Navigating the Complexities of Couples Therapy ft Kristen Feemster

Dr. Raquel Martin: Yeah, I'm gonna be honest with you that the I was first introduced to you via your your social media, your fitness videos, because they're straightforward, and I was able to easily build like, a formidable workout without having to have like, 50 minutes of intro or someone trying to, like, sell me stuff like it, literally, like, when you look on it, she's doing an Exercise to show you how to do it as a modified one, a regular one, simple,

Dr. Raquel Martin: like, exactly what I was looking for. Like, there are more accounts doing that now, but you were the first account I would follow you for years. You were the first account actually doing that. Because I really just wanted to be like, can I just listen? We don't have text just arm day. I don't know what to do. Can I? Can you please just show me what to do via arm day. I don't want the shaker bottle. I don't want the booty tights. All I want just tell me what to do on arm

day, for the love of God. So, yeah, that's why I started following you. I was just surprised by that she was also a clinician. So I was like, Oh, that's fantastic. I mean, I followed you just for the fitness double whammy. It's just, I get sick of being sold stuff all the time. So you are a

licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. Tell me about the difference between when it comes to like, your training, because everyone doesn't work with couples, like and working marriage and family therapy, working with families, working with couples. Those are specialties. I don't think everyone grasps that, like not everybody. Just because you trained the individual therapy does not mean you can work with couples, right? It does not mean you can work with families. You

have way more people in the room. It's a lot. Yes, I think exactly to what you were speaking about is being able to manage the people in the room, you know. And so my background me, marriage and family, going all the way back to my, you know, schooling and everything, we did a lot of work around just understanding family dynamics, how family of origin, you know, how you grew up, childhood experiences and that sort of thing, affect the way you choose partners and

experience your adult relationships, you know. And so in knowing that information, that's not the only part that makes the specialization so helpful is that we actually have real time experience with multiple people being in the

room. So it's easy to know the information about how these things should work and how people are affected by their attachment style and their, you know, upbringing, but to actually have two people in the room that you have to kind of counteract their energies and make sure everybody feels heard, then in real time, manage some of those issues. It's, I enjoy it because it's there's never a dull moment in those situations.

You know, there's always something to work with. But it's definitely a major difference coming from just having the one person's story, their voice, their truth, to having multiple people in there to manage at the same time. Do Dr. Raquel Martin: you feel as though people come in with certain misconceptions when they come into family or couples

therapy? Because as someone who's worked with families, I think the biggest misconception that people come in with is thinking that I'm there to be the referee and to keep score, asking me whose side they're on, like, Oh, she agrees with me. She agrees with me. And I would say that's the that's the big that's the most consistent one I get. And I have to be like, I am not a referee. My patient is the family. Neither one of y'all are

my patient individually. You know, like, do you, do you feel as though you see similar misconceptions when people are coming to you for the first time? Yeah, I think so. I think that, you know, depending on gender, it can kind of feel people can, like, say, a husband or a male partner can feel concerned that there's going to be a piling on, you know, if they pick a a female therapist versus a male, you know, those types of things can come up. And I also like to

be upfront about that. I have some some counselors do, but I want a healthy relationship for the both of you. I'm not sold on keeping you together or breaking you up. And it may feel like the questions that I'm asking or the things that I want to unpack have some sort of, like, underlying motive behind them up there she's trying to tear us apart. It may be that we just

need to have a hard conversation. And so that's another misconception, is that maybe I'm out to, you know, keep them in something that they don't want to be in, because a lot of people come in on the fence or with what I call like one foot out the door, where they're like, I'm kind of leaning out. So I even on the onset of therapy, I will meet with the couple together for the first time, just to make sure

everybody knows we're all on the same team. And then I actually break the couples of the partners apart and meet with them separately, just to gage, are you. You leaning out? Are you leaning in? I want to make sure that I'm hearing what you're saying, to keep that neutrality, you know, when I'm coming into the joint session. So that's another misconception, is that maybe I have, like, some some end goal, and I'm like,

hey, this may end in you guys parting ways. I want to support you in just having the conversations and doing the work to come to that conclusion, I am not committed to an outcome. And so that's another thing. Hey, Dr. Raquel Martin: everyone, just a reminder that mind, your mental is not just a podcast. It is also a amazing community. If I do say so myself, it's phenomenal. I mean, you get more

access to me. What more could you want in this life? So if you want to join the community, if you're not already on the community, go to my social media. My social media is the same Raquel Martin, PhD, and DM me the word community, so you can get details on joining this amazing, flipping community. You get more access to me. Y'all like, I'm a delight. All right.

All right. Hope to see you there. I love the fact that you split a split them up at times, it in not to be confused with the fact that you're their individual therapist, because even when you split them up, you are still there, right? Yes, yes, we're still having conversations about the most recent couples therapy session. Maybe there's something I want

to clarify with them in private. I don't keep secrets. It's about hearing them clear, clearly, so that I can, you know, navigate whatever challenge we're having in the session, so I'm clear about that I don't like. So in our individual appointments, don't tell me secrets that you're not comfortable with. You

know, eventually sharing. All right, we got to figure out how to do that, but it will help me hear you, and maybe you can share in a different way without your partner present, and then I can help you with communicating that you know confidently or with a different language in the session. But everything is definitely for the purpose of coming back to the couple's

work, no matter how many times we break off. And I'll add to oftentimes, I pretty soon, if they're not already in their individual therapy, we're starting to talk about, you know, what does it look like for you to have an individual

therapist? Because maybe things are coming up. I do 90 up to 90 minute sessions, because it can be a lot to unpack, but I always like for clients to have that individual therapist so that I can defer and say, and that sounds like something, you know, for your individual so that you can, you know, continue to work on that and show up in the couples therapy space, you know, as healthy as possible. So those are some ways I try to make sure that you know the boundaries are clear on my purpose by

acknowledging and deferring to that other resource. Yeah, Dr. Raquel Martin: and why is it important for everyone to understand that your couples therapists will never be your individual therapy. I think, yeah, well, honestly, some people, some therapists, have heard, have different approaches to this, and, you know, kind of have different boundaries with it. Really, yes, yes, I've Dr. Raquel Martin: I'm gonna let you know I'm okay. So Dr Martin

is a firm. It's appropriate at all? I don't think it's appropriate at all. We agree, yeah, yeah. I don't think it's appropriate at all. I think it just complicates something that doesn't have to be but do, yeah, I do think, you know, if I had to have some level understanding, I might see, like, where in rural areas where there's just not enough to go around, maybe, or, you know, there's some something nuanced

about the dynamic that would lend itself to that. Now, I've only heard about this in the Facebook street, so I don't know anybody personally that's doing it. But on a Facebook group, I was like, wow, that's, I don't know how they're doing that. Just keep scrolling. I'm just like, I don't know about that, but I decide, you know, I've let them know once we tap in, same thing with my individual clients, and usually my individual clients are like, Yeah, I don't want my boyfriend

to meet you. You're mine. You know, they're like, I don't want to. I wouldn't want that anyway, like, he's got to find his own, yeah, his own therapist. I just say, you know, that's honoring the way that we connected first, and that allows us to not have to have so many complications from dual relationships and

holding different considerations in mind. You know, if I'm your individual therapist, I can just show up for you, and you don't have to worry about what you say, do or whatever, showing up in another session. And the same for the couple's work. You know, you can know that that is a place and space to unpack that, and then we can go into talking about your career or your friendships or your whatever else, and your individuals. And you know you have time and space to do both without it all

getting convoluted. So I try to speak to it as, like, a benefit and not, you know, a cost, you know, a liability, to not be able to speak to the same person about everything. Dr. Raquel Martin: Yeah, that's how I was trained, too. Because I think that gets confused as to who you're serving, right? Like when I'm working with families, the family is the patient,

right? Like, there is no I'm understanding that we operate in a system, and we're going to work on what is best for the system right now with couples work, you can you guys, may, they may decide to, like, what's best for us as a as individuals or in the system, is to no longer be in a relationship, right? That doesn't get to happen in family therapy a lot, but understanding that they had. Unified patient is the I don't even do my rule, and I think I'm still able to stick to this

rule. I haven't had to come up yet. But, like, I don't work with siblings and individual therapy. Oh yeah. So, like, if I'm seeing sibling a for individual therapy, I'm not seeing sibling B for individual therapy, like somebody else has to see them. I remember having one, like, during training, having a couple of encounters with that, and they really would just come in and think, like, well, make sure when you go in your session you tell them not to touch my stuff. I like, what

is this triangulation? This Dr. Raquel Martin: is a problem. I'm not doing this with you, right. Like, and it's just like, it's very different. So, like, one of my rules is, like, I don't see siblings, mom, dad, you figure out which one you want me to see, and we'll figure out who the other one. Yes, because you're not about to spend my whole session giving me a play by play of how they took your Barbie and then you destroy their hot wheel truck. And now,

right, right? And then, to my to your point, you start to replicate issues that are probably in the home or in the family dynamic in general, if we're being honest, because it's like, what does this look like when I'm the therapist? Isn't the commonality. It probably shows up in the way that they use their parents to mitigate different issues or whatever. You know what I'm saying, you can kind of really get into the dysfunction by doing that and overstepping those types of

boundaries. So in demonstration of health, I'm going to keep things separate for all of us. Everybody needs their person. Nobody wants to feel like, you know, you're always having to play both sides. And so that's the dangers of it, though, you can easily get kind of wrapped up in the codependent, complicated triangulation. That is probably a part of why they're there. And you got to say, I'm not going to

participate in that. Let's go ahead and and do this separately so that everybody gets their needs met, because that's probably what they need, especially your children. I mean, all this. But you know what I mean? It's probably, yeah, I Dr. Raquel Martin: totally get that. When I found my psychologist after our first session, I was like, Man, I don't know if I want you to be my psychologist or my mentor and like. So when people are like, well, I want you to work with us

in both ways, I'm like, Listen, I have felt this pain. I totally get it. I totally understand, you know. But Right? Right? Can't do it. Can't do it. Dr. Raquel Martin: You know, you can't do it, right? Because I can't have her as both. She's my psychologist. She'll never be able to be my mentor. Like, it's not a thing. So that was, I'm like, I felt this, I too, felt this pain. No, I literally was just like, I think you're a little too dope to be my

psychologist. I do need a mentor as well, right? Just having to just be an adult like so which one did you go with? Which did you decide psychologists? But sometimes I regret my mental health can wait. I was hoping you were gonna say mentor, because I'm like, getting mentor some days, sometimes I regret it. Like mental health could have waited. I could have waited to find somebody.

No, I feel you on that. I feel you on that. I have the same thing come up with inquiries where, you know, because I do offer coaching and different stuff, it's like helping them decide, yeah, and you're right. It's that dilemma like, dang, I know I need the therapy. But this, you know, this other dynamic which has less, you know, less rules and, you know, guidelines and ethics around it. And I don't want to say less, it may be different. You know what I'm saying. I ought to get the

dilemma. I get the dilemma. But mental health, you know, then I was like, dang, I wonder if that's her mentor, psychologist. That's okay, Dr. Raquel Martin: you know, because here's the thing, mental health wise, has been doing a lot better. So we've transitioned to like, you know, boosters, right? But then I kind of just want to be like, I kind of just want to kick it like, because you guys, did you just want to talk and I can't, because it's just like, Girl, no, she's got her

she's got her boundaries. First Dr. Raquel Martin: she's, I've been working with her since I was a student. That's why I was, that's why it was even more. Just like, part of my issue is that there's so much racism in my program, and I could also benefit from a mentor, right? So, right, yeah, you bring up a good point. This is the intersection, right? I mean, you kind of bring up a good point. It's like, do you

have to decide? But I mean, again, I know the benefits. I know the I know the protective factor is involved in deciding, but sometimes it is hard. Sometimes you sit at the intersection and it's hard body right there at the intersection. So Dr. Raquel Martin: she's a good psychologist, but she would have been a great mentor, too. Anyway, if you're listening to this doctor Williams, I love you, but I know she don't listen to my

I could get her to be my mentor. She sounds great. I want you to know how it Dr. Raquel Martin: is. You're not gonna just have my dream. She's not right. That's just not right. I ran into her at an APA event, like I hadn't seen it because we had done telehealth since I hadn't seen her in a minute. And I ran up and gave her a hug. I said, Don't make this weird. I'm gonna need a

hug, and then I'm leaving. And she was just like, Raquel, you just, just like, I just, I just haven't seen your physical body even so like, I'll see you next session. Nobody knows anybody. We're at it. We're at it. We're at an APA American Psychological Association event. You know, clearly you're going to be at this event. It's very pro black, which is why you're great psychology, exactly. But, yeah, it was pretty painful. Sometimes I think I made the work wrong decision. One of the things,

right? You know, we'll talk about it in session. She's just gonna be like, well, there's the Association of Black Psychologists, and you could find a mentor there. And no, I already know girl. I already know. I've been working with her for a minute. She She don't play these games. She's like, but let's focus on our plan. Okay, because we talked about this running a tight ship.

Dr. Raquel Martin: Oh, wow, you gotta love it. But one of the things I think, is really that I've noticed when it comes to like, whether I'm building relationships or talking to friends, building relationships or even patients, is how much they don't really they may forget about how their relationship with themselves is going to impact the way that they navigate any relationship that they have, whether it's romantic, whether it is friendship, whether it is

collegial with co workers. Can you talk about how you've seen that play out in sessions like when it comes to you mentioned family of origin, but also possibly habits they may have, or possibly core beliefs that will impact the way we engage with anyone? Yeah, so the way I view things across the board, even when it comes to fitness and just, you know, wellness goals.

In that sense is that, you know, in our family of origin, when we when we are growing up in childhood, we are, you know, being conditioned, for better or for worse, to see the world in a certain way and to experience ourselves in a certain way. So our experiences that we have that are traumatic, or messages that we pick up along the way, such as a common one, I'm not good enough, or there's something wrong with me, or everyone leaves me, if you're rejection, fear of abandonment.

We know those become the lens that we look through. You know, that becomes our narrative, that becomes our self talk, that becomes, you know, a core belief that we have and we carry that we can carry that into we can, and we do carry that into other situations that are decades. I mean, I work with people, you know, mid 30s, 40s, 50s, who are carrying around narratives that they picked up when they were seven and eight years old from a bullying situation, or, you know, a home life that was

neglectful, emotionally abusive, whatever. And that affects, you know, their personality, that affects the the partners that they choose, the friendships that they're able to keep or not keep, to not having those skills. I think that, you know, there's a lot of conversation now around friendships and realizing that they actually do take skills and work, that it's

not just we're friends because we have a common experience. You know, we're actually friends because we work at our communication at the level, you know, at the same with, the same with, with effort that we would also apply to romantic relationships and whatnot. Like there's, there's effort to be put in. It doesn't just happen. And so, yeah, I spill that over into the habits we acquire. You know, how did you see your family system coping with issues. You know, did you see

them? Was there a rule of, we can't talk about that, or we don't talk about that? Was there sweeping under the rug a lot of different things? And then we grow up and we're doing the same thing. We're escaping and numbing and self medicating in the same ways that we saw, you know, our family system or our mom do or whatever, and then we're wondering why we can't break the cycle. Like, to your point, I have the meal plan, I

have the workout plan. Why can I not just do it? And it's like, because there's these other habits and these other ways of thinking that are taking up space. You know, I work with a lot of women around being high achievers. You know, perfectionist high achievers, and they don't realize how that all or nothing. And I'm speaking to myself too, also, by the way, I put myself in front street with this one, is that the all or nothing mentality helps you succeed. It helps you be a

straight A student. It helps you be a star athlete. It helps you start the business and graduate despite unfortunate circumstances and all those things. And it also can be a hindrance to being a beginner at something, to having to try again at something when when things don't go the way that they're supposed to go. And so it's like that, that high standard mentality can help you succeed, but then it also can

keep you from trying with things that are new, you know. So even in the tangibles of starting new relationships or, you know, having new health and wellness goals across the gamut, you can have your standards be so high that you never start or that you come in really feeling very weak or challenged in areas that aren't really the reality. So I help people with understanding. Long story short, I help people with understanding, what are those core beliefs like? What is that narrative that keeps

popping up? I'm not good enough. I'm not good enough here, I'm not good enough there. And we start to like work through that. On the therapy side, we start to work through that. We also might talk about emotional eating, you know, I'm. Eating because I feel like a failure. I'm eating because, you know, I never

learned how to actually cope. Even addictions kind of come from this too, and through and through, you know, working through those things and finding freedom from those things, you can actually pursue healthy environments, healthy people, healthy habits that really just make you generally have a better life, a better quality of life. Dr. Raquel Martin: Can you share more about the relationship

between that and addiction? Because I also know that from your experience, you would be able to talk about living in long term recovery as well. Yeah, yes. So I think that personally, for me, you know, I was speaking to the high achieving, you know, perfectionist mindset. I think that that as a black girl, you know, being living in a predominantly white community, I think there was just a lot of fact, we could do a whole nother

podcast on how that, you know, shapes us. But you know, expectations were high, you know, and I found approval and emotional safety in a way, in in having high expectations of myself and being an excelling and a comfort in that. But as we know, as you get older and more life happens, you start to realize that is not sustainable to be excellent at everything at

all times. That leads to a lot of anxiety, that leads to a lot of fear of things going wrong to the point where maybe you're, you know, sabotaging your own progress, or, you know, whatever the case may be. And a lot of times, that's where those emotions that we're maybe not giving the tools with how to deal with, that's where the vices start to come out. And so my thing was, was alcohol, you know, that was my that was my story. But I also like to let people know that, hey, just

because mom is, you know, people think that I'm the drugs. It's like, No, I'm different than that. I wasn't doing all that. That's that's just they see it as next level, which mine was next level, but it's the theme, it's the purpose, it's the relationship with it. So I don't always speak about addiction, per se. I speak about what's your relationship with that

thing? So your relationship with alcohol, your relationship with food, your relationship with men, your relationship with work, to say that it's not really about the thing at the end. It's more about how you're using it. And that could be extreme where you're, you know, drinking every day, like I was, or that could be something that happens occasionally, but if I'm doing it to avoid hard feeling, my my uncomfortable feelings and hard, hard situations, then it's functioning the same,

functioning the same in that regard. And so helping people to understand, particularly with food, I think that that's one that comes up a lot, because you kind of like for me with with alcohol, I decided that this is no longer serving me. I need to go completely abstinent, and I need to just do away with it. And I've been, God willing, I'll have 10 years sober in December, this coming December. But with food, you have to figure out, you can't not eat for 10 years. You know, you have to figure

out. You have to figure out a better way to cope. And I think that's where the other healthy habits and really unpacking the root of it is so important, because you have to find a different way to relate to the substances and the things that you're engaged in. Again, this could be work too, you know, it could be sex work, gambling across the board. And so that's kind of where the work lies. Dr. Raquel Martin: One, congratulate, congratulations,

and congratulations for December coming up. Two, I think it's great the way you shared it in terms of, like a relationship, because it can be a bunch of different things, right? I find that whether it's substances or whether it's other things, people can use them for a number of reasons, but what it provides you like it can provide you something that stops the bad. It can provide you with something that starts the good. It can

provide you with something that starts anything. Because so many people are walking around numb and completing that assignment, or eating that donut or using that substance just gives them something to feel as someone who eats their food, and I am an emotional person. I love every single aspect of it, like, and being emotional, because I think it's a stray knowing your relationship with food is is important in any way, shape or

form, right? Because it's not about body shaming. It's about sometimes you have to acknowledge is eating the only positive thing in your life. Like, is it? I'm not trying to shame any aspect of your body. If you're healthy, you're healthy, but can you also acknowledge that the only time when you actually feel healthy or feel anything or feel happy is with eating, and that is not okay. What like? What else do I have to look forward to? That's true, yeah. What else

Dr. Raquel Martin: do you have to look forward to? Right? Like I had to learn when I was losing weight, and honestly, I said, as someone who I feel like I gained, I can't remember how much I gained was more than I wanted to anytime I was at the people like, I know it's hard, it's like, yeah, it's hard. But I also enjoyed every pound, like I didn't gain this weight eating salads, okay, like i There are memories you're Dr. Raquel Martin: not. All of their memories connected to

these pounds. But I will be remiss if I didn't state that it was just like, it wasn't the amount. It was like going through high stress environment, going through high stress names and my as soon as my quarters all spiked. I wanted, like, pizza and sweets. It wasn't even the excess. It wasn't like I was eating more. It was everything I was eating was terrible. Like, like, like, I'm just like, well, you know, they say you treat yourself on a Tuesday at 6am girl,

stop. But honestly, but it was because I didn't have any other way to deal with the stress, and I tie that sometimes, with my clients, back to, where did you learn that this was the like they you may have observed that, yeah, like growing up, that this food and having food around meant that we were celebrating, that all was well, it was a whole thing. I felt connected. I was with my family. I was with

my friends. You know, you get all of this nostalgic Association, and even before you get to the coffee that may be mediocre, you know, sometimes they don't make the coffee. Like, you know, you've already romanticized the whole experience, because it ties back to maybe some earlier memories of it actually doing that. And the problem is, is that we have to go back and kind of mitigate, like, is that actually doing what it used to do? Is it really doing exactly? Is it it's

helping? Yes, but what else could help? And so I often don't even tell people that they have to do away with their emotional eating altogether, because that can be a little overwhelming. It's like, okay, wait a minute. I need my I need my treats. I need my I need my little thing. Yeah, it's just about, can we

get you like, five other things? Can we just get you some options to where it's not only that and always that, take the pressure off of that area, and let's pour into hobbies and you know some other, maybe relationships, that can be there. You know, your spirituality, other things, so that all your eggs aren't in that one basket with that's all you have to go to. And sometimes we learn that, you know through experience, that that's what we

do, that's just what we do around here. Same thing with any other substance. It's like we just, we just drank over it. That's just all we ever did. And so that's all I've ever done. Yeah, and it's like there's so many other ways to do it. And then you could still, in a more moderate way, have heavier things without putting your whole life's quality of life in that one thing you know Dr. Raquel Martin: exactly, because it's the excess, right?

It's also the fact that, like, it's easier. Like, no matter what, if I'm in a stressful mood, I know for a fact that a cheese pizza is going right. It's quicker. Like, to me, it's it's there, it's quicker, instead of me just being like, okay, but this is also kind of avoidance, like, why don't we, you know, you process what's frustrating you Why don't you

schedule another session? Like, there are other things that we can do, there are other skills that we can impart, but reaching for the food was just, it's just quicker and then as a result, like, not moving as much, right? So I think a lot of times people reach for that, that that quick hit, because it's just like, well, I don't want to talk about my feelings, and that'll be the case sometimes, sometimes we'll do that. But it's also like the

messages, right? Because the number of times I see these little jokes about mommy juice, and it's like, it's like a jug of wine, and I'm like, Okay, do you think mommy might need less mommy juice if she was in a supportive relationship, if she wasn't married and yet still single parenting, if she didn't have to have everything on her back, or even dad, like dad, but okay,

well, you do? You think maybe he wouldn't need to drink a keg if he was able to talk about his feelings, if you didn't invalidate the way he was feeling about being a parent? You know, like it's just, it's very a lot of times they're just numbing, numbing, yeah, yeah. And it goes all the way into the cult wellness culture and and the way that marketing plays on our weaknesses to have us engaged in things that just keep

us numbed out and not thinking and mindless. You know, because the more mindless we are around food, substances, gambling, you know, all the things. It costs money and resources, and it makes companies millions of dollars, billions of dollars. And so the it's in their best interest to find those nuanced ways that we those there's areas where we where we are vulnerable, and play up to them. And so now mommy juice isn't like, oh, wait, let's talk about why you're drinking. It's a

thing. Now, it's just a thing. You know what? I mean, that's that's just what we do. It's a Dr. Raquel Martin: whole try. It's a whole like thing of the cup, they have customized cups, you know, like little yetis that say this is probably wine on it. Yes, yes. To me, I'm just like, my bells go off. I'm not one of those people, one of those sober people that's just like, really, you know, picky about, you know, I let people do

their thing. You know, I was not successful with moderating. But that does not mean that I am going to impose my lifestyle or whatever on anybody else, but I do sometimes, yeah, you know, it does hit me differently when I see those types of things. Like, that's a sign of problems. Drinking actually, to mask this as or to normalize this in that way. And I see that with a lot of wellness events as well, where they'll pair wine with yoga, or they'll have beer and burpee five Ks, or some, you

know, just like random stuff. And I'm like, That's interesting. Dr. Raquel Martin: I would throw up, and that's what they do. I mean, honestly, if somebody, if somebody, mentions burpee, I'd probably throw up. There are better exercises. There are better exercises. Golly, like, every single time I'm just like, and if my personal trainer is listening, if my old school personal trainer is listening, there are better they're a better exercise, right? Christy gave me modifications like, Hey, I don't

have to do that. Yes, Dr. Raquel Martin: I was given modifications because they're like, oh, they work out these, these body parts. I said, so there's a freaking dead lift. Why am I doing this? I just think, I think when, when everyone decides to be personal trainers, you guys take this. Oh, it's just like, okay, and we've all decided, like, we're gonna lie about the whole burpee thing, right? Like, we're gonna make them think there's no

better exercise, right? Yes, cool, cool. Now we give you your certification. Thank you. You got to admit to this lie. It's a cold trainer on me. It's like, I mean, it does hit a lot of different key areas at once, but Dr. Raquel Martin: I'm fine with doing five separate exercises that will also hit those muscles than that one I don't care. I some days I'm like, I am I can I keep up with the

other trainers? You know? Can I? Because it's intense. Sometimes it's intense with the with the promotion of different things. And I'll say this to you know, the reason why I have settled in on my content and my plans that I have for for my clients, and stuff being simplified is because there's so many other benefits to fitness, and if you having to do burpees is keeping you from getting a workout in that you know that you need, or for whatever you know what I mean, then it's not worth it.

It's not worth it. I'd rather take the burpees out. Okay, let's just take the burpees out if that's going to be a point of contention. Cool. Let's find, let's get you five other moves that you can do separately, and break Dr. Raquel Martin: it down. And I'm cool with that. I wouldn't even care which is a modification for real, like, there's certain things. It's a modification because there are certain things. It's like, okay, I understand this sucks, but I

don't want to do them. But burpees in themselves. I'm just like, Yeah, I'd rather do, I'd rather do plyometrics and then lick the pavement. I truly, I truly can't, and I know Harold was used to just be like, please stop complaining. I will not. I will not, I won't. This does not make sense to me. I will not. I Yeah, it doesn't make sense. I'll be honest with you. I don't mind to get birth

Dr. Raquel Martin: Kristen, exactly. So if anyone you know, once you go to the show notes, and then you get Kristen social media stuff, and you look at her workouts, of course, she doesn't buy worthy. She works out everything. No, okay, I don't, yeah, no. And we are not the same in that fence. We're both clinicians, but I am not a person. We're training like her as well. We don't. We those Venn diagrams do not overlap. We got, we got the the clinician circle that, but that's it. That's, of

course, you don't mind it. I've seen your workouts. I just be like, where's the that's the one, that's the one I'm gonna do the modification. That's right there, right there. Yeah. So what was the modification? Here's, here's what I think too. So I am in this current state in my, you know, capabilities. And I'm a former athlete too, so I just, you know, there's a lot of conditioning there too, you know, oh, my

Dr. Raquel Martin: God. Okay, so that's also messed up. That's not, that's okay, no, that's gonna tell me that you also up your previous athlete too. I was, yeah, I played basketball up through college. Yeah, that's a part of the situation. So it's scratching the old itch. Sometimes, you know, you get raised a certain way and you just enjoy certain things. It's the thing. It's literally a thing.

Dr. Raquel Martin: I think I honestly am of the mindset that once an athlete, always an athlete, just simply because we did some interviews with like individual sports psychologists, like the person who's the head of NB WNBA, or NBA, mind health and things like that. And the mindset is very different, yes. So I personally think once an athlete, always an athlete, because the mindset that you have to have to do that I

worked. I said I was at a military school for a minute, and one of the guys was, like, once a Marine, always a Marine, because you have to have that kind of mindset. I kind of think the same thing for an athlete. So like, I don't believe in, like, oh, I used to be an athlete. No, you're still an athlete. Like, the mindset with that is different, yeah? So when I say former athlete, I'm like, you're actually talking you're calling it out, yeah?

Definitely a mindset. It's definitely a mindset, yeah, gosh, there's so many things that come with that. Because a part of my just to pull back in my personal story, a part of some of my escapism and numbing and self medicating was around having to experience no longer being that, I guess we could say an active I don't know whenever my basketball career was over with, I think active, yeah, maybe active.

That happen, you know? It's like, wow, this is like, a whole mentality that I've built in, a whole lifestyle that I've lived that is no longer like after that final buzzer is just over with, you know, and and so, yeah, there are some things that follow that that you just keep, I mean, you just always have. You know what it's like to push to a certain threshold. You know what it's like to win something that you have really put in a lot of time and effort over years, even, you know, at least

the season, but over years. And so if you don't have that, and I'm speaking to the benefits of it, if you don't have that mentality, it can be hard to stick with something long term and see the longevity as being the goal. But when you have that of, like, I started this in ninth grade, and this built up to a scholarship, and then that built up to a championship all the way at, you know, age 20 in college, you can kind of see the benefit of sticking with something and working with it

and being patient over time. I think that's, you know, a great a great skill to have. It can also be hard to come back into a sense of normalcy with some of that. Like, everything is not, you know, everything doesn't have to be, you know, extreme. You know, giving your 100% looks different on different days. There's not always something to win. Sometimes you're just doing something, just to do it. And where else is your identity. Where else you find community? And those are some things I

struggled with. You know, coming out of my college career was like, who am I? Okay, where are my teammates? What are we doing after class? Like, oh, I'm having to, like, figure that out, or even an injury. I don't know what to do with myself when my my leg won't let me do what I normally do. You know, Monday

through Friday, yeah. So anyway, that led to, I think that's a struggle that a lot of athletes have, but typically, we find our way into fitness in some realm, and we scratch our itch in that way. The last thing I'll say, though, is that, you know, we're all getting older, you know, and so my personal goal is to have a long life of recovery and staying sober and fitness is a part of that. Having an outlet moving my body, helps my mental health and my anxiety, and particularly so it that is the

heart. That is why you guys see me show up, and that's why the workouts don't always have to look a certain way, because the point is taking care of your body. We don't have to do the burpees. Like, okay, okay, cool. We need, yeah, it's cool. It's cool. We can. Let's get your upper body strength so that when you're 70 you can still lift yourself up off of the chair. Like, let's do and those are long term, you know, life long longevity goals. And so that's the heart behind the content

that I want to put out. I don't want to scare people away from something that's ultimately good for them. I don't want them to feel like they have to live the life of being an athlete since age five in order to, you know, do some of the things that I do and the workouts that I do on my page, I actually do do those. It's just heavier weight. You know, I'm saying it's like, you see me with the bicep curl, with the dumbbells. It's the same

thing. If I were to get heavier weights at the gym, or you see me do a squat at home in a workout, it's the same thing. And so I think sometimes people think that they have to be me or be a trainer in order to do those moves, and I just don't like playing into that, you know, I want this to work, and

it should be able to work for everybody. And so that's why I try to keep things simple and make it as accessible as possible, because I don't want people to think they have to be like me in order to move their bodies, or like you need a

trainer, you know. So Dr. Raquel Martin: I love that, and I love like the you offer so many different things when it comes to services and resources, and I would say, and like, roles that serve the whole body, right, like, so I think it's like the epitome of whole well being, right? Because you are a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, you also offer coaching. You're also a personal

trainer. I love that, because I often state that, like, you know, therapy isn't the only path to healing, but no matter what path you take, that's going to be paved with community. And I feel as though, when you mentioned, like, going through that difficult time, and you're just like, I needed to find my community that's very real, because that can be a huge hit, right? Like, because, yeah, you know, you might not need therapy, but you do need community, and so mom, are not

meant to isolate. Can you talk more about your coaching services too? Because we talked about the personal training, marriage of therapy. We played family therapist. When you're doing coaching, what are you focusing on? Yeah, so my coaching program, particularly my be well, coaching program, which I do enrollment periods for. If anybody's interested in that, I would just suggest that they go to my website, be three by kristen.com backslash be well.

If you just go to be three by kristen.com you'll get to everything, but backslash be well, will send you straight to my, my primary coaching program. And so what I do is exactly what we've talked about today, is we pull back the layers and keep things very simple with the goals that we set. There is a understanding of the mental health component. There's some psychological. That happens. It's not therapy. I want to be clear about that. It's not a therapy group. It's not, I'm not

in my therapist. We're not going to just, you know, process and open up the emotions and sit with them and that sort of thing in the program. But there is going to be education around how you got to where you are, mind, body and spirit, you know. So we're going to unpack some things in a coaching way. There's exercises, worksheets, that sort of thing, that kind of help guide you as you are setting goals for moving

forward. So it's kind of like a bit of understanding, again, like an educational type of format with homework and worksheets and self reflection. And then we're also setting goals for what's your movement goal. We do a movement goal. We do a nutrition goal, which could be as much as just drinking 64 ounces of water. I don't provide meal plans, because a lot of the women that I'm working with have done a lot of yo yo dieting. They're, you know, most of the women are 35 and up. They've had

a few kids. They live a little life. They've done Weight Watchers. They've done keto twice. They've done intermittent fasting five times. They've been trying to their their hormones are, you know, imbalanced. Their metabolism is all over because they've been doing too much trying to reach a body goal instead of really being well in their being, you know. And so that's what this program is about. So we explore all of

that. We talk about body image. We talk about messages from your family around who you are, you know, and how your narrative kind of shapes what you think you can do or what you expect yourself to do. And a lot of, you know, in a lot of goal setting ways, we talk about, you know, just negative self talk in general, in that regard, and through that process, I think

it's, it's kind of a, it's a great jump start. It's not, I don't sell people on and then after my eight week program, you're going to be able to go and just be, it's like, it's a framework. And then from there, I work with clients continually. That program, there's frequent, you know, coaching calls, and it's really, it's like, a course, you know. And then after that, they funnel into my accountability coaching program

where it's about doing the work. And so sometimes I have clients that have done the be well program in its in its original form, and they hop into the accountability group where we set monthly goals. We meet on a monthly basis. I check in with them. We do change their program. They set goals, and we just continue working. And they'll maybe six months, eight

months later, they'll be like, You know what? That one module that we did on body image, something else came up for me about why I see my body the way I do, or why I've always struggled with and so it's like, through living life and just staying consistent, because we're not doing crazy extremes, they're actually able to get to that breakthrough moment that usually causes them to go back to what feels comfortable, which is how they were doing things. And so that's that's the nature

of the program. Again, it's educational in nature, but it's also definitely execution based in setting goals and actually moving forward.

Dr. Raquel Martin: What would you say, and I'll end on this, what would you say are the biggest differences between a patient that you're doing coaching services with versus someone who you're doing therapy services with, because I try to clarify online all the time that there are, there's a difference between coaching and therapy, and There are many clinicians

who provide both services. I even remember doing a post about like you've probably unless you're watching couples therapy on TV, you've probably never seen a therapy session on TV. Cycle education, it is so good. I love that show. Clinicians love that show. I have not met a clinician who did not love that show because it's like, okay, like, do I need to get my notepad out? Like, she does such a good job. Okay, yeah, sorry sidebar,

Dr. Raquel Martin: but she really does. But, but what like from if you have a patient and they're struggling with some behavior, what would it look like for coaching versus what would it look like in therapy? Because a lot of clinicians do coaching too, like because we understand the utility of it. I think there's this misconception that, like, oh, we you know, the therapy is better. No, I don't. I don't know a clinician, a good one, at least, who doesn't also understand the utility of

coaches? Yes, we are not fighting right now, there's there's room for both, for sure, just as long as everybody is managing what they have the capacity to do, you know, and their scope of practice, I think that's the key. It's not like it's both. Both sides are necessary. So for me, I think with therapy, I think, and again, you know, things overlap, you know, in in intention. But with therapy, I think about it being more experiential and

unpacking that's happening. There are many times that I'm with the therapist, and this, again, kind of depends on your therapeutic approach, because you have solution based therapists that do a lot more of that. Okay, let's get into action that maybe feels like coaching a. Little bit more. But in my process, it's a it's a slower, it's a slower process. And there's not necessarily anything you need to do with

what you're uncovering. I in my in my approach. So we're experiencing things, we're unpacking things, we're remembering things, we're crying, we're releasing. And by way of doing that, yes, there's going to be change, there's going to be freedom, there's going to be different. To be different perspective. But I'm not, at the end of the session like, okay, so what does that look like this week? Okay, what are you executing? What are you You know, what I'm saying, What?

What tangibles Are you going to take action on? What's your plan to be healed? It's kind of just like a growth process, you know? That happens. And again, that's just my approach to therapy. Different people have different, different approaches. And so with coaching, it is more about action based steps and

execution, you know. So we may go into unpacking what had happened was with I got overwhelmed, and I didn't set the boundaries that I needed to. So I didn't get to the gym the way I had planned to, and then all the meal prep we can talk about that we can even, you know, go into what the cycle of of behavior is habit, you know, what's the habit? What happened? What did you What did it cause you to do? But ultimately, we're back to Okay. And the goal this week is, you know, we're going

straight back into execution, action, moving forward. And so sometimes, if I find the clients having a hard time kind of doing that, it doesn't have to be extreme action. Just has to be, you know, moving towards something. If you do that too soon, it can kind of make people feel like a failure, like

they're not good enough. When I start to hear that, that's when I think, even my coaching clients, I'll tell them, You know what, I wonder if therapy would be a great compliment for what we're doing here, so you can feel like you have the support of both. I literally will tell them that, and most of my client my accountability, you know, be well coaching clients have a therapist. I don't feel threatened by it at all. I'm

like, yes, yes, unpack, unpack. Because when we have this coaching call on this Monday, we're gonna, I'm gonna hope that they're a little freer, so that they can take a step with us in this group. And if that's holding them back, let them unpack it all month long, and then we can come back in. And so that's what I would say, experiencing sitting with unpacking for therapy, and then action and execution, more more focused in that way, with coaching. Thank

Dr. Raquel Martin: you. And I'm gonna end on one more thing, as someone who focuses on like marriage and family therapy and couples and talking about like relationship with themselves and the way it helps with their relationship with others. Do you have any I don't know if I say recommendations, but like it seems, I feel like the conversation about couples has been happening way more lately. And maybe it's not more. Maybe it's just like the access to everyone having podcasts and

stuff like that is more. Is there anything that you feel as though people should look for and a partner when it comes to like, a healthier relationship, like a sign that this is a healthier relationship? Because I think a lot of people are also coming out of tough relationships, and they may not know how to recognize something that is better for them and their well

being. Yeah, I think without, I think what happens in social media is that people are trying to, like, pick apart different behaviors and different things to say, this is what qualifies. This is what doesn't qualify. And although there are some, you know, principles to that, I think that for me as a marriage and family therapist and the therapist in general, the more you know, the more you realize we're very complex people, and we've all been through something, nobody's

going to be perfect. Everybody's got their family. I always picture Everybody's got their own family, genogram that's following them around with all their stuff, the things that they come to the table with. And so what I in addition to some red flags, maybe yellow flags, we call them, instead of just seeing it as a hard No, it could be, I need to ask more questions about that. I need to get clarity about that. I need to see what they're doing about that. I think committee, the

approach to what you're seeing could be a little different. I think we're a little trigger happy in social media, where it's just like, if that, if that's if I see that it's over with, I can't handle this. I can't do that. As opposed to, hmm, I enjoy this person. Can I set some boundaries so that they're not, you know, so that we are both, remain safe, but also learning more about how they got to be, how they are, and then also, what is their posture in doing something about

it? Are they aware that they tend to, you know, do this or do that? Are they willing to go and get help with it? Are they exploring change? Do they want change? I think that's more of a green flag to be, rather than the stuff they actually bring you know what I'm saying? It's like, okay, yes, everybody's probably been through some sort of trauma. So we could just check that off. If you need to see somebody who's trauma free, then you're probably not going to find anybody, you know, but,

but you can say, and what have they been doing about it? You know what I'm saying, and what work are they actively doing to. Heal from it, and if they do have a misstep in some way, that's not a deal breaker. But still, you know, off putting, do they ask? Do they make amends? Do they say, Hey, I messed up? Do they take accountability? You know, those are the things that I try to help people use as a framework, rather than trying to rule in or rule out based off of like characteristics and

behaviors and life. If that makes sense, it Dr. Raquel Martin: makes perfect sense, because the best apology is accountability and change behavior, right? Taking someone to the store isn't apologizing, buying them a bag is not apologizing, getting them a Roblox card is not apologizing. Apologizing, is apologizing, and doing that with change behavior that's Well, thank Dr. Raquel Martin: you so much. Tell the people where they can find you and all of your amazingness. Are you accepting clients

right now? Yes and no, I would say, just, just reach out to me on my website, for for therapy, for therapy. I'm kind of, you know, October, going into the holidays, can be kind of a point where it's a lot of inquiries coming in, but it's games. But I'll never say, don't, yeah, I've never, never reach out to me. You know, you never know what the timing is. Actually, just had somebody that we reconnected after several weeks of not being able to sync up, and the timing is right now.

So am I accepting clients right now? Maybe, depending on when you hear this, but, you know, reach out to me anyway and connect, and I can keep you in mind for future situations that you know I may be able to work with you, as far as just reach me in general, A, b3, by kristen.com is my website. That is where you will find all the things I do. Like to let people know I'm either your therapist or I'm your coach. I cannot be both. So just keep that in mind when you're reaching out to

begin your work. Just kind of understanding like we said, you want the mentor, you want the psychologist? Like you got to decide. So, but you can find the resources to everything there be. Well, we'll be back open for enrollment in early 2025 like a spring enrollment. So if you're interested in that, I would suggest becoming a subscriber on my website, so that you see when

those updates come about, the enrollment. Go ahead and get your name on the list for that, and then Instagram is my name at Kristen theapster, you can find everything link in the bio, all the workouts that Dr Raquel likes. You can find all that good stuff there. And I also have a beginner style focused programs for workouts. And that's just something that I just like to always have, because I understand that you don't always need the extreme weight loss plan. Some people

just need something simple three times a week. And so those are the types of programs I provide, but you can find that on Instagram or on my website, perfect. Dr. Raquel Martin: Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. All of the information will also be in the show notes.

You guys know, we always include the links in the show notes too, because, you know, at this point, some of y'all just got to work, and y'all over here doing your breathing exercises before you get to work, or your child and walked in and started screaming for snacks during the last part of it. So I always put all the information in the show notes too. And as always, remember to be kind to yourself. Two steps forward and one step

back is still one step forward. That is just math. And have a good rest of your day.