Bobby Seagull on Starter for 10

It's been around since the d's and Bobby was a very popular contestant on that show. It would be the equivalent like UM someone on Jeopardy here in the States, like Kim Jennings maybe UM becoming really really popular in the cultural zeitgeist. And that's what Bobby did and he has since pivoted from that to doing to writing books. Uh. He is a teacher and a mathematician. He wrote a

book called The Life Changing Magic of Numbers. We talked to him about math and numbers in this which is very interesting and he has done a couple of shows for the BBC with his former University Challenge rival and now friend UM Eric Monkman, and the shows are called Monkman and Seagulls Genius Guide to Britain and Monkman and Seagulls Genius Adventures, and I think, um yeah, those are in order twenty in order of release. And Poppy is

just a good guy. He interviewed Josh and I for the Stuff You Should Know, a book event that we did in the UK virtually, of course, and I'm not sure who lined it up. I guess someone with the publisher over there, and it was just a great fit because we're birds of a feather. I feel a lot of kinship with him and what he does as far as a spreader of knowledge and curiosity and a um and an academic and a champion of that stuff. And

he's just a good guy. He's so cool and nice and enthusiastic and you just can't help but smile when you talk to him. And um, so I asked Bobby back then when he interviewed Josh and I to come on movie Crush in a bit, and here we are about six weeks later he was able to come on and talk about his pick a movie called Starter for ten, a movie which covers UH University challenge a young James McAboy, a great young cast all the way around as a

student who goes away to college joins the university quiz team. Um, it's got a young Rebecca Hall, a young Vennerdict, Benedict Cumberbatch, Alice Eve, Dominic Cooper, a lot of names before they were famous. And it's a come ring of age stories set in the eighties and a and a rom common a romance movie. And it's really really good and I hope you watch it. It is on HBO X if you want to check it out before you listen. But

we had a great, great talk. Bobby is an awesome dude, And here we go with Bobby Seagull on Starter for ten. How you doing? Yeah, just I've been doing started doing something really fun with them. So in the UK got something called strictly Come dancings like Dancing with the Stars in the US. So the champion from Seen, she's really trying to get into education, so he's starting Instagram lives right,

maths and dance. Um. So it's very surreal because university challenges what I'm from, as it were, and she's some strictly come dancing to ever collide. But it is cliding in the most bizarre way, which is great for kids and young people because it's like a yeah, it just brings together two things you wouldn't expect. Well, how are you bringing them together? Like what's the actual thing? Oh? So what we're doing is so we do two sessions

a week. One is on a Saturday. We talk about our I Essentially I talked to her about experiences with maths and numeracy, how she's in daily life. Then I teach her some some math tricks, like clever ways of let's say, multiplying by nine or multiplying by leaven or dividing by age. I give a little tips and tricks, and then she teaches me like an interpretive dance of that trick. She comes up with this, Yeah, I can't even do. She's a dancer. She tries to teach school. Yeah.

And then on the Wednesdays we make it a bit more simpler. We set people the task of learning a particular times table and it's just like the speed tests that people come on the Instagram live, and then we have a leaderboard. Um, she lost for the first time, so she's a bit upset. So she's catia. So a lot of people take part and then we're going almost like in the UK top gear people do race plap.

She came second this time, which is that's funny man. Well, you know you're a you're a multi hyphen it sort of renaissance man. You know, you've you're a teacher, you're an author, you're on television. What is it about doing all these different things that appeals to you rather than just sort of staying in one lane. I think it's my hyperactive mind. How by that I find it hard

to focus on one thing. Thing is I do work hard, and I'm very diligent, but I find if I'm doing one task for a long period of time, I get distracted. And I think the stems from my childhood of going to the local library. So my dad used to take myself and my younger brothers and one elder brother to the library and he set us there for three or four hours, saying, explore, read anything, and I get a book from on the Aztecs civilization, on Victorian engineering, the

fiction of Tolkien. But I would I would find it hard to stay on one book from one and like half and forty five minutes, I'd be like two thirds do I know what's gonna happen next book, and I think from then my my mind's always dotted things. It's great for dinner parties, annoying for things that PhD the season you're meant to be focusing on. Well, it's interesting because you know, you and I record these intros separately, so people will have a little background on on who

you are and how we met. But uh, you, uh, you were kind enough to sit with Josh and I when we did our our book of it for the for the store there in England, and I think I just felt a real kinship we both did, because yeah, there it is. There's the book. Because you that's sort of the nature of our show too, to jump around

and cover all these different topics. And I started diving into your life a little more and what you've done with your former university Challenge rival Eric Monkman, and saw some of the like TV things that you did and like the Good Morning Britain, and I was like, man, I just I've been there before, Like when Josh and I have done these TV opportunities is kind of the smart guys, and you have these two kind of goofy TV people that aren't really taking you seriously and it's

you just you guys do a great job at doing that stuff. But I really could identify, yes, because I often find um less so when I'm by myself, but when we're with the pairing the Monk Went and Seagull, the Genius Guide branding as it were with the BBC. Often on TV shows, they're trying to almost shows up like, okay, you might know eso technoledge about you know the top albums of the year, or um the longest Shakespeare play,

but do you know the price of milk? Right? And and the things it annoys them because often I I think I like my high brow knowledge, which is what high school college trivia is all about, learning about your classics, your mythology, science, your literature. But I also like my trash, like I love watching Terrible Things and Netflix from coms, really bad cheesy eight pop music. So it means I'm actually like I am an academic, I'm very serious academic, but I'm also a silly academic too as well, if

I can. Yeah, they do the same thing to us me and what is it we we go on these shows sometimes and they're just like, okay, smart guys, like they want to knock us down a peg almost, and it's all the spirit of fun, but it's annoying and I just have to buy but sort of bite my lips and be polite because I wanted to be invited back, so I can't say what you're trying to. I thought, you you don't like dumb people, you don't like smart people. Who do you like? Yeah, exactly so, And we'll get

to the film. You know, this first part is about your life for a bit. But um, you did pick a movie that had to do with University Challenge, which is I mean, how long has that show been around? It's it's sort of a cultural phenomenon in the UK, right, absolutely so, it's I did a bit of Wiki Peter or googling on this, and it's not I thought it was. I used to always say before this conversation, it's the oldest running quiz show in the world. It's not. It's

actually second. There's something in America called It's Academic. It's a high school show, and that was nineteen sixty one, I think, and this is two. But it's it's the oldest in the UK, definitely the oldest one beyond high school. For Chris Shows UM and I I think it's one of the unique things. It's already had two presenters in its entire history, one guy called bamber Gas going for twenty five years and he's like school masterly quite supportive

for twenty five years. Weirdly enough, the show had seven years where it went off screens and it got and it got brought back up and itually I actually interviewed Stephen Fried the poly Math for another show and he was asked to be the host of the new the new version of it, but he turned it down and it took on a really tough interview called Jeremy Patsman and he's been the hosts ninety four and he's he's regarded as I a really mean pantomime villain. He's Mellard

a bit in his elder years. But yeah, so it's two years, two different hosts UM and like in the UK when other people like I've got cousins who live in America, in India, the Middle East, and when they come to the UK as well, let's look at you know, the Queen Wimbledon, UM, the Beatles University Challenge and eventually beyond their list of things are quintessentially, it's really cool. I watched Actually You're one of your episodes. I did quite a bit of youtubing today and I watched UM Jeez,

I think it was episode thirty five. It was one where it was you versus the team Monkman and you guys end up losing in the end, and but I watched the whole episode and it was It's pretty riveting stuff to watch one of those. It's like, it's because I get well in sport, isn't it? And it's just it draws the audience and people and the way it works in the UK, they start broadcasting from about July and it goes all the way every Monday eight thirty

on BBC all the way through to April. So people start following these teams and these individuals, and people start for following the personalities. Like in my series UM, people started following Emmanuel College, Cambridge and Seagull the Captain and Monkman and Will set out the following and people said could they face off? Could what if they face off? And then by the time our game came around, we had personalities like Louis through Stephen fry or saying are

you monk, when are you Seagull? And then the media hyped it up um and actually was the most watch match of Universe Challenge this century not your last century. Again. I guess television had bigger audiences in the seventies and eighties audiences like outrageous, like billions, but for modern TV

was huge audience. Um. I think it's the funny thing is that that match I had, they recorded the semifinal and final, and the same morning I was just thinking about the final and I got my outfit ready and I was thinking, how am I going to lift the trophy if I get there? And I slightly lost focus on what you're meant to do. Win the match now and then deal with the final. But Erica was like focus. He was like, I got to win this match, then deal with the final later. But I was just thinking

about the trophy too early on. Well, I mean, did I see the final match then? Oh no. This is the thing is even to this day people often introduced me on teley shows in the UK. They'll say, oh, buts Egal, he must he must have won the show because he's made a career out of it. And I know I didn't win. Oh so you're the finalist. No, no, no, no semifinal. Okay, I think that's what I saw. I think my teammate he ended up losing in the final, but not the winners were very worthy and actually they

got some formidable quizzes. But people seem to remember that match as the sort of It wasn't the final, It was a semifinal, but it was like the memorable match of the series. It was a lot of fun to watch, um now do now? You and Eric became sort of friends after that and partners and ended up doing a couple of cool docuseries for the BBC. Do most University Challenge contestants go on to be celebrities or did you guys just work it? This is okay, this is unexpected.

So since sixty two the show has been on, there have been personalities that have been former contestants, like Stephen Fry. He was a finalist for Queen's College, Cambridge. Oh he was an actual contestant. Yes, he was an actually contestant. Um so he did very our top quizzer, but he built his media career like ten fifteen years after it. It was like an incidental part. Whereas for Eric and I, I think it's a combination of many things. Um, social

media had become really powerful by then. I think Twitter was it two thousand and six SyncE theory. Twitter had been there for ten seasons before, but by our season had built up sort of like a critical massive interest of followers, and the media would pick up on what would go on Twitter and then in our series. Normally every series is like a standout contestant and the realities they get ten fifteen minutes of fame on the day of the final and they're not a couple of nice local,

local interviews and that's it. But I think what made our series different was Eric. One is, Eric was probably the single most meaned contestant ever on the series, but a long country ViOS so he by himself. He you know,

he's transformed the way people think of the series. But in my series, we all said again, I'm not gonna blow on trumpet, but I offered a different sort of personality and I went I think I went viral as well on my second match, and it was remember I was teaching part time and doing my master's part time. I turned the next day at school and my kids all saying this, you're trending number one and UK Twitter

your Instagram. So I went viol as well, and over the course of the months that the matches played out, both of us kept on violing, and then when we played each other, it's like Twitter and meldown go like doing like he's like rumbling the jungle with Yeah, well, I mean you're It's it's sort of the classic uh and the same. It's true for TV and movies, like the classic odd couple. In a way, Um, he's this Canadian, which I didn't expect when I first started watching the show.

I kind of just thought everyone would be British or whatever. But um, you know the way just the physical appearance of you two guys together, it's kind of a fun juxtaposition. And I can see how it became you became this

sort of media duo afterwards, you know, it makes sense. Yeah. So, and I think one thing people don't realize that Eric and I actually were friends before recording, really, because what happens is in the sort of UK trivia college university scene, teams or get selected so back in the sixties, seventies, eighties, even nineties, even early naughties, quizziness sort of regardless an amateur gentleman, you sort of turn up no revision, you

just like effinently sort of woff through the questions, like I'm sure Stephen Friday. But nowadays, partly because of in America, quizin is very competitive. They've got scholarships to the top ivy league universities. UK is not UK still regardless a bit like an amateur gentleman, but it's become more professionalized in the sense of teams practice prepare um. And again

we would have weekly practice sessions at Cambridge. You know, Monkman's team, my team playing in mini tournaments, so by the time you went to actually face off on TV, we knew each other really well. And actually Monk and I we had multiple facetoffs in Cambridge. There are times he would win, times my team would win. Times his team would storm away, all the times my team would run away, So we knew it would be like it could go on either sort of almost a flip with

the coin in that particular day. But we knew each other very before the series, which is why I think our partnership sort of developed on social media as well. Well. And you were both team captains, which I know is good for drama and press and everything too, because uh, and I guess traditionally you sit in that that third spot is that where the captain sits. Yes, always, um, they have a captain there, and interestingly the way they

pick teammates around the captain is strategic as well. Sometimes you put the solo loan thinker on the far left hand side. In fact, we've had some of the best ever contestants on the far left because you will leave them as like a lone wolf buzzing in. But then they don't really get involved the discussions, but they just buzzing.

And then often you get the science person on the right hand side on the far corner, next to the captain because science knowledge is quite niche she he doesn't need to he or she doesn't need to be involved with the rest of the team, and you get the sort of buzz bubbly person in the middle maybe, or sometimes you get someone who might be the opposite gender in the middle to the captain to make the team more diverse or like a four me like, you try

and work out what's the OPTI seeding for your team. Well, it seemed like the guy for this from you, he was kind of what was his name, So is this there's two it was this the guy with glasses. Al there two guys, but blonde hair or dark hair. Blond hair. Yes, so he was like our killer. You could tell that he Yeah, Hill, he was in his own sort of zone. He know this is phenomenal. He I don't think in the entire series buzzed in incorrectly once once and it

rab is normally. The thing is in the game, you occasionally you've got to gamble and take risks um and then you've got the team question the bonuses where the team bonuses a lot depends on the captain trying to steer the discussion, which I really enjoyed. But Thomas Hill, on the far right, he would just sit there quietly buzz away and yeah, he he was a it was

an artist story. Historians had that breadth of knowledge. Yeah. Well, it's interesting that it's almost like a trope, the different um sort of personality types that go into being regarded as like a really smart person and someone who seeks knowledge.

And I think that, I mean, I think that's one one real reason why you really broke out is because your personality is so infectious and you're so excited and enthusiastic about everything and you kind of break the mold and not to stereotype too much, but there are a lot of like sort of quiet, bookish types that you can tell are petrified to be on television. And you're in there with your suit and you look cool and like you've got a great smile, and I can see

why people like latched on. It's pretty cool. Yeah, thank you. I think I'd like to sort of think that inadvertently I was sort of bringing geek back into Chic and some parts of England, because you know, it's all pre recorded. It's the recorded between February April over over academic year, and it's broadcast in July. So people often think that you sort of put on a personality based on how Twitter responds to you. You have no idea because all

prerecorded and then it's broadcast. But again, now I always think now, since Monkman and myself, contestants almost go on the show now, so almost a bit unfairmly because now there's expectation who's going to be the new Monk Wan, Who's going to be the new c Gun. But when I went down on monk foint event and we went on with the objective we'd love to do well, we'd love to win. And again, because I'm a part time high school teacher, I thought, wouldn't it be cool to

bring the trophy back to school? But beyond that, I didn't think. I thought, maybe fifteen minutes of my local paper, that's it. I didn't quite expect any of that. Again, I wouldn't speaking to you today if it weren't for the sort of snowball effect of that series. Well, and you know you've I think you're you really kind of went in uh sensible directions with it. As far as the BBC series looks really cool and I look forward to watching it. Can we watch that here in the States?

Is that available? So it's a BBC I player thing and they haven't. Surprisingly, they have not put it out to any of the other like Netflix. There is a there is a Canadian I will find a Canadian link, which is like a free thirty day trial and things. People do put it on YouTube. BBC often like they'll find it. I'll make sure you get a link so you can see. I'll make sure so Chuck Bryant gets a special link that's in America. Get on emails that Director General BBC in England and say why is not

released in the US on Netflix or whatever. Well, I mean the nature just for the listeners, the nature of the show. The two series are you and You're, like I said, former rival in our friend Eric Monkman, sort of road tripping around the UK UM just kind of seeking out cool historical places and and like being fun and also talking about smart stuff. And it seemed to have been very well received. Yes, we've had two series so far. So we filmed the first one UM straight

after the summer of University Challenge. We filmed Universe Challenge seventeen. We did a pilot that summer and the voice of the pilot was Stephen Fry. This is actually the first time it was in public. But I think we couldn't afford him for the real one. You know, maybe they could, but he didn't work out. We had what's his name o God Heroic Boy, Simon Simon Callo. Simon Simon Callo Callo. Yes, yeah, I don't know. You'd be like, these guys are dreadful.

Simon Callo is weird because he narrates sing Bobby and Derek get out of the car and off to the Science Museum, and it's just like my life being narrated heroic fashion, and I had for a few weeks after the show came out, I had friends mocking me, there is Bobby now going to be a couple of tea. He put the milk in before the hot water. Who knows? That's great, That's so funny. That'd be like if like James Earl Jones was walking around narrating my life over here.

That's pretty cool. So let's switch gears to talk about your teaching career. What great do you teach? And what does teaching mean to you? My my parents were both teachers. My father was my elementary school principle, my mom was an elementary school teacher, and I my sister has an education degree. I always kind of thought I was going to be a teacher, and in a weird way, I kind of ended up being a sort of teacher. But, um, what does teaching mean to you? So the way I

got into teaching is a slightly roundabout way. Um, even though I don't think there's such thing as a born educator, but I've always been someone that's enjoyed sharing ideas with people. If I learned something, I want to teach it to someone else parties because being with the family of I'm one of four boys, so we always encouraged to discuss things. But actually, after university, my first career was an investment banking. Again. I'm a NUM. I'm a mass graduate, mass and econg graduate.

I went to Lehman Brothers, which in the UK now people are not quite Lehman Lehman, but America everyone knows Lehman Brothers. I was a trader there, not a good choice of bank as it turned out, but I joined Leman share president down. But I did the same job at a Japanese bank called Nomura. Then I moved to p w C Price Wae House Coopers Um. In the UK they call it charted the account that see in America they might call the c p A the guys that do the public accounts for all the big corporates.

And I thought, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be a corporate guy. This seems like, you know, I quite enjoy it. You make you know, you you earn a good salary. But when I was at p WC, and this is all like a pinch point in my life, I took a mini sabbatical to teach new graduates. So these were children one three year old, Um, not kids, but kids just left college and I taught them for about two a couple of months to three months, and I absolutely loved it. Chuck Wants. I enjoyed my corporate job. A

couple of my siblings work in the corporate sector. But I found like I came to life and I thought, this is what I've got to do. And then I went to university, back to university again, did my teacher training, my masters at Cambridge, and that's when I did my uh experience, the university challenge and life to return but interesting my when I joined teaching, when I changed careers, my plan was to be a career, full time teacher because I loved educating. I love teaching because I think,

you know, there's an add about master Card. There are many things master Card can buy for other things. What does the end what does they say, their priceless moment for everything else there's master Card. Yeah, yeah, so mineus that the prices moments that master Card can't buy. As a teacher, when you're teaching a child, the concept usually a mask, but I sort of teach other subjects as well if I can, UM, and you see there's sort

of the lightbulb switch on. You're like, they finally get it, and they finally understand in Pythagoras there and you went the square roote at the end, They're like ah, and You're like, yes, you feel that great sense of satisfaction

and teaching offered that to me. UM And again, I when I go back into full time teaching at some stage, possibly, but I think now my public from the UK is better served as some of that teaches every week in the school but spends a lot of time in the public doing work promoting library usage, numerousy campaigning again I do I don't know the campaign recently around the digital dividing kids that don't have access to laptops or broadband.

So I sort of used my platform UM in a way which being a teacher, I've got the access because if I was a full time teacher, I wouldn't have time to do the campaigning all the extra work. But if I was just a full time media personality as it were, I would lose the sort of authority I have of being a classroom presence. Uh and what grade are you teaching? Oh? Grade? I teach all the way

from seventh to twelve. That's pretty great. Yeah, so pretty kids have just left um in the UK in the middle school you guys would call it in Yeah, elementary school or middle school into high school. Yeah, and kids all the way to the ones who apply to before university or college. And I think that I love the breath because of the young kids who are eleven twelve. They've got this sort of blue Skies optimism night. So you can just tell them children, we're gonna learn about

what the sky is bloom. But yeah, this seagull about the number zero. Yeah, this is the seagull. They love it. The kids in how they get a bit cynical on this daye that I looking at about irrational lumbos and the silence Stone did reaction, try and bring my personal de Stone did reaction. When they get a bit older, sixteen, at that stage they're thinking about college and then they stopped becoming these young adults. They can challenge you, they

can they can overrule you that they they're bright young adults. Actually, it's a variety that I love. That's really cool. It's I have a daughter who's going on six and it's hard as a parent to to try and not ram too much down their throat. She's a curious kid, but it's hard and they are sponges. They can they can handle a lot of input, but I have to regulate

myself to not overdo it. And we were in the car the other day and I was she saw a hearse and uh, these new modern hearses just look really cool and interesting of it here and she said, what is that? What kind of car is that said, oh, well, you know, that's a hearse And they take care of the very important job they take care of when people die. They transport the body to the funeral, and it's a

very important job because people are upset. And I told her about funeral homes and then that led somehow to talk about uh mountain that she pointed to a hill, and I started talking about elevations and then cartography and I said, boy, I'm really kind of said, let me know if I should slow down, kid though, if I'm teaching you too much, And she said, Daddy, what would I do without you? And I was like, man, that

that's just like that's all I need to hear. And then but that was also her cue, her queue to move on to to like sing a silly song or something like that. That's that's I think. Um, parents are I always telling us a teacher. Obviously, as teachers we also have a huge role Monday to Friday in this class. But parents there, I think they're still the biggest influence because they're the ones that kids learned sublimeantly home, over dinner,

over watching movies, the little conversations, the holidays. So parents are so crucially parents I engaged with their children's learning. As a teacher, it makes my life so much easier. And the ones that, well, you have to be and I think there's more of that now than ever. I feel like when I was growing up, I'm a bit

older than you ensure that. I mean, there were certainly parents back then that we're super engaged, but I think a lot of parents just sort of drew that line and they were like, no, you go to school and that's where you learn the stuff, and then come home and then you know, stay in your room and play or whatever. Parents are way more involved now, I think. Yeah.

I think technology also plays a part now. There are lots of people posting on Instagram or on TikTok how they educated children's and those are like a social media pressure to be good educator. Yeah, yeah, Well, before we move on to the movie, I also want to talk a little bit about math and numbers and um this is something that on stuff you should know has always been a a thing with Josh and I because neither one of us are very good at math. Josh really tries. Um,

I never had much of an interest in math. My brother did, was an aerospace major for a little while at Georgia Tech and then got out of that, but was always really gifted in math, but I was not, And I just it just never clicked with me. But you love numbers and maths so much that you wrote a book about the magic of numbers and just talk about that. What what? What are people missing out on? Why do you love it? So actually, for me to tell you how I got into maths a fascinating little story.

So in the UK, um in the sort of mid nineties. Um, it's still popular now, but a lot of boys and girls collected soccer sticker books for sticker books. So these are weat things that you peel off and stick in and often in the playgrounds and schools you try and swap ones that you need and you might go got got, got need, and you get really exciting. You do it in trade and it's also popular nowadays, but it's still there. They still do the stick as Panini. I think it's

a brand that does it globally. Um, but often boys and girls that have conversations about which players are better the other. And what I found is often would just be they would shout loudly, go uh, he asked them, why do you think that plays better? Because I said so, and because I'm like, I'm five five, I'm sure, And then there would be taller than me. I'd like, okay,

you're right, and I'll just go. What I found is these sticker books were treasure trolls of information contained the names, ages, heights, goal scored, left foot penalties, substitute appearances, all the sort of micro level detail about these players. When bear in minds is a sort of early mid nineties, I took all the data from all the twenty four teams in the in the English Premier League input into an early version of Excel, and my one of my friends made

this is this is crazy? I think, I was, yeah, again, this is my I get obsessed by things from time to time. This is my obsession football stickers and data. But my friend had this conversation saying, there's a player called Ian Right, it's actually quite prominently the UK. Now he's actually a game show host. Now Ian write a footballer for Arsenal Football Club. And one of my friends said a player called Southampton's Matthew Lutzia we also is

a television host. Is a He said, Matthew Lutzier Southampton is a better striker than Ian Wright. And I said why is that? And he said, because it is because I say so. And then I went I did a little simple interrogation on my my database spreadsheet, and I went back the next day and I told my friend, actually I did a little investigation and he s took out the number of goals for penalties this season. Even Wright's actually more effective player in the field. My friends

like m probably, actually that's a good point. And you know what, it didn't make me popular, but but showing me, Chuck and my friends the power of numbers, because the world is very subjective, is often about vehetoric and who's got the best argument, who can flavor it with lovely sort of stylistic flourishes but numbers, we can look at it. Okay, now I know we've COVID people can some of dressed up numbers, but we could look at the same number

and agree what we're looking at. And that opened up for me a world where I didn't need to be tall, I didn't need to be stronger. I could just understand look at the numbers and make the arguments come to life that way. And what was the name? Was it? The Magic of Numbers? Was that the title of the book the like the life changing Magic of Numbers, Because for me, it's about how numbers are magical, but actually

how it can help change your life. Because there are a lot of kids out there who maybe I feel a bit withdrawn ice stage and their peers, but they find with nothing numbers, they really get excited. And they should all know that there are loads of other kids around there, across high schools and all the states in the US, across the world, that have the same passion for them. Because in sometimes in elementary school and in high school, kids can feel, oh, I don't think there's

anyone else like me. I feel like I'm I'm one of the kind. But actually, in the real world there's so many people who've got passions for esoteric hobbies and and fascinations. That's amazing, man, you're quite an individual. Like I feel like you've become sort of an ambassador for for knowledge and curiosity. And it's really a cool lane that you found yourself in. I think, thank you chucking. I sort of like to think in twenty years, who

would I like to be? Um, I'm actually getting I was gonna say gray, I'm actually getting a few gray us. But again here's another top secret admission. I actually do pluck out the odd white hair. I pluck it out because for now, in a few years I won't be able to, but for now so just to keep my my black beard and hair look. But the person I'd love to be is in about five years. It's almost like a version of Stephen Friday. Because UK he's regarded

as the sort of polymathic ambassador for knowledge. You know, he talks about Greek culture, you can talk about science, you can talk about education, you can talk about politics, and he's got this really beloved role in the UK. People see him as a voice of authority and a

voice of reason. In fact, one of the things that he's done I'm actually following in his footsteps quite almost quite literally is he's been the champion for UK libraries, so promoting the role of libraries and importance of making in the UK libraries have an often has sort of budgets cut and the asome too communities the main Yes, it's a real tragedy because I think more than just the books, these are community centers. But Stephen Fry has

been campaigning for them. And then the Libraries Organization heard about the way that I became knowledgeable through libraries and my weekends they're visiting reading all sorts of books, and they asked me to take on the role from Stephen Fry. So I can quite literally see myself on the sort of role like in my job now is liked a lot of work lobbying Parliament, the House of Lords in the UK, organizing petitions events, trying to get people to

use libraries. Um. So yeah, I would love to be someone where people need like an educational campaign or supporting something from knowledge they're like in twenty years or not even twenty years, less than that. Bobby Seagulls a guy, That's why I love That's amazing. Do you have a podcast yet? I have. I have one called Maths Appeal, which with a fellow maths teacher called Susan okarik Is.

She's her parents and Nigerian. She's if actually's raised in East London, like I am, so my parents Indian, but I'm born and raised in East London. So it's called Maths Appeal and we're trying to show maths is quite fun and engaging. So it's always like a mathematical female version of me as a high school each sort of. That's funny. When we write our scripts for the podcast, we we've got a rough idea, but we've got this thing called vibing where we go off script and they're

the best bits. Yeah yeah, I know about that. Well, we came on tangents where we just start talking about our life or whatever. Yeah, I should use that word because we call it vibing, but as mathempetitions, I should call it tangents. That makes sense. Time I make that. Next time, I'm gonna make it. Say so, Susan and I we're going off from now, We're not vibing. We're gonna go from a tangent like yeah, well, and our

listeners like the people I think love the tangents. But we'll hear from people You're like, just stick to the fact, man, we don't want to hear about your life and what you have for breakfast. I love those bits, by the way. I love the middle Honestly, when I listened to you, I often listen to it when I'm parttling around doing the laundry, making breakfast, I feel like I'm in your

with the I'm in the room with you. It's like just yeah, and I feel and sometimes it feels to real because I might be like brushing my teeth and why is Chuck talking to you? Not chuckle for seconds? But your podcast goes around with me. Everyone cool man, Um, before we jump in real quick, I did want to ask, since I know you're a football fan, west Ham fan, that's how we first, um sort of bonded. I saw your west Ham jersey and my best friend grew up in Chiswick and as a west Ham guy from from

way back in the seventies and eighties. Have you seen Ted Lasso the TV show? Do you know about it? Why haven't this? Can Can I google this right now? Yeah?

It's uh, it's on it's an Apple plus, uh, like an original Apple TV production, and it's a Jason Sadakis is he was he was on Saturday Night Live here, and he plays an American football coach who goes to England to coach in the Premier League because the wife of the former owner is getting a divorce and she wants and he loves the football team and he she

wants to wreck the football team. So she hires an American football coach to come in there and you know, ostensibly do a really poor job, but it turns out he's a really great coach. He doesn't know soccer, but he's a good motivator. And it's just it's one of the most heartwarming fun shows. And it's it was shot in London, it's shot in some of the real stadiums. It's about the Premier League, it's about darts, it's about you know, Ted Lasso T. E. D. L A. S. S. Oh,

that's his name. How have I never heard? You should check it out. It's a really fun show. It's good. My first article Ted Lasso is the perfect Apple TV Plus show. Yeah, it's it's a lot of fun, especially if you're a Premier League fan. Oh my god. Yeah. In fact, like um one reason why I'd love to work in the States. At some stages, I love soccer, men's soccer, men's football, so I got again as a child if out their boys on my elementary and secondary

school to end up being professionals. I've got some a very strange story where I'm someone that's played against Prince Harry and English for England international footballers. I was in the state school in East London, like a public school, and I got a scholarship to Eaton College for my A levels and even we call it public school, so

your public schools are private school. So I played against both but um in So obviously men's football is by initially followed, but the last few months I started getting into women's football big time. And actually I'm sort of jealous because I've watched games in England that it's called the Women's Super League. It's like Premier League equivalent, but I watched equivalent games in the US. The stadiums are packed out for women's games, and here I think the

UK will follow. I think we'll follow that in the next ten twenty years. Women's games will get packed out because it's a sport that's professional. Only the last couple of years has become a professional top league. So when you will see and one day we'll beat the US. We lost to the US and the Women's Soccer World Cup semifinal to one. We had a penalty to bring it back. So maybe the next time England will be

the Americans. Well that is interesting here because the women's U. S national team has been good for a while now and the men's team has always been crap. And you know, it's I think the following is probably uh, it feels like it's bigger and this is just anecdotal. It feels

like the women's national team is bigger here. But you know, soccer's it's a big deal here now, Like uh, it's really like most of my friends are all their kids play soccer and it's um, you know, uh during like the the euro Cup, in the Premier League finals and certainly the World Cup. They are local bars here that are just packed out, you know, people on the you know, standing room only, people on the street watching the big

screens and it's it's it's a lot of fun. I mean that's what I watch is Generally I don't follow Premier League much, but I do follow the World Cup and uh, and the f A Cup and stuff like that a little bit. So when you're in the UK, I'll take you to your first Premier League. Dude, I'm all over it. I want my buddy Justin. Heill have to come if we go see west Ham. That is all right. So you picked the movie starter for ten, a movie I had not heard of that is from

two thousand six. It's kind of a coming of age UM comedy drama slash. It's almost like a sports film in some ways too. It's got a little rocky karate kid element to it. UM. And it is a movie that had I mean, I think it's kind of known now as being the small indie film who had a huge cast of future stars in it, UM, who were

all sort of getting started at the time. I think, yeah, it's crazy because when it came out in two thousands and six and I saw it, a couple of names up I I recognize, UM like Mark Gatis was somewhere there there about Um, Charles Dance was around. But the people like um, uh, James McAvoy been come about, James Cordon, you know who. They weren't named at the time I was, And then some of them have gone on to James Gordon. I was huge in the US. Um I didn't even

recognize him in this movie. Actually, my god, it's great because he came from something called Gavin and Stacy was larger than life character, quite literally larger than life. And watching if people want to see James Cordon before he became James Gordon, this is the film to see. Because I watched again recently the film and I was thinking of my cousin that is not James Gordon. Well, I knew he was in it, and about halfway through I was like, when it is James Cordon going to show up?

And then in the scene where he goes back to his hometown, I was like, oh my god, that's him. He's the sort of metal longer metal head. Oh god it was. But even in this film, like other like I always think the directors of the casting directors were playing a bit of games because um, they're like a Sherlock connection because Bendic Comberbatch ends up becoming Sherlock. And then Mark Gatis, who's the character that plays the quiz master, he's microft in the Sherlock Holmes and as the mother,

the mother of the posh girl, Alice. She's a character in Sherlock, a lady small Wood. So they've got three people unite later in Sherlock. So so so I don't know whether it's a Sherlock host having watched the show thinking here's some characters I could cost, or his total coincidence. Well, I mean it was great casting. Also has Alice Eve, who went on to do a lot of things. Rebecca Hall, who is great. I've always had the biggest crush on Rebecca Hall same year. Can I admit that publicly? I

think we all can that she's very Yeah, she's very crushable. Uh, and Dominic Cooper um, all these young faces been in a cumber Batches has a sort of a small part. I mean, he's certainly not the lead at all, but he's very funny in this movie, which is something you don't see a lot out of him. I guess he's kind of funny. Is doctor strange with his one liners? But uh, there are a couple of like physical comedy

bits in this with him that are really funny. When I first when I first sort of saw Bennedy come back in this film again with the name nowadays, it's hard to know because in my mind. I'm sort of applying my going all of course Bene did to come back. He's going to be this great actor. But in that film, he's like this upper class itmost like a twit, very pretentious,

very snobby, looks down on people. But again he's got this weird it's got this weird sort of vulnerability to him as well, because he loves knowledge and he want he wants to be praised, he wants people to love him for his knowledge. Um. And I think he played it really well because he combines a sort of brashness of a public school actually you'd call it private school in England. We got a public public school boy, but at the same time, he's got this vulnerability of someone

that's maybe been bullied throughout his life. Yeah, and it's also a story too, which is one of my favorite kind of um themes in the movie is a good will Hunting had this a little bit where you have the really smart guy from kind of the working class um section of England and he's, uh, he's got these friends that that he can either let sort of drag him back and hold him back with them, or he

can break away and do the hard thing. And you know, it's sort of sad, but sometimes you need to sort of sort of lop it off and had that separation if you really want to go on and achieve something in life and leave that those guys behind, kind of like in good Will Hunting and you really, you really root for for Brian in this movie to do that, like you know, those guys aren't gonna lead him anywhere

good you know. Yeah, because again at the start of the film, before he heads off to university, we see Brian James mcvoice character hanging out with Dominic Cooper Spencer and James Cordon. You can see that the other ja again it is James Corden. Trust me, any scene it's Cordon.

They're lying, they're lying, know it is James Gordon. But you see them and you think, okay, Um, James mc voice character Brian, you can sense it's like a knowledge and there's a passion for learning, just don't have Actually, it's interesting that this film is set in the eighties and in the UK when we started. It's sort of been forgotten a bit now, but the eighties was a very challenge time for the UK. The Margaret Thatcher, polarizing,

um opinionated, prime ministers, the people's perception of her. Some people love her, some people hate her. So this film is almost like a commonly on social change in the

UK because we're seeing these mingling of classes. University is the Brian Jackson's very working class in fact in the film is from a place called South End, which is in Essex, which is like proper like east of east landon in it like Mary Poppins, you know that Dick van Dyke a bit like that, more exaggerated and he got the yeah, his one of his romantic interests as he's like, oh, hello, how do you do? And the captain. So it's like, yeah, we see this class of cultures

in this film. Yeah. And it was also a time where um, and I think they portray it pretty well is in the eighties when um sort of the student activists were really starting to get much more involved. I think that happened that in the sixties and it seemed to kind of go away a bit in the seventies and then in the eighties with nuclear disarmament and green peace and all these like great new causes. Uh. And Rebecca Hall is obviously the character that's you know, socialist

Jewish student activist and it's it just it really reminded me. Um. I started college in nine, so it was a little bit after this, but that time when you go off to school and you're on your own for your first time, and you're and especially I was a little sheltered, I

guess from the suburbs of Atlanta. But to see all these people involved in doing these things that I had never heard of, and your mind is just exploding with not only stuff you're learning in class, but just socially being aware of everything, and it's just such a rich, sort of exuberant time. And I think he really captures that well in this film. Yeah, because again, if you look at many reviews of this film, they often talk

Clubbing a coming of age film. It is. It is ultimately a film about a boy that's leaving is sort of working class roots and trying to find his way in the world, and he's experiencing all the sort of turbulent emotions are teenager that's moving from being a adlescent to a young man, his first maybe his love, his kiss, and first relationship, all these things coming together in a new environment. Um, and you're kind of rooting for this guy, like come on you you really you really want him

to do well? Yeah, and you know he's going to mess up, and he does mess up kind of constantly throughout the movie. Uh. And I think it's just identifiable as a character. I think so many of us have been there to where you're, you know, eighteen, nineteen, twenty years old, and I mean you're just figuring out life and and who you are at that point. That's really

where I think people begin that journey of self discovery. Yeah, and again I would like to think of how would this film have been if they made it in the twenty twenties, because when Brian is going to university, even the way he finds out about the trials for the Universe Challenge Team is little poster on the Warters. Nowadays, kids kids, college kids might find it on on Instagram

story TikTok story that the students union post. So how I wasn't intriguing to think how would the Brian Jackson be now in one rather than in the nineties, because the same kind of working class how will they interact with this environment? Yeah, I mean cell phones kind of screwed it all up. Smartphones. You know, it's fine to go back and see these movies from the era where everyone was engaged with one another and uh no, one's just you know, it's disappointing to see crowds of kids

today sitting around staring at phones. You know, it's tough. And I'm sure it's a teacher, you boat all that. Yeah, that's things. There are times when we tell kids to use their cell phones to activities, like if they're doing

an interactive task. But then there are times their kids on their lap and you can see their face slightly lit up and like I got you, I got you, and you walk around them, you stand behind the shoulders, stand behind like a pantomime villain, you and I. Everyone's like this as he goes there, right, I got you. Get your book out attention tonight. Yeah. Yeah, because they're so absorbed in the phone they don't even know you're

behind him. No, they don't care because um. It is also a love story, like you said, and it's sort of the classic movie love story where you have these two people um to choose from and he's you know, one is sort of like I guess, the more traditionally beautiful um Alice Eve that's on his quiz team. And then you have Rebecca Hall, like I said, this socially conscious admit she's never had many boyfriends, and it's sort of focused on her her social activism and schoolwork. But

you sort of know. I mean, it's how these movies go, and that's what we love about movies, like you know who he's gonna end up with. But I think that stuff doesn't matter when it's well done, Like it's the journey that is so enjoyable. Yeah, And I think these two characters they played so well because you've got they do seem like polar opposites. Um and Brian when he first enters and he sees interesting I've read the book. The book is slightly different. Um. They they he meets

the characters earlier on. But in the film, there's like this clastic scene where Alice enters the examination room and Brian just suddenly stops dead and sees her like flashing a move, sort of part brushing her hair, walking through the room, like you know he's going to fall in love with this girl. Of course, but we're still again. I was rooting for Rebecca, thinking, Okay, Alice is there, but I felt I thinks Alice did have this while she was the sort of posh, blonde, um upper middle

class character. She didn't still have likability about her. She wasn't like a mean, mean girls type character. Yeah, and I think that was That's what you see a lot in movies, is that sort of trophy character where she is uh, just beautiful, but but kind of snobby and snobbish. And she really kind of stays in the running as it were. I think as a as a viewer, Um, they don't tip the hat too early until you know it.

Shill she betrays him at the end, and even then she's not seen as a super villainous type of character. More like her true colors just kind of came out and she's really not right for him when she when she sleeps with Spencer. Yeah, I think it's quite It's more it gives us more nuanced rather than black and white approach to life, which is reality of how many

people's college experience will be. You know, you might like a girl she turns you down, but then she's not gonna be some evil mastermind planning Ah, I'm going to dump you in front of the whole campus and put a poster of you crying at the break up. No, that that's you know, that's that's exactly it was. In real life. It's more like, ah, it didn't quite work out,

there's someone else more suited to him. Um So I think I think it's a fan depiction of maybe real life rather than Yeah, I could have seen it going a little more in the other direction. I think if it were a Hollywood film, it probably would have been studio interference would have gotten involved and made it a bit more I don't know, just extreme with all that stuff. But I thought the you played it out in a pretty nice subtle way, uh in this movie. Very definitely

well done. I think the soundtrack we should talk about a little bit. I love the soundtrack. Oh it's so good. I mean that's my era. Man. I grew up in high school listening to The Cure and the Smiths and U Joy Division and just sort of everything echo when the Bunny Man, And there's a lot of Cure in this Yeah, if you don't like The Cure, can you watch this film? Who doesn't like The Cure? Though? My god, the thing is this film actually got me into eighties

music things. My elder brother, we live things like Michael Jackson, BROSSSS Bros. Is British thing is bross. For a while We're huge. They were like second to Marche Jackson for like a week in the world, and but they were a big, big deal in the UK. So we had a few bands in the eighties, eighties, nineties, but I only got into eighties music. I think to watching this film because I heard the soundtrack The Cure the Smith's Undertones, and I thought, hey, Bush, I thought, wow, this is

a great music. And when it kicks off the opening the song is um Casus Spade And when it kicks off with that, you're like, that sets the tone. You're you're you get the nostalgic feel, even if you're not from the eighties. Yeah, where the eighties is going to be set. There Actually one thing about the soundtrack. I think they used it in a spoof called have You

Are the Young Ones? Before Oh I Love the Young Ones? Yeah, So the Young Ones have a spoof of University Challenge and it's called Bambi Yeah, and it's like it's probably one of the honest I think that scene from the spoof Young Ones actually more famous than the show itself. Yeah, because they have like Stephen Fry, Hugh Laurie from House

Emma Thompson. So people are going to become mega styles and the um in that and I think that scene that episode actually starts off with the Motorhead song as well, so it's like, yeah, that probably was no accident. Um, the scene where I wanted to talk about where he's he finally is hanging out, I guess on New Year's

Eve with Rebecca. And by the way, I thought, you know their real names of Rebecca and Alice as their character names, and I thought, sometimes you do that, but I found out in the book that was their name, so it was just coincidence of casting. I guess. Yeah. But um, he's goes and spends sort of a um, disastrous New Year's Eve with Alice at his her parents

cottage in Suffolk, and um, he comes back. He ends up spending New Year's Eve with Rebecca and they're drinking a little bit and you can see where it's headed and they finally have that first kiss and you're like, this is it, this is it, and he calls her Alice and it's just like I didn't see it coming, and it was just I felt sick to my stomach after after I saw that so did I because I generally thought, okay, so now Alice is out of the picture.

He's from Rebecca. Rebecca, that's that's the truth. That's a real deepnection. It's all working New Year's Eve. And then when he does that, like and then you feel so sorry because you know that his mind is with Rebecca. But it's just literally a slip of the tongue, maybe a bit drunk. He didn't need it, and you can't come back from that though. But yeah, I was like, Rebecca, like, he didn't mean it. Why do you know he wants

to like you made for each other, don't even know. Yeah, that's so funny, how wrapped up you get in it too, because I was like, no, no no, no, don't stop. That was just a mistake. Um. And you know, he sees Alice and he goes and tells her he loves her, and this is after Spencer comes to visit, when he's hiding in the closet. But you don't even believe that he means it. You know, he doesn't even know what he wants. He's just sort of that kid that's just

sort of trying to be in love with anybody. It seems like, yeah, I think he's just he's just going with the sort of the waves. He feels like, oh, Rebecca's tell me down. I need to go to the person that I think loves me. Yeah, and maybe at this stage he doesn't even know what love is. Is lust for this character Alice. Um. And I'm sort of glad that Spencer was there doing the dirty behind his bat because yeah, it was he gave his clean break. You know, Alice is not into him. It was good

move on, he can move on. Yeah, and that that visit by Spencer is just um, it's a disaster too. And you know when he shows up, it's like, great, my old friend from back home is here. But it's that whole thing with a social class and the university student versus the guy that's you know, just from the working class, and you know it's not going to go well,

and it doesn't, but it doesn't happen. One of the funniest fights in movie history, I think with he invented at Cumberbatch at the party, one of the funniest fight scenes. It's like Bennedy coming Batch does this sort of like like a cartoon, like goes like a cartoon correct, Like it's very funny and then he gets cold. Cockton does that kind of slapsticky turned to camera when he gets knocked out. Yeah, and then yeah, it's a it was a mismatch mismatch there, and you know it sets up

that third act so well. I think when you know culminates in that, you know it could be the big soccer match or the big fight boxing match or whatever, and in this case, this university challenge. And I'm curious for someone who's been on the show, like, first of all, when did you watch this movie? Did you watch it back then? Not as early as two dozen six, I think a few years later, but well before I went on really, so yeah, well before Okay, so you saw

this before you went on watching it. Now after you've been on, what is it conjure up for you? I mean, how real is it? Oh? It thinks it's actually a very good depiction. So the author David Nichols, So, I had a little moment last week a couple of weeks ago where I had our starstruck because I did a tweet about saying, oh, I'm gonna watch Startup for ten again because I'm going to have a podcast chat with you about it and David Nichols replied back to me, saying,

oh you're not. You're an icon of the show. What an honor for him. So I feel I feel, I feel like our starstruck at that moment. You'll have to tweet this out. Yeah, he'll be, he'll be, He'll be through. So, David Nichols, thank you for writing a book that probably inspired many people to get into quizzing the game show because it's sort of immortalizes the show. It's part of the it's part of the folklore in the UK. And when I saw the film again, I've watched it before

once it once, I've seen it since. It's a brilliant depiction of the modes, the sort of the teams are. You know, teams can isn't. The production crew is wonderful, but teams can get a bit like competitive with each other, wanting to outdo each other. The tensions between the teams individually even between teams does exist. But I'll tell you what, the questions on the the book and the film were brilliant. And there's one thing that got edited out from my

actual episode, which I feel sad. In one of my earlier matches, possibly a quarterfinal, second round, we had a question that asked us about Eastles and I was like, I know this this on television. I said, this is from the or State, and I got I know this because I saw this on Start Off a ten. So I got a question by on the actual TV show because the start of A ten and I referenced Start Off a ten on the show itself. But the people who edited the show they edited out because they thought

it's too much of a cross reference. But tragedy. So I learned something which in the game show well was he was the author on the University Challenge or not Know, so he was at Bristol University, so which is why he set the characters. He may have even been at Bristol at the time University Challenge was off air, so it was off there from eighty seven to ninety four. And in the UK they called this the Lost Generation of Quizzes. Oh the ratings so sixty two back when

there's only literally BBC one and BBC two. The audiences are like huge, literally like everyone in the country would watch it. Over time, slowly the audience dipped went to like fifteen eighteen million, picked up again in the early eighties and in fact in the early eighties, and they even tried experimenting where they're a method called past the Batton, where you'd answer one question, then your teammate answers one, then your next team mate, and it was they're trying

to bring a bit of pizzazz and gland out. Audiences dropped off in seven got cut quite quite sadly, and then and it disappeared, and then seven years later people

said we should bring it back and again. One of the beautiful things of the show is that even if you watched again the game show on a Monday night and he watched the old version of sixty two, it's pretty much the same four ten points for a startup question, five points for bonuses, five points negative if you interrupt this music picture starter, twenty eight minute game show, much the same four. They're not tinkered with it, which is

why I think people love it in particular. You know, when the world changes so much, uvers challenges that sort of constant presence and actually, like I sort of put it out there before a few times, I'll put it out there again. So Bamber has been hosting the show since eight two, eight seven, twenty five years. Then Pactsman took over ninety four two to two thousand seven years, so he's now got the record. He's not looking tired, but he's like I think he's had enough when he does,

when he does retire. I've been publicly saying some social media a lot, but I'm putting my name in there but things. A lot of people think I'm too I'm not mean enough to be the whole, which is true. I couldn't be like Patsman bamber Gas going like the guy on the film. Mark Gatter's character was a bit more gentle, more supportive. He's like a schoolmaster, and I think I would bring back that vibe of supporting rather than Paxman's role has been like a it was like

a pantomime villain, like no, terrible yoyo. That's a stupid answer. I think that they think going in your direction would be a brilliant move, and I think that would be kind of a fun thing. I would love to see that happen. Good luck. I'll put in a word for you, thank you, thank you. I'm sending this podcast to the producers, like look, it's yeah, it's there, it's there an audio now, well,

I mean here in the States. You know, Jeopardy is such a big thing as far as this kind of thing goes, and you know, Alex Trebek passed away and there's been a lot of speculation about who is going to take over. And Ken Jennings, former like most successful contestant of all time, is doing one of the temporary guest hosting duties right now. And I think the choices like do you go with someone like Ken or do you go with someone who's not affiliated with the show

that's just a TV personality that's interesting. I think having someone a former contestant would be the way to go who understands loves the show that the audience is familiar with. I'm sort of backing myself here, but it's going to be either myself or Mr Monkman, one of us two. Well,

when is he Is he finished? Is he retiring? For I thinks he slowly retired his sort of media portfolio duties because in the UK most people obviously know if the University Challenge, But in the nineties and naughties he used to be the host of Newsnight on BBC and this is and he was renowned as the toughest political interviewer so politicians wanted to show that they could handle

sort of the funnesce of political debate. They're going to show and he there's a famous incident where a man called Michael Howard, who at one stage as the leader of the opposition party, and Patsman asked him the same question at twenty times and he asked, can you can you repeat that? Can you repeat that? The guy didn't the guy just in the end. It's like one of Patsman's most fierce moments. So Patsman eventually stepped down from that, So he's slowly reducing his He used to represent lots

of documentaries. This is the last thing, to be honest. The reason why I think he wouldn't want to give it up is this is like it keeps him on Teddy for thirty eight weeks, keeping he pays the pays the bills. It's a great job. But I think you down, I would look after so I would, Yeah, you would do a great job. So in the film, you know, uh, in the final match, there is that moment that um where he finds the questions uh as an audience. Remember,

I was mad that they weren't taking better care. I was mad that he was in that position to where he would just stumble upon the questions for the show, like, no, man, you gotta have that stuff locked away. You can't even leave it out like that. And he looks at the one question as all, and he messes up so bad by well by looking at it. He shouldn't have looked um, but he only looked at one question. He's not a cheater, and I feel like he was labeled a cheater unfairly.

You know, Oh no, this is this is a hot Like I was trying to think the heartbreaking moments this film does have a little bit of a roller Yeah, Like one of the one of them was when h the Rebecca moment. We talked about a New Year's Eve, and this is the one where I thought, like, yes, he's gonna win, he's gonna he's gonna it's gonna be the the film's gonna end on a positive note. And you know that's what you think is coming. Yeah, And

then the question comes out astronomy. Then he buzzes in before the questions come out and says, what was it? A big dipper person mage and reads the whole answer. Man. He's known this his whole life because he loves astronomy, and you just you feel terrible for him. And I do blame the production crew in the totally why do you leave this? Like again, I've been on the real show with their life there it's rubber banded up and he left it there was it? Yes, it was the

walk of the runnerut with the host. I blame him, don't blame James McAvoy, Yeah, because he and he didn't even look at any of all the answers and he knew the answer to this one too. It was just heartbreaking, man, because you're so, like you said, you're so set up for this heroic finish and Rebecca Hall is gonna run up on stage and they're gonna get married and lift the trophy and man, it's just it's really a gut punch at the end when he gets um sort of and I hate to say found out as a cheater,

but I think unfairly tagged as a cheater. Um. But it does lead to one of the funniest moments if he is when they lead him out of the studio into the street and he has to get into the ice cream truck. Oh God dares yes, the man that his mother Katain takes also a quite a huge sort of comics figure in the UK, and mother's married to this character, and you see like Rebecca wanting to sort of wave by the ice cream Man and they're like, oh dam yeah, he just that's he's that's that's the

absolute low. Actually, that would have been the final. So in the UK, one thing that didn't show the game show because he didn't get to the stage of the trophy. But they normally get a eminent academic or personality toward the trophy. So my season again there's another reason why I'm got it. I didn't get to the final. They had the probably probably one of the most iconic moments ever of University Challenge. In my year, the trophy was

awarded by Stephen Hawking. Way they did it, In fact, they did it three months later in Cambridge in his like academics lounges. It were Stephen Hawking and Twitter melted down. It was it was the most iconic series of a Universe Challenge, just like crying. And then I was like and then Stephen Fry Stephen Hawking and you know he passed me a couple of years later, so it's like Stephen Hawking actually giving a trophy and I was like, that could have been me, Like, and Eric suns skype him.

I see the back of his room. Um, And he didn't win it, but he still got like award, like a runners up equivalent, got a picture with Stephen Hawking with the Universe Challenge, and I'm like, no, that should have been me. I'm looking at that blank all behind you and I love Eric, but I really should have been in that final Oh man, that's terrible. Um. So you know, they don't show much of the fall out. I think it was interesting. It was a tight movie at about I D minutes. Um, yeah, it could have

been longer, I feel like and not. I think it would have been okay to have a little bit more, but it was. It was a lean movie, Like they didn't show any of the fallout from this little scandal. They didn't show him arguing his case or them even accusing him. It. Really they kind of just I don't know if they shot that stuff and cut it out, but they really just go from him being found out

to him leaving in that truck. And it was a really smart move, I think, as far as a filmmaking move goes, because you're left to sort of piece it together, although as a as an audience member, you want to sort of have him fight for himself and say I knew the answer anyway, and I just saw it and it's your fault. You shouldn't let it out. But it leaves the audience to sort of do that themselves, which

has a lot of impact. I think, yeah, I think it means that well, when you finish watching it, either on your streaming or in the cinema or wherever it is, you can have that discussion with the person you've been watching, like, oh, you know, how are you going to happen? Jack, and that you went to confessed you I can they they sort of resolved, and do they find out who messed up with the studio? You have the discussion at home. So actually it is a very smart move by the

by the production and the direction of that. Think so yeah, uh, And then you know you've got the two things sort of lingering out there that you have to tie up those loose ends with Spencer and whoever he's going to go back, and you know professors love to and uh, you know, you know where it's going. But that's why we love movies. Because of these moments where everything's okay

with Spencer. You want him to be okay. You want him to meet Brian up here rather than him dragging Brian down, and you get the without it being too sugarcoated, you get the sense that there's some hope there that that might happen. Yeah, and I think again that maybe with a commentary on the eighties how in the UK there's a lot of unemployment there, people like Spencer, people that left school of sixteen without any qualifications. Things tough.

But then it shows in because like Spence, he's sort of turned around. He's trying to get back in the path it was he did. You have a magistrate session where he's been released and he's been I think he got probation only and it's not like, you know, it would have been too much if he was like and now I've signed up for uh for college and I'm gonna do this. It just sort of gives you a hint that he's gonna like branch off from his path

of of badness. Yeah, he is. It not not nice tile off and you can see, yuh, I liked his character he had. It is sort of he brought the South m the Essex Guy to Bristol University where you know we saw the Bendict com about uh and then you know at the end he eats. It's it's that movie thing where he's running after his love and there's a little bit of misdirection there when he sees Alice in the hall and um, you know, like you said, she's not a villain, so you don't want her to

get to faced, but he does. You know, there is a nice little moment where she's sort of put in her place a little bit and that's all you need. And again sometimes like the little guy can who you know, people who have been slighted in love can watch and go to Alice. You know he doesn't want, you know, but you know the person we want to speak to. And yeah, it's it is like because this film is also a rom com, and in rom com the guy's got to get the girl or the girl's got to

get the guy. In fact, I've watched an interview with James McAvoy and he said one of the reasons he accepted this role was he always wanted to do a rom com. Oh really, yeah, and he got it. He got his rom com. Yeah, this little small movie. It's a little bit of magic. I think I wish it was better known. Hopefully this will put it on some more people's radar. I think it was released in the US under a different title because no one here knew

that starter for Chen was a reference to the University Challenge. Yeah, and it did really pulling the box of less than a couple of million dollars and even the UK to become like one of those sleeper cult hits over the years. It builds up the audience and builds it up. But yes, I think it's because perhaps the cast, while they're Stella now, weren't so Stella first came out. Yeah, and it's kind of fun to go back and see little baby James McAboy and all these kind of young actors, little puggy

James Corton. James Corner needs to tweet about this is involved because he's kint quiet. He's just like, let it be like I didn't James. He needs to James Gordon if you thinks he's a west Ham fan, and Russell Brands as well, So James Corner, Russell Brand. We're gonna get James Gordon to tweet about this film. Okay, because he could get a whole new audience for University Challenge. Totally, totally. All right, man, well this is a lot of fun, great movie. I'm glad you. I'm glad you told me

about it and have me watch it. It was a lot of fun and uh, I look forward to talking again. Cheers. Jack is always a pleasure. I'm that serendiperous. Moment. I got a message saying, do you want to interview those stuff you should Know podcast guys? I said yes immediately. I'm so so thank you for pleasure. All Right, thanks Bud. All Right, everyone, I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. And I always say that, but these conversations are a lot of fun, especially now when we're

locked down in the pandemic. To be able to spend some time with with my buddy Bobby over there in the UK. He's a good guy. We're gonna meet in person one day. I'm gonna take him up on that soccer game. We're gonna hit the pub and have a point and talk about math. He's gonna teach me some stuff. Uh. He's a good dude, and I'm glad you you checked out this episode and like I said, hopefully you watch Starter for ten. If not, you can watch it on

HBO Max. Very very good, lean ninety minute independent film coming of age rom com Love Story. Had a lot of fun talking about it, and Bobby is just a good guy, so big thanks to him. Check out Bobby's book, The Life Changing Magic of Numbers, and you can also follow him on Twitter at Bobby Underscore Seagull And that is as it sounds, s E A g U double L. Not Steven Seagal, but Bobby Seagull, Everyone, the real deal. The big thanks to Bobby, and thanks to you for listening,

and we'll see you next week. Movie Crash is produced and written by Charles Bryant and Meel Brown, edited and engineered by Seth Nicholas Johnson, and scored by Noel Brown here in our home studio at Pontsty Market, Atlanta, Georgia. For I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.