Jason Jenkins on Being There

became a good friend right away. And as I tell him, I had the great opportunity to tell someone something face to face that was meaningful, which is something that everyone should do when you get the chance. And I was gonna put it in an email over the years, but I finally got to sit down with Jason and tell

him what a impact he had on my life. Uh. He was a big influence culturally, introduced me to so many things, took my life in a in a direction culturally that I was might not have gone in otherwise, who knows. And I listed off some things that he introduced me to, and then since we recorded, I kept thinking of more things and I texted him things like D'Angelo and Frank Sinatra in earnest and uh, it's just the list goes on and on. Jason's a great dude.

He has done a very interesting thing with his lifestyle and that he uprooted his family in the States and said we're gonna live all over the world. And he's lived in Tokyo and Spain and Malaysia and Thailand in Mexico and it's really cool. He's got a blog in a podcast called an Epic Education where he details this stuff. And if you are interested in doing something radical with your life and moving your family all over the world, uh Ja sends a good person to get some good

advice from, and he is open to it. Great guy, great old friend. And we had a wonderful talk about his movie Crush the Fantastic hal ashby Peter Seller's Jim from Envy and Nine being there. So here we go with Jason Jenkins on being there. Pull that a little closer. Yeah, sorry, sounds right. You can sit back, you can just pull the mic you need to do to be comfortable. Um, we were, and we came back to Japan about six months ago, and before that we were in Mexico for

about two years. Right, we were in the Yokatan, Mexico. Man, it would have been great to see it. It's a it's a killer place. It gets a really bad rap here, and I mean deservedly. So there's some some rough spots, but throw the whole country out as ridiculous. That's a whole conversation. It looks amazing. Emily and I want to go to Wahaka at some point, all right, right, right right, okay, Uh that's my sister got married there really yeah, yeah, she up married six years ago at this really cool

place called Puerto Wescondido. And then it's the best wedding I've ever been, best family memory we've ever had. It's amazing, like you know, the bioluminescence where you know, the glow in the dark sky and then like you know, releasing sea turtles. Your your girl would love it and you would love it just because it's kind of laid back and not crowded. Well we're big into free to callow too, So it's a lifelong dream to go to the casa.

Did I tell you? Like when when my girl and I went to Cossa Azul, we listened to the stuff you should know, free to go, Free to call morehand and it was it was awesome. Yeah, that's great. Mexico City. If you want to city escape, Mexico City rocks. If it was a little more stable, we would live there. I mean as far as museums and food and culture and events and like cool neighborhoods to walk around. It's it's amazing. It's amazing. It looks like Europe in a

lot of ways. Well, just for the benefit of the listener, I want to explain kind of because I want to plug what you've got going on too, because you this is my friend Jason from college, which we'll get into that in a second too, because I have a lot of like thanks that I need to give you that's

long overdue for some things. I don't know about that, but okay, but uh, you made a radical choice, which is, you know, it's only radical in view of the regular American way, but the radical choice many years ago when you got married and had kids, to do something a little different with your life and to move all around the world with your family. And uh, you have started. What all do you have now? Do you have a podcast and a blog or you still have the blog?

Oh definitely got the blog going on. The podcast has been on hiatus for about a year. Okay, well, because see my guests, this is actually my first experience to have a podcast face to face, like in a studio, because you do remote stuff. Well, my podcast was all about family travel. I was always interviewing family travelers who are a not experienced with pod casts and be always in some far flung place with spotty WiFi and in

the studio. So it's someone in Peru with a dog barking outside, or it's someone in Cambodia and her husband is like zipping the suitcase behind her, like can you stop that? You know? But when we were in Mexico recently are they were putting fiber optic into our neighborhood and it was just so the but the wife I was on and off. So I just kind of put it on hold. And then we were moving back to Japan and so so but I'm I'm making it going again.

So it's called an epic education. Uh. And where all of you lives now since where you started in Japan? Just give us the rundown. Okay, Well, I'm crazy awesome. I left the States in you and I, which we may get it too, were college buddies, and I graduated in ninety four, and I taught elementary school for three years. Ok, that's where I was teaching. I taught in South Florida, and then I taught in South Atlanta, and I was, um,

I was getting a little stressed out. I was, you know, I was intentionally working in whatever out at risk neighborhoods for lack of a better teaching art. I was the art teacher. So I saw all the kids in the school, but I was, at least in Florida, I was having chairs thrown at me, you know, got stabbed with the colored pencil and the scissors once or twice, you know. And so which I mean, I chose that job. That's

what I wanted to do. I wanted to be the you know, the hero of dangerous minds or something to do what I mean. But after three years, I was getting Uh, I needed a break. This is pre internet, you know. And I heard people taught English abroad. So I went to Taiwan. Actually I mean, and I'll truncate this story. So I went to Taiwan, taught English there

for a few years. Uh, then moved to Tokyo and lived there for thirteen years, and moved in from business English teaching into I got a job with the newspaper and then an ad agency. And then your wife is Japanese wife of Japanese. We we met here. She was a school teacher in in Atlanta, and she sends her regards. She wanted me to tell you hello, long it's been a while. It's been a minute maybe since she Well, we'll talk. I don't know if we want to talk

about that, but but but anyway, so uh um. Basically, I moved to Taiwan and and then she followed me back. She left the States and came over, and then we moved together to Tokyo and we lived there for thirteen years. I knew you were there for a long time, and uh And that's where the kids were born. And then in I was working for an ad agency. She was working for a bank, and we just didn't see her

kids anymore. We just we were we called ourselves a tag team single parents, because you know, I would pick him up one night and she would come home at eleven, and then she would pick him up the nice and I would come home at eleven. So we wanted to make a change. So I worked out something with my company to work remotely, which is a whole story in itself that i'll I'll spare you now. And uh, we

started kind of moving around right. We went back to Taiwan to show the kids, you know, this place that we loved so much, and then Chang Mai, Thailand, and then Malaysia and that was two months each. It was too fast, and so then we went back to Malaysia. We lived in Malaysia for a year, and then we went to Spain and lived in Valencia, Spain for two years.

That wasn't sucked, it was terrible. And then uh, and then we went to Mexico and we lived We started in the Yokatan Peninsula for a few months and it didn't really click. And then we went to the sort of the what do you call it, the high plains in central Mexico, a place called San Miguel Day end Day, and ended up staying there for almost two years. And that brings us up to this summer. And uh, this summer we moved back to Japan. This time we're in Osaka, Keiko.

My wife's family is in Osaka and the kids, Uh, this is sort of the last chance for them to experience home. For you, guys, does it feel like home. Japan doesn't, even though I've been there at least once or twice a year since since my wife's family. But uh, but we wanted to kind of live there. I was thrilled to be back in Japan after the time away. I love living in Japan. I didn't like working in Japan. I mean, I didn't like the kind of hours and

stuff that I was having to put in. But uh, you know, the kids first language is Japanese and they can't speak it. Now really they're there. I mean the boys, all right, the girl can barely speak, but they're fluent in Spanish and they're fluent in English, which they weren't when we left. They were not. I mean, they could speak,

but they couldn't read or write on their level. So we kind of we left and worked on their English, and then we moved to Spain and we put them in local Spanish schools where they made friends, and then the same thing in Mexico. So so there, you know, and they just didn't identify with that side of themselves, so we wanted to go back. Or that's one of many reasons. But the boy's gonna graduate in two years and he's it's going to go off to college. So this is yet he has no idea America or he's

looking at, um, some places in the States. We're gonna do a couple college tours. We'll go to California in the spring and then come to the East Coast in the uh in uh um in the summer. He you know, he still has a bunch of buddies in Spain and various places, and so he may look at Europe, but probably the States. It all depends, you know, on a variety of factors. He doesn't he's seventeen. He wanted he doesn't know what he wants right right? So what is it? Um?

What's it been like? And what's it been like for your kids? I know, like to do something like this, everyone's got to be game somewhat. Um. How much pushing and pulling was there? Or is it like you would think it is in a movie where everyone's just like, great dad, where are we gonna what's the next adventure? How I wish it was like that, Like what are the ups and downs and the benefits and the bad things? There's I mean, there's definitely been uh you know, there's

been pros and cons. I think the pros are Our kids were you know, sheltered in a way almost like Japanese kids, right, you know, because that's where they grew up. And they're much more uh self confident, and we're sourceful.

They can handle themselves. I mean, we just let our sixteen when he was sixteen, he backpacked through Europe this summer on his own so well with a bunch of friends, but like but a bunch of other seventeen eighteen year old kids, and so you know, he can kind of swing that kind of stuff and he can manage a lot of different things. In our girl, you know, she's she's she's got it together in a lot of ways.

The downside of that is that they were just tired of moving around eventually, I mean they were they were meeting friends that basically when we moved, when we moved to Mexico, it was like, can we stop moving around? We want to stay in one place for a while. And when that happens, is it like as parents, you've got to heat that request. They're they're feedback, you know is a big part of it, you know, and so but uh, you know, and so we thought make skill

might be that and it was. It was great for the time that we were there, but the schools weren't really prepping the boy for for college that I wanted. And also at the same time, we realized that they couldn't speak Japanese and this was the last chance, so we decided to go back. So when he graduates in whatever it is, one, I guess we'll you know, he'll head off and then we'll decide, you know, our daughter has a vote, and like we're gonna stay in Japan

and we're gonna move somewhere else. With the States, it'll be, you know, she'll she'll be in that feedback. Are you ever going to live in the States again? I don't know. I felt like maybe I feel like when you left all those years ago, when you left, I felt like, this is it. Jenkins is never going to come back. I hadn't thought about moving back in a long time. Um, but it depends on where my kids are if they if they wanted to move here, sure you want to,

you know, I'd want to be a little close to them. Yeah, I mean it all. It all depends on what's go went on in the States as well. But uh, I'm not I haven't written it off. But it's not It's not my first choice right now. I'm happy to be back in Japan for a while. What is your family, uh thought about all of this? Well, I mean they thought, like I thought when I left, I was going for a year, and that's all I was. I was going to go. So I was the only one that knew

that child astradamis over here. Yeah, they they thought I was gonna leave for a year and I did too, and I was like, I'm not ready to come back, and I stayed, and you know it, probably the first five years they were like when are you gonna come back? And then they realized I'm probably not, at least not anytime soon. So so, but it's been tough, you know. I mean I'm the only kid with grandkids. My sister never had kids. My brother may may not, I don't know,

but it doesn't have it yet. So you know, for my parents has been kind of tough. So, I mean you were talking about some of the downside. You know, I adore my parents and it you know, it hurts them. Do that, Um, may I take off my shoes whatever you want. You can take off all your clothes, Jason, I've seen that body before. Uh So what Um, what would you like to tell people to seek out of yours? Huh? What would I want them to see of mine? Because

I know there are a lot of people. I know for sure we have listeners that live in Japan right now, some really active movie crushers, and I know that they there are people that are interested in doing things like this, and I think people can be scared away from it. It's intimidating. Um, and I think you could be a

good resource for encouraging this kind of lifestyle. Sure, well, you know, maybe before I say you know where to point people towards when you say you have friends or listeners in Japan, let me just tell you that you have listeners all over the place. I have bumped into people in your multiple countries. I thought I wrote you about that. Maybe I didn't, but I've had I've had people in multiple countries. You know, when you start talking about podcasts, like oh have you heard this one? Stuff

you should know? And I'm like, hey, yeah, I actually do. And they don't just say oh you know that guy, They go, you know, Chuck Bryant. It's so funny. Yeah, I've had people come at my sister's wedding in Mexico, somebody like basically pushed everybody out of it and came up to me. And there's there's been I mean, and uh, you know, let me just take a moment to say I'm thrilled for you man than dude. We would have

never how do I put this? You know, I would have never predicted that this would have been your career path. But of course not. We didn't even know what a podcast was. But to see, you know, the kind of success you've had and the sort of you know, being able to do something you love. I love it. I love it. I'm really really happy for you. I appreciate it and I for you. So we met. We'll tell people where to where to find you. Just my My website is www dot and epic education dot com. The podcast,

the old podcast episodes are there. And then I've got a lot of pieces on you know, saving money or how to do this, or how to deal with flights with with kids on long term and travel gear and hotel a lot of you know we were we've done Yeah maybe didn't mention that, but you know, we've done homeschooling. We pulled our kids, our kids were in local schools in Japan when we left, and then as we moved around, we did homeschooling or we would put them in local

schools in various places. We've done a variety of different things, and I've I've written about it and kind of given tips on our experience, and we made a ton of mistakes so people can learn from those. But uh, but yeah, there's you know where to stay, what to take with you, and what not to take with you, and then the podcast is just a different traveling family. Some articles are about traveling with little kids and others are about a

specific destination. They're all over the place, and so if I fire it back up, I may give it a more focus one particular thing because it was kind of all over the place. But are you on Twitter or anything? I am? I am. That's uh an epic e d u all because I think you would be comfortable that people hit you up, Yeah, absolutely personally for questions instead. Sure, sure,

a lot of people right into the blog. Um maybe I should say a lot of people lately have been writing in about the Spanish like residency visa because we I mean, I wrote these long pieces because it was a it was a saga to get that as an American citizen, you know, when you're you you can stay. So a lot of people write me about that, and I'm happy to help if I can. But Spain bureaucracy is always changing. You'll get a different answer in every office.

So a lot of people write me on questions that they're already in the post somewhere, or I can't really answer it because this was my experience three years ago and may have changed. So if you're listening right now, when you want to move to Spain and you want to get the permanent residency, or you want to get your kid into FIFA football like my son did ye, I'm happy to help if I can, but I may not have the answer because the rules are changing all the time. Uh. And what is your job right now?

What are you doing? Actually just just the blog? That's great. For a couple of years, I was um, I was working part time, you know, when I was talking about arranging something with my job. I worked for an agency in in Tokyo and I was just a glorified copywriter. Did you work for Nikon? Well that was our client was our clients, So you know a lot of camera brochures up until if you looked at a dslr uh

brochure that was me. Yeah, well, basically it's translated. And then I kind of, uh, you know, it would depend on the camera. You know, I would have to sort of massage the text for because it was all, you know, translated by camera nerds and engineers and so oh it's an entry level I have to write this the way a housewife would want to read it, and pro I have to write it the way the pros were. And so I got to go on some commercial shoots. That's how I met you that last time when at the

premier at the Center of Puppetry Yards. Remember that. Hell yeah, I was coming back from Costa Rica. We were shooting a commercial with Moose Peterson, this nature photographer. But um, I'm getting lost track of time. So that's what I used to do. And then when I proposed to them to you know, to like not come in the office anymore, there was a whole lot of my job and I couldn't do what do you think about me not showing up exactly? So I basically just I proposed cut my

salary in half and let's see how this works. And and it worked for three and a half I guess of the last six years, Yeah, which was great. And then but you know, nikon Canon, all of are getting hammered because everybody using their phones now so so their budgets got lower. And my boss, who was a friend, he's like, I don't know how much longer I can go. I said, it's all right, you know, you let me go.

Need But by that point, you know, we were using some of our savings and using money that the blog was coming in. I mean, we're not rolling in Doughe by any means. And anybody who has questions about this, you make a lot of sack defics. Yeah, to to live this way. Sure, so so that was a big part of it. That's awesome, man. I have so much respect for the move, the moves that you've made and

doing something different. I think like growing up watching movies like about these like the Mosquito Coast and these kind of it's always presided in films as these crazy crazy dads. Uh well, yeah, I mean there's a probable it maybe a little bit of that, but it's also so rooted in practical things like you still have to educate your kids, you still gotta uh so, I gotta get the job if you know, in different places, and it's a lot to do that if you're single or you're just a

young couple. But when you got kids, you gotta make your family. Man, you gotta make sure they have a place to sleep well. I mean, if it was just if it was Keko and just to feel secure, stay in dingy little places and save every every dollar for some big ticket items. But you can't do that, right. You gotta be able to. It's really cool, man, so cool. So we met in college and I was telling Emily the story last night. We got hired on the same day.

We started on the same day at MEXICALI Grill as Chip Boys, and um, it was a steam title I've ever held. I think. Yeah, I didn't know that it was gonna be such a fortuitous thing. Um, not only meeting you, but the things that have happened in my life because of that job, that dumb job. I met you, and through you, I met Clay, were still one of my great friends. Through Clay and you, I met Bill, who's still one of my great friends. Through that job,

I met Justin, still one of my best friends. You're Justin. I met Timmy, so one of my great friends Meredith extet. We remember Meredith, right, we're in touch, Like we lost touch for a long time, but we're now back in great touch. So you want to go to New York. Um, the list goes on. It's like that weird Mexican restaurant, like non existent. Now it's gone, it's gone. But that is just amazing. How it's crazy, man, Like, what would have happened had I not gone in there for that

job that summer? Uh? And then through meeting you. So here's the thanks of gratitude. Um. I was coming out of high school as a as a Baptist boy, um, sort of starting to explore different thoughts and pathways in life and alternate ways of looking at the world that weren't just through the church. You are a preacher's kid who got a head start on that stuff. Uh, and preacher's kids like, there's one of a few ways you

can go. I think you can. You can really rebel and be bad, you can super follow in the footsteps, or you can kind of go in that middle area, which is I think where you went. I guess you could a certain degree, Yeah, for sure. I mean I rebelled a lot and did lots of stupid stuff, but I was still I'm still comfortable in their world. Yeah, I mean it's not my world for you know, the lack of a better phrase, but I'm still completely comfortable. I go, you know, you know, I go to church

with them. When I come back and you don't feel like your skin is burning. No, no, no, no, not anymore anyway. But uh no, but I adore them there. They walk the walk. They live the life. Their parents are great, They're they're awesome, and they they lived the life that you know that they profess everyone should live. And I admire them for that. Yeah, they're they're good people.

And uh so you had a bit of a head start on um sort of everything that I caught up to later, and you really like you, You took you sent me on a different path more so than anyone else did I you did uh musically, I mean I could there's a laundry list of things I could live. You literally turned me onto like you're the one who came over and said, fucking we're watching Reservoir What dogs tonight?

I saw this movie with me. I don't know if you remember that, right, you guys, just get your ship and come over and that's fine, And uh watched that movie for the first time with you do. You introduced me to Jim Jarmash, You introduced me to Miles Davis. You introduced me to Moment the Flaming Lips and the Butthole Surfers and Salvador Dolly and the Church of the SubGenius and like, oh, what a great list. I don't

think I could I could keep going. But I don't think you realized at the time, because we were just kids that I was just this sponge soaking up whatever you threw my way. Uh. And I don't think I realized till later what a big impact that had on me because that it was amazing, man, that sent me in a direction. Uh. And you always did it in a way that was like it was never oh you haven't heard of this, or right with that sort of

snobby like yeah, man, it was always you. You've always had this joy about it all and like, oh, man, can't wait to play you some bebop music, or you've got to see this movie because you will love it, not because like I wanted to share with my friends. That was like, man, I just want you got to see this. It was I mean, it was annoying, I'm sure sometimes it was always amazing, just really open mindes to a lot of stuff, and I'd like, honestly, oh

you're a huge debt. Thank you man. Well, oh man, the pleasure is all mine and I miss your recommendation. So we need to get that dialogue going again. Yeah, sure, sure, sure, I'm not as in the loop, you know, by any means that you used to be. I know, I like what I like, but uh, it doesn't have to be the coolest new hit band. You know. Well basically, you know, I used to I used to write for the Japan Times about various music and it was just it was an easy way to get into shows for free or

meat or meat bands that I liked, you know. I

got all Diplow and inter poll and all. Yeah that's all that kind of stuff, because you were shooting a lot of the festivals and yeah, well I was working at the Fuji Rock Festival managed uh, I mean, and it's the English language team that I got Clay a job on that one time, and when he came back there, remember that it was But um about when I stopped writing about that, I just I don't know, I like I still explore new music, for sure, movies, but but not with the kind of rabid news you know, maybe

you get visit. It was I can't remember if it was David Letterman interviewing Conan O'Brien or the other way around, but Letterman talked about when he was ready to quit. It was like when he came home and his wife or his kid asked him, like, who was on the show tonight? He was like, I don't remember, and well, I think I was like that with music. I was just consuming and not you know, and then just you know,

going out and grabbing more. And now I'm kind of cherishing. See, I've been gone for twenty years, so when I come back, I like to listen to whatever, the classic rock Station three. It's like, oh my god, it's Creez. You know Creed Its clear kids. Have you ever heard this? You know, they have no clue, So it's fun. Yeah. I mean, I've kind of I always told myself that I'm never going to stop seeking out new like independent music, and I kind of have in a lot of ways because

you know, how does he get busy? But I still try and at the end of the year, I'll read end of yr list of people I trust, and I'll pick out a few things. It's just not quite as much. But I still go to live music all the time. Are you still playing? You got a band? Right? Yeah? We still play with and Chris and Jim, I says the drummer. All right, okay, very cool. If you ever met Jim, I know the name because he's in that same circle, but I haven't. He's a friend from high school.

So it's like all these friends, we all ended up living like within four or five miles of each other in Atlanta, after many of us going in many different directions for many years. Uh well, because you know, I kind of lost touch with Clay for a while, and we've all kind of converged as adults here and it's kind of it's great, and you know, some of us have kids, and it's great. I'd love to hang out

with your kids. At some point. Bill's daughter, why, it is awesome and we hang out with her some and uh, it's kind of this two point oh phase. That's I mean, your kids are graduating now, but it's fun now having our kids be friends with each other. Sure, yeah, absolutely, it's just a really it's something to be cherished. I think you know, I agree and fostered like I don't like that we've lost touch as much as we have, we have it. Now we're back. I'm glad I got

to thank you in person. I was going to send it in an email one time. That's humbling. Thank you. I having here, Redsward Dogs, Flaming Lips, Jesus Lizard, Miles Davis, Jesus Lizards music. Now, Miles Davis opened up the whole jazz world. So that right, it's not just Miles Church of SubGenius take a planets. I think that's it as far as the list goes. Um, you knew Chuck Johnson passed away, didn't you? Did you hear that? You wrote me?

You wrote, Okay, that's right. Yeah, that's how I found out. Yes, I don't know. I don't know what happened, but I adored that. I think he had a aneurysm and just drop dead alone. It was horrible. I know, it's uh, it was terrible. Chuck was one of our fellow waiters. Chuck was the first really good gay friend that I had. That's why everyone from those days still call me Chucky, because there was already Chuck that worked there. So a lot of those Mexicaliti people still call me Chucky on

Facebook and stuff. Meritithectent still calls me Chucky. Yes, after all these years. But it was really sad to lose Chuck, and I was I was trying to get together a little reunion and didn't get around to it. But that's something that we should probably do at some point. That'd be great. I'd love to see all of those those kinds. Should we talk? Yeah, sure, being there, let's do it. I watched it last night. This is the how Ashby film from nine, obviously starring the great Peter Sellers, who

just got his a biography two days ago. Showed up in the mail that I know is just going to ruin everything because he was he was kind of a monster apparently, so he was like, you know, borderline personality disorder. Yes, I don't know if he was always that way, if it was like that near the end. Now, I think he was always that way and a really tough person

in real life. Uh And and admitted, um, I mean one of the reasons I did a lot of research on this one, uh self admitted fan of chance or Chauncey Gardner and this role because he felt like he identified with him as an empty vessel. An empty vessel. Yeah, I read I read something like that too. Yeah, and he was very well known for um, for no one really knowing who Peter Sellers was, because he's always in character. He always fell into some role and didn't really come

out of it until the next one came along. Right. But not a good husband, not a good father. Uh. And I'm I wanted to read this book because he's just I'm such a fan of his work. And I know what it's what's going to be in there, right, um, and it's not gonna be pretty, but I read it anyway. Well, this is one of my favorite movies. But I you know, I can't say I'm some uh Peter Seller's aficionado or something.

I think I love the Pink Panther movies because I love to watch my dad laugh you know during those I mean stick, I thought there was nothing funnier when I was again the same same I mean, I laugh, My dad has one of those laughs that just is contagious. So so we we even watched those now. But I wasn't a fan of of Doctor Strange Love really well, I mean I saw it once time ago. It was too slow paced, and I never watched it again. Now that we've I've kind of done this research and watched

this movie, i'd probably like it now. But being there, there was something about it that I connected with, and then I watched it, and we'll probably get into sort of the the sort of analogies that are made for work today passed. But I watched it maybe ten years ago during the w years and thought, you could put this movie outright, You could put this movie out tomorrow and if the film quality in the clothes didn't give it away, it would look like it was just made yesterday. Um. Now, yeah, yeah,

I'm sure. Well, you know, there'll be some part of that. We'd get into that. But uh, you know, out of all the movies you told me to send you some movies, and I looked at my list and it's the only sort of quiet, subtle movie. All my other favorite movies are Bombasted, Indiana Jones and Baron Munchausen and Iron Monkey and all this sort of like in your face and then there's Being There, which is this singular, uh subtle gym, you know. But yeah, but it's still it's still Connects.

I watched it, you know, I watched it a week or so ago, so before this, and it's just as good as it was then. I totally agree. Um My entree into this film was Believe it or not, the Mad Magazine parody real Yeah, So I don't know if you're into Mad, but I was a nut for Mad Magazine growing up, and they had their big film parodies.

It was, I think usually to each issue where they would parody a film, and I remember it was called being Not All There, and APPROPRIATE read that before I saw the movie because I was you know, I was a little kid and nine year old and Gosie being there and uh then saw the movie years later. But it's funny I've had I had a few of those were Mad, like that's the Exorcist spoof and the Aniguable Horror spoof to look into that, and a bunch of those that I saw, like way before I saw the films,

before you saw the film. Oh that's class absolutely, Well, maybe this is the right point to say. Another unique thing I find about Being There is well, let me back up and say, once we decided on doing Being There, I grabbed the book and I read it Okay, so you did well. I audio book, but it's a very short book. It's only like the audio book itself was like three hours. I mean I listened to it on a you know, on a trip to Kyoto to check

that out. It's really good, and it would be it would be one of the only books or one of the only kind of stories I could say that I would recommend reading it after seeing it. I hate to read a book after I see the movie, even after the trailer, because the characters are burned in and I don't I don't formulate my own characters, right. I see the faces, but the story is smaller. That's another unique thing, the story. They actually flesh the story out. There's characters

that don't exist in the story in the book. Uh you know, there's whole sort of subplots and little extra jokes. Um. And the ending, which I'm sure we're going to talk about it is not in the book, right. I think I knew that because um, I saw that it was not in the original screenplay. The original screenplay, the Eve and Chauncey find each other in the woods and just get in a car and leave. Is that how it

happens in book? If I remember correctly, it was just like he's you know, the there's there's people in like the smokey back room political you know, trying to trying to figure out who's going to run for president, and they're talking about him, and he just kind of walks out a door where in the movie. I'm sure we'll get to this, you know, it's the funeral and the pall bearers kind of whispering it as he kind of wanders off into the woods. Is strange, possibly christ like moment.

I don't know, it's like, you know, but that's that. I definitely want to, you know, get to that because I would love to know what how you feel at that ending. But the book is but but the book is is is great. It's read by Dustin Hoffman. Oh interesting, um, which I wondered if this was chosen because, you know,

doing my research, somebody was saying, maybe Chauncey Gardner. And I'm assuming if you're listening to this, you're you either read the book or your or you saw the movie or your board already, right, but you know, he's this sort of dimwitted guy, and somebody was saying maybe he was autistic or something. Whether that's true or not. The book was sort of a strange, a strange twist, but

highly recommended. Yeah, it's interesting because there we don't know what the diagnosis is, and to see this through a modern lens um is much different than when it was made in you would just well, the whole premise of the movie is that no one understands that he has any sort of affliction. I guess that back then they would have called him slow or something or nobody. That no one picks up on it. That's the whole premise of the movie is is that people see what they

want to see. That's right, absolutely, I mean that's the running theme. Um real quick on how Ashby he he owned the seventies, maybe like no other director owned the seventies. He went this was his run Harold and Maud and seventy one, the last detail in seventy three, Shampoo and seventy five Bound for Glory, and of any six coming home in sight and then being there in seventy nine.

I don't know if, like any other director can can claim a run like that one, two, three, four, five, six, like classic films by anyone standard inside a tenor period. And then he I don't know how much you know about him. He kind of went off the DV Yeah, Yeah, I think he kind of fell off the radar in

his own head too. Yeah. I got really bad into heroin and cocaine and was sort of looked at his unhirable for a while and tried to get back in the game late, and I think made one more one more movie that didn't do so well, but I had this great run and then that was sort of it. And there's a little parallel with Peter Sellers himself there, right. He made only one more movie before his death, and it was some lame like Foo Man Chew. It was like the Curse of Chew or something I remember, which

was you know, it was a nothing burger. Yeah, but he made, you know, one of the best films, one of my favorite film a very end of his career with how Ashby doing the same thing. Yeah, I think he was sort of problematic for his personality problems. This at this point in his career, after really cleaning up in the sort of sixties and early seventies. And it sounds like it was Peter Sellers that actually was pushing Ashby to make this movie. He read this book by

a guy named Jersey Kosinski. I'm probably butchering that name. But he read the book and spent like eight years pushing Ashby to make this movie and um yeah, and it's it's a gym. Yeah. And I think how Ashby wanted uh full control and got some deal with a group called Lori Mar Pictures, and um, I think they're the ones that ended up kind of wrecking his reputation. I'm not exactly sure why, because this was a critical hit,

it was a financial hit. Um. I mean it did really well, so it's not like they had any you know, egg on their face for doing this, So I'm not sure what the deal was. Maybe it was like interpersonal stuff. But um, the way, and you know, we don't have to go like in order of the movie. You can kind of jump around. Um. I guess we should just talk about the sort of the the way he played this role, Like the physicality and the voice was just so spot on, and he just inhabits his character so well.

I wonder, yeah, like I wonder if if he's one of those method guys that would have stayed like that, but he did. Yeah, that's it's kind of shocking, you know. Um, and watching that makes me do it makes me rethink the autism thing. I don't know, I just I guess it's on my mind. I just read this book last year called I Wish You to remember the name of the author. It's like the Curious Incident of the Dog at Night. Have you known this book? It's a play and u uh in a book. It's really it's a

real quick read. But it's written from the perspective of an autistic teenager and written and he's trying and assault the crime of like the dog across the street was murdered, and basically, you know, almost you know, for a normal person, nothing almost happens. He's like he takes a train and but it it's written in this way, thinking the way he thinks. What rewatching? I could see this, I could

see a little bit of Chauncey Gardner. Yeah, but this idea, this character that had never left, had never left the walled garden, and it was so obsessed with with television. And there was a lot of parts that I remember of him that would then show up later where you know, he would be imitating something that happened on television and at just the right moment at the right chance. I mean, this is you know, the whole idea of being there, and the little moment of chance was just it was

so well timed. Yeah, everything from the way he uh and you'll see him, you know, hone in on something on the television, and the almost at a certain point you start to get what's going on. You know that's going to come back. Like the way he shakes hands and when he when he first met the president Jack Jack Gordon, who was fucking phenomenal, and the way he shakes his hands so vigorously, both hands and Jack Warden

can't get his hands away from him. Or the way you know he sees some stagecoach driver tip his hat and then later he tips his hat, and the or right at the right moment when the woman who's in love with him comes in, Uh, he sees somebody kissing on television, right, he does it the same way. Oh, can we just stop for a moment. Like some of the uh, some of the little TV moments are so brilliant and I kind of remember them from you know,

my childhood. That was like the but you can call me Ray and you can call me j And there was the basketball Jones at you know you know who did that as Cheech and Chong Man. Oh really yeah, which I doesn't make sense, like I rewatched, it doesn't sound like them. But when you look at credits, it's it's Basketball Jones. Yeah, but that little that little you know, weird kind of cartoon. And but then and other stuff like Sesame Street and Mr. Rogers and you know, Peppermint

patty commercials and all these weird little things. And a lot of times I liked how they would kind of clue in, Like in the Basketball Jones it's saying, you know, I need someone to stand beside me, and it's paralleling this woman who's sitting right next to him. And yeah, there are a lot of slide little things like that. There was a lot of little found objects that sort of kind of mirror the situation in a subtle way. Yeah.

So he's in in Washington, d C. And at the very beginning of the movie, um, which is another parallel that will play out in his second life at the Biltmore State in North Carolina, right, which have you ever been there? I haven't, but it's pretty amazing. Yeah, it's something else you should check it out at something that's another difference in the book is the book takes place in New York City and so this is and in

the summertime. But so the movie is actually better with the winter and the stuff like uh and the you know, the political climate. I thought that was great. And then overcoade and the umbrella and the whole look, you know, sort of completely complete that look for sure. But he, you know, the old man which is what he calls him, whoever his his own this house that he's lived in as the gardener. The old man has died, and um,

he has to leave the house. And that that very early scene where the two uh, I guess real estate attorneys or whatever they are basically tell him, you know, you gotta leave. Um are you going to try and make a claim against the estate, And that sets up the whole recurring thing with the claim, like, you know, and I don't want to make a claim, but he uh, it's interesting to look at that today, like this was

the seventies. They were basically like, this guy clearly needs help and they just toss him out on his ass. Today that would there would be someone to help him. They would put him in touch with the social network, absolutely support network. I think it's some kind of support net to get him going, a case workers, a social worker or something. And it's funny to look back at the seventies and they're like, oh, this guy who was like you know, obviously has some at the very least

some pretty big learning disabilities. Uh, you're out on your ass in the middle of Washington, d C. And uh credit to I mean the music choice there when they are playing the two thousand theme, I had the discode up version. Diodado is his name, I can't remember. It's like a Brazilian. He was like a contemporary check Korea. All these guys human Diodato or something like this sort of Latin disco thousand ones pretty great, which you know is short of you know, was probably a nod you

know to uh to the movie itself. He sort of mood, you know, emerging into the world, and Uh, it was just it was it was classic. I've actually been listening to it since, so really, yeah, it's funny as hell. Man.

It was nice. Uh. And then there's one of the most and I think it's sort of was played for laughs in nineteen seventy nine, but watching it last night, it was such a heartbreaking scene when uh, he meets the sort of street toughs, and the the guy flicks a switch plate in his face and he tries to change the channel. He picks up his remote control and points it at the guy and clicks it. So sad, but so sad. It's kind of funny, but in seventy nine,

I'm sure it was like a laugh riot. I'm watching it as a forty eight year old man in two thousand, nineteen or twenty, and I just wanted to start crying because this guy has never been faced with reality and he's trying to change the channel. Alsothing that's scary. Also not in the book, that whole, the whole part. And I got a fact for you, the little trip yad all right to that kid, the kid that's like you,

you tell that chicken chip mother like that guy. His name is Otel Burbridge, and he was the bassist for a band called Aquarium Rescue n What Yeah, I have no idea for the listeners. Aquarium Rescue Unit was one of the only kind of jam band types that I got into. Bruce Hampton, Colonel Bruce Hampton. Colonel Bruce Hampton looked like your high school Jim coach. He had this big tom Selleck mustache and more like Jim shorts and

a beer belly. And then he had this freakazoid band with like some you know, weird hippie guitarist and then had this fishbone ish looking basis guy. I mean, look, you turned me on the fishbone too, by the way, how that you mentioned it? And I'm proud of that. But anyway, and there he is. And I don't know. Uh, I knew that before I looked it up on IMDb, but I went to confirm it before I told you that. But this These guys played at the Georgia Theater and

a variety of places when we were in college. Why the hell he's in being there? I have no clue and I have no idea what he's doing. Kid, maybe he was. Maybe we also turned me onto bad brains speak King of DC dude. Yeah, yeah, bad brains. These are gonna keeps h I mean this a while back, means maybe five or not so great. They're not doing back flips on the stage. Yeah, none of us are, Jinkie. Um so yeah, he he leaves the house and then

has a very fortuitous thing happens. He gets backed into by a car of the wife of a very rich and influential man. Uh, these days he would be these days he would be a tech billionaire. It's fund manager. He's one of Warren Buffett or something basically, but has you know, he's has such influence that he has the

ear of the president played by Jack Warden. The wife is played by uh Trulie McClain, and Melbourne Douglas is the his new old man and he kind of falls from one situation, falls right in, right into the same goddamn situation. Yeah, and you know, it couldn't have been more perfect that he finds it and he's even and that's one of the beautiful things is that he's not deceiving anybody. He has no idea that they don't know. Uh, you know that he doesn't. He thinks he's doing exactly.

It's like, oh, wow, this is just now you'll make my lunch. You know, that's kind of you know, Louise made my lunch, and now you'll make my lunch. And this is where at this point, this is where the sort of comedy of errors of misunderstandings and hearing what you want to hear really kick in. As he's at dinner and like this army of waiters and butlers are

serving the meals. And he starts to talk about that, you know, his house closed down and the attorneys closed it down and this you know, this character what's his name, Rand, which is a perfect for this too, you know exactly or you know Iron Rand and all of that. It

was just it's perfect. Uh, you know, he he what he hears is not the literal nous of what he's saying, but that uh, you know, and he says, I want to work in your garden and comes and all this and what this metaphors funny and he hears it as metaphors and the you know, the American entrepreneur has to you know, till the soil and you know, and plant the seeds. And then when he talks about like all I have is the room, you know, this is Chance

talking to or Chauncey. Yeah, because they misunderstand. He says Chance the gardener in the book, there's Chance and Chauncey. Uh you hear from his Chances perspective, and Chauncey, which is kind of nice, but here he's Chauncey to everyone. But you know, Chauncey says something about that all he has now is the man upstairs, and that just hits home to him, the to the to this billionaire because I have none of that. I have none of that. I'm going to the man upstairs next. Yeah, don't you

talk about that? And so it really sets this sort of snowball in motion of just everybody wants him to be there, their savior, there, their their sage. It's interesting, there's so many like it's a comment on so many things, everything from uh dumb, dumb TV culture to politics too, people not listening, truly listening to someone and filling in the blanks that they want to hear. Um. I mean, it's a satire. It's not as funny as I remember it's.

It's pretty dramatic film. It's dramatic and you know, um, you know uh rainy in if this is going off on the wrong the wrong way. But I'm not a fan of like today's cringe comedy you curb your enthusiasm and all that. I don't I don't dislike it, but it makes me uncomfortable and I don't enjoy watching it because no, no, I'm not saying I hate all of it, but I don't watch all of it because it's just

it's a very uncomfortable situation. Is well, this movie has that a little bit of that, But I relish it because I just can't believe they're I say, can't but there that they I think the differences and something like The Office, which I loved, it's an obnoxious character who's making everyone uncomfortable. And this he is so pure of heart. There's none of that. Maybe that's it. He's a good guy. He's he's honest to a fault because he knows nothing else.

All he knows is how to talk about the thing right in front of his face, or the thing he knows about, which is gardening and television. Television, so good. Um, And then you know this, this budding romance starts to bloom because Rand is a dying man. He has this younger wife who's desperate for some sort of attention and romance that she's never had, and she that's she sees that in him, and then so she doesn't see anything else.

And Shirley McLain is so great in this. Um, I read some of the behind the scenes stuff like he was Sellers was in character the whole time. She is just a world class kook and always has been. Um. So she was on set talking about her numerology and all her writer past lives or something past lives. Hal Ashby is they're just stoned out of his mind. Ashby is what they call uh. And apparently it was just like a pretty crazy scene I believe on the set of being there. But through all that you get this

very docile, sort of calming film. It has that effect on you when you're watching it even right it's it's calming. And then there'll be these moments where, oh, he's going to get found out right now somehow. I mean like the point where he goes he finally sees another black person and he goes, do you know Raphael, And you're like, oh my god, he's about to give that message, but you don't get that to the credits, right, which I want to talk about that later to a very controversial

right sort of thing. Um. By the way, the DP as well as was Caleb Deschanel, who is Zoe desion else father. Yeah all right. Um. Apparently how Ashby used to work almost exclusively, exclusively with the great Haskell Wexler, but he was not available, so they went to Caleb Deschanel, which is pretty interesting. Um. So he's in this new situation that is just like the old one. People starting to find him out a little bit because of two reasons. One,

you basically have two people investigating him. You have secret Service because of his eventual meeting with the president and and all of a sudden, this guy's getting quoted on the evening news as this economic stage. Uh. And then you have the other group investigating the Russians or you mean the attorneys, the attorneys, um, and you get the feeling. And the doctor he's sort of one of those is sort of like what he was. He's another added character.

That's good. There's some person who is sort of suspicious. He's like, this doesn't really match up, and and he's great in the movie. But what's interesting that hit me last night, after all the times I've seen this is they are all I think. I think they think they're after a con man. Uh. They don't come out and really say it, but they're like, something stinks here, like this guy's putting one over on us. But like you said earlier, that's not the case. He is a mystery

man and he and there is no documentation. There is a mystery to be solved. But he's not cunning anybody, right, Right, there was that great scene where you know, he has the FBI director and the CIA director and he's like, all right, this guy, you know he's got it. You've burned his records. Neither of them know anything, but their own pride stops them from saying we don't know anything, because they're like, well, he's a man, and so in that point, they're not seeing in him what they want

to see. It's like literally their own pride is you know, uh office skating their their own view, and they can't they can't admit that they don't know. So another series of chance where people's own fallacies and they're people's own sort of you know, problems with their own ego that they want, you know, allow this guy to move forward.

That's right. Oh, I know the other the investigator that I was thinking was the the reporter from the Financial Times or whatever, because he's the first one that calls him. And that's such a great scene the phone call he gets, oh, and he's like he starts doing yoga, basically moving the phone away from his ear, like he doesn't even fully understand how the phone works. And this guy's like are you still there? Are you there? And he like has

fully set the phone down because the television is on. Right, it's like my four year old right, and he's like, I've been on television because at that earlier scene he had been remember when he's like when he got hit by the car. He got hit by the car. He was standing there. That was a great moment because two thousand one disco version is is kind of fade out and he's standing there and there's like a moon and some something behind there to kind of ship, and he

sees himself on a video recorder. So when they asked him to be on the talk show and he's like, yes, I've been on television again. Honest, he never lies. He never He's never anything. He's and at the same time as he's doing these idiotic things when people are not looking or you know, just or just watching television and saying these empty platitudes or well they're not even platitudes to him, they're just straight forward facts about gardening. You know.

I just I wrote down some of the things that people were, you know, they what they called him. They called him smart and sensible, they called him level headed, they said, you don't play games with words, Chauncey. You're direct and straightforward. You know, you have the gift of being natural, you know. And then I feel safe with you. And then, uh, you know, you seem to be a truly peaceful man. And those are all those are true,

you know. But and that's another thing about this is that he's never lied and deceiving and you know, uh, he's not trying to stay one step ahead of them.

He's just which is in a way, I was trying to think of an equivalent to this movie where someone stumbling I think, and I haven't seen it since I was maybe ten years old, but like an early Tom Hanks movie where it's like The Man with the One Red Shoe, where it's like everybody, this is just some schmoll but everybody thinks he's some spy or something and doesn't realize it. But by chance, you know, somethings stumble

into place. But you know, aside from that, I can't think of any other think Forrest Gump tried to do some of this stuff in a way more obvious and ham fisted and fisted way. Absolutely, um, I think I think it wanted to be it being there in some way,

it's interesting. Yeah, you're not wrong. I don't even I don't know why I didn't think of that one, of course, of course, but the sort of slow, mentally challenged guy who stumbles through life makes every week and everybody loves him, and he thinks, but this is so much more real and substantial, and like the I mean, how I A should be played it. And I think he got someone else to help him write the script aside from the someone did, like a uncredited rewriter or whatever. But I

think they made all the right moves. Um. One of my favorite shots early on that I wanted to mention was before he even goes to the second Old Man's house, when he's walking up the median toward the Capitol Building with with the the umbrella in the briefcase or the suitcase or whatever, and the cars are going on both sides of him, and again it's just that that childlike sort of thing, like I don't even know if he knows,

like he'd never been in a car. He said, so, I've never been in an automobile, and he didn't know what an elevator was. And that was one of the great lines, is where the but the butler thinks he's this hilarious guy, like, how long do we stay in this room? This is the smallest room in the house,

and he's like, oh, yeah, that's the smallest room. Card well, and then and that part is kind of sad later on when he gets in and the butler just sort of cracks up and then quickly apologizes and so I'm sorry, I thought you were gonna he's one of those great singers. But he feels bad about it, and I felt bad

that he didn't that he felt bad. You know, it was one of the things because Chauncey couldn't say he just has Yeah, well that's the thing is to well and you know, I don't think we've got to this directly, but you know, we've talked about how people see what they want to see. But he's this sort of distinguished looking man with a placid face, and he's very well dressed. He has good posture, and he speaks slowly and deliberately, and the most people on the planet that means authority

figure and so everybody projects onto him. This is someone with authority, and so that man was trying to he was he was trying to connect with him. He thought he was going to do with those jokes, and then suddenly he's like, oh, I can't do this because I've overstepped the line, and you know, in chances to sit and has no idea the first if I can kind of circle back right, you know, before he even before

he even got uh Um into the house. The first time when this happens is where maybe right after the scene you were just talking about, where he walked down the meeting and he's near the White House or something and he sees a tree and he touches the tree and then he sees a police officer and says the stupidest He's like, this tree is sick. We need to

help it. And because he's if if he was if he was a homeless black man, if it was if it was me or a teenager that said that, you know, that cop would be like, funk off and get out of here. But because of the way he looks and the way he's dressed, he literally calls it in. He calls it in because this guy looks like someone that you have to listen to. It's right, he could have been a senator or whatever. It's funny you were talking

about the authority. There's that great scene later with once he only gets on TV and you see some of the reactions of the people from his past. And there is the African American woman who worked with him, as I guess she was like the housekeeper. Yeah, and she's like, this is a white man's world, to be sure, and this is nine And that was so relevant. Um, like you were talking about so many things I was picking up on, uh that it could have been in like

a contemporary film. And she flat out says it. She's like, like, it is a white man's world, Like that guy doesn't have two brain cells rubbed together. Oh no, she she said, like Rice Putting tells a jackass. Ain't nothing but Rice putting between his ears. Such a great line rise putting between his ears a jackass. I love that. But and and I don't want to keep doing this. But that is not in the book either. Louise is dead in the interesting in the in the book, so I'm so

glad that they brought her in. Yeah, that whole issue would have not would have not been addressed. And I think is one of the most important parts of the book and most of the like one of the most relevant things in the movie that continues on today. Yeah, I mean it's a comment on race, uh and uh, status and privilege. Oh, just so relevant to today, especially with what's going on in the White House right now.

Uh someone who. I mean, the parallels are there with the television and yeah, I um, you know when I first when I rewatched this and then I started kind of reading up and there was all these pieces on this is exactly. It's being there all over again, and at first I kind of pushed back, not that I didn't see it, but I thought, well, there's some significant differences. First, the similarities we you know forty five are President now

is obsessed with television. This guy's obsessed with television. Forty five is uh he says things and tweets things, and then people interpret them in different ways and see read what they want to read and hear what they want to hear. Those are both there. But of course our president is sort of really kind of a hateful and sort of he is and I he's a con man, whereas uh, you know, Chauncey Chance is pure. He's he's an he's an innocent. He doesn't even realize he's an innocent.

He doesn't you know, he's almost he's almost not sentient in a way. I mean he's almost like a single cell amiba that just goes from television to to lunch.

Louise cooks me lunch. You know. Yeah. It's interesting in the in the framework of looking at a film character because a lot of times you either identify or there's something about the character that like he plays it so just flat that it's interesting that you root for him, Um, like you want him to be okay, but why you want him you know, you're like you worry that he's about to be found out, when it really he really should be found out because he could really do damage

to the world if somebody misinterprets something he said, and he would probably be taking care in some way, he

would probably be put somewhere. But instead he's falling into like he's like a breath away from the White House by the end of this movie exactly, he's you know, paddling around with a Russian diplomat and that's another great Uh, that's another great you know, um, misunderstanding or reading what you want to read the guys like you know, I think you you must or he says, we're not too far apart you and I, and he goes, yes, our chairs are next to each other, you know, and then

he got you know, the Russian guy spins into this narrative and then he's like, I think you like Kree loss fables and I looked up Cree los ables. It was basically a Russian guy who did a lot of sort of you know, uh a fable. So he started with Esop and then kind of moved into more Slavic culture stuff. But then he just recites some of one I guess in Russian and you know, in Chance giggles because he's never he talked funny. It's basically probably was

going on in his mind. And because he laughed, and because it was a joke, he's like I knew it, knew you spoke. And then I was like, oh my god, how far can this go? And apparently it could almost go to the presidency. Well it's interesting because Ruby is four and a half, and um, you remember this from when your kids were young pre sarcasm, before they understand what that means everything is. So it's like Chauncey, everything's face value, everything is taken is what the worlds are

and literal that is coming out of your mouth. And I will be sarcastic about stuff like, oh, that's that's fantastic, that's great, and she's like, why did you say fantastic? How could you say that like a sarcasm? Ruby will understand it one day. But he plays it like that, except he doesn't even have the personality of a four year old, you know, he plays it just so flat. Um, it was pretty risky, I think because it's not a

lot to draw you in. Uh. It very much leaves you on the sidelines as a viewer, I think because you can't relate to the guy. You're rooting for him, but not because you know, Forrest Gump, they took it too far in the other direction. They made you know, well, he had a personality where where a chance is a blank canvas and everybody just paints on him. They just

paint what they want on him. And he's like you whatever, the empty empty vessel or whatever Sellers himself said, He's just this empty canvas that people project what they want to see on him. Where you know, guys like the President or Forrest Gump, they have, you know, for better or worse, they have their own opinions and personality, those kind of quirks that come through where this guy is uh, you know, not even I was gonna say a shape shifter. But he's not trying to shape shift. He's just this

thing that you know, shows you what you want to see. Yep. Everyone is projecting onto him what they want to hear. And it can get a little frustrating at times too, but not because like someone listened to him, he really has something to say, because he doesn't. Um. They are like the man. I think he's fresh spect he's so enlightening, you're just like okay, or he's so funny he stows straightforward. Uh.

Shirley McClain. That that the love making scene, you know, one of the one of the great lines is I like to watch to watch and she of course takes that as as I wanted. He wants me to masturbate in front of him. Right. One of the things that they cut out of the movie and probably understandable for the time nine seventy nine was remember the gay character comes up and says, if you know, would you have

you ever had sex with a man. Somehow it gets to I liked I like to watch, and he goes hold on I'll go get Warreden, you know, which was hilarious. Um in the book, he actually goes up with somebody too really and the guy takes his clothes off and starts masturbating and he gets his shoe on him or whatever. But in in chance his mind he thinks the guy sick because he's twitching and moaning and right, and so he comes back downstairs where you basicals, Oh I was

with YadA YadA, he was sick. Oh, you're so considerate taking care of him. Another case where just these and these and and you think when he's happening, how how is this going to happen? Yeah, but it comes through stumbles through it something. Yeah, I think it's interesting. The Mr Magoo, that's who he reminds me of. Mr McGoo.

It just came to me. But like Mr McGoo was just walking through life and he would walk off the side of the building and it would just happen to be when the elevator cage got there, or or he would land on a bank robber and everybody would think, oh, you saved the day. But you know he's sort of totally Yeah, I see more comparison to that than Forrest

gump me. Yeah, I thought it was interesting how he handled death because he faces it twice with the both of the old men in his life, and he immediately just kind of turns to the TV uh in both cases or leaves like that's his his blanket essentially. Um, he doesn't understand what's going on. But again with like there's never any emotion at all. Um. And I think people read that as like a stoicism, right. You know,

there there's a single tear in that last scene. There is, there is and that and which was that much more powerful because there's nothing before that. It was like he really finally gave you something. He really he really cared for that guy, where the guy he lived with his entire life. He was ready to watch Captain Kangaroo, you know,

as soon as he died. But but not to diminish what you're saying, but there's so little emotion and he and then he may have had that tear and gone right back to he would have tuned out into anything that was on television. Yeah, that's really important though, Like they did, they gave you that one little nugget, that one tiny little tear, which was super impactful. Uh. And you know as the it feels like a sort of a seventies mystery in some ways, like the net is

closing on him as the movie goes on. The whole sort of second hour of the movie has these various storylines where everybody's investigating him. They're getting closer and closer, and like there's nothing on this guy's you know, they're taking his fingerprints off of a glass. Yeah, it's like for real, they know that his suits were made in nineteen that's right, you know, That's that's all they know about him, you know, no fingerprints, no hospital records, yea.

And so they's made into this man of mystery and he's just do just kind of walking around. I could see them remaking this movie. I hope they don't. I hope they don't. This is one of those certain remakes would be good, and it would depend on who it is. I mean, I would see it if it came out, But I hadn't even thought about that. That should be something I should have prepared for this for this podcast. And if it was remade, who who? Who could pull it off? Man? Um? I don't know, Like I see

Paul Rudd doing it. I mean, even though he's a the animated guy. Yeah, see, I can see him doing the flat I can see him pulling that off. Or if they did, if they wanted to, like I'm sure like a Jim Carrey or Will Ferrell would die to do something like this, to really kind of take a turn. Yea, either of them, Either of them could pull this off. But there's so much here that is so relevant because these days it would be internet research and there would

be parallels. But you know, you played the president in a different way because Jack Warden isn't a bad guy in this movie necessarily as the president. Um, he gets the endorsement, which is interesting. How would this movie play out if it was in in present day with with social media and then in the two hour news cycle, it would be all it would be more like it wouldn't be nearly as quiet and slow Bernie. It would be a bigger deal. Um, the President would be like

some big buffoon. I think you'd just be more over the top and kind of every way. Can you imagine Chaunsey Gardner's Instagram feed? I mean would totally work. He would just be staring off in his sunset and it would be like, flowers are strong. It's like Jack Handy, Jack Nice, Nice Nice. I think you turned me onto Jack Handy too. I'm just gonna say you turned me onto everything, Jinkie. I'm just glad I turned you on, sweetheart. So, uh,

I guess you know we can get into the ending. Yeah, one of the classic most most classic, un uh not unambiguous, ambiguous endings in movie history. I think the old man dies, like you mentioned before, the Paul Bearers. You hear the whispers, the way they intercut that last scene, it's just so great. The editing is just so wonderful. Did you notice the Illuminati sign on the grave? Yeah? Wow, that was that.

I didn't notice that the last time I saw Yeah, the Illuminati, And I think it even says life is a state of mind on the grave, which is the last line of the movie. Right, So the President is eulogizing Rand and true to form or true to his nature. Chauncey or Chance has wandered away into the woods to look at flowers and trees and to be himself. And he and if you've never, like, if you haven't seen the movie and you want to, and you've gotten this far,

stop listening, because I don't want to ruin it. It is one of the great great endings in movie history. All right, if you're still here, uh in the book, like we said in the original script, it doesn't in this way. But he goes to the edge of the pond and walks starts walking across it on water, And if you wondered if he was really walking on water, he kind of pauses and then sticks his umbrella down into it and then gets up and which apparently was

an improv moment, was it. Yeah, Peter Seller stopped and put the umbrella down. But you know, they built a little pier a few inches below the waterline. And one of the great filmmaking decisions of all time, I think, is to change that ending, because it really makes It's one of those endings that makes you rethink everything you've seen. And two bottles of wine later after the movie, you're discussing it with people what you think it means? So

let's hear it. What do you think it means? I wanted to ask you first, but uh, well, I've kind of changed over time. I think when I first watched it, I thought it was this whole comment on on religion in general too. I thought, uh, oh, this is Jesus. This he is, He's not, he is not Jesus. But

it's basically trying to say Jesus. Maybe Jesus was dimwitted, or maybe Jesus was just a normal guy and people saw in him what they wanted to see, and then, you know, fast forward a hundred years of interpretation and interpretation and misinterpretation, and then he's all of a sudden, maybe this guy really was just a carpenter who told a couple of stories about sheep and goats and do

you know what I mean? And uh, and and then it was sort attorney So I thought it was this total commentary on that now, um, you know, in a part of it, though, I thought that was kind of a a little bit. Yeah, I kind of thought that was a bit of a cheap joke at the end because there was no but it was sort of a one two punch. And maybe that's where I was too, and I was cheap joke all of this, Jesus is a dumbass, do I mean? And I was like, and uh, but maybe at that time in my life that that's

what I I projected onto that. Yeah, this is a very sharp criticism of organized religion. And I was the same way dude, and we were both church boys. So yeah, and maybe that's that's just where I was at that point, and I, oh, it's all the sham and blah blah blah. Now I've I've kind of looked back at it as sort of a life as a state of mind, which is the last line in it, and it's sort of this idea of, uh, you know, he's he's been able

to do everything. It's almost like he's some supernatural creature that can do whatever he wants and people are sort of charmed by it. And so the water is just as is under his sway as much as anyone else. Is that that is that the accurate? Well, uh, you know, there's no right answer for sure, because is there any not at all. I looked and there's no there is no right answer. I think he very much wanted it

to be open to interpretation. Um. I saw it as a religious allegory as well when I was younger, but now it's a little bit more like he doesn't know he can't walk on water right, right, right, And that's true to his character to make that leap of faith, not religious, but um, to step out onto it Uh, but it's really happening. So, I mean that's the cool thing about movies like this. I think it's or is it really happening, like you don't have to if you

start nitpicking? Or is this the final metaphor? Right right? This is this the final metaphor that that we are projecting onto you everybody, you know, everybody thinks he's speaking in metaphors. Really funny the entire time, totally what it is. You know, it's like the characters spend the whole movie doing that, and at the very end the audience is doing that. Yeah. Wow, I think we're figuring it out.

It's such a great ending though, and it's really it's one of those that you know, when they do these big Oscar Award, uh super cuts of all these great moments in cinema history. Inevitably there's a shot of Johncey Gardner walking as you always see it. It's like they're singing in the rain. There's uh, there's rain man, there's this, there's Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn, Like this is one of those cinematic moments. Uh, and it almost wasn't there. But do you think this movie is

on everybody's radar. You you're more attuned to those things now, But I always thought of this is sort of this small little film that I knew, But I don't know if it's of those I think as a whole. Like when I list off last detail in Harold and Maud like film, people know what those movies are. But when you say great filmmakers of the seventies, people probably start talking about Scorsese and and uh, well Lucas has to

be debated. But um, I don't think how Ashby is on the tops of everyone's list, and he should be because that run of films was incredible. It was, and he had a way about him and his movies Harold and Maud, you know they were all they weren't very just sort of straightforward Hollywood films. He always had a unique angle on everything. I think it was really a great matching of material, actor, director all coming together for It's like it's really a combination special sauce. Right, Yeah,

Walking across that water just the best. I could watch the ending a hundred times and I'm trying. I think Mad Magazine ruined it for me. I didn't believe saw the magazine version of that first. But I mean I didn't see this movie until much later. It might have been college. That's probably where I saw it first. Yeah,

I mean I didn't see it as a kid. And I talk a lot on the show those early college years when because of people like you and then getting the job at Vision Video and really going down that road that early nineties independent cinema boom, from Jarmish to Spike Lee. It was just like it was such a great time there was to be one years old and like really exploring that. The whole room full of movies to watch. Yeah, whole room full of movies. I mean, I mean we would sit around and record, uh, what's

his name? Who was the preacher they ended up doing the Reverend Bob Tilton. Reverend Bob Tilton. Put your hand on the screen. Put your hand on the screen. You were YouTube man, Like later on on YouTube people would

do him like farting and stuff. Whereas you guys would just record that ship off late night TV and we would sit around and watch it, and I had tons of stuff I remember us watching that, uh that you know, haralda were Vera getting hit with a chair and the nose like in slow Mo play by play every time. I can't. You guys were YouTube every time I came over, you had something on a video cassette that you were recorded that we would all sit around and watch. And last,

who was the tap dancing Bandit? Do you remember that? Jessico? Yes, Jesso, Yeah, yeah, that era of stuff, right man. I totally forgot about that. He was great. And what was his name? Ye oh, I can't remember exactly what it was. It was Jessico, but he was the whatever tap dancing bandit or something like that. And then um, we would listen to uh Dr Dre's The Chronic and play street Fighter and Mortal Kombat. That was That was Clay and Jason Hughes. I was

not a big fan of Dre, but we did. Really no, it was never a big I mean, I liked a lot of hip hop. Im was born in Public Enemy back then. But Luna and Camper, Camper van Bato and there was tons of stuff we all love to know. It's the best. I still love Luna. I just saw them recently and I'm trying to get Chuck d on

the show and I finally got an insider connection. Who's someone who knows him personally and they talked to him and he was like, he literally has like a hundred interviews lined up, and he said, but you know, I'm into it, but it's not gonna anytime soon. If if that ever happens, I'll let you know so you can like accidentally be in Atlanta. Yeah, yeah, I would love that. I would love that. Yeah, he's he's a guy that's like high on my list for you know, dream guests.

I would love to sit down with him. I mean, it's no Christopher Walking talking about foot loose, right, dude. I couldn't even listen to that. Really well, I was so uncomfortable for you. Well you knew it was a gag, right, No, that wasn't real. That was a guy that was Kevin Pollock. So you thought that, well no, I just I just saw it. It was in aprol Fool's episode. Oh okay,

because I was like, what the hell? And so then you're like, so, I'm so nervous about this is so I don't know if your publicists do that, and then awkward, and then he started and it was too awkward. I was like I was, I was so nervous for you. I turned it off. I didn't even see the date when it came out. That's funny. It was an April fool thing. Kevin Pollock, the actors, is a master impressionist

and we cook that one up classic class. It's funny because some people are fooled and some people are like, that was the worst walking I've ever heard. I'm like, what are you talking about? It was great? Oh dude, this is so much fun. You got any final thoughts on being there? No? No, I think I think we I think we cracked it. Yeah. I think it's the final metaphor. We are the painters of the canvas man. Nice. Uh, you should come on again next time you come through town.

I'd like to make this a regular thing. Yeah, right on. That fun thanks brother, Right, all right? Perfect? That was great? Yeah, very cool. I had the questions answered to. You have some questions? Oh hold on? Yeah? Yeah, oh wait, wait before we go, we still recording. Uh, we gotta do the five questions. I haven't done this with a real guest in so long. We've been in so many like round tables people in the office that it fell off my radar. So what was let me see if I remember,

and what was the first movie you saw in the theater. Um, it was funny. I had, you know, since I'm in the States. I went and asked my mom about it, and she says that the first movie I saw was Herbie the love Bug Fox at the Fox, like you know, probably in a stroller or something when it came out when the Fox still showed movies. But I mean, this

is just how many brain cells are gone. Only the first movie I remember seeing in a theater, um kind of there it mixes with your second question about our movie. I remember sneaking into d C cab Oh. Yeah, but one like I think Bill Maher and Mr T or somebody, isn't it like some ridiculous movies? The first time I saw boobs on a screen and I remember that vividly. So at TC. Yeah. Um, so that's the first movie that I remember that I still remember on the screen.

I'm sure I saw some you know, I probably saw Bambi or something like that that I don't remember. But sneaking in so first R rated movie DC CAP. I think before that, the first R rated movie I saw was Halloween in Gatlinburg in a hotel room. Cable my cousin, older cousin like foolishly said, Hey, we're gonna go watch Halloween in our hotel room. Do you want to watch it? I don't know what we were in Gatlinburg for, but and I went sure. I didn't even know what it was.

I thought it was like a Charlie Brown special. And I saw Halloween at whatever age it came out and was on cable in a hotel room, and I was afraid of the dark for years after that. Halloween really scared the ship out of me and so so. But I I vividly, vividly remember that. And then how were you? I should have looked up when, you know, like I should have done sort of a backwards but I had to be ten, you know, maybe I would way too young to see that. For sure. I'd have to look

at when it came out. I mean what Jamie Lee Curtis was like Siego, so so I must have been much younger than horror movies. Not really, My girl is into it right now, and that was from Stranger Things she went from because she's the same age as like a protagonists. So I started looking up horror movies and of course, you know, preparing for this episode, I went and listen to Evil Dead because Evil Dead Too is one of my favorite movies of all time. In Army

of Darkness. I used to watch that every Halloween until Keiko just couldn't take it anymore. Like nope, because her birthday is Halloween, and she's like, I do not want to spend my birthday watching blood gush. Can we do something else? She Actually, she didn't say that, but it was I need to watch I'm I think my girl is uh is old enough to watch it now. Now you know, a year ago I tried to show her Kung Fu Hustle and it was too violent for her. This is just this. You'll be looking for order this

with Ruby when she gets within a year. She wants to watch it with me, do you know what I mean? Scary? Which I'm too scared. So I maybe watching some horror movies with her if she goes in that direction. But when I've tried to suggest something, she's like, Dad, you don't get it. I want to watch it because it has people my age. You know, I wanted to watch Stranger Things because there's people my age. I don't want to go see people stabbing each other unless there's a

thirteen year old on screen. It's like okay, alright, so and she sounds great. Yeah, she's cool. Uh what is number three? UM? I think it was Have you ever walked out or would you walk out of a movie? All right? You? Um? In general, I don't go to the theater as much and I walk out of a movie with you? Did? Do you remember close close? What was it we walked out of something and went into True Romance again? Right? Demolition Man? Demolition Man's that's the

last movie I can remember walking out of. I probably have walked out. I didn't know if you were with me. I remember very it was you and Chappie and maybe maybe Clay I I can't remember, but I remember Brett being there for sure, because I think he was the first one that said. He was like, let's let's get out of here, and we went and saw True Romance again. Yeah yeah, yeah, but I mean that was that was a great decision. So listen. I have walked out of

movies before, but I can't think of any. I think maybe I've walked out of one that was too scary for the kids when they were like young. Can't but I can't even remember what it was because he were It's weird. In like places like Malaysia and Thailand, you will go to see Frozen and they will have a trailer for a slasher film before it. They don't match it up, and they don't match it up, and so the kids would be like, we have to leave now, and it's like, no, Frozen is not gonna be like this. Yeah.

I still remember in Chang Mai or something. But uh, there's some movie that I that I just misjudged how they were and I've walked out, but I can't even remember what it is now. I remember seeing Pulp Fiction on opening day with you guys too, and that was such a big deal becau as the Reservoir Dogs thing like that was. That was when Quentin Tarantino was like an unknown or at least unknown to us. I'm sure he was off a lot of people, but like because

of Dogs, we were all like primed for. They have to go for this like noon showing Friday of Reserve Politician. I think we went to go see the opening the opening night of was it brom Stoker's Dracula together, because well I was just a big Gary right back then. I thought could do no wrong. So now learned that he can do well, he's usually doing wrong to fund some movie he wants to make himself like that. Uh. Number four, I think is when I usually tailored to

the guest. Right, boy, what should I go with here? Then? Jinkie? Um, all right, how about this? You're an artist? Uh? What movie about an artist is like your favorite? That's a good question. I've got a few that come to my mind already, but I don't know if I like Boski Yat the first one that came to mind that was good. There was one about Jasper John's that Ed Harris was in. I didn't like. I don't know he was. Oh no, I'm Jackson Pollock. Thank you, thank you, I said Jasper John. Um.

Trying to think of some others. There's one with Willem Dafoe doing Van Govan that I haven't seen yet. I thought I really liked Salma hi x movie on on Free to Carlo. But also because now I know the whole back story. I don't know if you read that whole piece about her experience with Harvey Kai and how he bullied her. What did I say, poor guy? Um? So anyway, Weinstein was, you know, such a creep. And then but for her. To have been able to pull that off with all of that makes me love that

movie even more. Yeah, for sure, But what are some others I'm just maybe I'm just drawing a black baskot. It's certainly a great one. Um. Which is the one that uh? Or maybe I'm thinking because he is an artist, Julian Schnabl Schnabel, but he didn't make a movie about an artist, but his films are great. Yeah, I liked him. I like the stuff that Berk's husband did too. He's a he's an installation artist, really famous guy that I

can't remember his name. It's interesting. Andy Warhol has been in a bunch of someone playing Andy Warhol has been in a bunch of films From the Doors too. You know, He's popped up in a lot of movies as a character, but no one's ever really nailed a good shot. Andy Warhol was good. But that was that where Bowie played him, I can't remember. But that was more about the girl who shot him than him. But um, yeah, a good Warhol biopic would be interesting. A good Warhol biopic would

be good. Um. Maybe a question who would I want to see? Uh? Well, a Dolly film would be great a great Dolly film about Dolly, not you know, not Dolly, I mean Dolly directing. I don't if you ever saw that. That may have been some sort of clay in Jason YouTube thing. Did you ever see Dolly's films, like the ones he did with Disney or the ones he did

on his own, I don't think so. Dolly has this one bit where this I don't know is this strange little midget comes up and hands him a piece of foil and there's like a bust of some Greek god sitting on a piano next to him, and as he's looking at the screen, he's literally looking at you eye to eye, and he's fiddling with this piece of foil in his hand and he's talking and then he just shows it to you and he's made like a freeze, like, uh, you know, he's made the face of the bust as

he's talking to you. It's insane. It's insane. So I would love to see that. We actually went to his mausoleum. It's a little bit north of Barcelona, and it's like it's like it's a museum in itself. It's incredible. So yeah, I would definitely like to see a movie about uh, Dolly's life. I remember you telling me, I gotta got so many specific memories about you from college when you told me about when Dolly was on the Tonight Show and he put a duck on his head and said,

Dolly is not crazy. That's right. Like I remember you telling me that story one after it's not crazy, or that's right, that's right. So Dolly would be great. You know, I'd like to see a moneyball type movie about Coons, because Coon's is a controversial guy in how he produces his art and how he gets money. Same with Hurst, Damien Hurst, love him or hate him? Uh, he has he has played the art world and ways of course Banksy,

I mean, yeah, there you go. You want to talk about art, art movies about artists, I consider Banksy and artist and Exit to the Gift Shop. That was absolutely brilliant. Yeah, that was great and it was funny. Actually the way we watched that was we bootlegged it. And this this

he would have appreciate. Dutch friend of mine basically scout scouted out um a roof in a Monte Sando in this area of Tokyo where we used to hang out, and so it got a projection screen and had a screening of it on the roof on like a projection screen, so we watched it. It was very it felt it felt that way. We all felt like we were rebelling in one way or another, but we had to be quiet because it was like a residential building and nobody knew we were up there. But it was fun. Are

you still doing stuff? You still painting or dude? I wish I was. No. I mean, you know, I still do some photography and try to nurture that in my kids too. Um, I haven't done I haven't done any real creative things for myself in a while, and I need to remedy that. I still had that crazy chalk that you did for me. I did one for you, Yes, dude, you gave me one when we when we moved away. Wow, it's like a crazy sort of fluorescent creature eating his

own hand. He's doing something. I've got it in my closet, have kept it all these years. Next time you pull it out, snap a shot of it and send it to me, just I'd be curious to see what it is. Yeah, So it's awesome. Um, and then what's your deal in the movie theater? What do you sit, what's your routine? Top depends on what country? Yeah, well yeah, I actually I put different things. As far as where I sit, I usually try to sit near the back on the aisle. Uh.

And it depends on which way the bathroom is. But like you know, top top left center, do you know what I mean? Where I like to be your top right center. Um. As far as what I you know, eat in there, it all depends on the theater. In Japan you can bring in stuff you can just so. I mean, I'll carry in sushi rolls and cans of beer. Um. In Malaysia you have to buy stuff there, and they don't have butter popcorn. They have like Earl Gray tea flavored popcorn. Get that or else. Sneak stuff in um

then uh, Spain usually just popcorn, butter popcorn. I used as a kid it was milk dots. But it was all milk dots. But then now it's popcorn. In Mexico, Uh, Mexico's theater, it's it's takis and beer. I was bring talkies and beer, but then uh, in Japan it would be beer in sembey that kind of stuff I just gave you that. I just brought a few little snacks for chap from from Japan, and I would bring a couple of those bags. And I've only seen one movie

in a different country. Actually that's not true. I saw um, the most recent Spike Lee movie in Australia. Um. But I saw pulp fiction. Brett and I saw pulp fiction, and I guess it was where was that? We were in Vienna? All right? Okay, so we went and saw pulp fiction in Vienna. Awesome because we just wanted a foreign film experience, right, which wasn't a foreign film at all of course for us. But it was interesting. Yeah, yeah, I mean theaters they looked the same all over, you know.

I mean the theaters in in Thailand or in Spain. You know, we're pretty much the same. The theater in Mexico. But the rules by which people, uh you know, experience that I think. I listened to the I forgot her name, but your Princess Bride episode and she was talking about how she was she was a susher and I am a I am a shusher too. I actually just did it. I did it when we went to go see Knives out the Night. My kids get embarrassed. But the woman in front of us was on her phone. I mean

she wasn't talking. No, she wasn't talking, so this isn't shushing. But she was literally just like with her phone on all bright and I was just leaned over. It's like, excuse me, could you turn that off? You know, just for an hour and a half. And my kids like, oh god, what she did? What the lady do? She turned it off? Okay, you know, but in in in Mexico, it seems like every other person was doing that and I just would give up. I would get the people

to turn it off near me. But in Taiwan ten, you know, ten fifteen years ago, people would answer the phone and well, I'm just in the movie, what are you doing? So? But I think those rules are changing but interesting. But yeah, but etiquette, movie etiquette. You know that you still get the same uh you get. You still get the same announcements, please turn off your please don't talk, but you know some people take those and suggestions.

That's really interesting. Yeah, well, when you come back, we'll have to talk more about that, because that's fascinating to me. Sure would be great. It's like people talk, people love movies all over the world, and I think in America you get a very America centric mind set um. But it's like people love movies everywhere they do. And I'll leave you with this one fact that you know, if you find this stuff interesting, you can't find this interesting.

When we were when we were living in Malaysia, we lived in Penang, this all island close to the thigh border and super fancy theaters. You know that we're freezing cold, like you know, I literally I walked into flip flops and I brought a fleece because it was so cold.

But uh, when movies came there, And this is advice when people ask me about going to Malaysia if they want to go to a movie, which we recommend, it's a nice experience, but you need to see the movie right away because in Malaysia they have the latest Hollywoo

with blockbusters in English. But then they also have movies in Bajasa, they have movies in Tamil, they have movies in uh Fukian, Chinese, in you know, Cantonese and Mandarin, and so the turnover is so fast because language version for like a week a week, unless it's like you know, Star Wars or something like that, but if it's just uh, if it's just the middle of the road blockbuster, you know, a knives Out would stay for a week, maybe four days. So it's like as soon as it comes, you gotta

get we gotta go, we gotta go see it. That's so cool, awesome, all right, Well, thanks dude, Hey, my pleasure, and we'll definitely get you back in here again. I'd love that, all right, all right, everyone, I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. I hope we did not talk too much about the old days to the detriment of the show, but we were catching up a little bit it and I hope you've got a nice little peek into that. Jason, it was so good to have him in here. I love him like a brother,

and it was so good to reconnect. And we are going to keep in better touch from now on. We made that pledge to each other. A lot of great thoughts on being there. Just as I knew uh he would, I knew he'd be a great guest because Jason has a great taste and he is a smart dude. So thanks Jason for coming in here. Thanks to you all for listening, um, and we will see you next time.

Body Crush has produced, edited, and engineered by Ramsey unt here in our home studio at Pont City Market, Atlanta, Georgia. For I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.