Unpacking Language and Stigma in Mental Health

I know we want psychiatrists to come and of course we had Moji Akirile and we had Kenneth Uwaji .

And today I'm particularly excited because Dr Abayo , me and I met during the book launch , living Mindfully , and he was the one who gave the keynote speech and that day I even understood my condition better because he made it so simple , so relatable , and I also thought that it was imperative that , as we prepared for a fight for life , I had a psychiatrist come

speak about mental health . So that is not all of us are just advocating , but it's like actually someone who is in the field , who sees people , who diagnoses , who knows how we can navigate and how we should and could use language better to understand what it is that mental health is . Welcome with me , dr Emmanuel Abayon .

There's so much questions going on and , of course , um , I could ask you how are you ? Because that's how I start the show how are you ? Oh , I am , I am awesome . No , you're not , okay good , because I was going to say you can't say I'm fine , all right . So you see , you see , I didn't have to coach them .

I didn't have to coach them , I got you to give the right answer , all right . So we are having a lot of conversations around mental health these days . In your opinion , do you think , as a people , will truly understand what we're talking about ?

Is it all a myth or there is some facts and truth to it ? On that score , I would say no , a lot more still needs to be done . It's not enough to talk about mental health if the context is not helping the listeners or the people having the conversation .

It's more important that we talk about mental health in the right context and in such a way that it helps people get better , go on having an amazing life and enjoy their lives with optimal mental health .

Wow , that's simple , straightforward , straightforward . Now .

Mental health , on the other hand , refers to when your thoughts get in the way of you living the kind of life you want to live , your emotions get in the way of living the kind of life you want to live , or you find yourself engaging in some behaviors that stop you from moving , taking actions towards the kind of life you want to live .

You're mentally healthy if , in spite of these thoughts in your head and these emotions in your heart , you're able to sit properly , calmly . Properly , calmly and mindfully analyze what's happening , the threat before you , and then take actions towards . What you need is financial stability for your family .

You're now able to take actions towards ensuring some form of financial stability . That's mental health . Mental illness is alright . Now you feel some fear what if ? What if I lose all ? And then you begin to panic and when you panic , you become withdrawn .

Or you now engage in some unhelpful behaviors like resorting to alcohol and drugs , or you become hungry and irritable . You start screaming and shouting at your spouse , or you just disappear . As funny as that sounds , that is mental ill health , and I love your choice of words . You didn't say mental illness , you said mental ill health .

That is mental ill health because the man engages in some harmful behaviors , unhelpful behaviors . Now you're about to lose your job and you find yourself resorting to drugs and alcohol for help . You're further depleting your finances . You're better creating a strain on your relationship with your wife . You're now further laying not too good example before your children .

It just snowballs into something big from just a simple threat of job loss and it's snowballed into a number of different problems and complications .

I'm not sure that we can do just this , but because I'm sitting here and of course I've been trying , my friends and people and advocates that I've spoken with in the last 60 , 70 episodes and we've been trying to navigate , you know from what we understand , how we understand and how we navigate our daily stressors , our daily emotional , mental , how did you mention

I'm in class ?

Okay , In light of all that you have said now , especially for a man and I love the fact that it was a man that you used to round this metaphor , that it was a man that he used to round this metaphor In the light of the statistics that face us , that men are more likely to take their lives , they're more likely to attempt , they're more likely to carry it

through than women , why would you say ?

It is unique to men that way ?

Oh , yeah , she's going through some difficult times . She feels overwhelmed . Caught her some slack , give her some space . But the man , real men , don't cry , be a man , be a man , be strong , be tough . That's the narrative society screams out there from everywhere to the man . And the man is going through stuff , the economy , stuff . The man's lost his job .

Well , he's not lost his job , but he take home pain . No , can no longer take him home . He's not supposed to complain , he's not supposed to talk . Now this man bottles all of this . At some point he feels overwhelmed . Yeah , he feels a lot of pain , carrying a lot of burden on his chest , traumatic , traumatic and handing it all .

Suicide seems appealing to him , makes a lot of sense to him . That's one reason because society won't allow the man talk . Another reason is this the means by which men carry out the actions they are more lethal . A man would rather use more lethal weapons to carry out these actions . So it's more likely to complete this action than a woman .

Another reason is personality . Some men tie their dignity , their being , they define themselves by their jobs , and outside their jobs men have very little identity . If a woman loses her job she might say well , I don't have a job , no more .

But thank God I'm a mom , thank God I have babies , thank God a woman can do that , but for a man and you evolution , this makes a lot of sense If you look at the Bible , for those who believe in the Bible , after man was made in the Garden of Eden , before the woman even appeared , he was asked to do some work .

He was identified by the work he was to do . So if a man loses his job and now look at it globally , the economy is going south , retrenchment , men are losing their jobs . So the man , his provider role , is being hit on many fronts and man feels oh look , I'm the provider , I can depend on anyone . I can as well just quit .

And then men are more impulsive by nature , by research , men rather take actions without sitting down and giving a lot of thoughts to the woman . Some say he has 3D view of things . Okay , if I attempt to do this . I have an unhaged mother in the village . I have children .

I have this the woman wants to think of picture , thinks in multicolour , but for the man , largely it's black and white .

Because I'm just thinking what you just said .

Now , of course , um , if , for those of us who use the bible as our reference of faith , you know , you think about how , um , you know adam was , then there's the first account that says male and female he created , and then there's a second account that says that Adam was working and then he was put to sleep and then Eve was created .

So right now my head is working . Is it nature ? Is it nurture ? Is it societal conditioning ?

So , yeah , okay , scientists , you have me there , you have me there . So in in Nigeria , let's go to Nigeria , because I have in this , four months I've been planning August , september , october . Just three months I've been planning . I get DMs and young men , really young men , and I'm talking 22-year-olds 23 , 24 , 26 , 23 , 24 , 26 , 28 .

And they are saying that there's pressure . They're saying that they're 26 and there's pressure . And in my head I'm like a 26 year old-old has such pleasure , a 22-year-old . And then , as I'm saying that in my head and I'm like to you , to where you were at that age , you were actually hustling .

I hate to use that word because the dictionary meaning of hustle is not claim . All right , I was already hustling . Yes , I sent myself to school and all that , but the pressure that comes with it , but the pressure that comes with it .

But I can hazard a few guesses scientific , some of them are hypothetical scientific guesses .

One of them is the internet , the high penetrance of the internet and the collapse of boundaries , physical boundaries , of the internet , such that when you were growing up , tumishi , for example , during your teenage years and maybe your early 20s at the very best , you were exposed , your brain was exposed to negative information that happened around you , in lagos , if

there was a war in israel and and maybe guys are palestine , for example , you wouldn't know until you checked your , until you watched the 90th news , if you did , if your parents allowed you .

But for young people today , their brains , young , growing brains , have been bombarded 247 with all sorts of information from all over the world , and science , research has shown that negative news , news , negative information , has some negative impact on brain cells as a matter of fact , some brain cells suffer a loss . They could actually die .

There's a part of the brain called the hippocampus . Some brain cells there controls emotions , continuous memory . Some brain cells can die when they're exposed repeatedly to negative information .

So young people who , when you were growing up , for example , you didn't have this much exposure to negative news , accident scenes , war , you didn't have that , so your brain was protected , your brain was healthy .

Loneliness is toxic to the brain , makes the brain more vulnerable , less able to develop resilience . Oh and then diet research is sure okay , so this is your fault , this is your real strength , so I'll say no more on that find out about for others , oh yeah yes , now a lot has changed in our diet .

Then our foods were healthier more grain , more nutritious , less junk , unlike today . A whole generation has been fed on junk . That is not healthy for the brain . I'll say two more reasons . One is sleep . Then if you had access to NTA by 10pm or , I think , by midnight , then she goes to bed .

You know there were time for sports , for perhaps , in depending on the kind of school you attended , some agricultural exercise today , however , I went to a military school , so I know .

I don't like that because it will just take you to places you don't want to go to .

But you know , when you go into those spaces , I know for sure , at least you can hear me , I know for sure that when you go into those space , I know for sure , at least you can hear me , I know for sure that when you go into those dark places , the psychotherapy will take you to .

You come out like a phoenix , you know , from the ashes and you then you bloom again . And he is the lead consultant at psych set consulting services we will talk about . Psych said heaven , help me remember , because this is , this is , I'm guessing right now . They're so , so , so interesting . So to , yes , I was . I just wrote .

I wrote an article for um , for an online magazine , just today , just today , and I was . I was talking about play , that the question that I was trying to answer and I was using myself is play is one of the most functional ways to keep a mental whole , mentally whole , psychological safe space for yourself .

Absolutely in as much as and I I was when I was reading brenna brown's one of brenna brown's book and I think gifts of imperfection that she talked about it in as much as it was difficult for me to find play because I had become this very severe young adult wanting to , you know .

But in recent times , and and when I say recent times , in three , four years , I found out that when I sing at the top of my , when I was younger and I was in the middle of all the craziness happening in my life , I would start from the beginning of my streets . They knew I would be singing , I didn't care , I would sing . It was a sacrifice for me .

I would sing from the beginning of the street to the house . I get to the house and I'll dance to my own tune , whether the song was good or not , and then I would scribble . As a child I would just scribble .

And I found that now , even as an almost 46-year-old , that play , that space , is sacred for me and I come out better whenever the moods are changing and I'm moving towards the manic depression or the manic phase . What is the importance of play ? These are the . You know men will say that I'm going to hang out at the bar . Is that play ?

So you know what do we define as players ? How would you define play as a psychiatrist ?

And the first they talked about was sensuomotor stage of development . In other words , the development of your brain . Cognitive development goes through four stages and the very first foundational stage of your brain's development is sensuomotor the five senses and movement .

And that defines , play your five senses sight , smell , taste , hearing , feeling must get active , must be involved , contact your environment , make fun and then walk around . Now , if you notice newborns between the ages of zero dates or first day to one two years , that's essentially how they do and that's how their brains grow .

That serves as the foundation of a mentally healthy adult . Each A child who is deprived of full exploration of his five senses and his movement is at risk of mental health problems later in life . Now for adults . The latest , most cutting-edge research in psychotherapy today loves to look at life in three major domains .

The first is work , your occupation , your education , how you work , how you make money , vocation that's number one . Number two domain is your family , family and friends your wife , your children , your parents , siblings , your friends , your neighbors . That's the second domain and the third domain , you guessed right play play is key .

Play is as important as work in maintaining mental stability . Plays as important as your relationships . Just as you devote your full attention and concentration to work and actually a disproportionately larger amount of time working 8 to 5 , well , I'm asking you to put in 8 to 5 at work . But the point is , play is important . And by play what do I mean ?

Move your muscles , move your limbs , move your hands , move your body by singing , singing , dancing . Move something . It improves your mental health , enhances your mental well-being

. Go , take a walk in the garden and if you look at it again evolutionarily forgive my choice of the word evolutionary and I can look at the bible . Yeah , yes , evolutionary yeah . Yeah , it's okay , we're fine , don't worry when god made man in Adam , god gave him work to do that's work . Then brought a woman , a beautiful woman , to him .

He gave that family . And then , after the fall , god came in the evening , as was his custom . That was a walk in the garden , a walk in the park , that was play . Would come in the cool of the evening , take Adam in the park that was playing . Would come in the cool of the evening , take adam . They would go and walk .

The first is a bit disturbing because it came from a professor , a young man who is a professor at some point was head of his department and we're having a conversation around mental health and you know what he told me hey , hey , hey , hey , hey , hey , how there is to psychology , there is to psychiatry , it's just choice .

And I felt excuse me , you mean hundreds of years of discipline . You want to summarize by just one word choice . Come on , if you don't have information , why not be humble enough to ask If you can do your research ? Ask , and this is heartbreaking , because men have struggles . A lot of men struggle with fears .

They struggle with emotions of sadness , the struggle , emotions of a hunger . Some men think they have failures , the thing to feel . Some men struggle with addictions and this man wants to come out to seek help . And you tell him hey , boys don't do choice you're poor at making choices . That's why you're suffering . Such people withdraw and they hold back .

They won't come out in the open seeking help , and you know why . It's beyond choice , again for my listeners who believe in the Bible . There was a man in the Bible , elijah , after he had killed about 400 prophets of Baal , and the king's wife threatened him she would kill him .

And the man panicked , became suicidal , said God , kill me , I'm not better than my fathers . Would you reduce that to choice ? That's invalidating people's struggles . So there is more to mental health than just choice . That's the first . The second is it is not broken people that come down with mental health challenges .

That you come down with a mental health challenge does not mean you're broken , does not mean you're broken , does not mean you're weak . Again , this is heartbreaking . One of my senior colleagues said today's young people come down with mental health challenges because they are an endemic generation , because they are not resilient .

Yeah , that's what I'm saying , that's invalidating of people's real struggles and then quick ones . Well , for people of faith , men of faith and women of faith , if you are filled with the Spirit of God and you read your Bible and you pray hard enough , you confess positively , you will not come down with a matter mental health challenge that is equally a myth .

Well , am I interested to know that jesus christ , the savior of the world according to christians , although has also had his own mental struggles at the gates , money before the cross ? You know what he said my soul is sorrowful unto death .

So that you have a mental health struggle does not mean you're weak , does not mean you're broken , just makes you human .

As a matter of fact , for everyone who has a brain and men pride themselves on being brainy we have brains , we are brain , we are not just brawny , brainy , brainy , yeah , for everyone who has a brain , you are at risk , as a matter of fact , and five percent at risk , of coming down with a mental illness . So we are just , we're all in this together .

That's's the fact , not the myth . And then , finally , please permit me to share this , please go ahead . Yeah , if you have a mental health struggle . No , no , no , don't talk about it . Don't talk about it . If you talk about it , it means you're weak , you're not man enough , you cannot solve your problems yourself .

No , a sign of strength is if you're independent and then don't you solve your problems yourself . No , think about it In your place of work . Are you the only staff ? You got other people , co-workers , who work with you ? Why ? To make the job easier ? It's the same for your mental health . There are professionals , there are experts .

to make it easier for you to achieve optimal mental health . So reach out , seek help . If your company needs an expansion , they make a public offer , buy her shares . Sometimes they take a loan . Does that mean your company is weak or poor or broken ? No , it's the same for you as a man .

If you need your mental health to be optimal and enhance and grow bigger , help you face the bigger challenges ahead of you . Reach out , seek help . It's no sign of weakness . And please let me add this all mental health problems .

Well , if you've got a mental health problem , they give you medications , load you with injections , give you tablets , give you pills and you become stiff and rigid and you become numb , lose your sensation and then you become fat in my cave .

Why it'll be a personal , a personal um gift to me if you follow . Sykes said and dr about me , why he came in from my bear kuta into the studio to have this conversation . So , yeah , that will be like you guys doing a big one when you follow him . Okay , thank you very much .

So , before we look at the future of men's mental health , what exactly is Sykes' role in changing the narrative ?

People break down . Some people hold it , it's just a little helping hand before they break down . They won't break down at all and they're going to leave their life of an amazing life . So it's one of advocacy , and which is what I'm doing with you here , just to you , educate the public , create awareness .

Mental health struggles people go through validates their feelings , but it in their struggles know there is hope . So the rule one role is advocacy . The second is we actually go into treatment . We help people who have real struggles .

We help them , and the beauty of it is , with technology , you really don't have to come physically to have a physical consultation with us . We can do this virtually and then you get a free well , not free you get a mental health assessment and you can get treatment delivered to your telehealth .

Yeah , and then the third we do is we do health prevention Right Beyond advocacy . We do mental health prevention . Mental health prevention and promotion . We call it , yeah , so yeah , we give you tips to coping skills to help you live and enjoy your life right Mental health promotion . Another word for it in my way in the corporate circles is human optimization .

And I'll give you a good example , you know , one of my clients mentally was fine but she had an exam ahead of her and then she just didn't feel good enough . Mentally she was fine but she just thought I'm not good enough for the ir rule that comes from passing this exam . She was prepared , go write this exam , you pass , you become a partner in the firm .

But she felt like , if I become a partner , am I ready ? am I ready to be a partner ? That's why she reached out to me , and then all I did was just human optimization and afterwards she felt oh , oh great , I'm more than ready to be a partner . She went , wrote her exam and got better . Same for men .

There are many men out there who want to pivot in their careers , but they're wondering am I not too old to change careers ? They have final mentors through Google . They're just wondering should I , should I not ? Human optimization comes in . Oh yeah , you can .

To find ? Simpler languages , simpler ways where we can connect with . Maybe we're not . The question we're asking ourselves on that show was maybe we're not talking , we're not talking the right way , we're not having this conversation the right way , we're not communicating effectively . We're not communicating effectively .

So I'm super psyched Pardon the pun , I'm super psyched , that you know as a psychiatrist . Just I think this was the next episode , next week's episode or last week's episode . I was just . I actually did mention , I mentioned you , I mentioned Gbajewala Abiri , dami Dami Ajayi , mujisola , kerele , kenneth Uwaje .

These are the psychiatrists that I know who are stepping out of the academia to make sure that we understand and truly demystify the narratives that are surrounding mental health questions . And you see , I was wrong , it's here . So in the future , let's talk about the future of men's mental health .

What changes do you foresee , now that we're having this conversation and trying to break it down ? What changes do you foresee in the future when it comes to men's mental health care and support ?

The future of mental health for men is going to be that in a few years' time , each man has a program , a mental health package tailored specifically to his person , to his personal language , his personal language language . He understands His values , what matters to him , what means all the world to him . Let me put this in context .

Say a man , for example , who values sports and well , that's who he's chosen to be Values sports over his wife and children , and that's what makes him tick , that's what makes him happy . Now he has mental health struggles around his team losing or winning and the rest . So mental health struggles around his team losing , not winning , and the rest .

So mental health for men in the future will build around his likes , his interests To see how to teach him skills , to help him make healthy choices with respect to the decisions he takes , with respect to his mental health , to see how to enhance his strengths . To see how to enhance his strengths and to see how to mitigate his weaknesses .

Help him see that , okay , you don't really value your wife and children , but can we mitigate this ? Is a weakness on your part . You don't exactly see it , but can we find a way of mitigating the impact of this ? Because , when all is said and done , these are the people that would be there for you .

Yeah , that may not be the primary focus right now , but we just , at some point , some basic things you can do , so in the future , um , when all else fails , there is something to fall back on now . This is beyond um , a one-size-fits-all program . All of of you go exercise , go sleep . This man is a football fan , he exercises already .

You're preaching to the choir by asking him to exercise , yeah , to exercise . So you're going to work on his values . And then this is at the very , very surface of precision psychiatry .

Now , much deeper , at a much deeper level , we'll do a genome , a genetic analysis of this gene , and know what his genetic makeup is and know what specific molecules , what specific medications work for him If he comes down with a mental health challenge , for example , and see how to modify those medications to work best for him . And it gets me very interested .

In the future . At the genetic level , at the point of birth , we may have a set of data to be able to make a predictive analysis of the likely mental health challenges a man may come up with and then help take care of that . This is all sounding high tech .

And then I had known now where I got it from , I know from whom , I know from which parents I got it from . You know , but when ? You so , I think does that sound like a two-edged sword kind ?

Look at COVID-19 , for example , when the mRNA vaccine was in the development stage . There's a lot of fear-mongering , but some people took the bulls by the horn and went ahead all the same to do that . Look at all of history . Some fear comes . Now that fear is not entirely bad . It serves as a guide .

My promise a year and a half ago when I started Mindfully With with the machine , was to make mental health care and then the awareness much , to bring it to your doorstep , to tell you that is accessible , to make you understand that ill health and mental wholesomeness are two different things and for you to live a mentally whole self does not mean that they

won't be bad . They will be bad . The myth that makes us think that , oh , I'm protecting my mental health is a bad thing . That is what we're trying to expunge . Health is a bad thing .

That is what we're trying to expunge , because the ability and your capacity to be able to deal with daily stressors yeah , is what mental health is , is what you're protecting your mental health is . You've gotten to a space that you understand that within this parameters , I am the optimal and I don't want you to come shake that .

That is what mental health protect your mental health is and I hope you can . Did I say that right ?

. You did stop playing too safe , that you forget to live your life . Go out there and live your life in spite of the challenges , the only . You're only sure of one thing challenges will come . Yeah , admit your struggles , acknowledge them , go ahead and live your life in spite of the challenges . You're only sure of one thing . Challenges will come .

Admit your struggles , acknowledge them , go ahead and live your life . Make mistakes , pick yourself up again . Life is stressful .

Thank you so much . My pleasure to be part of this . I'm sure I'm going to repeat this particular episode over and over . I'm joining you If I can get him back here , but I'm going to repeat it over and over . And for every man out there you matter . For every woman out there , you matter . A young adult , your children , a teenager , you matter .

A young adult , your children , a teenager , you matter . You know what you're going through right now is a rite of passage . Yes , it is . It's a rite of passage . You will come out victorious . Yeah , my name is Oluwadzimise Oladakokoku . Love yourself , love your neighbor , love your country . Above all of this , love god . He is the essence of your being .