Filmmaker Series: Adam Pranica on There Will Be Blood

Paul Thomas Anderson by you, Chuck les Man. I'm having so much fun with the series with you, because uh a, Paul Thomas Anderson is one of my faves, and we're getting into some some pretty good stuff, not not to slag any of his first four films. But there will be Blood was when I sat back, and I think a lot of people did, and went, oh, like, this is what Paul Thomas Anderson is doing here with his

life and career. It's interesting the way confidence reveals itself in filmmakers we love like and how so often many of them get the confidence and then like poison their own wells with like not to not to like look at me using like well terminology and there will be blood that. But like we we mentioned this like the very first time we talked about a Paul Thomas Anderson film, like just how apparent the confidence was from the start.

And here we are several films in and it's just like growing in streng length and you don't get the accompanying like repulsion to that kind of confidence that I think you get in some filmmakers where you get overconfident and too flashy and in many ways like like there will be blood pulls back on that, it slows it all down. It's not flashy in in ways that other directors would choose to be. Yeah, he uh, he was.

He was after a Scorsese thing I think early in his career and whipping that came around and quick cutting and sweeping around and telling these huge stories with a hundred characters. And then he went, wait a minute, let me let me be John Forward for a minute. Yea and dabble in the ford. Yeah, but before we start talking about the movie, how you doing? How is anyone doing? It's an exciting time to be alive. Yeah, hanging just fine. You have you been able to see any of l

A yet No? Still no? And depending on when this episode comes out. I don't know that that will be reality. Really. Oh wow, that's it's one of those huh. I love the confidence you have in episodes you deal with me that nothing will need to be edited. This is a way of podcast life, that is, that is not the way we do things at the Greatest Generation. Do you guys edit heavily? We do? Yeah? What about we really hammer those shows with with drops and sound effects and

taking all of our stammering out. Oh god, don't take the stammering out. I know people are often shocked to speak to me in real life and notice that it takes me five minutes to get to the point of what I'm saying. I love that about you, though. Yeah. Do you guys edit Friendly Fire pretty heavily? Our producer Rob Schulty edits that show and uh and does a

great job with it. I think I think he would blow his brains out if he gave it the amount of scrutiny that we give the Greatest Gen. His Gen takes about a day of editing complete, and that's about an hour long show. If that is any indication of how much we hit we hammer it is that you or ban or do you switch it off, we alternate. Okay, that's cool. That show used to come out two episodes a week back when we were insane, right back in

those early seasons of Star Trek the Next Generation. And then we backed off after t n G and went one episode a week the standard. Yeah. As soon as we joined the Podcasters Union, we were told one a week is what you do. Well, we did that, and we edit every other one. You know what. I don't know if you realize this, but between the new short stuff so not new but newer short stuffs and many crushes, I published podcast episodes on Monday, A, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday,

and Friday, and we release a classic on Saturday. Wow, isn't that crazy? I cannot get enough chuck put in my ear holes. Uh. And I texted you and I've been you know, we text all the time or whatever, but I uh, you know, I took a podcast break from kind of everything, but the Aukerman Scott podcasts barreled

through that for several months. It is, it's great, but um so I binged that for a while and then I have dove right back into flophouse and friendly fire and boy, it's good to be like hanging out with you guys again, because that's what it feels like my three friends and I'm I told Ben yesterday on text, I was like, I'm that podcast fan. I'm just constantly talking back to you guys or straight up texting you

and being like dude. Of course in Gallipoli, Uh, the other guy would have been fast enough to make it right, right, And those are the arguments were famous for starting on that show. Who would win in a foot race? Mel Gibson or the other guy? It's great stuff, man, and I am just started the English Patient episode today. I'm kind of skipping around and uh, it's it's a good

one so far. We really liked that movie. It was good. Yeah, and I love how much are you someone who always watches the source material for the talk about the source material brand of podcast that we both tend to enjoy. No, not at all. In fact, I rarely watched You can need to do that, Chuck. Of course I do for this show, asshole. I p seven days a week, Chuck. I don't think it's unusual to ask that question. Well,

it's my job I watch. I've rarely seen many of the Flop House episodes because you know they do so many really bad, sort of semi obscure movies. Um, and you know, I've seen probably only about of these friendly Fire movies, But I don't feel like I have to go watch him. I like get a lot out of the episode without having seen the movie. I'm sure a lot like some of the movie crush folks do. That's part of the magic of Flophouse is that is that the show is so strong and good without the need

to see the movie. We curate friendly Fire in such a way that we we choose not to do movies that aren't easily available on a streaming service because we're hoping that people watch these movies totally. Yeah, and there's some that I've gone back and watched because of you guys. And I'm definitely gonna watch fucking uh Final Countdown now. I can't believe. I don't know how I didn't know about that movie. I don't know either. It's the sweet Spot like age wise and interest wise, it's yeah, it

hits all hits, all the targets. It's a real treat, real love. How much you loved it and how much Ben didn't And it seemed like you don't hear you guys, seem to have a genuine divide very much. But that was a lot of fun for me. It's fun to really enjoy something at another person in a way that is antagonistic. Absolutely. Man, that's so funny. Uh so I'm doing it. By the way, speaking of Flop House, I'm doing a a run with all three of those guys,

three three weeks in a row with the Floppers. Really. Yeah. So I recorded with Stuart yesterday and I've got Dan in for next week, and then Eliot's going to be the week after. They they are all so great together. A good job by you getting getting maximum value from spreading them out. Yeah, I got there. They're awesome individually too, Like I think, I think those are gonna be great. Can you reveal what the movies are going to be? Yeah? Sure? Stewarts was Ricky? Oh the story of Ricky? Do you

know this movie? Yes? I do, mostly from its uh the imagery used on the Daily Show back when Kilburn used to host her, Right, that's what it's known for. But you know, I have to say that head uh symbol clap head explosion is fairly team compared to what happens in that movie. I haven't seen it. I'm gonna have to see it then. Based on that review, it's pretty great. I mean it's ninety minutes of good, bad dubbing, and you know the eyeball gouge count or eyeball pop

out count is high. Yeah, well even better this multiple disembowments, very creative Gore. I love it. So yeah, he's he did that one. I think Dan is doing Aliens, which would be fun. How has that not been done on on movie Crush yet? I don't know, man, Alien hasn't either. What I know, I'm dying to do Alien. When we did Aliens on Friendly Fire, I said it then and I and I still. I mean, I think it's one of my favorite movies of all time. And it is

because it it almost exists outside of a genre. It's not a science fiction movie or a war film or anything else. It is. It is so many things. I think it's it's great. Was that a pork chop movie? That was a mainline Friendly Fire movie? Oh? Man, I need to I need to hit that one next time. I don't think I saw that one. For some reason. It is so good. That's a movie that I returned to a couple of times a year. That movie told, Yeah, I haven't seen it in a long long time. And

you and Elliot are doing that one. No, that's a dance. I don't know what. It's awesome, awesome, So that'll be good. Yeah, alright, have we caught up? I think? So what are you drinking? I am drinking a big glass of bourbon? Like can you're holding it right in my face. Yeah, that's that's a nice glass. Uh. This A A good friend of mine for my birthday got me the blade Runner glasses. Oh shit, So I'm drinking this out of the heavy ass blade Runner glass and there the You're on the

clouds of Orion. Now what's it called Shoulder of Orion? Yeah, I'm I'm I'm about to get sea Beam wasted. If you catch my drift, I'm gonna get sea Beam glittery. That's amazing. That's not quite as cool as Adam Savage's Blade Runner replica gun that he has made himself with his hands. Nothing that I have or will ever have is as cool as anything Adam Savage has in that warehouse space. Yeah. The worst piece of shit in that

warehouse space is cooler than anything I own. Yeah, yeah, I agreed, Like whatever, he uses as a garbage can. Is better than than anything I've got. I've got a really I've got the best bottle of bourbon in the house poured into this glass. This is Old Boudreau's bourbon. Jamie Boudreau is the owner and bartender of a place called Cannon in Seattle. And it's a place I really want to go to with you if we're ever able to be in Seattle at the same time. It's it's

one of the best bars in the world. And it's and it's run by a total gentleman and he uh, he started bottling his own bourbon. It's one of those places with a thousand bottles on the wall and owned by a guy who's just a collector of of rare spirits. It's it's just the best. That's amazing. I want to try it. Yeah, I loved that makes his own booze.

That's great. Yeah, it's legit. It is. It's delicious. I know I'm probably not supposed to be drinking it with a big ice cube, but I think we've talked about this. We like our drinks cold. Yeah, I do. Um, I'm drinking because you're drinking. You asked you texted me and said, what are you drinking? Mr? And he said what would what would Daniel plain View drink? And I said your milkshake? Yah ha ha ha, and uh, of course you would

drink whiskey, So that's what you're doing. But by that time I had poured a giant gin and tonic into my giant sixteen ounce yetti mug, so I didn't have to get up. I love a yetti mug for for keeping it chill. Question about Daniel plain Views drinking in this movie, we see him drink out of the flask quite a bit. We see him pour booze into a glass of milk for for his son. What is he drinking? Like? Are we clear on what's in the flask? Because it doesn't turn the milk brown. It looks like so much.

I thought it looked brown in his flask though now yeah, it did in the flask, but not when mixed with the milk. Maybe it's moonshine maybe, so it's clear, but it really looks like it does the job. Yeah, well it does. And it's weird because it doesn't show him. You see him, you see him hitting the flask, but it doesn't show him hitting a bottle to excess to indicate anything, but he does seem very drunk at least at the end. It appears as though there is a

substance abuse problem. Yeah, storyline here. Yeah, Um, all right, so there will be blood the next you know, we skipped um punch drunk Love. You allow me to skip that since I did that with Tony Hale, although at the end of this, maybe we'll go back and do it again because it'd be a different conversation. I would, but I loved your conversation with Tony Hale, and I would never dream to to try to best it, so well,

it wouldn't be that. But I mean that was a live one too, so that was I mean, you were at that one, so that was live shows are always a little different, so I think we could probably have a probably a deeper run at that movie. So maybe we should do that at some point. But there will be blood. Like I said, was was the movie where I was like, p t A is not fucking around here. He's gotten a lot more going because I loved him, but this just showed to me that he had a

lot more going on than I thought he did. This was the time where I was going to see his movies at midnight showings the night they dropped at the independent movie theater. Yeah, and this film was like Punch Drunk Love was unique and special and a surprise. This this film felt like an assault at midnight, Like you go to the midnight screening and you're like, Okay, I'm ready for my two and a half hours of awesome. And it was I mean, I mean assault in the

best way. Like it was a physical to to watch it that first time. And it's been a film that I go back to every year for a lot of reasons. It's like it's it's the best kind of assault. Like you said, it's great. It's great to feel something when you watch a movie. I think this is something that we agree on about the entire p t A move mm hmm. Yeah. Absolutely, this is a movie that I'm going to go back to now. I had only seen it the one time. Man, I saw it in the theater,

and uh I liked it a lot. But this time I fucking loved it. Like it. It took on a whole different spin for me. Always you know, I always say this, but when I watched movies in a studied lens, like for the show that really you know, when you watch a movie like that, that's a different experience. And boy, this is just a fucking phenomenal film on every single level. Some people think it's boring and slow, but and you don't want to be those guys to be like, well,

they just didn't get it because that's shitty. But because it's not for everyone, you know, there's no routable protagonist. I love that sensibility about movies in je rule though. You know, like some things aren't for everyone and that's fine. Like the story of Ricky isn't for everyone, but you get but you get two of the right people together to talk about it. It's it's the perfect thing. Yeah, yeah, totally. So um, I mean, let's just dive in. Man, we

can go anywhere we want. Uh. You know. It opens up with that that menacing Johnny Greenwood score and just that that synth stab at the beginning, that droning synth that just immediately I imagine, I mean I don't really remember, but you remember that first viewing that just washes over

a theater crowd like a heavy, uncomfortable quilt. Yeah, it really like it's a it's a continuation of the promise of what happened in Punch Drunk Glove, Like Punch Drunk Glove was visual and auditory and how it like disrupted you a little bit during the experience. But this is this feels like a continuation of that theme, like how can we create an atmosphere of being unsettled? And the answer many times in this movie is that Johnny Greenwood score.

It's it's like it's discordant and percussion, but it's like not on time with itself, and it just makes you uncomfortable throughout the movie. And and I think it's a it's an aspect of this film that's been copied by a lot of other filmmakers, as I think this time has gone on. Yeah, I mean it ended up being a I think you're right. I think it ended up

being a very influential score. Uh. And the fact that it was Johnny Greenwood, it got a lot of buzz for that um And I think I remember hearing that he did the score beforehand, and what what we got was not what I expected. Not that I had a preconceived notion, but I love Radiohead, They're one of my favorite bands, and what he did was was just what worked for this film, had nothing to do with Rady Ahead. Obviously.

I'm really excited when I learned that, uh, successful creative people have moments like where where they have a crisis of confidence. And the story about Johnny Greenwood and doing the score was like he didn't think he could do it.

He didn't he didn't think he'd do enough good enough job for Paul Thomas Anderson, and Paul Thoms Anderson Anderson was like, dude, you're Johnny Greenwood, You're amazing, like and it's and it's like p t A coaching him through it, like you're doing great man, Like keep keep making it, like this is exactly what I'm going for. And and I like that the idea that to creators could have that kind of mutual respect for each other, and that respect could take the form of I don't know if

I'm good enough for you. It's interesting, that's a very like it's like a very human quality to to someone like I don't think of people in Radiohead as human. That's like the equality I ascribed to what they make, you know, yeah, absolutely, And that's you know, it's kind of sweet in a way that he would feel that way. And I sort of get it though, like as even though he's Johnny Greenwood to be like, you know what, I want to try a movie score. Um, and Paul

Thomas Anderson comes knocking. I don't know how that all came about, but that's you know, you're not dipping you it's a big knock big knockers. Yeah. Yeah. I you know what, like one of the one of the low key things that really grabs your attention when this movie starts is the title card that says nineteen o two. Yeah. And if you sit in that moment for a second and you recognize that like it's just over a hundred years ago, Yeah, that this ship is taking place. Yeah,

it's shocking that that so much happens in a century. Yeah, and the movie takes place over almost thirty year period. I think it's like twenty eight or twenty nine years. And um that the font that they use for the title cards in the in the in the year title cards UM very biblical obviously, and starting I think it

did it start a nine two? I thought it started, Yeah it did then, Yet you know, to title card was just something that that's squared it's time like by the century, Like that's as close to an even century as I think any of the title cards get right.

So it's started in the late eighteen hundreds. And Um, another thing I love about this film and films like this is and it sort of reminded me of Days of Heaven and the reality of what life was like back then, and and how shitty oil rigging was, digging fucking pipeline ditches a hundred miles long, Like you do that ship with your fucking hands man. That's not a technical garment that Daniel play View is wearing at the bottom of the well, Like that is hot, thick wool,

like tincloth he's got on down there. It's it's incredible, And like this is a film that's full of those kind of details, the discomfort and the dirt and could you imagine, like you've been on your share of film sets, but like the the dirtiness apparent on every character and here has got to stick to every part of the production, Like every camera has got to be covered in the same dust, every every light, every scrim It seems like a real punisher. Yeah, And I don't know what they

used for the oil. Um was it oil? Is that a dumb question? There is I should look this up because there's a specific name for it, but the stuff that McDonald's uses for their milkshakes. Coincidentally enough, it starts as a as a base. It's a liquid base that you then add flavor and other liquid two to make the McDonald's milkshake, the milk and cream and sugar. I know a lot of people are going to be shocked to hear that it that it comes in a tanker truck,

but that's what it is. When you go and get your frap from Costco, like your your your Mocha freeze or whatever, it all comes from the same source stuff. This this sludgy stuff, and that's what this liquid is that they used throughout the film. Yeah, holy sh it. Yeah, it's so funny that it's milkshake. I don't know if it's better to think about it being like if it had been real oil or if it had been sweet McDonald's milkshake. That's fucking gross too, Like they're both almost

equally gross, and they're really are they really are? Well it certainly looks good, man, I mean, I guess they had. I mean, the whole movie looks. Mean. We got to talk about Jack Fisk for a minute, and he was the production designer and just a fucking icon of that department over the years. He did the Early Malik, he did Days of Heaven, he did over his Plate. That's where he and says he Spasic met and they are still married today. Awesome. Uh I think they're still married.

True love is is possible, It's but man, they just there's not a frame in this film that doesn't look like they just had a fucking time machine and dropped themselves in the period. You know what. But it also doesn't feel like it's overdone, like a like a Christmas store in a shopping mall where every square inches filled with a detail. Yeah, it doesn't. It isn't overdone in a flashy way. It's it's perfectly it's restrained, like so much at the rest of this movie. Well, I was

just about to say that it is restraint. It's spare. Um. It's not a huge cast, it's not you never see you never see the world at all. Like it's always very insular around this man and where he is at the time. And he's by virtue of the story, he is sort of out in the boonies. But you know, he never goes to the big city to do anything. There's never any weird subplot where he has to go

into town. Uh, there's there's not much there. Your your comment about that perspective, I think is spot on, and it's it's you notice it in the visual compositions too, because like, how often are you seeing the back of Daniel day Lewis's head in scenes like You've got a Daniel day Lewis here and eat and you're gonna and you're gonna spend fifteen seconds on the back of his head? Are you crazy? But so often we get these super long sequences unspooling and you're just getting like just glimpses

of perspectives. It's it's incredible the way that this film spends its time. Yeah, did you were able to watch that YouTube thing I sent? I did that was that was a really interesting link that you sent me. Yeah,

I posted that on the movie crush page. But if you're not there and you're listening, and you um how I framed it when I posted as a primer, But also if people that listen to the show or movie shows don't and our movie fans but don't feel like they really understand what camera framing and placement and movement and editing and pace, like kind of what that all

means and how it affects a film. Watching that little seven minute video really kind of lays it out there in a way that's super interesting and very easy to understand. And the long and short of it, if you haven't seen it, is that not you, but the listeners that the average shot length of this movie ends up being about thirteen seconds long, which if you don't know much about it, it might be like whatever, but that is

really really really long, right. Yeah. The math of that is astounding, and it's also like an evolution of of

a filmmaker's sensibility. When we were talking about Boogie Nights and about Heartache slash Sydney, I know, one of the one of the aspects that we enjoyed was like the the introduction to a scene with that three shot sequence, and the evolution of the three shot sequence in this film is instead an unbroken shot in three parts where we're finally we're like, we're starting uh with a with an scu and then we're widening out even more and then maybe we're pushing it on a character and you're

still using those three beats to open a scene in a way that's just a furtherance of a sensibility. Yeah, and and he makes a point of that in the video to the three frame shot or whatever, and and another sort one of the takeaways from that video It's um is that when you do a movie like that and you have this kind of deliberate pacing, it really puts a lot of heat on the editor because the cuts are so important because they're not just cuts there, Uh,

there's a real purpose behind each one. Yeah, I mean considering it from a from a production aspect and not just an editorial aspect, Like it's so much easier to film your sequences in shorter runs because going back to one in a standard film as a fairly easy process. We're gonna, we're gonna roll the dolly back. We're gonna we're gonna take it again. Go here. It's like, get your two extras back into place. Walk Daniel day Lewis, back up the oil rig. It's it's seven minutes of

stuff to redo. And I wonder how many takes you get a day for a sequence like that. Well, yeah, and think about I mean you're talking about the dirt. Think about the sequences where they start out with no oil on them and up covered in oil to go back to one. And for everyone listening, we assume you know this. You may not back to one means first

positions and that's basically just resetting everything. Like you said, put the camera back in place, but you know a lot of times you're moving lights back into place that the actors have to completely change their wardrobe and sometimes take a shower, and like a reset like this could

take like an hour. And if you're shooting sequences for coverage, you're depending on an actor's appropriate reception to remember where they were, where their hands were, what they were looking at it a certain as the script supervisor at a certain spot. And like, yeah, when your takes are seven minutes long or whatever, that's an incredible amount of of day for an actor to retain, uh in a in a movie like this, it's just a mirror. Yeah. Yeah.

And more than that, like you know, a script supervisor will a good script supervisor script he will will have all that for you. Yeah, because the actor will be like, which handed I have the Bible in or the book in, and but I think getting back to that emotional space. Yeah, and not just important, but super fucking hard. But you know Damuel day Lewis, and is there anyone better in

the world and acting than him? If you've spent five minutes screaming at a kid in your scene, like, it's one thing for for DDL to like go back to one emotionally, Yeah, but when you're Dylan Freeser, like, yeah, how do you do it? Yeah? His son, It's total. It's one of the miracles of this movie is how they could pull that off. Yeah. I mean there's so many great actors in the world, but he's the best at it, right, Daniel day Lewits This is not or

there's no one better. No, there's not. I can't imagine you're already Paul Thomas Anderson. Just try to imagine, like you introduced me as Paul Thomas Anderson. Now I'm gonna do this to you. Imagine you're Paul Thomas Anderson and you're as great as Paul Thomas Anderson and I'm married to Maya Rudolph, which is so much fun. Now imagine you've you've thrown up the you've thrown open the door to your wagon. You're going to set uh and you're

working with Bob Elswood. Yeah, and your your actor, your star is Daniel day Lewis. This is as good as it gets. I think for a storyteller, you have all of the best pieces. You've got Jack Fisk direct production designing your film. You've got Johnny Greenwood as the editor.

He's amazing. I wonder this is like an aspect to like, I read a lot of interview with P. T A. But I wonder to what extent you're You're nervous when the deck of cards you're given to play with is all aces and you And I wonder if there's any aspect to him in his mind that's like, how do I funk this up? I can't funk this up right? Yeah? That there there is a weird sort of pressure there that's sort of antithetical to what you think. You're like,

I've got all the best people. But then I wonder if at some point it's like, oh shit, I've got all the best people. Guess who the weak point in this entire project is? All right? So Mark Bridges is the costume designer, and um did he win for this? I know this one a handful of Academy Awards. I think it wont to. I should have looked that up. Why do I think it won an Editing Award? Did it? Are you looking that up? I'll help, I should help, That's what I should do. It one for actor obviously,

not one for cinematography. Okay, so, but it was nominated for editing and sound editing in art direction. But Daniel day lewis one for this one though, right he did? Yeah? Yeah,

well jeez. Uh So speaking of shots, I mean, there's so many great shots, but one of my favorites is the and I'm sure you'd love this one too, that the shot where towards the end where they're digging a pipeline, and it goes that long tracking shot all the way down the pipeline and again showing that backbreaking pick axe work of what you had to do to build a

pipeline like that. And uh, then it gets to the that big wide shot when the camera settles of the when plain View is reunited with his son in the field, and then it swings around and follows as they cross over the train tracks and walk to the to the right of camera, and uh, it lulls you to sleep such that I had to rewind it excited and realize it was one shot. It was so well done. It's

hypnotic in that way. Yeah. Yeah, And and I think one aspect to that video that you sent me that was studying this movie was that, like, there's a greater value placed on every cut when there are so few of them in a movie like this. Yeah. Yeah, that was a scene that made me wonder, like you remember when they're remember when they're laying the pipe check, I

know that was your favorite part. There's there's the pick ax guys down pipe we'll call it, but the people with pipe, there's like the wrenchers, the people connecting the two pieces, and then there's a guy with a hammer tink tinking the pipe. And it made me wonder, is that the guy that you see, you know, in the bottom of of like a Roman ship hitting the drum so that the people with the oars row in time?

I wonder if he's the click track to the pipe laying or if if like, what is what's with the hitting of the empty pipe with the hammer other than I didn't notice that guy. Yeah, well, I'll tell you one thing. He wasn't there by accident because Paul Thomas Anderson spent a he did a lot of work to get this movie right and did a lot of studying

on what the process was like of searching for that. Well, he's not at the very beginning, he's searching for silver, I think, right, Yeah, he's a silver miner prospector and he finds oil and his career kind of takes a different turn after after the legs snap. Yeah, it's pretty

incidental how his life took a turn. Yeah, boy, that legs Net two When you see it and then you see him laying on the floor with just the board strapped to it, and you know what year it is, and you're like, man, I don't know if he knows it, but he will always be in pain and he will always walk with a limp from here to the of time. Daniel Plainview died of dysentery. Was the was the title

card I was expecting? Yeah, I love the detail of the dirty floor, like he's down there with the splint and that floor is just so filthy and just hauling out that oil by the bucket like early on and before they have I don't know if that was I guess that's how they did it, or maybe his operation just wasn't big enough to afford the equipment. Yet I couldn't quite decide. But either way, that's just brutal. That

milkshake McDonald's milkshake sludge. I wonder if, much like there is a group that makes sure that you're treating your animals ethically on a movie set, if there isn't an environmental ah person whose job it is is to make sure that your milkshake doesn't go into the ground forever? Yeah? Or is that ship toxic to the actors? Yeah? I

don't know, and I don't think we mentioned yet. You know, the first almost fifteen minutes of this movie or dialogue Free, which is one of my favorite things that I've seen a few movies do stuff like this, but he certainly takes it to a pretty extreme level with fifteen minutes. But it's just gripping. I wonder if you don't appreciate Johnny Greenwood enough if that fifteen minutes are filled with dialogue, because it gives you fifteen minutes to go, hey, check

it out. This is going to be different. This is this is the emotional through line of this movie made clear by the score. Like noticed this because you wouldn't otherwise? Yeah? Yeah, for sure he does. He has a lot of room, which you know that might have been one of the things to make it nervous. He's nervous going in. Then, Paul Thomas Anderson, it's like, and get this, You've got the first fifteen minutes of this movie to yourself. I yeah, if if P. T A said that that was a

miss take, should have kept that to himself. Probably so he's like, I don't have Tom York to lean on. No, I'm just kidding. One of the great faces that gets introduced early on in this movie is is Fletcher Hamilton's the Saran Hines character. Yeah, he's awesome, one of the great faces in all of movies. Yeah, where do I know him from? I've seen him before and when I saw him yesterday, he looks God, who does he look like?

He looks a little bit like someone else. Oh, I can't think there's an actor that he sort of looks like, and I couldn't quite place it. He's a that guy in so many movies. He's just great and valuable. Like if you need a face that's going to be in a in this movie, like like his is is perfect. Like if you've got a DDL you're gonna need to Saren Hines and and he's right there. Yeah. I mean

there's a lot of great faces in this movie. Um, the like I said, there's not a ton of characters, but um, if you don't have a lot of dialogue, you need a great face. Do you think that's what they were going for here with like with the Paul Dano stuff, Like another great face. I'm looking at the faces now. The guy who plays his brother, Henry Kevin j o'connorman, great face. Uh, that little girl Mary Sunday, great face. You know. Mary Sunday had kind of a

come and see face. Also like a very aged old and aged young girl totally. You know, she looked like she had I bags is like an eight year old. Yeah. Uh, I'm looking at the cast now. And I didn't realize that our buddy Paula Tompkins was in it. Which part

was he? So in the scene where Daniel plain View, not the first business meeting he has with the town, but like one of the one of the middle ones he goes in, he gives his pitch and the town just erupts in the pews fighting over what's going to happen. And remember when he just pieces out and he leaves. He's like, I don't need this. Yeah yeah. The guy who runs out of the meeting after him and says no, no, no no, wait, like like, well, we're gonna work with you.

It's gonna be okay, And then plain View goes, I wouldn't take this site for free. That's Paul left to really. Yeah, man, I gotta go. I'm gonna put that in right after we finished this and and check that out again, because I know we talked about it because he was in I mean, he's been in a couple of Paul Thomas Anderson movies. Was it Magnolia that we talked about it? Yeah, yeah, Lucky Devil. I know, man, could you like I would you? You could probably get away with being an extra in

There will be blood. I could see you dirty ing up is like the sort of the anti gruff bearded guy. They were also the fair skinned ones like yourself. Oh yeah, I'm glad you went there with it, because any make up artist would have to have me in the chair for like six hours to put enough facial hair on this. No. I think every movie like this needs a guy like you in there with like, you know, shiny apple cheeks, because you got to show the guy who's like fucking miserable.

He's like, I don't I don't fit in here. I'm a man of a different time. I'm a time traveler, traveler that's made a terrible mistake. Um, let's talk about Paul Dano for a minute, uh, the or for many minutes. The I remember now the first time I saw this, I was one of the dummies who h was confused the entire film about whether these guys were brothers, twins, or if there was some weird And I think that's why the movie why I didn't love it the first time,

because I left thinking were they the same guy? Was he a figment of his imagination? Was he not real? I thought there was some weird thing going on, and there was, and at all that he just got him to play brothers. I think the thing that doesn't tie that thread up ably in a way that you would expect from a film and a filmmaker that is so good at like making all the pieces fit, that you

never see Paul after his first scene. Yes, and that's why you're waiting for the Paul shoe to drop your like, surely there's a scene where it's going to be revealed that Paul has been doing Eli bilesque and he's infiltrated the church and he's going to take it down from the inside or something. And it's and it's like an an unintentional amount of tension put into this film that that is, uh, it's distracting, unfortunately it is. That's the one knock is that? And now it's kind of coming

back to me. I totally remember thinking because there's the one scene where where Eli is that brutal scene where he where he just brutalizes his father is just so raw and demeaning. But he says something about he references Paul and he said Paul made the deal or something like that. And I think when I saw that the first time, my takeaway was that he had a like a split personality or something. And that really messed with

me because it just it didn't feel right. It's because it wasn't right, but that was a distraction for sure, especially because you know, around this time, I feel like the split personality storyline in a movie was was a thing, a thing that one would expect on occasion, you know, yeah, yeah, for sure, and you know the story was I'm sure

you know this. He had another actor cast as Eli, and Dana was cast as Paul, which was a very small part, and this guy, kell O'Neill got fired after the weeks and p t A was just like, hey, Paul Dano was great, you should do both parts. I I mean, I think you and I could, you know, write a long list of the of the many you know, regrets we have in our lives, or or like the the moments where like we wish they had turned out differently.

But boy, when the there will be Blood train leaves without you when you had a ticket on it, Yeah, that's gotta be tough. Yeah, that's tough. And the longstanding sort of lore was that uh dd L was too intimidating for him and he couldn't hang. But I did read some articles where he came clean years later and he's like, no, that's not the deal at all. He's like, I didn't you know, I didn't handle things right, and Paul and I just didn't work out. And sometimes it

just doesn't work out. That's tough to be painted with that brush in the first brush. Yeah, with either brush, I guess you don't want to be the guy that that has a reputation for not working with well with Paul Thomas Anderson, you know, I think you find a way to make it work. Uh. That first scene with with Eli though, when he finally comes to uh, not when they're building the fire or whatever, but when they

first are sitting down for the negotiation. Basically that really just sets into motion what is the central conflict in this movie, which is this battle between these two men. Um unlike any other sort of battle between two men that you've seen in any movie, though, it's really weird. Yeah, it's it's like the battle for the soul of the town, for any town that they're occupying at the same time. Yeah.

That and just like I mean, he eventually says it when he finally confides with who he thinks is his brother, that great scene where he says, you know, there's a competition in me and I don't want anyone else to win. And that's sort of what's going on with he and Eli to uh, starting with that negotiation. Yeah, it's so all of the scenes of negotiation in this film are

just riveting. Yeah. Yeah, I love it. Every time he meets with the I mean the map guy, I don't know who the guy is that knows who owns all the properties. But when he has that first meeting and he said, can it all be got? Can all the

land we got? And he goes sure that that was al right because later on he says, don't be thick in front of me al, And I think that's my favorite line in the movie, don't be think in front of me al. Another one of my favorite lines is during that first negotiation when Paul Dano asks him which church he goes to, and it's like the ultimate almost politicians answer. He's like, you know, I like uh, I like many different churches, and then he goes it's almost

not noticeable, he goes, I like everything. I like everything, and in fact he hates everything. Yeah, he'll say what it takes to close the deal. Yeah. I mean it's weird because he never, even from the beginning, he never feels truthful or trustworthy, even though we haven't really seen him be either one of those things yet. He just Daniel de Lewis brings this just severe unease to uh, this character that like, you just know he's fucking trouble.

What's interesting about Plainview is that when he makes his pitch to the towns. It is never a hey, you you can trust me because of how I am with people. It is always you can vet me the success in my past. Okay, look at this dig and the one before that and the one before that. You know, you know, when you deal with me, you're going to get a well that produces and you're gonna make a ton of money. But at no point is he ever making the case the dis a trustworthy person for any other reason than

than previous success. Right, And that's why he, you know, has adopted this child as a prop. I mean, their relationship is interesting. We should unpack that for a second. He has he has the son that he basically kind of takes over and adopts from one of his early rigs that his father dies, and he clearly is using him as a prop and even says so very cruel at the end. But um, he also can't keep his hands off of him, like clearly loves this kid too. Yeah, yeah,

it's true. It's it's so interesting, like how their relationship is born through like the violence of his father's death. Yeah, you understand that there is a mom, but she is she's gone, Yeah, died a childbirth, he said, it's I mean, every time we're in the well, it feels dangerous because of that first scene, because of HW's father's death, and and I guess going back before that, like like that opening scene where Daniel breaks his leg like whatever, inside

a well, feeling safe, very good about things. Yeah, I mean that's where the title kind of comes back. It's those aren't bloody occasions. But I mean the title says, you know it's got It's a very imposing title of impending badness. There will be blood. Does what it says on the movie poster. Well, it's interesting too because there's not a lot of blood until you know the money shot at the end, and that is the promise fulfilled.

I guess of the two scenes that you love, Chuck or the pipe laying scene and the money shot at the end. But you rarely stick around that long until the end. You's wrong with you done by then? The job site is not a safe place for a child, and yet h W is there all the time and he gets deaf because of it. Yeah. Yeah, I for a non professional actor to be as expressive as this actor is throughout the film, and it's unexpressive in a very specific way, like all those scenes where where Daniels

making the pitch and he's just stoically behind him. Yeah, it's magical. Yeah, it's really good. And he didn't really it's sort of I think you see this a lot of movies where you get a non actor kid who does a great job and they never do anything else because there Uh what's perfect about them is that they were non actors to begin with. I get it though, Like if you're if you're if you're Dylan Freezer, what do you do after this? Where is there to go?

You've been thanked on stage at the Academy Awards by by Daniel day Lewis. Did he thank him? Yeah, like as his son, Wow, my son and my son in the movie. He said something like that, how does it get better than that? It doesn't. Probably just hang it up and and go go work at the Ponty act

Dealership or something. Yeah, that's probably what he does. So I was talking about the you know, the central driving uh conflict in this movie is Eli and Daniel's relationship, and it's, uh, it's just one started that there's that negotiation, and after that there's this it's just a constant power

play against each other. Starting off with that first one where he h Eli asked to christen the well and Daniel fucking just pulls a rug out and and uses Mary and blesses the well himself right in front of his face. A lesser movie I think would have had Daniel do this at Eli in a more pronounced way. But the most withering thing that Daniel could do was ignore Eli completely the way he did. Yeah, you're right,

I didn't notice that. There's not that one shot that you expect in that scene where he's he zeroes in on him and you get the close up of him his eyes looking at his face. Yeah, it's it's like that scene in Tombstone. I'm sorry, I didn't know you were there. You may go like that kind of withering, like you don't even register to me as as a person, as a as a thing. You know. The other time they do this, I mean, it's a total character thing

they think about it is. The other power play he makes is when he there's that sort of picnic table scene when they're taking lunch and he brings Mary over and tells Mary how uh. He basically, in so many words, says I'm your father now, and you're not gonna get hit anymore. And the whole time I'm like, and he's saying, your dad can't hit you, or it's not gonna hit you. And the whole time I'm like, wait, isn't that like his dad right there? And he doesn't even acknowledg him.

He doesn't look over and be like, right, when you're so powerful, you don't even have to look at the target of your ire, Like, that's true power right there. Absolutely, that's like the level three guys in Red Dead Redemption. They're not even looking. One of my favorite sequences having to do with Mary is when she and h W are playing and they jump off the deck, circle around and jump off the deck, and then after one of the jumps we cut to the wedding. Yeah, yeah, that's great.

That's a great transition. I love that cut too, it's really nice. Yeah, that's a great flash forward because you, um, you see that, you see it the riding on the wall, when they start playing together right then. Yeah, not that they're just like, uh, they're gonna be buddies, Like, oh, they're gonna get married. It easily connects the continuity too, in a movie that that does not have comparatively as

much dialogue as other films. You need to be good at showing that visually and you're getting need to probably, but cut the two sequences together the way they do. Yeah, yeah, the Eli stuff, like you know, you know that he's a preacher and he's so soft spoken, and then like an hour into it, you get it that first sermon in the healing and it's like, oh, okay, that's what's that's what's going on here. There's no indication that that's what you were about to dive into. As a viewer,

I love the power play. We're is going to be jumping around this whole conversation, which is yeah, but the but we talked so much about the power play between Daniel and Eli having like non subtle elements to it. But the subtlety of people coming off of Daniel's job site and being prostolytized too by Eli and his church, like being issued the little fabric crosses, like being invited to church, Like that kind of invasion into into the

workplace there is so like it's it's subtly antagonistic. Yeah, And the one guy, uh just kind of barred his right by that might have been Paula Thompkins for all I know, But that is sort of the deal, is that he has got these uh in those days with the vast expanse of nothingness when you built an oil well, you were building a town. And he makes that great point.

He is like, you know you're going to have schools and you're going to have business, and you know like this I'm what I'm bringing is opportunity, not just this oil business. And the one thing in his way is this fucking church and this guy, in a weird way, he is the obstacle. I love that daniels salesmanship is so fast and sharp that he ends up sucking himself fairly early on when when he lies like where's that

road you promised going to go? And he's like the church first, Yeah, church guy in the crowd, and like like he's so he's so fast that ends up being his undoing, like like being so easy to please in that moment sets himself Yeah, yeah, you're right. I didn't really think about that. And that's an uncharacteristic give I think right, right, because he's so hungry in the big

I need to close the deal. He gets a little bit less so as the film goes on and as he as he amasses his power, he'd never do that

kind of deal in the next town. No, And you know what that kind of ties into with the end, because it all culminates in the ultimate power play when like he starts out really desperate for the deal, and then that in that last negotiation sort of bookended by these negotiations, he secretly knows that he already has that fucking oil from the Bandy tract and that's where he dupes him into renouncing God. And uh, that's I mean, that is such a power play. He's he's a drunk,

like he's just slurring cruel drunk at the end. But he never loses the facility of memory. And he never forgets a slight, even if it's a if, even if it's an untrue slight like the perceived slight. Yes, he'll never forget it. And that's such a reminder, like he reminds you as a character how he'll never forget stuff. And so by the end, everything's on the table when you lie shows up and you wonder how he's going to return the favor for that initial baptism like that

that baptism. Man, Yeah, am I remembering correctly that that was basically the trailer to this movie, like I abandoned my boy. Like they basically showed that sequence and that was the trailer. God, I abandoned my boy. That was tough stuff, man, dude, I mean it is. It is a war. After that, he's and and you know he's a man of God supposedly, but you know as a viewer, he's doing this to humiliate him like it's personal for

him too. He's not righteous. You're okay, we're gonna do this game again, Jack, all right, you're this time you're Paul Dano. You're not Paul You're not Paul Thomis Anderson. You've been field promoted into the part of Eli Sunday. Congratulations. Yeah. Man, You know that the previous actor hired to play Eli Sunday left because left because he was afraid of acting across across from Daniel day Lewis as allegedly, well that's

what he thought at the time. Sure. Uh, And now you have to slap Daniel day Lewis around, ye hard, Take after take, yeah, back to one. Paul Dano got your slap in hand ready? Yeah? Oh man, he owns this movie. He does such a good job. Like, I've always been a big Paul Dano fan, but I didn't know he could do this. When this came out, It's incredible. He's so great, so great in this, I don't I think if you're casting it, you can't go for the

You can't go for Anuel day Lewis is equal. You have to play compatibility games, right, like, because Paul Dano's got soft power to Daniel day Lewis is hard power. Yes, that's what makes Eli's character so effective at getting his goat right. Yeah, he does have the soft power because he um for better for worse. He has the influence of the townsfolk because you know, back then there they the church was a very big deal. It was sort

of the center of things. They were all the preacher was. Yeah, I mean they weren't the mayor, but they had the same sort of influence, you know. Yeah. Um, let's talk about the explosion sequence when his son loses his hearing, and that Johnny Green would score man is just uh so unsettling, and its magic hour and this fire is raging and he's with the sun and that that whole sequence is just it's it's one of the best sequences

in movies, not just in this movie. You're right about light playing such a great part in the greatness of this scene. You experience the passage of time by the sun going down. You also experience how Daniel plain few

changes forever in this moment. Yeah, you think you know who he is before this happens, and when Sara Hynes's character is like, hey, HW has got to be cool, right because you're standing right here next to me watching this explosion, and the look on Sara hides his face when when he realizes that no, h W is not okay, Well, he says it man. The line is he says, he says, w H gonna be okay? As h W or w

H I can't remember hbbi you. He says, h W gonna be okay, and he just goes, no, he isn't like he just flatly says, it's really, oh you think so dr kind of like yeah, And it leads to man, some of the most especially now as a father, some of those brutal ship in this movie is him him laying on the floor when the sun's just making that sound, and that sound is driving him crazy and he's trying to get him to stop, but he can't hear him, and then that all culminates in and it's hard to

even talk about. Man, the the abandoned boy scene when he puts him on that train and fucking leaves them there. It's so hardcore. It's another scene that makes me want more Syrian Hines because he's the guy. You see him him as the guy behind the guy, and the way they reveal him is so great in that sequence with Daniel d Lewis like like exit DDL inter Serean Hines like and the and the screaming that were meant to

hear that that plain view does not. Yeah, yea, he leaves Yeah the audience here's that, but he doesn't that. I mean you read that that fire caused problems for No Country for old men, Like that's one of the fun trivial bits of blood. Like they're shooting in the same area of Texas and what did the smoke? Yeah, yeah, the smoke blew a day. That's fantastic. And then No Country beat this out for Best Picture too, didn't it it did? I that's tough, man. They're they're two perfect movies.

They are they are utterly perfect, and I almost wish that they did not exist in the same year, so that this one may be appreciated more. I think I think generally No Country for Old Men is a more a more beloved film than this. I don't know if that sure, if that is a correct take, but it feels that is. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of people

that I mean, this is very unsettling movie. Like I said, there's no protagonists you can root for, and this sort of began that trajectory of his with the Master to where there's there's not a like of not a lot of likability in it. So they're challenging tough films. Um.

But speaking of the Oscars, just funny. I was thinking, like, some years you get this when you have two perfect films, and then there are other years where Crash and Shakespeare and love Ye spread it around, guys, spread it around. Can we do a little like grouping of a few years or something. Yeah, it's funny how those groupings work, especially in retrospect. You know. Yeah, let's talk about the

brother who is not the brother. Um that is yeah, Henry and not just him, but like what he means for this film is way more than then this brother character coming in because it opens up it does so much to Daniel. To Daniel Plainview's character, he he's more human than he is at any point in the movie, which is still not much around Henry for a little while,

but he bonds with him. I think it's a chance to redeem himself really after what happened to H. W like there's some humanity left in him that that you see in his relationship with with his fake brother, and he gets don draperd by him. He does, he does, uh, he trust him and h you can tell that there's a brokenness to his his family blind yea emotionally within him. But he starts to trust him and you can tell

that he's he's feeling this void. And you know, sometimes when you see a character is just kind of misanthropic. Is is Daniel Plainview? You wonder or I wonder, like what got them there? And he clearly has a broken family history because from the moment he meets Henry, even though he doubts who he may be, he starts asking all kinds of questions about his sister and about you know,

he he wants some sort of connection like that. Yeah, And it doesn't come across as h interrogative, like he's not he's not interrogating him in a way that would feel unnatural or would give away his suspicions about Henry. And it's very well done the way the way Daniel does this. It's a slow drip in confirming the guy's identity. And yeah, there's just one. It's funny how when Henry slips,

it isn't that he said something that was incorrect. It's that he didn't say anything at all in reaction to a reference and that's what did him in Well what was it? Because that I didn't quite pick up on it. So what what happens is? Uh? I mean, I'm assuming

if you're listening to this you've probably seen it. But they really kind of do become brothers, and there's these you know, a lot of the movie kind of there's probably another half hour of them, and it doesn't show them bonding in a chummy way like at the bar, you know, hugging each other. But there he becomes the HW like he's the sidekick on all the all the

mission and he's a business partner and um. Then they eventually get to a brothel and Henry is drunk and he's asking for money, um to to go be with a lady and I that's when the moment happens. But I didn't quite pick up on what the tell was. Oh no, it happened before that. It happened on the beach, okay, swimming Daniel refers to something on shore that when Henry has his head down he does not react to. Oh, and that's the moment where Daniels, like my brother would

have would have gotten that reference. That was not that was not a deep cut. The real Henry would get it. And so when we cut to the brothel later, he's already in a bad place. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, that makes a lot more sense now because he's just sitting there, uh, clearly upset, in angry, angrier than normal.

I think one of my favorite shots in this movie is once that realization is made clear, we're back in the water with Daniel, and I'm like, well, the first time I saw this movie, I was like, well, Daniel is going to drown him, right, going to be what happens, But instead it's it's Daniel with his arms out and the wave behind him is coming. Daniels. Not you never you know this, You never turn your back on the

ocean Daniels. Daniels propelled forward into the camera. By the way, he is not He's not scared or or damaged by it at all. And that was such a dark foreshadowing of what was going to happen, Like that power of him as a character, like not even nature can harm him, almost like he marshals the wave. I love that shot. And the movie filled with great shots. Yeah, I love that shot, and I I just sort of appreciated it as an aesthetic thing. But uh, I love your Hilm paper,

the film paper and the next eight pages. I'll tell you why that's significant. Yeah, for for you guys listening, first of all, check out friendly Fire. But that that's sort of one of the running jokes on friendly Fire is I think you did the first one them, like you know, the student writing the film paper, which is to say, you know something some sort of weird, kind of deep right, if you're making some sort of like deeper meaning connection in the film, we're going to call

it a film paper on friendly Fire. I what was the first one? I can't remember, but it was what was it? Oh, I don't remember the first time. Oh man, I forgot my first film paper, and I'll have to the job. I'm pretty sure it was a first blood thing like that, because that was a film I actually wrote film papers about. I was a film studies major, and so I wrote. I wrote my share of eight to sixteen page film papers. Did you see the last one? I haven't because I the flophouse did it from what

I read, and I haven't to that episode either. You should. They come down on it pretty hard though. It's and not in a like, oh it's not a good movie. Away there, like this is sort of trash and xenophobic and racist and just bad in every way. I don't understand how you can start with a first blood and just get worse and worse and worse and worse every time.

Like it's got such it's like a house with good bones, right, like the Rambo universe, like like the studs are square, every corner is perfect, the trim is great, and and movie after a movie they just take fucking sledgehammers to that character. You're right, I love your analogies, dude. It's awful. The last Rambo movie should have been a first blood type of movie. Yeah, yeah, I don't know if I'll ever see that last one. I don't know if I have the heart to like, I'm afraid it's going to spoil.

Sometimes sometimes I won't see a sequel film because I just don't want the the earlier stuff ruined. Oh dude, I did, I did. I didn't see Anchorman two for that very reason. I heard it wasn't good, and I was like, I don't even want to see it. Then I still haven't. That's a great poll. That's that's one of those ones. Um, all right, so back to There will be Blood. I did want to mention when the

brother shows up. Uh, it's very key here, and I made a special note, um, you know, kind of jumping back to when Henry arrives on the scene and that very first bit you finally sort of get. You know, plain View is not someone that he He doesn't seem like he just wants to be rich or you know, you don't know what his motivation is as a person.

It's not super clear until the scene and he finally just lays it out there halfway through the film when he says talks about the competition not wanting to lose, but he says a very key thing, which is that he wants to make enough money to get away from everyone. Yeah,

he hate people. Yeah. Yeah, And it's interesting how family is the cheat code for that, right, Like when Henry first arrived, I was like, when Henry first arrived, I was like, Daniel is going to shoot him in the head day one, even if he is the brother, because what does it mean. It means another person to divide the money with. And what is the one thing that Daniel is going to be unwilling to do. It's gonna

be that. And the longer that Henry lived in the movie, the more you get, the more you understand that, Like by being family, that's a protection for him against Daniel. It's the thing that that suspends the competitive nature of Daniel. It allows him to continue in a way that no other person would be allowed. Yeah. And in the end when he kills him, uh you know, he said he shoul shoot him on the dead head and day one he shot him on the head, and day like whatever.

How much time is last few months? Maybe six months a season? Yeah, enough to get a few more wells? Yeah he he but he does. So Like my take was that not because he was duped, but I think more because he was hurt. Yeah, And he would never admit that. But after that, you see him weep when he sees a picture of his real brother in that diary, like he finally made he finally made this human connection and got burned. I think that's kind of his undoing too. I mean, you see this a lot in real life.

You get you get dumped really hard that first time, and you're never the same. Yeah, You're never as open with anyone because it could always happen again after that. And I think it's the same with family when when family hurts you, or or who you think is a family member hurts you, or or anything else, like like, you're never as open as the moment where you're made

to regret that openness. Yes, yeah, that's and that's Daniel's time. Yeah, and he kills him, and that ends up being his undoing in a few ways, because I think emotionally he put himself out there for the first time and just got wrecked. And it's also his undoing, and that that's what sort of spins the plot forward to the Bandy stuff, right, because Bandy knows that he killed him. I love like everything in this movie is almost like without dialogue. But

when Bandy produces the gun and you know that it's great. Yeah, and the and the only other option is like go down the road of keep killing people, like then you kill Bandy because he knows. Yeah, Daniel has a code and that code is only kill family members or or married in family member brs like legal family members. Yeah, that's his deal. Yeah, because I guess Eli is a

family member at some point, because yeah, that's right. Um. Earlier you mentioned the the grudges that he's able to hold over slight or perceived slight, and I'd forgotten, like the big case of this one is the standard oil guy. Yeah. And all the guy said was like, you know, you, you and your son, you can take care and hang out with your son. And that was it. Man, it's

so innocent, and I'm glad that it was. Like if it edged a little more into into flip or cutting, it would give you some sort of like you as a viewer, you would forgive Daniel in a way that he is unforgivable. Yeah, it must be totally innocent, and that standard oil guy is man. Yeah, and he's great, Like he felt like a non actor. I don't know who he was, but he uh. The way they handle that in the restaurant later on, Man, that scene the napkin over the face, Oh my god, so holy shit,

it is just ridiculous, how great it is. How what was he doing? Was that? I mean, was that an actor's choice? It was such again, a power move. How hard are you biting the inside off your cheek? If you're Paul Thomas Anderson you're sitting underneath the camera and you're watching that happen like, you've got to be giddy. Yeah, that was an amazing scene that he was drunk guy at the bar. Yeah, he drank that other guy's shadow whiskey. Yeah,

that's a power move too. Have you ever been to a restaurant with someone who is embarrassing to go to restaurants with? Um? No, but I kind of know what you're talking about. The there's a scene in here that that like makes my skin crawl. And it's not it's

so not obvious. But when Daniel goes up to the bar to get the drinks that he and h W ordered and says, we ordered these before those other guys, just letting you know that is a quality of a person who's bad at restaurant that it like, I know, I know we both know people like this that I'll never go places with these people. They don't know how to be And even if you get your drink second, you just can't say that it makes you a bad person.

And this is like it's so in keeping with Daniel's whole worldview, like like that code he is not going to be slighted by being served second oil guys are there. Yeah, and and the fact that he he's in there by himself with the sun. He gets addressed first by the waiter and then this the big the big hot the big fat cats come in all together and all of a sudden, everyone's just paying attention. And that is like like the humiliation for him is real as for a

viewer it's like, come on, man, like who cares? But it's a big deal to him. Uh And and though he doesn't he only murders two people. I think he wants to murder a lot of people in this movie. Yes, he wanted to kill that waiter, right, And it almost feels like there's more danger being with Daniel when he doesn't, because it's just like a coiled spring. Yeah, like like the tension just becomes so great and there's nowhere for it to go. But at the delivering end of a

bowling pin. One of my favorite lines of dialogue in the whole movie is from this restaurant seem though, Chuck. It's he's trying to get through to his son and it's un clear whether or not they can even have any kind of communication with each other. Yeah. Yeah, he's like checking him out, making sure he's okay, and he's like, you know what, you know, what's gonna do it? All we need is a good, strong, expensive meal. Yeah, is what he says. Yeah, he orders two steaks. There's like,

there's certain friends in certain situations. I feel like where that is the line? Right, Yeah, we've just been through a thing. Let's get a good, strong, expensive meal. Did that be you and me? Don't you think? Absolutely? Yeah? Alright, that's what I was thinking about. Um. By the way,

I had a note in here I forgot to mention. UM. I went back and subtitle that that first brutally abusive baptism scene with Eli uh, because there's so much going on, it's chaotic, and so I subtitled because Daniel day Lewis was saying stuff the whole time, and at the very end after he slapped him, and he gets up and everyone's cheering and it's just like complete chaos in there. He goes, he just gets up and goes, there's a pipeline because the only reason he went through that is

because he needed that pipeline. Like that's the only reason he endures that and doesn't just kill Eli in that room. He goes in at Paul Dano in the corner of the of the stage and he gets in his face and he says stuff that we can't hear. Yeah, that's not in the subtitles. Yeah, that's the big that's like the lost in translation mystery. As far as I'm concerned, those are not loving words like that. What did he say though, because you know he's in character and like

that's Daniel day Lewis just doing his thing. If you rewatch that scene, I think Paul Dano breaks at the end of it. There's a moment where he like his body does a thing and his face does a thing where I don't know what d d L says, but maybe he's fucking with them. Then I wonder, I really wonder, what's it like living with Daniel dy Lewis while he's making this movie, Like a method guy, Like what what comes home to you every night? Night? Daniel day Lewis

came home from set? Is the horror movie that I would watch. Yeah, I don't know. I mean it's probably pretty intense. He's one of those guys though, that's that's worth the reach. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um. You know the other thing with that time jump to as we go into that third act that where you knew they were going to get together was when um, it shows him learning sign language and you see Mary behind him also learning the sign language. I didn't say that earlier,

did you know? Okay, it's like, wait a minute, it's one of the subtle ways, Like just besides Mary's proximity to h W at all times and her willingness to like play and seek safety with him, and the plain Views like it's her she's interested in being with him for the long haul. Yeah, she wants to be able to communicate with him. Yeah, and and that and you know the next thing you see is that Daniel Plainview

has gotten what he wanted. He made so much money that he was able to build a big house and remove himself from society and not not have to see people. And he says angry, old lovesome, drunk in this huge house. Uh, with no nothing, nobody he likes around him. He's surrounded by nothing that he likes. Correct. I thought it was interesting that his housekeeper reminded me so much of Eli's father, to the extent that I thought it was Eli's father

working for him. Like, even though I don't think the years work there, I think I think that man is long dead. I didn't notice that. Did he look like him? I thought so, but in a way that like everyone on the job site looked like Daniel day Lewis to me, also in a certain way, like like dirty, hard living, about to die, decrepit men. Yeah, and he's just he's

he's sort of lost his mind at this point. I don't I don't know if there's a legitimental illness going on or if it's just kind of, you know, misanthropic hermit syndrome. Yeah. Yeah, it's hard to tell. I mean, I think when you're when you're shooting a firearm inside your home, yeah, randomly, that's a bad sign. Elvis Elvis style. Yeah, yeah, I do like that Bowling Alley though he's bowling Alley rich. Yeah, he's Bowling Alley rich and you know, I just is

the guy? Is he a sociopath? Like? What is his diagnosis? I I mean, I think we both have own mean drunks. And I wonder to what extent there might not be anything else to it. If we rarely see him sober, and when we do see him drinking, it is like a force multiplier on his personality. I wonder if that's all it is? That maybe it uh? I read that this house is outside of l A, this mansion, I mean, oh really, yeah. I wonder if it's go and seeable in a way that the Boogie Night's house is not.

Did I tell you I went to go? I was out in West Covina on an errand and I attempted to go to the Boogie Knight's house. And what you can't is there a fence or something that's too far off the street. It's behind a gate and you can't even see it. It was really disappointing, just ring the buzzer. You and I are going to buy that house, Chuck.

That's the play. Um. You get that breakup scene with the sun, which is just brutal man like the one thing he had in his life that he thought was had a chance at being some sort of pure relationship, was his relationship with his son, and that time jumps forward and it's just like it's such a slap to the like a punch in the gut to the audience

of what happened between them. You and I don't know anything about Paul Thomas Anderson's family, but you get the sense, like we've talked about this a bunch, right, like how family, How family is such a theme in his films, and like nothing hurts quite like the the family member on family member emotional violence that we see so often in

his movies. And in the same way that that we're seeing in our tour, like changing and evolving with how he's setting up scenes and those three shot sequences, like the venom with which a family member destroys another family member in his movies is getting sharper and deeper and more awful to witness, Like he's getting better at a

cruel thing. Yeah, I mean, when Eli goes after his dad, he does it the same And I think the scene was right before when and we haven't talked about it yet, When Daniel that first beat down of Eli in front of the other guys he's working with, and then Eli does the same thing to his dad. It's just it's the sun of the abused abuse of dad abusing his son basically, but it's his dad. Yeah, it is rough.

I think it's interesting that we get that thrumming Johnny Greenwood score throughout the entire movie until the final scene, right, Like, we get it up until the confrontation, and then it falls away and then and then it's almost shocking when it's gone because once we move to the bowling Alley and it's not they're all you're hearing is the is the echo from that room. Yeah, all you're getting is

their attention on each other. It's in the same way that we've been talking about, Like you you appreciate the edits because there are so few of them. You you get a sense of the of the tension here when the music goes away. Yeah, absolutely, And that that does that starkness to that ending. I think that lends itself to that and it's, uh, it's so brutal. I mean, he's in such bad shape. He's just an awful, depraved human throughout, but especially at the end. It's a great

sweater though it's great sweater. They really they really choose angles to emphasize the sweater. Once that once we get to the mansion, it's very comfortable. But he ends up on the ground again. And the way they enter Eli so great because you only see him. The camera kind of stays there on the ground, so you see from the waist down someone walking up and you're kind of like, well, who's that going to be? Then he kneels down and it's Eli And it's this, I mean, the ending to

this movie. Man just brutally. Uh, it's just brutal. It's such a ride. Like if if you're doing this linearly, like you're thinking about how you top yourself and not just a career, but in a movie. You know, you've got to bring this thing to a conclusion somehow. How

do you do that? There will be blood? Yeah, I mean the this is a legendary scene now partially because of the drink your Milkshake, which became like a legit meme when when DDL is is softballing bowling balls at him and then he hits the bucket and they don't cut away chuck like the bucket flips into the camera and the DDL keeps coming like across such a happy accident to not cut away and instead we're swinging the camera as he passes, like, yeah, holy sh it, that

was amazing. Well, and it's funny. I say, that's a happy accident. What if Daniel day Lewis is like I was trying to hit that bucket? Where does the bowling ball go? I mean he's gunning them at the camera guy, Yeah, and if it hits the bucket, Like, what are the chances that it hits the rig? Yeah? Boy? Man? Him coming back like he as I try to think of Eli's character as like, um, like what he was thinking before that, It's like, oh, well I need some money. Uh,

And so you know what. I know we've had our differences in the past, but I'm going to go talk to my now in law, Mr. Plain View and see if he'll give me some money. It's like a big mistake with the standing that family is a shield for the sort of violence that he gets later. Like I think he feels like he's safe here he does. I mean, yeah, I think the worst he thinks might happen is that he will like run him out of there and yell

at him or something. He does. I don't think he knows because he doesn't know where he that he has just broken up with his son, and like he's having a pretty bad day. Yeah, he's a depraved guy, but he's at his lowest point. I think here, Yeah, not a good time to ask for money. You know, we've both been drunk before, we've both been very drunk together. But I don't know that I've ever been drunk and passed out in the middle of a bowling alley lane

or drunk you might if you had one in your basement. Yeah, you know what, that's true. There's a big difference. I'm definitely dirt napping in the middle of a lane. But it's such a great revenge at the end. Like this whole movie, that central conflict with him back and forth is you know, there's always one of them that wants to get the other one back for the last thing, and this is the end of that. He's never too drunk to see a play, like to see a target

that can be exploited. There is no amount of drinking that could get him off target in this scene. I think that's what's so scary. Like he's wobbly and glassy eyed and gross and not super slurry. Yeah, but when

Eli walks into that bear trap, it is over for him. Yeah, And the acting is just I mean, how many times I'd love to know a little bit about just shooting this last sequence, like if they waited till the end of the shooting schedule to do it, or like it doesn't seem like this is one of those movies where it doesn't feel like you could just do this in the first third of your shooting schedule or anything like that, Like it's just a a rumble in the jungle level

acting exercise between these two guys. I go back and forth every time I watched this movie between the idea that Eli has been exposed as a charlatan and this is his moment of admitting it, or if he's just doing it for money. I think you could make a case either way. I think you're right, and I like both versions of the movie almost equally. Yeah. Yeah, I don't even think. I don't know how important that is.

I guess if you are an anti Eli the whole movie, you want him to admit that he's a snake oil salesman, and you want you want him to admit his fraudulence. But there's never there's never an indication of that, Like there's never that scene that you might get in a movie where it shows him pocketing the the plate money

or anything like that. Yeah, that's an interesting point, Like you aren't super clear whether or not he's a reliable character with his circumstances, even like can we trust that Eli wouldn't say anything to get more money that he may or may not need. Maybe he thinks that Daniel is down and and persuadable and manipulatable in a way that like, well, I mean, elies flying the globe prostlytizing, like maybe this is a good time to to get

some some quick cash. He's got money. Maybe he fell into that kind of trap, like maybe it's a it's a version of Eli trying to out Daniel Daniel and it just backfires. You can even see that being a possibility. Yeah it, boy, is it backfire. I didn't even remember the first time I saw it too, and even last night, even though I knew what happened, it kind takes you by surprise a little bit because he's out of control, he's throwing those bowling balls. But I did not anticipate

what happened and bludgeoning him to death. It really surprises because the the it seems like a survivable circumstance. Yeah, at all times, Yeah, I could see him just kicking him in the gut until he was, you know, coughing up blood. Like I could see it going that far. But from this movie is you don't want to wear dress shoes to a bowling alley. Yeah that was his undoing, wouldn't it. Yeah, it really was. That last shot about no dress shoes at the bowling alley. Uh, that last

shot is so great too. When the when the house man comes down and I'm finished, that last line is just doesn't get any better. Man, just so perfect. So spare still even at the end. I know you and I are nerds about like when credits happened, like opening credits especially, like you'll see a director credit at the perfect time, splashy, perfect frame. But but p t A has a real like he has developed an instinct for when to drop the title and this is one of

those movies. I'm a fan of that too, of dropping the title card at the end, that's a cool thing. Yeah, how would you? I know every one of us is all has fantasized about your how you would do your credits and stuff. What do you want in front of the movie thing, because you get your choice or back

of the movie thing. This is a great question. I think you get the benefit at the beginning of designing what it looks like like in and in the way in the way, you don't get that benefit at the end, like if you want to design a visual around what your name is superimposed over, like the beginnings where it's at like I'll always remember John wu Who's director credit, showing up in face off when Nick Cage gets out of his Cadillac El Dorado and his cape flows back

and in slow motion it just crackles, and it's directed by John Woo at the bottom, and we're like, this

says everything about the director here. But I think in the in a movie like this, uh, Paul Thomas Anderson has graduated past the need for any of that, and he's more interested in Like I really love the ending of Boogie Nights and and Magnolia for the same reason, like like we we ramp up and up and up like the roller coasters, clacking up to the top, and then like the curtain fucking falls on the right quickly and the right credit at the end, like it's all

perfectly timed in a way that like it's so intentional. Yeah, there's a although there's not much going on here at the end and he's just sort of sitting there. I feel like his movies, it's hard to describe. He ends them like five frames early or something. There's this weird energy to the way he ends his movies. Yeah. I agree. It's effective, though, man in a big way. And that's when that black title card, even though I think he did, like you said, there will be blood on this one.

But um, there's something you said for the flashy thing in the beginning. But when you when you time that directed written and directed by Paul Thomas Anderson card that hits you with the right music queue, that's another kind of power play. It's a little jolt. It's the last it's the last chance to jolt you. You know, it is great. It's a great moment. It's a great moment in a great movie. God damn, dude, I think we did it a hundred minutes. I mean we usually go longer,

but I can be satisfied with this. I'm finished, Jack, Are you finished? Yeah? I'm finished. But before that'll be fine, that'll be fine, um before, I'm sure you'll agree. Oh man, he's so good in this movie. I just can't get over how great he is in that voice, which he kind of ripped off from John Houston. Apparently it's the perfect voice. God, he's good. It's the perfect voice, it's the perfect mustache, it's the perfect hate. God damn, dude, that was the last thing on my list. That's just

about to say. The hat such a great hat. You can buy that hat, dude, I looked it up. There's a company called Baron Hats, all right, I'm looking it up right now, Like I think it's spelled b A r o N. And they may call the hats for movies and it's called the plain View. And it's like fucking six dollars. Though it's so much money for a hat, but I want it so bad. Oh my god, that's it right, they ate it for the movie. Hast this hat, of course he does. Yeah, they were probably crew gifts. God,

could you imagine? It's pretty sweet. I don't know if I could pull it off, though Ben Harrison probably could. Oh yeah, he could totally. I like, I don't have a hat head or a hat face, I look like the I looked like the kid from the sand Lot. When I put on a hat, I look like I looked like Smalls. My brother worked on that movie. I can't pull off a hat. God, what a what a great hat. It's a good looking hat, didn't it. Shoot? I looked. I looked up one time Bob Dylan's on

the Rolling Thunder review tour. I don't know which about Dylan, but he had that great hat. It's that big sort of ballero hat and I had the feather stuff on the side and that great band. I was like, oh man, I wonder if anyone makes one of those. And I looked it up and it was like it was almost like a thousand dollars for a perfect replica, and like, can't. I can never spend a thousand dollars on a hat that you wear like twice a year, maybe just to

show off or something. I do it. I will go as far as glasses like this, this whiskey glass I'm drinking out of is is absurdly priced, and I'm I didn't buy it for myself. You gotta tell me. I feel like this is glass. Oh God, it's dumb. But the difference is you don't wear a hat every day and you can drink whiskey every day. That's a solid point and that's a great way to end. In the punch line to all this, everyone is next time I see Adam, we're both going to meet at the same

bar and show up in this goddamn hat. Double plain views, double plain views. All right, brother, this is a lot of fun. It was. Thanks so much for having me back. I love this project we're doing. Yeah, me too, and thank you. Thanks to everyone for listening, and we will see you next week. Lumie Crush has produced, edited, and engineered by Ramsey Hunt here in our home studio at

Pont City Market, Atlanta, Georgia. For I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.