Money Box Live: Side Hustles

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BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello. There's just a week to go until Christmas. And for anyone with a festive side hustle, the crafters, the bakers, the scented candle makers, this is very much their busy season. In fact, we're a nation of mini businesses with 43% of people saying they make money on the side. So in today's Moneybox Live podcast, we'll be meeting some of the side hustlers and answering their questions. And given the season, we've made it festive. There's even a panto.

Oh, no, there isn't. Oh, yes, there is. Oh, no, there isn't. Oh, yes, there is. Well, maybe at the end of the show, if you're very good boys, girls and tiddlywinks. Oh, dear. Yes, we will even hear how to... turn your alter ego into Christmas cash, as well as how easy it is to turn an extra gig into a main job and what kinds of things can go wrong. But let's start by speaking to someone with a very tasty side hustle. Laurie is a baker in Manchester. Laurie, hello.

Hi, hi. So you began this business in your kitchen, like a proper side hustle, and you decided to seriously upscale it this year. Tell me a bit more. I did, yeah. I'd been doing home banking in my home for about six, nearly seven years. And then I'm working for the NHS, a psychiatric unit. And I just decided earlier this year, yep, okay, I'm going to take the step. I'm going to...

try and put this business into physical form into a shop and yeah I took that step so it's quite scary but I'm doing it. So a really really demanding day job and then the demands of kind of building a business and taking on a shop I mean it now? Is this the balance that you want or do you want to grow your side hustle more?

Yeah, I definitely want the bakery to be the main source of my income. That won't be happening anytime soon because one thing that is wonderful about working for the NHS, it's consistent. I get a pension and it's good work. But until I get more consistency within this business...

you know, that's what I'll be doing. But yeah, this is definitely the ultimate goal to be open, you know, five days a week. I'm currently only open three days a week because I work two days at the hospital. So what is the consistency like? I mean, I suppose everybody loves cake.

So everybody does love cake. And I think my main income from the cakes is celebration cakes, wedding cakes and things like that. And then moving obviously into the physical space. I'm now doing more brownies and cookies and things like that. So I'm getting new.

fresh customers that didn't know me before walking through the door and then realizing, oh, she does Celebration Cake. So that's really been really interesting and really good. So the consistency is building. I'm getting a much bigger client base, more following online.

hoping in the new year after the January everyone's on a diet moment has passed, it will be definitely continue on the flow that I've been on, which has been really good. I've had a lot of support locally. I think people should just think of the bakers come January and maybe, maybe.

not make those resolutions life's too short what's been the biggest learning curve for you um i think the biggest learning curve has been time management really um because i have three children as well and it's just trying to balance that i've had a lot of support from friends and family um but yeah that and also getting just a little bit more confident with retaining my receipts and keeping everything financially on track, basically, keeping an eye on that. Do you have a question for our panel?

I think the main question is, and it's quite a broad question, but what would be the most common pitfall you would say that I need to look out for financially, particularly in this first year? A very, very good question. Laurie, thank you so much for starting us off. Very best of luck with Bibble Bakes Bakery. Thank you. I won't say that very fast. Listening to Laurie, joining me throughout the programme today are our side hustle experts. I'm joined by Helen Thornley.

of the Association of Tax Technicians, and Vicks Rodwell of Ipsy, the Self-Employed Association. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Thank you both for being with us. Vix, we'll come to Laurie's question, but what counts first as a side hustle? Because the comparison site finder says 43% of Brits made money from one this year. Ipsy says there are 460,000 side hustle businesses. So what's your criteria? What qualifies?

Yeah, for us, we identify somebody as a side hustle as having a primary income source, but then has a secondary self-employed income on the side. And you also say that side hustles are up 20% this year compared to last year. What's going on there?

We think it's kind of a mixture. So some of it will definitely be cost of living, people trying to diversify their income and make sure they can pay all their bills. But I think as well, with all the technology and the new platforms coming out, there's loads of opportunities to earn a passive income.

in the background or try new ideas that potentially could lead to a business down the line. Well, Finder says the top three side hustles are selling old clothes online, taking on a part-time second job and becoming a social media influencer.

So very, very different kinds of gigs. Helen, at what point do you need to tell the tax office what you're up to? So it depends. how much you're doing. So if you're just doing something quite small on the side and your turnover in the tax year is less than a thousand pounds, then actually you don't need to tell the revenue anything.

But once in a given tax year over that £1,000 worth of turnover as sales, then you need to tell the taxman and you need to get registered with HMRC by the 6th of October following the end of the tax year. So for the current one that we're in now, the tax... year ends on the 5th of April 25 and you've got until the 6th of October 25 to tell HMRC that you're now self-employed with a little side.

business okay now let's go back to laurie's question then she's in the process of turning that side hustle she hopes into her main job she really wants to get it right what are the common pitfalls especially in that first year

Well, I think she's already on to one of them. The key thing is making sure you keep really good records and keep receipts. And I know she mentioned that. So if you can keep track of all of your income and expenditure, maybe get a spreadsheet or some sort of simple software, that'll be really good. helpful and i often think that having a separate bank account for something like this particularly she's intending to grow it allows you to ring fence things um and i think those are those are kind of

some of the key things that you need to kind of focus on. And then it's also just making sure that you set aside enough money for tax so that when you come to pay the tax at the end of the year, that you've got some money on one side to pay that. Yeah, it should be helping you with the bills.

landing you with one that you weren't prepared for. Helen, you actually, you know all about this. You have your own side hustle in pottery. Now, you're an expert in tax. Is there any part of having a side hustle that you find challenging? yeah i so i have i do my little pottery business one or two days a week and

I know what all the rules are, but it's really time consuming keeping all the records and keeping track because you get income from lots of different sources, from galleries, from sales online. And just keeping track of all that can be quite hard. So I think the key thing for me this year has been.

I've set up a separate bank account. I can ring, fence it all. And then I've got a spreadsheet of everything. So it's just writing everything down, keeping a record of it, and then you can keep on top of it. But it does take longer than you think. And don't assume you'll remember things a few weeks later, necessarily.

Well, let's go back to that question of why more people are side hustling. I was thinking about that one while I was out Christmas shopping. And I went to the D&D Artisan Market at Chapelford in Warrington. I asked the traders there if their merchandise is their side hustle. and what tips they offer budding entrepreneurs. Selling personalised gifts, Christmas pyjamas, jumpers, lots of goodies. I can see a Santa tracker.

Yes. It's something that you can pop onto your Christmas tree, scan it with your phone, and it kind of tells you where Santa's up to, whereabouts he is. Is this your main job or a side hustle? It's not my main job. I am actually a full-time midwife for the NHS. I kind of think of it more now as a bit like therapy. It's something that I love doing, very creative. Apart from the therapy, are you doing it to make some extra cash or something else? Yeah, absolutely, to make a bit of extra cash.

do you have for people about kind of managing the finances? Yeah, do your research, definitely register, get all of the, you know, all the official stuff. You can very quickly kind of get lost with it all and give it a go. So at the moment we've got gins, vodkas, gin liqueurs and vodka liqueurs. We're a small local business. So is this your side hustle or your main job? This is my side hustle. Both myself and my partner both have different...

Jobs. I'm a catering supervisor and he works in contracts. At the minute we're trying to see if we can make it our main jobs. Is it hard kind of managing the financial side of your side hustle? It is, but that's sort of smashed out the part by my partner, so he normally does all that. It's not easy, it's juggling obviously with the licences, with the alcohol duty, the HMRC, the tax, working full time. We do primarily dog blankets, all handmade.

and handmade dog toys. This is my side hustle. It takes a long time to start making your money back. You've got to invest in things like all your stock up front. Eventually it might turn, that we might turn a profit eventually, but it's not about that for me. It's about the joy I get out of making these things and the people that I get involved with.

And yes, if you're wondering, it's dog blankets and flavoured vodka for my family this year. Helen, we heard there about making sure you register a business. What are the different options for people?

Well, you can set up in kind of three different ways. So you can set up as a sole trader. That's just you. That's the simplest approach. If you're working with someone else, you can set up as a partnership, although it's worth then having an agreement as to how you're going to run things and how you're going to split profits.

And then the really kind of more complicated, if you're really going to go for it, is you can also set up as a company. But if you're going to do that, then I'd recommend taking a bit of advice because there are lots of longer term consequences to setting up as a company that you need to think about. of things i mean if you take the plunge and you go all in as a business does that increase the personal risk

Yes, it does. So as a sole trader or partnership, you've not got any protection or the liabilities of the business or your personal liabilities. So you can take out some sort of indemnities insurance, but the company allows you to ring fence a little bit better.

what's called limited liability, and the liabilities and the risks sit within the company. So that gives you some protection, but you've got all the costs of running a company, the accounts are a little bit more formal, and it's a little bit more public in terms of you've got to publish information.

informational company's house. So a lot more to think about. Vix, what about the startup costs for stock or perhaps a market pitch like the people I was talking to there? You might need to invest up front. You might. And it's definitely about having a think of that and what kind of...

risks and appetite you've got for spending money you might not necessarily have. I mean, you can obviously go out and, you know, ask friends and family for some money to help you get you started. Or, you know, there are platforms out there like Kickstarter that you can list yourself and people.

will invest a little bit of money towards helping you get going. And selling to the public is quite hard, isn't it, Vix? One woman I spoke to at the market said she put a huge amount of labour into the cards that she was then selling for just a couple of quid. How do you get your prices right as a new business?

It's a little bit of trial and error. I mean, definitely do your market research and have a look what similar products are priced at. And then ultimately, you probably want to do a small profit and loss and try and work out what's your price point to make sure that you are kind of covering your costs. and what your minimum amount you need to sell to make it worthwhile.

Helen, let's talk a bit more about tax because there is actually an HMRC app, isn't there, which might help with managing taxes when you're rushing between your day job and your side hustle. And the tax office revealed today that 2 million new people downloaded that app this year.

Yes, it's great. It's something they've been working on to try and get more information. So you can do basic tasks on the app on your phone any time of day rather than queuing to speak to them on the phone. So it's things like if you don't know your national insurance number, you can look that up on the app. You can apply for child benefit. You can manage your tax credits through it. You can even check on your state pension forecast and see how many more years you need to contribute to get that.

Thank you. OK, we've had a message from somebody with lots of pictures as well saying, I've just taken the massive step of making my pet food business into my main job. It was previously my side hustle. We make cakes out of meat for cats and dogs. I need to make a decision. about whether or not I continue to do this or what my alternatives are. Well, keep listening. Maybe we'll give you some inspiration. Let's stick with the festive side jobs and hear from Angie.

My side hustle is making quilted Christmas stockings. I turned it a while ago into a brand and the brand I have is craft making ideas. It all stemmed from my mum making my first one for me when I was in my... I think I was probably very early teens. She taught me how to make them. Sadly, my mum passed away in 2003. She was an amazing quilter. We used to go do craft fairs together with me.

selling my Christmas stockings and her selling sort of waistcoats and things that were all their age back in what must have been the 80s. A time of quilted waistcoats. I love it. Tell me then, this is very, very festive, very much this time of the year. make them all year round when do you start to a degree yes because i because i run um a digital marketing business on alongside which is basically how i've been getting my

craft making ideas website up and running. I feel I have to make the stock up in advance. So my main production, I would say, starts around June, July. How's your side hustle doing this year? How much do you think you've made?

I'm having my best year, to be honest. My turnover, it's still small and compared to a lot of businesses. So my turnover this year will probably just be around four and a half, five thousand pounds, of which obviously there is an element of profit. But I haven't calculated that yet. And it will certainly. contribute towards having a nice Christmas. Good time of year to make some extra cash. You're looking to expand from crafting. My father sadly passed away last year.

And I turned to my craft for the comfort of it. And it just put me back in touch with my mum and my dad. So I just decided, look, I've got a passion for this. I'd rather be doing that than maybe my... self-employed business. So I ran my first stocking workshop a couple of weekends ago where I showed two people how to make them and they both left with a finished Christmas stocking.

I'm thinking about creating an online course so that people could also make them. You're going to end up being busier than Santa. The thing is, is that I can only expand it so far if I'm just going to make, because I only have so much time to make. You're actually a self-employed family, aren't you? Tell me about that. So not the great timing. Just before lockdown, my husband went full time as a badminton coach.

So that's what he does every day and thoroughly enjoys it. So now I'm looking to turn that in on the craft making ideas side and build that. So self-employed for a long time, business consultancy, running your own side hustle. must be an absolute tax return expert. Is there anything, though, kind of to do with the finances that you want to ask our experts about or that you find daunting? So for me, I have always kept my craft business separate to our...

main limited company which sort of covers everything else. From a tax point of view we're currently juggling and deciding how do we actually report all this. I've currently been reporting mine on a self-assessment. aspect we've been considering do we now bring it all under the umbrella of a limited company

Lots to think about from that chat with Angie. I thought her side hustle as well is really about connecting with those family memories. It's not just about making extra cash. And it reminded me of that person at the market saying their side hustle is therapy. Helen, OK, the question at the end.

Lots of people have a so-called portfolio career now, lots of jobs or gigs or side hustles or mini businesses. What are the pros and cons of bringing those under one business umbrella? Yeah, there's quite a few things to consider here. So if you're sort of... forming a company it can make you look more professional it's bringing you that limited liability

can sometimes be more tax efficient, but not necessarily. It depends on the level of profits, how much income you're taking out. So you'd have to look at that on an individual basis. But companies are more costly to run. And also with quite diverse businesses like that,

Depends on the level of turnover, there might come a point where you'd need to think about that and you wouldn't necessarily want to put all of those into one company. So it's really complicated, that sort of decision. It's one of the times where actually it might be more cost effective to take some advice. up front.

to save you costs of getting it wrong in the longer term. Okay, thank you. Vix, Fiona has been in touch to say, can you please, lots of ease in that please, stop calling it a side hustle. They are second jobs. I would suggest that perhaps a side hustle is slightly different to a second job. What's your take?

Yeah, I mean, we see a side hustle as a great opportunity to kind of test out an idea or pursue a passion project or just sort of work through an idea that you've had. And it could potentially lead to something. It might not. Whereas a second job is, you know. taken specific employment with an employer whereas your side hustle you're doing it for yourself really.

Thanks. And Angie there highlighted she can only expand so much when it's only her. She can only make so much stuff. She's looking for other ways to grow the business. Do you think most side hustles have a kind of natural limit? Yeah, I do. Because, you know, it's meant to be a sort of secondary income. And I think if all of a sudden that becomes to be your primary income, then by nature, it probably isn't a side hustle anymore. And it's a viable business. Okay, which is a good point to be at.

might put our old clothes, maybe even our unwanted gifts, online to turn them into cash. I've been chatting to Callum, who is buying in clothes and then reselling them, with a bit of help from his dad, Tim. So yeah, I started on about 16.

online selling platform became quite prominent and always been quite into clothing so i just saw the stuff that i was buying and it was selling quite well i reached out to a friend who i knew was a wholesaler and i bought a few things from him sold it while i was at university i think i've got 4000 sales now

I still get a buzz every time I get a sale. So it's become another four-time job now. And then my dad will sort of send out the orders. Yeah, this is a good point, isn't it? You've roped your dad in. He's like your Christmas elf. Yeah, so when I took over, I was packaging...

parcels and they'd be probably about two or three a day maybe five a day sometimes over the weekend to be a little bit more we've now got to a size where we've got 10 or 15 orders going out a day especially over the weekends and certainly at payday tends to be a big spike the boys done good yeah it's been crazy like the november period i was turning about two and a half grand a week some weeks three thousand so yeah some really really good figures there

Do you think your family are extra careful about giving you presents this time of year in case they spot it popping up on one of your selling pages? That's always a risk. That's always a risk. Truthfully now, have you ever resold any presents you were given? Not for my parents, but for my girlfriend, yeah.

I think it was like a really bad sweater vest. A lovely sweater that just wasn't quite right for you. It wasn't bad. It's in fashion, but not really my sort of clothing, so I didn't wear it, unfortunately. Nice save, Callum. Do either of you have any questions for our experts? Yes, my main question would be what are the pros and cons of being self-employed and how you battle the cons.

Well, look, if Callum's girlfriend is listening, then I am very, very sorry. It's interesting, though, isn't it? He's making enough money from his side hustle for this to be a full-time role, but he's not sure if staying self-employed is right for him. What are the pros and cons? No, God.

Quite a lot, to be fair. I mean, flexibility is one of the biggest one that people say about self-employment, that you're not sort of tethered to an employer and you can kind of pivot your business or expand it in different ways depending on, you know, how the market changes. And it sounds like he's got a great sort of business. to do that really, which is a great pro. But yeah, of course, you've got to sort out your own pension. You've got to manage a lot of other parts of it.

Definitely. We always advocate that you try and siphon some money off for a pension because you should be looking at that longer term landscape and how you're going to look after yourself in retirement.

Helen, lots of people do sell on clothing or other things using these online selling websites. And HMRC has actually issued some guidance, hasn't it, on exactly who has to pay tax on their online sales. There is undeniably a bit of a confusion. confusion around this. What are the rules?

Yeah, so the rules are, if you're selling things online and you've got an intention to trade, and so you're buying goods in or you're making goods with an intention to trade and make a profit, then HMRC are likely to want to know about you. And they're certainly going to want to know about you once your sales...

over that magic £1,000 trading allowance for the year. If you're just selling personal goods, then HMRC doesn't... isn't interested if you're clearing your garage out you're selling and want a gift that's fine there's a personal transactions HMRC is only going to worry about those if they get to be very expensive so if you're buying and selling items personal items of more than six thousand pounds so maybe some

art or collectibles or jewellery, then you might have some capital gains tax to pay and then HMRC might want to know about it. But something like a Christmas jumper, unless it's incredibly high-end, is unlikely to give them any problems. firm HMRC told us people don't need to make a declaration to us simply because they're selling an unwanted gift and they say we encourage online sellers to read our guidance on gov.uk so there you go people can sell on their gifts

a relaxed mind. Okay, what about if you're the side hustle this Christmas? Let's meet Naomi Paxton, who is also known as her side hustle persona, Ada Camp. Naomi, hello. Hello. Hello. Thank you very much for joining us. Now, you live two very different lives, don't you? First of all, tell me about the day job.

So yes, in my day job, I'm an academic. I'm a theatre historian. Yeah, I research the contribution of theatre professionals to the Votes for Women movement. But I came into that from being an actress. But yes, academic and sort of writer is my main. So very academic, very serious, but right now you're doing something quite different. Stay as Naomi and tell me about that. Okay.

So right now I'm performing in Panto. So I have an alter ego cabaret act called Ada Camp, and she is playing Granny in the RVT Panto, Wolft, at the moment. So I've done that for the past three years. Ada's played Panto, and it's really, really fun.

So you play Ada, Ada plays Granny. How important is having this sideline in terms of your income? It's increasingly been more important. When I first started, it was just very much a sort of little thing. I didn't know quite what it was and I was scared to... really put lots of energy into it but actually it's become something that I really enjoy and

The more confident I've got, the more I've been able to embrace it and the more money I've been able to make, the more professional I've been able to be. And when you talk about being more professional, I mean, does that include in how you sort of manage the money and manage the backstage elements of running this sideline? Yeah, I think so. I mean, I do through self-assessment. I am a sole trader at the moment. I haven't set ADA off as a company or anything, although that may be in the future.

been testing her out and I think the lockdown years obviously that really shut down the theatre industry so that was I was very glad that I had an academic job during that time but yes I'm sort of I'm keen to really to make her more much more a financial part of my income if I can. Yeah. Okay, Naomi, this is either going to go very well or very badly. Can I meet Ada? Yes, I shall fetch her for you.

Ada, hello. Thank you for coming on the show. Thank you for having me. Introduce yourself. Tell me a bit about what it is that you do. Hello, my name is Ada. I'm a variety performer, a cabaret performer and a magician. And I'm currently in panto. Oh, no, I'm not. Oh, yes. Yes, you are. Yes, you're right. Yes, I am. Yes, yes. You kind of, you have a number of side hustles yourself. doing lots of different bits.

Well, bits and bobs, yes. I've never been described as the name is bit on the side before, but I'm thrilled about it, to be honest with you. Yeah, no, no. Well, you know, one's got a hustle in the theatre. One has to keep one's hand in. So, yes, I do a bit of music. I do a bit of magic. And I try and perform. for audiences of all ages because one has to work, you know. One has to work. And December is extra busy for you. Always, yeah. I love panto. Christmas shows are always very jolly. Yeah.

Ada, I've seen video of you, pictures of you. I can tell it's not cheap being you. Magic tricks cost a lot, but so do sequins, fake eyelashes, the stuff that's just sort of falling off you.

I know, it all looks effortless, but no, it's huge suitcases. Cabaret acts and magicians are notorious for having enormous suitcases and carrying them upstairs in venues. No, it is, you know, it's expensive, but I suppose that's the whole part of it, really. That's what the audience wants to see. So you're meeting it. expectations so hopefully you're covering your costs well that's the idea you know i want to keep myself in false eyelashes and i can't it might be time to give up

This was very surreal. Ada, thank you so much for joining us. Goodbye. Pleasure, darling. Pleasure. Have a lovely festive time. Thank you very much. And you. And Naomi, thank you. And goodbye.

Oh, no, thank you. Bye-bye. Bye. It's quite hard to top that. Let's go back to our experts and try. Vix, if anyone's listening, listening to Ada, listening to everything else, and they're planning to maybe... start or upscale their side hustle in 2025? What would be your top tip? For me, definitely don't wait for it to be perfect. You know, the nature of a side hustle is it should be flexible. So just give it a go and you can always work it out as you're going along.

Helen, as a side hustler, as a tax specialist, this is a good time, isn't it, to point out there's not much longer to file your tax return. No, around 12 million people have a tax return to file. So if you've still not done yours for the 23-24 tax return, you've got 44 days left until the 31st of January to get it in. And if we had about 30 seconds and you had to give someone a top tip for their tax return, what do they need to gather together to just get it done in one go?

If you're worried about paying, still get your tax return in because once you've got your tax return in, you can apply for a time to pay arrangement and HMLC will help you stagger the payments. But you can't do that until you've got it in. So don't let the fear of paying put you off filing.

It's very, very good advice. I love that everybody else is thinking about Christmas, thinking about Christmas shopping, Christmas dinner. Here at the Moneybox Live podcast, we're worrying about whether you filled out your tax return. Thank you to everybody who took a moment out of their multiple jobs to speak.

to us or send a message. Thank you to Ada. I'm going to be a while recovering from that, I think. And thank you to our experts. We've been hearing from Helen Thornley of the Association of Tax Technicians and Vicks Rodwell of the Association of Independent Professionals and the Self-Employed Ipsy.

Paul Lewis will put on his Christmas jumper for the next Moneybox podcast. He's going to look at what support energy suppliers are offering for anyone who's struggling with their heating costs. And he'll also look back at some of the programme's wins from the last year. If there's a story... that you would like us to take a look at in 2025, please do get in touch. You can email moneybox at bbc.co.uk or you can send a voice note or comment to Moneybox on WhatsApp. The number is 033-06-783-1800.

83. In this podcast, the producers were Sarah Rogers and Neil Morrow. The production coordinator was Emma Smith. The studio manager, Chloe Wilson. Our editor is Jess Quayle. I'm Felicity Hanna and this was a BBC News Money and Work production for BBC Sounds. I'm Nicola Coughlin, and for BBC Radio 4, this is history's youngest heroes. Rebellion, risk, and the radical power of youth. She thought, right, I'll just do it. She thought about others rather than herself.

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