Filmmaker Series: Adam Pranica on Inherent Vice

Fire nest. We still need to do our joint episode. I mean, it's not even gonna happen this year. That's the saddest thing. It's not gonna happen in the next two weeks. I was wondering if it was on the calendar and I just missed it. But yeah, I don't see it. Yeah, we had a great time. Had Fuck I knew I didn't tell you about it, and you did a stone movie without me. Goddamn it. Welcome to movie Crush everyone. I'm talking with Adam Pranica already, man

as well, leave that stuff in. That's fun. Oh Yeah, that's the best stuff. That's the cream Adam of Friendly Fire excuse me from the Max Fun Network and Greatest Generation and what's the news? The newest one, the new Star Trek show is called Greatest Discovery, Greatest Discovery And I forget that show about Star Trek that you pay for. You don't pay for the podcast. You pay for that kind of Star Trek. Oh really, it's a what's it on? You gotta give some money to CPS for for the

new Star Trek. Yeah. Wow, that's a smart move by them. It makes a lot of money off those treks. It looks like they're making a boatload. It's a very very polished show. Now I know your co host John Roderick because I'm his friend. And what he says, he says star Trek just to you know, be contrary. But does he say trackers instead of truck Trek or track ees instead of truck E's Oh that would be the worst. All right, So you haven't heard him say that, We haven't, No,

but don't give him any ideas. Yeah, that's true. I need to get told you off Arab behind on Friendly Fire. So I'm looking forward to get back. I had noticed our a tick down in our statistics for the show I'm downloading, and motherfucker, that's all that counts. We're down to we're down to four subscribers, and they're all our parents. My old joke with listeners who would write in and say they didn't listen as much anymore, But like started, I was like, as long as you're still downloading it,

that's fine. Yeah, yeah, it counts the same to me. Yeah, no one knows commercials, no one cares. Also, thanks for telling me. Yeah, exactly, all right, so everyone knows a couple of things Adam and I are are continuing are Paul Thomas Anderson series were almost done for now at least. Uh, you know, when he hits his next movie comes out, we'll make a special episode for that, right, Absolutely, we should keep it up. As long as he's making movies,

we'll keep doing these PTA meetings. Yeah, but we'll have to, Like, I don't want to wait justin do a podcast with you every three years, so you'll have to pick someone else another theme out. I like you tried to do a bunch of research before stepping up to the mic for these shows, and I had thought that, like in every in every article about Paul Thomas Anderson, he always manages to sprinkle in his influences or his favorite movies at the moment or whatever. Maybe we should do a

series that's just on his influences. Oh, like films are filmmakers are both? Ye? Both? I think that would spreadsheet, That would that would send us down a pretty fun path. I think I love it, And in a way, we're still honoring the master. I don't need much of a reason to keep doing shows with you, Chuck, No, I know. Uh. And the other thing that you know that we do.

Part two of that opening statement was that Adam and I always take this time to just fellowship with one another, be with each other because we're close friends who miss each other and love each other. And we share a drink together. And Adam, what are you drinking tonight? I am drinking a just a a classic show drink that Ben and I have when we're out doing live shows

for the greatest gen. Just a junk tequila soda, just probably a triple Okay, I'm drinking the un organic blanco to you learn here, and little soda and like a little lime or not, Yeah, a little soda, little lime, But it is like it's three quarters tequila one quarter soda. You know the ratio we've had these together. Yeah, that's a very clean, nice drink, I think. Yeah, yeah, a lot of ice, biggest cup you got that kind of love it. Yeah, it's good. So I'm drinking a martini.

How I drink my martinis, which is slightly different in one way than a lot of people. I have a gin martini. Obviously obvious, it's a martini. Have it up obviously. Uh, this is Farmer's botanical gin. And I'm using I like a dirty martini and instead of using the olive juice from a jar. I have you ever heard of Dirty Sue? No, but I'm looking it up right now. Yeah, so actually not look up Dirty Sue. I'm gonna wait, why did that website? Why did that? You are l auto load?

What's going on? It's already bookmarked? So it's a dirty Sue? Is it's a company that makes um I don't it's not alive juice, obviously, alive brine or whatever in a bottle. I'm seeing it pack of four and I get that because I don't need olives. And that's the weird thing. I like dirty Martini, but I don't like olive. So what I do, as you'll see my friend is I do a dirty Martini with the lemon twist and it's really nice to me. The citrus in the salt works.

I've gotten a lot of side eyes from bartenders. Uh, but I love it. That's how I have mar Martini and it's really delicious. So does that have a name, just the brine and the twist, but not the olives themselves. It feels like, I don't think so it's called the Chuckini. The chuck the chuck tiny chuck teeny sounds delicious. I like it. Don't let me have another one. We haven't started talking about the movie yet. A friend of mine made me a martini, also with gin. We're in Texas.

I should I should mention this. That's the most important part of this story. Friend from Texas makes me a martini. And on the skewer is a halapano a pickled halipano. Ah also very briny, and that in that pickled talipano, Brian, I mean, the it was, but it was, but it worked something. In the hot margarita, yeah, it's the only one I've ever had. I had not thought to make one for myself. Very interesting. Yeah, and everything comes with the Halapano in Texas. I guess, yeah, I guess. So

I know they put him in the Bloody Mary's. Yeah, yeah, with a big fucking piece of bacon too much. I just want a little bloody Mary. Is that? Why is that suddenly off the menu? It feels like when you get a bloody Mary, it comes in a fucking growler with a sandwich like stabbed to the top of it. I don't I don't need that much of anything. Now I'm with you. I'm a I'm a one bloody IM make a good bloody Mary too. We should try that

next time you guys come and stay with me. Let's do that for sure, and go to the lake, which I miss. Uh. This makes me think a Hodgman though, because I don't drink. It's onto martinis. But whenever Hodgeman is in town, especially when he stays with us, I'm doing a lot of martini stirring for the two of us. I love that about hanging out with him. Yeah, he's

a gin man like me. Really is, alright, dude, So we are tackling inherent vice, which, as you know, is a movie that I had never seen until today, which uh, I think I explained it briefly, but the deal was is when it came out, and it's still weird that I didn't see it. I heard such negative things from people I know personally that I didn't want to do it. I didn't want to see a bad Paul Thomas Anderson movie.

And then it kind of just slipped off my radar because I could see that wearing off and then me wanting to see it. But I kind of just forgot about it to a certain degree, and that's my reason. I think it's a great reason I have been Opening Night Paul Thomas Anderson guy for his entire ave, not for this movie, for the same reason I kicked the can down the road a little bit. I didn't want

to have my heartbroken. And then I started to hear some more favorable things from you know how you have like your main filmmaking friends that you you really trust their opinions, and then they're like the tertiar area ones that are like, well, they're kind of their coin flip friends.

You can take their opinions or leave them. And I started to hear more and more positive from from that group, and that's what got me into the theater a couple of weeks maybe after it had been out, and that that had been enough time to empty out the theater and give me a nice private showing. At least it felt that way, And that's how I said. So I did see it in its in its theatrical run, but well I will say this too and looking through, Um, I watched it today then kind of did some research

on it and read a number of reviews. And most of the reviews I read, which were you know, the majors, were pretty positive, and I was kind of like, I thought, I remembered this getting panned, but it didn't at all like it was. It wasn't like they didn't put it up there with their Will Be Blood, but they were pretty good reviews. Yeah, I had the same experience. It's weird how our own personal memory of things at the time didn't hold up. Weird, right, yeah, I think. So,

So where are you now with this movie? Like before we kind of dig in, like what's your what's your rating or what's your rating system for this? Are we cutting to the end right now? Well? I mean this is for the listeners who don't listen to Friendly Fire every week they rate, actually rate their movies at the end, but it's a rating some system composed by Adam specific to the film, So like five you know sticks a dynamite if it's a movie that has dynamite or whatever,

So can you do one on the fly? Oh? Shoot, you know. I mean this is a comedy first and foremost.

I think everyone knows that. I think. Uh, I think if I were to assign an object to the rating system, to construct a rating system out of, it would be from the funniest moment of the film to me, which is which is when Jenna Malone's character shows the picture knew you were going to say that of her daughter to Joaquin Phoenix and that takes like a heroine baby, right, Yeah, And the take that he does off of looking at

that picture is everything to me. And I think it's going to be one to five pictures pictures of Jenna Malone's daughter. That's so funny, dude, because as you started, I started thinking about what is Adam going to choose, and the first thing that popped into my head was one to five scary baby pictures. Yeah. I just really like the suitcase from Pulp Fiction moment in this film, I wanted to keep going and see that he wanted to see that baby picture. Yeah, so bad. That's an

interesting take by Joaquin Phoenix there. And I saw a couple of reviews said, like, the one big misstep was that kind of out of place reaction. So some people did not like that, Oh that it was it was too prep broad. Yeah, I think so this is a film. I think that, like through its entire run time makes you wonder what is real and what isn't though, And and that that's a take that is brought enough for me to wonder if it even happened, you know, like

in that moment. I think that's the idea, isn't it. Because Jenna Malone doesn't react to him. That's just alright talking about this, Give me your number, go ahead and rank it, because I don't I want to start. I have a feeling I'm gonna like this movie more after I talk to you about all this ship so wonderfive baby Pictures. The thing about the friendly Fire custom rating system being as customed as it is is it forces

you not to compare war films to other war films. Yeah, you can't compare this to other Paul Thomas Anderson movies then exactly. So I'm gonna give it three messed up baby pictures, Okay, but I think I can't help but compare this to other Paul Thomus Anderson films, and that's what gives it the three out of five. Yeah, yeah, all right, I give it. Oh boy, that is tough.

I'm gonna give it two and a half, and I think I could inch toward three by the end of this conversation because I know that you're gonna have a take that I'll appreciate. Movie crush inflation is a thing that happens throughout the course of our conversation, and I could see that too. It really is. I mean, well, I'm not gonna name names, but you know when someone picks out their favorite movie and you really didn't like it.

It's a challenging episode that hasn't happened much. But I try to find something in every movie because it's no fun to listen to it if I'm like, I thought that part sucked, right, and someone else really likes it. Look at you keeping the listener in mind. I know, but I like that. It's not like I'm faking it or anything. It's only happened like once or twice where I was like, I didn't really like this movie. Well, I you and I are looking at each other during

using using the video conference technology. I have not seen you do the jack off hand motion yet so or the things are going great or the insert frozen chocolate banana in my mouth move. Yeah, that's what I thought was the funniest part of this movie was Josh Brolan filating himself and just Josh Brolan's character, I mean Bigfoot. It seemed like a Tarantino character. It was really really great.

I thought he was very very funny. I mean you evoking tarantinos An made me think a lot about Once upon a Time in Hollywood and it maybe recency bot, but it definitely felt like these are two, uh two films on the same track a little bit. Now. I totally got that vibe, a little Lebowski vibe. It's like if they took the Big Sleep or in any sort of early uh you know, Private Dick story married it with like a Lebowski and Once upon a Time in Hollywood, but with some pt Anderson in there, like I think

part of the thing. Well, first of all, I guess I should rate it. No, I did two and a half stars, but that's that doesn't mean I didn't like it. Like part of it was confusion on my part. For a lot of the first hour or so of it doesn't feel like a Paul Thomas Anderson movie, So I'm a little bit confused. You can tell it wasn't an original work by him, and uh and totally I didn't know what to think of because I hadn't read a

lot about it. It's weird to watch a Paul Thomas Anderson film that doesn't make me feel like I need

to cry at any point for some reason. And I think I think that comes from what you're describing, like that he didn't write it himself, or it's an adapted screenplay or whatever it's it's based on a on another person's works, on very faithful Supposedly, I feel like there's something about PTA's own writing that has that ability to like just reach inside my chest and start sucking around that this one was incapable of or unwilling to do.

But that might just be a genre thing, right, Like I wish I had some examples of this, But does every great filmmaker have their attempt at doing a Coen Brothers film, Like like do they all just want to try to do one? This feels like that. This feels like a Cohen Brothers film in a lot of ways to totally uh with because it's a it's a kind of humor I think that the Cohen Brothers like to use which is not so obvious, mean, unless it's like a brother Ward that I was pretty broad, but generally

it's like should I be laughing at this? Like this is funny to me? It's characters and situations that maybe shouldn't be funny, but it is right Yeah, that it's the it's the absurd type of comedy in this one. And the comparison to Big Lebowski and like Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas is is right there. And I'm gonna try during our conversation not to make that comparison.

It just feels really easy. I wonder if, like casting Joaquin Phoenix as the main character here made me think a lot about how crucial that decision is in making

a film like this hit that pleasure center. And there's something about like a Jeff Bridges that has like like that core that is that is gentle and kind, like you never feel threatened by the big Lebowski, by by that character where Joaquin Phoenix like as dopey and doped up and as he is in this film, like there's something inside him as an actor that feels unsafe in a way that that that colored this movie a little bit for me, Like I couldn't get all the way

cheech and charmed with him because it's because of him. Yeah, yeah, now I'm with you. It was I'm glad you said that because I couldn't quite put my finger on it. Like Lebowski, you love the dude. Most people love the dude. I know some wives that are annoyed by the dude, but most people love the dude, extremely endearing character, and you're really emotionally even though it's a silly movie emotionally on his side. It's harder to get there with Doc Uh.

He's likable a little bit, but he's not the dude. He's not over endearing. He hints at it though, like you want to really like him, but you're just sort of for me at least, I was just kind of more watching this character than investing in this character. I couldn't be sure he was a good person in the way I was pretty confident Lebowski was. Yeah, totally. It

was a little more uh like Lebowski. And maybe it's because Lebowski actually talks about his past being a uh, you know, democratic protester and sort of radical left and maybe that has a bias with us. I don't know, because part of the thing is, I think what is I didn't really know anything about Doc. He worked at Doctor's office. There was a lot of mystery to it, which is kind of cool, but we don't learn a

ton about his backstory. Yeah, I think it's a film that really depends on the amount of empathy you can conjure up for someone who's heartbroken like his We all know, and I think we have been personally someone who has uh, who has allowed for someone else to have the kind of power over them the way that that the Katherine Waterson character has over walking Phoenix, Like there's something sympathetic

about that. But you really needed to work for you big time, I think for you to come around on rooting for Doc throughout the film versus just going sitting next to Doc in that and that first trolley car on the ride. That is this movie. You know. Yeah, I guess that's where I was, because I never really felt like he was heartbroken. Yeah, he maybe because he was just such a stoner. I don't know. He seemed kind of nonplussed about everything. But I liked him, I did. Yeah,

I liked him, but I did not love him. Yeah. He pronounces Dinus one of the great uh this kind of uh nonverbal side stoner characters in movie history. And yeah, presented without explanation throughout the film. He's just there. He's just sort of his lackey. You get the feeling he does not get paid any money or anything. I love a wheelman in in a heist film or in any other kind of film. So I expected Denis to die at any moment. I kind of did too. Yeah, it's funny. Uh,

And you know, the acting was great. I mean, right after The Master two put Walking Phoenix in such a different kind of costume was pretty interesting, I think. Um, And like I said, I like the guy. It was just a hard character to really get behind in Root for Yeah for me, the film also never gives you a chance to miss him because you were always with him in every single scene. Right. Yeah, he really is,

isn't he? Yeah, yeah, and I kind of I can appreciate cutting away a little bit to get that whatever happened to Doc? You never asked that question in this movie because you're always with him, right and as he why is he working a doctor's office? Kind of Yeah, what kind of person goes to see him as a doctor?

I guess someone wants to hit the tank. They had that great Uh, he had that great part which a little nod to his wife when you know my Rudolph was playing the receptionist and he uh threw down a mini Rippertson music que right after a scene with with my That was not great song too, that is that's one of those perfect closing the loop moments in a movie that, yeah, you just have to live for. The music was great, I mean it was Uh Johnny Green went again with the score. But the the I mean

he's always going to have great soundtracks. But all that Neil young Man and yeah, not Neil Youngman. That was a different guy, Neil Youngman, so good Man right up my alley. Yeah. Yeah, it definitely made me want to put on the Harvest record just to chill out. Gotta love that song. Um, well, let's talk about the setting. I mean there's I think it's no accident that it

was seventy and not or seventy six. U that weird time at the beginning of the seventies, I think, where the the sixties didn't quite work out like everyone thought in the you know, sort of end of the that feeling in a lot of ways, but before before the

seven and he's really sort of started leaking in. And also some really weird holdouts like Josh Brolin, like these kind of late fifties early sixties guys that were still in seventy wearing the flat top and buttoned up like that interesting time period, it really is, And and so many references to Manson in in the film too. Cults. Yeah, yeah, a lot of that. I can't imagine what it was like too to live in California at the time. Yeah, and it's interesting too because Boogie Nights, I guess they

did the switch from the seventies to the eighties that part. Yeah, yeah, you hear my dogs. They're having a great time. They are, We'll just leave that in. They're parking at somebody, which they do all the time. Uh. But yeah, the acting is great. At mean, he's awesome. I thought the one character that I thought was that he didn't do a lot with, but maybe that was just the point. Was Benicio del Toro's character. But it's weird to cast him if you're not going to really like fucking make a

weird character. That felt very uh self aware, And by that I mean you don't want to have him be the same person he was in Fear and Loathing like The Help, Crazy Attorney, and as soon as he introduced himself, you feel like that's the direction that this could go. But he's in it very few times. Yeah, yeah, I mean under used. For sure. Reese Withinerspoon was good. I did not expect to know that Martin Short was in this movie. Yeah, and I was really really delighted when

he came walking stepped off that elevator. Elevator I want, that's so bad. Yeah, that opens I've always want an elevator that and right into your apartment. Yeah that's amazing. That's how you know you've made it. Yeah, for sure, Um, he was great and it made me wonder why he isn't used more like that. I agree, Yeah, he should be in every movie, like so many comics, like there's there's like that that heart of darkness to them that

that translates so well to film. Yeah, it's a treat for a Martin Short fan to to see him in this. But it's but even if you don't know who he is or why he's important, like, I think you can sense that that darkness inside that that really works. He's really great. That scene was really funny. Yeah, and that that whole part was a bit of a diversion. I guess they bring and the names in this are great.

I guess those are all straight from the book, but I guess the Japonica thing sort of comes up there and that does have a thread to the overall plot. But I think it was definitely a little bit of fun they were just having with Martin Short and that character. Do you think the names were one of the things that uh that professional film reviewers had a hard time with, because like a lot of the lot of the reviews for this film had to do with it's it's coherence

or incoherence as a story. As I was watching it, the thing that struck me most was I'm not I am the person who gets introduced to people at parties that forgets your name as soon as you say it. No, that's me too. And so as I was being taken through this film, we're hearing about so many characters just by their name by by two different people having a

conversation about a third person. And this is a thing that happens over and over in this film, to the extent that by the time we meet that person, I'm working it out in my head where I've heard that name before, instead of placing myself in the scene in a way I like to be interesting. And that made it hard to hold the story together when I'm when I'm constantly trying to to place a face to a name that I've heard. It's it's a tough movie to follow.

I mean, I did read stuff that said it. You know, it really helps if you've read the book. I kind of want to read it now. I've never read anything by him, and I did a little research on him. I didn't know that really anything so about his reclusive nature and all that stuff, and it definitely piqued my interest to check it out. But that's just a literary hole that I've got. It's I have the same one.

We have the same holes we do. I always knew that. Yeah, yeah, I think he's supposedly in the movie as a cameo, but P. T Anderson has not. He's sort of half denied it and hasn't really said one way or the other that he's one of the guys under the hood in that in that meeting on the compound, the wo woo meeting outside. Okay, that'd be a good place for him, I think, because you don't see too many phases besides Owen Wilson's and that guy with the swastika face tattoo.

I bet, I bet they got him in that room and and just probably shut him up a little bit. I don't know where else would be unless it was just I don't know, unless say it was just some weird, random background, which would be a kind of a strange thing to do. I mean, I know it's unusual that he even agreed to have one of his books made into a movie, so it wouldn't surprise me if he's

snuck in there. Um denis got that guy. I mean, I thought all the like, there was so much uh and and and it's not over acting at all, I think, just so much. So many of these small roles. They were just sort of chewing through those scenes and a really kind of big fun way, and like that's what I appreciated about it, Like when they went and saw his wife, When they went and saw the Wolfman's wife, Uh, and you know, she was dulled up in the high

heels and bathing suit and does her interview. Like what, she doesn't put on a little bathing suit robe. She just does an interview on the couch and that her personal advisor or whatever comes in and he's just like, you know, juiced up model. You know, I really appreciated that. That was very Cohen's Brothers to me. One of my favorite lines of dialogue or exchanges in this movie is in that scene where Doc is like, how do you do? And that guy in the yellow trunks is like pleasurable? Yeah.

I thought at first we were never gonna see his face because it just rangs in between like his picks and his you know, like a little bit of a mupp at Babies moment where we were just going to see legs the entire scene. Man and uh, Owen Will's was good too. I mean he was do your own Wilson impression. Wow, I love it. It's a one word impression. There are more words and a few of many other impressions.

He was good though. I liked him. I like seeing him muse like this, which was kind of a small part. And uh, he didn't have to be like Owen Wilson for a second. Yeah, it's interesting to see like some Wes Anderson to Paul Thomas Anderson crossover, you know, like this this was This was a film that p t A like did not use his his players for in an interesting way. And I mean, I guess Joaquin was a repeat was anyone else, right, But I don't think anyone else was, man, I don't think so. Yeah, that

is crazy. Yeah that's a conscious choice. But it's neat to to see him play with other crayons, you know. And and I think you're right Owen Wilson's usage here it was really interesting. And he got to get big two, like when he was in that at that Nixon rally. That was fun. They did a little Forrest Gump moment. Yeah, that was pretty funny. That was a looked really good. Forrest Gump looks so much better these days. If they tried to do that, This film looked great. Yeah, for

what it was trying to do. Like I I got the Apple TV version like the four K version of it, yea. And god it really looked period, you know, did it looked sun drenched? L A. And now that you're there, you know, you get you've had enough of that to know to the extent that it was like muddy sometimes in some scenes, Like it wasn't a super crisp digital looking film at all. It was it was really really

satisfying visually. Yeah, and it was what's his face again, right it Bob Ellswitt, right, yeah, yeah, he is the man um. I was listening to a podcast where Aaron Rodgers was the guest. Aaron Rodgers the quarterback for the Green Bay Packers. Interesting, he mentioned that he was in a state farm commercial and could you guess who was on camera for the state farm commercial? Bob Ellswit. Bob

fucking Elswit. Can you believe that I can, dude, because I used to work on TV commercials and you know, I worked on a commercial with Tony Scott and Michael Bay And like that's the same with dps. They they it's quick, fucking fat money. Yeah, Like Bob Ellswit is getting his rate. It's probably making more per day mad than he is. Any movie. Gotta be and and not having to go far from home. It was great about this interview with Aaron Rodgers with it he could appreciate it.

He was like, people who show up for State Farm commercials probably don't reckon Nys the guy like you see the white hair, you see him behind the camera, you know who that is. But Aaron Rodgers as Aaron Rodgers is a film nerd, like it was. It was awesome to hear him geek out about Robert Ellswood on a State Farm commercial. But I didn't know, Oh, you're a packers guy. Yeah, that's right. I forgot about us watching

that game in San Francisco. That's right at the wine bar, get the wine, getting wine smashed yep in the afternoon. We all kinds of smashed you and me. Um yeah. I mean it's like Robert Ellswood. He gets the call and he's like, do you want to make you want to go shoot a State Farm commercial with Aaron Rodgers and make dollars over the next four days? What's your answer? Of course, I don't between film jobs. You know, that's

just great money. Do you really have a lot of confidence that you're paying the least in premiums when you're insured company was paying, but they will switch to shoot the commercials. Yeah they could. You could have shot that commercial. Yeah, and I'm not using you. It was like no, yeah

or anything. No. Um. The one thing that cracked me up about the own Wilson character was when gener Malone was talking about their relationship in the past and he was a surf sax player who actually played solos right, improvised solos. That's great. I didn't quite recognize her at first for some reason, even though it totally looks like genlem alone. I think I just hadn't seen her in

a while. Maybe it's funny how like how the right prosthetic can really blow your mind about a recognizable actress, Like like the forehead that Charlie's throne War and Monster makes her look unrecognizable, but the teeth in Gena Malone's mouth make her look unrecognized. Bowl were those fake because of her drawing attention to him? Was that the deal? I mean, I hope so now that I've said something like that about her teeth, but pretty big I'm looking

at I think it's an appliance. It's gotta be uh. And then we had Joanna Newsome in there in a yeah, kind of an interesting role, Like, so what's your what's this whole thing about? Does she exist? Well, now, I thought you said at the beginning, or maybe you're talking about something else that some parts of this movie really didn't even think happened. I wasn't thinking about it in terms of her character as the omniscient narrator. But I think that's a great film paper. Okay, I think that

really works. I mean, you don't see her interact. Well, I guess she's in that first pizza pizza parlor scene with a group of other people. What I was talking about specifically was was in an example of it was that take that Doc had looking at the picture. Was the questionable reality that existed that Doc lived in throughout the film, Like are these things actually happening? Are these

outbursts actually happening? Are there actually, you know, a hundred cops crawling through the desert outside of the brothel, like like are these things real? And a lot of the visual gags that that we're told exists in this film, like are those real? Now? Did you cook this up? Or is this this a popular you know, online theory. I'm I'm bouncing this off of you in the moment. Okay, let's work and if it plays, I never thought about it.

I mean, I mean, I suppose that adds. Your contribution to this hypothesis is all about that Joanna Knewsome character that I didn't even well wait until you brought it up that she may not be real. You just mentioned who all did she was she with besides Joaquin? I mean, I the you seen I remember her interacting with other people was in that pizza parlor scene in the beginning, right after Shasta shows up for the first time, like

where Doc goes to chill out after that initial interaction. Well, I will say this, I mean, I think it was kind of a smart move um and slightly necessary to kind of it's confusing story. She helps orient the story a bit and uh and and that stuff is pulled straight from the book. So I think people like fans of his work of the book, I think probably appreciate

the you know, the verbatim h narration. I think you really need her in this movie to keep us as as grounded as we are in in our understanding of the story. I think without her it's I won't say it's a mess, but I think it's it's that much more difficult to comprehend what's going on without her. It is messier. Yeah, for sure, she's great as everyone else is in this movie. Like she's not in this film a bunch, but she's memorable and really good. Yeah, so

is Rhese Witherspoon. It was cool seeing her in a role like this. I think um Erica Roberts is has has like a centerpiece scene like like shot from below, like one of the most unflattering angles at any actor. He's able to pull off because he's Eric Roberts and he just owns that moment. God, that was that was great. I'm also an old fan of Martin Donovan from the Hal Hartley days, and to see him come in as uh Japonica's dad at the end was pretty great. And

Atrian Prussia, these names were so good. Yeah, I mean things got really weird there toward the end. Uh. You know, it took me in a while to even figure out I was watching a comedy. It might have behooved me to read more about it beforehand, because totally I just didn't get it because it was P. T. Anderson. And then the more I started to kind of get it, and feel it. I think it's a movie that I would like more of the second time. Totally. This was my second time, and I liked it a lot more

than the first time I saw it. Yeah. Yeah, And it all goes back to that. I mean there's an unfortunately, I think there's an expectation with Paul Thomas Anderson films where it's going to it's going to get inside and it's gonna mess you up, at least if you're me. And I kept waiting for that that inflection point where where Doc is so traumatized that that it's super affecting. But but that's not what this film is about now, And there's not a father son sort of mentor character

like he's he's really known for. Uh. I guess it does have a little to do with family and that he's trying to reunite, which you aren't even super clear until the end actually that he has this sort of drive to reunite uh Owen Wilson with jenlem alone and daughter. Yeah, that's that's the punctuation on the film, is that that shot that just hangs on Doc in the car. It's

really sweet too. Yeah, yeah, it really was. You can get that great scene afterwards to the last scene with Brolin when he kicks in the fucking door, sits down and starts eating that big fucking tray of weed. Oh my god, that was so great. I thought so much about, Like my my production brain was totally activated in that moment because as as you as I know you thought about, like how when he takes do you get for for

a scene that's messy? Is a thought like because the resets awful, but also like the details of Josh Brolin's lower lip going going above the bowl, Like you have to direct that right because you're behind the camera and you're like cheat to the camera a little bit with that lower lip. Josh, like, really emphasize the lip get up under that bowl for hut. It's like the cinnamon challenge. I don't know how Josh Brolin does that without coughing

or coughing and laughing or what have you. And that seems to be like that's not something you talk about when you talk about great actors, like their their ability to not funk up a scene like that. But I think it's a quality of great actors to not break when your mouth is filled with a regano and you get a bowl up to your face. It's such a great moment for him. He's awesome. He's so funny. I mean, he's he's got the funniest scenes in the movie. I

think there's that scene. There's the one where he gets just browbeated by his wife. She just comes in and owns him. She's calling him Christian, like you don't even know his name until that part of the movie, and then like calling him what he is, like, don't walk away from me like a beaten dog. Yeah, currently only after one night a week out of you. And then the scene in the Asian diner or whatever. The pancakes scene is vectacular for pincakes. He's help me understand this scene.

Is he getting green onion pancakes or is he getting pancakes with syrup, like like from a diner. I got the feeling that they were Asian pancakes, right, I yeah, I mean it's clearly a Japanese restaurant or whatever, like, because there's there's stuff on the walls that indicate that. Yeah, although he said his mom made him, but he's dipping them into what looks like a diner style ramikin of syrup. So it's so confusing. What's happening there? Yeah, that was

really funny. He talked about being there for the respect or whatever. Yeah. Uh. And then the scene where he gets and this is one an upsetting amount of Japanese pancakes easy, um, the ones, you know. That was really funny and and sort of confused me a little bit.

But now that I fully embraced it as a comedy, I think that's just what it was, which was when after Dot goes and visits with Wolfman's wife at that party and he's in that suit with a wig on, he comes out and just runs on top of the police car, Yeah, and gets that really funny slow mo beat down, Like what was that? I think that's another bit of surrealism that that to me felt like it may or may not be happening. It may just feel like it may just look like what it feels like

to Dock instead of what it actually is. I like this read I'm gonna have to watch this again. Yeah, it had to be fun for an actor to get that physical, and it had to be fun as a character to to give that kind of double middle fingers too to Bigfoot, like I'm gonna throw myself up onto the hood of your car, you fucking asshole, Like you're not gonna do it to me, I'm gonna do it to myself. Yeah. There are a lot of middle fingers

to the Yeah, they turn it around. Yeah. And the girl at the end with the which I thought was great, that ending bit with when they had to exchange the drugs and they send this like nuclear family and a wooded station wagon and the girl just flicks them off

at the end. That was big fun. I like that that composition, it's almost it's almost Western film genre composition, Like the super long lens facing off like in profile of the car and the characters, and it makes that like sears or whatever in the background looked just monolithic back there, like that a fucking shopping mall in the valley, just looking imposing and dangerous. Yeah. I think it's a

sneakily good looking film. But when you're used to Paul Thomas Anderson's showy nous, which I like, with the camera and just sort of known for doing those big camera moves are really complicated, long camera moves. There's not a ton of that in here. A lot of close ups, a lot of actors without a ton of makeup on, like a lot of unkind sort of real close ups. I mean, you're definitely spoiled with his films because there are some really long sequences without cuts that I don't

think you notice until they're over. You don't appreciate them until they're done, because it just comes with the package. Yeah, Like, we're spoiled with with this filmmaker in that way. And I mean they're no less enjoyable, but but they don't stick out in a way that they might in another film because it just comes with the territory. Yeah. I mean, certainly some beautiful shots though, uh that just that opening bit with her the sunlight behind her hair beaming around

her hair was just gorgeous. And there are a couple of shots towards the end that are really really pretty um but it never felt like I don't know, I think when you're shooting southern California like that, you can kind of lean into that a little too much and rely on that a little too much because you get these great sunsets all the time and these great blue skies. But in that New York as a character in the film kind of way for l A. Yeah, and I think I think it was Jared. Yeah, Like, I don't

think he's trying to show off too much here visually. No, And I think he got those reps in in in Boogie Nights and and several other films set in southern California. You know, Yeah, it's not really what this is about. Yeah, it is beautiful though. It's so much beach eat than any other pol Thomas Anderson film, and that's enjoyable. Yeah, I mean, I can't wait for this next thing he's doing, the high school kid in the seventies. Yeah, yeah, I think they just wrapped at the time of this recording.

That's great, which is something to look forward to in the new year. Absolutely. Um. Another thing I thought was really kind of funny and interesting. I guess it's a book thing too, was how the doc is just like he's just collecting cases basically, Like it feels like every other person he meets is like, hey, I need you to need you to find some out something about somebody for me. At a certain point in the film him, I was like, they never talked about money, what is

he doing? Eventually they do, but it is really that that kind of film where he's just sort of a baton that's being passed among suspects in this crime ring, and it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger. But like the contract employee and me is always like, you're not making this official, man, You're gonna get screwed. What's going on? Yeah, I mean his whole business is a little mysterious and that you never hear about money at all.

And then also he's just sort of like he didn't Paul Thomas Anderson didn't do the thing where he's sort of the stoner detective, but he's a super genius stoner detective. But he's also not a dumbass who just like very broadly stumbles upon every clue. It was this weird middle cround, which kind of made it another ambiguity of the character that was hard to too because I think we're so used to one or the other. That's a great point, Like there's a passivity to Doc's character where he just

kind of floats. Yeah, he gets very little agency throughout this case. He very naturally follows things in a linear fashion and never really breaks anything for himself due to his own intelligence. And I wonder if that's one of the like to the extent that there's a problem with generating empathy for him as a as a heroic figure in the film. Like I wonder if that's part of it, is that, like he doesn't do anything great enough for us to respect right and and see him in that way.

Is this Fletch that's the comp right there? Is this Fletch means big Lebowski. Yeah, it's not really Fletch, but I mean it's not not Fletch. It's not not Fletch. Those mutton chops, man, I'll take those all day long, so big, Like you get the sense that he's gonna start, that he's gonna solve it, but not in some like he never even remarks about figuring anything out. Like usually in a movie like this, there's like several aha moments, and you're right, he just is really just sort of

bouncing around. I love how there's no costume change that covers for the mutton chops. Like I think there's a scene where he's like, well, what's the dress code at the restaurant and the guy's like, well, coat and tie if you've got it, but like there's no nothing's going to cover up those chops. No, And I think his look is like I think he in Brolin's character and in Bigfoot were these weird two sides of the same coin. Like, it wouldn't have surprised me if at the end of

this movie they're revealed to be brothers or something. Yeah, were you wanting or expecting that epiphany at the end, like all of this was going to come to a point, a satisfying point at the end of the story that made it all make sense. The epiphany of of reuniting Owen Wilson or or with Shasta, either or both or neither, like something else like you're talking about, like like the revelation of a character like that, that that he and

the Josh Brolin character brothers or whatever. It could be a version of this, but like the the mental explosion, the mental climax that often comes at the end of a movie that you don't quite understand until it's conclusion. You know, you know, I thought this movie didn't have the strongest finale. Uh, what do you think? It's unfair too? It's unfair to Paul Thomas Anderson to heap like using his previous work as a sm measurement for what he's doing.

But it's easy to make that the answer to a question like this, right, like at the conclusion of Let's Do This Together, because I did not prepare to have this conversation in this way. But like at the end of Heart eight, it's Sydney looking down at the at the bloody shirt sleeve, like we get we get a nice tight conclusion there. In Boogie Nights, it's it's Mark Wahlberg's giant dick at the end, you know, before we did shoot out and shoot another movie, he's back in

the game. The mirror monologue. In Magnolia, it's it's Officer Jim talking to me, Laura Walters. We get that tidy ending. It's there will be blood. It's it's a bowling pin like that. Like his films tend to come to a conclusion that is like a really tight bow Yeah. And that's another quality of this film that just feels different. Mm hmm, because it doesn't it just kind of breathes. Yeah. I mean, I think more than anything, it felt just

very obviously like an adaptation. Um. I want like we don't know him, but I want him to be able to do stuff like this. I want a creator to get the satisfaction of dabbling. Yeah. Yeah, without without two assholes like us criticizing him for it, you know, like I mean, if this is his worst movie, like you're doing pretty great, yeah you absolutely, Yeah, And I want I want creators that I like and respect to be

able to stretch in this way. And like, what other type of career is there where you're able to do this, you know, where you're able to get weird and then maybe come back if you want to, or go in a different direction like this is this is part of a creative persian's life to get a rep like this and I and I'm just like reluctant to criticize it too harshly because it's just not what I was expecting

or somebody has made previously. Yeah, because he made all these movies is great, run these really big, sweeping, like tough stories, and this is a long movie too. But it's my own ship that I just want to be hurt by his movies, Like right, that's my problem. It's not his fault. It was an artist going like, yeah, you know what, I want to try something different this

time out. Yeah. Yeah, Like I'll always take that and they and they deserve that if it takes that to keep a great filmmaker working instead of getting bored and retiring, Like, give me ten avies easily if it Yeah, if it keeps giving us the occasional there will be blood or a boogie knights or whatever, like like you bought it paid for. No, for sure, I definitely want to see

it again. It's a movie I did enjoy to a certain degree, and I think now tone that we've talked, like, I won't spend the first hour wondering if it's a comedy, so I can really start relishing in the comedy that can really drive a viewer into the ditch. That that that translation of expecting a genre and getting a different one, Like it's hard to recover from that mid movie. Yeah, I mean Punch Drunk Love. He definitely went down a different tonal path. But I think I got that one

a little quicker. But it's still sort of like this in that you know, he's he's an ambiguous guy when it comes to this kind of tone, He's not. You didn't go straight up bra and make it very obviously a comedy, which can be I think he likes clearly likes to make viewers uncomfortable, or else he wouldn't make movies like The Master or There Will be Blood, So

maybe this is just another kind of version of that. Yeah, we're really exploring the space of discomfort in in this three film series, right, Yeah, this one's there's a bit of discomfort in Like what exactly am I watching here? Yeah, it's it's a film that I like more for having had this conversation, for sure. Yeah. Absolutely, I'm up to three uh weird baby pictures. Hey there you go? Are you three and a half? You sold three? Oh? I'm at three and a half sun Okay, all right, that

might be the three and a half tequila SODA's talking. Well, all right, dude, you got anything else? No, I don't think I do. I love great. I love this film festival we're doing and I and I'm grateful and excited that there are more films being added to this list, Like yeah, I was so happy to see that they were in production on another p t A film and then it wasn't going to be a five year break

or whatever. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And we get Phantom Thread next, which it's a movie I liked a lot and I only saw once and I can't wait to see it again. Oh good, Yeah, I've seen it a couple of times, and I like it a whole bunch really cool. All right, my friend, Uh, well that wraps for this one. We'll take care of that. The new pt Anderson. Obviously, you and I love your idea about diving, keeping it p t A adjacent and diving into his, his mentors and inspirations.

Whatever it keeps us doing this thing of ours. I'm all for it. Where we could just do flench. Let's do fletch before we do the other thing. Okay, just stick there and stick it there in the middle, the fletch into regnum. Let's do it, all right, Thanks dude. Everyone check out Friendly Fire, Greatest gin and greatest Discovery. Yeah yeah, taste. Uh follow you where, follow me on Twitter at cut for time and that's that's pretty much it. All right, We'll see you later, dude, see you a check. Movie.

Crash is produced and written by Charles Bryant and Meel Brown, edited and engineered by Seth Nicholas Johnson, and scored by Meel Brown here in our home studio at Pontsty Market, Atlanta, Georgia. For I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.