Holly and Anney on The Empire Strikes Back

Then with them we'll move on. I mean, I'm counting on both of you to sort of fill me with knowledge because obviously this is um, well not obviously. This is my favorite movie of the whole franchise, as it is a lot of people. Uh. And it came out when I was nine years old, after having seen Star Wars in the theater when I was six, um three or four or five times, I don't remember how many

times I went. And I loved it obviously, but the difference between six years old and nine years old walking into a theater with that anticipation is a really big thing. And um it just oh, there's something I can't even articulate what it was like being a kid and seeing this goddamn movie. Yeah, I've become such a because I don't remember a time never having seen Star Wars. I've become like a collector of people's experiences because I can't I can never have that like shock factor of I've

always known the big fist at the end. So I'll ask you if i'll take notes, like what was it like? Did you see it coming? What did you think? None of us saw that coming. None of us had a clue. It literally it was a gasper and I, Um, I have such funny memories from the first time I saw it. I went with it's a It was a weird time

in my life. My family was about to move from where we had lived for quite some time to a new place when my dad was military, so we moved periodically, and like it was one of the last things I did with my best friend's family. Um, so I have

like weird stuff tied to that. Like there's a great memory that I will never forget where I was sitting next to her mom, who was the sweetest woman, and during the snow speeder chase, she just leaned over to me and said I think I'm gonna barf, Like, just the motion of that on the big screen was so unlike what anybody had seen. We forget that every moment of these films was really quite groundbreaking, and so I always think of it as when Sandy thought she might

throw up during the movie. Yet, you know what hit me? Last night and this morning. I had to split it up because I had to do a very late night West Coast thing for book promotion, which was fun, but I ended up it was like twelve fifteen last night, and I was like, I gotta finish this in the morning. But it um, there were so many firsts in this movie. Uh, and I've noted them and we'll kind of get to

him here and there. But I was just sort of struck by how many first there were in the franchise, Like little things like it was the first time, you know, when when Vader floated down those stairs during the battle, It's like it was the first time we saw him move like that, And I remember being a kid being like, oh, shoot, he can do that. This just got ten times scary. A lot of little things like that throughout the whole movie.

Though that ended up you sort of take for granted now, but they were done for the first time in this movie well, and a lot of things that changed movie making that we're done for the first time. What right? Like? Um So Phil Tippett of course very well known now in effects and animation, but this was like the first time he invented go motion, which is stop motion. Normally, you pose your your character, your armature, you take the picture,

you move it, you take the picture. He had the idea when they were animating the ad Ats, which some people like to say A T A T. I like ad At. Both are fine people, people people get I didn't know this was a controversial every it's Star Wars. Everybody wants to fight about everything, but I'm a big fan of both are great. Um. But he had the idea of what if we take the frame while we're actually moving the aperture so it looks like it has

motion blur. That completely changed stop motion animation like forever in that one moment um. He later, of course continued to innovate in that space with Jurassic but um where he was like the person that was like, okay, if we're going digital, we had to figure out how to use these skills and movies over here, but like I mean, that's one of those things that now go motion gets used it all the time. Standard, it's a standard approach

and it was innovated on this film. Annie, what was your entry point as a younger Star Wars fan, as in someone who you know wasn't nine years old when it came out in nineteen eighty anniversary. I'm glad we got this in. I had that shart too. I'm wearing it magic. I'm just the best. Yeah, I Like I said, I don't remember a time not seeing them. Um. And it was one of the few movies because we only had one TV and one vc IR, so Star Wars was one of the few series that there was no

fighting between my siblings and my parents. Like, we all liked it. The last thirty minutes of every VHS ended up getting ruined. Um. I had a huge crush on Luke Skywalker Mark Hamill. It was my longest running, strongest crush, uh and particularly Luke Skywalker and Empire Strikes Back. What's my favorite? Even though at the time Return of the Jedi was my favorite movie, which I think is interesting because I didn't have all the expectations that people had

for Return of the Jedi. So I think that's why it's still my second favorite, like because I was a kid when I saw it, and I didn't have all this like what's gonna happen. I'm just always known, um we saw it in theaters when it was rereleased. It's just got all this like nostalgia for me. And during the pandemic when I'm so stressed, it's become like I'm

on a Star Wars bender, like such a Star Wars Bending. Yeah, comparatively, And you know, keeping with my tradition, I watched Empire Strikes Back with my mom before this, and she was the sweetest and she listened to all my very like walky Star Wars opinions. And then when I told her about my like very silly quest to get Mark Hamill to tweet at me, She's offered joined Twitter and get him to do it. I was like, well, that is the sweetest thing you've ever said to me, But please don't.

I don't want to actually talked to my daughter. She's so nice. No, I'm too shy. I'm too shy to do anything. But it's not gonna happen. But you know, we've been mentioned and tweets together, so I might said that, right, he was handsome in this. I was when I was watching it finishing up this morning. There were a couple of shots, and I don't know, I never really thought of him as that handsome because he's next to Harrison Ford and uh, but today I was like, you know,

Mark Hamill's he looks pretty hot in this. He has the most beautiful eyes. Oh my gosh, yes, right, I'm not even Luke was never my thing. I was definitely a Han girl, but like, I was not ignorant of the fact that he was, you know, had incredibly beautiful eyes and he does have that key little chin. And I totally got my friends who were like Luke. I

was like, yeah, I get it. I love the conspiracy theory because you know, there was that like car accident and people I was reading articles celebrating the four yeth anniversary and some people were like about Mark Hamdill's car accident. He died in it, and he's not even the same person. I'm like, he looks the same to me, he just looks older. Yeah, it's wild, that's crazy. Carrie Fish is so beautiful in this too, and I was maybe I

was too young at six years old. But I wasn't one of these kids who had a big crush on Princess Leia. Um. But again, watching it last night, and this is the first time I've seen it, and probably I mean prepared to be offended, but probably six or seven years Um, but I was just I was like, man, carry Fisher was just beautiful in this movie. Yeah. Yeah, particularly this is to me like all of Leiah's best looks, right,

but those are her best costumes. Yeah, that hair, that best been gown is what made me fall in love with clothes. That's one of the two garments that I can literally pinpoint and go, this is why I love clothes. Um. I did not wear my best been lay Ac costume for this recording, but I do have several versions of it ready to go at any time. I have one that I made. I have one that I made just for running in because I ran the Princess Half Marathon wearing it one year. Um. But yeah, yeah, oh, she

looks so spectacularly beautiful in this film. Yeah. And they're the chemistry with her and h Harrison Ford and you know, especially in that beginning, um Hallway exchange is just so white hot and cute and um, it's just just palpable. I mean, it's uh, it just jumps off the screen

as as these two are. And especially now that you know later on when we see what happens with them, it's really fun to go back and see those early days of of the scoundrel and the in her worship, you know, which is funny because apparently they were not

getting along on set. Yeah, um yeah. And I don't know if you've read Princess Diarists where she talks about how during Star Wars they did have an affair according to her in any case, um, and that like that was apparently over and things were a little contentious at this point, and so it's kind of funny that what came of that, what blossomed out of it, was this

fantastic on screen energy, um, which is pretty interesting. I've always said that this is the most romantic movie to me in the entire world, and is about as much romance as I can handle in a movie. Just no shade to the rom coms they're just I can't whereas this is like, yes, a little bit of fighting and a little which is not how I am with my husband at all, But for film. This is it you bring the romance at home? Sure, um, I do want to ask related to this, have either of you read

from a certain point of view? There are now two volumes of it, uh that so Chuck to catch you up on what it is. They are these anthology books

that um have come out. There's one for a New Hope and now the one for Empire just came out recently, where they get a ton of different writers and they each write a short story about some element of the movie, and then they piece it all together and you kind of get a different view of what was going on in that in that film from different characters, like even in in the Empire one, you will think very differently

about the Wampa afterwards. But what's really fun to me, and why I mentioned it now, is because several different writers chose to create this thing, and I don't know how much they conferred with each other on this particular point that, like everyone at Echo based new Han and Leah were into each other and they were so sick of watching him trying to impress her by kind of

being a jerk. But also and it just makes it even funnier for me now, like workplace complaints right where they're just like there was a betting pool going on among the coms team about when he would finally just tell her he liked her, and like it's it's such a fun read for anybody that's into Star Wars. I think did one of the mcaroy's right on one of those. Yeah, yeah, there are five story and a new hope. I think. Okay, that sounds I think so, but don't quote me on

that because I'm I can't make new memories. By the way, we should also say, uh acknowledged David Prowse, who passed away recently, very big loss for the Star Wars community. Yeah. Yes, and who apparently um leaked the most things during this movie. Yeah. He was like, isn't there like six people they said, no, don't tell anything. Yeah that he um he was not told about the the Vader being Luke's father thing because

they didn't trust him at that point. Yeah, people knew, and then like when the cast saw the movie, I guess the sound people knew. They're like, wow, I didn't know that well when they were when they filmed, allegedly like that line wasn't said at all. Mark Hamill knew and He reacted as though it had been said they told him the night before, but David Prowse did not know at all, so he just thought, like, this will insert something later, not knowing how much gravity that moment

would have. Oh did they just say like, uh, how should I gesticulate? And He's like, hmm, maybe as if you're saying something really important and shocking. Maybe we're still we're still working on the script. I don't I don't know who do you all picture when or do you picture anyone at all? And is it just Vader? But do you picture Hayden Christensen grown up? Or James Uh? I was about to say James al Ray like a dummy? Um, James old Jones or Prowse, um, Sebastian Shawn. Who's that, Charles?

I'm sorry, Chassis Um he is the he was originally you know at the end of Jedi when the mask and helmet come off, that's Sebastian Shaw. Okay, I'm looking. Now tell your sister you were right. Well, yeah, now that i'm looking, I forgot about that guy. Okay, it's totally you should picture. Well. The other first in this movie is um Or. One of the other first is when you you see that, you know, iconic shot from the rear, when that helmets coming on to get that glimpse.

And I remember being nine years old and maybe just being a dumb nine year old and not knowing any backstory. I that was the first time I was sort of like, oh my god, like there's a real human in there and he is messed up. Yeah, yeah, I think this This movie is so great because the first one is like really fun and it has all these archetypes we can connect to. The second one is just like deepens those things and Darth Vader, like I a kid, I just thought, oh, he's the monster. I didn't really put

much depth into him. But by introducing him like no, he's human, you can see him and he's got he's kind of messed up, and actually he's the father of the hero character. And it just adds so much and it ups the steaks. And I mean every time I watched this movie my friends can confirm this, I react as though I am learning for the first time. Oh my god, it's so shocking. I mean, that whole sequence is uh, it may be the one of the best looking sequences in the whole franchise, with the steam and

their silhouettes and that that orange lighting everywhere. It just looks fucking fantastic and it holds up so so well, Yeah, it's a favorite twenty minutes of cinema of all time. And this is my favorite movie of all time. If that wasn't clear. But I also noticed that behind Vader at that scene, it's like a spider web, that the thing behind him, and he's like a spider at the

center waiting in this trap. And then that's repeated it with the Emperor in Return of the Jedi, where it's sort of like a spider web behind him and we didn't even have quickness yet, so I just go a little too far. Just um, they're they're like spider like creatures.

I think we first saw them in Star Wars Rebels and then, um, they're very similar, but I think not an identical species to the thing that showed up the things that showed up in the ice cave in the Mandalorian that freaked a lot of people, including my husband out. It was a little too real for him. In the arachnid zone. Umricks, well, since you brought up the Mandalorian, this is our first taste of Bubba Fett and what is it about Bubba Fett? Is it the mystery? Is

it that cool ass outfit? Like I remember being a kid and everyone just being like who is that? And why do I want to run out and get that action figure next and shoot that rocket into my mouth? And which we never got to do. Um. I don't know because I was never a Boba Fette person. I UM. I was literally the person in terms of Bounty Hunters that came out of this movie and was like, what is that lizard dud about? Like I was way interested

in boss and I um but uh yeah. As a fun little trivia moment, do you guys remember the first time Boba Fette's name was ever set on screen in a movie? No, it's not that right, t oh yeah, because he had been in the Holiday special, But his name isn't isn't uh isn't mentioned until Elliott is playing with his action figures and he mentions Boba Fett. First time it was said in a film. Well, that's one of the things about these movies is a lot of

things aren't ever mentioned. But because they were so successful at merchandizing and like, right, they became their own legendary thing. Yeah. Yeah, like the Wampa. You never he walks. I'm pretty sure has never said um. And for Palpatine it's never said.

At least it needs like original trilogy and we all kind of know that stuff because that's how impactful these But we saw the Emperor for the first time in this one, which is another thing I love because you start with Darth Vader thinking he's the ultimate villain and in this one they're like, there's someone else. He's got a boss. Yes, yeah, that was a big deal, um,

because you know, Darth Vader was the scariest. It really kind of hit me last night of how ingrained, especially when you see these things as a kid, like I guess everyone probably does. Tie Fighter bad, Imperial Cruise are bad, Vader bad, Stormtrooper bad. It's just you don't even think of them. It's so ingrained. It's like a part of our d n A even now, Like when I see those tie Fighters and I hear that sound, I'm just like, oh no. And when I see those X wings, I think,

all right, it's so weird. It's instant. Shout out to Ben Burt for those sound designs. Amazing. I think the sound design in the music. This is the first time you hear Imperial March, which is just iconic. Um. And I've read recently we did an episode on Princess Leo over on stuff I never told you, And I just read all these fascinating articles about how Star Wars is a part of like American mythology. You can't even if you don't know, it's a part of you. Even if

you haven't seen it, you probably know the twist. And there are these things that have you've absorbed without knowing about these movies. I'm gonna have to listen to that episode and the longest outline I've ever written, it's twenty five pages. Oh wow, I can't wait, because it's Leah really comes into our own in this movie. And I think it's easy to take for granted, um, the fact that you're seeing a movie in nineteen with a woman given the orders to the army. And I was nine,

so you didn't think about that stuff then. I just thought like, yeah, that makes sense, But looking back, that was a really big deal. Yeah. And I like to think, you know, when you meet Leiah, she's already a hero, Like she's already there. Luke and Han have to like go on these journeys, and she's sure she has an arc as well. But I love how Luke breaks in. He's like, I'm here to rescue you, and she's like, no, this isn't. Let me take over this plan for Yukas.

This isn't good. I love she was a badass, but I think in this movie she became a true leader, or not became one. You know, Like all great Star Wars movies, it joins it in progress, which is one thing I just love about, and especially Empire, it joins with so much inertia, with all that first act stuff on hof and leaves you with the greatest cliffhanger in movie history maybe. And I remember being thrilled at the cliffhanger and so upset that I was going to have

to wait. Uh And he didn't have to wait. You got to just pop in the next one. It was cruelty to have to wait years. It was a little brutal. Yeah, it was very hard for a young boy. Sorry for your difficulties. Oh yes, these are the greatest trials of our lives. Um actually, but also go ahead, Oh, I was just gonna say what a risk it was to put it in the middle of this trilogy, to give us such a dark film, to give us a cliffhanger.

This is the one where Lucas was like, no, I'm going to pay for it myself with a lot of borrowed money that he was very nervous about and had to do a lot of like hat in hand kind of promising to various people to make it all happen. Yeah, yeah, wow,

I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. He was pretty disillusioned by the studio system by the time uh Star Wars, which now we call a New Hope was done, And so I mean he was doing this and like Lee Brackett was working on the original screenplay, while he was getting Lucasfilm really established as a full company and not just kind of like a company on paper that was

needed for legal reasons. Like he was getting the offices set up in Marin County, he was getting his team together, he was getting I LM really up to speed to be able to do the level of effects that he wanted now that he could do a slightly bigger budget movie. Um, it's it's a lot to think about somebody in their twenties going like I'm going to take on thirty three million dollars of debt and take a risk that will

either make my career or kill it. Yeah. Yeah, And what my point was going to be similar to that of like at this time there weren't really sequels. They were thought of as worse. And then to have this movie coming off this really like popular fun you know, space romp Um to start in the middle, Like I, until I was reading about this, I didn't really realize it has no real beginning, it has no real ends um, and it's yeah, it is darker and it has these

just more complicated themes. And then you're introducing like a puppet, which there are so many things about Star Wars that now we just love them and we know like, oh, this is gonna succeed, But you didn't know that was gonna work, like introducing a mentor that was played by a puppet. Like I very clearly remember adults in my life going, wait, they're gonna have muppets in this one, like just complete incredulity that it was ever going to

be anything worthwhile. But you did. I was like, yeah, give me the puppets, that's cool, um, But adults were a little jaded ready to you were Oh no, I was. I wasn't. I was nine like you. I didn't have incredulity yet. Like, there's also the whole They start with their big action sequence, which is a flip of most blockbuster movies, A lot of them do it now I think, well,

after this, yeah, this changed completely. This the trilogy setup, the way that the stories are told in those, and then also the Summer Blockbuster, which I didn't know, but this was the beginning of a New Hope. At the beginning of the Summer Blockbuster m I might argue Jaws, well Jaws, yeah, but um, did you know what New Hope was rescheduled because of Smokey and the Bandit They

thought that was going to be more successful. Hey, very quick, that makes sense right, It's like big names, it's fun, it's comedy, sexy ladies like I could see where somebody on paper went, this is the movie that's going to make money this year. Like I understand that. So uh. Everyone talks about Larry Kasten and the writing, but someone I don't know much about is Lee Brackett, and I would love to hear more about her. Well. One of the reasons we don't know a lot about her is

because she died two weeks after she finished the initial script. Yeah, she had cancer. She wrote this while she was, um, you know, in the ends of her treatment. So she wrote this the first draft by herself, and then it was handed over to Lawrence Caston and George Lucas. Yeah, so that's that's one of the reasons there have been many discussions over the years about how much is really

hers that remains in the final version. Um. But yeah, she she doesn't get a lot of attention because she was not around and she didn't, you know, work on subsequent projects. She didn't do the revisions on it, etcetera. Do we have any real intel on her original story? Um? Yeah, so, I mean those original drafts exist. Like one of the interesting things is that Yoda had I think he was called the critter in the very first one, um, and then that that evolves a few times, but they're all

kind of names like that, where it's like the little monkey. Um, the theme's got a little bit darker in the rework. Um. I haven't done a lot of a lot of scholarship level study of of how that shifts. I feel like, wasn't it in her version? There was the twin was revealed at the end in her name was like Nellis or something. There were some other um, some other familial shifts I know that went on, Like I think obi Wan was even introduced as possibly being Luke's parentage instead

of Vader. Um. Yeah, there were a lot of stuff did change from when to the next. And let's talk about Irban Kirshner. Uh to say about the curse? Well, it's interesting, right. The last movie he did before this was Eyes of Laura Mars, which is a fade dunaway film. Um. There's he had done a lot of television directing. He got his his big break really because rodd Or Corman

let him direct some TV. Um. But it's interesting because everyone associates him with this film, like he could make whatever he wanted for the rest of his life and he was always going to be Empires director. What else did he do? He? Um? Oh, I was I was not ready to shift gears back to what else Kirsch did? What's interesting? Um, I want to mention in terms of Empire, most people will say, I think you guys would agree.

I know I would that in terms of acting and character, this is the strongest of the original trilogy, and it's because Kirshner was very into like, let's work with the actors on set, let's improvise, let's do this, which drove production bananas because this film went way over budget. It's like, when we're out in the the snow of Norway, is not really the time to spend a lot more money. So people can say this one line a few different ways, um, but he was like, no character driven, we gotta let

these actor to figure this out. Uh. That's really because of Kirshner. So it looks like he did never say never again the Bond film, and that was the next thing he did, right when Connery came back a few years later. And then RoboCop two. Wow, I haven't seen that, So I don't know how to react to robot Cop two. Well, I mean it's it's been a while for me to be it's not RoboCop one, that's all I'll say. Well, I haven't seen robot Cop one, so I don't know how to react to that. Uh. So we talked a

little bit about the clothes. I mean, part of the fun of of seeing this as a kid was literally just seeing different hairstyles and different clothes. You know Han, Uh. They are all sort of in largely the same clothes in the first movie, except for you know, with a couple of exceptions. But just seeing Han in that jacket instead of the vest, uh, and seeing Luke sort of styled out just a little bit more and not in his in his armed boy outfit, really kind of cool stuff.

His hair looks darker too. I think all those winter clothes. Yeah, boy, how look in that fuzzy coat listen, which is brown? By the way, on film it looks blue. Oh is it that actual costume pieces brown? One of us might have followed around the Star Wars costume exhibit as though it were the Grateful Dead. My note here says uh Han was so hot in his snow bunny clothes last night I was watching, I was like, vah bah boom. I forgot about that jacket dar me. Yeah, Han on

a Tanton is pretty gallant. That's some dashing business. That stuff still looks pretty good too. I mean it's go motion, which you know, obviously he's not gonna hold up to like today's standard, but it looks pretty great. I think the uh, the Tontons look good. I think they shot him in a pretty smart way with when they weren't moving, they just sort of did those pretty pretty tight close ups where you just got a taste of the rest of the animal um and you know, you thought they

smelled bad on the outside. It's one of the great lines ever. Yeah, that has so many quotable lines. Of most of them Rahans too. I don't know, that's got a few pretty much everything. Joda says, it's kind of quotable just because as a kid, you like doing that voice. Yeah, see if you can pull it off. What are your some of your favorite iconic moments that are not you know, I'm your father, Like that's sort of on the nose ones. I know you're thinking of three thousand things each, I know,

I know. I love literally everything with Lando. I mean, yeah, everything with Lando. I really think nobody gives Billy Williams enough credit for how stink and good he is in this movie. Yeah, Like he could have been chew the scenery level charmer, but he downplays it just enough that he's just smooth his silk at every turn, even when

he's being choked. But you really get a sense of their friendship and um there, and he even sort of has a little uh outfit homage at the end when he's wearing that vest I never really picked up on that before. Well, I feel like they were like, maybe Han Solo won't come back, so this might be Solos wearing his clothes. How did y'all feel about the Han Solo movie? Seeing the scene where he won the how he won the Millennium Falcon? Did that? We're all good

with that? You can't you can't see me on the microphone drawing hearts in the air. I I seriously love that film, Like I Solo was like perfect for me? Okay, Annie, Yeah, I I loved it too. I thought it was really fun um and it inspired a lot of debates, very silly debate between me and my friend about like did Lando have sex with the Millennium Falcon? Which don't weigh in it's stupid. But you're not the only people having those discusses. In my heart, I know that's why. I

just not surprising at all. But it's been a minute since I've seen it. I did love Donald Glover's Lando, like, oh, yes, so good, one of the great casting calls of all time. I think, yeah, perfect. The cape like his little cape, I ha Cape closets dream. Yeah, I mean, oh, I was just gonna say, I think it pretty nicely and carefully set up, you know, their relationship in retrospect in

a way that wasn't for me too heavy handed. I know some people thought it was a little a little too on the nose at times, but I really thought it was kind of pitch perfect. Yeah. I liked it. I need to see it again. My first viewing experience wasn't great, so that's never good. I need to give it to do um. But in Empire, I remember when I was nine, just being so devastated by the double crossing when those doors open and you see Vader. I was crushed, and you know, he redeems himself obviously, but

I was really really upset. You know. I remember thinking because I'm a Pisces, and pisces are all about loyalty and friendship and I didn't know that at the time, but there wasn't anything worse you could do. And I still feel that way than than betray a friend like that. Yeah, it's ugly, but I think it's also an interesting entry point for kids, whether they're cognizant of it or not. I'm sure none of us were like, oh, this gives me a way to think about the nuances of the

difficulties of life. But it does it you realize, like, if he hadn't betrayed Han all of the people that he was responsible for investment, we're potentially going to die or be enslaved. It's like, that's a I wouldn't want to be put in that position. And he says, and he makes it quite clear over and over. Best Bin is bt dubs the one place in the Star Wars universe I would move without hesitation, although I doubt I

could afford an apartment. I'm looking up Best But now and then you know, I was thinking about like just the set pieces in this and they're amazing because you got half and like this barren snowy place, and then

you got dug above, which is the swamp. And then I what I love about Best Bin is it's beautiful, it's stunning, but then like when you go in deeper, it becomes this kind of laborate trap, like like the lighting, the orange and the blue and juxtapositions, so it's like really pretty on the outside, but the deeper and deeper you go, the more frightening and unsettling. It is. Look, everything beautiful has to be supported by probably an ugly infrastructure,

so always a cloud city. What is cloud city? To explain that? What's the best been compared to cloud City? Oh, it's just a different word. Yeah, okay, Yeah, we don't mean to confuse yourself, I know. I mean that's why I have y'all in here, you know, well, and I mean to be fair, right, best Bin is in fact the planet. It's the gas giant in the star system that is the best Bin system, and then cloud City hovers above all that. Man, this is great. I'm so sorry.

I love this so much. Sorry. Um yeah, so, but it gets used interchangeably on the casual so that's what's up with that. Yeah. I have another first here on my list. When Luke gives Chewy that little scratch on the neck, which is great and adorable. That's sort of the first time I think that we see Chewy kind of treated like an animal, and you know, like you would scratch a dog, and he clearly loves It's not an animal though, I've never really thought about that anyone

else ever scratched him like that. I'm trying to think if he got i know, Leiah hugs him right in a New Hope, but I don't know if she gave him any scratches in the process. That scritch was so cute, it is. Listen, I like scritches. It doesn't make me an animal. Scratch your neck. You probably like that, right, I like it. I'm always scratching my own head like I'm a kiddie. So yeah, just delightful. I like to that.

We get a little bit more of Han and Chewy's kind of married people bickering, fighting over the repairs, and like, listen, I'm doing my part, yes, And I love the Millennium. Falcon is like this old car that never really works, but it's so loved any well, it's so well used in this movie. The running joke of the hyper space jump and that great sound effect you know that weren't like literally like a sad trombone version of the Spaceship. Uh.

It's it's great. I mean it's a classic movie thing to to bring something back a few times and then you think you need it all these times, but when you really really really need it, it comes through. Yeah. Well, and it's also like a lovely I always think of the Millennium Falcon is really like the part of George Lucas's roots that just loves muscle cars and like drag racing and all of that. It is the beater that

delivers when you need it. It's great. Yeah, And I like to think of the Empire just having all these headaches over the ship that in Fury, like it's just breaking down all the time, and yes, it manages to get away, did you guys? Um? This is one of those things every time I watched this movie, because this one was the first time we really see what a dick of a manager Darth Vader is, where I was just like, who would want to work for the Empire? Like,

what is the benefit? Is it the only way that you make any kind of money in the galaxy during this time? Because I don't see another reason to take this job. Yeah, I mean I have a Star Wars drinking game, and every time he chokes somebody is definitely one. I have to imagine there's some type of pride I would think of, like being competent enough for Vader, but

I'm sure it's just fear all the time. And then I'm also kind of perplexed at his plan in general, Like I don't know why he went after on in La when he could have just got after Luke. But you know, Vader's got a Vader. I it's definitely an organization where you probably have to give some thought of how high you want to work up that ladder um, you know, like the need that much better to be

chokable or to just be one of those dudes. It's definitely flying under the radar, Like there's so many and I didn't even notice this much until this viewing, so many great little side I shots of all these guys

that are like, oh ship is he? Especially oh boy at the end when it finally does jump to hyperspace and everyone's looking around like, oh god, are we all gonna be toast and knuckles on the executive he walks by that one guy that sort of puts them on an iPad kind of like okay, he's just walking by, and right as he walks by, he goes and no one gets killed, And it's just it's such a kind of funny moment. I think that you gotta be a

little bit older to appreciate I have. I told you guys, I have two cats named after Imperial officers in this film, what are they awesome? And Viers? Okay, which which ones are they are? The two they're gray? That was kind of the cell to my husband when Um, a friend of our rescued them and I immediately wanted to with the kittens out of the four that they had rescued, and I was like, but they're in little They're great. They're like in little impure uniforms. Brian, we called Osla Beers.

That was the cell. How many how many cats do you have? Now? Five? Okay? And now Ozalin Beers are are elderly gents there about to turn sixteen. So there. Wow, they've survived Vader. Now which guys are they in the movie? Are they the main two? Osal is the one that gets choked because he comes at a hyperspace too close to the hot system? Oh? Is he the one that gets choked and dies? Yeah? That scene amazing. It's almost like a sketch, a comedy sketch. Oh yeah, like Mr

Show or something. He's just falling down in the background and the other guys kind of like half listening and half like Okay, this is happening right now? Right? Yeah? P is like when do I step into frame? Like I don't know what to do here. Um, and then General Maximilian Beers is the one that leads the ground assault on Okay. You see him in the cockpit of one of the adults, and he's one of the few

imperials that survives. Yeah. I think it's one of the fun things about this movie is you can you can laugh at some of this stuff in that scene which is kind of corny in the end, which you know, the guy flitting around on his little tablet or whatever, and you can find humor in that and not. It's not like dissing the movie in any way. No. I actually one of the things when I think about why I love these movies so much, I think it that's

part of it. Is there so sincere. There are these really goofy elements, like the ice cream maker guy or gonk or that his name is Will row Hood. I like calling ice cream maker guy his name is Will row Hood. I know he's a back story, but he's always ice cream maker. A guy to men would happen at some point. But I love that. We just love it so much and it it because it's so sincere and so genuine. It works and you can find like joy in those things instead of like making fun of it.

It's sort of like, oh, this joyful experience. Yeah, and it's very difficult, I think, to pull that off, but they did it totally. Uh, let's talk about the genius of splitting with bringing everyone together at the beginning. These characters that we love so much had that great uh first act, so much action and adventure and then splitting

everyone up. We're splitting up Luke from from the Gang and splitting up our two and three p O. It was just such a smart move, Like structurally, I think, Yeah, I've never really appreciated how Mark Hamill really doesn't act

with a lot of human people. In this movie, him and Frank Oz hanging out in the swamp, and he couldn't really hear him, right, so he's just kind of like reacting when they pointed at him hear him because he was under a platform performing well, I mean like no, apparently not like you know, he just was was removed from the main set in a way that they would have had to drill holes I think everywhere to make

the sound carry upward. Yeah, all that stuff is so great though, I mean getting introduced to the Hath was a big deal because you see something different. Seeing Dagoba for the first time was this really cool new world, even though it was gross and swampy, and uh, I love camping and I love small spaces. So and it may have started with Yoda's hut quite frankly, because last night I was getting all the spiny tingles when he was in that little tiny space and had that fire going.

I was just like, how man, I want to live in that thing. I should send you a recipe for root leaf stew you can complete the Yeah, there's a really good one actually in the Galaxy said cookbook. I thought I would hate it. Um. That cookbook is amazing, by the way, for anybody who has not picked it up, I have literally made every single recipe in it and winners, winners. It's not um, it's not like a lot of novelty cookbooks are really really aimed at kids and like people

that don't cook. But this has legitimate cooking going on in it. Um. And root leaf stew is like this great little vegetarian mushroom and root vegetables thing that has cinnamon in it. And I thought I would not like it, and in fact I love it. There's my plug for a book that I have nothing to do with the fact that I read it a lot. Any have you ever made Star Wars meals Chuck? Of course I've made Star I love this. I love feeling like you're in the minority. I know, right, it's so rare. Well duh

on life day. I know, I know, you know my deal. I love the ship out of these movies, but I just didn't next level. You didn't. Yeah, y'all exist next level. So it's a wonderful thing. Yeah, I mean. And speaking of first, this is the first time you meet Yoda, and uh, he is so opposite of what you would think when you think of this like Jedi warrior. And I love that they play on that Luke is immediately

like no, it's not you like, leave me alone. Um. And I love because this is a pretty classic Heroes arc with Luke's storyline, but I love how it's this one in particular, like he starts needing rescuing and he ends needing rescuing and it's just like constant failure, and it makes it it feels like this is more of a person now unless like this hero caricature, this is somebody who has a lot to learn and has like these struggles overcome and then you get that big reveal

at the end and you're like, well, now this is way more complicated and like everything I knew to be true isn't true? And what do I do with that? And what how dangerous that is? Like they say, this is a very dangerous time for you, Luke, it is. That's why I like Luke and that's uh, maybe we should all just do a Return of the Jedi together too, can we please? Yeah, let's do it because that movie I've already done a new hope, but we should do

it again. Tarn Killium picked that, which is speaks to him. But um, that's one thing I didn't like about Jedi was that Luke was too much of a badass, and I was like, where's that guy? That kid that needed help?

He was too tough and too too good doing what he did, which is funny because you know, it's a very much dialed back version of Luke than what Mark Hamill initially wanted to do, Like he wanted to be like even more ripped, yes, completely like you know, super hard ass, like really really bill like he'd been doing. And George Lucas just like, No, the point is that he learns that none of that is what actually gives

you strength. There's a Jedi. Yeah, Um, it's about like learning where your center is and and being part of the living force and not necessarily going out and dominating things. Um, that's a nice segue actually to the I feel like an empire. We get more of the spirituality and much more of the force and sort of what that means. It's obviously uh Obi wan Kenobi hinted that stuff in the first one, But uh, I don't know what you people call it? What is it? The religion? You people? Right? No,

next levelers, next levelers call it? Because I don't want to say the wrong thing. I'm scared now, Like if you call if you call um what the Jedi order a religion? Yeah? Or just the force? You know it? Really you get more more knowledge about it in this

as what it is. That's a clumsy way to say it. Yeah, I mean, I think it's easy to take for granted out that we've seen them and they've been a part of our cultural psyche for so long, But at this point you didn't really know much about the forest and the light side in the dark side and um, like that whole vision in the cave, that like really creepy vision and having Yoda say things like luminous beings are we um it did. And I remember as a kid, and I think this is really funny now because I

think it speaks to who I became. I really was suspicious of the force. I was like, I don't know about this, and I was I was. I was thinking Luke was getting tricked and I was like, you need to stay away from this whole thing. Yeah, And I would get really mad about it. My brothers should be like, what are you talking about? Like, no, I don't. I don't trust any of this, even at four. And actually, you know, it's interesting now with the prequels and everything.

I always thought that, oh god, this is probably a bigger discussion. But I always thought that Luke had what made Luke special. They were kind of trying to destroy and it. And then in the end, you know, he kind of chooses he makes his own path, which worked out in various not so great ways but also good ways. But like when he throws away his lightsaber and he has to confront Vader, and as a kid, I was like, well,

why are they making a confront Vader. I don't understand. Um, you could keep saying no violence, but now I know confront doesn't have to be right, confront doesn't mean physical fight. Yes, yeah, I mean I will say I think I have some of those same seeds because to me, the parts of the Star Wars saga that are most interesting and beloved by me are not the Jedi parts. It's like the

scrappy people just trying to make their way in the universe. Um, because all of that dogma, did I I do the same thing where I lean away from it and I'm like, yeah, um, I don't know about this, Yeah, I don't. I would not have been a part of the Jedi order for sure. Well, I think you know, you're spawning to human stories, and like, these movies would not have worked had there not been you know, a great love story at the heart of it, and and stories of redemption and the hero's journey, Like

that's all I got to be there. Otherwise it would have been uh, I'm trying to think of sort of a bad kind of corny space movie from back then. But you had to have those elements for it to work. Yeah, right, I mean, the the heart of it I mean, I say this about everything, but I firmly believe in my soul like what most people are responding to in stories is all about identity and how they identify themselves, how they identify interacting with that story, and who they identify

with in the story. And in this case, you have a bunch of people. Luke is trying to figure out who the hell he is and what this new information, which is a little bit bonkers to be taking in. I mean, do you remember Chuck as a kid when Obi one showed up was a ghost? Were you like, what the hell is going on here? Like it completely

cracked the whole thing open in a new way. Yeah, I remember being very confused and there being a lot of playground debate about how those lightsabers worked, because like it'll cut off a hand, it'll also vanish a motherfucker. But also he's alive in another We thought he was just in like another dimension or something, and there was just a lot of speculation about how it worked and where old ben Kenobi went. I still don't know if

I understand it. That's just one of those things where like there is a lot of uh later information that kind of helps bolster those stories right where Quigan is really the first one that figured out that that idea of becoming so one with the force, that death was not the end um and that you could still communicate with people in the physical realm, which just kind of ironic because that's what Palpatine was promising, right, and he

wanted it so bad and he couldn't get it. And I do have a question for you guys, and I don't I'm presuming everyone is up on the Mandalorian. I'm not the season okay, um, so Annie, take my headphones off for a couple of minutes if you want this. This really will not matter at all. I don't think you we all know. I'm not going to give any spoilers because I it's so fun to have the discovery on that show. But so we know at this point

that the baby is fifty. The last time I watched Empire, I had this like gobsmacked moment because Yoda mentions that he has been training Jedi for eight hundred years. He mentions in Jedi that he's nine hundred years old, so by this time scale, it's like he was still a little kid when he started training Jedi, right, Because like don't know what happens in the fifty years between fifty and a hundred, that's true, but developmentally the baby is still real, little and very much a baby at fifty.

So it was just, Ah, it makes me look at everything about Yoda differently, where I'm like, is this why he is so childlike in so many ways? Is that just an aspect of this species that they always retain that kind of like silly, impulse driven wonder for the entirety of their lives. Um, yeah, it's a It makes Yoda super interesting in new ways to me. Maybe he was exaggerating. Um, Yoda never lies. Another thing that's funny about I guess me as a kid is I also

I like Yoda, but that's a type of character. I'm automatically suspicious of the wise old character that's the mentor that seems to know everything. So I was really like, you know, I like your voice and you're funny, but I don't think I don't see what you're doing. Are

you manipulating me? I don't like this like this. Um. But one of the things I really love about this movie is it the whole thing feels kind of dream like and surreal and definitely on dega boat that gets upped, Like it just feels like, is this really happening right now? Am I hallucinating? You know? It? Is? It like if they would have pulled the rug out and said that was a dream sequence the whole time, it would have made a little bit of sense, um because it is

sort of surreal. And Luke keeps saying things about like I feel like I've been here before and uh he

alludes to some of that stuff. And it also like as far as the first go the u when that X wing is is floated out of the swamp, that was I remember being a kid and and being like, okay, so wow, the force is much more than lifting rocks and uh, and you know, being able to close your eyes and block laser shots with a lightsaber, like the true true power of it really kind of hit home when that X wing and it was such a great, great part of the movie. Yeah, I know, Tucker with

t t he said that's his favorite, his favorite scene. Um, that is why you fail. Uh and the music there is so great. I yeah, I cried this morning, you guys. You know which part. And I didn't see it coming. It just all of a sudden my eyes balls were leaking at nine a m. Do you want to take a guess? I want to make an ug not joke, but that's not I wanna Is that like a knock knock joke? Oh? The ug knots on Cloud City, those little those little pig face looking dude in the Mandalorian

Queen is an ug not. This is the first time we see ug knots, which also become important and that would make me cry. I don't know, maybe anyone. And you gotta guess. See three po getting blasted the pieces kind of funny, so you're the second half? Uh oh, yeah, there's a clue. Content is it when Leah senses Luke? Fuck? Yes, it was. That's a moment for me too that sometimes triggers me unexpectedly because out of nowhere, I don't think there's a human alive that has more expressive eyes than

Carrie Fisher. In that moment, Yeah, it was. I mean I was just watching the movie having a good old time and that music swelled. Yeah, I'm like starting to get choked up even just thinking about it, so let's just move on. But I was fully fucking crying on the couch, very very powerful moment, and I was just like, what is it. I've seen this movie dozens of times after all these years as a forty nine year old man to just break down in tears like that, Like,

what is it about these people? It's remarkable? It is it is. I mean, I, like Holly said, I feel like you are. Do I identify with these people? And it just feels I had a friend who refused to watch Star Wars for the longest time, and she kept saying, I don't like space and I don't like sci fi. And I was like, yeah, she doesn't like things in space, and I was like, it's not. It's like a a

fantasy or a fairy taler. It's these archetypes. He seems we all connect to you, Like, if you take away that space part, we're just we're into these human characters and how they connect and interact with each other. And it's so powerful. Still, like I said, I still act though. When Luke gets his hand cut off and the relevlation comes, I'm like, no, this is awful. Every time I have a theory on why it sets you off, Chuck Um.

Just because there's there is a great deal of emotional resonance in that moment, and I think part of it is right like we see Luke right before that at an extraordinarily terrifying point, right like he is literally dangling from a weather vane over a gas giant, like we don't know. And the idea that at your very darkest time, someone that just loves you enough, that you have a deep enough connection that they will just know you need

help is very moving. And since you did mention as a Pisces that like those kinds of like loyalty relationships are very important to you, I would see why that would be a real touch point for you. Will you be my therapist? I can't find a good one. Online therapy sucks. I have been very happy with online therapy. Really yeah. My my therapist that I had for four years left though this year she decided to start teaching full time, which sucked because she was really into Star Wars.

So we had all of this like shorthand where we could talk about it and she would talk about Darth Vader psychology forever if I let her, which was great. So like, sometimes I feel like my husband is just nothing more than a scruffy looking nerve d I feel you and then he pops in the background in the zoom and goes, who's scruffy looking? Yeah. I tried this one new guy online therapy and I literally could tell he was distracted and like surfing the internet or something,

and I ghosted him. I just like I left the meeting. I was like, Mmm, I'm not even gonna finish this one. Yeah, if it's not working, that's not If it's not working, it's not working. He emailed me and he's like, was there something wrong with your connection? I was like, dude, I'm not even gonna email you back. Yeah, there was something wrong with the connection. He wouldn't have sensed you dangling from a weather vein and meeting help. No, what are some of the other favorite lines? Um, never tell

me the odds? I mean, that's one of the greats, laughing up, laughing up, buzzball, do you or do not? Do or do not? It's cliche, but damn that's some good advice. No, I'm your father, which everyone not everyone gets wrong next leveler certainly don't. But it's one of the misquoted lines in movie history, I think, don't you know, Yeah, one of the most misquoted. Yeah, I do it. I don't do it anymore because I'm the next leveler, as

you say, but I did when I was younger. I've got one line that it is not iconic, but I think it was such a great efficient way to set up who Lando is. Is that exchange that that he and that Hanna Leia have right when they get there, She goes, can you trust him? And he goes, no, but he's got no love for the Empire. I'll tell you that. Like, that's all you need to know about the guy not trustworthy but ultimately on our side. Yeah yeah, and then becomes a heroic general of the the resistance.

Yeah yeah. I was always I'm not mad about this, but I was always kind of like, wow, Han came out of this carponite thing and then just trusted Lando immediately. I kind of like, wait, admit, let's talk about the Carbon Nite Okay. How awful that scene was to see for the first time. It was very upsetting. There was a lot of I mean again, because I'm in your age group. I remember hearing other kids in the audience go is he dead? Like immediately, and that the look

on his face. The way they did it, it was it was meant to devastate. Yeah, and it succeeded. Yeah, And he's said right now, it is interesting Again. I get sometimes I get really jealous that I didn't have this experience of not knowing, But um, it is interesting too. Remember that these were made like kids were in minds largely. And I find it really interesting that George Lucas like talked to child psychologists and was like, is this really

going to mess them up? Especially with Vader? And that's why he was told that if a kid really couldn't handle it, they wouldn't believe it because it was a villain saying I am your father. But that's why, And Jedi Yoda confirms it's like, no, actually he really is. Yeah. He Um, he gave that great quote. You might have. You probably read the same thing any where he was.

He was telling someone there has to be as we go out of this movie, if we're going to leave it, there a level of deniability to that fact, because otherwise kids cannot cope for three years in the sadness of it, like you have to give them a trap door to be like, no, he's the bad guy. So he was lying, right, Oh, and I that's it's I love hearing you guys talk about this because again I've just always known Han came out of the Carponite, so I didn't have that like

it was upsetting. And I if he hadn't come back and he had, just if Harrison Ford had not come back and Han Solo was just lost some hanging on job as wall, that would have been very, very upsetting. Yeah. Yeah, And I think this is to talk about the experiences of being a kid and having to wait, and then the way that you were able to consume it. It's just proof that there is no right way. Uh, and it's just a little different. I mean, part of me is jealous that you got to dive right into the

sequel and didn't have to wait. I'm not gonna sit here and say like, no, it was better to have to wait in the suspense and everything. It was awful. That's all we talked about for I mean, however many years it was until Jedi came out. Three Um, but you can you can consume these in different ways at different ages and they're all great and okay and correct. Yeah. And in those three years you got to carry around those sweet sweet Kenner carry cases full of toys. Although

that was getting to the age. I'm curious about this for you, Chuck Um, because I know for me, I remember seeing Jedi when I was twelve and saying something about it at school, and some snarky little mean ger always like Star Wars is dorky. And I wasn't like embarrassed or shame but I was like, I'm just not going to talk about Star Wars with people for a while.

This is mine alone now, um, which is funny because one of my closest friends from high school, he and I did not know until much later in life that we had both been Star Wars dorks the whole time, because we both had that experience of like, I just won't talk about this with people because not everybody's going to get it. I don't remember there being any sort of dorky. I don't know. Maybe I was naive. I was definitely naive, I'll tell you that, but I kind

of thought everyone loved it. I had a because I had two brothers, and Star Wars was seen as a

more mascu than thing. Like I was telling you, before we got started to check, my parents always gave them the Star Wars stuff, even though I liked it just as much and so I almost had a pressure to like I was protected within the shield of my brother's world, where I they thought it was cool, and I was trying to be cool enough for them, so they'd let me play with their Star Wars toys and that sort of shielded me from because I was a pretty like I dressed as Jedi for Halloween, Like I was a

pretty outward fan. But I just felt so like because I had those brothers to compete with, I was a very competitive child. Holly, what did you collect? What were your you know, like back then, what did you collect? Did you think about leaving them in the package for value or were you like just the thing for me? And I don't know why, but I loved it as

a kid. I love it today. Any damn mail away, Yes, So after Empire there was this amazing mail away where you could get an accessory pack that had the the the gas masks that they wear when they're in the space lug, some cute little like hot gear backpacks and stuff, and that stuff was like you can buy it, No, you had to do a mail away with the cardbacks. Um.

That stuff is amazing and I love it desperately. Um, it's one of those things that when I moved away from home, I left a lot of my Star Wars toys, which my older brother snagged. But I married into an even better collection and then regained much of mine, much of us totally. I have no idea. We're ridiculous at our house. Um, and then I regained some of my collection as well. But yeah, I mean I had Best Been Leia on my um wedding cake like I don't or no, I think Best Been Lea was on a

secondary table. I had regular classic Leia on the cake. So I had a lot of the the you know, the small action figures played with him like crazy. I had the uh, I guess it was at the twelve inch Luke Skywalker doll, but only Luke. For some reason, I had to think. I think I had the Millennium Falcon. I had a land Speeder for sure, and then I had and I still have some of the trading cards

I had that calendar. I wasn't a comic book guy, but somehow I do have that first addition, that first issue of the Star Wars comic, and a couple of other of the comics. But I wasn't like these were you know, we didn't have a ton of money. My parents. My dad was a high school or elementary school principle, and so we were, you know, solidly middle class kids. But it wasn't like I want all the stuff, get

it for me. It was this Christmas, you'll get this many things, and if you mow enough lawns, you'll you can get some other stuff. So I had a nice collection, but it wasn't exhaustive or anything like that. I feel like I should stop talking because I will incriminate myself. I'm still collecting at a ridiculous rate. The classics off like the vintage vintage. I have a little uh habit as you guys, I think now right, Grito is my jam. I love Grito in every way, and so I have

like a whole lot of rescue gritos. Like if I'm at a toy show and I'll see a bin full of loose figures, I can't leave the gritos. I don't want them to be there, sad and grimy and being touched by people that don't love them. Um. But also, I mean, Brian and I just collect a lot. We both had a lot of stuff when we got married, but it has only grown and grown and grown, and you know, we don't have kids, so like I don't have to worry about somebody's college that just goes into

Star Wars. Um. But yeah, I um ah, there's some good toys coming out. That Black Series stuff is, now, what's that? The Black Series is the stuff that is. I really like the six inch Black Series. They're also doing three and three quarter, which is the scale of the action figures we got when we were kids. They're just a little more detailed, um the six inch one obviously because the scale is a little bit larger. Get a little bit more detailed. Um. And I one of

my most beloved possessions right now. It was actually a gift from a very dear friend. Um. Sideshow does some amazing one six scale figures. And I have the best been Lea that came out last year. Oh my god, the details, like her little cape is actually embroidered and it's all like the most beautiful thing you've ever seen on the planet. I would put it in the Loup it's that good. Um, it's not even joking. So yeah, my best been Leia is up there, and the things

I collect as well, anything best been Leya. I want all right, I just had to look at best been Leah. Of course it's great. Yeah, what about you and you collect stuff like that? I do definitely, Um, I'm more of a shirts person. But also yeah, cosplay pointing as this is my cosplay closet. Um, And I was going to do a we had a group of Princess Leiah's.

We were going to be different Princess Leiah's. And then I was doing a transition of Luke Skywalker cosplay because if you notice, like the first one he's wearing all white and this one it's like all gray and the next one it's all black. Nice transition that I was going to do. And then I did have I mean, I'm not proud to admit this, but you know, my brother's got all the Star Wars toys and I would slowly steal them. Um, so I still have like a

hidden box under my bed of like the Star Wars story. Yeah, yeah, you know, I'm not sure where my stuff is. I think my brother may have it. Get it back, Chuck. I had the calendar. I don't think that comic is even around because I think those might actually have a little value to them. Yeah, probably, but like who sells

that stuff. I was about to say some people, Yeah, you know, it's one of those things where I definitely know friends that have gotten to a point where they're like, I'm just kind of, you know, have it in a drawer, but I know there's someone out there that would like this would make their year to be able to acquire it, and it's they kind of do that balance, especially if they're doing like a house purge or something re prioritizing how they want to manage their stuff, if they're going

through a Marie condo phase or whatever, and then they will sometimes part with it. I can't part with anything, so I just sit on a growing pile of action figures you have. I don't know. You know, we don't do reckoning at our house. We don't count that's good, that's good. Don't do it everywhere. I have an altar, which is really a wall, like it started out in my sewing room. I have, like, there's a wall that's got a door right in the middle that goes um into a bathroom. And on one side of it, I

had said, now the bathrooms pink. It doesn't look like take them at all, um, but it goes so on one side of that to one side of a door I had set up like a little corner and it's got shelving in their pieces of art. I collect original grito art as well, like all occasionally commission and artists

to do a painting or whatever. Um, And it has shelves, and it has various gritos of all shape, sizes, ILKs types, and then there's a little green velvet bench under it and that's where I drink my coffee in the mornings. But my art and stuff collection has grown, so it's now continued across the other side of the door to the other part of the wall, and I don't We've had to move some art out into the living room because it's just um, listen, I I can't contain the

grito collection. But the movie crushers are gonna want to see this, So if you feel comfortable sending me a picture, I'll post it on the on the movie Crush page and to the delight of everyone, well, I love a little love of a little grito art. One of my favorite pieces. One of my very dear friends commissioned for me last year an artist to do grito like the

Mexican Saint style. So it's a Santa Grito and it's absolutely beautiful and I love it so much, and it's on black velvet and it's like everything you can ever hope for in life. It's really beautiful. She did a really beautiful job. Well, do you all have anything else on your notes for Empire? Yes? Well, and Annie, I

know you've got like eight pages still, yes, let's hear it. Um. Well, I would love to talk about the end, like the duel with Vader and the loss of hands um, because if it's really fun to watch it when you do know it's his father, because it feels, you know, Luke is the one who attacks first invaders, just kind of testing him to see to see what he can do, and all these little things, even at his interaction with the Emperor reads really differently when you know that Luke

is his son. So I like having that added layer of familial drama, which again I think we can all relate to. Uh. And it's just scary, like the way he's sort of the shadow hulking after him in this maze and kind of just really humiliating him almost like drawing it out, and then to lose the hand and to lose the innocence of who you thought your father was and what you thought your destiny was, and how it's what could happen? How did that happen to his father,

and how could that happen to you? Um, it's my favorite. It's my favorite. Yeah, the moment where Luca and I remember very distinctly being nine, in the moment where Luke releases and chooses to I mean, I'm sure he thought he was going to die and getting miraculously saved by the coolest slide in space. I do love to like Darth Vader was like this is his first taste at parenting, and he's like, come with me, and it sounds like

I'll die first. Vader after that like a nice cut back to him just being like, oh, you know, it's children or stuffor in Vaders also reading a book on parenting, trying to take that plan. Vader like cut off his hand, terrorize his friends. Just know that's the way to win your child's love. That's the thing I never really thought of, because you know, at a certain point, when you see something enough and you've seen it since as far as

you can remember, you don't question why things happen. I never really understood it as a child that he was letting go to die or potentially die. I just was like, well, he's fine, so I don't I didn't think about it right, and that weird a series of slides and trapdoors that it felt like at that point, Lucas is just like, hey, listen, I have this idea for this cool last shot of him hanging below the spaceship, Like how do we get

him down there? When you think about it psychologically though, too, write like someone who has had that moment, because going into that, Obi Wan and Yodor like, we cannot help you. You're you're flying solo if you do this. Yeah, it's kind of like someone that falls to their death and it's a really long fall when they have time to think about it, Like you consider what must be going through his head as he slides. He's like, is this

what saves me? Oh no, I'm falling somewhere. I thought I gave up, but maybe there's some Now there's no hope, like I can't. That's a real like way to mess with somebody's hit. Yeah, especially when he sort of comes to arrest at the end of the slide, He's like, all right, he's trying to get his bearings and then he's gone a hatch apparently bad luck? That yeah, bad luck. Yeah.

I was thinking about it when I was rewatching it, which I absolutely didn't need to do, but I definitely did um because I feel like we all have that moment when we become adults and we realize our parents aren't superhuman and they're human too, and they can make mistakes, and this is like that to the integree like this, like, oh no, I couldn't get much worse than this. Yeah, have you played Battlefront? Annie? Yeah? They played battle Front?

Did you play battle Front? To the old battle Front to where you could run around in the best spin hallways all the time? That was seven right? Was that too? Uh? Yeah? I loved all of the best spin tunnel levels. That used to be date night at our house. Let's just run around best been shooting things for we were seven hours. I was actually talking about somebody the other day the Super Nintendo version of Empire Strikes Back. The game was

so hard and how games back then. I don't know if it's because like clunky mechanics are I don't know, but like that game, I just remember it being so difficult. I never played it. Oh man, I mean, I don't think I never beat it. I couldn't. It's impossible. Um, game engines were very different. They were they were quite quite quite different. Something else I wanted to touch on because I think this is a really interesting generational gap is um I think she just called this old child.

No no, no, no no no. I almost all of my friends I did like a survey before this when we were doing our Princess Lea episode. Almost all of my friends said they thought Han Solo was way too mean for Princess Leah and that she deserved better. And I feel like in this movie in general, but yeah, in this movie, yeah, well, I mean, I think one of the genius things about the character that was that he always had one ft out the door. Uh, and you never knew. I mean, it was in Star Wars, it

was in a New Hope, it was in this. You know, he's he's always trying to get out of there to live his own life and go back to his life the anti hero. And yeah, you know that's not necessarily being mean Delaya, but he certainly wasn't there for her and until he kind of had to be that fair. Well, I'm like you, hollywaare I don't like a lot of romance, so it was never my thing. I never really thought

about it too much. And so we did that episode, and I've read arguments where it's actually the Han and Layer relationship is kind of a flip on traditional stereotypes, where he's the one that's like, look, i'm staying, I'm helping with your rebellion, but I need you to admit, like, yeah, this is worth staying for like that that it's not

a dead end um. And so when I look at it that way, because he was staying like years and years, I mean for years, but for a cause he didn't purportedly didn't believe in and he kept being like, you know, no, that's not it, come on say it, and she just wouldn't say anything. So I definitely see that side of it, which also gives their relationship more depth than the him as a character, more depth they think, well, this is one of those things that to me got informed a lot.

The way I look at it now has shifted because of so low right, because in that instance, you see that Han's initial impulse regarding relationships is a level of loyalty and devotion that is just like beyond and he spends all of this time just trying to figure out a way to get back to Karelia and rescue Kira, and then she kind of screws him over, and so like he is emotionally not tall enough to ride this ride in terms of like having a grown up relationship,

Like he does not have the wherewithal to really be a good potential, you know, partner for her. Um he is emotionally stunted in a lot of ways. I haven't often joked in my twenties that Han Solo ruined an entire like generation of people in terms of what they thought a relationship was. And I used to call it Han Solo syndrome because we see women all the time who you know at that time would be like I really love this guy and he seems great, and but

he doesn't. He's not really there for me. And I was like, you're going after that because this is your what you imprinted on. Do you understand that? Yeah, for sure, I mean certainly there are other characters throughout history that have been like that. He really in a big way, Like I think we can all agree that Han Solo is probably a very selfish lover. Well, you kind of the thing where he's like, he volunteered to be a general to run this mission without her knowing, so it

was like a really an act of love. Anyway, I thought about this a lot. Why did you? And there's also I'm gonna I know I do this every time, Chuck, I'm sorry. I'm like books. Um. There is a really marvelous book that I absolutely love called Last Shot, which is written by Dj older Um and it takes place in three time frames and it really examines hans development. So one is him before he ever meets Leiah. One is and when he knew Lando earlier, before all of this.

Then it's like him, uh, and Lando pulling a job. And then it's like him the age we see him, not quite the age we see him going into, like um force awakens. So at that point, Ben is still a little kid. He has not become Kylo Wren yet and it's interesting to watch and it's really beautifully written. There's also some great body horror in it for anybody

that's into that. Um Oh, I really really love that book. Uh. It's interesting to see Han Solo puzzling out what it is to be a husband and father because he just he knows he's not equipped to do it, and he doesn't know what he's doing and he's spent his whole life improvising and magically succeeding, and now he can't really do that anymore. It doesn't work in a family dynamic to be like I'm gonna do everything by the seat of my pants, because Leyo will be like, hey, don't

feed the baby that, Hey, don't don't. Oh, I have to go to work. My moth last calling, put a shirt on, like it's um and he's just like ah. And it is kind of a nice code to seeing this relationship bubble up and be part of our our psyche for all these years, to see like where that lands when they're actually together, and how really legitimately hard it is for him and how much it messes with

his head. Yeah, I mean there's something there's a difference between someone who is selfish and someone who is incapable of certain behaviors. Uh. Not to just give any person a, you know, a free pass to be selfish, but some people aren't capable, yeah, for for reasons that probably go back to things like being heartbroken early on or whatever. Yeah, And we didn't even talk about the famous improvised line you know, I know Hans response to Leia saying I

love you that was improvised. Yes, because again kers all the takes on Earth kersh give it up for the poor one out for the kurch, you know, to anyone listening, I know, like came on pretty strong in this one. Um, but if you've never looked at the behind the scenes of how they made this movie, even just images, it's amazing and I highly recommended, like the t E T s like that there's this trap doors they would come up through in the snow and it's just it's so good.

I mean, the design is great, the snow speeders, like, we got to see a lot of new cool stuff. I remember being a kid and seeing the uh, the way they took him down with the harpoons and thinking that was just so that they just used a mechanical like like you would trip someone on the playground or something, and yeah, it gets referenced in Captain America's Civil War. Yeah, yeah, now I loved that too. I loved that they found a way to deal with these huge things that were

impervious to their lasers. Were like, well, we're scrappy, we can figure this out. UM and Star tours at disney World and Disneyland. There is a hot segment where at one point you are under an ad at as it's coming down, and it honestly adds a sense of gravity. When you next watched the movie, when you're like, oh, that stuff is big, y'all like, which is very very fun. Yeah, VR,

and that's that's you. I'm scared because I'm um. I love VR, but I'm really really bad at flight games, Like I'm right into a wall within seconds every time. I understand. I will say I normally like that, but I didn't experience that for this game as of yet. I'm not very good. I'll also say that, but I'm having fun. Gina, who has never done VR and has two thumbs, who could it be? Or his initial c B I think it would make me sick. I thought

that too. The technology is definitely really proved. I'm not saying that it won't make you sick, but I do have I don't know about Squadrons because I haven't played it. I know, UM. I have been playing the the new X Lab Tales from Galaxy's Edge, and they have a setting in there that is like four people that are

prone to motion sicknal um. There's also a great thing that I discovered while doing that, which was the most zen I have maybe felt in the last twenty years UM where there's a um a moment at the end where you're in the end credits and the way it sets it up, you're kind of floating in space and the credits are going by, which is a little different than they did the credits Invader Immortal, which was their previous ex Lab Star Wars VRPS, which was like more

of a flat thing. So in this, like you literally can just sit down and it's like you're floating in a starfield, and it honestly felt so relaxing and beautiful because you can look all around you in in you know, full um three six s and it you look down and there's just stars below you, and you look up and they're just above you, and everywhere you look, you're just out in space and there just happens to be credits also rolling through space. But it's honestly, if anybody

has the opportunity, do not skip the credit sequence. Just sit down on your floor to enjoy that moment, because it's really beautiful. It's great well, ladies, this was a lot of fun, as I knew it would be. Let's just go ahead and book commit to do in all these damn movies over the next year. I mean why not? I mean who else am I going to get? Uh monthly Star Wars Rabies. So we'll knock out a Return of the Jedi sometime in like January or something that

sounds good. Yes, yes, please, all right, fantastic, so big thanks. You want to plug anything or shout out any twitters or instas, ye, Anny, this is when you do it so that people know it and we can get Mark Hamill to tweet at you. Yes, if anyone has any actions to Mark Hammell, I would very much like just it could just be hello, that's all. I don't care. What is your Twitter handle? Annie? That's how I'm trying

to help you. I'm so shy. I'm already like, oh no, I know she's blushing and the presses it is at Annie res A N N U I R E s E. You can also find me on saver the podcast s A v O R our stuff move never told you? There you go, Polly, what else up to these days? Uh? You know? Still doing stuff? You wass in the history class doing Criminalia, which is historical true crime, which is super fun. We're about to finish our season on Lady

Poisoners and move on to Stalkers. Um. There's also a cocktail segment, um where I come up with a drink that's themed to the topic of the day. That sounds fantastic. Um. You know that has been so incredibly fun to come up with cocktails. Um. It's like I didn't know that was secretly what I wanted to do with my life. I started doing it and like, why was I not always doing this? Um? Yeah. And then you can find

me on Twitter at Surliest Girl. And I also have a Star Wars podcast called Full of Fifth Amazing where it's more of this. Yeah, that sounds if you want to dive even deeper and be a next leveler. All right, Thank you, Holly, thank you Annie. Can't wait to do this again. Thanks Jack. Movie Crash is produced and written by Charles Bryant and Meel Brown, edited and engineered by Seth Nicholas Johnson, and scored by Noel Brown. Here in our home studio at Pontsty Market, Atlanta, Georgia for I

Heart Radio. For more podcasts. For my heart radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.