Arielle Duhaime-Ross

a potential job. That must be a job. I think I have, like vaguely some uncle who was a cheese taster for like cheese contests. Yeah, you see that sounds like a gig to me, right. Yeah, Hello, I'm mini driver and welcome to many questions. I've always loved prus questionnaire. It was originally an eighteenth century parlor game meant to reveal an individual's true nature. But with so many questions

there wasn't really an opportunity to expand on anything. So I took the format of Pruce's questionnaire and adapt it. What I think are seven of the most important questions you could ever ask someone. They are when and where were you happiest? What is the quality you like least about yourself. What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love for you? What question would you most like answered, What person, place, or experience has shaped you the most? What would be

your last meal? And can you tell me something in your life that has grown out of a personal disaster. The more people we ask, the more we begin to see what makes us similar and what makes us individual. I've gathered a group of really remarkable people who I am honored and humbled to have had a chance to engage with. My guest today is Ariel do em Ross. She was the first climate change correspondent in American nightly News and has written for Scientific American Nature, Medicine, and

The Atlantic. She had a brilliant podcast that I loved called Reset, which was about how technology was changing everything, and today she is the host of the Vice News Reports podcast. She has a degree in zoology and also one in classical guitar. She's a passionate advocate for the environment and also a gifted artist. All to say, just my kind of polymath. Where and when were you happiest? I was thinking about this question and I really like it.

I really like the whole format of your podcast. If I you know, if I can say that I think it's replicable in a way that also just everybody's gonna have a different answer, and it's just innately interesting. But yeah, I've been thinking about this a lot, and I think for me, where I landed was that when I feel happiest is when I feel at peace, and so it's not these big important moments that feel really monumental in

my life. The thing that came to mind for me was this one time I was report warding for Vice News Tonight on HBO, but I was the climate change correspondent for for three years. I was on a reporting trip. We were in Greenland, in the middle of nowhere, and I was running on this dirt road and I I'm not really a runner, I'm no longer a runner. My knees don't like it. But I remember really feeling at peace there in that moment, and I think it's because

it was just part of my routine. It was the thing that no matter where I was in the world, I would run in the morning and it was an anchor. And I'm happiest when I am able to routinely have a loane time. Does that alone time? Does that create connection? Because if you're doing something repeatedly in all these different places.

What would the connection be too, if that's what you're recreating. Yeah, it's a good question, I think for me with running, and there are other forms of me being alone, I like drawing a lot, so I will go to a place and draw my environment. I think it is about connecting with the environment that I'm in, and also it is about recharging so that I can connect more deeply with the people around me afterwards. So it's both. It's about being present for everything else after I've completed the run,

you know, after I've completed the drawing. And I suppose peace is connection, like pieces pieces, connection to all of the stuff that isn't the noise. And I mean that both positively and negatively of our daily lives. So that's quite an interesting correlation. And I also like the idea of doing something that you do everywhere in all those places, and that that is that is the thing that brings you back to you. Yeah. Absolutely, I think it's just

I really am serious about routine. I think that, you know, I thrive when much like children do, right, I thrive with routine. And some people are are better able to just adapt to whatever is happening in their lives. But I need to have something that makes me feel like, Okay, this is this moment in the day that I am doing this one thing that I do almost every day. And you know, with the pandemic, it's been a little bit more of a struggle for me to find that.

But you know, I think I'm working it out very good. What do you do? If you don't mind my asking it? Did drawing replace running? When I was a child, I was not super accepted in elementary school. I was different, right. I was one of the few kids of color in my school. I'm black. I was like, you know, tomboys, dyke, and I was bookish and also a jock, like a very weird combination of things. But I was different. I was very very different, and I felt like I didn't

have close friendships, how somewhat bullied. I hesitate to use that word because I think it's complicated, but I was often alone as a child. I didn't have like any neighborhood kids like it was just adults living or on my street like it just I didn't have that. But what came out of that kind of solitary childhood was my art was was drawing, and for me, drawing was this just amazing thing that I was able to do all the time. Constantly, I would be in the basement

just like working on a project. That I always had an art project going, and I kept it up for a while, even through my Masters. I remember handing in once like a comic book page as one of my papers because that was loud. And then I stopped completely and then the pandemic hit. And I think that's the reason why it's top of mind for me is because I reverted back to drawing and now I make artwork for Vice News reports for the podcast. It brings me so much joy and it takes so much time. It's

an absurd thing to do for a podcast host. Like I can't believe my boss and like not only lets me do it, but asked me to do it. I think that's great. I think that's great. Why did you stop doing it? You know? There are a few things like that in my life. So I have a a weird background. After high school, I studied classical guitar and then when to study zoology for my bachelor's and then did science writing science reporting, and I stopped playing guitar too,

and I don't know. I think it's it's a feeling of like, if you can't be the best, then why do it at all? But for whatever reason, during the pandemic, all of that went away. I didn't care anymore. I don't care that my drawings aren't perfect. I know they're not, but I get so much a piece out of it, so much comfort out of it, and I learned new things all the time. It's just this wonderful thing that I I'm not even sad I stopped, Like there's no regret.

It's just like it feels like I'm starting on you and I just get to move forward and get back into it. With guitar, I'm not there yet, but withdrawing, I am. And that is truly, truly a one amazing thing in my life right now. What a gift, What a lovely gift, and a gift that you can put down and pick up when you're ready. Okay, So what question would she most like answered? So? I'm a huge

fan of Octavia Butler, of her science fiction writing. I think she was brilliant, truly, and in one particular series of her books. In the series, it has to do with aliens, and it's beautiful. It's really really beautiful. I don't I don't typically go for alien stories, but this one is top notch. And in it she writes that the downfall of the human species is that we are extremely intelligent and hierarchical. And I would love to know, not necessarily how to alter that, but how to harness

it for good. Like I guess, the question is, how do you convince the species, the human species, to fight back against our hierarchical nature, to take stock of this characteristic and to open our eyes to its negative aspects? Right?

How do you do that? M God? I mean, I really I feel you, But I really think if you unpick that sweater, because it speaks to the fundament of Darwinism, you know, a survival of the fittest, which is the ultimate hierarchy, And if you start dismantling that, then perhaps maybe we would just be happier as single cell ambers

in the primordial sludge. I mean maybe, I don't know if you necessarily dismantle it, because I do think the beautiful things come out of further competitive nature, you know, and I certainly don't think that you know, Communism when actually put in practice, you know, often has people who take advantage of the system. What I think would be wonderful would be to just have people realize that this has an impact, that this is probably the thing fundamentally

that has led to climate change. You know. It a thing that leads to wars that make no sense. It is a thing that prevent in us from connecting truly with each other and with people who are different from us. Do you believe the hierarchy is that the fundament of those things. I think it's the combination of us being incredibly smart and hierarchy. Yeah, so the misuse of hierarchy. So how could we better use hierarchy? That's really interesting, Yeah, yeah,

and just a more collaborative world. How could we make a more collaborative world? You know, I covered climate change for three years. It was hard, for sure, it was hard. It just felt like people weren't listening to each other

a lot because fear and protectionism. Those have been the ironically, the unifying characteristic of the world is protectionist And we're going to do it this way, and we will share information, but up to a point, and we might also not share all of the information, and fear is at the root of that. Yeah, fear is at the root of that fear, and wanting to protect your family, wanting to put them above everybody else, which is a perfectly understandable

feeling to have. The it is rooted in fear, and oftentimes that turns into fear of others and a refusal to listen, a refusal to open your heart, open your mind. I think Octavia Butler had it right. I really do. Yeah, I've got to go back and read some more because I think you're right. I mean it's funny. I mean we're you know, we're all looking at hierarchical structures and the way that they create systems right now and hoping

to dismantle some of those. But as with every revolution, it feels like we're having a blanket responds to something that is so incredibly nuanced, and us reaching for and working for to find the nuance is also really important, and it's tough because this all comes back to the fact that we different communities have different values and we don't have um universal list of priorities right Like, I don't know how to get to that, but I think, just how do we make this world more collaborative. I

think it's a really great question. I think it's a really great question to have answered. How do we make this world more collaborative? I love that? So what quality do you like least by yourself? I grew up in a family that prizes rationality, integrity, moral behaviors, I think, above everything else, and that comes with a ton of benefits, right, Like, that's that's generally a good environment to grow up in.

But I think for me, the way that I internalized some of that information and some of that prioritizing is that I know, I think I internalized it in sort of a maladaptive way. Over time, I am very good at rationalizing my feelings into oblivion mm hmm, meaning that if if I'm upset by something that somebody said or something going on in my life, I will make backflips really to try and either explain to myself why, you know, why there's a there's probably a good reason for why

they said what they said. Why you know, I'm just not understanding the context. Uh, And really, like in the grand scheme of things, my problems are rather small, you know, rationally, like this is a very small thing. So I just I invalidate my own feelings routinely, and you know it might be something perfectly valid, but I'll just tell myself all the reasons why I shouldn't be concerned with it,

and I can. Yeah, I just convince myself that my feelings are invalid, and I really dislike that about myself. Do you try to change it? Do you take steps to change that sort of as it's happening, or do you sit around and think of other approaches? Well, I'm noticing it more now and honestly, like, do I try to change it? Yes, in the sense that I'm in therapy. I love my therapist. She's wonderful. Um, I do this really cool form of therapy that I enjoy quite a

bit and that has just really changed my life. Wow. What is it. It's called i f S. It stands for internal family systems, So I guess a less well known therapy modality, but the way that it works, and god, anybody who knows if S will probably like, I think that I'm explaining this poorly, so I you know, I apologize in advance. But basically, it's like when you say, oh, a part of me feels like this, or a part of me feels like that. Those parts are the family

system that you're tackling. So you will externalize those parts and you will talk to those parts of yourself and try to find out more and learn more about like why does that part feel that way? What you know? And and the part that rationalizes that's a part for me. That's one of those things that I tackle in therapy. That's interesting and it's really useful because you build empathy

for those parts that you dislike about yourself. So I say, like, I really dislike that part of myself, but also I'm trying to understand it also, I'm trying to feel for it. I want to help it. The goal is for me to dislike it less and to understand that it's probably protecting me in some way. Mm hmmm. It's changing a processing system though, isn't it, or maybe unfolding it into a slightly less rational hug. Yeah, and I think it's

just you know, over time, hopefully. I think the goal is that I stop invalidating when I'm bothered by something and start letting myself feel it. God. Yeah, wow, I could really stand to feel a little less. I mean, what do you mean by that? It's like, Christ, do I have to have twenty different feelings? About this because you know, and all of them feeling sometimes overwhelming and volcanic. I would love a bit more rationality. Oh that's interesting.

I feel like it would calm the waters because my boyfriend is very it's very rational, but has extraordinary compassion, so he can sort of explain it to me at me feeling patronized or unheard, which I think is of incredibly special quality. But we were talking the other day about your knee joke. Reaction to a situation is your past, and your response to it is your present. So you

are always in charge of your response. But that initial kick of what we do and how we are, which we so often react to and carry on reacting to. I thought that was interesting to look at it as a kind of past system. That felt quite empowering, that resonates. I think the thing that comes to mind hearing that is I agree that your initial reaction is your past.

I don't know if you can always control your reaction in the present if your past is so unaddressed that it takes over right, And I think that's what being

triggered is. But what about that space? So what if it were about actually identifying and acknowledging that there is a space that one's initial reaction is this thing, systemic thing in one and then going, if I give this thirty seconds recognizing what it is, that perhaps the response would be different, and perhaps who I am now if I gave them credence and empowered them, would actually have a different response, and therefore I could sort of be

slightly more in charge of my evolution. I mean, it seems like you're primed for I F S. I don't know if you've you know, that's That's exactly what it is, right. It's creating distance between these reactions and then being able to address them and change those patterns over time. It's funny because it's how a lot of my friends who

take medication for anxiety and depression. It's often how they've explained it is that it gives you this moment to not dissolve, disintegrate and free fall into the reaction, but rather to negotiate and marshal a different response. That's interesting. That's interesting. I A not that I'm equating the two, but I recently put my dog on zach because nightly fireworks for a while before the fourth of July were really really specifically in my area. Of Brooklyn were really

really terrible. I mean it felt like there was a boom every five seconds, and my dog got really really upset. And she wasn't previously scared of fireworks. Last summer she was fine, but then we moved and there were more fireworks, and it's been pretty terrible. So for like two months, she would hide in the bathroom every night and just cower and refused to go outside, you know, to to do her thing before bedtime, like just completely unable to

snap out of it. And it didn't matter if we gave her a piece of hot dog or a piece of cheese or any healthier dog treat alternative like it just she couldn't snap out of it. And the prozac is just doing wonders. She is happy again. She is not scared at night. She and when she does get scared, if there is a big boom, she covers so much faster. It's amazing. She's a like eight pound Chihuahua and I love her deeply. Um and I'm just I'm just relieved.

I'm so happy to hear that my friend's dog, Pete was very very unhappy and he went on prozac, and I feel like he found himself again. Yeah, I'm glad there's lots of therapy going on in your household about the fire ones. What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love for you? When I think about love, I feel like my instinct is to think about my grandmother and to think about the way that she interacted with us when she was alive, and she just had this infinite patience

and infinite curiosity about her life lives. It just feels really pure. And also because it is a childlike love, it feels two dimensional to me. What does that mean? I mean, what does that mean in terms of processing that it feels two dimensional? Toy? Well, it feels like we never went through any of the heart stuff together.

I see. It was amazing, It was perfect, and it was very one sided, probably right, Like I mean, I loved her deeply, but I didn't prod her life and her inner feelings the way I would as an adult, and so I feel like I missed out on that opportunity a little bit to reciprocate in a way that feels meaningful. She knew that I loved her, I was

obsessed with her, But it feels very childlike. But perhaps that was exactly what she wanted, and perhaps she had all the more complicated prodding from all the other people in her life, probably, but with you, it was pure and it was uncomplicated, just unconditional love. Yeah, I mean, and there's definitely something to be said for that. But for me, when I think about what defines love, then I think, you know, the tendency is for people to look around and to point at something and say that's

that's what I want. And when I do that, what I land on is my current relationship with my wife. That's what I want and I and I have it. I'm very fortunate in that way. I am deeply, deeply in love with her and I am loved well by her, And I mean to me that there's everything about our relationship which is not perfect, but is the closest thing

I've ever experienced to that. How do you think that that sort of feeling of completion with yourself when you're with somebody else and with them, how does one keep evolving when you feel like something has completed? Well, I think that's that's the that's the whole thing you like exactly hit it, you know. It's the love that we have is a love where it is freeing you are to be yourself and to be yourself fully in every

iteration of yourself throughout time. And so I know that Meredith, I love the person I was five years ago deeply, she loves the person that I am today, and in all likelihood, because we have this foundation of allowing for change, she will love the person that I am in ten years.

And that's certainty. That belief that she believes that I am beautiful, both both inside and out, and also that that beauty means that I am not perfect, means that I will change, means that I will be a different person. It just you grow in a relationship that is healthy. You grow with your partner, and we have grown a lot over the last seven years. That's so nice to hear. It's so lovely, and you're right, growth is growing together

is it is definitely the coolness stone. If there is a special source to a a relationship that has longevity, I would say that it is that it is mutual growth and respect for each other's growth. Yeah. Absolutely, And I think it's just being free to be the ugly parts of yourself as well, right, and to tackle those to not hide them away from your partner. And from the world to be told that it is okay, and she's she's really the first person in my life that

truly made me feel beautiful. And I think that that is really, really meaningful. I mean, she's amazing, She's she's unbelievable. You know. Oh god, this is so embarrassing. I can't really want to talk about this. Um. You know. The thing that I love about a relationship is that we play. She had a difficult childhood. I spent a lot of time alone as a child, and I think that for us, adulthood is an opportunity to really play together, to really get that thing that we probably were seeking when we

were children. And the reason why I bring us up is because we watch The Bachelor and The Bachelorette together, and a few days ago we were have you are you familiar watch the show? I didn't watch the show. I have watched the show. Okay, I have watched some key moments. I do. I do understand the poll? Carry on, okay, are you good? Are you familiar with the term? Who'd you? Oh?

My god, no, what does that mean? Okay? So it stands for hug jump and it was coined by a podcast that covers The Bachelor specifically, and a few days ago we were just like, let's just try it. Let's just do the running hug jump, and so, you know, we just like, it's really embarrassing. What we didn't realize is that the webcam that we have in our house for when we're checking in on our dog when we're gone,

was on. And so I have these videos, these really embarrassing videos of her running towards me and me trying to catch her and then twirling around saying like, oh right, I have to twirl like that's an important part of the hug jump. And really I just had the best time. What would be your last mail? I discussed this answer with my wife, and when I told her, like, what do you think it is? She said, please tell me

it's not own meal? And oh my god, that's already telling me that it might be a male it's oatmeal. I think I could have done. I was like, maybe it should be Trinidad Curry. My father's from Trinidad, you know ROTI yum that kind of thing. Maybe it should be my mother's from from Quebec. I grew up in Montreal, so maybe she'd be like, it's is like a meat pie.

Maybe should be something like that, you know, something that's culturally meaningful to me, And no, I just if I know that I'm going to die, I want comfort and I want something else that is anchoring and that is part of my routine, and I want like oatmeal with bananas and peanut butter and a cup of coffee. Like that sounds really good. I might have to go and make that right now. Oh yeah, highly recommended. I like that.

I like that as you were preparing to make an exit that again, it would be about the routine and the comfort that you found in this life and one earth. Would you change that? And have you know Daca Larange at the last moment? Yeah, why would I take a chance? Why would you take a chance? It's the last one. I want something consistent and that something that makes me happy. Sprinkle oh um, if you do do it, a little bit of molten salt flakes like on top of the

bananas and the peanut butter. Very good sounds. And you know, I'm sure that some people are hearing this and are going like, this is the most boring thing. I cannot believe that this is what you would eat going out.

I don't know. I think when we think of ourselves at the nexus of life and death, I don't think you can judge what any single person would say is either their last thought or the last words that they would say, or the last meal that they would eat, because that is between them and the life that they've lived and whatever they anticipate coming next. Yeah, and I want to feel full. I want to think, I want

to I really, really really want to feel full. By the way, being hungry in the afterlife would most likely suck, would suck mal like doesn't that? I mean, I don't actually believe in the afterlife, but just in case, and that's my kind of atheism. Look, just in case, I'm going to have this giant glass of wine and a bowl of oat mail. Yes, I might supplant the coffee for Yeah, that's kind of a weird combination. I don't know,

wine and oatmeal. Look, I do the oatmeal, do some thinking in a bit of writing, then I have a glass of wine, and then sayonara, how about whiskey and oatmeal. Well that's very Scottish, by the way, how about making oatmeal with whiskey? Now that's a thought. If you soaked the oats in the whiskey overnight even and then made them. Oh, I'm definitely making this, so yeah, you'd basically completely modifying overnight oats instead of like milk and yogurt. Let's do it,

let's do it, let's try it out. Definitely think you should do it, because also one might just be slightly hammered after breakfast, but you've eaten legitimately. Yeah, that sounds delightful. It's been such a pleasure talking to you. I'm so grateful for you coming on the show. It's just thank you for having me. Britain. Really really appreciate it. I love the meeting of playfulness and intellectual acuity. I appreciate that. Say hi to Meredith from me. She will thank you

so much for having me. I really do think that this This is an amazing format. It's very very cool. Thank you. You can hear. R L hosts the Vice News Reports podcast every week from Vice and I Heart Radio.

Recent episodes take you from a deep dive investigation into one of the most influential digital disinformation machines run by a little known Chinese spiritual movement, to Tuloom, Mexico, where the reporter travels to try to understand why so many Black Americans are seeking refuge there, and be sure to check out her artwork. She makes lots of it for many of the episodes. Mini Questions is hosted and written by Me Mini Driver, Supervising producer Aaron Kaufman, Producer Morgan Lavoy,

Research assistant Marissa Brown. Original music Sorry Baby by Mini Driver, additional music by Aaron Kaufman, Executive produced by Me Mini Driver. Special thanks to Jim Nikolay, Will Pearson, Addison No Day, Lisa Castella and Annick Oppenheim at w kPr, de La Pescador, Kate Driver and Jason Weinberg, and for constantly solicited tech support, Henry Driver