Pension Delays Apology and Romance Scams

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Hello, welcome to this Money Box podcast. One listener looking for love explained how a£50 loan turned into a£30,000 romance fraud by a thief. The government wants to replace the lifetime ICER which helps people buy their first home, but will it be better or worse? And as the cold bites, listeners ask why a one hundred and fifty pound discount off one electricity bill for six million people may not arrive until spring.

But first, dreadful, shambles, a mess words chosen to describe the current crisis at the Civil Service Pension Scheme by the Chair of Parliament's Public Accounts Committee. Sir Geoffrey Clifton Brown, MP, was speaking after the man responsible for the delays appeared before his committee on Thursday. Richard Holroy is the chief executive of Capita Public Services. It took over the management of the pension scheme in December.

Yn as Moneyboxd reported last week, thousands of retiring civil servants have faced long delays before their pensions are paid. Many are still waiting. The Capita Boss admitted his service had been overwhelmed from the start and apologized for the problems people were facing. People like Julie, who was diagnosed with terminal cancer last summer, but is still owed thousands of pounds from her pension. This is causing me and my family, not just me, but my family.

difficulties in emotional, physical. I should be making memories and enjoying my time with my family, my children, my grandchildren, my friends. And I can't Well, Julie's story is just one of dozens investigated by Money Box reporter Dan Whitworth since he first covered this story a week ago. Dan, you watched that committee hearing, you've spoken to people affected like Julie. Just remind us how we got here.

Well when Capita took over the running of the civil service pension scheme, it says it faced a backlog, inherited a backlog. of eighty-six thousand cases, which has subsequently grown to one hundred and twenty thousand cases. Now it's a big scheme: 1.7 million members across 300 government employers, people like prison and probation staff, benefits call handlers.

Border Security and Ministry of Defence Accountants, for example. So it's a broad range. And Julie now has been waiting for her pension for months after it was due. What's the scale of this problem? Well we know there are thousands of cases where people who've been due pension money haven't had it.

Uh people like Kath and Sarah, who are among dozens of listeners who have emailed us moneybox at bbc.co.uk, who I spoke to earlier this week before those Capita bosses appeared in front of MPs on Thursday. Yeah, I don't know what I'm going to get or when I'm going to get anything at all. I have my last salary and now there's nothing. My intention was to use my lump sum to fund our retirement plans.

and then my monthly pension to pay our bills. So it's just left us in a really difficult position. Well at first before MPs on the Public Accounts Committee was Chief Executive of Capita Public Services Richard Holroyd. If I may, I'm going to start with an apology. Mae'r penderfyniad yn ymwneud â'r penderfyniadau'r penderfyniadau, neu'r penderfyniadau a'r penderfyniadau'r penderfyniadau'r penderfyniadau'r penderfyniadau'r penderfyniadau.

Now among the main concerns was about how long people are having to wait for help. MPs heard if people are bereaved their calls to the helpline are answered in less than a minute or in financial hardship less than five. But the committee chair, Sir Geoffrey, asked managing director of Capita Pension Services Chris Clements about everyone else.

If I bring up your helpline now, I'm not in one of those two priority cases. How long will I be waiting? The average wait time last week for not in those priority cases was an hour and fifty five minutes. An hour and forty five minutes. Fifty five, yes.

An hour and fifty five minutes, Dan. They could listen to five money boxes. Yeah, and Capita did tell me late last night those wait times have actually come down significantly. But I have to say, Paul, uh any of those numbers, they don't come close to reflecting many of the stories we've heard of people spending hours and hours across days.

Trying to get through and that is something else Capita apologised for. Now Richard Holroyd also explained Capita hopes to have dealt with all priority cases by the end of February, with able to offer something like a normal service and having that up and running by April. I have this.

uh phrase, the sound of perfect service is silence. So when this service is silent because everybody is getting what they need, Rydyn ni'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd.

ond mae'r peth sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n. For me personally, I didn't get any assurance that uh my case would be looked at. It genuinely appears that Capita had a complete lack of understanding of what they were inheriting. From my perspective, although it doesn't necessarily include me, I think their focus is absolutely on the right things in terms of

the priority cases and dealing with the death in service and the ill health uh retirements and those in hardship. It remains completely unclear when I'll receive my quote.

Moneyboxd listeners Cath and Sarah, ending Dan's report. Well, let's talk now live to Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown, the Conservative Chair of that Public Accounts Committee. Sir Geoffrey, what's your reaction to this serious problem? Well it's absolutely tragic, but we on the Public Accounts Committee are used to dealing with organisations that get things seriously wrong. But this one, involving a hundred one point seven million pensioners, civil service pensioners of all sorts.

Uh uh it's causing real hardships in some cases. We heard, you know, the examples that you produced, the examples we heard in the hearing, people who are expecting to get their pensions when they retire, they're relying on the pensions to pay the mortgage. in deep difficulties, people who uh loved ones have died, expecting to get a lump some payment uh to pay for whatever their plans were. So people at the most tragic point of their life really having their finances interrupted.

So not only are we chasing both the Cabinet Office and Capital very hard to get this put right, But I personally haven't been involved even up as yes far as yesterday in chasing capital up in chasing the Cabinet office up. to really rapidly get up uh hardship schemes in every single one of those three hundred uh government uh bodies and organisations. That have pensioners so that at least pensioners have got a sum of money they can get hold of quickly

to meet those daily daily uh needs that they they they have to spend their money on, whether it be paying a mortgage or whatever. Yeah, I'm sure it's encouraging to the people listening that you're getting to grips with it like that and may may throwing your weight around if I can put it like that. But

During the hearing the deputy chair of your committee, Clive Betts, read out a text from one of his constituents asking why anybody should believe a word capita say. I mean, do you think it will happen?

Well, what I I was on the f on the phone yesterday again to Richard Holroyd after the uh hearing on Thursday, uh just to back up uh what we said and also critically to get their website sorted out so that people can get hold of uh capita if they've got urgent problems and they need to get hold of capital prop uh quickly, they need to be able to get on the website, which I believe they now can, um, uh and relatively get get their details logged in so that hopefully somebody will deal with

Your question is, do I believe they will get it up and running? I don't think they'll get it up and running by the time that Richard Holroyd set up set out. That's um for priority services by the end of February and all the rest by the end of March. There's just an huge amount to do between now and those deadlines. But I've said to him yesterday on my call with him that we will expect him to come back before the committee in April and answer as to whether he's managed to put all this right.

So I mean I think there will be serious embarrassment for capital if they haven't put it right by the end of February and end of March. So we'll see what happens. Yes, and maybe you'll hear the sound of silence or maybe you won't by then. And and very very on that clip when he said uh the s the mark of a successful organization is when it's silent, I said to him immediately, When will it be silent?

And there was almost silence in the answer. So we weren't getting an answer when it would be good. Right. A silent answer. So Jeffrey Tifton Brown, thank you very much for talking to us. HVO100 på utvalda stationer. Fossil olje. Läs ner på. Bra vibrationer, men med lite taskig timing ibland. I alla fall, just nu kostar alla våra mobil abonnemang 20 kronor i månaden i 3 månader. Så nu får du snart lyssna på dig musiken.

Now, never let it be said Money Box is not romantic on today of all days. So let me ask you, are you in love with someone you've never met and who asks you for money? Because if so, you're probably one of the thousands of people being robbed by romance thieves. For some it's just companionship they're looking for, but like many dates now they all start online, and their new friend sends pictures, writes maybe flirtatious emails.

But then they ask for money, small amounts at first, perhaps as a loan, but then they grow. thirty seven million pounds was stolen by romance thieves in the twelve months to last June. UK finance figures show that, and they also show the losses grew by more than a third in the first six months of last year, and the number of victims was up by almost a fifth.

Well the man we're calling Brian, who's a long term listener to Money Box, emailed us after losing tens of thousands of pounds to a romance thief. He told our reporter, Joe Krasner, it began on a dating site. It was just an exchange of emails, which I've done with other people that normally lead nowhere, but this particular one showed interest and it it sort of developed from there. She had some very nice photos of herself. And uh that's how it all started. She was stuck abroad

in America where she had been training as a nurse. This is the storyline. and then she just needed a bit of help to get back. And th the clever part was, which you realise now, she had some money, but she just needed a small amount to complete the purchase of an air ticket. And how much money was she looking for? Initially not very much, like fifty pounds or something, just to you know, because she had money from friends and she just needed a kind of topper.

And this is the smart thing about it, that it's just always small amounts which are below the radar. And how much money did you lose? In total, I'm trying to establish that it is around thirty thousand pounds. So far they've repatriated about fifteen thousand in total. And how long did this go on for? Well the whole thing. A couple of years, more than two years.

But the belief is that you're in some sort of relationship which will develop and the promises about money coming from a late father's estate where you will be repaid in full. What made you realise that this was a scam? The real trigger point was the BBC program. When I listened to the Roman scam He mentioned things that were red flags. He said you might get photos of someone having an accident.

Maybe a photo of them on a hospital bed, and that's what really triggered it. I thought, yes, that's right. I did get those kind of photos. How did that make you feel? Well you feel a bit stupid and silly, particularly with my kind of background. I just felt silly and stupid. 'Cause I could have been taken in because I'd had other things about investment scams which I'd spotted. And did you discuss this situation with anyone? No. I I just felt embarrassed about the whole thing, you know, um

And I think this is what happens to most people. They feel what is a private thing and they don't want to discuss it. So that works in the scammer's favour. Were you surprised that it was a scam? feelings that it could be a scam, but you always give the person the benefit of the doubt. Because they're very clever the way they express themselves.

You know, it won't be long and the money'll be coming and all that. I would not send money to anyone I would say to them I never send money to people I have not personally met. That would be the way I would deal with it now.

Well, thanks to Brian for telling us all that and listening to him is doctor Elizabeth Carter from Kingston University. She's a criminologist specializing in fraud and a regular member of the team on that Radio four program that helped Brian scam secrets. Elizabeth Carter listening to Brian, does it all sound horribly familiar to you?

It does, I'm afraid. And this is one of those really awful crimes that is not only financially devastating, but you can hear there with Brian's account, psychologically devastating too. What they do is they harness a friendship or or a romantic relationship and use that as the tool itself to then steal the money over a long period of time. So you don't really know that you're being groomed into it and by the time you realise you've been a victim y you may have sent thousands of pounds. And Brian

took a warning that he heard on scam secrets. What warnings would you give people? What are the things that indicate it's a fraud and you should stop then? Mm. Well, this is another thing about romance fraud is that these these criminals really hide very cleverly within this guise of the relationship. So the normal warning signs if someone's overly interested in you, financial matters and your past.

Those kind of things are warning signs, but they can be construed as interest a developing relationship. So I would say if there is a mention of money with any conversation that you've had with someone that you haven't met in person, that is a bit of a red flag. Also, listen to your instincts, to your gut. I do you feel like you might not want to tell your closest friends or family about the relationship?

If you have any kind of sinking feeling at all, that's exactly what you should do. You should start talking. Yes, of course,'cause Brian said he didn't talk to anyone because he was embarrassed, he felt stupid. But these thieves are professionals, aren't they? It's what they do all day. People shouldn't blame themselves.

No, uh it's i it's in uh an operation entirely constructed in order to steal your money. They put lots of I d I d dread to say effort, but it's these are s serious organized criminal networks and they are specifically designed to put you into a psychological state, grooming state to put you in a state where you feel like you're making good decisions and sending that money.

And quite often you feel like you want to send money. It's not someone saying, Give me your money or else. You know, this is part of uh what you feel is a loving friendship or relationship. Yes, and of course promises that it was a fraud. She had a a late father's estate who'd repay it in full, which he was waiting for.

And all that kind of thing. Even sending photos from hospitals of after an accident, apparently, we we hear. All that kind of thing i is very clever, but each one of those should be a red flag to you, shouldn't it? They should be, but what we're working against here is what's known as confirmation bias. So when you are convinced it's a relationship, which they spend a long time early on in that grooming, rapport-building stage to make you really sure it's a relationship.

the confirmation bias then starts working on your brain. So everything you see you can then account for. So okay, things do happen to people and you know the the um sense of risk is reduced if you're only adding a small amount of money comparatively to what they're putting in.

So the biggest red flags are dulled down and you can kind of account for them, which is why afterwards you then feel so silly. But there's no need to feel ashamed. What you should do is report it straight away to report fraud. Yes. And and Brian has got some of his money back via his bank, but UK finance figures again show nearly forty percent of the money stolen through romance frauds is not refunded. You you mentioned report fraud. What else should people do?

Uh you m you must contact your bank as well as soon as possible. The thing is with these types of frauds, they are becoming more and more sophisticated. So romance frauds are now starting to move into what we've got here, which is a romance investment hybrid. So some of your money might be stolen through crypto, which is Always a no no, yes. Now he says he only realised it what it was after listening to BBC Scams. Absolutely. And this is why we do it.

So, you know, I do all this research behind the scenes and then we package it up into, you know, public friendly information that people can use there and then. No one thinks they're going to be a victim of fraud, but if you have that information, you're armed with it, then you're ready to protect yourself. Elizabeth Carter from Kingston University thanks. You can find scam secrets on BBC Sounds, and if anyone asks you for money, if they haven't met them, assume it's a thief.

The Lifetime ICER is to be replaced with a new savings product just for first time buyers. At the moment, Lifetime Individual Sings Accounts, as they're called, are aimed mainly at people saving for their first home, but they can also keep the money and withdraw it at age sixty.

For every thousand pounds put into a lifetime ICE, up to an annual limit, the government tops it up by two hundred and fifty pounds, so free money if you stick to the rules. The new version will begin in twenty twenty eight, and our reporter Neve McDermott The future of lifetime ISIS has been in the spotlight for months, and it's something Money Box has been covering for years, from the withdrawal penalty to house price limits. I looked at how I can withdraw the money.

I learnt that not only would I lose the annual government bonus of a thousand pounds for every four thousand pounds I've put in, but that I would be charged a penalty on six point two five percent of my own savings, and I honestly felt sick. the whole intention of the lifetime I saw effectively useless in London unless

You're looking to either live right on the outskirts or looking for a very small one-bed flat. So what exactly is a lifetime ISA? Well it applies to under 40s and it's for first-time buyers or you can access it when you're over the age of 60. There's a catch. If you withdraw the money for anything else, you face a penalty charge, which can mean getting back less money than you actually put in, and you can't buy a house worth more than£450,000.

But now changes on the cards. Here's Polly Gilbert, Director at Tembo Money, a mortgage and savings platform helping first time buyers. We know that they want to remove the withdrawal penalty. So at the moment, if you withdraw funds from a lifetime ICE for any ineligible reason, you get hit with a six point two five percent

penalty on your own savings. That's gonna be removed. And we also know that they're changing the way the bonus is paid. So the bonus will be paid in a lump sum when the property is purchased. instead of uh being paid monthly as you make contributions.

Now in terms of the house price limits we mentioned, there's actually been no announcement on any changes. But what the Treasury did tell me is that it recognized that the lifetime ISA isn't working for everyone, particularly when people's circumstances change.

The government is currently consultant on the proposals. I asked Polly what she makes of them. It isn't universally good news. So moving that thousand pound bonus, the max thousand pound bonus, to be paid in a lump sum at the point you buy a home rather than on a monthly basis. means that savers won't benefit from the compounding impact of earning interest or investment gains on that bonus over time.

Now don't forget the current lifetime ISA can be used for retirement savings. Here's Zoe Alexandra from Pensions UK. So I think it's the right thing for the government to be simplifying the lifetime ISA to make it really clear that this is about house purchase only, but I think it's it's good that it's disaggregated essentially from pensions, which is a different product, which is all about retirement.

Now, if you are one of the one point three million people that currently has a lifetime ISA, you might be thinking, What does this mean for me? The short answer is nothing. The Treasury told me that you can continue to save in line with the current rules indefinitely. Need McDermott, and under those current rules, of course, indefinitely means until you reach the age of fifty.

If you live in England or Wales and get any low income means tested benefit like pension credit or universal credit, you should get a warm home discount this winter. It's one hundred and fifty pounds off one winter electricity bill. Energy suppliers have until the end of March to pay it, and some listeners have been asking why it takes so long. Here's Peter, who emailed us after the discount only appeared on his bill a few weeks ago.

In Northumberland we've had some extremely cold snow and extremely cold nights, and you've got a an old airy house to try and heat which mae'n rhaid i'n rhaid i'n rhaid i'n rhaid i'n rhaid i'n rhaid i'n rhaid i'n rhaid You think we uh why can't they say we'll pay everybody by Christmas? And if you haven't got it by Christmas, give us a ring on the th second of January when the offices are open.

Well Dan's back and how's this supposed to work, this scheme, Dan? Well this winter the government has extended the warm home discount scheme in England and Wales to everyone who gets any means tested benefit. So that's around six million households. Now those who do qualify should get the discount automatically in previous years some had to claim it. Now the list of qualifying benefits includes Universal Credit and Pension Credit, but

You had to be entitled to it on the 24th of August last year to qualify. The requirements in Scotland are slightly different, and most of those entitled do have to claim it, only some pensioners get it automatically. Everyone who is entitled

should have received a letter by last month. Well that's good news, Dan. But Peter's asking why he had to wait so long for it to come through with the temperature falling and his energy bill rising. Yeah no of course. Well the Department for Energy told us The suppliers have until the end of March because they might need customers to provide further information and of course that gives suppliers time to process the payments.

But it did say they're encouraged to provide the discount earlier in the winter if at all possible. And finally, what about people on prepayment meters? Well if they have a smart meter, the discount could be applied automatically. In other cases,

Customers should be sent a voucher that they must take to where they normally top up and the credit will be applied there. The government has also promised this scheme will continue in its current form until the winter of 2030-31 doesn't apply in Northern Ireland. Thanks, Nan. Well, let's hope this cold, wet spell ends soon.

Now if you or a relative is uh young and looking for work or in a first job, then on Wednesday the Money Box Live podcast is for you when we'll be discussing the finances of young workers. You can help set the Moneybox agenda by emailing us your money worries, thoughts, ideas to moneybox at pbc.co.uk or send a voice note or comment on WhatsApp. O double three O six seven eight three one eight three. We do read them all and you might get on the show as Peter, Kath and Sarah did.

Today the team was Dan Whitworth, Joe Krasner and Neve McDermott. Studio manager Kaylee Hillier. Our editor is Jess Quail. I'm Paul Lewis and this was a BBC News Money and Work production for BBC Sounds now. How did America get where it is today? Ever wondered why America acts the way it does on the world stage?

From Understand from BBC Radio 4 comes a new series exploring US foreign policy in five doctrines, where telling the story of five big ideas that changed everything, from the Munro Doctrine to Donald Trump. How did these doctrines shape the world we live in now, and what do they tell us about what's happening in America today? Listen on BBC Sounds.

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