it may be one of my favorite comedy

casts of all times. Um. Everyone with amazing people. So it starts with so the three leads are Ben Still or Patricia Arquette and I don't know if she pronounces a T or Ta Leoni, and I guess yeah, I think, um, all of whom have like such different energy and are all so good. Um. And then the supporting cast is unbelievable George Siegel, Mary Tyler Moore, Alan All to Lily Tomlin, Richard Jenkins, Josh Brolin. Um. When Fitzgerald, who has kind of a scene stealing part, uh, he took your role.

I was watching it last night. I was like, ship, that is Michael, Michael, he should have played Lonnie. I know that's the part I would play, but like, but but like I hate that I would be cast as Lonnie. But I absolutely would be like in my head, in my head, I'm the ben still apart, but I'm just I could see that now. I could see you playing Millie. I wish I was, Well, it is funny last night the whole time. I mean, Glynn Fitzgerald did such a good job as Lonnie. But when I was watching, I

was like, oh, man, it never occurred to me. And that's like I could totally see you, and I think that it would have been age appropriate, Like yeah, it would have been Yeah. I didn't even get I didn't even get the audition. Man. Uh. David Patrick Kelly in a very small part is Fritz Boudreau. I love that

section because they how quickly they immediately launch. I mean it's instantaneous as father and son two seconds after they meet each other, so, you know, punching each other on the shoulder, and it's so absurd and silly, but it's it's by it. By it, you totally buy it because you understand you sir, you definitely understand where Ben Stillers coming from. And they saw their character, the Fritz whatever his last name is, You're like, You're like, I know

that guy. Like that guy is believable to me. I feel like I've met that guy who will just turn on a dime from being your worst enemy to your best friend. Uh in a second and vice versa. Yeah yeah, and then back again. Uh old needle Dick. There's so many lines, Like my wife and I probably have more lines from this movie that we say in our real

life all these years later in any other movie. I think many many lines from You're Not Good B and B people uh to all the any time any either one of us is telling the other to like to touch something or feel something, we always go, you know, no used two fingers the Pottery's scene with Lily Ta Lily. Tomlin is just so amazing and he's always trying to

please everyone he meets. Each new set of potential parents, he just wants to like agree with what they're about, right, because he wants to be a part of it, you know, he wants to be part of that family. He wants to just know where he belongs. And it was the first time I feel like i'd seen Ben Stiller in

a in the straight man part. Yeah, I feel like at that point I knew him from the Ben Stiller's Show and kind of his impressions that he was doing, and he was doing like a lot of character stuff, and then he came and then he did this, and I thought like, and I can, and I've thought ever since, like he's just one of the best straight men who's

ever been. Um. He's just really really good at reacting UM and being human and taking and and and having the part where you're kind of seeing the world through his eyes, you know, which is a critical part of any film, Like we have to understand the world through kind of some point of view, and it's been Stiller's point of view, and we understand him. I feel like and we empathize with him and we you know, he's just really really good in it. Yeah. I mean there's

so many great moments of push and pull. Um. One of the sequences I'm that stands out as with when Josh Brolin and Richard Jenkins characters are added to the Fray and and it's one of my favorite lines when he says, uh, oh, there's nothing like the hold on a second, nothing like the cruel acceptance of the casual invitations when when they come with them to uh to any Antelope Wells and and you know, everything's falling apart, and Ben Stiller says something about yeah, and you know,

I'm gonna bring these two gay guys along with me too, and then all of a sudden, Brolin gets in his face and there's just there's just that great comedic tension. Right, So that's a great part. Yeah, and Brolin is really good in it. Uh god, yeah, just why did you say that? Gay guys? What what do you get? No? I didn't mean anything, right, It's just okay, neurotic guy. So what I am to you? I'm the neurotic guy. Yeah, that's what you are to me. You're the neurotic. It's

just funny. I mean, they're just really good and and and yeah, um it's just great acting. It's just great acting. I think we we did uh we covered Silver Linings Playbook a few weeks on the show, and it occurred to me watching this last night too, that David Russell does this controlled chaos so well. And there are so many scenes in his movies where and it's usually handheld camera and uh, it's it's almost like a hopped up

version of Robert Altman scene or something. He just does it so well and it's a really really hard thing to pull off, I think, to have the scene sort of still makes sense, and even to shoot it to block it out. And um, I just love those chaotic scenes that he puts in his movies. And he makes it look I mean I think the handheld aspect of it makes it look much more effortless than it is. Yeah, I mean it's really hard, particularly when you've got a

lot of characters. Uh, you know, when you've got six seven people in a scene and you're trying to make all of that makes sense and cut together and and be paced right and everything else like that's that's just a ton of work that's really hard to do. It is.

It also has a a thing that he does well in his movies that I love in movies is when everything feels like it's just gaining momentum as the story goes forward, and it's just sort of picking up steam and going faster and faster until you usually culminates in just this amazing third act. Uh. And of course in this movie is when they they finally land Antelope Wells with Alan Aldon really Tomlin and uh, oh man, it's

just wonderful. Yeah, and and and it turns into kind of like farce, I guess, with you know, people coming in and out of rooms and and doors opening and closing, and then there's sex stuff and um. But you know he's juggling a lot of balls, but you know he keeps them all aloft. It's it's great. It's really great. Yeah, that's I love it when movies do that, when they bring a group of people to a place and then split them up and then you can you can have

so much fun kind of inter cutting. Uh, you know, put rish Arquette up there with getting her armpit licked, Judge Rowland and then downstairs, you know, the revelation that uh that that there. You know we're former Acid while I guess still current Acid makers. Um. I think that's just such a rich, fertile land for comedy to be

able to cross cut between all these absurd moments. Yeah, and they're all like you know, like even Lonnie, as crazy as he is, is like a well drawn character, like you kind of understand his total resentment towards this new guy that's showing up saying brother, I mean, it's just it's just it's just really well crafted. That. That's another one of the lines that we always say is when either one of us is repeating a story to someone else, we always go Jerry Garcia blah blah blah.

It's gotta become our shorthand in a lot of ways. Um god, it's hard not to just say favorite lines over and over and over, which doesn't make for a very good podcast. Um, Broland, this is sort of the this is gonna really early on in his kind of Brolan two point oh career. Uh what was one point? Oh? Well, the Goonies, which you didn't see evidently, right you still haven't seen it? No, oh wow, you should see the Goonies.

It's gonna have any interest. That's one of those movies that I'm gonna go to my grave never having seen because I know I'm not gonna it's not gonna evoke any nostalgia, right, So I'm not you know, it's not gonna it's it's not gonna scratch any itch that I might have. I feel like, let me just let it

live in a lure. But yeah, I mean that was his big, kind of first movie, and then he did a lot of smaller things and then this kind of relaunched the second phase of his career, I think, and I didn't do too much after for a little bit, and then all of a sudden seems like became, you know, one of the bigger, you know, kind of tough guys in uh in Hollywood. But he's so funny in this. He should do more comedy to think, Yeah, he's great.

I mean, look, if you're gonna make the argument to me that Josh Brolin is great and I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna fight back, let maybe like, yeah, I agree with you. I'd like to see David o'russell do another kind of more straight ahead. I mean, there's a lot of comedy in many of his films, but something just so fun like this. There's elements of slapstick, it's kind of a road movie. It's uh situational comedy. He really throws a lot into the mix in like ninety

minutes here and just pulls it all off somehow. Yeah, I mean, I guess you know. His next film was Three Kings, right, was that his very next one? Yeah? I think that might be my favorite of his movies. Um, but like you know, clearly his vision for what he wanted to do was maybe I don't know, broader is the right word, but he had you know, he had a grander vision for for the kinds of stuff he wanted to do. And flirting with Disaster very much feels like a huge step on that path, and then Three

Kings is another big step on that path. I'd be I would love to see him do another comedy like this, just like it's straight up comedy comedy. It would be, Yeah, it would be. It would be awesome. And and I wonder I'm gonna text him and see if he's thought about it. I don't know, in middle I've never met him. I'm curious how he got these because it was really you know, Spanking the Monkey was a sort of a

sun Dance hit, but very very small movie. Like you were saying, I wonder how he got these legends, Allen all the Seagull, Lily Thomlin, and Mary Tyler Moore. I wonder how he even got them in this film. Well it's a mirror Max film, right so, and I think, uh so, I think, yeah, Spanking the Monkey became a Sundance starling. And then I assume like the Weinstein's took him under their wing, and I guess he was just kind of like the hot new guy I would I

would imagine. And then maybe when still are signed on, maybe it just made it much easier to to get everybody. I don't know, it'd be I'd be curious to find out about to talk a little bit. Patricia Arquette is fantastic in this movie. I feel like she's totally underrated just as as as an actress. Every time I see her, I'm like, oh, yeah, Patricia Arquette is great. She is. There's a moment every time I see this movie there's

a moment that I didn't notice before. And last night it was just in the beginning and the opening credits when she's in her her little lingerie getting ready for their date, and then the credits are still rolling and she plucks off rose petals and and plucks them down her shirt and then tucks one between her legs under

her little negliche. And I never know her but her it's not just that she does it, which she does and it's funny, and I don't know if that was directed or not, but then her her reaction to herself doing that was really good too. And I remember noting that action. Now I can't even remember what the reaction was, but I remember thinking, God, that's really good. Like whatever you're doing there is just really honest. And and she just is so open to the camera. She's just so

emotionally available to whatever is going on around her. That's what makes her so great. I think, Yeah, I think she does. She kind of giggles almost when she maybe that's what it is, she kind of giggles, And I mean it looked like she just sort of did it on the spot, probably improbbed it and then laughed at what she was doing. Um. But she's also stars in True Romance, which I think is just on one of my favorites. We haven't done that on the show yet.

I'm surprised no one to pick that one yet. She does that. She has this natural thing. Just the way, just the way she says a line to me is just very believable. And that's a that's a really hard thing to do as an actor. That's what I mean by like, she just like you just don't you don't see her acting at least I don't like, I just don't see the the acting. I just see her reacting

and being Um, that's really hard. I mean it's for somebody like me who's a total ham and self conscious and always sees him self acting, Like, to see somebody do that, it just I'm always kind of awestruck. Yeah, yeah, it's it's amazing. Um, I want to talk a little bit about that. And when you know, I was talking about the movie sort of gaining momentum and the chaos, and then it really culminates when Lonnie doses, Uh what were they They're not FBI? What are they? Are they there? Tobacco,

alcohol and firearms? Whatever? That Yeah, a t f um. When they dose him with let's D and the table scene is getting kind of funny and you know, if you the first time you see it, don't really notice, but he starts coming on at the table and he's just sort of reacting and sort of looking at things and shaking his out a little bit. But once you've seen it, you sort of key in on him in that scene and it's just I mean, Richard J. Kids

is just amazing and everything he's in. But from that moment on, some of the funnier drug writing uh as towards this actual lines that people might say that I've seen in movies, and he plays it early. Where's Your Jenkins plays being on an acid trip really well, Like that's a hard I think I've never tried it, but I think that's a really hard thing to do as an actor, you know, to be like yeah, to just like the keyed into that and have it be believable.

And you see him like struggling to make sense of the moment and being like I'm arresting you, but still clearly and like part of him is there, part of him isn't there. It's great, It's just great. Yeah. The very first thing he says, is this a musical table? Is this a musical table? And he has his ear down and when you watch it for the first time and like I'm trying to remember the first time, I was like, oh, ship, this is amazing, like where this is headed? Uh? And you know, one of the great

music cues of all time. And I'm no grateful dead fan, but when when trucking is playing and you can't catch the wind and he's running through the desert is just one of the great moments movie has treated me. And you know, it's like eight hours later, you know it's he's been going through this for so long because he like quadrupled, does him or something? Three or four a half taps, two and a half taps. I'm sorry, I put window pane. We always laugh at that that line.

I mean your wail, yeah on your coail. It's uh. I mean, what can you say about him and this in any comedy that you can watch. I mean, I've probably seen this movie ten times, and my wife and I watched it last night and laughed throughout the entire thing like it was the first time we've seen it. Well, what's great is when you know the first time you watch something you laugh because of this unfolding and you know you're you're experiencing it. The way the characters are.

You're seeing it for the first time, but then on subsequent viewings you start to pick up everything that everybody's doing person by person, and yeah, that those those moments are always really fun because you feel like, oh, I'm in on a secret club, like I understand something about this film. Um that's deeper than just what I would have seen on a first viewing. Yeah, and it ends up being a very sweet sort of uh story too. And but he doesn't hit you over the head with it.

I think he could have been a lot more um saccharin about the whole thing with the character realizes that, you know, his own family is his real family and all that stuff. But I think he just handled it just in a pitch perfect way how he doled that out. Yeah, I mean he doesn't. Yeah, he definitely doesn't knock you on the head with it. He's just like, yeah, I

mean that's that is the ultimate realization. And it's lovely And it's not just the bends still a Patricia Arquette family, Like, it's it's all the families are those are the those those those are the people that you know they're stuck with for better, for worse. That there, and and you know it feels like for all them it's for the better, Like you're just seeing different models of relationships and and understanding that every marriage, they say in the film, every

marriage is fragile. Yeah, And he's just showing you all the different ways they can be. Yeah. And the the I think the little sometimes it's the sort of little decisions you make as a filmmaker. You can really glue it together. And I think in this case it's the naming of the baby. They throw that out at the beginning. It's a great little setup. Then it comes around at the end and it's just such a nice little bookend.

I think, Yeah, it's just really well constructed script. I have one final line that I'm gonna throw on you well too, the conversation between Lily Tomline and Alan Aldo with the dispass at Colin. Yeah, she goes, I'll do reflex, I'll do reflex. Yeah. And but but I love it like you're seeing her considerate, like you're seeing like you're seeing the gears tumbling in her mind. She's like thinking about which thing she's gonna do. She's like she's got

a little rolodex of stories that she can go through. Okay, she's gonna do reflex and it and it's great. All right, I'll do reflex. I'll do reflex. So great. Uh. And then at the end with Richard Jenkins, um, you know how his story culminates. He's standing there in his sport code and his underwear and uh, still flying and says

I had an experience. I resisted at first, and then it evolved and it continues to evolve, and you get the sense like he's not going back, like he took his trip and he arrived at a destination and you feel like, oh yeah, good, we we like you at this new destination. So great. Uh, well, thanks man, I appreciate you coming on and picking this great movie for me to watch again. Um, and appreciate your time. Oh yeah, my pleasure was really fun and everyone should go out

and get a better man. A mostly serious letter to my son. Any other books you want to plug or all of them? Um, you know, Frankenstein is good. I'm reading that right now. If you haven't read Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, it's good. You know what my wife said the other day, I was kind of throwing that old dumb joke at her, said you know, Frankenstein is the doctor and she said, well, who was the robot? So I've been giving your shit about that for three weeks now root. All right, man,

thanks a lot, and uh and I'll talk to you soon. Okay, my pleasure, Thanks Jack, Bye, alright, everyone. I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. He was. He's a great guy and super nice, super nice dude. Very kind of him to take some time out to talk about flirting with disaster in his career. So much fun talking about all that state stuff. Um to get to ask him listener questions, that's a that's a new thing

that I really enjoyed. I think I'll do more of that. Uh. And I just loved how open he was and about the talking about the state. I wasn't quite sure. Sometimes people don't like to talk about that stuff. And he was very generous with his answers and with his honesty and with his time. So big thanks to Michael Ian Black. Go out and get his book A Better Man, A mostly serious letter to my son, Or check out children's books that he's written. Uh. They're all great, and he's

a he's a wonderful writer as well as actor. And comedian, so big thanks to him, and thank you guys for listening and we'll see you next week. Movie Crash is produced and written by Charles Bryant and Roll Brown, edited and engineered by Seth Nicholas Johnson, and scored by Noel Brown here in our home studio at Pontsty Market, Atlanta, Georgia. For I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.