Filmmaker Series: Paul on The Bling Ring

that this was not going to go well. Yes, so let us know in the comments sound off at the end of this episode if it's terrible, confirmed, did not go well. But why didn't you print out notes or make notes? Or did you make notes? I just had a tough time with this one, uh, putting my thoughts down cogently or something, and I just felt like seeing how it went, you know, a bit of a confounding movie, you know, it's Uh. I think part of it is having gone through these other Sofia Coppola films. I feel

like with each of them we've done already. I've always had a sense of having been able to wrap my head around what those other films are doing much more clearly, either what the thesis or the argument of those films are this one. I have a tough time really nailing that down, not necessarily to the film's detriments, though yeah, I had you know, here's my history. Um. This film

came out in two thousand, I believe. I think I saw this in the theater if I'm not mistaken, Emily and I did, um and wasn't sure what to think about it at the time, and it came across as sort of without sounding hard, like you know, B level Sofia Coppola, And it's still may reside there, but I definitely got a lot more out of it last night after watching it again through this lens. Uh And And

I like the movie. I don't love it because it's hard to like a movie with so few It's it's very uh and I think it's supposed to be this way. That's what I finally came to. It's very surface level,

very what's the word I'm looking for. It's not very substantial, and I think that's kind of the point, because that's these people are vapid, awful creatures, and it's hard to get into a movie like that when there's no one that you can identify with or root for, especially being my age, it's like, oh boy, this is that generation where they're living their life, this fake life through Instagram and Facebook, and it was hard to so you love a movie like that, But I think that's kind of

the whole point. Yeah, I I so. I Also when I saw it in theater, I kind of left the theater thinking, huh, that didn't do much for me at all, Like what was the point? Why did she feel the need to make this movie? And I never really thought about the movie again until we revisited it today, having and I rewatched actually twice two nights in a row, and it, uh my, my, My feelings toward it have increased.

I like it quite a bit now actually, um, And I think I agree with what you're saying that there is this kind of surface level approach to everything intentionally, and I kind of feel like that's the way to do a movie like this, if you're going to talk about this subject, this story, these people, right, yeah, because it's a and I've seen it's sort of the constant criticism she gets, which is not critiquing her subject matter ors who people feel like should be critiqued more heavily.

And I've really come to appreciate her tone, which is, you know, she gives a lot and maybe more so than many other filmmakers, gives a lot of leeway to the viewer to make up their own damn minds about something and not like being super judgy about her subject matter. And this one maybe more so than any other, could you know be judged. Yeah, I agree, Um, I think the critique is there. She's just such a subtle filmmaker.

She's this filmmaker who doesn't insist upon herself that it's easy to miss some of the critiques that are present, Yeah within the film. Yeah, Like the whole thing to me is a critique when you really look at it, but she's not wagging her finger at it. It's Uh, it's interesting because she uses she utilizes a lot of reality TV techniques, um, very purposefully I think, and all of that creates this sort of like slime here that you just want to wash off of you at the

end of it. But I thought it was super effective. Like especially one of the things that stands out is her use of the webcam stuff. Um, that one great scene with Mark where he's like smoking weed by himself, yeah, and dancing in front of the webcam and it goes on for quite a long time, and it's really like it's her saying like, this is this generation to a degree, and certainly these people to the nth degree. You know.

It's I did not realize this until this morning. I was just kind of scouring YouTube and looking for videos about the actual people in the crime. Yeah, some of that. There's a few few of those videos out there, and one of them has a video of the real life Mark whose name is not Mark in real life, and he something maybe I say it was Nick. Yeah, I think you're right. I don't know. There's a video of him doing that. She basically took that scene from an

exact thing he did. There's a black and like webcam video of him listening to the same song drop It Low and smoking a bowl and kind of singing along, dancing in his in his room. She recreated it, which is just crazy to me. And it's funny. I I read the article, the Vanity Fair article too, that was basically I haven't read that yet. I bet it was great. It's good, and it astounded me how how much she

just basically adapted that. Like she doesn't change very much at all, aside from the names of the kids, and some of the quotes in there, some of the quotes in that I could not believe are real quotes that she used in the movie. For example, at the beginning, when you hear Emma Watson's character saying, I'm a firm believer in karma and this situation was visited upon me too as a learning you know, blah blah blah, I

want to lead a country for one day. Well, no, that I have to read it for not the whole line, but the very last line there is so great. I want to lead a country one day for all I know. That for all I know, that is a real quote from the girl she's based on. Also another quote is that's real? Is the character Rebecca kind of the ringleader

in the movie uh? In the movie when she is talking to an investigator and the investigator says they've she asked if they've interviewed any of the victims and said yes, she says, what did lindsay say? That is also a real quote. Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a couple of lines at the end there that what did lindsay say was just like you gotta be kidding me? And um, because she sort of lit up when they were like,

oh my god, you actually talked to Lindsay. Um was She's uh, she says, you know, well, you know, if I give everything back, can you just let me go? Yeah, And that sort of reaction apparently was pretty real, like her her denying everything and then realizing she's caught and then thinking, oh, if I give all the stuff back, I'll somehow get away or that'll give me leverage, right, which is just It's emblematic of the entire movie, which

is that these kids are so privileged. And I know people throw that word around a lot, but this is the true definition of privilege. Even though they're at the bad Kids school. Um, they are so privileged, and they have so little of a barometer for ethics and doing right and wrong, Like you never get a sense even afterwards that they felt like they did something wrong. But they're so privileged that they have no idea that this is even they could consider it shopping. They even call

it that, let's go shopping. And and the fact that it's reprehensible, it's so gross, and the fact that in some ways maybe they kind of got what they wanted, which was a form of being a celebrity, dealist celebrity, because if you also kind of read about the real life people that's happened to, most of the the sentences they were given at the end, they're pretty light. They're pretty light, and most of them did not. You know, one character sentenced to four years in real life, she

served one of that. That was one of the longer ones. Yeah. I think some of them sort of like, you know, thirty to sixty days. Yeah, the Niki character, Emma Watson's character, she's given six months in real life and in the movie, and she served thirty days in real life. She was in a cell with Lindsay Lohan for or in a

cell block with Lindsey Lohan. But I hear her crying. Yeah, But it just goes to show you that, I mean, there's a critique in and of itself when you think about people who are sentenced to much longer prison terms for possession of marijuana, for example, especially people of color.

You know, we can go down that road, which is absolutely true when when these privileged Calabasas l a. People with wealthy families can kind of get off with just can steal three million dollars worth of stuff, you know, it was not a light crime, and you get the feeling that they thought they won't sit, which is partially true. And that's also the whole other thing is that the opulence is so much that like they're not missing a fifty handbag. It was probably I think several of them

got broken into three or four or five times. Paris Hilton especi't notice for a while and then didn't even want to say anything after they did notice. I think Paris Hilton was aware and didn't even report it to the police until like the third or fourth time. Yeah, because I mean, because to her it was like not worth the hassle of the press, and it's just you know, she'll just buy a new ship exactly. And and her leaving her key under her was that really happened, really happened, Yes,

But the door was even unlocked. That's what I read was the key was under the map, but they didn't even need it. And that's the whole thing. It's like they opened cars that were open and rifled through them. They never broke a window. All these doors are open. These people lived this luxury is lifestyle in the hills, and you know, they feel safe behind their walls. They you know, they would track them down when they're out of town. Let's find out how to get in on

Google Earth. And they made it look so easy because it was you know, I mean, it's it's funny because part of this what's interesting about watching this movie a few years removed is kind of how it is a time capsule, a little bit of this very transitional time, I would say, when you're kind of going from the twenty that the odds to and how the idea of just being able to google a celebrities address was available and it's not like you had to be some kind

of computer hacker to find this stuff. People thing going on super easy. And and you can also, yeah, track winning celebrities out of town because they're going to be in Miami for a club opening. Yeah. And it was also um pre the ubiquity of home security cameras, Like a couple of them had them and that's how they

eventually get undone. But uh, it's not like now like now like I mean, I have home security cameras and I'm I'm F list celebrity no lower than that, I'm more more like a P list No, but everyone has these now all over the neighborhood which which is. You know, I don't know how people feel about that. I think it's I think it's kind of great because people can look out for one another and stuff like that. But um, listeners sound off what level of celebrities, Chuck good Lord?

So maybe we should just really quickly tell people what this movie is in case you don't know when you like to listen even though you haven't seen it. It is tells the true story of a series of robberies from the Bling Ring. These five ended up being more than five in the end. Yeah, only five I think are shown in the movie, but there are there were

a few more people in real life. Yeah, and it showed a couple of people fringe people in the movie, like the one guy Latino guy breaking in and he got sentenced, but they didn't really focus on them too much, sort of focus on the four ladies and uh and the one guy. Um, and they did change the names, as you said, the one guy was Nick Prugo. But

it's really interesting to read the real stuff. I'm gonna read the Vanity Fair article, but I read a bunch of articles about this stuff, and um, it's just like I think, Sofia Coppola was the perfect person to make this into a movie because she deals in she loves shooting pretty things and pretty people, and some people criticize her for that, but to me, that's just her aesthetic and the world that she's in. So that's fine. Um, But it's always the pretty stuff and the fractures within.

It's never just a love letter to anything. It's always like here, these people are really kind of broken in a lot of ways, um, and not like, oh, feel sorry for them necessarily. Like I said, I think she gives the viewer a lot of leeway to feel how they want to feel. She's not there hand holding your hand and really forced feeding you and saying you should feel this way about this thing. Yeah. And I think what makes her a good director for this is because

she's not above taking enjoyment in luxurious things. You've seen it in reads Antoinet, You've seen in all our movies. She you know, she's she's worked with fashion people before she's shot fashion like she to a certain extent enjoys, uh,

the fashion world and ideas of luxury and nice things. Yeah, she's a rich kid, And so that's why she's so good because she can actually while still critiquing all of this, she cannot sort of turn up her nose at the fact that, yeah, there is kind of pleasure in having

nice things. Yeah, it's an interesting perspective because usually you would see a movie about this stuff that's um, you know, made by someone who came from more meager backgrounds, who would really have a pretty scathing critique of they devistrated, and rightfully so probably you know, but this is this is just an interesting take, you know. I totally agree.

The movie starts out with that great sleigh Bells needle drop, and and this is you know, she's known for her music and using popular music in her in her movies, but it's always sort of that aesthetic. She has the sort of dreamy um kind of brit pop. In this movie she totally abandons all that with this very hard edge. I don't even know what you call this stuff because I'm so old and unhip. I just think it's very very contemporary pop and hip hop. Yeah, yeah, it's all

very hard edged. Yes, none of it is as soft around the edges like that Slive Bells song. Is is great because it's it's at the beginning and it's all quiet and as soon as they go into the house, you hear the guitar note. Yeah, and it almost sounds like an alarm. Yeah, it sounds like, oh, they've tripped the alarm. But no, it's just the music plan, which

is a nice little, nice little joke there. Yeah, and it shows that perfect that that robbery with that perfect music playing, and um like right away she starts inter cutting some of the interview I guess, like deposition stuff, so you know the deal and you may have even heard the story going in, so you know they get

caught eventually. And what I was I thought was fairly remarkable last night was if you strip out the millennial social media aspect and sort of the contemporary music, it follows the note of a of a crime drama, like kind of all the stuff, like you know, your ride and high, you can get away with anything, Greed gets the best of you, you go too far, you get pinched. It's like, I mean, it's fucking good Fellas at the same time, it is you know, that's a good point. Yeah,

it really does. I mean, she does some interesting structural things, but ultimately the template is a template we've seen before. Emma Watson's great you kind of steals the movie. Man, I've I've read some people who have critiqued her performance great, she's so good and and if you listen, so that the girl she's based on is a named Alexis Nie And if you watch, if you go on YouTube, you can see videos her of her and she sounds exactly

like Watson and she's not overdoing it. And this girl actually was at the time, right around the time she was arrested, she was shooting a reality TV show for with her mom AND's and sister and sort of fake sister, right, And there's a great clip of her. Uh So at some point after she's you know, been arrested in all this stuff, where she's calling up some writer who wrote a story about it, and she's hysterical crying, and she's

she's telling this writer, you got you got. You put so many lies in there, You've got so many things wrong. You were you said that at the court I was wearing six inch lu Baton heels and it's not true. I was wearing four inch BB something or other shoes. Like that's what she's mad about, that she got the style of shoe wrong. Yeah, it's just it's well, the interview with her at the end was that her mom

played by Leslie Man. It was kind of great and as well is so good because Leslie Man keeps jumping in there. She's like, Mom, you know this isn't about you, and it's just you. Wonder if any of them learned any lessons. I mean, I tried to find some follow up stuff. Apparently, um alexis Snyers and I think both of her sisters got really bad into drugs like heroin and have cleaned up, and I think it are on a better path in life. But can a zebra really

changed his stripes that much? Well? Yeah, And you've seen quotes of various people involved in this sort of giving lip service to either they've become very spiritual or they've done charity work, and they sound like how honestly celebrities sound when they talk, trying to make themselves sound like real people. You know, I've got my charity, I've got this, I've got that to sort of keep me grounded. But it's that like l a version of being air quotes grounded. Yes, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, boy,

that's a whole other thing. And I also thought, you know, it was interesting how it wasn't even about I mean, they did get cash, but it was it was all as a means to live a lifestyle. You know. It wasn't like a typical robbery thing it was and maybe that's always the case, but and maybe it's this particular lifestyle that seems so offensive and so wasteful. But they were robbing this money just so they could throw it away on bottle service at the club and be a

part of the people that they were robbing. Like you get the picture that if one of these people would have come home, they would have wanted to be friends with them more than you know, like run away and try and escape. They try and twist it into like well, what can we hang out? Absolutely, it's not robbing out of necessity, of course, it's it's so funny too. A lot of the times you them go into the houses,

they're already dressed very stylishly, you know. I mean, if if police did show up, they might be able to talk their way out of it because they're dressed very expensively already like like we're friends, yeah, I mean, just because they don't have the quote unquote look of a thief or something. Yeah, and they never feel threatened and like that's how how deep their privilege runs is. I mean, I guess Mark is a little bit like he's the only one that's ever saying we should probably get out

of here. We've been here a long time. The rest of them are like rolling around in their beds and they're not They're not taking a Duffel bag and just raking stuff in their shopping They're like, oh, this looks nice, does this fit me? And like, let me take this bracelet, but not all the bracelets. It's really interesting. You wouldn't think if this would have been written, some would have been like, come on, like this would never happen like this,

but it did. Yeah, and like you said, the fact that they a lot of times just hang out, like they'll just hang out in Paris Hilton's party room because they can, yeah, taking selfies and I think yes, and Paris Hilton makes a brief cameo. Uh and yeah they let her shooting her real place, which kind of adds a whole another meta layer to this movie, I think, which is interesting. But yeah, they're stealing. They're stealing because well,

we don't know. That's that's probably what makes the film difficult, is we don't know the true motivations for why they're doing this because they can, because they can, because they want to feel like they're close to the celebrities, they want to be friends with them. And also because of the the idea of social media where it's not just about stealing this stuff, but it's about stealing it and

then showing it off. It's about exhibitionism. It's about taking a picture of yourself in holding this this purse it didn't happen, and posting it. And how dumb is that, Like the fact that the police could just track them so easily because they posted all these selfies on I know it was I think in actual in real life it was about nine before they were caught and they were telling it. You know, there was their bragging where they're bragging about it their friends and you know, yeah, bitch,

I broke. I was hanging out at Paris this last night. It was so chill well, and they're stealing the stuff because they can't break into that world. If they could have somehow befriended Paris Hilton or Lindsay Lohan, they probably never would have done anything like this, Like this was their only way in was to and that and That's what makes it so gross too, because it's all fake.

They weren't in this world. I mean, they sort of ended up being in that world and that they had the money to go to the clubs, but they weren't. And what they were aspiring to be was, you know, reality star, Like this is who they idolized. Yeah, I mean at the beginning, the Rebecca character says, you know, she wants to go to fashion school and then have her own reality show. Mark once to have his own lifestyle. Man. Like, the people they idolized are are mostly people who are

just famous for being famous. Not all the Orlando Bloom obviously as an actor, Rachel Bilson as an actor. But Paris Hilton, she was one of the first ones. Yeah, like she ushered the whole movement in and it's it's so funny how Also, this movie is kind of a time capsule because most of those people they rob in we're at the peak of their fame and now, like you haven't heard much from Paris Hilton these days, or

Orlando Bloom or I mean, or Lindsay Lohan. Orlando's blooms obviously still acting, but he's not like at the peak. Pirates of the Caribbean level. He was a you know. And it's so interesting how quickly fame comes and then fades. I think it kind of makes this film more interesting. Yeah, and it was shot at a time when we were peak sort of people famous for being famous. It's kind of that whole idea has faded a little bit, I think a little bit a little bit gotten a little

smarter about saying that's bullshit. Yeah, agreed all that the Kardashians really took the baton and ran with it. Yeah, that's very true. Card Asians would be an exception. But I don't know anything about any of this stuff. I've insulated myself so much from that world. Um, but I do know it it's out there, and that it existed and still exists, you know, Yeah, very much still exists. And I know you're so in that world, like talking to you, like your like, uh, I'm right in the

middle of this, you know. You know what I will say is that I I am somebody who to a certain extent enjoys fashion like I enjoy dressing a certain way or whatever. Very cool, thank you. I'm less concerned with brand names than these kids are, but I can at least understand the idea of how good it feels to be in a shirt that fits you just right and to get a new piece of clothing and the sort of high that comes along with that, And I think Sofia Coppola does a good job of capturing that

that high. And you know she doesn't she definitely doesn't any sympathy for these kids, but there is at least some degree of I would say empathy where she allows us to kind of like that scene where he's dancing in front of the webcam or just the slow motion scenes when they're partying in the club, there is that sort of that euphoric feeling after it, maybe after the Pair of Hilton, the first par of Hilton break In when they're at the club and they're dancing and you

get some some of that sort of dreamy Sofia coppla stuff is just like looks so great, it looks great, and you know, we've seen it before and her other movies, and here is kind of being used in a little different way where you can sort of appreciate being kind of in the mindset of these kids a little bit, that that feeling, that rush, while also being like very

turned off by it because of how it came about. Yeah, and because she's not delivering a really hard judgment upon these characters, she gets knocked for it as a filmmaker, I think, and I don't think that's fair it. I mean, it's still endorsing it now. And it's so easy to just make a film that's like sla you know, wagging your finger and saying these kids are bad and we

should we shouldn't feel bad for them. But you know, depiction does not necessarily equal endorsement, which we always remember, agreed, um, And we should mention the cinematographer. Yeah, the cinematographer, Harris Savides, who this was his last film. Yeah, man so sad one of the great young Ish cinematographers. Yeah. He I believe he passed away during post production. Um brain Cancer. Yeah,

that's right. And uh, this was his last movie and he had done Um Somewhere with her before that shot Zodiac. David Fincher. He's had a lot of great movies, really good cinematographer, and and this film he looks great and it has a very unique aesthetic that is a little different than Sofia Coppola's other films. I think, while still having her still feeling like it's very much a Sofia

Coppola movie. Yeah, like she usually, like we talked about, does he sort of ethereal soft, dreamy things, And this is a little more hard edged with the music and the way it shot. And it's uh, like I said, I think it's sort of mimics social media and reality TV, and maybe that's why the movie is a bit of

a turn off. Um. But there are those little glimpses, like the club scene and then that great shot, um when they're in silhouette in Malholland up on mah Holland and that the sea of lights and of l a is behind them. It's a really really great shot. It is. Yeah, but the best what's the best shot of the movie. We'll see what you think. I mean, I'm guessing we're talking about the long push in Yeah, while they're breaking into Uh. I think it's a drain of Partridge. I can't.

That's the one, man, it was so cool. It was. If you haven't seen the movie, it's, um, you know, they're doing all these break INDs and most of them are and all of them are just sort of handheld, sort of burglary style um. And this one, they set the camera this great, great house basically made of glass is what it looks like. And they just set the camera way way way way back on a hill and you don't even it's one of those slow creeps that you don't even realize the cameras moving in and it's

like this glacial push. Which is one of my favorite shots is when like twenty seconds and you're like, oh, ship the cameras moving. Uh, And they just show these kids in shadow, just sort of working their way through the house. Yeah. And because it's all glass, you can easily see them their every move. You see them go in, you see them go upstairs, route around, totally silent, totally silent except for this sort of l a exterior sounds

of like coyotes in the distance. Plane overhead, it's tripping, just kind of that atmospheric ambient noise. Really really cool. It's so cool in it, you know. It's it's a shot that I'm trying to I'm trying to articulate what it's doing within the movie, you know, and it kind of to me emphasizes this. It makes the it makes the house feel like a play set, you know. Uh. And these kids are just playing or something. I don't know,

and also the idea that there's really no danger here. Yeah, but it has this uh and maybe it's just seeing too much hitchcock over the years, like that kind of shot with the glass that you're seeing in and you see them downstairs and then making their way upstairs, and in another movie you're waiting for the person to be home and to come out around the corner from the bathroom and to like shoot them. But and that's kind of the point. I think it's since his has his

foreboding quality, but nothing ever happens that. Yeah, that that reminds me of another shot in the movie that I really like, which is when they're driving in the car, and it's it's a shot that you see in many many movies because it's a shot where you're anticipating a car wreck happening. Yeah, they're they're singing, they're drunk, they're singing to the M A M I A song Bad Girls, and you're just waiting. You know something bad is going

to happen. And yet she hold on that shot so long that eventually kind of let your guard down and you say to yourself, Okay, she's not going to do the thing where they get in a car wreck and then as soon as you let your guard down, the car hits and they get t boned, and then it cuts away and it's like a couple of days later and one girl has to do community service, but otherwise they're fine, no consequences. Yeah, and what is she doing.

She's bragging about the what she blew on the breathalyzer. Yes, he was like I was like three times the legal limit. They didn't even know how I was alive, let alone driving. Yeah, Oh my god. See, Like, to me, this is the judgment, Like this whole film is a judgment and a critique.

But it's just, uh, she's not doing it in a finger waggy way, so it doesn't come across as as that, like that her shooting, her saying that line as a judgment, and as the viewer, you're supposed to say, what a fucking creature this person is, you know, and I will

I'm not going to defend her or these kids. But she Coppola is also saying that it's not just I mean, these are teenage kids, and it's also a product of the environment they're growing up in, you know, I mean when you have parents that say, hey, time for your daily adderall and homeschooling them to do vision boards about

Angelina Jolie. What else are you gonna expect from kids? Yeah, and that's seeing at dinner whether so the parents are so unaware, and that's you know, can be true for a lot of parents of teenagers, um, unaware of what their kids are really doing. But they're just you know that when Emma, Emma Roberts or Emma Watson is um, you know, oh well we borrowed this stuff. You know, they're like, where did you get you know, this the

shirt you're wearing or whatever. She oh, well, we borrowed this stuff because um, you know, we're doing this photo shooting. Our friend is a stylist or he's a photographer, and you know, it's just so easy when you're in that world to explain away the fact that you have uh ten tho dollar sunglasses on. The parents don't even question it, like, oh, like you borrowed it from your friend, your other rich friend because his dad has a production company. So of course, yeah,

they're just woundering their their way through that. But the radar, the parents are so oblivious. The radar never goes off at all. And then in the end when the cops are coming all the they're all just like, what are you doing here? What's going on? Yeah? I love uh

when the cops are coming. I love when they go in down the Watson's home because and the Watson it's like the first time anyone's treating her how she probably should be treated, which is, you know, a little to say, to put it lightly sternly, a little you know, a little tough love. And they're like, she's like, why do we have to sit down? You know, and she's like,

I want to talk to my mom. And it's just those a little bit of delight in the police car when she was like, oh yeah, kind of like yeah, good, because that's probably the most she suffered. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I guess thirty Days in Jail was no picnic, sure, but come on, yeah, like what kind of jail was it? If Lindsay Lowen was in it, probably pretty because you went. You know. I will say though, that there isn't really

a moral center of this movie. If there's anything close to that, I would say it's in the character of Mark. Would you agree she's the one that at least always feels kind of like he's the one that doesn't really necessarily want to go on these robberies. And when he's doing the Vanity Fair interviews in the movie, he seems at least a little bit actually remorseful. Yeah, there's a little bit of contrition, and I think, you know, it's

weird watching it this time. So much of this movie felt very sad to me, and especially watching him his relationship with Rebecca, because they kind of connect at the beginning and they're kind of best friends, and then it quickly, in my mind, turns into an abusive relationship where she keeps being like, let's Rob, let's Rob, and he doesn't want to do it. And I'm not saying he's innocent here, because he does go along with it, but it is kind of like, man, she's not being a very good

friend to you. You know, she's using UM and he's I totally agree with all that he is the new kid he uh. In the interviews, he talks about UM like this is the only person you can have the remote shred of empathy for. In this movie, he talks about never feeling attractive. I never thought I was good looking UM and he's so quick to jump in. It

was it's that first day. I don't know how it happened in real life, but that first day in school, he's immediately falling into this crowd and going along with whatever. Uh rate is it? Rachel. In the movie, Rebecca is saying, um, he he doesn't not do it. You're right, and he's not off the hook for sure, but you get the feeling that he, like, I don't think any of the rest of them even think what they're doing is wrong,

and I think he does, but he's doing it anyway. Yeah, He's the one who you maybe are able to closest identify some kind of motive or or or empathy for, because he you can see that sense of wanting to belong, of wanting to have friends, basically I wanting to have a community of people who you know are there for you, And he does, in some sense get that in a twisted way with this group of people. And I also love the fact that the way she depicts him because he is he is gay. Oh I think he's meant

to be gay. Well, I couldn't really tell, like it it seemed like because he was always he never made it past any of the girls. Um, and I kept waiting for that to happen, like the first time I saw it, But she didn't make it super super obvious either way. I think there's a scene where they're going to break into his friend's house who's out of town, and she says something like do you know him well?

And he said something like no, but he's pretty hot or something like that, and then you know, you see him trying on the pink heels and things like that. Right. Uh, it's it's just kind of presented. I don't know, it's just a it's a it's a depiction of of somebody being gay in a movie that that doesn't sort of that feels real center on that for sure. I I don't. I think it's just kind of a positive depiction of of somebody who's a gay person in a movie, right,

which is ironic because they're like robbing people. Yeah, but I know what you mean. I totally know what you're talking about. Um, she doesn't make it like a caricature or anything like that or make him like over the top, you know, with how he's behaving. Um, he's just a kid trying to fit in. Yeah, and you you mentioned where one of the lines he has at the beginning where he talks about how he's not very good looking, and specifically what he says, I even wrote a town

when I watch because I love the line. I know I'm not ugly, I just I don't know. I never saw myself as an a list looking guy, which just I mean, there it is, you know, the fact that he thinks all these kids think in that kind of vocabulary, that same line the TMZ sort of like only thinking in terms of celebrity A list looking guy. Yeah, and he's the only one. What's interesting is that they're in Hollywood and his dad's in the biz, you know, and

like distribution or something. And he's like, yeah, it's kind of cool. Sometimes you get to go to screenings, but none of them are interested in the art of any of it. Like there's Kirston Dunst and it's not like I loved her in blank it's there's Kirston Dunce at the club and what is she wearing? And it feels like that's the mindset of I'm not saying like all these kids are like that, but these kids are like that,

you know. Yeah, And I keep I I keep always wanting to push back a little bit and not defend the kids, but at least you know, well, you're a millennial, right, yeah,

I'm I'm a little older than them, but not that much. Um, and at least acknowledge the fact that it's not just them as individuals, but it is a construct of a society, of a lifestyle that is presented to us via all forms of media, not just movies, but social media Instagram, Facebook, all these ideal life that allow these types of kids, with these types of mentalities and personalities to develop. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, and the whole thing with them,

I get to go to screenings and stuff. Like if it's us, we would think that's awesome because you get to go to a movie screening and see it before everyone else. And like for them, it's you can go to a screening because you might be seen or photographed. Like it's never again like about the art of it, there's not a follow up question like, oh, interesting, what kind of films has has your dad worked on? Or

anything like that. It's like the Red Carpets, Like that's what they're they're Wonderingly, It's it's really hard not to just go off on that kind of thing. But you're right, I don't think they're victims, but it is a societal issue, right, and the fact that and it's hard also because they are not victims. Nor are the victims victims. Yeah, the rich people, the actually really rich people who have entire

rooms dedicated just to their shoes. You know. Uh, there's definitely a very strong critique in there of just the fact that this lifestyle is able to exist. You know, I agree. I don't know if I want to say it's a critique of capitalism, but it's well, I mean, I don't think Paris Hilton escapes critique in this movie, Like she was like, yeah you did in my house because I was a victim of this thing. But when you're watching this stuff, all I could think about is

how much does one person need? You know? But you know it's their money. It's not her money. She inherited it, of course, but she didn't work for it. Uh. Try not to yuck people's yums. People like what they like, but it's hard not to get a little up on

your own high horse. Yeah. Um. But going back to Mark and and empathy for him, I think one line in particular um sort of reinforces is when he's in one of his interviews or depositions, which I don't know if you I'm sure you notice is sort of set up in a reality TV diary room sort of way they always have the diary room where you can just

go and like talk to camera. Sort of has that feel. UM. But in one of those interviews, he's talking about um her being his first like best friend he's ever had, and he flat out says, I think that's what he's The line is, it's like she's the first best friend I've ever had. And you don't get any of his background, but aside from the fact that he went to the bad boys school because he skipped too much school otherwise, but he seems like a kid without a lot of friends.

Yeah until this, Yeah, agreed, and that's what again. Not feeling sorry for any of them, but it does kind of sting a little bit at the end where they show up at the courtroom and she doesn't even look at him. Yeah. Well, one of them says, how how does it feel to be a rat? Yeah, because he's the one who kind of I guess told tops everything.

They would have found them all anyway. I mean when you're you're posting all this stuff on Facebook, like yeah, I mean they're on the they're on the home security on TV, and they still do a robbery after that a couple I think, and maybe there's a sense of like they're hoping to get caught, or they at least are hoping to be noticed, you know, Yeah, that's why they keep doing it. Maybe well they were finally on

the news. Um, they're so brazen. But it's again, although it follows a sort of standard crime film, they're not brazen because they're brave, or because they're skilled or experienced, because they're not even you know, they're just walking into homes. They're brazen because they're entitled and they don't see any repercussions.

At the end of this, like you get the feeling these kids have never been punished for anything, and except for maybe having to go to the you know, the bad person school and the fact that you know, talking about how it follows the standard crime story except for the epilogue at the end with with Nikki where she's on that interview show and you know, it's the right up until this point, the hammer has finally come down and they've gotten their sentences and then boom, she's on

a TV interview show and she's telling everybody, you can hear my side of the story, what's the last thing you hear at Nicki Moore forever dot com. And she has charlaid this experience into some minor form of celebrity. Yeah. Yeah, they all did for a little while. Um, the gun scene was uh, And I've seen this in other scenes like this, when an idiot has a gun and they're waving it around, it makes me want to crawl out of my skin. It makes me so nervous and uptight.

I can't explain it, no exact same reaction. I am so tense me too, because I've I've been in sort of not not quite that way, but I've been in situations where somebody has a firearm and somebody you're afraid of them handling it wrong, you know. I've been at friends houses who they're hunters and they have their shotgun in the room and somebody just picks it up and immediately nervous, And you're immediately nervous and the barrel might come near you a little bit, and I freaked the

funk out. I can't even I have to get out of the room. Now, I'm with you. I like, we've we've read the news stories. That's how people get their sucking head blown off on accident. And she's being so careless, and you know that it's even ramped up even further because she's never held a gun before. She has no idea, you know, I mean everyone knows you squeeze a trigger, but like, it's just the carelessness is so off the charts that I like at a hard time even sitting

through that scene. And I knew nothing happened. I had seen it before, and I was still just like, God, somebody because he was shoving her armed away, and then she started to get aggressive, like you canna shove me, You're gonna shove me, And I was just like Emily and I were both just like, oh my god, please let this end. And then yeah, it doesn't go off. In the next scene, she the girl who's holding it. Um I forget the character's name. She's one of kind

of the minor members of the Bloom Ring. Yeah, she's the pseudo adopted sister. She goes to her boyfriends and sneaks in and then they start kissing and the gun goes off and then they just drop it. It doesn't shoot anybody, and then they just go to have sex, which is just kind of repercussions. No repercussions. Yeah, very good point, no repercussions. Yeah, this sort of reinforces that. Um just you know, but like every Sophia movie, like it looks great, it sounds great. Um, she always does

such a great job. Like I can never wait to see what she does next, especially as we've seen her career um progress to do. You know, we're going to hit the B Guild at some point, which is a whole different left turn for her. But um, she's one of those filmmakers that I just can't wait to see what happens, you know. Yeah, And um, you know, talking about the cinematography, we mentioned it earlier, but uh, this film was for the first film she saw digitally. All

of our other films were shot on film. Interesting, and I think this is the perfect perfect type of story to shoot digitally, right because it has that very you know, it doesn't have the greenness of film, has that almost

too crystal clear um look to it. I love how she shoots the neighborhoods where it's just all this kind of washed out white or page you know, and like the the interiors of the homes, and then that's contrasted with the scenes at the clubs, are the scenes in the celebrities homes where there's much more sort of life and color, whereas they're kind of in the suburbs in this very monotonous Calabasas is pretty terrible. I've never been there.

You've been there, Yeah, Yeah, it's it's awful. Yeah, I mean it's just deep, deep valley, Like, uh, I had to shoot out there a couple of times. Is the only reason you would ever go to Calabasas unless you live there. Like there's nothing there except for you know, the exurbs of l a Um, just the sprawl of the south Land. It's depressing. She definitely feels like that. Yeah, absolutely Sofia Coppla has a knack for nailing like a time and place, uh more than many filmmakers that I've seen.

And and they are always different times in places. So it's not like she really knows this one thing, Like you know, Woody Allen's Manhattan in New York, not the movie Manhattan, but you know, um, she she's all over the map, but she really nails the time and place, and boy, certainly this movie with the club scene and uh and just that deep Valley x urb contrasted with the Hollywood Hills. I mean, it's all very, very spot on. It just gives the viewer real sense of exactly what

it's like. She's yeah, and we've talked about this before, how she's a master capturing a mood. Yeah. And that's also maybe why this film is a little befuddling at first, because it is still just in some ways it is another mood piece, and yet it's a mood piece with characters you don't really feel any sympathy for. But watching it this time, I feel like when I first saw it, I was kind of like, I don't know if this

felt very different for a Sofia Coppola film. But then watching it again now, I was like, no, this is very reaction, natural progression from Marie Antoinette to somewhere to this, Like it doesn't feel out of place in her filmography at all. I totally agree, man. And the first time I saw it, I thought the same thing. I was like, boy, this is a departure and it's really not. It's it's sort of a similar there's there's a through line through

all her movies. I think, Um, I don't know about The Buguild yet because I need to revisit that only saw it once. That did feel like a departure. Um, although it's still you know, about a group of young women, which you know she's always sort of attract did too.

Um as far as the movie goes, you know, they finally get busted and then they're still so you know, they're trying on what to wear the court and talking about it and they're still the only thing they're consider You get the feeling they still don't even know they did anything wrong. And I love the shots of them sort of walking in to the to the courthouse where there's paparazzi all around, and the way it's shot, it feels like watching celebrities watch walk into courtrooms. Were just

like the way paparazzi stocks celebrities. Marks got his black suit on and his sunglasses and they all kind of are wearing their their their Sunday best a little bit. Yeah, I think they enjoyed the moment, oh absolutely, Like this is almost like they got what they wanted a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, And they the way she handled the court um scene,

which didn't even happen, was kind of perfect. Like you see that that great shot of the court room doors open up and they're all in there and getting seated, and you think, all right, the trial is about to begin, and and then all you see is the door shut and then reopen afterward. And that's kind of the point. You don't need to see any of that. Like, as a viewer, part of me wants to hear what is said in there. You almost want to hear, like the judge tell these yeah, lay it to them, tell these

kids off. But it actually kind of fits with what she's going for, which is not many consequences. You're not gonna get. You're not gonna get that satisfaction as a viewer of knowing that I'm better than these people. You know, yeah, man, and it and it's I get why it frustrates people.

It frustrated me. I never really thought about that, man, that that kind of nails it on the head, Like you want to sit there and see the judge throw the book at him and tell them like you have no idea about consequences, and you're all privileged and you're you know, you've dressed up to come here like all the things that you're thinking as a viewer, and she doesn't give you that. She denies it because it's it's

easy to do that. Yeah, and it's it's an easy, totally way to in araciate yourself to the viewer, which I don't think is what she's going for. She's a much more thoughtful filmmaker than that. I don't Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, And really interesting the you know, talking about the critique, the critiques that are in the movie. One thing I just want to mention, which I think is really interesting in another very subtle critique is the character of I

think it's Chloe, and she's the one. She's she's blonde, and she's the one that's like friends with the guy who works at the club played by Gavin Rosdale. She's the one that gets in the in the car crash the d So what's interesting about her is she the way she sort of carries herself is she's she's one of those those white people who loves to appropriate hip hop culture. She's listening to Rick Ross, She's singing along

to these rap songs. She's she's, you know, talking about how Gangsteres she looks and then you know all that stuff, and then it isn't until near the end when they're in the police are coming to everyone's house that you see where she lives and hers is the scene where the you don't see the police come in, but you just hear the sirens approaching, but she lives in. She lives in like probably she's probably the most wealthy one

of them all. She's that kitchen where you see the mom and a dad in the business suit and the two dogs and then the maid who is a person of color in the background, and it's just this very probably the nicest house you've seen out of the kid where and how you know she's she comes from the place of more privilege than any of the other people, and how she sort of still parlays that into appropriating hip hop culture and trying to trying to you know,

her privilege allows her to do that. And it's just it's another one of those very subtle critiques that is there. But you see, man, she's more than the other kids.

That spoils just that one static shot and that was so well done too, because you hear those sirens in the background and no one notices and everyone's going about their morning and then you hear him get a little bit closer and she plays it out for a nice long stretch and you see her at the kitchen island just sort of like ship like she sort of realizes,

you think, like she knows what's coming. Um. And then the other thing that that was real telling was was Gavin Rossdale, who plays what was he the he's a club owner, right, who moves the rolex is at one point, Yeah, which is why he got busted. I guess he helped move some of the stuff, but his place which was I mean, dude, you still haven't been to l A, Right,

I've been there but briefly. Okay, well you need to go again, and like come out there when I'm there and I'll drive you around to show you, like on a tour of these built in the fifties or sixties l A apartment complexes called like you know, you know, the Palm Springs or something. They always have these like sunny names, and that's what this one had. And it's so like I gotd have been in those apartments before

I was just shitty. I was just in a Tucson, Arizona for work, and they have a lot of those as well. Yeah, yeah, two sounds pretty cool. It is actually a cool town. Yeah, I liked it a lot. That's awesome. Uh, well, you got anything else? Closing thoughts? Closing thoughts. Man, I just gotta say I underrated this one when I first saw it. It's a much better film than I originally gave a credit four. If you haven't watched it in a while, watch it by low

by low. The stock is rising on the blingering, I think because it's a it's a it's a it's a very good film. Yeah, I read. I read a few reviews this morning, and um, many of them are tepid. But this one review I can't remember where it was.

A sort of was really jobbing with this guy because he was like, I think it's sort of very underrated, and he said, you know, I think it's one of her best films, even and everyone got it wrong, like no one, No one got it that what she was trying to do here, And I think I think I sort of agree. And you know what my client kind

of closing thought is. And even I actually thought this when I first saw it in theaters, I was thinking, I wonder how this film will play, how it will feel years from now, and we're what six years on now, it already feels a little dated, dated, not in a way that makes it feel like it's not not a good film, but it feels very of its time, and like, twenty years from now, how is this movie gonna play?

There's something, There's something. It's almost like watching an Antonioni film like Laventure or something where it's about this sort of on we this sort of listlessness of that time and place, and I'm very curious to you know, see when we revisit it again twenty years from now. I

think I think so too. I think it lays well yea, yeah, I mean it's a satire and I think I think twenty forty years from now it will be you can look back and like you said, it's like, oh, America in two thousand eight or whenever, two thousand nine, this weird period it um because hopefully things aren't like that anymore in forty years, and it will be this little snapshot of this weird time in our culture where it'll probably be, oh, that's how we got to where we are,

and maybe so this was it might be the seed of it all. Yeah, But I think this film is gonna age well, uh, anyone who's not appreciating it, now you're gonna be eating crow in when they're doing best of the ads lists again. Yeah, so well done. Sofia Coppola, um much more enjoyed at this time. And I look

forward well, I mean we gotta do. We an't got two more right, Virgen Suicides, which Emily is still going to join us for that, and then The Beguiled, So I'm not sure which one will be next, but um, I'm looking forward to doing those and then you and I moving on to something else. But I want to complete or like Casey bailed on Kubrick because there's just too many. Yeah, we did our nice Kubrick run and

then started mixing it up. But she's contained enough and then her next film that comes out, we should just kind of jump in and do those right away. I was gonna ask you, what did what does Emily think of the Bling Ring? She? Uh, I think she's sort of with me, like and us, Like the first time she saw it, we were both thought it was a little slight and a little not super substantial, and now both realized like, oh that's kind of the point. Yeah, but she watched most of it last night, ended up

going to sleep kind of before the end. But um, yeah, I think she's on she's on board with us. Well, I'm only I can't wait to uh to talk about virgin suicides with you. Yeah, we'll get in here that that should be the next one, I think, and then we'll finish with the guild. All right. Well, thank you everybody, and thank you Paul, and we'll see you next time. Loomy Crush has produced, edited, and engineered by Ramsey unt here in our home studio at Pont City Market, Atlanta, Georgia.

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