Aligning Inner Thoughts and Actions: Self-Awareness in Relationships

It's never too late to create a structure that serves you . Now let's dive into this week's conversation . I sat down with Aya Daniels , the author of Beyond Romance . As you know , one of the main pillars of Mindfully With Jim Shea is health and relationships .

So when I read Beyond Romance , I knew it was imperative for me to sit with Ayo Daniels to tap into his wells of knowledge about relationships and family . Enjoy this thoughtful and inspiring conversation with Ayo Daniels , a relationship counselor , an author and a pastor .

Hi , mindful Partners , and welcome to another episode of Mindful Itomi Shea , the podcast of Mindful Retreat with Michelle . The podcast Today is a full circle moment for me and I'm so glad that it's the first recording for 2025 and I have this amazing Solinger studio . We call him PAD , but for the sake of this conversation , we're going to call him Aya Daniels .

How are you ? I think I'm good , you think alright . What makes you think you're good ?

well , at least I feel good so I think I'm good this morning and I have a cup of coffee , a cup of to make sure anything for you here , because we try to demystify the conversations around mental and people think that when you talk mental health you're talking about people who are sick in the head .

But we're really talking about the thoughts in your head , the emotions that pop up in your heart and if they are in tandem with the behavioral patterns that you see in the feeding , and because of that we are doing a book review and a conversation .

Aya Daniels is a pastor , a counselor , but first let me ask you , let me not say what I think I know , if we're going , if you were going to describe are your Daniels , what would you be saying ?

I know that you are a relationship expert and you might not even remember this before we get into the book . Back in 2020 , 2000 , 2000 , the year of our lord back in 2000 , I was in a very , very dark place and you had given this message . Back then , in the church that we both attended , and I think it was on a Tuesday , I came to your office .

You had given me a book about counseling and you said okay , I think and I don't even know why you gave me that book , but you should have given me the book . But then we were talking about relationships and I said to you that I don't know if you remember , but I said to you I saw you , I don't want to marry .

I I don't want to marry , I just want to have two children and just be . But I don't want to marry . And I remember you saying to me okay , give me three days to mishap . I'm not asking you so fast , just go three days Um go pray . If after three days you still don't feel like you should get married , I'm not going to say anything .

Do you remember that conversation ?

So it's like the law that reoccurs each time when I'm confronted with relationship matters . But I think I can remember now that we had a conversation . That we had a conversation and because what usually happens is when we have such when I have such conversations with people , I look inward .

So books to recommend is usually what comes out of delicate conversations like that .

Isn't it amazing that your book and , living mindfully , my book started with the same question knowing who you are . Who are you was , uh was the first question that asked . And then you are saying now that a person who wants to go into any relationship should know who they are . What is the story behind that ?

But the truth is that this book has been something I've carried for over 20 years I would say two decades and it's basically it's a book out of my personal experience , our experiences with people , relationships that worked , the ones that didn't work . So out of that experience came the story of Alex and Sharon .

It's just like a picture of when people walk through this life . Some people , they really walk . They walk as in working hard to discover who they are . So some hold their relevance or significance in the things that they do . So in terms of their natural walk , some extend it to what they acquire .

Some people acquire relationships , they acquire things , and if care is not taken , a lot of people tend to put their work in that . So Alex was such a guy , I mean a professional . Sharon E Ecole was a professional . They understood work , they were making , I mean building their lives individually .

And then Sharon seems to be someone who is a bit ahead of Alex , so I mean Financially . These are the questions . These are the questions .

Then , in the midst of all this , who is Alex ? Of all they say , who is Alex ? It's a very basic question that I think any woman who wants to do relationship should ask and I agree with you .

You know the message of self-preservation is so right and self-awareness is also , you know , one of the most important things that a person should carry into a relationship .

So there is a vacuum in every human being . They want to define . They want to define meaning . What is meaning ? What is success to me as an individual ? Being able to answer that question who am I ? Am I what I own ? Am I where I live ? Am I the company that I keep ? Am I where I work ?

So we need to be able to define . It's like self-discovery , self that leads to self-fulfillment and then that leads to self-actualization . So , awareness is the balance . And you do that awareness , not just within you , but you do it with your I put it straight point with your , your creator yeah , yes , we're going to get there , but I want to .

They may not know really who they project themselves as . Oh see , like they like , they may not really be who they project themselves . As Rema , I tell you , the journey to true satisfaction in any area of life starts when you truly acknowledge who you really are . And the $1 million question today , as Sharon asked Alice , is who are you ?

You said before I , before I read that part , you said something about you can't do it alone . You have to do it with your creator , and I don't have a problem with that . You know that . However , we need your late emphasis on us going to the creator . We live in times where people are at best irreligious , at worst agnostics or atheists .

So if a person picks up beyond romance now and they're telling you that they are artists , they are irreligious . It's some . Yeah , I know that there's a god , but let god like if you should , don't god hold heaven , me I will hold earth , you know ? Um , what would you be saying to that person who falls into this category ?

Uh , what would be the takeaway of how to find themselves if they don't believe there is a higher power , to submit to ?

She's trained to smile at people and whether she wants to or not , she feels like or not she has to . That's what the job demands .

But in an instance or in a situation where that person chose joy , that person is not driving on happiness , which means if this passenger is nice to me , then I'll smile back at them nicely , but I choose joy , Whether you are nice or not . It's that decision to be good to people is beyond that person , is beyond feelings .

So I think we can look at that from the perspective of being spiritual means there is something that comes from within us , there is a personality behind that . It's some . Ordinarily , maybe I don't want to smile , but because I have joy , I have something to share with people .

So whatever category people fall into , I mean , being religious simply means you're looking for something .

They want to fill it . Some people fill it with money , some people fill it with possessions , some people fill it with people . So , if anyone finds themselves in those categories , so when people are around them , they are happy . When there is no one , when they are left alone , are they are finding , uh , how to be happy .

So , um , what I , what I say to people is is when you search , that's what religion . Religion is man searching for god ? Spirituality is god having relationship with man ? Oh , ah , so I mean you . You , if you are spiritual , you have attained that level where you know that you are not searching for God . God actually lives on the inside of you .

You are his hard dress , you are his emblem . So what you do is that you are reflecting his image . You are a blessing to your world . You are kind to everyone that you meet , because that's what spirituality is all about . I still don't get it when people say they are religious and they are mean , they exhibit wickedness . I don't get it .

He said he exhibits wickedness . Well , if you are spiritual , you know that there is a conflict . You want to be mean to people , but something within you just recognizes that , oh , this person is in the image of a higher power . This takes us to page 38 .

. It's a very straightforward question . There are choices to be made in life , a lot of people . Self-awareness will help us to determine that I don't have control the day I was born . I don't have control into the family where I was born . I don't have control , probably in the elementary school , the neighborhood that I lived while growing up .

But once I assume adulthood I should have control and exercise my control . And the only way we can see that is in the decisions that we make . If I am spiritual and I marry a religious person , there will be conflict . Conflict in terms of our beliefs , conflict in terms of our values .

So by saying that in that page , if I'm an idol worshipper , I mean responsibility demands that I stay with my people , so that there is no conflict as to how to spend our money , how to raise our kids . These are decisions that we make . Once you choose relationship , what kind of a home do I want to build ? So you must .

It's like um , this is how I put it , um , you are taking a flight , there is a pilot , there is a co-pilot . They are not in conflict , they are in agreement . There is a flight plan . So every before they they leave that point a and fly to their destination , they already agree . There is no .

Nobody says , oh , I want to turn one degree left , and the other person say , no , I want , I want to turn one degree . It's just an accident going somewhere to happen . It's not a question of , because I know people will argue that . The truth is that there is no . God has given us human beings the will . God himself doesn't enforce his will to all .

So if I marry , if I choose to marry someone , it's my will , it's my decision , and so what I'm trying to communicate in that place ? A lot of people get into marriage and they are trying to fight a battle they cannot win .

Hey , you're not . You're not god . You can't change fellow human beings . All of us are a work in progress , but I think we enjoy the ride better if we can see it , at least to a large extent . We can believe the same thing , we have shared values , and then we have shared way of .

In my own understanding , this is about values like let me stretch a little . Let me stretch it a little bit with what you just said . If you attend denomination a I , you want to go by reason . When you from another denomination , this is going to be conflict , isn't it ?

So I want to know what denominational a believes . I want to know if it's in tangent with what we at c believe . So once we can agree , even if are differences , and both of us who are getting into that relationship agree that , okay , this is what you believe , this is what I believe . But since we have a common denominator , we owe our lives to God .

So what does God say ? That's the difference between being spiritual and being religious Because a denomination may be religious about certain things that they teach . Yc is also religious about certain things , but what is the mind of God about that subject matter ?

So if we can live in alignment Because at the end of the day , a denomination A will not help us to run our marriage , B , C will not help these two people who are on the same page , I mean , there is something I say to people is that we must live our lives as spiritual people . Being Christocentric , what does that mean ?

Being Christocentric means Christ is at the center of our shared values , of our shared attitudes . So if that is in place , I think we can go ahead . But hey , people are stretching so far , I mean too far Religious people . We say , oh , you can't do this , you can't do that .

If you know the kind of freedom that God has given us and you choose to exercise that freedom based on the principle of his word , I think you are good to go .

But you see , back in November I went to Abuja and I was with friends and we're just talking generally . I even made an episode about it and my friend said she's from Plato state and she said that when , a when a mother has a child and you know , you come to greet the child , um , so you're coming now . Oh , this child is ugly , has a big nose .

I'm like what ? And I'm I'm still , I'm processing in my head . I'm like I don't understand . They are calling the child ugly . They are . And she said , yes , that in her tribe , when , um , when people come to visit the child , they make such remarks to tell the evil spirit this child is not your own . You can't come and see this child .

This one is not fine for you to come and carry . Yeah , I get the general principle of that . I get the general spiritual principle of that . But imagine a Yoruba woman , or even you know who has just gone through the pains of birth and all that .

And somebody comes from her husband's family , carries a child and he's smiling and saying this child is ugly , oh . And I'm like wow , and I'm still processing this in my head . Guess what ? Then she talks about her dad , that her dad does not , did not and does not allow backhanded um compliments in his house . And I said you know what ?

Your father stepped outside tradition and took a place , the place of a prophet , over your life . The culture must have started with good intent , with good intent . So culture , the place of culture . Because , again , page 39 . Yeah , that's right . Yeah , page 39 . Going on . Yeah , page 40 .

Actually it says some individuals cannot handle the culture shock that may come with getting married from and into a different culture from theirs , while some others do easily connect to thrive .

Some families actually refuse to give the intending couple their blessings when they are of different cultural background , while some others take their time before offering the required support , while some others treat such decision as a non-issue . Of course this . There is no straight , darketed way the way you round yourself in knowing who to marry , just um .

The second chapter , the third chapter here is in . Every intended couple should be accountable to their connected ties in their relationship . What does that mean ?

So I was hoping to get married to someone from Kenya , someone from Zimbabwe , all those places . Really , yeah , I love women with forehead .

So what am I saying here ? People underestimate what it takes to get married . There are a whole lot of preparations and I was doing something at that time . So I would jokingly ask my parents because I know that they're going to be stakeholders and all that what if I bring someone that you don't understand their language and all that ?

And I know that it's okay , my sisters will disagree as long as she's ready to be part of our family . So what am I saying ? We all underestimate what it takes . A lot of people waited the last minute , uh , to see , and that's where the things you read earlier on comes in .

A lot of people don't know , even in in our own culture here in nigeria , um , people underestimate what it is . So I was saying that if I don't get married to someone from East Africa , I will marry another People , have you ? We all have preferences and all that . So that was my decision . So , as they say , as fate will have it , and I think this .

If people learn to ask the basic questions uh , what is in your ? So I wonder these days , like you said , what people are looking now when they say they are going out , where are you going to ? What are you talking about ?

So you need to have resolve , just like alex and sharon will answer those practical questions , um , within themselves before they make , even make that their relationship , uh , come into the open . So culture we underestimated it .

I mean , we underestimate it , the role it plays in relationship , and I think what we need to do , which we are preaching to people now , is that we should all become global citizens . In other words , whether you are Chinese , you can marry a Nigerian , a Nigerian can marry someone from Russia , from Somalia , and all that .

So I think people just underestimate those things . Don't get into very serious relationships before you answer those questions . Once you have spotted who you want to marry , start asking basic questions about their culture .

Get back home , ask your own people so that by the time you are coming , you are introducing him or her , you would have crossed certain barriers and you would have prepared their minds understand what I mean . In certain culture .

Let me just put this out in certain culture you said something about , in that particular culture where people come , and raise the new child in certain culture . Maybe in those riverine areas . When kids are born , they throw them into the water so that's exactly what I'm about to to point out as a mother .

A mother who is just having a newly born child can't watch his or her kids . Iris McBear will happen , but that's the reality of the culture , because , that's the way . That's how powerful the culture is , that's the way the mother was trained , that's the way , probably the father was . So it was like a common thing . This is like a common thing .

This is like a testing uh , this is like a litmus test whether this is a true son or daughter of this family . So you can't underestimate that coach and , of course , certain people , uh , what they regard as respect . So these are questions when two people are in a relationship , they should start asking themselves what is respect to you ?

What is respect in your culture ? What is um ? How do you quantify these ? I mean , there are many questions about the way we all live our lives , so culture determines that way , okay , so ?

Wallah you know , but I hear these days and this might be even outside , beyond romance , but it's not , maybe it's going to be in the second book . There is a book Beyond Dating , beyond Dating . Yeah , I hear these days , especially from marriage , people who are going through challenges , and I read it online and my heart literally beats out .

I hear people say things like I think I picked the wrong father for my children , I picked the wrong mother for my children and , of course , because my mental space always is , what is going through the minds of these people , what could have happened in your expert opinion as a counselor ?

Before we get back to dating , courtship and all that , what is the effect of such statements on the minds of these partners ?

So a lot of people , by the time they were picking their partners , they were not adequately informed about what it takes to pick , to choose someone for marriage . However , in picking they realize and that's the reality of life Sometimes you realize that , okay , maybe I made a mistake , but hey , you can't beat yourself with bat on the head .

Mistakes is part of life . But the way I like to say to people is that so use what you have to fashion what you want to see . So if the two people who are involved in that relationship are willing to grow , they can change their mindset , they can change things that , uh , they have . They are holding on .

In fact , there is no way you can have a thriving marriage if you are not ready to give up , to take on yeah , so that's the thing . Please repeat that you cannot have a thriving marriage if you are not ready to Give up and take on and take on . So it means okay .

Now I realize that maybe I have a discolored judgment in my choice , but who is this person and usually what you find with people in relationships ? We are not all that bad on scale 1 to 10 . With every human being we have their area that they are good . So why not focus on that good part , have a discussion and then grow together ?

Because that's the whole essence of this marriage thing Two people who don't know who they are .

They started living together , shared life , and they are growing together , and it takes a whole lot of mutual love and understanding it is making it sound like you and I yeah , I know you know , you know that's that's another thing uh to michelle a lot of people think marry , marriages walk . Ah , I'd walk . Oh , you have to give up to take on .

tendency for you to have less mental struggle and then be there for yourself and your family is high , and that's why you should read beyond romance , especially for those of you are just starting . Some of us like this .

We have become and and I started with a story that I shared with that the conversation him and I had some 2000 , there's some 25 years ago- now yes , some 25 years ago , because I was so sure at the time that I was not going to get married but I was going to have children anyway .

and I looked into the eyes like this sister of god you know , this is a sister of god who comes to church , conducts and all of that and of course he knew a bit of my story at the time and he understood why I was saying marriage , but children , yes . But how do we burst this and find healing on the way to being ?

Because once you decide to have a relationship , especially romantic relationship , is for life , whether you have heartbroken or you are living , it's for life , because a choice to love is actually a choice to hurt . All right . So dating friendship courts , help us , help our government . Because this thing , because I I'm not even kidding PD I go online .

I'm like , okay , if I was , I've been dating this . A big yeah , I'm still dating my husband For 20-something years .

I , I mean the social network , the means of the platform for social network now is different from the way we used to see it . But I think for me , from my own little mind , to prefer this solution . I think we need to change the definition of friendship . I think that's where the problem is . People don't understand what quality friendship is all about anymore .

I said to people okay , like yesterday , I still resolved something for someone . She was asking me I think I posted something , so she was reacting to it by saying there are no good men out there anymore . I said no , there are still good men out there . He said . I said how do you mean ? What do you mean ? What's happening ? He said .

She said , okay , there's this guy that she met and they only dated for one week and the truth was that after one week , the guy wanted sex and she said no , and the guy broke up and then got another girlfriend the following week so that's , that's the so I told her that , see , and he said that that's not the first time , that's not the second time I said

people don't understand what true friendship is all about . I remember I used to have female friends and it's just good quality friendship and I still keep some of them . My wife know them . It's not sensual , it's just good quality friendship .

So if people don't understand these days , if they see myself and Tumishe somewhere , an average person , the way their mind has been , why is that ? Something must be going on . If they see myself , tumishe , having lunch somewhere , something must be going on . It's not like that I remember we used to . I used to have these friends , about four of us .

We travel with our friends who are female . They take a room , we take a room and there is nothing . We just explore places together , I mean , and we come back . All of us are married to different people today and we are still friends , so coming to dating , is it friendship dating and courtship ? Friendship dating , courtship .

I think that's why I just categorize it that way . It's likely that most people will marry from their circle of influence . In other words , it may be your colleagues , your friends , your friends of friends , the people you live in community together , family friends , people you went to school together .

If you want to get married , like for this year , your husband or your wife is not just going to be created . Maybe about 3% of people will meet someone who is like they are meeting for the very first time . Whichever way we get into , let us all learn to develop quality friendship . In other words , I just want , let us all learn to develop quality friendship .

In other words , I just want to be of help to this person , I want to add value . So from that quality friendship a lot of people have seen oh , I love this guy , he's kind , or I love Hush the way and this way , and then from there there they take it further . That's when . So it's not more .

good morning good afternoon so it's like you just want to know uh , what is this person , who is this person needs ? And I know that too quick . If you're asking somebody about their family , about their wealth , about everything , within two weeks you know that probably that is not going to work .

So , friendship , what it does is that it settles the individuals with confidence that this guy is not here to take from me or this lady is not here to take for me . Those are the things that are missing in the equation . Most of the people I deal with now it's the focus is on is not on .

That value is what they want to take from each other , and I've been in spaces where people say I mean it's very interesting . I was in a space one day and I it really surprised me . I mean I was shocked . I thought that it was the men who want to take from the women and a lady got up and said no , we are taking from each other .

There is nobody who is heartbroken . You use me , I use you , god no vet . So I was saying to myself a man is supposed to protect a woman , not to take from them that way . So I think that definition of friendship , we need to redefine it and if you find someone out of your friends that you feel that you can share your life with , move it to dating .

You know them , not their bodies , because most of the .

I said to someone that my , that one of my closest friends is a guy , and my friend said and my friend said hey to me , say you have a male close friends and boom , you know .

I say yeah , but me knows , and we that when I had not seen this friend in 15 years in fact it was the one that was on podcast last week I had not seen for about 15 years and when we saw we hugged for so long and it's Bumi said when hotel lobby and we said get these guys a room they've not seen themselves in 15 years and people I could literally

see ladies go like okay well , you know that that's emotional maturity , yeah , so a lot of people also miss that out , uh , in their relationship that's why I said , dating your husband is still something .

I say to a lot of people who are prospecting to have a relationship , the way a man is wired and this is the honest truth once a man can take advantage maybe not advantage because somebody says we are taking advantage of each other , but once a man can have sex with a woman , it's rare for them to or sex with a woman it's rare for them to If there are

no sense of commitment before in that relationship , the commitment that is attached to that relationship begin to wane . And the lady , the way they are wired , they think that more sex will make them be acceptable to a guy . A guy is just like a hunter , someone who is a real skillful hunter .

He just picks his gun and behind his house he has a wild animal and he's just . I mean the satisfaction to eat that meat is not as will be as him going to hunt for it .

If you could have dinner with three people , dead or alive , who would they be and why ?

I want to sit with Whitney Houston . Ah , I want to learn from her . I mean what happened . How do you walk through success ? How do you manage it ? Because most of the times is not when we are craving for success prominence . We are all hungry .

So I want to understand from what ? Mali fella , how do you develop yourself to produce music with a message ? So those are the uh three or four people . I like to have dinner , just have conversations . I can just put my food on the table and just be listening to them a good way to round off this episode .