This transcript is auto-generated.
00:00:01:11 - 00:00:02:12
MC
Welcome to Money Matters, a podcast that focuses on how to use the money you have, to make the money you need and save the money you want. Now here is your host, MS. Kim Chapman.
00:00:14:16 - 00:00:35:19
Kim Chapman (host)
Welcome to another edition of Money Matters. I'm your host and the financial wellness director for Neighbors Federal Credit Union, Kim Chapman. Whether you're joining us for the first time or whether you've tuned in before, please hit this subscribe button so you will be notified when we have a new episode.
The quote for today reads Life is about how you handle Plan B.
If Plan A was to marry the love of your life, and live happily ever after, but now you find yourself working on a new plan. This podcast might just be what you need for your Plan B. Today we will explore divorce in money from a female perspective, because divorce can impact the money you have, the money you need, and definitely the money you want.
But don't worry, fellas, We will spotlight divorce and money from a male perspective in an upcoming episode. So again, be sure that you hit the subscribe button so you won't miss that episode is sure to be as exciting as this one is. My first guess is Attorney Elle Virdure. Elle is no stranger to Neighbors. She has been a guest speaker in the past for Neighbors with some of our live education workshops, she will provide some legal tips on how women can gain or maintain their financial independence before, during, and even after the divorce.
I'm also going to be joined by another female that has been through a divorce, and she's going to share some of her stories and issues that she faced financially when going through a divorce. Elle it is so good to see you. Welcome back. I'm glad that we can do this face to face and we can kind of put some of these major pandemic woes behind us. So tell us what's been going on. How have you been? How's the family before we get started?
00:01:57:12 - 00:02:26:09
Attorney Elle Virdure
Yes, well, thank you. Kim and Neighbors Federal Credit Union for inviting me to join y'all in this conversation today. It's truly an honor to share this platform with you. It is such a pleasure to meet you as well. How this to this day, I am Elle Virdure, the managing attorney at Virdure Law Firm. My practice focuses on personal injury, worker's compensation, estate and family planning and similar civil immigration at the Virdure law firm.
We protect the personal rights of injured persons, families, sponsors and beneficiaries in our community. I am a wife and mother. I've been with my husband for 21 years. I have two beautiful children. We are a Louisiana family. Before we go further, I am going to state my disclosure. This portion of today's workshop is for general information purposes only. Nothing stated today should be taking as legal advice for any individual case or situation. This information is not intended to create, nor constitute an attorney client relationship. Please contact a qualified attorney to address your specific legal needs within your jurisdiction. All matters addressed under Louisiana law today. So tell me what. What do you want to talk about? First, dealing with money matters regarding divorce.
00:03:29:14 - 00:03:50:19
Kim Chapman (host)
So we know that, of course, with divorce, there's a lot of financial woes that individuals, especially females, endure. And so I want to just kind of start and pick up with any trends that you're seeing right now. If you look at the news, you'll see that the pandemic has caused an uptick in domestic violence. And so I would imagine divorce would go hand in hand.
So just recently, have you seen any upticks, you know, any increases in divorces in your practice?
00:03:57:14 - 00:04:23:29
Attorney Elle Virdure
Absolutely. So, you know, just briefly, we talk about everyone says half of marriages fail. Right. We've heard that statistic, which is actually a little misleading. So that was based on a 1980 study. Okay. So once we got a little bit further ahead, it was more like about a 39% chance of failing. So a little bit better than 50%.
00:04:24:09 - 00:04:43:19
Attorney Elle Virdure
However, after the pandemic it went up by about 34%. Okay. So when you talk about you don't know a person until you live with them or you don't know a person to live, lived through a pandemic with him. Okay. So you are spending all of your time, you're doing homeschooling. You're working from home. You're actually living in the home.
00:04:43:19 - 00:04:50:15
Attorney Elle Virdure
You are confined in this space. Together. 24, seven. Sometimes it feels like 28. 17, right.
00:04:51:16 - 00:04:58:26
Kim Chapman (host)
So I was looking at a statistic and it said basically three fourths of divorces are filed by women. Do you find that to be true?
00:04:59:19 - 00:05:27:27
Attorney Elle Virdure
I do find that to be true because when a woman gets fed up right she makes that emotional decision first. Right. A man can stay there and deal with an unhappy marriage a little bit longer than a woman can. Right. Because of the emotional side of it first. Right. Then you get to the point where, you know, most of it is dealing with money or with infidelity.
00:05:28:09 - 00:05:44:20
Attorney Elle Virdure
So I don't want to say that men are more likely to have those issues versus women, but it's just a problem that we can't stay in that situation and just status quo. We have to make matters better.
00:05:45:00 - 00:06:02:09
Kim Chapman (host)
Okay. And so before we go a little bit further, I want to go ahead and bring in our other guests and let her tell you a little bit about herself. How long ago it was she was divorced. And then we'll start getting into the financial aspect of it and see, you know, what tips a female can take. What do they need to do to prepare themselves financially?
00:06:02:11 - 00:06:35:00
Frances
Okay. My name is Frances and I am remarried at this point of divorce that's been about six years separated. And then the divorce and I have three children and life is good. Plan B doesn't have to be the end result because you can still find happiness in the midst of the divorce. Financial recovery, if you want to call it that, is just an awesome thing when you realize that you truly need love and you deserve love.
00:06:35:28 - 00:06:42:20
Frances
So being able to understand, evaluate and fix whatever the issue might have been.
00:06:43:02 - 00:06:52:15
Kim Chapman (host)
So let's talk about some of those issues. What do you think is the biggest financial challenge that women face when they are in a circumstance when, you know, even before they file for the divorce.
00:06:54:06 - 00:07:18:07
Attorney Elle Virdure
I think a lot of it is. Well, let me phrase it like this. There's a saying and I know you all have heard it. A wise woman builds her house, but a foolish woman tears it down with her own hands. I feel like a lot of times women give up their power when they get in these relationships. The man chose you for a reason.
00:07:18:15 - 00:07:43:28
Attorney Elle Virdure
He chose you because of your strength. But somehow, when we get in these relationships, we bow down our strength to that of his. But both can be strong, but it's in different ways. Right. So when we talk about the financial aspect of a family, you have to know your role. You have to know what your routine is, and you have to know your rights.
00:07:44:05 - 00:08:06:11
Attorney Elle Virdure
Right when you are in a marital or just really any relationship where you you know, you could be. Well, but this is not a common law state, but you could be domestic, you know, partners or you could be marital or you could be boyfriend and girlfriend. You guys are sharing bills, right? But the biggest thing is that know how you all are dealing with finances.
00:08:06:22 - 00:08:40:20
Attorney Elle Virdure
Who is the strong one in finance? Right. I heard someone say the other day that their grandfather bought his whole check to the grandmother for the entirety of the marriage, and that was to relieve him of the responsibility of dealing with the bills. And it's to let her know some sort of transparency. Right. But if each person deals with finances in a different way and you guys don't discuss that before you get in this committed relationship, there's chaos.
00:08:40:28 - 00:08:52:08
Attorney Elle Virdure
Right? So the first thing I would say, a lot of people get in a relationship and they say, I'm going to go to a marriage counselor, but have you gone to a financial planner? Before, during or after the divorce?
00:08:52:10 - 00:09:14:02
Kim Chapman (host)
I was actually surprised at the statistics that at least 58% of couples share at least one account. I worked in a branch for years and so many couples came in, but they had separate accounts. So you want to share your your aspect if you have joint accounts or did you have individual accounts and which one work best for you?
00:09:14:23 - 00:09:36:24
Frances
At first we had joint accounts that didn't seem to work very well. So then we went to the individual accounts. And however, then because the plan of action initially was the joint account would be where we pooled individually to the pool into one account. But if no one is paying attention to all three accounts, then we don't always know what's going on.
00:09:37:03 - 00:10:02:05
Frances
So we determined that the joint account for everything wasn't working. So then we became individual accounts and it seemed to work a little better. Things got covered Both of us were pretty much active in and I think that's what helped me through the process. I was just as active as paying the bills knowing what was going on, using my credit, as well as using his credit.
00:10:02:24 - 00:10:17:08
Kim Chapman (host)
So do you have a recommendation or what do you think is generally the better circumstance when there is a dissolution of marriage? When you have couples that come to you and they have joint accounts or individual accounts, which one has the seems to have the larger issues?
00:10:17:18 - 00:10:47:18
Attorney Elle Virdure
It's on a case by case basis. Okay. Everyone's relationship is different because everyone is different. Everyone moves through money in a different way. Some people move through money. They only have joint accounts. Everyone has access to it. But usually usually there's only one strong financial manager in the relationship. It's very rare that I see both of them actually strong in finances.
00:10:47:22 - 00:11:14:23
Attorney Elle Virdure
There's usually a spender and there's a saver right now. One is not better than the other per se, but I think it depends on the relationship, which is why you need to refer to your financial planner or advisor and refer to your maybe couples therapist or your marriage counselor because they can. I did imply some things in you that you don't identify in yourself.
00:11:14:25 - 00:11:16:27
Attorney Elle Virdure
So it's on a case by case basis.
00:11:17:08 - 00:11:46:22
Kim Chapman (host)
Okay. So we have couples as the statistic states that have those joint accounts and even the ones that have individual accounts. There was another statistic that was not so surprising that again, over 50% of couples have that secret account. So when it comes to somebody that's going to file for divorce, how easy or difficult is it if you have a spouse that has those secret accounts, is it really challenging for you as an attorney representing somebody to be able to find out where that money is hidden?
00:11:46:27 - 00:12:17:25
Attorney Elle Virdure
Well, it's called an investigator. I can go ahead and hire a private investigator to find anything that I need to know about you. But if you are a woman, you have certain intuitions to know the movements of your man or your partner. You know their movements, you know where they go, you know, kind of their routine. And yeah, it's a secret account, but usually it's not secret.
00:12:18:08 - 00:12:25:20
Attorney Elle Virdure
Usually, you know, you've seen some mail, you've seen an email, you've seen something come through that jog your memory when the time is right.
00:12:26:13 - 00:12:43:15
Kim Chapman (host)
Is there anything in particular that you would even recommend to a spouse that's thinking about getting divorced to make sure that they what are the things? Just like you sort of mentioned watching where they go, that they should, you know, that they should be able to do to say, okay, I know that this is how much money should be coming in the household.
00:12:43:15 - 00:12:48:13
Kim Chapman (host)
It's not how can they look for checking accounts? How can they look for savings accounts?
00:12:48:19 - 00:13:18:06
Attorney Elle Virdure
Well, I think some of it is. So I'll put my my legal attorney hat down for a second. So just as a woman, we are very intuitive. So we know how to investigate. We know how to get down to the bottom of things. We know how to calculate whether something makes sense and whether it doesn't. And when it doesn't start making sense, then you put on other hats and you proceed as necessary.
00:13:18:12 - 00:13:39:07
Attorney Elle Virdure
Right. So if you need to go and hire an investigator or if you need to talk to a financial advisor, sometimes a lot of my couples, they have power of attorney over each other. So that provides certain legal opportunities to find what you need to find.
00:13:39:10 - 00:13:48:03
Kim Chapman (host)
Can you expand a little bit more on that? You know, what can I do if I have power of attorney over my spouse, what is what can it give me the right to do?
00:13:48:04 - 00:14:17:00
Attorney Elle Virdure
So sometimes it can give you the right to move as necessary for the benefit of your spouse. Right. I know when you're going through let's say let's you went through buying a house, right? You had access to that credit report or to all the debts that your spouse had. And that kind of opened some sort of transparent U.S. between the two of you because you're like, wait, I didn't know you had this debt.
00:14:17:19 - 00:14:24:01
Attorney Elle Virdure
So usually you have a copy somewhere and that is where you start the breadcrumbs Okay.
00:14:24:19 - 00:14:38:02
Kim Chapman (host)
So I want to ask you, were there any surprises in terms of hidden accounts? Do you have any hidden accounts? Did you find that your spouse had any hidden accounts or were there any financial surprises as the divorce move forward?
00:14:38:26 - 00:15:08:00
Frances
Actually, there was not. I knew of all accounts in all of my accounts. So there was no. Most of my friends said my divorce was too easy. Basically, we had the communication. We tried working through what we needed to work through to try to make it work. It just didn't we don't know if we basically waited too long, stretched too far.
00:15:08:17 - 00:15:37:14
Frances
I don't know. Going in opposite directions. So nothing was a surprise. It was just a process Was it comfortable still yet? Because it was no surprise, no comfort, comfort level confidence. All of that was a factor on making it a decision. We drug it as long as we could, did what we thought we needed to do. Children were grown.
00:15:38:07 - 00:15:40:26
Frances
So why are we continuing to hang on?
00:15:41:01 - 00:15:52:12
Kim Chapman (host)
Well, that's good to know that somebody could go through the process easily. But I have to ask if you could do what all over again financially, what would be some things that you would change financially?
00:15:53:16 - 00:16:19:00
Frances
I think everything was on point simply because I was active. I still was the one that handled the bills. He could have done it as well. So in our case, we were opposite of the statistics. We both could have done it. That was my responsibility. I made sure the bills got paid Household had light, had water, had this at this and this and this and that.
00:16:20:03 - 00:16:47:03
Frances
But in some cases, we as women give up our power and we're in the dark on a lot of things. That could cause issues if we were to go through that divorce. So Plan B is I don't know what to do. I I was a housewife. I took care of the kids. I took care of the home. He took care of me.
00:16:47:23 - 00:17:09:10
Frances
So now what do I do? He no longer wants to take care of me. And I don't know how to. So then where do we go? So that's where your plan B is, Will? Somewhere in there. We need to. Not that you want to plan that your marriage is going to end in a divorce, but you need to be self-sufficient.
00:17:10:07 - 00:17:35:19
Frances
We are both individual people. And if you comply or conform yourself to him, then you become him. Who are you? You are an individual person. You have your individual lives, have your individual friends. So if you shut yourself off from everybody and everything, then you've lost yourself. So then how do you recover? You have to start utilizing yourself.
00:17:35:28 - 00:17:57:03
Frances
Your strength is within you, not from him. Your finances, even though if you are a housewife, still know how to do what needs to happen and keep your your work ethics on point kind of thing, even if you're just doing bookkeeping for somebody or something of that nature.
00:17:57:26 - 00:18:15:28
Kim Chapman (host)
So how since not everybody is is fortune is, I guess, and that they've had those easy divorces. When you do have these females that come in your office, in their finances or in that in order, and it's not that easy process. What are your recommendations? What are you having them do? You know, here it is. I come to you.
00:18:15:28 - 00:18:30:05
Kim Chapman (host)
I'm emotional. I'm upset. I want to get a divorce. And I'm sure that there are some financial things that you need to know. What are some of those things that you're going to require as pieces of information to even get started on a divorce? What do you need to know?
00:18:30:25 - 00:19:02:03
Attorney Elle Virdure
Well, first you start with your debts, right? You have to know what you owe You have to know what you're bringing in. Sometimes women don't know what's coming in. Right. They don't they can't pinpoint it down to a number. Right. Not everyone is as transparent with all of the streams of revenue that they have. So today's time, I mean, we have a lot of women who are doing very well for themselves.
00:19:02:17 - 00:19:30:00
Attorney Elle Virdure
But even if it's going out faster than you can count it, then, you know, we have to have a baseline. But I think the first thing when someone comes in to say, hey, I want to get a divorce, will have you went to counseling individually and collectively? You should never make a Life-Changing Decision off of emotion off of a circumstance.
00:19:30:00 - 00:19:57:05
Attorney Elle Virdure
Life is hard. Life throws challenges. Nothing is perfect. Have you gone to that counselor Because a lot of times it's a healing process that needs to occur within you individually in order for you collectively to heal whether you're going to stay together or not. So that's one of the first questions, because you don't want to make financial decisions when you're in emotional state because you're going to be all over the place.
00:19:57:05 - 00:20:43:02
Attorney Elle Virdure
You're going to be making all kinds of purchases and just doing random things. You need a plan, right? So collecting those streams of revenue and streams of income, collecting all of the debts that you have, establishing how much you're bringing into the household. Because there is a statistic that basically any spouse that is making less than about 80% and a lot of women are making less than 80% of the household income who are going to take a strong financial hit because and I shouldn't say a lot, but some women, they want stability.
00:20:43:14 - 00:20:52:28
Attorney Elle Virdure
And that is why you got married in the first place. So knowing why you came to that marriage establishes how you're going to get out of that marriage.
00:20:53:21 - 00:21:06:10
Kim Chapman (host)
So I come to you, I want to file for divorce, but he makes all the money and we're not speaking to each other. We're upset. He has cut me off. All I have is my little paycheck. What can you tell me? How can you help me?
00:21:07:01 - 00:21:38:03
Attorney Elle Virdure
So you have to I mean, this is some of these circumstances are there on a case by case basis. There's many factors. What type of education do you have? What type of skill set do you have? Are there children involved? Do you have any property that is your separate property? Do you have any passive income? You know, there are many things that you have to consider when you're talking about exiting a marriage.
00:21:38:09 - 00:22:11:09
Attorney Elle Virdure
I mean, marriage fundamentally is established to build wealth you're bringing two incomes together to skill sets, together to build something. But divorce by nature breaks that down. It breaks down that wealth and it splits it. Right. So you have to come up with a new plan to establish that new way to build wealth. Right. You're going to break down everything that you've built up by the divorce.
00:22:11:22 - 00:22:39:21
Attorney Elle Virdure
Right. A lot of our grandparents and great grandparents, I mean, I luckily still have my great grandmother who's living hopefully for a few more years, you know. But they preach, stay together. But in the instance that you can't stay together, you have to know how to properly depart. If you all have built up so much wealth, but then you've also built up so much debt, how are you going to get out of that?
00:22:40:04 - 00:22:56:04
Attorney Elle Virdure
Well, you all have to come up with hopefully a mutual agreement. And if you can't, then your attorney, who you have came to in to bring this problem to they are going to pose some options for you on how to get rid of this debt.
00:22:56:23 - 00:23:13:22
Kim Chapman (host)
And I guess, did you find at any point either before or during your divorce that maybe your wealth may have gone down, maybe that it looked a little less? And if so, how long after divorce did you find that you felt that you were back, restore it at a place of financial well-being?
00:23:14:16 - 00:23:50:29
Frances
I would say yes. And it took about maybe three to four years where I felt that I really felt that I was comfortable being able to handle what I needed to be handled and that all it takes is is sitting down and being honest with yourself. A budget, your bet, your bills, the income that's coming in What needs to be eliminated that I can no longer afford at this point, whether it be the gym, whether it be going out to lunch or whatever the issue is, you might have to stop doing everything to figure it out.
00:23:51:11 - 00:24:15:03
Frances
But there's always that, as they say, as we say in church, is the small things that can take your budget completely out of whack a coach every day, six coffee every day, little small things that you're not paying quite enough attention to when you're going through a divorce. Not that life stops because it doesn't. But you would have to reevaluate.
00:24:15:22 - 00:24:38:04
Kim Chapman (host)
And I think you kind of feed into the questions that I wanted to ask to each of you ness. I'm sure there are a lot of women that are listening to this particular podcast that are staying in the marriage because of finances. They want out. They want a divorce. But just based on the information that we've shared, you know, we've discussed the fact that, yes, their their lifestyle, their income is going to be impacted one way or another.
00:24:38:10 - 00:24:53:00
Kim Chapman (host)
What advice would each of you give to that person, this listening in terms of financial help that they can restore and regain from this particular circumstance? That you don't want to stay in a marriage just because you're worried about your finances and all that. Our guests go first.
00:24:53:26 - 00:24:55:05
Attorney Elle Virdure
Oh, okay.
00:24:57:12 - 00:25:25:09
Frances
My initial thought on that is I can't make that decision for you. When you're ready, you'll be ready when you need to make the decision. You're going to have to rely on the law to know that it's going to be okay because some people can they can fix it. But if they're there and life is miserable, when you have enough, you'll make the decision.
00:25:27:00 - 00:25:28:24
Kim Chapman (host)
So I'll let you answer that as well.
00:25:28:27 - 00:25:59:03
Attorney Elle Virdure
Okay. So this wouldn't be advice more as a thought provoking question. Why did you get into the marriage in the first place? Did you get into it to be taken care of and you wasn't worried about what he was doing or not doing right? Or did you get into the marriage for love? You know, because love. You know, sometimes you in love.
00:25:59:03 - 00:26:31:21
Attorney Elle Virdure
Sometimes you're not in love. And sometimes, you know, it's up or down. Right. But as individual as we grow and we flourish and we evolve into something else and it's a conversation, right? It's a conversation. Most communication, I mean, fails, right? It it fails in relationships, especially when you've been together for, you know, really any time over like five years, you know, it starts failing because you don't work at it.
00:26:32:00 - 00:27:03:28
Attorney Elle Virdure
Marriages work, you know, and so if if it's something that you say, hey, I still you know what? I just want to be taken care of, then that is your choice. You can stay in that marriage and you don't need the love and affection and whatever may maybe you might be getting it from somebody, somebody else. Everybody's marriage is different, but what type of marriage do you want to have now is the question that you should be asking yourself, do you want that relationship now?
00:27:04:04 - 00:27:17:05
Attorney Elle Virdure
Is this person going to be able to give that to you or to work with you to obtain that? And then if that question can be answered, then you can move from there.
00:27:17:25 - 00:27:38:28
Kim Chapman (host)
So for that person, again, they're sitting at the house wondering, you know, when should I make that decision and then necessarily win. But they're worried about the finances. When and how does alimony come into play? If I'm worried about, hey, I know that I can't make it on my own with this income. And we talked a little bit earlier about maybe the female may make less than 80% of the income in the household.
00:27:39:09 - 00:27:49:01
Kim Chapman (host)
Should I be? How would I know if I'm going to be a candidate and I know it's individual liberties, but what are just the general rules about alimony? Who who's entitled to alimony?
00:27:49:02 - 00:28:22:14
Attorney Elle Virdure
Okay. So it's basically on a need base right? It's on a need base. It depends on what the parties can do. What is your skill set? How is your family makeup? Right. There is some things when we talk about alimony, we talk about there's you know, there's two types, right? There's one that is a permanent alimony, and then there's one that's an interim until the judge has made his final decree.
00:28:23:23 - 00:29:00:06
Attorney Elle Virdure
So it's really just need basis. Right. If you were used to like let's say you were the stay at home mom, right? You're a stay at home mom. You're taking care of all the financials and all of the management of the family and your husband. Let's just put them at 150,000 a year. The judge is going to consider that if you have a skill set or if you don't have skill set, the judge may say hey, we're going to put it in the decree that he's going to have to pay for your education, pay for some type of skill set.
00:29:00:19 - 00:29:27:04
Attorney Elle Virdure
What do you have that we can move forward towards? What are you interested in? So it's really on a case by case basis, but it's based off of need. And then together with that is also any type of child support. If there are children involved in there, it's based on the need of the child. It's based on the ability of the parents if one is a stay at home mom, then financially maybe she doesn't have the skill set possible.
00:29:27:04 - 00:29:34:04
Attorney Elle Virdure
So the dad is going to have to pitch in. But once she gets to that, then they will both be considered for each income on that.
00:29:34:12 - 00:29:53:00
Kim Chapman (host)
Okay. So I want to talk a little bit. A lot of this has kind of been a focus on what should we do in terms of preparation for the divorce. A little bit on the outcome, but in the midst of divorce, let's talk about what are some of the rights or responsibilities. And let's just say I'm that person I want to get divorced and my income is bad.
00:29:53:06 - 00:29:58:22
Kim Chapman (host)
Can I file bankruptcy? Do I? Does my husband have to join in on a bankruptcy? And I filed by myself.
00:29:59:11 - 00:30:26:00
Attorney Elle Virdure
So obviously I would defer to a bankruptcy attorney, which I am not. But I can let you know that there will be no judgment on a bankruptcy. You can file in the middle of divorce, but nothing will be done until that judge has established what his final decree will be. Because anybody can just file a divorce and be like, I mean, file for bankruptcy and be like, look, I don't have any money.
00:30:26:13 - 00:30:42:14
Attorney Elle Virdure
I'm out of here, you know? But the bankruptcy courts are not going to put their final stamp and final judgment on that bankruptcy to even consider it until after the divorce judge has made his final deal.
00:30:42:15 - 00:31:03:03
Kim Chapman (host)
So in that meantime, as a female, how would I protect my assets, his assets? How would I even protect my credit once we for example. Okay, I'm living over here. You're living over here. We're waiting for the process of the divorce. Can I can obtain credit? Would you, you know, not necessarily recommend it, but how is that how is that handled?
00:31:04:02 - 00:31:22:08
Kim Chapman (host)
There was a story that I heard of one particular young lady, she her husband actually just kind of walked away, disappeared. But in the interim, he obtained some debt in both of their names as she was not aware of. And so, again, I know it's case by case. So but how should a female protect themselves and protect their credit?
00:31:22:26 - 00:31:51:10
Attorney Elle Virdure
So first, you want to make sure that you motion the court to officially stop anything moving forward. This is officially a separation, right? Because anything after that time will be his own personal debt. And they can back address that. Like they can go back and say, you know what, this was after this date. So that has nothing to do with the marriage.
00:31:52:09 - 00:31:57:04
Kim Chapman (host)
Does Louisiana still honoring legal separations or is it you're married or divorced?
00:31:59:13 - 00:32:22:25
Attorney Elle Virdure
This is it. I'd like to say yes, but in practice, it depends on the judge. Then that's why I say you motion the court and get them to put something in writing for you to establish that in practice, it would be per se a separation. But it's not like it is in other states.
00:32:22:26 - 00:32:34:27
Kim Chapman (host)
And I actually I guess we're there. Any steps that you took in particular once you knew that it was at a point where you were going to file to protect your assets, was there anything that you did specifically with your bank accounts, with your credit?
00:32:35:20 - 00:33:04:07
Frances
Well, I would say since we were already separate, the only thing we might have had that was a joint was my vehicle. So I didn't have to take any major steps to protect anything No, I didn't have to do anything in particular simply because it was all somewhat separate. I would imagine if it was joint all the way down from bank accounts to credit.
00:33:05:01 - 00:33:09:17
Frances
That makes it a little bit more stickier. But I didn't have that.
00:33:10:02 - 00:33:16:13
Kim Chapman (host)
So can you talk a little bit about Louisiana being a community property state and what that actually means for couples?
00:33:16:19 - 00:33:49:12
Attorney Elle Virdure
Absolutely. So community property, we call it the regime community property. It's basically any property that you have acquired during the marriage while the marriage is valid, is presumed to be community. Okay. And I say presumed because there are ways that you can establish a property during the marriage as separate property. Separate property is something usually and this goes for separate property.
00:33:49:12 - 00:34:40:02
Attorney Elle Virdure
It also goes for community property, community debt, separate property, separate debt. So the separated property is anything that you have acquired or obtained ownership of prior to the marriage or even after the marriage has terminated. And so a separate property can also be it anything that you have inherited that is deemed by law to be separate property Some people turn it into community property because they want to share that with their spouse, but it is generally separate property and so you can have separate property, but the income from that separate property during the marriage could be considered community property.
00:34:40:14 - 00:34:51:02
Attorney Elle Virdure
So it's you know, it's one of those things that it's on a case by case basis, but generally those are the law.
00:34:51:23 - 00:35:00:20
Kim Chapman (host)
So in terms of the debt that's accumulated during the marriage, if I have my own credit and he has his own credit, is that how we walk away?
00:35:01:24 - 00:35:02:08
Attorney Elle Virdure
No.
00:35:03:12 - 00:35:03:24
Frances
No.
00:35:04:22 - 00:35:33:14
Attorney Elle Virdure
So it depends on what it this is where it gets sticky. So it depends on what that debt was used for. You can dissect it down to whether that debt was used for the community or if it was used just for you. If she is running up bills right to go see another man, you know, she has hotel bills.
00:35:33:14 - 00:35:58:13
Attorney Elle Virdure
Yes, whatever. And that is during the marriage. Well, that's not going to be community debt, right? Because if you can prove that this happen and vice versa. Right. If he was using this, you know, credit card or whatever to go fly off, you know, his mistress, you know, in the in the dark. Well, that's not community debt. Right.
00:35:58:23 - 00:36:11:22
Attorney Elle Virdure
So it depends on my good rule of thumb is you follow the money wherever ever the money is going. That's what it's going to be. Likely deemed as community or separate. Okay.
00:36:12:03 - 00:36:33:15
Kim Chapman (host)
I don't think it's any secret that if a couple is divorcing and they are on the same page in terms of it being an amicable divorce, what are some of the things that you would recommend that they work out financially before they come to see you? That will keep down the cost of the divorce, that may preserve the integrity of their credit as well as their assets.
00:36:33:25 - 00:37:05:00
Attorney Elle Virdure
Everything I would say try to have that agreement on everything. The more that you all see, the courts don't want to get involved in domestic situations and domestic issues. They're not there. They're only there to say, Okay, if you guys cannot work it out now we're here. We're here to tell you what to do. But if you all can work it out, do it.
00:37:05:09 - 00:37:52:15
Attorney Elle Virdure
If you can say Hey, let's just split the property and the debt down the middle, I'll take the Amex. Did you take the visa? Did I take the taxes on this property? You take the taxes on that property and you just take that property, right? If you can divide it down there, that is the best way possible. And sometimes you may need that attorney or that mediator to come up with creative options for on how everyone can win, quote unquote, in the situation right where no one feels like they are losing you know, you want to have an amicable situation and you want to have the options for both spouse where no one feels like they're
00:37:52:15 - 00:37:54:06
Attorney Elle Virdure
railroaded. Right.
00:37:55:10 - 00:38:16:13
Kim Chapman (host)
And I want to just touch the last family on this in terms of the credit, because obviously with finances involved and the separation and the debt generally, credit and credit scores are impacted. So I just want to check with our guests real quickly. Did you find that your credit score was impacted at all before, during and after the divorce as a result of the divorce?
00:38:16:25 - 00:38:41:10
Frances
Actually, no. And I say that, as Michelle explained, we sat down individually and wrote down all of the debt that we had. And at this point, then we determine what we're going to do with it, if it's going to be yours is going to be mine. And basically just continue to pay the debt that I had until we determined what was going to happen, what we had.
00:38:41:16 - 00:39:03:06
Frances
We had a vacation home together we had my vehicle, things of that nature that were together. But you list your debt, I list mine. And so then we know what to and then we weren't battling, we weren't fighting. We weren't doing all these extra kind of things that would have delayed and had us to pay more because now we're fighting and now someone has to help us to determine what it is.
00:39:03:13 - 00:39:09:11
Frances
We came to the table and said, this is my debt, this is what I'm keeping, this is his debt, that's what he's keeping, and we're done.
00:39:09:22 - 00:39:23:16
Kim Chapman (host)
And actually, the final question and so many of these divorces are not going to be friendly and amicable. Are there any final tips that you would suggest to our women in terms of preparing themselves financially before they come and approach that attorney?
00:39:24:12 - 00:39:48:14
Attorney Elle Virdure
Well, once again, I'd always say just in the community, you have to go see a financial planner, a financial advisor a CPA, someone you need to see that whether you're getting divorced or not. Right. You need that elite, that financial mind that's going to look at everything and say, you know what, you're really not in a position to get divorced right now.
00:39:49:17 - 00:40:15:22
Attorney Elle Virdure
Like, honestly, you don't have skills you don't have, you know, anything set up. What is your plan? Right. Because once you get out of this marriage, you are going to be on your own. You will have no one there paying your bills, no one to bounce ideas off of. You need a plan right? This needs to be done in or out of marriage.
00:40:16:06 - 00:40:38:20
Attorney Elle Virdure
So that is the first step, right? You have to be strategic about these these plans. You it's a business move. Marriage is a business like they say, church is a business. You know, marriage is a business. And some people get married for that business. You want to put two companies together. Okay, well, let's have the children marry each other.
00:40:38:29 - 00:41:04:18
Attorney Elle Virdure
It is a business and it could be a good business or it could be a bad business. But you need to find out that financially you follow the money. Where are you seeing yourself in six months? You're not ready to get out of this marriage right now. You don't have even $1,000 in the savings account. You don't have money to move right So you need to come up with that plan.
00:41:04:18 - 00:41:24:19
Attorney Elle Virdure
I'd say go see that financial advisor, not a tax preparer, a CPA, an actual financial planner, because you might once you get it all, you know, I'll figure it out. You might say, hey, I'm I actually think we might be a little bit better and it might look a little more greener on this side.
00:41:28:02 - 00:41:33:06
Attorney Elle Virdure
You know that. I mean, it's happened. You know, I've had some they get in the motions.
00:41:33:06 - 00:41:36:07
Frances
And they like, you know what? I think I'm going.
00:41:36:18 - 00:41:37:06
Attorney Elle Virdure
I'm I give it a.
00:41:37:06 - 00:41:38:18
Frances
Second try. It's not as bad.
00:41:38:20 - 00:41:39:29
Attorney Elle Virdure
And ain't a bad as I thought it.
00:41:39:29 - 00:42:05:24
Kim Chapman (host)
Was. Well, I want to thank both you ladies for both your perspectives on money and divorce. I think we've learned a lot here today. And then we're going to be followed up in just a moment for the Money Minute Money is the threat of every relationship, both good and bad. No matter how you characterize your relationship. Here are some tips that can help you prepare for the unexpected.
00:42:06:23 - 00:42:26:21
Kim Chapman (host)
Number one, work toward having a fully funded emergency fund. And that's going to be three to six months of your living expenses that can really help you, especially if you have a loss of income because of a divorce schedule, an appointment with one of our certified financial counselors. You heard our attorney, guest speaker speak so many times on talking to an advisor.
00:42:26:25 - 00:42:44:04
Kim Chapman (host)
We have free financial counselors that could give you a financial checkup at least once a year. Again, whether your relationship is in a good spot or a bad spot, it's something we highly recommend. And then if you have a joint account, check with your financial institution and learn what options you have if you need to dissolve that account.
00:42:44:11 - 00:42:55:23
Kim Chapman (host)
And then finally check out neighbors FCU that or slash financial education to learn more on how to use the money you have to make the money you need and save the money you want.