Film Series: Matt Frederick on The Fisher King

you need one. Wait, I thought the world ended. Hold on, wait a minute. I know we're still going somehow, but it's so we're not far away. Well, welcome back to the show. Brother. It's been a while. It's funny. When we went into lockdown, I sort of got into a rotation of people and then something was missing and it was you stuff. I'm not sure what happened. It just sort of fell off my radar. And then I was like, wait a minute, Maddie, what happened? We were we were

on a roll there. It's all good man, you know, we we really milked for all that it was worth. Actually that's not true. There's so many other We'll go back there, but yeah, we're we're definitely. I missed it a lot, hanging out with you mostly, but also just getting to talk about a movie like for a while. I don't do that ever. Nobody talks with me about movies and so for you, so thank you. Well you're

back in the rotation. So uh, we decided or you decided to jump back to yea for a movie that I loved and of called The Fisher King from director Terry Gilliam. Um, he did not write this one, though. I think this is the first movie that he did not write that he directed. Right. Yeah, it was written by Richard la Gravants. Gravents. I don't know how to say it correctly. Um, an excellent writer, just prolific wrote Parisia, tem The Horse Whisper, a bunch of other movies that

you know about. Yeah, he's It's funny. I looked him up because I've never heard of him, and I was trying to think of a way to describe his career

without sounding like an insult. But you know all those movies over the years that are big movies that you know, but are sort of just uh, they're kind of nondescript in that there's not because he's directed some of these two but nondescript, and that he's one of these directors it seems like and writer that just sort of writes movies and that it's not like this has a real Richard uh like greben As feel to it. But they're a just a lot of big movies in here, living

out loud, the ref unstrung heroes. He wrote Bridges of Madison County, The Mirror has two faces, beloved freedom writers. I think, yeah, Water for Elephants. I mean, these are all like big big He's had a huge career because I was like when I first saw his name, I was like that she he's one of these guys that wrote one movie that he and and then went away. But that is just not true at all. But the fact that he wrote all those movies and then he

wrote this movie. I think about the difference between The Fisher King and all those other movies that we mentioned. Yeah, I mean there's there's a I think a romantic comedy line that kind of goes through there, and and the drama kind of mixing um. But overall of the the whimsy that exists within this screenplay, I want to say is brought heavily by Gilliam. Right, it feels that way for sure, Um, because you know you do you I

hope everyone listening is familiar with Terry Gilliam. But the fuss, the the imagination that exists within that man's head, um is just glorious to behold on screen. And it's there's

no exception here with the Fisher King. Yeah. Absolutely. And the other thing about the writer, um, he he strikes me as someone and looking at his his list of credits as a screenwriter who really just is so solid with that Hollywood form, which is to say, act one, Act two, Act three thirty minutes to get your plot point ninety minutes or you know, depending on how long

your movie and get your second plot point. You've got the characters overcoming adversity and gaining redemption and overcoming the obstacles. I mean, it's in the best way. It is as true to the Hollywood sort of trophies gript form that that you can imagine. And and I've talked about it before, but that's a a tried and true thing because almost just because it is like people are conditioned to see movies this way. And that's why when movies don't do it.

They're seen as sort of avant garde, are really sort of artie. But this is right down the middle the Fisher King. As far as just being a great story of characters redemption love, it really hits all the notes, really, really well. The hero's journey is strong with this one, and it's in fact doubled like it is. And that was one of the criticisms that Roger Ebert. He only gave this two stars, and he was sort of like, he just throws the kitchen sink in there. We have

two redemption stories into love stories. And I was like, yeah, but it's it's great. Yeah. They mirror each other in these beautiful ways. When you we're thinking about um, well, let's just say Jack, I guess the main character, traditional main character that exists within this story, Um played by Jeff Bridges, and then Perry the I guess the the secondary in in a way, but also the kind of

the most important character in a lot of ways. Robin Williams, you know, uh, And just like the acting in this movie, I think each of them was nominated for an Oscar Mercedes Rule won the Oscar very deservedly. She's so good in this dude. Mercedes. Yeah, and I I hate to admit this, but it's not that I didn't remember her in that role. It's just I think when I was originally watching this role, I was so obsessed with Robin Williams,

and I was watching it for Robin Williams. Same here, and um, I guess just with with a little bit of time and age, you see all of these parts, including Amy, Amanda Plumber, oh my god, as as a lady. Like, all of them together as an ensemble knocked it out of the park. Some of the scenes, some of the scenes with with Mercedes and Jack or sorry Mercedes, Mercedes and Jeff Bridges, Um, the two of them together just um, there was just there, like sparks, There's there's such a

connection there, you know, it's real. Yeah, their relationship was so upsetting at times, especially watching it as an older guy. Um, because like you said, I think when I first saw this movie, and I saw it quite a few times back then I was in college, I think, like my second yar in college and then watch it quite a few times on video just because I loved it so much. But us and it was all about Robin Williams and of course I love Jeff Bridges, and I thought Mercedes Rule.

I was like, man, she's a hot older woman, you know, and like I was Leopard hot pants and she's in her forties and I was like twenty years old now that I'm a little older. It's just their relationship was so sad to me because although it works out in a really sweet way, she was so willing to accept so little from him as a partner and the only way she could get him was as damaged goods. And uh, and you see how cruelly he leaves her when he starts to get his life back together. And man, that

stuff just hit me right in the gut this viewing. Yeah, oh yeah. And and just the immediacy at which he decided to leave her after things started on a slight up tick for his life. He's out of there like

so quickly. But again, like, let's I don't want to get too far a head shuck, because I just I guess, let's establish that character of jack there's some interesting things going on just in our lives reflected with with jack Um not not saying that we are we have the same qualities that he does, flaws that character has, but we're not shocked shocks. No, we're not shocked shocks, but we are broadcasters. And um, you know we just starting out with Hit the Road Jack playing right. Um, that's

the way this movie begins. Hit the Road Jack. Uh, don't you come back no more? Ray Charles and the ray Lettes are are just rocking out, and it's him in the studio as Jack Lucas this rock jock, and he is. They just hit you with it immediately in the beginning. It's such a great setup. Mm hmm. They give you his character everything you need to know just by showing him in his environment. Yeah, without showing his

face though, which I thought was kind of interesting. Oh, it was really cool just and and it really mirrors a big theme in this or at least for Jack personally, the concept of the face that's always heard but never seen, and how badly he wants this TV show so he can be a face and a voice, which Harry Shear later gets. Yeah, very cool little cameo exactly he wants to be what was it called on the error? I

think is the fake? Very funny stuff. But yeah, the way they set it up is so clean, and I always talk about efficiency of set up in the In the first like five minutes, you know exactly who this guy is, and you get that great um movie tragedy that happens where his life has turned upside down. And then we later learned, you know, obviously many other people's

lives are turned upside down. Oh yeah, with that Mats shooting, with which at the time was I remember seeing this and it was just unfathomable that somebody would walk into our restaurant and shoot people up. And it's so sad now that that's you know, commonplace. Oh yeah, yeah, man, um, you know, I was, I guess around eight when this movie came out. I didn't see it for a long time.

Um gosh, it was. It was around the time I was watching all these movies in high school, um, like all the ones that we've been talking about on this show prior to this. Uh, and I was just really getting into movies. But I was always into Robin Williams. I think it was a Laddin for me that got me there, and my dad made me watch Good Morning Vietnam early on good movie and then I just like just stuck with everything. I watched anything and everything that

he was in. Yeah, people that Robin Williams haters. I just I don't know, get away from me. Those exist. Yeah, there's some Robin Williams haters that kind of thought he overdid it and overacted, And I just I just thought he was a treasurer and like, what a great great man. My brother worked with him on just one day as an a d on a job he was in and he just had chatted him up for like two minutes at the craft service tables, the only interaction you ever

had with him. And he was just the kindest, sweet, sweetest, sweetheart of a guy. From what everyone said, I'm missing so much. Yeah, yeah, me too. Do this sad? What happened? Oh, there's so many things I wanna talk about. I feel like they feel like it's a good transition. There's so many other things to connect that maybe you don't know about if you're listening to this, But I would just say, if you haven't watched Fisher King and you are listening

to this, do yourself a favor. It's on Amazon Prime right now. If you have Amazon Prime and you get Showtime, you get a free trial and watch it right now. Maybe on Hulu as well, but I watched it on Amazon Prime. Yeah, just do it and then maybe come

back here. Um, just do it. They're just speaking about, um memories of Robin Williams and some of the scenes that he gives to us in this in this movie, Um, I teared up so many times, and it was just watching him and remembering that he's gone, but also watching him on screen. I don't know if there was a very emotional thing for me. There's the scene where, uh, where the two couples Perry, Perry and Lydia, Jack and

Anne are at the Chinese restaurants. Such a great great it's a great scene, just the whole I mean, this whole scene is great. Um, I guess can we do you mind if we just talked about the one really quickly, no man helping over all this other stuff. We're gonna jump all around. It's all good, Okay. So first of all, all of a sudden, there are wipe wipe transitions, like all all of a sudden in the movie, white transitions occurring. Yeah. Well, it's like they just got coverage of that wide shot

at the table and they just wanted to show. It's almost like that to me, like the the direction and an editor they were just like, well, let's just like cut around a little more and let's just stay here.

They may have had that that that location for like two hours or something, you know exactly, but but they they really pulled it off, just showing the the mirroring that Perry's character is doing to Lydia whenever she's being clumsy with the china and the glass and the dumplings and everything, and he's just mirroring her as an attempt to make her feel less uncomfortable. It's so goddamn sweet,

I know it really is. And they're showing you all of this through this series of transitions and cuts there. And then there's a moment I can't remember if Perry begins singing first, or if we get this. I can't remember if they if he sings first, or you get this moment with Jack and and but there's a moment where and is kind of just watching them interact and

is so amused by what they're doing. And she kind of glances over at Jack and notices that her red bra is slightly down on her arm, just slightly down on her arm, and she, like you know, glances at

Jack and pulls it up. And then Jack kind of just reaches over his finger and just pulls it back to such a great little moment and just gives her kiss on the arm and they just, I mean, the the sweetness that existed there, that was so genuine, um, maybe so happy, but it was also this tremendously like sensual,

like beautiful thing like that. That a moment that I think I've experienced before in the almost very very similarly um and maybe a lot of us have, where there's just it's a hint of of sexuality expressed between them, but it's mostly just this, um, it's it's expressing love without saying I love you from Jack to Anne, which he you know, doesn't say until the end. So it

was very meaningful, exactly. It's so meaningful. And at the same time, while all that's happening, you've got Perry expressing his just happiness to be around Lydia by singing that song Lydia, Lydia the Tattooed Lady Okay, And it's and it's kind of a raunchy song, but the way he's singing it is so it's beautiful. And as the music that score swells in to fill in the rest of the song. While he's singing, and the cameras pulling back and you see all of the employees there in the

Chinese restaurant. They're clearly they're after hours. Yeah, and that beautiful like when you finally pull back, you like, it's a beautiful shot anyway, but that the lighting and just that that set in that frame is so gorgeous um just so vibrant with colors, and there's so much great color in this movie that that whole sequence is just

off the charts. That date from the beginning in the apartment where they're trying to get Perry ready and it's just like an animal at that table, like trying to look down her dress and staying up on the table like you're too good of a woman to go to waste, all the way through a date itself, and how nervous he is to uh, post date when Jack and Anne are just riding high and it's so in love and Perry and Lydia have that heartbreaking scene where she tells him how bad it's going to go and he gets

that first kiss anyway, and then the PTSD meltdown immediate.

I mean that that's the sequence of the movie. I think, you know, oh, it really is um and and it's it's a big theme of the movie, achieving, finally achieving what you think you want, what you think you need UM, and then something coming through and telling you that you can't have it or it's out, it's out of reach, or that's not what you need UM, even though it is true, it's what Perry it's it is what Perry needs, a companionship, someone who will be who will function with him,

not for him or not someone that he's functioning for UM in the same way that the relationship he had with his wife, right um that we only get to see a sliver of. We only get to see a tiny sliver of Perry and his his wife. The brutal scene, the flashback. Yeah, yeah, because he's not allowed to have this stuff because of what he went through, his his PTSD,

like his legiti mental illness. And that comes out later when about sort of not having permission to to feel a certain way when he finally comes out of the comment in the end in his catatonic state, and uh, he asked, and god, that scene is so great, But he asked Jack if he can miss her now? And that's another thing, like giving himself permission to miss her.

It was just so powerful, so great down the quote he said, he yeah, he his hands are clasped on this trophy that he believes is the Holy Grail and he's still comatose, and then his hands like slowly start to move up and he physically realizes what it is before he mentally does, and then he wakes up. Jack is passed out, kind of laying across him a little bit um, and he just sits up and he says, I had this dream Jack, I was married. I was married to this beautiful woman and you were there too.

I really miss her, Jack. Is that okay? Can I miss her now? Jesus thank you? There he goes away and You're just like, ah, don't you cry, Matt. I'm not going to. I will not cry. Yeah. The way they played that out that was so great. Like Jeff Bridge is not acknowledging because he just lays motionless, but his eyes are open, and that like single tier comes down. Uh. Just such a heartwarming and tragic movie all at the

same time. So much. Well, a mirror is what they provide to each other because there's there's the moment in that same bed where like right before this before Jack goes in gets the grail where yelling at him, Well, yeah, he's yelling at him, but he's he is I think more so pouring his heart out to him, saying like especially what he where he comes to with it, like if I if I do this, I'm not you know, I'm not doing it because I feel guilty or responsible in some way. If I do this, I'm doing it

because I want to do it for you. That's all for you. Yeah, that's and that's the change that needs to happen for him to be redeemed, because he runs the gamut from ignoring this guy to realizing who he is to trying to literally pay him off and buy him out like that will work, and he's trying to Like it takes him that that long in the movie to realize that You've got to do the work, and it's got to be for the right reasons. You can't buy him off. You can't buy your way out of this.

You can't uh, you can't absolve your guilt. It has to be a selfless act. And that selfless act is breaking into the Carmichael's Park Avenue Armory, which somehow I've never gone to that building in New York, and next time I go to New York, I'm going there immediately and like taking pictures of me in front of it. Do you think we'll ever go to New York again? Yeah?

I hope so we will. Matt Okay. Uh. It was cracking up the whole time you're talking because of just the concept of Jack trying to buy out Perry's um, the guilt that he feels towards Perry, the moment when he gives Perry fifty bucks and then a twenty on top of it. Yeah, and then Perry immediately turns around and there's a guy with a shopping cart and he's got a phone, and Perry comes up, hands in the money and he goes bye bye. Yeah. That moment is great because you know, Jack sees it and I was

giving you the money. I was giving you the money, and it's it's a lesson that he doesn't even pick up on, but Perry's giving him a lesson right there.

And then he gives so many lessons through the movie, um of And I think that's what I love about this character and made me miss Robin Williams even more, is that there was something very Robin Williams about it, especially once you know that he suffered through Louis body dementia and depression and took his own life like Perry is a is a is a wreck of a human. But he's still trying to like put goodness into the world. Yeah, he emanates or he emits yes, and he does it

without maybe even intentionally doing it. It feels that way. He's just the way he reacts to things, the thoughts that he has about any situation that he finds himself in. He just appears to be doing the right thing and in a weird way, perhaps the way we imagine a night would you know, Like really he's the chivalrous human that is there to protect, to help, to you know, save people. Um, he really does act that way. Yeah. And and the way he loves Lydia without even knowing

her is the way that Jack should love Anne. Like again, he's like this lesson right in front of Jack's face that he he know. He follows Lydia around and and just rebels in every small little thing she does, from eating the dumplings wrong to buying the trashy romance novel and getting swept up in the revolving door, and it's like right there in front of Jack's face the whole time. Yeah, it really is. But Chuck, we have to talk about this. Isn't it a little creepy by the way Perry's character

goes after Lydia. I mean, my note here says, you know, he's basically stalking her, but uh, you know you can't look at it through that lens. It's it's a sweet romantic gesture. Uh. But I wrote a note of that when when they're having this tender moment after the date, when they're there at the stoop, it's like I've been following you. He's he describes her entire life and routine, everything about her, and she's looking at him and you can see in her eyes like, what really, you're watching

me do all of that, and it is creepy. For a moment you feel that it's creeping, you realize it's creepy. But for me, again, I think it's the performances as well here where you can see that what it really means is that he knows her better than anyone on this on this planet, even better than herself perhaps, and like you said, he adores every little part of it. Somehow, for some reason, he adores all of these little eccentricities

that she has. And and I really do think in some philosophical level that is where we're in true love lies like the acceptance of flaws, the almost, the almost the it's more than appreciation of them. It's a fascination with flaws or something like that. I don't know. I can't haven't put my finger on this whole love thing, guys, but uh, there's something to it that that exists right there. Well, and even you know, these are superficial little flaws, like

real human flaws. That's why people couple up, you know, because going through life is very hard alone, and two people that are messed up in their own unique ways can come together and and ideally lift each other up and help each other out. Well, that's why Jack and is so important. So that's why, you know, I'd love to talk to Roger Ebert about that. Like, that's why these two storylines are so important. It's showing you total kinds of love and affection and problems within relationships and

how those are navigated incorrectly most of the time. But then you know, with with time and communication, you can fix a lot of that almost all of that. Yeah, I mean they're saving each other throughout the whole movie. They're alternating sort of saving each other. Jeff Bridges is trying to say Perry, uh, because he's trying to save himself. But Perry this whole time is just sending up just like big, Hey, this is how you should be. He's

got this great woman. You can't buy your way out, And Jeff Bridges even says Jack says, at one point, I just wish there was some way I could pay the fine and go home. Yeah, And that's that's that character in a nutshell. He wants the easy way out and he can't. Life doesn't work that way. Yeah, it's true. But you know I can also I can also very much identify with that feeling of just wishing there was some there was something I could do, or a series of things I could do to make myself not feel

so bad about something. I definitely identify with that. But but you know it's okay, man, this is the philosophy of this movie and the symbols it uses to tell to get us to some of these answers. I guess it is so beautiful. Um, I kind of want to, oh, man, I wanted to jump to another scene here, you would

if you'd allow. Um. The just when we're talking about the philosophy everything we're talking about the title of the movie, the Fisher King, the actual story of the Fisher King, UM, and the way that Perry tells it because he's a history professor. He knows all of this stuff. He has a history professor, right. I think he might have been English, but one of the two. He's Yeah, he's a professor in a college there. And when they're sitting in Central Park there, this is the first time they find them

well is it the first time. It's the time they find themselves in Central Park at night for the first time. Perry is naked. I think Perry is naked, but Jack is not. And Jack just refuses and he's about to leave, but he ends up coming back and just laying there to cloud bust very great, which is a real thing and was really weird and hilarious and ragon energy and check out stuff they don't want you to know if

you want to learn about orgon energy and cloud busting. UM. But Perry tells tells Jack the entire story of the Fisher King, and it really is exactly the movie just in it's the the whole movie is right here in the Fisher King that exists within the middle of the movie. Yeah, it's fascinating. Yeah, it's really beautiful. Um. And I think that's even the name of his manuscript that Jack digs out right in his basement, um sort of boiler room apartment.

What's his name, Henry more right? No, like his real name? Yeah, I can't remember. Oh, man, I thought it was Henry Merriam or wrong. That whole sequence is Henry. Yeah, Henry sane when he when he first discovers uh. And again it's right, just like clockwork, at that thirty minute point in the movie when he discovers that Perry was was in that restaurant that night that it was shot up and he lost his wife, and you know, that's where

the hero's journey begins. That's where he knows where his night's quest shall lie, even though he doesn't choose to accept it immediately. Like that's the big sort of thread of this movie is Perry is he is the night that is a accepting any quest, and Jack is the night that refuses to accept the request. That's so obvious right in front of his face, but he does begrudgingly because he thinks again that is where his salvation will lie. Uh and in fact it does, but he has to

come by it honestly. Yeah, you're right, man. I thought one of the most fun parts of this whole movie too was how Jack is thrust into this world of uh, these mentally ill people, homeless people, mentally ill people, whether it's in the hospital or like out on the streets, uh in like New York's version of skid Row, and how he he clearly fits in better there. That's where he's most like, sort of happiest almost even though like in his mind and you know that these would be

his words. He's just like among a bunch of loony's. But uh, he he ends up when he you know, when he gets his career back and he's a rich guy again. Uh Um, he's not happy and he even says like, I keep why is it that everything I have? And I still feel like I'm missing something. And then when he's most at home again and happiest at the end of the movie, when he's when he's leading the chorus in the in the institution and all these men singing, it's like it's such a great moment. And you know,

for better for worse. It's a very dressed up Hollywood version of mental illness. Uh that is sort of light and fluffy, so we don't want to ignore that. But it's a fairy tale. It's what this movie is. Yeah,

oh yeah, for sure. I mean they're there. There are a lot of problematic things with it, but at the heart of it, I mean I think, and you know, if you're listening, correct me if I'm wrong, But at the heart of this movie, it feels like there's a a true appreciation for the situations that many, many people that is depicting find themselves in. Yeah, I think he's

saying they have value. Yeah, absolutely, and the hardships, you know, being being kicked out of a facility because there's no money, because like someone who cannot get help simply because the the instant the institutions of the state or local level or the federal level aren't providing things for someone who's unable to you know, provide for themselves. Um. And again it just kind of ripples through all of this, all of this movie from the punks that show up at

the very beginning. You yeah, then they call him. I think they called him punks in the screenplay, but the evil son's abit shous uh and then too to the fleshed out characters that are very much, you know, tertiary characters that exist within this world, but they're so amazing. Can we just for a second talk about I think I think he's I think he's labeled as the cabaret singer Michael Jeter. Oh my god, man, Oh my god. A revelation this man, perhaps, And Michael Jeter is a

great actor. He was a very special guy. He was. He was one of the few, um openly gay actors in Hollywood. Um and at a time where you didn't kind of do that stuff. He was. He's most well known, I think for many years on the Evening Shade TV show with Burt Reynolds, which I never really watched that much, but I know Michael Jeter as as this guy. And yes, in the scene, I mean all he steals every scene he's in, but the scene where he goes and sts to Lydia in the office is one of my favorite

scenes in any movie ever. Well, even the way he when he's going in in the high heels and he's just sort of running through the office and he hangs his coat on the one guy and he goes Lydia, Lydia Barnett it this way and he just looks. It's

so great. He looks, I mean he he's got tags on all of the costumes that or pieces of the costume that he's and he just it's pure joy, just goes for it to this entire I think it's a publishing house of some sort, or at least an imprint of a publishing house in the middle of New York City and this giant high rise building and he's singing to her about how she's one of free membership well like video Spot, which is so ridiculous that a video store would send a guy to an office, but it's

like it somehow works in this movie. It's so great. And the other the other part I loved was before that happens when he's first getting to know Jack. Yes, when he's sitting in his lap like a baby, cradling him like a little baby, and he's talking about how he used to do summer stock and ye. But there's dude that the movie does this thing where it hits

you with truth. It does it a couple of times it does it right in that scene, and then almost immediately after it, it does it with Tom Waits, um and so so first, so first, just just a hit, um our our cabaret singer's character, what's his name in the movie that's bugging me now? I think I was looking at him IMDb and I looked at Michael. I think it says homeless cabaret singer for Michael Jeter said they didn't even give him a name. Didn't even give

him a name. Um. And I wonder if it if the character got bigger in the movie or something, because Michael Jeter was so damn the show really so. But we're in this moment where they're at the hospital because

Michael Jeter's character, you know, needed help. They found him, I think, in the dirt and horse crap and he was just crying for help, and so Perry and Jack take him to the hospital and they're sitting there, like you said, Um, I'm Michael Jeter is laying across Jack there and Jack says, when you, uh, did you lose your mind all of a sudden or was it a slow gradual process? But he but he doesn't say it

like an asshole. Yeah, because he's feeling himself also interacting, like you said, with with what he thinks people listing his mind. He thinks he's losing money. He's interacting with people that society would say are mad? Are are you know? Out of the rhyns um And he's just kind of wondering where that line is and what's the truth to this? And he he just kind of sits there for a moment, says, well, I'm a singer by trade. He talks about summer Stock.

I could do gypsy every part back, forwards and backwards. Then one night, right in the middle of singing funny, suddenly it hit me, what does all of this mean? And then but he hits you with the truth right here, and he sits up. When he like he kind of climbs up. He says that plus the fact that I had watched all my friends die and the truth of immediate AIDS epidemic, and it doesn't have to say anything to explain any of that stuff. Now you understanding, You

get it if you're a living human that pays attention. Yeah, And it does that all the time in this movie where it'll it references something in regards to a character that they've already established or they're establishing um with these little things. Yeah, what was the time waits when there was another good one with him where he's he's sort of do you have the quote where he's got the whole thing here? Yeah? He his character is disabled veteran.

They're in Central Station. Yeah, I think it's outside of Grand Central Station, Grand Central. Yeah, and um, he's you know, he's got a cup out and he opens the line with somebow. Do you hear about Jimmy Nichols. He got picked up yesterday for pisting on a bookstore, and then you just talk about anarchy, It's like it's social anarchy

when people start pissing on bookstores. And what happens is as this is all happening, he's he's conversing with Perry don't remember Jack because Jack is is upset because they don't even like make eye contact with him, and he's like, as long as they pay, they don't have to look at me or something like that. Yeah, And I think that's something Jack begins to notice throughout again like part

of his arc there. So he watches a woman make eye contact with him, put change, and another guy just throw change as he's going by, and he's like, asshole,

didn't you look at you? And he just he says that he's paying so he don't have to look, which then mirrors back the way Jack had been trying to handle things right, And it just like goes in these cycles of um not repeating, I guess repeating in a way, but each time it repeats a little lesson or something like this, we get a little more light on the subject,

a little more of the picture. Yeah, and it is related because it that kind of harkens back to the beginning, when the very beginning when Jack is in the limo with David, with his agent, David Hyde Pierce, and he says, uh, you know, the guy's asking for money. He's what differences a couple of quarters make anyway, And and that thread is like very tied up very nicely later on. I mean the screenplay, like I said, it is very by

the numbers, but in the most perfect ways. Everything is tied up just so neatly throughout the movie, and this message that these people have value is there without hitting

you over the head with it. And in fact, that's what um, that's what drives Jack away at the end for his ultimate redemption is he's in the office getting pitched this sitcom about homeless people, but really fun homeless people, and it's called home Free, and that's why he finally snaps because he identifies with this, um these people that society has turned their back on. Now like there's people in a way, it's really interesting. It really is home free.

I remember cringing so hard that that was an actor that I recognized his face playing that. Yeah went off, he's uh, he's been and stuff. There were a couple of little cameos like that before they were super famous. Kathy the Jimmy early on in the PoCA Dotted Dress video store. She nailed back yeah with with the and of course that scene has the patented classic Terry Gilliam fisheye lens shot, which you know you're going to get in any Terry Gilliam movie. And the way if a

character is drunk or a little off and Jack has wasted. Yeah, he plays such a good drunk too. I meant to mention that, um, he plays it really realistically. I think the way he talks and that whole sequence where he's drunk and then goes to goes to you know, jump off the bridge with his cinder block cinder block shoes. Yeah. Man, dude, that whole thing with Pinocchio tied up there. Yeah, that's a This is a thread through the movie too, who's

given to him by an extremely wealthy man. Man's son who is arguing with a homeless man and a son give him the doll. The sun almost I can't tell if the Sun thinks that maybe he too is homeless or can't help, but I think that's what it's saying in the kid just sees a man who looks like he needs help, and he gives him the Pinocchio doll. Again, we're mirroring everything people. It's it's it's perfect. Just this the innocence of this kid just sees what he sees.

There doesn't have to be any kind of motivation body. Yeah, and then that doll is is paid forward because that's what he ends up bringing. Well, first of all, he tells Perry he can keep it when he leaves the boiler rim, but then it comes back later and he brings the doll to the to the hospital when he's sort of I guess they call it a coma, but it seems a little more like catatonia um um really quickly.

Just because you mentioned the video store thing and we're talking about Katheen to Jimmy, can we there's one line in there, uh from Jack I know what you're gonna say. Go ahead, you know that line, Chuck, I'm gonna I'm gonna read the crazed video customer again. That's how IMDb calls it. Here here, here you go. What I'm in the mood for is a sort of Katherine Hepburny carry granty kind of thing. Nothing heavy, I couldn't take heavy.

Something zany, I'm looking. I'm looking for something zany or something modern would be fine too, like a Goldie Hawny, Chevy Chasey kind of thing. You know, funny. I want to laugh. I wanna laugh tonight. Really? Oh do you have anything with that comedian? Oh, he's the one on that show on the radio, You know, the guy who says, hey, forgive me, I get such a kick out of the way. He says that he's so goddamn adorable. That would be perfect.

Did he make a movie? And then that Jeff Bridges gives her some porn ordinary people's ordinary peoples and says, this is more of a big titty, spread, cheeky kind of thing. You're gonna love it, and she's just traumatized. Well, and the other thing, it's funny, it's very sly. But the other thing that little exchange does is it indicates that not only did uh that person do a TV show, but then they went on to do a movie, and that's where Jack would be um instead of working in

a video store. And by the way, does this movie not make you miss video stores? It's almost like a love song to video stores. Like every meeting is in the porn room, like every closed door. You don't even realize it. You don't realize at first until the one guy is in there and she's like, get out of here. What do you what do you what do you want to take this story? What do you want story here?

Take this? It is one like three things, and are so many scenes that sort of just kind of dumb recurring bit of the video boxes falling and that happens a couple of times with Lydia and Perry, and then at the end when Jack and a come back together and they're kissing and all the boxes fall down on top of them. But man, it really makes me miss walking around a video store looking at those boxes. Man, and it's nostalgia, I guess, because it's so easy to

stream something. But man, it was great. It was a social scene, you know. It was people vying for the same thing. It was. It was checking that Blockbuster cart of things that were returned but not shelved yet to see if the movie that was not on the shelf was there. Yes, exactly, because you're excited. Then the excitement of not knowing whether what you want is going to

be there. Yeah, it's almost like, I don't know. Den the possibility of being denied something is a human thing that's been lost in a lot of ways, you know, like you you don't there's no chance. I mean very few things aren't available to stream. I guess it's supposed there are some if you're really going to go deep into some weird like little known art house movie, but generally you can get whatever you want whenever you want

it in the in a second. And the possibility of racing to that store because you and your friends are like, oh dude, we need to watch whatever, like is it gonna be there? Yeah, there was something about that that was exciting. No, you're you're absolutely right, and just thinking about the fact that this movie, now you all you have to do is start a free trial of a thing that most people already have. So you didn't even have a She didn't have a the VCR. Yeah, Lydia

doesn't have a VCR. He said, well you're gonna get when, no problem it comes with the VCR. Aunt slaps um real quick that you know. She mentioned Katherine Hepburn and that just reminded me. And remember one of my favorite lines from Michael Jeter when he's was sitting in Jack's lap and he finally just sized and goes, why can't I be Katherine Hepburn? Yeah, dude, so great man. And uh so maybe we should talk about The Red Knight for a little bit. When you first get that glimpse

of the Red Knight, it's so awesome. So Terry Gilliam, like, this is a pretty straight ahead movie for him, but he still has his flashes of gilliam esque, you know, fantasy, and the design of that Red Knight is just fucking amazing. I wrote down it's yeah, it looks and Currel I wrote down a description if you would if you wouldn't mind me just saying it and holds up like it. It looks no less cool like thirty years later or whatever. Come on, incredible and well there's more to talk about

with the Red Knight. I just wrote down when he when that when we first get him, after Jack starts to try and talk to Perry about his other personality who he used to be. Yeah, he triggered the PTSD and I just wrote down full metal armor, helmet, horns, flames emitting from his head, wields a sword, tattered flags draped behind him. They look like blood and sinew spray from a shotgun blast, but a moving still image. He rides a crimson horse with black armored garments. The horse

expels smoke from its nostrils. This is truly terrifying. Yeah, it really is. I mean it's it's scary, and I think that's one of the things that he had to do for this movie was to make it genuinely scary in those scenes, to be genuinely scary and really um upsetting for the viewer. Oh yeah, it couldn't have been any like, like less scary and had the same impact. But you know, I never thought about how it is a symbol symbolic thing of of the man who killed

his wife. Um. But but I I always thought of it that way. I was like, oh, yeah, so that's the stand in for the fear that he has, the PTSD, death coming and loss. But at the same time, the red and the way again, I think it's something to do with those tattered flags, that kind of envelope the

Red Knight and the way they flow. It looks very similar to the scene that we are that we get in the moment when Rob when Robin Williams character Perry gives up when he's back at the bridge and he just he gives in to the sadness, to the pain, to all of it. When the Red Knight shows back up with those guys, the same guys and they take

the switchblade to him. Um, I realized that because in that moment you actually, for the first time get to see his wife get shot, and you see the way her head, her brains, her blood and everything splatters directly onto his face. And something about that image it just it's so symbolic of the way the Red Knight flows. Yeah, I mean that was he that was his manifestation of his PTSD and that and you see that in his

uh in the boiler room when he has drawn it out. Um, every every image of the Red Knight that he's drawn out has that it looks like a head exploding. It looks like blood splatter or blood spatter coming out. And then it all ties up when you see how it really went down, and that's and that's how it manifested itself. It's so creative and smart the way they did that. I think I just never got it in my younger I don't think as fully as Yeah I did this time. Yeah, absolutely, dude.

The shadow on the wall in that same scene where they're under the bridge again, he's like giving up. Uh, the shadow of the Red Knight on the wall as the punks show up in their jeep. Yeah, got weapons. It's just gorgeous in just awfully terrifying. Um. Oh man, the whole sequence where what is I think Perry says he's afraid of you, Jack. I think it's pretty early on when they see the encounter of the Red Knight

and they're chasing the Red Knight through Central Park. Um, and you get to watch in slow motion as the Red Knight is galloping like just beyond the trees when you can't really see him he's just out of focus. He's just out of you. Um. That makes things, you know. I think we've talked about this before, but not fully being able to see makes it so much scarier and so much more intense. And the excitement of chasing that the childlike excitement that Perry had knowing that something was

happening to where his fear was. It was running away for some reason. Um, yeah, and it was. And he does say, it's afraid of you, Jack, And what he's saying is that you're the one who can heal me, like you can literally chase away my PTSD through through your eventual selfless act. M. Yeah, Like I think Perry knows that Jack is capable that Jack doesn't know it. Yes, but in a weird way. And just tell me what you think about this. The guy, the actual killer that

was his name Edwin Edwin. He was essentially a follower of Jack, a big fan of Jack, someone who could be controlled by Jack in all likelihood and was controlled by Jack. Um the man. The man believed Jack's words so much that he went out and he committed a mass shooting because of Jack's words. And in this weird way, he Edwin would have been afraid of Jack. If Jack would have told him a different thing, if Jack would have guided him in a different way, he probably would

have gone that way. Yeah, which is funny. I never really thought about it until just now, but it's he's also mentally ill edwin is and um, the undercurrent of mental illness through this whole thing, and the and the different representations of it is really fascinating. I think, well, yeah, And and the question it asked a couple of times, including the one where we get to see Tom Waits and even Jack in the beginning and a couple of other people, is who are really the mentally ill within

our society? Right? Is it the slightly more eccentric people who actually you know who that we're seeing representations of in this film, or is it you know as as the disabled veteran says, again, that's the character name? Is it the person going to work nine to five, the person spending all of their time and money or all of their time and efforts for someone else's dream? What

are they actually achieving? What are they getting with all the material wealth that there finding through those uh, through those endeavors? Um? Like, what does what does all any of that mean? And isn't that person crazy or isn't that person at least off because society says it's right and the thing we should do. But what's right about that? Yeah? And you can even make the case that Lydia is a depressive agoraphobe. Um kind of clearly is. And then

you know she has that. The way that she and Mercedes rule their relationship and the way that that is played is so great because you know, Mercedes rule initially is like who's this Lydia? Who's this Lydia? She's kind of jealous. Then she finds out, but she's still not, Oh yeah, like we totally should help them. She's kind of like fighting in a little bit. You know, you get your membership for you know, for a year, and they're they're kind of going at it in the video store.

She's like, and then it costs me money. She's like, yeah, it costs you two nine per rental. And you know they have this whole sort of tete a tete and then end up at the apart it together and that scene is so great when they bond, they finally start drinking, and the line where it turns is, uh, she's trying to give Lydia confidence, and she does so by saying, you may not know this about yourself, but you can

be a real bitch. And Lydia hears that. It's kind of like I can, like, oh my god, like because that gives her power. You know, it's not a drugatory term in that sense. It's like what she means is you can be a real feisty person. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I loved that scene, and especially when we cut away from essentially that moment back to Perry getting his his pants Staples suit taylored, Yeah, giant baggy linen suit. Yeah,

it was really great. But the moment when the guys come back to the apartment and just discover them clearly tipsy on tequila and having entirely too much fun. Yeah, the enters you from that moment forward in that scene that we already went over to Chinese restaurant is just glorious. Yeah,

And it's sort of right before that. I wanted to point this out, as you know, Jack has a very small, small line and moment where it's clear that he's fully kind of turned into um, accepting Perry and all all of the other people as real people and people with value is when and he doesn't make a big deal about it, but Ann says something about this moron, and he goes, he's not a moron, and that's he defends him for the first time. To Ann, Uh, it's not

like I'm trying to help this crazy guy. Like he's like, he's not a moron. He and the the ellipsus is he's a man with value and he's a man who was a professor and who had something taken away from him because of me. Like that's all said in that one line. It's just so beautiful. I love that part. So let's talk about the elephant in the room, which is the Grand Central Station. Waltz. Okay, this is this is the elephant. I didn't realize this. This was the

elephant to me. This is the shot and the sequence of the movie and and one of and and I'm not being hyperbolic here. I think one of the great iconic New York movie sequences of all time is because that room is so iconic and if you've ever stood in that room, it's just you can't do it ever again without thinking of this. Every time I stand in that room, the main hallway of Grand Central Station, I

can only think of people waltzing. Uh, And it's um a room that's always impossibly crowded because it's such a hub of of trains, the commuter trains and subways. And to be able to even logistically pull this off with four hundred extras waltzing from I think they shot it from like, you know, nine or ten at night to five am when the trains reopened, and they they're like, there's how much time. You got a very incredibly difficult

thing to pull off. And the way they set it up is so beautiful, like her sort of weaving through the people, and it's not this It happens gradually. It's not this big thing that's all of a sudden happening. You see just a couple of people dancing behind her, and and when you first see the movie, you're like,

what was that? And then more people are dancing and more, and it builds and builds with the music, and then you can get the crescendo of that big wide overhead shot with the mirror ball, and it's just fucking perfect. It's got chills. Yeah, yeah, I agree. The the sea of humans moving as one in that iconic space with our two protagonists um or at least are or the person we're following as a hero. In that moment, Perry just enchanted, not even noticing that all of this is

happening around him yet it's in his mind. You know, this is one of the fantasy aspects of the movie where it's not based in reality at all, and he's they're still sort of bobbing through the people, and and then the way they get out of that scene, how it just sort of rushes all back to normal. It's just it's it's so masterful. It's one of my favorite sequences in a movie. It feels like something in a movie now you'd use uh, special effects for absolutely, dude,

this this was These were real. These were four people nuns and sailors and business people and Hasidic Jews and you know, homeless people. And they were all dancing, you know, men dancing with men. It was just uh. And in fact, I think the first people you see are two men waltzing behind Lydia. Yeah, and she comes in with nuns

and a priest. I never noticed that before. I wonder if that's symbolic in some way that I just didn't really sure it has something, but then yeah, like you said, the representation of of couples that are just dancing or just people who are dancing together. Um, they do that. They do that same thing a couple of times in the movie with um Perry and Jack joking about men with men in a couple of scenes and like that when they're naked together, like essentially just saying it does

not matter. That's to me what the movie says the entire time. Does not matter who you were, It doesn't matter you know, Yeah, what your orientation and any of that stuff is. It's just love. In the end, It's love and that's it. Well, because the Jeep guys are using homophobic slurs. Uh, Michael Jeter's character is is clearly gay and Jack is like cradling him like a little baby.

Uh so yeah, that's another message. There's so many sort of subtle messages that I didn't really as a twenty year old pick up on with valuing the homeless and U and the message about being gay and being accepted. It's it's really a sweet, sweet movie is about this is the thing I wanted to tell you. Oh dang it, I've lost it here. The one scene, according to according to an interview I was watching on the YouTube's the one scene that was not written by lager events Um,

the writer of the screenplay, was that Grand Central station scene. Yeah, and you know that. Did you see what the original scene was? I remember it was similar, but it was not. It was in a different place, right. It was a

big yeah, I mean it was. It was also a scene that could have been very sweet and symbolic in the in that same way was I think that they were going to be on a subway and this homeless black woman starts singing this really beautiful song that like people aren't really noticing, but Jack really locks in on and has a special moment, and that could have been

a nice scene. But I think the story goes is that it was at Grand Central and Terry Gilliam there when they were scouting, was up on there you can get up on the top steps and sort of looked down from that angle and he saw that big sea of people and he said, what if they just started dancing and waltzing and we're and everyone was in love. And he was like, what a sweet scene that would be. And he said that's the only thing that he changed,

and and it was a big change. I mean as far as logistics and costs, like, I'm sure a pretty expensive tough thing to pull off. Yeah, compared to the first iteration, Well, what a vision to be able to see it yeah and make it, you know, make it happen. So Harry ends up in his coma, which really sets up that final leg of the Redemption so well. I mean, it's a movie that's close to two and a half hours long, and you can make an argument that that

last twenty minutes you could have done another way. But I think it's a richer movie because of it, with the silliness of breaking in, with getting that chalice with Perry, which ends up being like a trophy or something. But it doesn't matter. You know, it's the symbol um. You want me to tell you what it said? Yeah, well,

in it down just because I found it so amusing. Uh. It says to little Lanny Carmichael for all his work ps like public school to Christmas pageant, Christmas padget that's right. But what you also get because they do it this way is he uh, he saves the old man's life. Remember that great little newspaper headline thwarted Burglary saves uh, Like accidental overdose or whatever accidental suicide thwarted by night Prowler.

It could have been spelled K and I g h D too, you know, I think that's the play on words. But one of the things I love so much about how they do it is that you get Perry in that catatonic state and Jack comes back, and there's that moment where he sees Lydia and realizes she's been going there.

One of the most brutally sweet and sad parts of the movie is that this man that she had one kiss with, uh, this like homeless guy like right afterward, sort of loses his mind with PTSD and goes into a catatonic state, and she's been going every day like she's his wife, I know, dude, And it's she talks about lime sheets like I brought limes sheets for watermelons on them and I just need to make sure they're clean, and and they're like, yeah, they were dirty. There's like

a hypo. There's a problem with the hypo and the doctor and all. All she is concerned about is whether or not he's okay. Well, yeah said, and when you see him, he's you know, stands out against all those white bed linens and white and white pajamas with his colorful stuff, and it's because of her. It's really a great moment, and and underplayed like it's not. He didn't

make a big deal about it as a director. I think it's just sort of there in the background, and and Jack is sort of hiding from her, you know,

he didn't want to be seen. Yet. Can I jump around for one moment here in that same moment where we where we get the cabaret singer talking about why can't I be Catherine and Heathurn and all of that, whether here in the hospital, Harry, as he does throughout the movie and many scenes, is trying to get people to sing with him New York and June, Yeah, I like, okay, I can't say, but he's trying to get all of these patients to sing. And this guy says, I'm in

the wrong place. He's in a straight jacket, and Perry says, aren't we all? And then uh, there's the whole time you're getting this shot. There is a person who looks comatose in the foreground, very close to you, and and I can't remember if he's in focus or not focus. With Rob Williams and everyone, but he's got a terrible head wound and he's just he's taking up most of

the frame, just sitting there staring at you. This whole time, all of this is going on, and Perry's trying to get everyone to sing, and then uh, Perry goes over to the person in the foreground and just kind of like looks at him like, it's your turn to sing. And there's the perfect pause and there's no cut. It is the perfect pause, and he says, don't hold back, and then he just keeps going. That's one of the

great Robin Williams moments. I mean, I think he adhered to the scripts pretty faithfully, but there are a few moments where Robin Williams is Robin Williams. That in the uh Oh, I Got a Heart on for you the size of Florida, it's so Robin Williams and it kind of annoyed me. Roger Ebert in that same review made an argument that Robin Williams is best when he doesn't do movies that are made for Robin Williams, and this movie was made for him, and he's better when he

doesn't do that. And I'm like, man, he's great all the time, like he's great in Dead Poets, Society and movies where he plays against type of bit because he was a great actor. But he's also one of the great comics of our time, and so let him be Robin Williams. There's nothing wrong with that. Roger Ebert, Well,

I I could couldn't agree more. And the reason why it's so important that he has that dichotomy, those two things going for him at all times is that scene you're talking about, a crass line such as I've got a heart on yes for you the size of Florida is followed by but I don't want just one night, and then he he tells you about the rest of the stuff and he he goes down to, um, I love you, I love you, and I think you're the greatest thing since Spice Racks, which is silly, that's great,

And lady says, and I've been knocked out several times and if I could just have that first kiss, yeah, I mean, he's never more together than he is with her that night. Um, she has his redemption. And you know, he has a great line where he says, you know, we just met, made love and broken up all in the span of like thirty seconds when she's saying of like how bad it's gonna go? There they are each other's redemption. Jack and Perryer each other's redemption, and and

Jack each other's redemption. I love redemption stories, and this is it all over the place. It's redemption. You know, it's great. It's like, it's not too much. It's really not too much. Oh h well, then you know we end with the the great call back to the when they're both naked in the park. That's that great final scene when Jack has his clothes off, and just that sweet conversation they have, and the way they end it

with the buildings lighting up and the fireworks. It's just it's just such a celebration I think of people and people helping people. The way it ends is just so uplifting. I think, Yeah, Jack says, hey, look they're moving. Am I doing that? So? Are you crazy? Oh? Shoot? That's one. That's the thing that happens throughout the whole movie, the times when Jack speaks to God or does a throwaway to somebody else he's thinking about, and just who are

you talking to? That is really great. That's a great effect that that has. Yeah, that's wonderful stuff because like Jack's the one that's crazy all of a sudden. Yeah, it just makes you feel It really does make you feel good. And you know, they're like a lot of the movies we've been looking at from the nineties together Truck that it does have some problems with, you know, just some of the terminology, some of the things that tries to tackle um, some of the views. Like I mean,

it does the whole movie. Nothing would happen in this movie if it weren't for a mass shooting event, right, So there are tough things to look at in this movie and ways to pick little things apart. But I think overall the intentions behind it, behind the writing, behind the direction, behind the performances that you get, it just ends up being this beautiful picture of what caring about other people looks like and how to do it and yeah,

I can't buy your way out of it. Yeah, and all the riches in the world and all the success in the world doesn't matter if you're not living your best life, you know. And he and Anne coming together at the end, it's so great that scene where she's doing all the talking. She's like, you can't do this. You can't just come in here and just stand there and make me do all the work. Uh. And he's just like a little kid. The thing is, you know, I love you. She shuts, she shuts the door to

their porn rooms. Like I didn't get that. I didn't quite get that great moment. Mercedes Rule is just so great in this movie. Man, God, she destrot that Oscar. He gives her the flowers in that moment, and I wrote down flowers who cares. Yeah, she's so great and so real, Like I want to think that he got his success and she ended up with that great apartment and they ended up together and and live next door to Lydia and Jack you know or Barry. Yeah, oh yeah,

that's how this movie ends in my mind. It really did they all just lived together. Maybe they maybe they move into the castle. Yeah, I don't know. All to everybody together happily ever after so good and I don't want to keep going back and we need we need to take off of and I know we have to end here. We're talking forever, and I would talk about

this movie a lot more. Uh. There's a scene just quickly, there's a scene where Anne appears to be having a conversation with Jack and she's braiding him, just like like I made this lasagna. I'm waste, You're a waste of good lasagna. I did all this, I'm cooking, I'm doing all this. And you get that lovely pullback where, oh, you realize she's just talking to herself or the absent Jack conversation. She can't really tell him off in real life like she wants to, and she wants you so

many times. But in the end, he does deserve wait, he completely deserves it. But to her there's something like we keep talking about that's deeper, that's moving deeper, and she cares about him more than he hurts her, which is tough. Again, it's like it's a tough thing to tackle. But yeah, Jesus, movie does it. Good stuff? Brother man, We always have great talks about these movies, Mannie. I couldn't agree more. Man, it's one of my favorite things. That's one of my favorite things to do me too.

So do you have an idea of the next one or you gotta ruminate? Oh lord, I I I don't unless you want to do something off the wall like Nicolas Cage style, like like any Nicolas Cage. Have you seen some of his recent stuff that's like more borderline horror, like Man out of Space. We're the sweetheart, guys. We gotta talking about these fun movies. I think we should

do something else from the nineties. Okay, let's let's stick in the nineties, don't we can go go anywhere in the nineties, because it's an interesting dichotomy because I'm seeing these movies in college. You're seeing these movies as a kid. But somehow we you know, I think we're like minded folks, so it sort of works in an interesting way. I think dig it. All right, I'm I'm gonna look in the early nineties era just to see if there's something there.

All Right, Um, when was Good Morning Vietnam? Have you already done that? Have not great movie? I mean, we don't have to stick with Rob Williams, but that movie, um affected me pretty heavily as the same and it's like a it's a drama, but it's also just got such comedy to it. Oh, I'm feeling like we might have to do it. I'm gonna think a little more. Okay, We're gonna do a Robin Williams. Sweet We don't have

to I just man, he's one of my faiths. So there's no thing in that he looks a lot like my dad, or I should say my dad like Robin Williams, especially in this era in the in the nineties. Interesting, um, and I had this thing going on. I don't know if you were talking about this year, but I like saw my father on screen. And my father was an actor and a director and he did a lot of these things. So every time I watched Robin on screen, a part of me sees my dad and it's this

weird thing, but it works. It makes me happy. That's awesome. Man. All right, well can seeing you, my friend, and thanks to everyone for listening, and we look forward to Maddie coming back, right everybody, right, sure, get on here, Hey, alright, Thanks by everyone. Movie Crash was produced and written by Charles Bryant and Roll Brown, edited and engineered by Seth Nicholas Johnson, and scored by Merl Brown here in our home studio at Pontsy Market, Atlanta, Georgia. For I Heart Radio.

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