Hal Lublin on Raiders of the Lost Ark

I do I do? I write, produce and direct a mobile trivia show for this for for this app. And now that's right, I remember that because of this pandemic. I'm also handling the streaming it like I basically took everything on that. I'm doing it all one man, like like, uh does Al frankin weekend update segments from the half in the late eighties, where's the one man? That's satellite up link? That's me? Every day? I tell people, it's like it's like diffusing a bomb for for fifteen minutes,

five times a week. Geez, what's the app? It's called swag Bucks Live. Is it fun? I think it's fun. I mean, yeah, I'm a little biased, but you know, you go on there, you want a little cash, You're like, oh, is it? Is it? You can Okay swag Bucks, of course you can make money. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Swag Bucks is one of those uh, one of those sites where you get paid for different stuff that you're probably already

doing online somewhere. Well, that's an interesting gig. Yeah. Yeah, I've been there for I've been at the company for almost eleven years. Yeah, and now you're the only person there because you poisoned everyone else poison Yeah. I took over, you know, just slowly, bit by bit, and I was like, nope, now it's all about this app. I'm getting rid of all the stuff that makes money. I'm just gonna give

it away. I know you are a Philly guy because of your sports affiliations, but are you like from Philadelphia. I'm from actual proper. In fact, I may be extra Philadelphia because I was I was born and raised in in Northeast Philadelphia, which is a neighborhood that tried to seceed from the rest of Philadelphia I think in the seventies or sixties, really, yeah, to become what Northeast Philly. I guess they that's what they thought, or the Greater

Northeast maybe they would have called themselves. That's sort of the name of the area. But it's it is separate from what you would think of as traditional Philadelphia, like the Old City and Independence Hall and and yeah, uh yeah, all that stuff all yeah, far away from where Veteran Stadium was, which is now parking lot, right they all are. Uh. I love Philly, man, It's one of my favorite towns. In fact, Philly is the last that's the last place

I've been before COVID hit really what we're doing. I went and saw a concert there. My friend and I went and saw uh concert in d C Philly in New York um for Bonnie principally his favorite artist of mine. And we went on a little dude's trip for our birthday which was mid March, and we got home. While we were there, we were like like, yeah, we're washing our hands. This is weird that I think this might

really be something. Oh my god, it's so funny. The week so so Los Angeles closed down on March third, March nine team I think Monday March nineteen three teen, whichever that was. The week before I was supposed to travel to philadel for you. I booked two trips to Philly, one one for that for the weekend before everything shut down, and then one for two weeks after that, both coinciding with Sixers home games, because my father said for basketball,

he's had season tickets. My family had season tickets I think since ninety five or ninety six. And now that the team is worth coming home again to watch, it's sort of seeing on TV that they weren't when they were really bad, they weren't on TV. But I was supposed to go. I watched their last game, which was a home game against the Pistons. That was the night the NBA shut down. But before that, I was ready to go, and my and my father all of a sudden,

who's like the least panicky person. I was talking to him on the phonies, like maybe you shouldn't come, because that first weekend, I was just gonna come in by my by myself. He wasn't even gonna be there. My best friend was gonna come in from New York. We're gonna go together. But all of my father's events that he was traveling for got canceled, so he said, I don't know if it's safe. And thankfully that eight before I was supposed to leave, which was on a Thursday,

American Airlines was willing to at that point. They were like, all right, everybody's canceling their flights and we're not gonna charge you anything. We'll just give you a credit. But had I gone, I could have still gone. Had I gone, I would have been trapped. Well, I would have been trapped in Philadelphia for for the last almost year. My wife would have been here by herself, which would have been horrendous. It wouldn't have been probably driven home or something.

Right now, Yeah, you know, I'm I think one of the things I've discovered in the the last year is how risk averse I am. Okay, right, yeah, so no gas stations, no driving. I mean that's a hall. I've driven from Atlanta to l A a few times. Yeah, that was when I first moved out in two thousand. I drove. It took me three and a half days. Now, why did you move out for? For the entertainment industry? Yeah?

I knew I wanted to perform. I've known since I was a kid, and when I got out of college, I thought, all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna take a shot at this. I worked as an apprentice for a theater in Philadelphia, which was everything but acting, and it was that was great, Yeah, but I couldn't decide where to go after that. I thought maybe Washington, d C. I had friends from college who had gone there and they were wanted to get involved in the theater scene.

I thought about going to Chicago because I loved improvising, and that's the mecca. I wanted to go study at actual Second City. And then another one of my best friends in the world, still one of my best friends. I was talking to him on the phone. He said, come to l A and let's be movie stars. And I said okay. And then three months later I was in a car driving across the deserts of Arizona and New Mexico to get into California. Well, now, did you act in high school and stuff like that? Did you

do improv? Were you involved that early? I did? I did high school was all even from junior high and then into high school was whatever the musical was fall in spring trying out for that, and then in like ninety three or ninety four was when they started showing the British whose line is it anyway? On Comedy Central and then we all collectively, people who are outside of the Chicago area places with really strong improv communities discovered improvisation.

So I just fell in love with and I I thought, how can I do this and make this part of my life forever? What is it you love about improv? I love the ability to create something from nothing m hm and the idea that anything you put forth, nothing you put forward can be wrong in improvising. And part of what I love about that that I've learned to love more than anything is the collaborative aspect of it.

Is being there with someone else and knowing that whatever you do is going to be supported, and then you're there to support whatever they do. And I think that's a really good There's so many great life lessons through improv that you can apply even if you never perform

a day in your life. But to get to work that into performing as well, I think it's just made It's been sort of the core that the principles and and sort of the the guiding tenets of improv for things that have guided me my whole career in terms of wanting to collaborate and be a good collaborator to listen too, have ideas and be willing to explore and fail. Well, the only experience I've ever had with it improv is something that really just um, It's like this weird, dark

magic that mystifies me and thrills me. Um when it's great, like some of the some of the best fun I've ever had at a comedy event has been watching the best improv Like to me, when it's when it's hitting, it's it's there's nothing like it, um. And I've always been way too scared to try something like that. Like I can get up in front of stuff you should know listeners and perform live with Josh and I literally

don't get nervous at all anymore. But I've never been more scared in my life than when at my It's Fun Con two years ago, you and Janet and Janet Varney, Any Savage and Mark Gagliardi. I think it was just you for right, yeah, with your work Juice improv asked me to be the storyteller um, and then you would improv off of my story. And I've never been so scared in my life. I've never been so fulfilled and exhilarated afterward, and I just thank you so much for

asking me to do that. It was a really big deal and you probably didn't understand that, no, but I you were great and I'm glad that you did it, and I'm grateful. I'm grateful for that. Just to have met you and and become friends with you, I thought that,

like that was so great, but you were fantastic. Well, I wonder it's so interesting because you have the ability, like you said, to go out in front of in front of over a thousand people and and talk with with a sense I mean, you know what you're talking about. But also there's an extemporaneous part to that. Oh sure, I mean we're we're winging it the whole time, especially

pre show kind of comedy bit. But you know, they are stuff you should know listeners, and they are they want to see us, they came to see us, they love us. Um And it's the most supportive feeling that you can have as a performer up in front of the Mexican Uh Max funcan people. I you know, you know, I'm not much of a person there, I do. I'm have a guy that does tribute with Hodgeman and sort of makes side jokes to his main jokes, and uh,

I was scared out of my mind. You know when I stood up in front of those whatever three people, Well you wouldn't have known it, like I don't think. I don't think I really knew or we didn't get into it as much then as we are now. And that's I mean, it makes sense. It is different, and it's it's there are a lot of times that I've had improvising where the crowd is not there to to see me or the people who I'm with, and it's not fun. But it also you know, there's still I

don't think many audiences. I think the fear on the performer side is that the audience is all going to be crossed arms with that thought of I'm not here to see you. I wish you were done already. That's exactly how I felt it. But the truth is, most of the time, when you're in the audience, that's not what you're thinking at all. Yeah, like let's see what they do. But yeah, that performs that because you put all that pressure on yourself. You know, you know what

your desired outcome is. You know, with everything that you that you throw out there you're you're hoping that this is going to be a laugh, even if you come up with it in the moment, and then when it isn't, there's a little part of you form for at least a moment that dies inside. But then you keep but then you keep going, and and it's it's no knowing even a show where the audience comes to see you that that's going to happen. A bunch of times, just stuff.

Sometimes stuff doesn't hit and that's and that's okay, oh totally. And especially with the stuff you should know audiences is like us fucking up and telling a dumb joke or I mean, that's even better sometimes than when we're genuinely funny, because we are so self deprecating and and that's not a bit you know, we we genuinely will beat ourselves up in front of people and they think it's endearing

and funny and it's all love fest. But uh yeah, I mean I think Janet too, because Janet is someone, as you know, who uh like a lot of good things in my life and career happened because Janet has pushed me to do something that I didn't think I could do. Yeah, and that's important. Amazing, Yeah, for sure, like like having somebody to help you push your boundaries and and grow is is a big deal. And I'm glad she was the one who brought you into the work just improv right and got you where she was.

You guys, you're like, I guess, all right, whatever can you tell the story? We got to know each other that weekend. I mean we had met a couple of times, I think it uh the Chateau Marmont, hangs at various Fodgeman gatherings. Um, and I had known your work through Thrilling Adventure, our previous so did work Juice was kind of born out of that of the the improv Yeah,

or was it just always there? No, we had done it a couple of times towards the end of the original Thrilling Adventure our run, because there are enough of us in the cast that that improvised a lot of you know, Marking and Annie and I Annie and I've I've known Annie for twenty one years I went through Second City, or twenty years when I went through Second City. She was in my class with me in l A

and then Mark. She's fantastic, She's I call her She's like the T one thousand because because of the way she learns and integrates and grows, Like she'll tell you she can't do something and then and then two hours later she can do it as well as as anybody like comedically or even musically, just super talented. But that's amazing. You know. We we all came up improvising, improvising together,

Mark Evan Jackson, season improviser Craig Atkowski. You know, these are those are two of the greatest improvisers on the planet. So when we would go places like Chicago, we would we would do an improv show, and then Paul started to get more and more into it, and then he you know, he would always improvise with us as well. And Paul is one of the greatest comedic minds on the planet in my opinion. Did you guys know each other in Philly? By the way, It just occurred to me,

you're both from there. No, No, he is. The neighborhood that he is from was the neighborhood when my mother grew up, but they were too far apart in age to have known each other. And then he and I are far apart enough that we knew a couple of people in common, but no way. It would have been bizarre for us to have cross paths. The only time it might have happened is I don't know if you If you ever listened to his his Laboring under Delusions album,

he talks about jobs he's had. He talks about he talks about working at a store for those of you who are listening that don't know, called Hats in the Belfry, which was a hat store on South Street. And I remember that store. I know I was in there at least at least once or twice, so it's it's possible were the time YEA. For the listeners, this is Paula Thompkins, of course, former guest and and I agree, one of

the greatest comedy minds out there. He's great, Yeah, but I didn't meet him until until thrilling until the first thing, but I knew who he was because I was a huge Mr. Show fan, so it was he was there, and then Paget was there, who I knew from friends, so like was star struck immediately. Now it's work, juice, is it? Are you for the core for? And then it sort of depends on how many people you include or is it the big group? Generally the improv is the four of us and then also Paul and Craig

and Mark Evan Jackson. Am I forgetting someone? No? I think it's the seven of us because we're the we're the ones who generally, yeah, and we were we started doing when that show ended. We remember talking to Janet about it. At some point two We were both like, I really miss First of all, I miss everybody. We all text one another, We've stayed close, but we're not performing anymore. We all love improvising. What if we could

organize more improv shows? So then Janet and Paul got involved on the organizing side and they found us a spot that would put us sort of in residence. We're performing once a month until until last year. It still shows up on my calendar once a month when it's supposed to happen. I refused to delete it because I at some point we're gonna go back, right. Is that a painful reminder? Is it like make you feel good? It's I look at it and go, wow, that's right.

It would be happening right now. What was that three decades ago when I still pants? Yeah? Before you well, at least you didn't get stuck in Philly. That's true. It could have been worse and then had weird they had your marriage annulled because of that. Well, bad things happen in Philadelphia. I love Philly, man, I love the Sixers too. I'm I'm a Hawks fan, but like, the Sixers are always one of those teams to me that

we're just easy to like. Uh they never I mean, you know, depending on who was good or bad back in the day, they might beat the Hawks, or the Hawks might beat them, but there was it was never like a team that used to beat up honest that I had a big patriot in my heart for I felt like always like Philly, I love to iverson. I think a lot of these guys on this team now are just like some of the coolest, most fun players in the NBA. Yeah, there are a lot of likable

guys on that team. And I like the Hawks to the same thing where we may be in the same conference, but it's not like we've ever I feel like both teams weren't excellent at the same time and that kind of helps. But I think the Yeah, the Hawks are are a likable team. I like Trey Young a lot like, there's a lot of really great young talent there, and I think that they're I know this season has been a struggle, but this everything up is down and this year so I think that I think over the next

year or two, they're gonna they're gonna take off. And I love the coach. We'll see I do like the coach. Um. So you also have your podcast we got this with Mark and Howe and that's with your improv buddy, Mark Gagliardi. Um, who you guys actually joined me. I was gonna say listeners heard it, but we never release it. I don't think we were able to record it. Uh. Your Sketch Fest appearance and our weird panel where we basically just

picked around and and had fun. It was Yeah. But but Mark is great, He's got UM and I'll have Mark on here soon enough. I need to reach out to him. But he's got one of the great radio voices of all time. UM. Anyone who's ever listened to your podcast where you handle small debates like kind of fun debates a lot of times with a movie tilt. I looked at recent episodes and I know the movie

Crush fans would love it. UM, like best Disney Villa in Sidekick, Yes not Disney Villain, the Christmas Movie, Best Chris Columbus movie. Those are really fun topics. We love doing those, and I have to send you the list because you're going to come on to the show at some point. Um, well we'll pick something out movie. Yeah. The movie stuff is fun because I don't have to do any research on it at all. I always come

into it with almost no research. And Mark likes to have a dictionary or really in front of whatever the topic is because he just wants to feel informed if it's not something he knows inherently. Stuff is so easy that Chris Columbus is like, let's well, we're gonna pull up his his IMDb. Look at just the stuff he directed, and it's very clear what the answer is immediately, I think when I look at it, but it's still He's you look at it like, oh, he's had a really

good career. M intend to I don't think about it, you know, I don't think about him that much. I know I know who he is is, and I like a lot of his movies. But yeah, there are certain directors like that where you, uh, you think, well, what did they do and then you because you know the name, and then you look up and and sometimes it's like,

I mean, Chris Columbus has a vibe. But sometimes the ones that always amazed me are the ones that are these directors that just kind of like these working directors that just do these sort of anything Hollywood movies. Like they're not necessarily they don't have a style that you can call out, but they they're like, Wow, they've directed like fifteen movies you've heard of over the years, but you can't place a finger like, oh, this is definitely

a movie directed by this person. That's a that's a really bizarre that's got to be a gift and a curse because obviously they're working and they're making solid films. But on the other hand, you know what a Spielberg movie is, you know what a Harold Ramis movie is. But for this director, you know, they're the fact that they're that they kind of they're kind of anonymous. They disappear into whatever their project is. Is great for the project,

but it's ultimately maybe kind of odd for their legacy. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. What did I mean Chris Columbus, what old did he direct? Well, you got Home Alone. That's that's a big one. He didn't for Sue Harry Potter movies. Oh really, uh huh Adventures in Babysitting. Okay, he is another one in there that that is a really bizarre one. I'm looking now, Mrs

dolphire is a Chris Columbus movie. Okay, so he gave he did one of the one of the better Robin Williams movies and then one of the worst ones because he did by Centennial man. Right, he directed the screen adaptation of Rent. That's right, yes he did. It's it's weird. Yeah, it is weird. It is really weird, interesting babysit. Oh young, oh no, young Sherlock comes. He wrote that he wrote, he wrote, well, he wrote the fucking Goonies Gremlins. Ye man. Yeah,

that's quite a career. And he was supposed to direct Christmas Vacation the story I have heard John Hughes wanted him to eat he He and John Hughes had had linked up and John Hughes said, I want you to direct Christmas Vacation because he wrote it, right, because he wrote it. I think he did write it. And Chevy Chase hated him. And had him fired and brought in somebody else. I don't remember who wind up directing it,

but at the consolation prize was home alone. Oh wow, which he did not write, right, it made him very rich though, I'm well, at least set him up to be very rich. No, he didn't write it very I think John Hughes wrote that too, didn't he. I think so didn't write the first or or he co wrote it. Um, yeah, I mean that's a I can't wait to come on the show man. I mean, I love the idea. It's a Max Fun podcast, and you know, I've always supported those guys, and it's just such a quality network. And um,

how long you've been around. I mean you've got three d plus episodes. We started almost six years ago and then I think three three or four months in was when we joined Max Fun. Right, Okay, that makes sense. Well, I encourage people to go check it out. We got this with Mark and how very fun show. Your first pick. I feel kind of bad because your first pick, I think was back to the Future. My first two picks were taken. What was your second one? I'm sorry? Empire

strikes back? Oh right, yeah, we just recently did that. Paul Schneider did Back to the Future a couple of years ago, and that's kind of the I'm really loose, but kind of My only rule is not to do the same movie twice, even though I mean, I've had listeners say yeah, but you get a different perspective from someone else. I'm like, yeah, but I don't want to sit around just repeating myself, you know, like a dumb dump.

I mean, the conversation would be different, but you pivoted to a little movie called Raiders of the Lost Dark. That's right. And if you'll allow me, let me tell you a little story. How when I was ten years old, I went to school, was kind of close to being out at the end of the year, and I went and sat down at school lunch one day and my one of my very good friends, Tie Aiken, came and

sat down at the table. There was round tables, probably about eight little dudes, and he had seen a sneak preview of a movie the night before, and he was almost hyperventilating to tell us about it. And it was literally I remember it like it was yesterday. It was one of those memories that just locked in my mind.

He was talking about o my god, and there were spiders and there were snakes, and there was this big rock that rolled after him, and and he had this and he used a whip and we were like, he used a whip, Like we had never heard anything like this, and he he kind of did that kid thing I was. It was in the fourth or fifth grade where you just sort of vomit out this thing, you're so excited. And he he said what it was called. And I remember thinking, what a weird title of a movie, and

that was Raiders of the Lost Dark. And that was like the first time I heard about it. Uh, it's so you know, that is a great first way to hear about it. Mine was a little backwards. Okay. My parents took me to see the first Indiana Jones film that I saw was Temple of Doom, which I saw in the theater. I was seven years old when it

came out. So, yeah, so you're younger than me, yes, a little, not not too not too much younger than you, but young enough to I'm like a first greater younger than you enough that I would have that I would have come to to Temple of Doom first, which I absolutely loved. It's a great movie for us seven year and then my father was like, if you like that, you're gonna love Raiders of the Lost Dark, which he

had on VHS. He had, we had some dubbed copy of it, and I remember thinking every time I looked at the title before I knew what it was, that I thought it was an adult film, but not a film, No, not an adult film. But he played it for me and I absolutely loved it, except I'm definitely afraid of spiders, So that part still. I rewatched it just today just to have it a super fresh and that part I still I looked away. I know I've seen it. I

remember yep, Alfred Molina's covered in spiders. There's so many of them. It's a great gag. No, that got me too, man, tar Angela is used to scare the hell out of me, Like I'd rather have a snake wrapped around my arm than a tarantula crawling up it. Like, yeah, for sure, no question, that has a better choice. We're not. That's not gonna be the episode you have because we solved it here. We're not gonna bring market for that. We

figured it out. Tar Angela or constructor. Yeah, when tots face melts at the end when the ark is opened. That terrified me. It was really hard for me to watch for several years. How old I seven when I saw it first time. That's young. It was a little bit young, but I mean I was watching by then, I had already seen National Lamp, Pune's Vacation, so it wasn't too much. I had nothing left to learn at seven years old. I only had to be frightened of things.

And it took me a while, probably until I was maybe twelve thirteen, until until that was less frightening to me, just the sort of wore off. And then the more the more I watched it because I would watch movies all I mean in college instead of I didn't go to parties because I don't I don't drink, never have,

so I didn't go to parties. I watched movies. I rented and watched movies all the time, and I would watch That was one I had bought at that point, and I just watched it over and over again, and like, it's so greaters so clearly, it's such a perfect combination. You have Spielberg at the height of his powers, you have Lucas at the height of his powers doing what it does best, which is coming up with a story,

not directing, not writing the screenplay it. But he can sort of blue sky this story and then Spielberg can go and practically make it happen. And it's you got Harrison Ford at the height of his powers. Lawrence Kasten. Lawrence Kasten, I mean, it's yeah, it's just a dream. Everybody on it is a dream team player. Yeah. And it's paced perfectly. It's a two hour movie that feels like it's ninety minutes long. Yeah. I mean there are a lot of Uh. I mean when I was a kid,

I saw it a bunch of times. I've seen this may be the most viewed movie for me. I don't know, maybe Jaws. I would have to I'd have to see the data. But you know, I've seen this movie over twenty something times, you know, easy And I bought the novelization when I was a kid, and I read that. I played that Atari game. Uh. I don't know if you ever had that, but it was amazing, I mean, you know, for what it was at the time. Sure, um,

and they're for me. There are a lot of Like when I was watching it today, I realized how many bests there are in this movie for me personally, Like I think it's my favorite score. Ever. I think it's the best opening action sequence of a movie for me. It may be the best last shot of a movie. Yes,

maybe the best anti hero for me. Uh, maybe the best movie villain in total and sort of Bellock Like, it's really like it's got a lot of things and it's not just nostalgia like when I was, you know, I try to watch it through more studied lens when I do these, uh, and it's it holds up. Man. I mean, it's just a really fucking good quality movie. Yeah.

A lot of films that you revisit, especially from the eight I mean, as as time moves forward, films get shorter and not necessarily in terms of length, but in terms of how it how it paces. So to watch something, you know, to watch a drama now, it's paste so much quicker. But if you watch Lilies of the Field, which is a classic movie that I love, it's it's

not moving fast at all. It's very intentional. It's a lot slower, but at that time it was way faster than films that had come ten years before it or five years before it so that this and maybe because it benefits from from basically being a tribute to the cereals of the thirties and forties, it keeps that pacing. It's just a series of cliffhangers and it and it takes you through. It's really never it never slows down, even if there are the lulls just help you catch

your breath and give you a little bit more character development. Absolutely, I was thinking about that today, the pacing of it in the you know, the few quiet scenes that stand out as obviously after the big um, the big opening sequence.

You have his stuff at the college, which I remember being freaked out when I was a kid, and still today when I see Indiana Jones out of his his costume and his suit with his glasses and then seeing like I freaked out today seeing his house and seeing inside his house, and I was like, I forgot that we saw Indiana Jones house in New Jersey, you know, I mean he was supposedly the characters from Princeton, and

the college is Marshall College somewhere in New Jersey. And I was like, Harrison Ford, I mean, Indiana Jones, fucking he lives in New Jersey. It's so weird. It's in Indiana Jones, It's those, It's those three. Those are the that's only Trinity of Jersey Man. I was really studying his house to like the interior, Like I was like, oh my god, I've never really like freeze framed have been like what what's on his walls? Like what kind of candles does he have? And it's very sort of

playing and stuff. But it's just so weird because as a kid and still today, he exists as this character who only travels to the world and does this stuff.

So when you see him out of that element, it's always a little jarring, but necessary, like you said, for the plot to give a little bit, you know, there's just a couple of lines here and there, like you know your you sound like my mother, and like these little tiny throwaway lines that just sort of hint like, uh, you know, God or whatever, if you believe in that sort of thing, Like these little things that hint is his His His is probably atheism, I guess, yeah, or

his skepticism. Everything is sorted in in science, and he never believes the myth even even I mean, he can't believe the myth in Temple of Doom because it comes canonically it's earlier. What is it like three years before or two years before or no, five years like thirty six, thirty six something like that. Is I think Raiders is thirty six. Then then this is that I think thirty three might be Temple Doom. It's definitely takes place, definitely place before, so he shouldn't be leave in the San

Carra Stones either. And he's now thinking about it that the fortune and glory version of of Indied that we get in that movie has been tamed down by time we get to Raiders, and it becomes much more of a man of silence. So maybe there was are a man of science rather and and education and just preservation. So maybe it's I've never thought about this before, that that film as a prequel shows us more about who he was than than who than how he progresses. Yeah,

I don't think I even remember that taking place before. Yeah, I haven't seen it in a long time, but yeah, you're totally right. Uh, very interesting. Um the other movie, you know, there are other couple of um kind of scenes to let you catch your breath that ended up being really impactful. One of course, when he goes to um with Sala to see the guy who basically lays it all out there as far as the translating them what's on the headpiece? Um, So that's a really important scene.

And then obviously the one on the boat, which is one of my favorite scenes in the movie, when he and Karen Allen finally had their kind of quiet time. There's so much humor and romance and sweetness in that scene. I just I love it every single time. Yes, and I love that they're always until the end slightly out of sync. So every time you think it's going to

take turn a certain way, they managed to. They managed to defy your expectations or up set your expectations in the best possible way, because you don't but the moment where where they could have their huge love scene and he falls asleep in that in that boat scene, that is it's such a great subversion because in almost any movie you would see, you would expect them to be together. That's like the mid action movie thing is that two

girls get together. Even Shark Attack three Megaladon, which has the greatest movie and all the greatest line in all of film, has a that was Oh it's yeah, this is before This is right before the big Action Secrets where they go to to blow up the giant dinosaur. It's John Barrowman who's the lead, and he says to the female lead, who's played by the by an actress who is in Shark Attack one is a different character. He says, I should uh, I should go home and

get some sleep, but I'm feeling kind of wired. What do you say? I take you home and eat your pussy for you? And then it's smash cuts to the two of them making out in a shower. Wow. Yeah, that's amazing. It's so it's just you don't excuse I've seen it so many times they've shared that clip with people just because nobody believes that could actually be true. Wrote that and didn't not refuse to say it. I mean, come on, how does John Barrowman not just get asked

about that? At every single con he goes to the pack forget torch Wood, tell me about Megalodon. Did you did you argue about that line? Was it your idea? Yeah? I wanted to know this story there. Oh that's funny. Um, but what were you saying? I think I cut you off to get that line. Oh, it's that's usually where they have the addie, that's that's where the love scene happens.

But for this it gets cut off. They're constantly cut off every time you think they're gonna be safe and together, when they get separated from one another, when he when he goes to when he discovers her the at the dig site and instead of rescuing her, has to leave her there because he's going to get caught. Is is

a really great subversion, but also makes logical. There's there's so much logic in that film, but both in what he does and in every the fight around the giant plane just this So it's just this great like Rube Goldberg machine of thing after thing going wrong but logically until it and just keeps turning up the heat on whatever is happening in the moment. Yeah, let's talk about that scene, because I mean, I've always loved that scene.

It's one of the great sequences. But watching it today as like an adult who fully understands movie making and screenwriting, ufully because I can't do either well, but um, everything it's just like this amazing little Rube Goldberg machine that works so perfectly together and everything that happens it means something for the next thing, like her her pulling the blocks from the tires that allows the plane to start spinning.

Her knocking him out with those blocks is what makes him fall on the controls to make the plane start moving. To begin with, um, they set up the wrench in the propeller, you know, for what's gonna happen later, Like every single little thing that happens has a logical, Like you said, outcome, it's not just it was just so expertly planned. I think to sit around and say, Okay, she takes the block out, she hits the guy with

the block, he falls over. Then she has to get in to the plane to try and pull him off, and she gets trapped inside. And then that allows her to use the bubble gun to shoot the all the approaching troops to keep it a one on one fight. But at the same time, the plane is spinning and it knocks over the gas tank. Well that's right, because the plane is spinning from the blocks from the guy. Now you have the the ticking clock is at it.

I mean, it was a fun scene anyway, and then all of a sudden you've got the element of the gas and the fire and and it's just like it's so expertly done, Like you've got this great tent scene anyway, and halfway through it you add a ticking clock. It's so good. It's so great. And I never really thought about what a weird looking plane that was literally until today. Yeah, wait a minute, what a what was that? And I

looked it up and you probably know this. It was Spielberg's attempt to show this weird experimental plane that the Nazis were developing. And it didn't have a tailpiece, it had these weird bent bird wings. It's like my twenties something twenty something. Viewing, I was like, what the hell kind of plane is that? Isn't it funny how your memory? My memory of it was that it was a normal sort of bomber plane. I think so. And then when I saw it, I was like, did they is this

a special edition that I'm watching? Did they change? But it makes perfect sense. That is like a very nice little element. It's the brilliance of Spielberg. It's those little he He wanted those little bits of detail in there that that even though that plane didn't exist, it makes sense that they would have the group of of Nazis going after the Ark of the Covenant would have all experimental stuff. Yeah, very very cool. Um, like you build a plane if you're Spielberg, I guess instead of getting

an old plane. Um. And I was just reminded of how much this movie thrilled me, just beyond belief as a kid. I mean, I love Star Wars, I still do love DT loved all these movies from my childhood, but there was something about Indiana Jones and this adventure that would travel the world and go in jungles and deserts, Like maybe it was a little more grounded or something, but it got me way more than Star Wars ever. Did I think that's said? I think you hit the

nail on the head. Like Star Wars and Eat are both great, and it's fun to to play in those worlds, like to pretend or imagine what it would be like to be in those worlds. But that's all you can do. It's it's a fantasy. We're not in a galaxy far far away a long time ago. We're there is no alien getting separated from the rest of his alien friends. That Jones is a teacher. Indiana Jones is a teacher and an archaeologist and and the weapons that he had were his brains and his fists and a whip and

sometimes a gun. It's easy to take that whip for granted now, but we had never seen a whip like that and use like that. I mean it was it was. I know it had been used in cereals and stuff, and like they full o fully borrowed a lot of this stuff from that world, to be fair. But like as far as me and a kid, i'd i'd never

seen someone use a bull whip like that. I remember getting my parents went to Texas for for business that I hadn't They brought me back like a little whip, like one of those whips you get at the airport, and I had, Yeah, didn't you think, didn't you think at that age, like all right, I'm i gotta be like if I practice with this for a week, I'll be able to swing from a tree with it. Yeah. Well, and it was they were like four ft long. You know, I don't you can make a cracking sound with it? Yeah?

Maybe if you're lucky, and the little red string on the end would break immediately and be gone. You'd immediately fray it. And you're like why does my whips say how on the handle? I don't think like a wood burning kit the airport. It's yeah, it's like the little license plates. Oh I got a Marjorie whip and even get my name. It wasn't even on the rack. Marjorie better than nothing, I guess. Um. There are also so many great character moments, like Harrison Ford just uh and

I know it's his um. I then we had to reckon with Han solo over the years and came back to love him. But he always loved Indiana Jones. And they're just, you know, so many little moments to give it, give it flavor, um, Like the the little smile he gives when at the beginning when he jumps after Alfred Molina ditches him, you know, without the whip, and he jumps over and he grabs that vine and he gives that brief little grin like, oh, thank god, I've got

this vine before it starts pulling out. Just those little moments, man, are so priceless. He manages to pull off a lot of cartoony reactions as Indiana Jones, but they're so worked into the character and they're so sere, so sincere with it that it that it absolutely were. I mean, it's it's crazy to think of how close we were to Tom Selleck as Indiana Jones. If CBS had said it's fine,

go ahead and make this movie, then who knows. I mean, Tom Selock's a fine actor, but I can't imagine just all the little things that Harrison Ford brings to it. I think he's a really underrated actor because of the movies that he's best known for. He's so good he

doesn't even need to do something. And I think he's very good in regarding Henry, Like, he's got a lot of great movies that are not Indiana Jones or Han Solo, But even in those things, he's so good and so committed to it, to everything that he does, and that brings that he brings these like real little moments. The way that Indiana Jones smirks is different than the way

Han Solo smirks. There's a different meaning behind it. They're not the entire after at all, and they occupy a similar space sort of like an adventure maybe a little scoundrel e yeah, kind of anti hero scoundrels, but they're not the same guy at all. I totally agree and there's I think what those things do in this movie too, is there's like there's never a doubt in your mind that Indiana Jones is like a real guy. Um he and I remember being a kid. Like the way he

runs looks like he's in pain, you know. He I think he was in his late thirties when he made it. He didn't run like a twenty two year old kid, you know. He ran like like my dad ran, and he wore baggy pants, and he was in pain a lot, and and uh like he was a real, living, breathing guy. He wasn't. And I loved the Mission Impossible movies and

stuff like that. But when you get to that point, like Ethan Hunt is just he might as well be a superhero at that point, you know, yeah, there's no it doesn't feel like there's a consequence to almost falling off the Birch Khalifa or fighting in a sandstorm. Yeah he's fine. No, there are no actual consequences outside of the moment of peril. Whereas this guy is banged up. He you know, he's shot in the arm. By by time he gets to the end, he's not gonna go

fight them, So he grabs a Bazuka. Even the way that he tries to hold them hostage is the farthest away. And that is such a great scene that I've forgotten because it tells you so much about his character that the most important thing to him in the world is the preservation of history and culture, because that's that's why he's an archaeologist, not so you can globe try to find things. He doesn't do it for the adventure. He does it because he wants to preserve He wants the

ark to be studied and put in a museum. And they hit and yeah, that last crusade thing of it belongs in a museum. They they hit the nail. They hit the nail on the head there. But that's what he's about from a very young age, that's what he's been about. That, that's his that's his passion. More important than Marryan. He was willing to let her to you know, he was willing. He wasn't willing to do what he needed to do to save her because his bluff got called.

There's no way he was going to shoot fired that rocket at the ark and destroy it. Yeah, and you know, there he and Marian's relationship came full circle. Throughout the you know, even through that last really bad movie, I think in a nice way, but we should probably mention, you know, all this stuff on the internet when people started calling attention to the fact that, like, wait a minute, what happened before she says she was a child? He says,

you knew what you were doing. She says, you knew it, you knew it was wrong. And people did math and they were like, was she fifteen? Was she younger? And you know, it got a little creepy there for a minute. Uh. I think there were some leaked notes from the original meetings where George Lucas said, like, what if she was like eleven, that would be pretty wild, but like, you know, that would really raise some steaks, and I think they

were like, well, let's make her more like fifteen. That's still you know, grant, it's in the thirties, so it's a little bit of a different thing, but it's still a kid, you know. I get in my mind, I had always thought like maybe she was seventeen eighteen and he was a little bit younger, but I think she was supposed to be fifteen, he was supposed to be. Yeah, that's that's that's a pretty creepy. It's pretty creepy, but you know it's something that we should mention. I don't

want to just like skate by it. For sure. It doesn't like Tank the movie for me. They ended up like getting married and having they got married right, and that the indication in the last movie, and I think they I think you get to see their wedding. I think they emerged from the church, don't they. Maybe, Man, I'd literally wipe that movie from my memory being disappointing.

You know, we're talking about how great the fight around the plane is and then the chase through the marketplace where he's where he shoots the swordsman because Harrison Ford had the trots like all that, all that stuff was so great, and then when you look at the central action piece in the jungle in the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, which is I've only watched it once, but I remember hearing the theater watching it going this is

this is about everything mistakenly going right. That he lands where the ants, where the bugs are in a circle so they don't hurt, Like everything just feels too fortunate, where if it was, everything has to get has to get worse and worse and worse, and then he he either fag I mean Temple of Doom. He didn't really win the fight against the guy. The guy's the guy's turbing gets caught in the in the conveyor belt. That's

why he wins that fight. So he it's it's luck he chooses the wrong way when they're in the mind cart it in Crystal Skull. It feels like you would have chosen the right way on the track and they would have gotten out. Yeah, you're totally right. I mean, there was so much about that movie that just landed wrong. Um. I think they're making another one, which already really nervous about. But I mean, if they can go out on top, that would be great. Um, because the first three we're

really really good movies. You know, absolutely do you are you? Are you a Crusade over Temple of Noon Guy or Temple Do you like them? In order? You know? I kind of always thought I was Crusade over Temple of Doom, But the more I've seen Temple of Doom as an adult, the more I really think it's a pretty fun, like just total action. Like I think there's a little more substance to Crusade just with the relationship with his father and stuff. But I don't know, I think they're all

pretty great. What about you? I do I also agree that they're all pretty great. I would give Crusade. I would put Crusade above Temple of Doom just because I think it has a lot of the same fun maybe a little bit the jokes are a little bit better. Yeah, And and Sean Connery is such a great he was. That was such a great addition, every detail, the fact that they both slept with with Ellison, with Elsa Schneider. Yeah, all of the Grail stuff is great. It feels like

it went back close. And you have Sala and and a weird version of Brody where he becomes a fool because he's not a fool at all in Raiders. No, No, that's right, He's right. He's almost Indiana. It seems like Kean Indie are basically partners. Yeah. I feel like they were just like, maybe we can get some laughs out of him. And they watched Trading Places in between Raiders. Alaska said They're like, oh, he's great at comedy. That's funny.

Another couple of favorite character moments for for Indiana where when and they're both in the chase scene with the trucks, which is, you know, one of the I mean, it's like every action sequence in this movie is like out doing the one before it. But um, the little look he gives when he bumps the motorcycle in the sidecar off the road, it's just a little bitty the little

that little smirk. And then the one where the he's fighting, Uh, they sort of regained control of the truck together and and kind of give each other that knowing like kind of laugh and smile before he you know, kicks his ass again. Moments in this movie. Yeah. I also I really like the scene in the Marion's Barn Nepal where where he's struggling with the with the hired good with the gun and Tod says, cares on both and then they both shoot the gunman who's gonna shoot them, and

then assume fighting. It's such a great like again smart smart moment and and not only character moment for Indie but also for the thug like he of course he wouldn't continue fighting. He doesn't want to die. Well, I kind of wondered today for the first time, I was like, why didn't the guy just leave right then. Yeah, Like, after he knows he's been sold out, He's like, why

is he continuing this charade? I would imagine if I had to, if I had to stretched it out of me, because he's afraid Indie's gonna shoot him if he tries to go. Maybe. Yeah, that's a good point. That also that also has the great when he's down at the bargaining choked out and he just goes whiskey. Yes, these iconic moments. Yeah, it's just full of them. Uh. So have you seen the I didn't hear about this until

recently when a movie crusher pointing it out. The big Bang theory thing about that he's inconsequential to the plot. Did you hear any of that? No, it was from that show, which I never watched. But the scene in the show as they're watching the movie and one of

the characters shows it too, uh, Blossom, what's myambi alic? Yes, yes, and she had never seen it and afterwards she was like, oh, that was good, but like he was he was irrelevant to the plot, and he was like what she was like, everything would have happened the same way if he had

never been there. And then it became this thing on the internet that I read about today where technically, if you look at all the things that happened, they would have gone to Marian's anyway, they would have gotten the medallion anyway, and then they would not have burned the hand, and they would have known the staff was at the wrong height, and they would have dug the arc and found the arc, and they would have opened the arc and died. H And I kind of never really thought

about it. It's an interesting thought exercise. At least, it is an interesting thought exercise. I wonder how they get to because the only reason they figure out the staff is the wrong height is when they go to see the old man right, because they have the actual headpiece, but it just has the one side burned into his hand, and it was the flip side that told them the rest of the story about the staff height and a

deleted scene. As it turns out, that is also where Indiana learns not to look or touch look at or touch the arc, but they cut that part out, Oh right. It is kind of bizarre that he just sort of knows that although he obviously has that giant book in the beginning that has the locks on it, is that a by I think that's the Bible. Hell no, oh yeah, that's right. You all know in the Bible we had a picture book of the of the art destroy People

of Lightning. That's Roman. I don't think it was the Bible. That's a great scene though, man, I love that scene. I mean that scene kind of breaks a lot of the rules of screenwriting and that they just sort of lay it all out there. But it's just done in such a deft way. I think it doesn't even matter. Yeah, and again, that's that's the serial, right is we're gonna give you all the information and then we're just gonna get to a series of cliffhanger, cliffhanger, cliffhanger, cliffhanger, and

then they do that and that. But it's such a refined version. I think the one they borrowed the most from is called Perils of Pauline, which is notable because it had a woman in the lead, which was kind of unheard of as for from an action hero standpoint in the in the thirties, I think, which is when it run went round. But it was great and it

has that seem excitement you can see. You can definitely see how much they lifted specifically from from those cereals, but it's so much more refined because of everybody involved. You have arguably the best composer in the history of film working with arguably one of the best directors ever, along with arguably one of the best storytellers of all time and one of the best screenwriters. I mean, it's just again, it's it's the most refined version that that

you can get with. It has everything. It also occurred to me today that the whole message of Um his skepticism slash atheism, because there's a few lines he says about God if you believe in that sort of thing. He talks about, you know, the magic in the hocus Pocus um, and then he says something about you know what is that the power of God or whatever? Um, But they never like he witnesses that firsthand later in

the movie, and it's no or I don't know. They just sort of leave it there, which I think is the thing to do rather than have him exploring that or something. I don't think anyone wants to see that. Yeah, the story is not about his journey to faith, right right, But it could it could have been with the wrong director. Absolutely could have been that's a Chris Columbus thing to do, and that guy would have pulled it off, would have

been real modeling about it. But yeah, it's ultimately about the adventure, and he's more concerned with the preservation of history than than anything. I mean, it blinds him to all the amazing things that are that are possible, even going to like he saw the ark of the Covenant and even though his eyes were closed, when he opened his eyes, everyone was gone. He heard them all screaming, and then when they opened their eyes, they were all gone, not a trace of anything, no cameras, not the genera.

Everything got taken into the arc. And yet he has trouble wrapping his head around the idea that the Holy Grail might be real. Right, that is I mean, it's just because it's all about just the like, this is a historical artifact and I didn't see it, so anything could have happened, right, And somehow he and Karen Allen are able to load that onto I guess the submarine and drive that back. I was like, oh, this was everybody in that secret island base, right, that had to

be everybody. How they got out of there, But they just get out of there, Washington, d C. Well, that's a great thing about these movies in those serials is you don't you know, if you get lost in those details and you're not there to have a good time. Exactly exactly. Remember I went to see um oh god, what was Hard Target? Remember Hard Target? No vis vantam

that was. That was John Wu's first American film, right, okay, And he does all sorts of crazy shit in that movie, including standing on a on a running motorcycle firing a gun at people. Accurately by that part when when he goes he's and he's from He's from the the Bayous of Louisiana, which is why he has the accent in this film. And he goes to visit the family farm and he goes into a shed and opens a crate. And keep in mind that there are people in this

movie theater. I'm staying there with my dad. There's two guys in front of us. They've said nothing through everything else that's happened, including the time all the doves doves appear for no reason. But he opens a crate. Exactly, He opens this crate that's had his shotgun in it for years, and he pulls out it perfectly clean shotgun and from in front of us were here, Yeah, like that shotgun would be clean, like oh we oh do we cross the line? The detail? Yeah, that was it.

Oh I can't suspend my disbelief anymore now, a clean shotgun? Iculous? That's pretty funny. Was this in Philly? Yeah, of course, there's no way that shotgun would be so clean? Is that the accident? I've always kind of wondered about it about Yeah, that's that's the accent. It's very similar to Baltimore as a lot of as say, hone, it's it's water bagels attitude, my mom's his eggs that's weird, and cheese from the Deep South. It's there. You know, there's

some similarities in there. Yeah. I think there's a little bit, just a little bit that's really funny. Um So, another thing that hit me today, like now that I'm an adult and I understand how films are made, it is crazy the digging sequences and how many people they had there and how many extras. I mean, it was like Lawrence of Arabia level. Uh, hundreds and hundreds of people fully costumed and wardrobe and these huge wide shots and like you know today, of course it would be so

cged out. Um those snakes, Like I can't imagine the well of Soul seen today and how bad that would look with phony phony CG snakes everywhere doing weird things. Yeah, it's great that that movie was made when it was because the digital you know you saw with Crystal Skull in two thousand eight. I guess that came out that the digital stuff just didn't. It just doesn't hit the same the practical stuff hits. It's better because it's not that kind of movie, so you and you're used to

seeing all practical stuff. And there's a lot of lens flare every time that art gets open or something evolved the arc like it's just like, where's that glowing like coming from God? I guess right? Or when the spirits come out and and and you see them when when it's opened on the altar. But as weird as it looks, because it's that Ghostbuster like kind of animated in but it also fits the movie. It doesn't have to be. I was watching. When I was watching it, I was

thinking they could have cleaned us up. He could have he could have done a different version, and lord knows, I would bet that George Lucas wouldn't mind going in like we had better effects, right. I think it holds up pretty well though, man, I mean that stuff at the end is a little corny looking, but like you said, it works for the movie. But the scene where they're digging and that storm is coming in. But right when they get to the well of souls, I think it

looks pretty good. I think it holds up. It would look a lot better than I mean, less is more. It would be so overdone today, I think with the effects. Uh. And and you know you also get that the best shot in the movie that iconic, like for the next for the rest of this episode, I could just talk about the sunset silhouette when he puts on the fedora and that shot, it's just it's iconic. It's Hollywood history

right there. That's so amazing. That's so good. And you know what else is kind of an unsung hero the movie is the Matt paintings. Yeah, there are a lot of great Matt paintings in the movie, and you can see them. You know, if you've watched a bunch of

movies and that you're you're kind of looking for it. Yeah, even if you're not, if you just have come to be able to to recognize those things, just to just to see, like, oh, that's a really seamless Matt painting, which I probably don't say what they say if you seen the Matt painting and raid. So it's divine. It is though it's so perfect. I remember being a kid

too and thinking how like how nothing phased him. But it wasn't like again in an Ethan Hunt way, like he was never like I've got this totally under control. He was just like, this is what I do and I have to do it. Um Like he's always moving forward and not second guessing himself even when the decisions lead him down the wrong pathway, Yeah, and what and he's he is afraid for his life. There is fear there.

I mean even that first of all, the whole the whole opening up to the real that entire opening not only established his character, is really a setup for the punch line of the one thing he's afraid of his snakes is a is a harmless snake in the front seat of his escape vehicle. It's such a great that's such a great character detail. And almost everything they set up at some point comes back. They set up so many things in that sequence to come back, including the snake.

So I did it have to be snakes? When he has to go down into the well of souls, and the idea that Bellock is going to take always takes things from him. It is always somehow one step ahead him of him and out thinking him that comes. That comes up several times, even with Marion later on when she tries to escape from the tent by drinking him under the table you know well, which is also a

payoff from the previous scene with her drinking abilities. Yes, in the novelization, Bellock, I think they knew each other in college, and he like stole his college term paper, idea or something, his dissertation. It was, it was it goes that far back, and another weird. I only remember a few things about the novelization. But another one was at the beginning when he says, uh or not at the beginning when he sees the well of souls full of snakes and his snakes, why did it have to

be snakes? And that was it? And then then I don't know if they shot it and cut it. But in the novelization, he was like, I could have you know, I can deal with spiders and I could deal with this, and he like named a bunch of stuff that he's not afraid of, and it was just it was too much, you know, Like all you need is that perfect line. Yeah, exactly, it's a hat on a hat otherwise. But I guess the novelization is written after the movie, so that wouldn't

make sense. You know. The the only movie novelization of ever read was was the one for Batman, which I read before the movie came out? Did you do you ever read that one? No, That's the only novelization I've read was Raiders. There's a there's a sequence in that novelization where where Bruce Wayne has to go chase the Joker, but he doesn't have his Batman outfit, so he puts on like a ski mask and then rides a horse.

He chases he's the chases the Joker chases some criminals on horse, and I was so disappointed that that somehow didn't make it into the movie. I was like, what is he getting on the horse? He just stopped that bullet with the trays. He's gonna do it now. It feels like it comes now. That would be kind of cool. Well, but in costume, it'd be cool to see Batman on

a horse. I think, yeah, that wasn't there a bad horse in the comics there in the sixties and the fifties and sixties, that silver age, there was a bad horse Bata ducks. Yeah, bad everything. Uh So, let me ask you a question. In the beginning with the idol, does he screw up by taking that sand out thinking he was making it the right weight or is that reading too much in it? And I think, I here's

what I think in that. I think if he had left the sand in the bag, it would have it would have sunk faster because it would have been too heavy. Oh okay, I guess so, so he didn't take enough out maybe maybe, or he took a little bit too much out so it was too light. And that was why they're like, oh this, wait's not right now, We're gonna sink. If you put something heavy on it, it it should sink right away. Right. I love how you just said they and they were who's who's that? Who's operating

this old scheme? The imagineers that that built that built a series of traps. They're like, oh, what if we had something with sunlight, that would be good. And then you know they'll step on on the squares and that'll trigger the darts. But for the weight, what happens if it's too light? And then they that was a whole day. Yeah, And Spielberg came in and said, it doesn't matter. The thing's gonna lower no matter what. I don't care. Um. I wonder where that market that I was wondering today

with the Ark of the Covenant prop ended up. It's in a It's in a movie prop house and unmarked crate with a munch of other mark crates that have other movie props and very nice. That could be the only place I just thought about something with just the

conception of it and planning of it. You ever seemed the documentary about the making of The Phantom Menace that was on the initial DVD release, it's like two and a half hours long, and it's kind of a Hearts of Darkness in some parts because you can tell in the editing that that they've made mistakes and that they knew that it wasn't as good as they thought it

could be. But there's a point where Spielberg comes to visit and Lucas is giving him a tour and they're looking at the Battle of Nebou like a model rendering of it, and and Georgia is like, you know, and all these people are gonna come on and fight, and then uh, Spielberg responses warm peace, literally warm peace. And then they go back and forth for for too long, saying it's gonna be great, It's gonna be great, it's

gonna be great. Yeah, it's gonna be great, but back and forth like it was a wonder shows and segment like back like just so long, too much, Like if they hadn't had to be a work, they might still be there to this day. Award, Oh man, that's funny. And now I only want to hear a podcast with you as Lucas and Spielberg, just like over lunch or something, talking about their soup. It's literally read to it. Oh man,

it's so good. Um, you know you're talking about the pace of the movie, which really like it kind of really picks up halfway through the film. Halfway through the film they find the Ark of the Covenant, which is kind of weird, like you would think. I mean, I don't know if it quite qualifies as mcguffin. Maybe it does Um does it you think? I think so, Yeah,

it's the thing everybody's chasing after. But like it's so early, it's like revealed so early, and they've got it, and that's like when that the action it's so relentless from that point forward. It's really the only downtime you have

is the boat scene, you know, the love scene. Um, but every I mean the he really puts his foot the gas in the second half and third act of that movie in such a way that it's just it's, you know, there's an exhilaration, like this is a movie that when they have screenings, people are like standing up and cheering still with some of these sequences that they've seen dozens of times. Yeah, you know, it's it shifts.

It's the it's a treasure hunting movie until they find the treasure, and then it becomes a cartoon sequence of I'm running with the football and then you stiff arm me, and then you grab the football and run the other way, and then I grab it and go this way. So they're still fighting over it, and we don't know. I don't think we find out until way later, until we're at the base that he's that Bellocks intending to open it and film it because the German guys like, I

don't want to grow this Jewish thing. And he's like, oh, you want to just take it to Berlin and open it up and it's empty and see what sort of tested out again a logical way to manipulate the Nazis into agreeing to all right, we're gonna film this and send it. And not only in that it logically not only does that give give Hitler proof, but it gives them propaganda because they have it filmed. That's right. Yeah, I never really thought about that, and that that is

a very key line too. They say that he was he wanted to test it out first, give it a test run before he brought it to Hitler. Yeah, which also and see what it can do. Well a lot for this great ending and this sort of kind of you know, it became a full on horror movie there in the last few minutes. And um and it also like people talk about inglorious bastards being this like you know, one of this this great revisionist history Jewish revenge film.

Now there was an actual Jewish director that made that. He got to melt and blow up the heads of Nazis as as someone uh as as a Jew myself watching it, I I really indulged in that this time, in that like, oh, it's a it's a real feat to kill this many characters at once and not feel bad, Like you're so glad to see every single person die. So when when Bellock fires the lightning or or his energy out of his eyes, and it's yeah, he kills

all those people, then his head explodes. Meanwhile, the two may Nazis, their faces have melted and they're all and even before that, they were all terror. So they don't they get no moment of peace before their death. It's just terror, terror, terror, suffering, suffering, suffering death, And you're like, oh, good, that's fewer Nazis. I'm so glad, so happy to see

it's that's definitely a running thing for Spielberg. I also think that, uh, I also like Includius Passard's as a piece of of Jewish revenge porn, but I agree that Spielberg doing it has a little bit more weight behind it. Was Yeah, I didn't remember that Belak's head exploded until today. I kind of just remembering everyone melting because that's such an iconic thing. When tote melts and the other guy melts, but he full on scanners head explosion. Yeah, they don't.

They don't shy away from the blood now in the movie at all, even when when Indie gets shot in the arm during the during the truck chase, splatters all over the windshield. Yeah. That fucking guy I remember in the theater when I was a kid, like that guy is actually kind of getting the best of him. He was like, he can't. This blonde german like no name German is not going to get him. And then uh, I distinctly remember being a ten years old and when

he finally goes under the truck, losing my mind. I had never seen a stunt like that. It didn't occur to me as a ten year old, like when you look closely, the truck's going like, you know, nine miles an hour, but like that that sequence blew my mind. When he goes under the truck and then is dragged behind it with the whip and then gets back and does the same thing to that guy. It's just like I remember, I felt like my head was exploding. It's so good, it's so amazing. And that was the stunt

guy that was his idea. Oh was it that he wanted to do? He's like, what can I do this? Yes, I watched I watched a little special on the stunts of Indiana Jones after I watched the movie, and that was one of the things that Spielberg said. He was like, that was the stunt guy's idea. He gave us that whole sequence, which which is amazing, Like they can build build around it. Yeah, I mean that whole chascene was

just from from start to finish, is just amazing. He starts out on a horse, which is so cool to see him when he rides through all those people, like you know, sucking five thousand people and they're all cheering him on, and uh, you know, everyone's always kind of on his side in general, unless they have been co opted by the Nazis. Like he pulls he pulls the truck in and somehow those people know like parking this garage and then we're gonna immediately cover for you as

if it was pre planned. Like, don't ask any questions, movie goer, This is just a great sequence. It feels like a sala. That's something solid did who we haven't even talked about this whole time. Yeah, let's talk about Sala. Oh wait, before we talk about Sala. In that scene when when he hides in the thing, I never noticed this until day and the Nazi car pulls up and they come up in there like offering the melons in the car, and the one not seen the back gets

mad and throws the melon. You hear a dog yelp. Yes, I never noticed that today until today. He throws the melon out. You hear. It's almost like a Wilhelm scream level like get like audio gag. It's the Wilheul scream for dogs. It really is. I mean they I wish they had had that both in there. You know, the Wilhelm scream scream is chev Willy, right, I mean I knew that at one point. Stuff you should know to get the kind of a short thing on it. Yeah,

that's crazy. At it's such a great such a great screen. I think he used it a few I think it's used at least three or four times in Raiders. In Raiders, I didn't pick it out. It's always very subtle. There's one in the car sequence, for sure, there is. Yeah, it's always such a nice little thing. That's beautiful, you know. Yeah, it's very things about movies in movie history is that this this like long running joke that people throw in there. It's just it makes me smile every time. Yes, it's

a high five to the audience. Totally. Um yeah, let's talk Soloh. I mean, one of the great characters. One of my favorite parts of is Uh that always gets me is how happy he is when he gets a little kiss from Karen al and he walks away singing that song. It's just so great. His his Gilbert and Sullivan, which they paid off because before I think it was when they were digging that he was he was saying it. He sings it at another point, and he really likes

one of those Indiana Jones. I don't. I don't agree with the with the the idea that the movie would be the exact same without him, But I do think that he would not be successful without everybody around him, because he relies a lot on luck almost every major battle except for what he shoots the swordsman, I mean, even the plain thing. The only reason the guy, the only reason he wins the fight is the guy doesn't notice the propeller is coming towards him until it's too late.

So Yeah, the other one loses. Sali saves him multiple times, including in the bar when he's drunk, by sending all his kids in. Sends his kids in to surround him bad dates. Yes, of course. So he's such a competent, he's he's a good friend, a loyal friend, and and really really competent. It's important that you realize that Indiana Jones has a network of people that really care about him, and that that's what helps That's what helps him survive. Salves.

Salves the only reason that he's even able to find that, you know, able to find an access the well of souls. Yeah, what's in it for him? I never really thought about that. What a solid get out of this? Does he get a little piece of the action? Ultimately? I don't know. I don't know if there's a piece of the action for him to get, because well, I guess there is money. There was a money, Uh there was. I would assume there's I was. I would assume there's some money for it.

But also they obviously have a long history together. If he's a digger, Indiana Jones is an archaeologist, like they know, the first time he comes to MS for information on what's happening? Yeah, I don't remember. Was he in Young Indiana Jones? Why do I feel? I mean I saw that. I only watched the so in Harrison Ford was in it, and I fast forwarded it to the part where he was at it. I taped it and then watched it later. Really, I just wanted to see I just wanted to see

Harrison Ford. I just want to see bearded Indie uh show. And for some reason, I'm remembering a young Salo like they had always been friends or something. But I might be dreaming that up. That would make sense. I mean, Sali seems like somebody who would have been educated elsewhere, so their paths could have crossed in in any number

of ways. But there's beyond, obviously beyond a personal professional relationship there because of the care with which sale Hands always says, this is these aren't my friends, this is my family. Yeah, so I'm gonna know if anything happens that in ASPS very dangerous. I love that part, very dangerous, like he knows that he's very scared already. Yeah. This is also a movie too, like kind of with the stormtrooper bonking his head like the plexiglass that you can

see in the Cobra scene. It's it's great. It's like I think that adds to the legend of these movies. You know, a little goof here and there is fun and you don't know. You wouldn't know if you if you hadn't been informed that it happened after the fact. I don't think it's something that you you get. So it's to the film's credit into Star Wars too, that it's it's a minor mess up. Yeah, it's easy to miss because you're so invested in everything else that's happening.

I never saw the Star Wars when the first twenty times I saw it, I mean until the Internet showed me the same thing, and it's so obvious. Once you see it, you can't and see it. You're like, how did I miss that? You're so into it. Yeah. You at that point, you've seen everything else that's happening in that scene. You've looked at every detail. You've looked the panels on the wall, the designs with the floor, everything, so you can just concentrate on that poor guy that

smacked his head into the doorframe. Um, as you get towards the end, I think there is one important shot too. That's so easy to kind of forget about when it shows. It's a little bit of a you know, uh nugget for things to come. Is when this God burns the swastika off of the crate. Yes, And I never kind of really thought about that shot until today. I was like, man, that's a really that's an important shot because basically what

it's saying is God is real. There's some supernatural or whatever biblical stuff that's gonna go down and and he and he hates Nazis. Yes, I have that exact same thought that God hates Nazis and mice. Those two things can't stand them. That can't stand because or or maybe it's just yeah, like if if if this Nazi, if this swastika burning is is a rock and don't come

a knocking. Maybe they just were too close when that energy was being released, like oh, just meant to get this stuff on the outside, the printed stuff, did I kill? Did I do it again? Can we sweep them away? I don't want people to think it's because of me. I love all my creatures, great and small. They're all mine. Oh good, that's very good. Um, well, I guess let's

talk about that very end. You know, it's sort of I remember even being a kid and seeing the Washington scene and the and the you know, the bureaucracy and uh, you know they're fools, their fools. I remember that impacting me as a kid, like I kind of got it, and it's something that resonates much more as an adult. I think of like, of course, this is what would happen. It's in some warehouse and next to the the Roswell

aliens or whatever. Yes, the military ticket. Of course, the people who said, oh, we just want to take care of it. Ultimately, people in power when they have when there is a a weapon or something available, they had to turn it over to be studied. They're gonna take it like, oh it's ours now, so it's gonna be become property of the U. S. Army. We're just gonna

hide it away from what we needed. And that that was kind of an interesting thing to have come back in Crystal Skull and it starts in that warehouse and they're looking for for that the arc is there. That's it was kind of a neat thing. I don't think it was particularly well executed, unfortunately, but but kind of neat and it The great part about that is the ending of the movie is that you know that's not the end of the story, and so you're gonna wonder

that this chapter is complete. There's nothing left for him to do. He's not gonna break into the warehouse and steal the arc so we can take it to a museum elsewhere in the United States. Right, Yeah, there's something like, oh, this could this, this could continue. Who knows what's going to happen next with that arc? Well, will somebody ever find it as it now lost the time? Who was it actually? What if it was actually in a warehouse somewhere? What if this was true? I mean, I kind it

when they did Crystal Skull. I remember thinking it was so poorly executed. I remember leaving and thinking they could bring back the ark, Like, I don't think that would be a hackneyed thing to do, and I think Lucas and Spielberg probably do think that it would be like we've already done that. But I'm like, I don't know, man, it's in that warehouse, bring it back? Yeah, I think they I think in trying to shift it to something that would have been made more in the was it

the fifties? That that sort of killed it. It It didn't have that same spirit, didn't have it didn't have that serialized adventure of spirit that the first three had because they were trying I think they were, Yeah, they're trying

to shift it to like it's a monster movie. It's subtly a monster movie for the fifties about aliens, except all the alien stuff is real weird and even like the some carra stones were looked better to me, these three, like carved potatoes, were more interesting as an object to go after. Then then what looks like something that you could get in hot topic? Yeah, like, oh this is this is something I got kid puts on their coffee

table to seem interesting. Yeah, oh man, that's so good. Um, you know that last shot, like again as a kid, I remember it's it's still one of the to me, one of the greatest last shots ever in movies. Is that big warehouse Matt painting another great Matt painting, beautiful Matt painting, and uh this you know, nameless custodian who just wheels it in there. I'm sure they are probably Easter eggs in that warehouse that I don't know about,

like labeled labeled rates that are kind of fun. I know R two D two and C three po and Leia are hieroglyphics in the Well of Souls. Yes, and that's kind of a fun little thing. But um and again, I think C three po and and R two d to appear again in Yeah in um In Oh my gosh, Blast said, oh they did also, and when he's when in Venice, I think they're there as well. Okay, that's kind of fun. And then Jaws was on the was on the Close Encounter ship stuck into the suck into

the mother ship. Yeah, there's the Jaws in there somewhere. How do we know that? Rather, it's one of those just facts that comes around. I can't verify this. No, you can see it though on the design of the movie. Know if you can see it or not. If it's just something they stuck on there for Spielberg. Okay, but apparently that's the rumor. That's another great one. That's what

I heard. I'm gonna Matt paint it in if not, I always want I love that last scene to when they're when they're talking about the um the ark being stuffed away or whatever. But I always wanted a band called Top Men and I thought it would be one of the one of the great sort of low key movie reference. Like very few people. A few people would get that, but some people you'd be like, dude, top men Di from Raiders, We've got to men on it all The hardcore fans wear fedoras to your shows, right

there is. I do love the the juxtaposition of this world changing radio to God that has been relegated to a crate being pushed by, like you said, by nobody, and now it's sitting with a bunch of those boxes could have nothing inside them. It's not necessarily you know Mr Mcgourreaan's wonder Emporium of of priceless powerful artifacts, but that that's their top manager. They're just gonna hide it away so that nobody else can have it. But I

would love to see a series. I think of an interesting series Disney plus tell me is is the group of scientists that the army people who would have had to experiment at some point they had to do something with it. Yeah there, I mean, they were trying to take et and for the same reasons you know you're gonna it's at some point someone's going to poke around that arc. That's right, you know, Oh, I know I'm wondering when you know, my daughter's five and a half

and I'm today. I was thinking like could she watch this with me? And I. After I watched, I was like, oh lord, no, like there's so many I mean, she's not scared easily, and she very much gets its stuff is make believe she's seen some stuff like that by accident when I'm playing video games and she's like, oh you cut that guy set off. But I don't know. It just it felt a little too much. And I was thinking about E. T two, like good movie, but it's like my wife was asking like when do we

show her that? Like, well, whenever we want her to see the saddest thing ever happened in a movie. I mean, that's the deal with ET. It's just sucking, heartbreaking. Yeah, let's watch an alien make a latch key kids life more interesting. No, I went to I was five when I went to see it, because it came out in I was born seventy seven. It came out in two, and I remember walking out of the theater and my mom I thought that I think I said out loud, like I thought it was okay. I didn't love it

two stars. Very it was very underwhelmed. My favorite part of it was that he had Star Wars figures because he had hammer Head and I didn't have that. I didn't have a hammer Head alright, But now I I've I've come to appreciate it a lot more. I think at five, I wasn't ready. Yeah, probably so I didn't. If I had been just a little older, if I'd been closer to Elliott's age, I think I would have

identified with Elliott. But I was identifying more with Rew Barry. Yeah, with Gertie's kind of cute, but I mean, yeah, I'm fine. What do I know about cute? I love the yarn in her hair. You know, a girl with yarn in her hair? For five year old me, I thought it was very cute. All Right, dude, this is a lot of fun. I think we did it. This is bleast. Thank you so much for having me on. Yeah, man, thanks for coming on. And I'm gonna hold you to uh hold you to it to have me on your show.

For sure. I will email you the list. I'll do it. I'll do it tomorrow so you don't have it, all right, Thanks buddy. I'm glad everyone listen to this and check out where can they follow you on on your socials. By the way, I am at how Lublin on Twitter. I never post on Instagram, and I'm going to post more on TikTok. But that's pretty much where I who I am everywhere. So come on watch me dance while

I cook on TikTok. We'll listen to We Got This with Mark and How and when things go back to normal, And if you're ever in l A go see worked too improv. It's fantastic. Please do, please do all right, Thanks Bud, Thank you. Movie Crash is produced and written by Charles Bryant and Meel Brown, edited and engineered by Seth Nicholas Johnson, and scored by Noel Brown here in our home studio at Pontsity Market, Atlanta, Georgia. For I

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