Andy Siara on Force Majeure

Andy is an old friend of mine. I told the story a bunch, but if you have not heard, uh, Andy and his older brother Joey, we're in the band Henry Clay People, and they became friends of mine through the Stuff You Should Know podcast and eventually recorded the theme song to our TV show, as well as having me on stage to play with them, and me going to see them a bunch of times. And they're just good dudes. And Andy is now a movie writer, everybody.

He wrote that great new movie that's out right now on Hulu and at a drive in here you called Palm Springs starring Andy Sandberg. And it's really great. And I'm super excited and proud and kind of blown away that Andy has dipped his toe in the pond as a screenwriter, and uh has had such success so quickly. It's really really great. It doesn't always go that way. And Andy knows that he's very humble, sweet guy, and I'm sure you will love him as much as I do.

So here we go with Andy Sarra on the Great Great movie from two for masure. How you doing? How you guys hanging in there? You know, it's sir, weird time. UM, I feel you know, lucky that to kind of break up the monotony. You know, we we had to move during this whole uh pandemic and quarantine. UM oh yeah, I was gonna ask if that was the same now. Yeah,

we moved to Eagle Rock, um from Culver. We kind of backed ourselves into a corner because the new baby is coming in five weeks now, and I forgot Amanda's doctor and our hospital is on this side of town. So we just we always knew we had to I mean for the past whatever eight months, seven months, we knew that we had to move by um summer for this baby, and we did not know that the world would be shutting down. So it definitely made it made

it a little more difficult. Um where over an Eagle you don't have to name your address, but where an Eagle Rock generally am we are in the the armpit of the of the two and the one thirty four up behind that that target. Um there. I never actually been up on that hill there. Um, I didn't really know. I knew it existed because I drove by it so many times. Um. But it's a it's a great quiet

neighborhood up here. Um. And yeah, it's like this this old I think fifties subdivision that has just now been like you know, it's gone through the whole renovation process over the you know, twenty years, and it's just I don't know, but very kind neighbors, just walkable, you know, but but still hilly. And I don't know, I'm into it. I dig it. I love it, man, I'm glad I know exactly where you're talking about. Uh, look what I'm wearing today in honor of you guys, my Henry Clay

people T shirts. Everyone knows the story. So I'm not going to bore the listeners for the million time with how we met. But I did want to talk a little bit about you're growing up life and what it was like. Always I'm interested in sort of the culture of the household and how movies and and TV and stuff comes your way as a kid. Um, Well, where to begin. I mean, I think I'm pretty sure that my dad took me to see Batman, and that was the very first movie I saw in the theater and

which original? Um, okay, and I that's what I've been told. I don't know if that's just you know, that's the story that's been told throughout the years. But I mean to me, uh, when we we moved from Whittier in May, end of May of ninety three, um to your Belinda, Orange County birthplace of Richard Nixon something something they are still proud about for some reason. Uh. Yeah, birthplace of southern California concerned. It's it's it's it's weird that I like,

I like, I had to seek at a library. Uh and um, but we moved there in yeah, the end of May. I was that was the end of my second grade year. And but we we moved during this, you know, right at the top of summer. So and I was a shy kid, and Joey and I were not close buds yet. Um, Joey my older brother, I know, I know you know that, but too you know, yeah, we we weren't close yet, and I was I didn't have the courage to go knock on neighbors doors to like,

you know, come hang out and play. Um. And since I wasn't in we weren't the third grade headn't started yet. Um, I didn't have like the forced friendships that come with school. So I was just I was a lonely but fine but still lonely depressed. But again it's not that depressed because time it was, you know, I fine middle class kid. Um. And then on June my dad took him in to see Jurassic bar and then, uh, it all changed, changed

everything I saw nine times that summer. Um. Yeah, I knew that was a big, big thing, and I saw that it was it was taken already, So therefore I can't we can't talk about that today. Uh I've I've talked about that one to death. But yeah, my mom and then my mom's best friend gave me her that summer, or maybe that Christmas gave me her like old VHS shoulder amount camera, and I started making a bunch of

short films like I'm really bad bad short films. Um. Like, but I would convince my my teachers throughout the end of elementary school into high school to like, let me um instead of writing book reports, Uh, let me do like a let let me do the Western Game. But a five minute short of the Western Game, or Romeo and Juliet or in high school we did The Crucible but then make but just making little short films about it.

Um so but asked for like the way movies came into my life, it was know my I remember I remember very clearly from like Jurassic Park until you know ninety seven night that was very much of my dad's son in h we you know River Wilde. Uh remember seeing this the double feature of Twister and Mission Impossible at our theater multiple times in intim That's why, that's why, that's why I suggested, you know, maybe talking about Twister.

Uh went on the really really loved disaster movies for a while, um because I was just kind of that perfect age. Uh. Dante's Peak was another huge one for me, deep impact. Um. And then there was the Magical Year of nine, um, which I just yeah, I just read this this book that Joey got me for like and I read it back in December. It was about how nine was the best year for film, um and you know perhaps history. Uh what's it? What's it's I should is it called? I think so it was something like that.

I lent it to a friend, Otherwise I would just grab it right now. Um, I find it now. That sounds cool. We cover a lot of ninety great and and it goes just from um. And it was cool because I was reading it right up right before we went to Sundance for our movie. And the whole first chapter is about like Blair Witch Project, and and it goes month by month um and covers the year the movie that came out the year, so that was like

it also had this whole story about Sundance. So it was kind of a nice primer for me going to Sundance for my first time. But yeah, that that year, I was also that perfect age of very impressionable age of I think twelve or eleven and twelve that year or twelve, twelve and thirteen, um and yeah. So therefore I become obsessed with Spike Jones and Condrey and Kaufman and Pete Anderson and Alexander Payne and David Russell and

uh yeah. And so then from and and Joey had kind of like shown me, you know, he had his his VHS box set of Kubrick Um that I think came out the year before, maybe like right before I was White Shut, And so I kind of started like dabbling that but didn't. I didn't as a as a twelve year I didn't quite understand Clappercorn. Uh. It was um. But from that point on through you know, the next several years up to college, that's those kind of became

the movies that I obsessed over. And now it's I'm just you know, my goal is to combine my love of big budget disaster films or monster films or alien films like Independence Day. That was another big one that my dad still talks about, like, uh, like how we went and saw that I think four or five times in a theater together. Um and uh. And it's funny because he actually he brought it up to me the

other day. It's like, remember when we went and saw July four And I'm like but and then he's like, you know, the the alien one and and then that's how he remembers it for some reason. Uh and yeah. And so now I just I just want to you know, combine my the the prestige films of you know, the you know, nine on that I kind of filled up with two like with that this on on, this this adventury part that I grew up with and I didn't really grew up with many like too much in the

sci fi world. Uh my, I think on the spectrum of adventure films versus like sci fi films to get with the Indiana Jones on one side and uh and Star Wars on the other side, that we were we were far more of an Indiana Jones family. And then I've now come to like love the Star Wars world. Um. But you know, but I think because we as a scity, we were told every day that this is this is what we're supposed to love, and yeah, you have to.

But then then I've kind of just I have grown to love it though I've just I've just given in to the pressures of marketing. When did you start playing guitar? Um? It was it was sixth grade. For Christmas, my brother gave me his his first guitar, and so that was

my first gude. It was at the squad Fender Squire um and see I got that and it was it was covered in stickers of you know, O C punk bands and SKA bands and then I played remember that it was the sixth grades and I played the talent show that year and me and um, a couple of buddies covered Damn It by Blankney two, and that was it was the that was the beginning of the music phase, which is now done. Wait, actually I don't. I don't even know if I own guitar anymore, because I because

I don't say that. I'm so mad at you right now. We part. Part of that is because Joey and I would because for all of my twenties and when we were in the band and we're living together. You don't make any money as a band, so like we would just sell each other's equipment back and forth to each other to like help pay rent. And I think the last exchange was, like I needed money, so I sold uh the guitar that I was playing to Joey. And now, yeah, I have to be honest, I don't. I'm not sure

I ever even owned the s g outright. I think I think it may have always been Joey's. But then

I kind of like really co opted it. And then but he's been using it, so he came and picked it up, and then he picked up my amp to go record, and so now I have a I have this acoustic guitar like that I would I would use for like the songs for kids stuff, um, and that's that's on the wall in the living room that I'll take down every uh every a few weeks to play down by the Bay or old McDonald for But otherwise like, yep, well,

I mean, I'm just giving you a hard time. Of course, you've moved into a the professional phase of your career and there's nothing there's no shame in like leaving behind traveling around in a stinky van and not making any money. And you had that experience, which is super cool, and that's how I met you, guys. Uh, but don't ever stop playing, is all I gotta say. I think you'll get back into it one day, like you'll have an old man band when you're my age. That's maybe, I

don't know. It's I've noticed with um with Joey and then Noah. I don't know if he ever met Noah. He was our He was the original bass player in our band. He and I. He and I met in a creative writing class at u C. I bonded over pavement and then it just happened to be like the day I met him was a day our bass player quit and I was like walking with Noah. I was like, hey, do you play bass. He's like, no, I play guitar, but close enough, like gold you want to be you

want to be in a band. And then he he joined Henry Clay People and was um with us for up until like the touring years started. Anyway, the reason to bring him up is that he and Joey both have that that's I don't want to call it a like a disease, but it's um where if they walk into a room and there's ever a guitar that's like just sitting there, they have to pick it up. They have to play. They're the guys that will always bring the guitar to like camping trips or because they always

have to have it. Um. And and I remember, and I remember and like high school, Uh, I was just you know, I was just watched watching a movie in my room with my high school girlfriend. And then uh, you know it's like private time. Um. And then Joey just really just walks in just like strumming the guitar, like not not thinking. It's like it's it's another part of his brain that just like it's it's just I don't know, he zones out, uh, and I and he

he and Noah always had that. I never had that, UM, And I think that's why once we called it a day on the band, like, it was kind of easy for for me to not look back too much. I do. I do love playing live. We had our we did this other kind of side band, um Fakers for two years. But I saw one of those shows, and what I loved about that was just I mean, I love playing live.

I think it's just fun to perform, but I hate recording, I hate practicing, so all those things that you actually need to be good at for being a successful band. I I just what was the highlight, uh, before we move on to screenwriting stuff, what was what was like the highlight for you band wise? Either coolest moment or biggest gig or if those are one and the same, covering t Rex the Tabernacle with you, it's pretty incredible.

Come on you guys, Yeah, that that was cool just because I had, you know, been to coach Alla every year right from from two thousand four when UH was in high school. And I remember that's when Pixis played right before Radiohead, and that just just incredible. UM and get que and not you remember that was the first

band we saw that day. And I was a big que and not youthan and um, and so going to coach Alla I think every year from that point um, and then getting to play in Yeah, it was just like, oh, I don't I don't need this. I had a feeling in the moment actually, or like just leading after the show, like yeah, this is probably the best it's going to get for the bands. And we remember after we you know, for an hour before our set and we're just kind of just you know, hanging out until we go and play.

I just said, you know, I'll see you guys in a little bit to my to the band and to my family and just I just kind of walk the grounds on my own and just to kind of, you know, soak it in because there was Yeah, I always I always knew there as a shelf life. Just didn't know when my shelf life was gonna um you know. Of course, So did Joey come walking up with his guitar and

interrupt your moment? Part of me thinks that I maybe did hear him like go back onto the stage like check check his guitar sound, and I'm just trying to like be at peace, and then I hear him like I could see that. There's many images that are burned in my brain of like being on stage or recording of Joey, you know, his head down to the amp um to try to find that perfect sound. And that's the other thing of like he and I know you guys have talked a lot about you know, passing back

and forth pedal pedal knowledge. Yeah, and yeah, that he has had I don't know, hundreds of of pedals and guitars and amps over the years. Um and he's always in search of that perfect sound. But you will never find that perfect sound soon. That's the well, the uh the For non musicians, it's called gas. It's called either guitar or gear acquisition syndrome. And it's real. Yeah, I can tell you. Yeah. So I want to talk about screenwriting for a little bits because rarely do I get

a bona fide big shot Hollywood screenwriter in here. That tiny shot definitely not big shot. And I thought we should could talk about a f I for a little bit because you went through the a FI program and I think it would be instructive for people who consider film school or programs like a FI. So what was that like and and was it worth it? And just sort of walk us through a little bit what a f I was all about. Um, I mean, it's it's funny. I think it's important for listeners to know that you

wrote one of my letters of recommendation for IF. I I bet it did have a huge, a huge part of it all um af I was it was great. I it's it's it's hard. I have a it's very expensive to go there, and I did not. I mean, I my parents were are lovely, but we didn't have like, they're not made of money, so I I They're big thing was to help me with undergrad. But then once I have that, I'm good to go. Uh. And so I didn't. They didn't want me to enter the world

buried in debt. And then I spent the next six years, five years after undergrad in the band, not buried in debt, but definitely like living in debt. Uh, Hans Joey writing a song called living in debt. Uh, It's because like but that was always you know, just credit card bills here and there, but we didn't have any school debt. And then all of a sudden, the band's done, and I don't, I don't, like, there's nothing else I know

that I want to do with my life. I didn't know how to do anything else, not that I could. I even knew if I knew how to do that either. But I was like, Okay, well, if I have to go two hund dollars in the debt, I mean, at that point, it's just monopoly money. It doesn't make that that's not real. Uh. And so I did that, and I'm still in debt for that UM and that's terrible that that's the that's the terrifying thing about it is

that like it's it's so much money. And that's that's my problem with you know, the top film schools is that like I was only able to make that kind of UM. But it can be looked at as a foolish decision, uh to go to school to go into that much debt when you can you know, you can download script notes. Uh. And that's like that is a it's a public service they're doing, UM and you can

learn so much from that. UM. But I can only make that decision to go to film school and go into that much debt because I knew still in the back of my head, I had a safety net of like my wife was successful and working. Um, but you would we're just we're just boyfriend girl friend of the time. But still, like, you know, I knew that I had that my parents are of good health and if worst case scenario, I can always just like I knew, I could fall back and live with them at some point

if if if I needed to. UM, And I don't know that's that's because of that. It's a shame because it weeds out so many more unique points of view than than my own. To be honest, that's that's your village, you know, and we're lucky to have villages around. Yeah, And I hope that especially now, I hope that you know, I know that s C has kind of made some changes.

I think if like you come, if come from a household that has that makes less than I think it's eighty thousand a year it's tuition free, or if I think that's what it is, I'm it could be wrong. But I know they're trying to change, and I'm hoping that a f I does too, because I do think

that the education I got an a f I was incredible. Um. And it's the best part about it is this like immersive experience where it's two years where you the reason you go with so much that is also you're getting you have to cover your living expenses because you should not be going to do other jobs. So you can actually really immerse yourself for two years in the program and focus on nothing else, nothing else but just making things.

And I thought so, well, one of the coolest things to me about going to going back to school was I look back on my uh high school years and before. Um, I have one really close friend from those years. You know Ryan, You've met Ryan before. Yeah, he's like, you know, my best buddies since third grade. Um. Otherwise I'm not that close too many many people from high school. I'm

still you know, Facebook friends or Instagram buddies whatnot. But like, I'm not that close to as many people from high school. And same thing for college. My one friend from college is Noah, who became you know, one of my other best buddies. Um. But and I think part of that is that, like I I had Entertainment Weekly. My favorite favorite day of the week was was Friday's when I'd come home and go through Entertainment Weekly or the the Summer movie preview or Winter movie preview, and then I

would every Sunday, read the calendar section. UM and uh E E had their coming attractions. UM, like we're you know before that you can just go on YouTube and watch any trailer like that, and those were that's had. I loved all that so much, and no one else

I grew up with gave a ship about it all. Um. And the same thing for in college, like I wanted I think I wanted that I wanted to be around people that that loved movies and then eventually TV shows as much as I did, but they weren't I couldn't find those people back in high school or in college. And then all of a sudden, I go to grad school and then the first day a f I'm like surrounded by a hundred fifty people who people all all want that we're all trying. All we want to do

is just play in the sandbox. And that's what That's the best thing about a a grad school and especially a f I is that you're making things you're uh. I ended up writing six shorts to two bigger thesis films and four these like cycle films are called, which are just like um, these you know, twenty twenty minute shorts and just to be able to like truly experiment, um, and like that's such a helpful part in like finding

a voice. And that's where you know, just just listening the podcasts or or going to school so that don't have any production side. Um, you know, that's that's where you you miss out because so much of I don't know, the finding your voice of just is through the actual

making of a product in a way. And and I also you know, I can draw a direct line from Palm Springs to A five because on the very first day or second day of a FI, I met Max Barbaco, the director, and we we bonded over um, I think he's found it down, had just wrapped up, and I was just we're both like we're both blown away. Like how they those those guys are able to go from these moments of like slapstick comedy to a real like emotional gut punched within the manner of like a moment

or a scene. Um, and like where we're in tears, like genuine tears. And so yeah, we remember responding over that and Pavement and the replacement. Uh and and I was like, and both of us are little brothers, so I think there was like this kind of you know, growing up in the shadow of we had a shared out, we had we had a shared outlook on life because

of that too, UM. And so we made our first short film together there and then made one of our our thesis film together and we just became like, you know, true kind of collaborators in the in the best of the best of sense is um? Is that the kind of deal? Now? Are you guys? Um? I mean, are you looking to work together again, like project after project? Are you just kind of taking it as it comes? We? Uh, not every single project, but we have a we're we

have some TV things we're dabbling in. We have a movie that we're gonna be doing together, another movie. We we know that this is a very like a you know, it's a it's a unique when you find someone so that you, I don't know, connect with creatively like that. That also brings something different to the table. Um. It's it's a it's a special thing and you want to hold onto that. And I think that's what you know totally.

We definitely found um. And that that's again too on to the positive of going to a school like a f I is that Yeah, I found that there and and we were able to practice and and and also learn how Like there's many classes that are like talk about like learning how to really find your story, but like access these deeper emotions like shame and fear and whatnot, and and the whole Palm Springs like kind of when we were just kind of trying to come up with the idea and whatnot for it, so much of that

was just us two in a room kind of acting as each other's therapists in a way, like like nothing what We didn't hold anything back. And I think that's and we were able to And it sounds super pretentious, but like we were able to access that part of our are subconscious. I don't know, Uh, yeah, that's not pretentious. I mean that's that's the deal, you know. I mean, that's where the great art comes from. That's not superficial. And that's one of the things I loved about Palm Springs.

And Um, if I had not liked the movie, I would just said, hey, buddy, so proud of you, good job. I wouldn't have gotten specific with my with what I liked about it. But I really did like it, and I think it was um a really fresh spin on a concept that people have seen and love, which is sort of the repeating of the day, the groundhog Day thing.

But you you took, you got an angle that we hadn't seen before, and it was it managed to be sweet and romantic and funny but also had a little bit of philosophical underpinnings and there was this sort of heavy sub subtext and I think you wove it in just the right amount, you know, And it was it was more than just this sort of silly fun movie. But it was also that which I think is for a first movie, is like like, congratulations, man, was so proud of you, so proud of you, thank you, thank you.

Uh and you know that part of that is yours too, because again, you wrote that first letter, that first letter of wreck, so uh, you know you own a piece of palm springs? Uh? Did your Are your parents freaking out or they just like over the moon about all this? Yeah? Yeah, they I feel like I feel like it's made them part of me thinks that they've been contacted uh more by friends, like by more friends than I. Uh. I think it's made them pretty feel pretty cool. And it

was it was funny. After the Wall Street Journal reviewed it and that's that's where like all of their friends, um are big Wall Street journal people, and that's where like it gave I don't know, it adds added some points uh to their their coolness, I think. And then uh, and I'll in that review they refer to me as Mr Siara um uh. And so I think that that was I think that definitely he makes my dad like, you know, the tears, the tears of fatherly pride. And

I'm pretty sure. And I got a text two nights ago for my dad saying we we couldn't agree on what to wash tonight, so so this and he was a picture of of palm springs on the screen. Yet again, I think I think I'm pretty sure they've seen it about eight or nine times now. That's adorable. Uh. It's it's been very well reviewed too. That's got to feel good. I was, I was a little nervous. Um anytime someone close to you make something like this big, it's always

a little nerve wracking. It's like, oh God, Andy's first movie. I'm so nervous. And then I I did a little peek at a couple of pre reviews, but I didn't want to really read read. But I just would scan a few of them and I was like, hey, I told him, he's like, this one's getting good reviews, and um, that made me feel a little bit better. And then I watched it and then read a lot of the reviews and it's it's like everyone seems to really like it. Said I I feel very lucky, Um, because it was

I don't know, yeah, I feel I feel lucky. Um. It's I always I keep going back to there was a moment when we premiered at Sundance that it's kind of like burned into my mind. Um, and you know where it was the first screening, Max and I were sitting in the back corner. Um, and like I knew where Joey and my parents. It's not at all I knew where Joey and my parents and and Amanda we're sitting. I knew where his his family was sitting, cast and crew,

you know. And it was there was there was some like buzz leading into the premiere, but no one had seen the movie. It just you know, and and buzz

usually is like buzz can off and go the other way. Uh. And I remember when like lights went down and the sun Dance little up preview thing came up, and I got a little chanel because like and grab Max, and you know, I could flash into my mind of us meeting seven years almost exactly seven years earlier, and to like, you know, we never once expected any of this, uh we you know we when we've so many of those years before it even got to lone the Island, it

was just like no one cared about us. Uh No, it was just us wanting to try to make there have had this dream of making some kind of dumb movie. Um and then to get to that point, it just it was just a lot of feelings and then uh and then when the Lonely Island classics um card came up, that little like everyone in the theater started laughing, and

it was like this this sigh of relief. But but like I kept on thinking about like that moment, like this was the last moment where the movie was like it was no longer ours after minutes, Uh, it's out into the world and people might hate it, and that that could be the end of our end of our journey as like, uh, young filmmakers. So I don't know,

let's well people love it, man. I was, um, I was a little sad at first because the pandemic happened and I knew that your movie was teed up and I was like, oh, ship man, I wonder if they're

going to delay it or whatever. And um, I wasn't sure about just the overall release plan before this, But it seems like it's kind of worked to your advantage because a lot of tension has come your way and there's not a lot out there, so it's sort of, uh, it's sort of stood alone as a new movie that you can watch, and it seems to have, like, in a weird way, kind of benefited from this whole thing. Yeah, And I don't I don't know how I feel about that.

It's uh, I'm not saying that it's the only thing out there. So people like it because it could be the only thing out there and it stinks, but uh,

it's weird. I think it's gotten a lot of attention because of the unique you guys release schedule, like you guys did Hulu and then this big drive in drive ins all around the country, which was so super smart and yeah, yeah that was like like we we luked out with a very forward thinking uh you know, distributors between Hulu and and beyond to have that kind of

like that partnership there. Um. But yeah, I'm obviously the state of never in a million years that I think that I'd have a the first movie would be a summer midsummer release and have pretty much no competition. Um, and the competition, you know was It's it's uh the Old Guard and Greyhound, which are all different types of movies, and and those were kind of the only like the next Hulu movie Isn't isn't out for I don't think it's out for a little while. And and so therefore,

I don't know, I think we're a normal year. We'd be up against Fast and Furious and and Tenant and um. Yeah, well, I mean it's a movie that makes you feel good too, and I think people really just the timing of it all I think came together perfectly. You know. It's a movie that is warm and and funny and romantic, and

I think people need stuff like that right now. Uh. I'm kind of curious about just the process of working with Andy and Lonely Island and whether or not you're on set and notes and revisions and just sort of walk us through a little bit of that. Um, they're

the best. They're the absolute best. Um I picked I pitched them once he wasn't there, but it was we I got hooked up with the manager after like the script was done and it's still it was just me and Max Um like me like Max Max attached as director and but we knew that it was going to be harder to find financing for a first time director when this, you know, on my side, on just the writing side, it was, you know, a script can speak

for itself. But um, but yeah, well my manager took the script out and within like a month or or so, I think a month or two, we gotta call it. Andy Sandberg wanted to meet Um and so we had that first meeting with Um, Andy and Akiva and Becky Becky sloven Or who was who was running their company at the time. And to me, it was like, I don't know, but it was. It was kind of funny that I got there like five minutes earlier. Then I just had to go to the bathroom, and then in

the bathroom I ran into Andy. But obviously I know who he is at the time, but he doesn't even know who I am. He doesn't know that I'm about I'm a guy he's about to meet with, and so I didn't introduce myself, but you know, he gave the the courteous like hey, because it's like it was a small bathroom. Um uh, it's a little awkward moment. Anyway, after that meeting, it was so clear to me that, oh,

they see the exact same movie. They see that the Yeah, they see the same movie that we wanted to do, but also know how to do it and know how to make it, you know, infinitely better. And and he gets this character better than I do. Um. And I remember going to the parking lot afterwards with Max. Um.

It was kind of a shorter meeting. It's like like a forty five minute meeting, and it ended with a lot of it was like Max kind of just describing, you know how he would, you know, want to do the movie too, just because it's like, you know, you have to just kind of sell himself a little bit. And I remember after in the parking lot talking to Max, like both of us were just I saying, I hope to God they want to do this because this would

be perfect. And the next day we get a call that they do and um, yeah, and it was And from that point on, I think we uh they there was some further development things we wanted to do for like a lot of the third act stuff. Um. But I remember like maybe a week later, like we went in on a Monday to their office and went page by page for notes and it just but it was just kind of like it it felt so so or like there are little two person team that saw this movie.

Now has had grown too. The room just got bigger, and but it was all people that were wanting the same thing. And I remember spending that that Monday with them doing you know, going through the notes, and then I turned around the script by Friday and the probably this is why Becky Slobaer is, you know, one of the best producers ever and now now she's running her her own division at MRC. But I remember turning and scripted on Friday, and then Saturday morning she texts me

and says, read it. Let it come back in on Monday, um for for more notes. And it was like it was never this like okay, here to script and then in two months we will get on the phone and talk. It was very clear to me that they all were like they wanted to make the movie and what what that did was it also just energized me to like turn scripts around faster. Uh. And so there was that was about like a three month roughly three months span

of that. That the middle of that was when my daughter was born, and so I just took a little break obviously. Um. But then after that we took it out for financing. Um uh got financing pretty quickly from this company, Limelight, and then we were like from the time we I think we I don't want to say we first really started working on the script and maybe April of with them April eighteen and we were shooting April. Wow, that's super fast. I mean for people listening, that's it's

not usually the way it goes. Uh. It sounds cool. It sounds like they really understand creative momentum and how important that is because things can go away, you know how it is, Things and go away just because it's and emails are stuck in someone's emails inbox for too long. That can kill I was waiting for this thing to just fall apart at every single moment. I'm sure that was nerve wracking his ship. Yeah, it was. It was terrifying. But I also like, I don't know I felt so

just to their grid. I felt so protected by by them, um, because you know, I think, you know, those guys have made some movies but also just been making making a ton over the past fifteen years, and and I don't know, I always felt like they created this nice, like protective cushion um from the scary industry world to just kind of always always protect the script and as hard as it as hard as it maybe got, like once you know, we were shooting and stuff like, it was still like

we all saw the same movie and that's what was guiding our way along. And I don't know, I felt ill that just I learned. I learned so much from them, like you like, I don't know how quickly their brains work, um, and how like you know, five five minutes with any one of them is more valuable than like ten hours with with a lesser person in a way like when

I when it comes back. Yeah, And it's sort of the true of any industry where the people that rise to the top like they're there for a reason, and when you if you're able and lucky enough to be around them for a minute, even if it's a professional baseball player or a CEO, or a Andy Sandberg like, there's there's special people and they're they're in that position for a reason because they're super talented and their their minds to think super fast. And it's impressive. I've been

around it before. Um, it's it's cool man. And now you've got uh currency in the business, which is the hardest thing that Thanks to them, this this movie, this movie would never even if it wasn't for um. You know, Becky and Andy and Kiev and you am I wanting to do it? So uh were you on? Yeah? Every day as how that I was. It was in the writer's room for this other show, for the show Angeline

them that's coming on Peacock once we can start shooting again. Um, but the writer's room is in Silver like and we'd end around four thirty and then I would hop in my car and drive an hour to two hours up to up to set whether it was in like Santa Clarita or Palm Dale wherever I said was in and finish around two or three. I am drive back to our house, sleep for a couple of hours and then

just do that every single day. But there was there was no world where I was going to miss um you know, the filming of my first movie, because all along the way and I'm still I will stand by this. Now. It's like that could be the only movie I ever have made, and so therefore I can't miss that. Uh and I'll how you got to look at it? I think, you know, uh, not take anything for granted. Um and boy, I think this is where we say, Amanda your wife,

I'm awesome and amazing because she was. She was clearly holding the fourth down during that time. It was it would not have been possible if it wasn't for Amanda. I think what we we knew that there was it was Luckily it was a short shoot. It was only twenty one or twenty two days shoot. Um. So like that month though it was the month was a blur. Um, but we all, you know, we knew it was just

a month. And then after that, I was like I made very clear rules for myself, like when the right of room is done at four thirty, I'm coming home. And now it's like I'm gonna be home. H yeah. Yeah, she she was pulling double duty, triple duty that month. That's amazing. So cool. Uh, what's well? Can you talk about what's next or should I just text you and

get that story privately? M. Yeah, I have. There's a lot of things that are in varying degrees of real uh, and nothing is like I mean because some stuff is not like deals aren't like totally locked in yet or whatever like there and it sounds so stupid. Let's just let's let's text about all right. I I My main thing is I have a show that I'm we haven't taken out yet to networks. Just who knows, you know,

the industry is everything is um. But there there's a show that I I wrote on Speck and then I'm doing with Sam s Mails Company. They're the one, you know, the guy who did like Mr. Robot and Homecoming and UM it's it's uh, it's called their Resort And hopefully a network wants to do that once once we take it out. But we haven't taken that out. But the part of the reason I pick Force Masure for today was it was that was like a huge influence on

on this, on that script in that show. For me, Um, this kind of yellin exploration of relationships and the people in them. You know, yeah, that's a good segue. Um, you picked Force Masure after some back and forth, and this was I'm really glad you did, because this is a movie that I had not seen and was not on my radar other than knowing that it was recently remade into an American version with Will Ferrell and Julie Louis Dreyfuss is Downhill. And I think I remember just

seeing briefly like Downhill not very good. Uh, the original much better. But boy, oh boy, did I love this movie. Dude, I loved loved this movie. Uh. And it's it's still in my brain and I watched it last night and it's. Um, there's a lot going on in this movie, very subtly sort of going on in this movie from a very simple premise, which is if you haven't, um, if you

haven't heard of it, and you know of Downhill. It is the movie of of a family on vacation in the French Alps on a ski trip, and very early in the film there is uh an avalanche controlled avalanche, which they do at these places to keep avalanches from happening, and uh this the family thinks that the snow and in the avalanche is coming their way as they're dining al Fresco out on this beautiful um scene, like a whole movie is so gorgeous, and the dad the mom

huddles with the kids to protect them, and the dad bolts and it's all very fast, and then the whole rest of the movie is just sort of the repercussions from that incident. And that's just sort of a very surface level way to say it. It is a much much deeper film. Yeah, it's uh, I haven't I haven't seen Downhill yet, but I I don't want. I love everyone involved in that movie, and I'm a huge, huge fan of every from directors to writers to the stars.

And actually heard from you know, some other close friends, um that you know that having watched it since Sun Dance like that actually is it's pretty good. Um, I just haven't visited yet, just because I watched Forest Masure, um twice a year at least, uh, and since I came out, I just have I don't know. It's just this deep, unfiltered examination of like of gender roles and masculinity and was one of the most uncomfortable yet funny

movies I I think I've ever seen. And also but I guess, let's say I don't know everything from writing to directing, the acting, the cinematography, the score, like top to bottom. It's um. Yeah, And there are so many images and scenes that are that are burned into my brain,

even just when I washed it again this week. I I just I was just writing down, like you know, the list of scenes that I just you know, stood out to me or like your standouts me in the moment, and I realized all I was doing was just writing down every single scene I know, right, yeah, it's um.

I mean the first thing that jumped out on me at me it was just how how much um, how much currency the writer and director who's Reuben Oastland it's a Swedish film, how much he gets out of just the composition of some of his shots in these, and how he made the ski resort into like this weird mechanized sort of Uh. I ke a like utopia. Um,

it's like part Stanley Kubrick and part Michael Hankey. Uh. It's it's just really remarkable how a shot of like just them on a little conveyor belt is funny, funny and also weirdly sort of disturbing at the same time, so unsettling. Uh. And then like you know, the the cannon fires of like the two have these controlled avalanches that like, you know, it's constantly going on. And he talked about it being it's like the war zone of marriage. Um uh, and that just yeah, it's it's like a

it's a weird war movie to a point as well. Uh, it really is, um And he he uses sound a lot to his advantage, whether it's those cannon fires or or the family when they're brushing their teeth with the tooth the electric tooth mechanical toothbrushes that sound like you know, buzz saws in their mouths. Uh. There's there's nothing accidental in this movie. I feel like every single thing has such purpose. Yeah, whether it's a prop or a camera

angle or or anything, it's so purposeful and intentions. Yeah, there's a remember I saw this before I saw scenes from a marriage. Have you seen scenes from a marriage? Bergman's um oh yeah. And I didn't realize like the opening, I don't know if this was intentional or if this was just like a happy accident, but you know both. That's kind of similar filmmakers to a point. I guess. Uh, that's the first scene for this, it's it's the family

being having their their photo taken. This kind of like you know the picture perfect family that we that he deconstructs and the same that's the same thing in scenes from a marriage. It's the family having their photo taken. And uh and how just like one single shot of of a and hearing an off and off screen photographer give instructions on like on you know, basically make it look like you like each other. Um, it's just so uncomfortable. And they did the same thing and transparent. I think

it was maybe top of season two or season three. Um, but opening with like this or having just one long like photo taking scene, um, which that's doing the same thing for that with that show that I mentioned. It's just that, like you can tell so much, there's there's so much subtext and when he let the camera just sit there and and if you have performers that understand these things like like what what they're going for on like a deep level, Um, I don't know, it's it.

It communicates so much more than some fancy editing or writing can communicate. Yeah, he really um he really lets that cameras sit there a lot and there are a lot of really long unbroken takes. Um that you don't even realize until you're three minutes into it. You're like, wait a minute, I don't I don't even think there's in a cut or an edit. And then you rewind and go back and you're like, Yeah, that camera's just

sitting there. And the composition sometimes is he'll cut people off at the neck, uh, and what is in the frame is sort of interesting. But someone will walk in and uh and they'll just be They'll be framed from like the neck down as a major part of the scene, and Uh, it's just I don't know, it's a very ballsy filmmaking anything. Now. I don't know if you've seen The Square his follow up, and then, Uh, I'm dying too.

I saw the trailer after this week, and I think that he I'm the most excited about him as a filmmaker that I think I've been about anybody. I think since I saw Boomy Nights, um, which is it's his nuts and I his his next movie just also just sounds incredible to um that, yeah, the same him. And then the guy that did the lobster and killing him a sacred deer what's his name? Your ghost? Uh? Yeah, they for some reason, they sort of remind me of each other. The films aren't the same, but just really

really unique points of view. I think from both of those guys. It's interesting because like and when I when I saw this and it hit me, it was it was back at film school and it was um at back at A five came out. I think it and uh are we at this? A world cinema professor teacher um he had recommended it, so I watched it and

end up writing a paper on it back then. But it immediately hit me and sunk his teeth, and I think and it was right around the same time that UM that movie We are the best, uh the about the Swedish um punk rock teens. Uh, these these teenage teenagers that started punk band. Um, it's also incredible. Uh. And then I started getting the more like more in a Bergman. And then I've realized like one of my the big bands from my childhood that I loved was

refused and and then they became international noise conspiracy. Uh. And I think as part of also Swedish, I started thinking like, do I have some some sweet Swedish blood in me? Because like I I get these on a I get the point of view on a on a deeper level than I do for most most you know, artist, creators, filmmakers. Um, yeah, and yeah, it's it's it's, it's it holds this movie holds up a weird but very honest mirror, um to

you know yourself, then to society. I think, so, I mean, it's um, there's a lot like you mentioned earlier, and I had the same exact note, like, there's so much about gender roles and your role in the marriage and masculinity, and a lot of this movie is about the just sort of the fracturing of the male ego, especially with the main character. And it's, uh, it's all just so subtle. Like I think, I don't want to see the American version because I know it's not going to be subtle.

I can tell from watching the trailer it's not subtle.

But there are so many uh, like the scene, for instance, masterful scene is when that camera's locked down, and this is after this guy's feeling shit like shit about himself for you know, a not doing the right thing and be lying about it and saying like no, that's not what happened the whole time, still not owning up to it and uh, go skiing with his buddy, the dude from Game of Thrones and does some primal screen therapy up there, and then they go back and they're having

a beer at the ski lodge or whatever, and that woman comes up it's one of my favorite scenes in the movie and says, you know, my friend thinks you're the best most best looking guy at the bar, and uh he you can see him start to feel good about himself and sort of he sort of laughs. And then they sit in that for like a minute and she comes back and just eviscerates him, but not even purposely.

She's just like, I'm sorry, I was mistaken. She was talking about somebody and you just watched like there this this sense of the brain. I know the exactly it's it's exact time that it's exactly a three minute long shot too. It's three minutes and if this yeah, this long pushing. Um and I I had like a movie club with some friends. Um that every time every before we like watch a movie, we sometimes like show our

favorite scene from another movie. And I've that that's the scene that I showed them, because it still is like it's burned into my brain. Um. With that that that song, that m song really really uh well, and not only like that would have been enough in that scene, I think was just that happening. And then they come back and apologize and you just see he's just like feeling

bad again. But then they had that little cherry on top at the end when this other guy comes up and starts to sort of pick a fight with them, because I guess they think I read it as I guess he thinks that they're starting ship with these ladies, because he was kind of like, how you messing with us, you're working around with us, and it and just that extra little bit about guys that get in fights, and they didn't get in a fight, but it was all just so real and like you feel dirty, like you're

just eavesdropping like a voyeur or something on this on this guy's life. But I also like, it seems there's so many people like that, and I I think, what what is I think another just brilliant thing about the movie is that that the very next scene like that, that's when you know, you know, this this cracking of this male ego really starts to it. It's really pronounced.

In the next scene is when he's locked out and then he goes wandering and there's just that this like the running of the bulls in a way, just of these verse and then it cuts that scene of just like you, they're in a up or in a tent. I don't know, but all these shirtless men just screaming and chugging beers and like roaring like just gross Neanderthal men uh and vomiting uh. And he's kind of lost in there. It's it's just it's so disturbing and funny and and I love how he runs away at the

beginning when they're coming out. It's like it was another avalanche exactly. I don't know, it's it's it's and I mean, for if you know, for Palm Springs, Max had made this um it's kind of sizzle reel like to kind of almost almost like just to prove his his idea for the movie in a way and just taking a bunch of clips from other movies, um, sicking health. I don't know capture the feeling we want in Palm Springs.

But one one brief shot and that says a real is when Thomas the man guy is is crying like that that real, true, ugly guttural cry. Uh. When he's like, first he's like, it's the the he's not really crying,

and she calls him out. Then I think it's true that yeah, but then I think that like it really just he just, I don't know, crumbles uh after that, and I don't know, it's it's that whole I don't think the pretty much that whole run from when the scene that you just talked about where you know they're they're fragile, male Ego is attacked to him on the ground in back in their hotel room, crying and his wife doesn't even know what to do with them anymore.

And then the kids come up seeing that, seeing their dad, and like I go, I go from laughing to feelings feeling so uncomfortable too. I was like in watching it again last night, I was I was crying, and I think, you know, having a I'd imagine, you know Ramona like sometimes I'll Romona, but she doesn't like that at all. Uh, And having you know, just to see your father like that,

like this, this crumbling, blubbering mess. It's it was seen as brutal, so heartbreaking, and then the daughter yelling at the mom like come on, oh god, that scene is so brutal because the mom knows and we should just say Lisa Lovan Congsley, who plays the wife, is just fucking amazing in this movie. Um, But in that moment, she she has built up this whole movie as the most important thing to her is her kids and she

doesn't have to be the perfect mom. She's not saying she's a perfect mom, but that is her priority and that's the thing that she cares about the most. That's why she protects them during the would be avalanche. She's incensed. They're her friend who is out sort of having flings and leaving her kids at home and like doing for herself. She just can't, like I think she's sort of jealous,

but she can't even process that. But in that moment when he is crumbled and the kids are screaming for her, she she sort of hates him right then, but she knows that she has to go over there and comfort them for the sake of those kids. And it's just so real. I think, like, I think we've all been in moments like this, especially when you're married and when you have kids, uh, where you know that you have to do the right thing, but it's so hard to like you have to get over yourself so much as

a as a spouse and as a bearance. Yeah, and I think that that's it's done so beautifully in the scene that follows, when like they go up on that on that ski run um and it's a you know, it's really snowy up there, and yeah, you could you just totally tell that, like she knows they have to put on this like performance in a way so that the kids can feel protected by their father again to like I don't know, reinforce those those gender roles, like

the father being the protector and so you know mother, Uh, the mom she pretends that she's you know, either hurt or lost. Dad has to go, so she is she pretending Is that what happened there? I'm I'm fairly sure because it's after this like triumphant heroic moment of the dad carrying her back to the kids and the kids are and then like the music is crescendo ng, and then the music stops and then she just gets up and walks back to go get her skis. So she did.

She didn't she didn't need to be carried obviously. Uh, it was just like two so the kids don't don't

think their dad is is you know, worthless? Uh, And I don't know it's having having I love my parents so much, and they've been incredibly supportive of my pursuit of, um, not doing what you're supposed to be doing, but not doing this the straight narrow job, UM, not doing the responsible job, just kind of going after these you know, be it in a rock and roll band or be chasing this you know, this dream to make movies or

TV shows or whatever. They've been incredibly supportive. But I remember very clearly when I was I. I was in wrestling in high school. I uh, I got the coaches Award. I was I lettered varsity like the end of my sect.

My sophomore year. It was. It wasn't on like normal varsity team, but I would have been on varsity and junior year, but I played some varsity tournaments and we had there was the wrestling banquet and one of the coach gave this big, long speech about like this this wrestler that has just like that's made him so proud and just like this good character. And then at the

and he's like, and that's that's Andy Sarra. And I got the Coaches Award, and my dad's crying his eyes out, um, but so proud of me and that I got the Coaches Award. And I'm like, you know, I'm very that's a manly, manly sport. And then the next day I tell him like, yeah, I'm gonna quit wrestling, so can go join Video Yearbook? Um, And I think I think I it crushed him and he I mean he even offered to buy me a new Um Gibson Les Paul

to keep if I would stay in wrestling. But that's the thing is I just like I have never been one too um you know, be into sports really or be naturally gifted at that. I've always I've always drifted more in the like let's get weird realm um. And I always I wanted to, you know. And the reason I wanted to join Video Yearbooks because they had these nicer cameras too that I can go, you can I can check out. Um. But why why I wasn't even

going down that path. But what I feel like I had I've had a point to make, I think, but I lost that point. Um. Something happened to do with like reinforcing that that hole of like you know, the masculine man. And I'm hoping that the you know, yeah, you know. Uh he recommended this book about like this memoir about like toxic masculinity and stuff. And I think that like, uh and I just I'll try to find it before we and um to tell you what it is.

But it's it's great because it's like it talks that this guy talks about how uh his dad who is like this always you know, very masculine man um at the end of his life he is he basically said, like, if you can change one thing, it's like he wouldn't he wouldn't want to care, he wouldn't care about that being that masculine man as much is it's just so so not important at all. It's so it's so stupid,

and I think it's it's the reason we have. It's one of the reasons we are in the situation, the shitty situation that we are in is because of this, like of all the stuff that that Ruben Oslin kind of explorers in this from like the roaring drunk shirtless men to like this did the the need to kind of like you know, when when you when you're even when you're attacked like that the the long three minute shot. When you feel like your ego is is attacked, you have to, like you you you stand up for it.

Or when I found it so incredibly fascinating when the multiple times when Thomas lies, when when Ebba she she shares the story and he's like, that's that's your version of events, that's not what happened, Like you're allowed to have two different versions of events. And then she's she's just like, well it's on it's on your phone though, so well let's watch you see you see it on his face. It's it's like it's a it's a shameful

man that is being caught. And I like, it's it's so so powerful yet but even it's it's the instinct of his of the of the Game of Thrones guy um Matt's uh to still defend him, to still like to still defend his his bro in a way. And I think and that's where like you see this this crazy snowball effect of just you know, just just people are flawed, and I think I acknowledge that, I think people we need to acknowledge that people are so so flawed and and try to like fight against these these

natural instincts. Uh. And I think that's what the of this movie just really highlights all of that to me. And so in so many moments, big, big and small. Uh. And I think, you know, it highlights that I think a lot of men are just you know, less evolved creatures. Yeah. Another part that I want to talk about, one of my favorite scenes was when h And another part that was so sort of instructive as to be able to make such a subtle scene works so well as you know,

people that write movies and stuff. It's such a lesson in that is when she goes off skiing by herself. She wants to have like a day on the slopes, and she's in the woods and she's peeing, and she kind of gets away from everyone. There's no one around.

She you know, takes off her little ski suit and she's sort of squatting down and peeing, and she sees sort of hears first and then sees her family kind of throw the trees out there and doesn't like, doesn't say anything, and they're right there, and it's just I thought that was such a powerful scene and so simple that she's just sort of in the woods behind them and she could go join them, and and so much of the movie is about her struggle with her as a parent, um and as a mother, and uh, I

just I just love that scene. So simple, but it's it's uh, it's funny because this time around, I actually wondered. It's not not to get crass, but was she taking a ship this? I always thought she was peeing before, but I think that this time when watching, I think I think she might have been, uh, might have been going number two? What do you think that? Because it was this, it was the way that she was breathing, and there was and I thought I heard maybe like

there's some slight sound effects in there. Um. And and because it's it's a longer like she's she's squatting there for a while. Um, I don't know. It's it doesn't it doesn't change the beauty of the scene at all. But I didn't notice it. This is the first time I thought that maybe she wasn't actually peeing. She was you know, it was something more. But it's yeah, I don't know that, Yeah, that was. There are so many

so pronounced moments like that. And then I'm looking at this old paper that I wrote at a if I that I pulled up about it. And there are so many also, just like short little glances here and there, um, I feel tell so much of a story. And like one of them is when Thomas is brushing his teeth while Ebba while Evan is like she's going pe behind him, um,

and she stands up. She doesn't have her shirt on, and when she stands up and turns around, it's it's really as if to not let him see her naked because he just got them trying to like have sex with her and she kind of that that got you know, pushed aside, and he's he's checking her out, and you see, like the dumb ape that he kind of is, and

like many men are, is that he can't help. Even though she turned around, he can't help but look at it, look at her ass you follow his site line, he just he's and she's clearly not happy with him in the moment, and there's no and there's no sense of emotional or sexual intimate intimacy whatsoever. Yet he still can't help but check her out. Uh. It's and like and that like that that that stuck out for me. And also in the final bus ride, um, like once once

they cut to the final bus ride. The first people we see when we cut into the bus are it's Matts and Fanny the Mats they and you know, he had already demonstrated his insecurities in this relationship. You know, he's significantly older than his twenty one year old girlfriend. Um, but the last time we saw them, like it seemed like they may have worked out that minor tiff. Uh. But because they're the first people we see when the film cuts inside the bus and we see Fanny is

laughing while texting someone. Um, and you just see he can't help the glance over as if as if he's jealous that someone else is making her laugh and and who is it? Is? A guy he doesn't know, and like why is she texting? And a guy? And you know, to make it worse, she catches him looking and then angles her phone away to intentionally hide it from them. And now you know, we leave with him now thinking

that she's hiding something from him. Uh. And that that that downward spiral of negative thoughts is all captured so well in that one single glance, um, And the movie is just is just filled with so so many of those those kind of moments that it's it's it's yeah, it's masterful in a way. Yeah. I mean, like I said at the beginning, like there's there are no accidents in this movie. I think everything is so intentional and

he's so uh as a writer and director. He is so comfortable with making the audience sit and being uncomfortable, and these awkward scenes that are just like, oh, just like you want to crawl out of your skin. Some of them are so painfully awkward. They have they have full, two full scenes with two different couples where she is she has her first try where she calls him out, tells the story of what happened, and he denies it.

And then they have a take to and she does the exact same thing in front of their like really good friends, and um, he denies it again and he doubles down. I was like, well, surely he's going to own up to it this time, and he fucking doubled down like a coward. And uh, Like you think they're okay. And that's why I think I love the movie so much.

Is you when you first see them, you think they're fine, and like it just shows how these how a tiny little crack can just become this fissure in a relationship if and it's clearly not solid. He admits to being unfaithful in his big breakdown outside the hotel room. Like, I feel like a third of this movie was shot right outside their room on that little hallway. It's so funny how many scenes are like set right there. Nice. It's uh, it's it's incredible that it's made me want to,

like true, like try to dig deeper in my own writing. Um. That just a couple of quotes that that I I pulled up that Rubin Austin had said, Um, kind of around the movie. He said two main goals. He had two main goals, uh for the movie. First one was to create the most spectacular avalanche scene in film history. And the second one was that we should increase the percentage of divorce in society. Uh. And you can use

the film as a relationship tests. And it's it's interesting when he when like hearing him talk about like what makes him want to do movies and stuff and so many movies, like a lot of his ideas. He talks about how like he's inspired by YouTube, like videos on YouTube that he finds like the whole end the whole last scene, it was like, there's a it's a bus, it's a it's a YouTube. It's from a YouTube clip

of a bus driving down a very similar winding road. God, that scene was so fucking tense, Like after this whole movie of tension, they're finally on this bus out of there. You're thinking, all right, this movie is winding down, and it's just like there's nothing more terrifying than a a big bus on a windy mountain road and then someone

driving that shouldn't be driving. And it's what is so nice is that, like it's so complicated and and ends it out on a very complicated thought because the whole time we've been watching this this deconstruction of like this of masculinity and this and this guy's like psyche in

a way. And then when faced with a different type of danger, the mom have abandons her kids, abandons everybody and gets off the bus and leave leaves everyone behind and uh, and then everyone kind of follows in this kind of like this this sheet mentality, and who is the one person that is still on the bus that stays on is the one that is the is the one who and he he's talked about this before too, but like the one who is not fall I mean the traditional roles of society, and it's the friend who

who she is kind of calling out for like you know, hooking up with different men and whatnot, uh not not being what not doing what a normal mother or wife is supposed to be doing. She is the one person that stays in the bus and the bus drives off and they she makes it down, uh presumably while everyone else is kind of like stranded there, like, well, what

do we do now? Oh? That was so great man, because they all follow her because she clearly, I mean she doesn't say come with me, but she she takes that lead and everyone follows her because no one felt safe. Um and and it's you're right. It's so complex because I think she realizes very soon after, like did I overreact? She's sort of questioning herself, and everyone else is kind

of like, well thanks a lot, lady. Like no one says anything, though, but you can just read that the mood of the crowd of like, well, fuck, now we're out here on this road. And it ends with that great shot of the dad. Uh you know, the guy asked if he wants a cigarette he's holding his son's hand, little Harry, and he says no, but then he says yes, and Harry asked him if he smokes, and he says yes, and it's like he's he's finally like he's finally done

something honest in this movie. Yeah, at the very end. Yeah, yeah, it's a it's it's great. Um. I don't know, I could. We could continue to break it down for another five hours if you want, but I know now I think we did it. Uh, such a great movie. You definitely got us check this out. Um, if you're listening to this and you haven't seen it, or if you saw Downhill and I didn't love it, see the original. It is so good. And this is a filmmaker. I can't

wait to see the Square. Um, I told you watch the trailer right after this, and he's he's on my list now. It's like a new favorite. So thank you yea. Yeah, And I wanted there's another quote that I found that this this interview in The Guardian that he had I wanted to feel as m important to share because he talks about how he he never kills characters in his movies. Um, and that's like and so this with the quote is that the industry is perverted when it comes to violence.

Of course, it's an easy way to create a dramatic event. But my view is that human beings are copycats. We imitate what we see. If you're reproducing pictures of men running around with guns, people will imitate that. Look at any high school shooting and the images of killers, the images that killers take of themselves in the mirror. It's so obvious to me that they're copying a character. And and so like he that was that stems from this idea that he doesn't it doesn't kill people, doesn't have

people die in his movies. Um, and they're really like they come from a deeply internal place. And I don't know, it's a it's another thing that I'm it's it's made me now look at what I'm what I'm doing. And I think that's that's the power of a of a great filmmaker is just you know, inspire others. Man. Yeah, he's not killing anyone in his movies. I feel like the fate of his characters is even worse. He's brutalizing

them still. Yeah, but he's not He's not letting them off easy by telling the death of shame is almost more. It's that's more like when you have to live with deep shame is more painful than a quick death. I could be heading so and that's put his characters through. Alright, brother, that was great, Thanks again for turning me onto that movie. This is a new favorite. I can't wait to watch it again already. I'm gonna watch it with Emily, I

think soon, because she didn't get to see it. But congratulations, dude on all your success. So proud of you. I've known you and Joey for so many years now, and I'm glad that we've stayed pals, and I can't wait to see what you do next. I'm I'm the charter member of the ndcr A fan Club. Thank you, buddy,

I am. I am. You know, I still feel like I'm one of the one of the earlier stuff you should know fans of course, back in the back in the days when we had our our CD spen know, all full of episodes to listen to on the road. So I am. I'm a friend and family member and fans for life. So I'm happy we gotta catch up like this. Thank you for having me on. All right, everyone, check out check out Palm Springs on Hulu. Leave a review online going Rotten Tomatoes and juice that score up

even more but very good movie. Go check it out, Andy Sara, thanks for being on my friend. Thank you all right, everyone, I hope you enjoyed that. Sure did. It was good talking to my friend and he is awesome. Forest Massure is great. We had a really good conversation about it. It was also great to pick his brain about screenwriting and sort of his process and how he got to where he is now. I'm very excited for my friend and I just can't wait to see what

comes next. It's just the best thing ever. The next best thing to me being a screenwriter is Andy. So I hope you guys enjoyed that. Big thanks to Andy. H check out Palm Springs again, really fun movie on Hulu and leave a good review for it. And uh big thanks to Andy for dropping in in the old virtual basement, and thanks to you guys for listening. We'll see you next week. Lulie Crush has produced, edited and engineered by Ramsey Unt. You're in our home studio at

pont City Market, Atlanta, Georgia. For I Heart Radio. For more podcasts, for my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.