Integrating Therapy and Faith in the Congregation Ft Bishop Joseph Walker

mental well being, particularly within the black community. Hey, everyone, just a reminder that mind, your mental is not just a podcast, it is also a amazing community. If I do say so myself, it's phenomenal. You get more access to me. What more could you want in this life? So if you want to join the community, if you're not already on the community, go to my social media. My social media is the same Raquel Martin, PhD, and DM me the word community, so you can get details on joining this

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I think it is central to our experience. I think that historically, I'm very aware of a lot of the stigmas associated with mental health and addressing it, but I believe that it has always existed, even in Bible days, and exist now more than ever, particularly a lot of what we are seeing in our communities, and what we've seen during the pandemic, exacerbation of mental health issues and etc, the church has really had to pivot to address those issues and help people

navigate that. So I think there's a great intersection between that faith and mental health, spirituality. Mental health is something that I'm very much locked in on as a faith leader, Dr. Raquel Martin: and I love that. Why? Why do you feel as though there is so much stigma when it comes to mental health?

Because I will say, just as someone who has attended to church, I had never felt that there was this distinction of you can have faith or you can have mental health like that was never been the case, but there are some places where it's like that. Why do you think there's some kind of confusion or stigma about having both within your life to have appropriate well being well? I think it comes out of, I think erroneous

theological positioning and posturing and teaching. I think that a lot of folks have associated getting therapy, working through that as a lack of faith. So we use our faith. We've weaponized our faith to a degree to say, I'm just going to believe God for this, or I'm not going to accept this, I'm not

going to claim this, I'm not going to whatever. But in fact, we don't realize that Jesus really was an incredible therapist, and he helped people walk through their own situations and several instances of Scripture, we see it played out, but I do think it takes a great deal of intentionality to see that and and I've written about it, talked about it, and I think that people have a fear of one. I think the social stigma of seeing that there. Therapist has been well, you crazy or

something wrong with you? That's that's in our community, big, but in the church world, it's well, you don't have faith. And that works not only just in therapy, but it works also in medicine. People don't want to take their medicine because,

well, I'm just believing God. So it's like helping people understand that God has these incredible people of faith in these areas who can help you steward your way through these difficult terrains of life, and so I'm giving you the word, and they're walking that word out with you and your own human experience every single day. Yes, I Dr. Raquel Martin: agree. Can I tell you an incredibly horny joke that I bet you you've already heard, but it's one that

I use. It's one that I use when individuals state that they're like, Oh, I understand. I'm struggling with this, but I'm gonna go to church. I don't need both, right? It's a it's a very corny joke, but I'm a very corny joke person, and you probably already heard it. Okay, so there is, and I will legit tell this every single time someone tells me that I'm like, right? Let me tell you a little joke, and you tell me if this resonates with you. So there it was raining, right? And it was about to

flood, right? And so this guy is waiting outside his house. And have you heard this one? Go ahead, you have okay. So a guy, a guy is waiting outside his house, and they send like a ambulance, something like, Oh, let me, let me take you away from this area because it's about to flood. And he said, No, God's got me, right? So it goes all the way up to, like the the front steps, and they send like a boat, because you can't even walk anymore. And you're like, come on. Like, come on, let's

get you to say things off. God's got me so it keeps going up, and he goes to the roof, and a helicopter comes, and he's no, God's got me so then it floods, and the the man passes away, and he goes to heaven, and he's got what? What happened? I thought you had me. He said, I sent you a and blessed. I sent you a boat. I sent you a helicopter. You clearly wanted to meet me. And I always say, I always say, we have psychiatrists, we have psychologists, we have counselors, we have clinical

social workers. You believe in God, don't you believe that he sent me here to help you? Like, what? Where do you think I came from? Like, where I just I didn't just create myself? This is, oh God, right. And I always say, so Can I schedule you for a session? Or what are we? What are we thinking like when it

comes down to it? And I always say, if you are going to the same way, I feel like many people talk about physical health, if you are going to honor the body that God gave you by taking care of your body, you also need to take care of your mind. And they're hand in hand on if it's about faith and spirituality and honoring the God who put you on this earth. That also comes with going to therapy and and not seeing it as

like a weapon. Sometimes people throw it like you need therapy, but I always say, if you deserve a space where you are prioritized, where you are centered, because we live in such a busy world, it's so hard to slow down like it's hard to rethink about what happens or even process it in the moment. And that's what therapy does for you. And I would say, if you're you're honoring your body to God, you need to take care of the body he gave you, correct? Okay,

particularly, you're right. And I think in the faith community, as with all things in the faith community, starts with the leadership, and it starts with leaders really making it a priority. And one of the things that I'm very proud of is that we have given our staff, for example, what we call Selah, and it's, it's three or four days every quarter. It doesn't, you

know, affect their their paid time off. It's like, you take three days, shut down, go to therapists, go to the mountains, take a mental health break, all of this stuff that's happening, and other churches around the country are recognized the need to give our teams these selahs, these retreats, these moments to go and talk to somebody, go and reflect. And I think it's so important. I think how we how we teach, how we preach, how we integrate. I always tell my Zion. I approach scripture from

a theological, psychological, sociological perspective. I'm trying to look at what what is happening in the sociological community. How is it affecting that person's mind, and what is God saying about it all? And I think by addressing it that way, helps people then tap into Wow, okay, I understand that, that I never see the woman with the issue of blood the same way I understand the trauma she must have experienced in isolation, the trauma of what she might have experienced just to pull

herself together, to get to Jesus. And Jesus did not just heal her. He said, Your faith made you whole, and that is the ultimate goal. Here to religion can heal you, if you in a sense, but it's really the therapist and the and the marriage between the two that can make a person whole. So I Dr. Raquel Martin: love that the marriage, yeah, who else do what you do? Like, I love the fact you mentioned the marriage

between the two can make individuals whole. And it sounds like when it comes to stigma within mental health, you're able to address it head on by stating, often, like, these are things that we look into. Are there any other ways that you feel as though is helpful, or that your church does to address stigmas when it comes to mental health and also support those

who are seeking help? Yeah, yeah. So obviously we have actually, in the month of May every year, our entire deeper dive Bible study is dedicated to mental health, so folks can go on to. Outside Nashville, and look at and it's always going to live there. And we every single Wednesday Bible study, we have therapists on teaching about various aspects of mental health, walking through grief, walking through trauma, and our pastor of congregational care is

doing those conversations. And it's a powerful we get five weeks just on mental health teaching and Bible study. We have also, through church fit, which is our health and wellness program my wife leads, that we have mental health Mondays. We have resources to provide for the congregation on resources to tap into. Shameless plug, I've written a book restored at the root, and this book is about getting to the source of emotional, spiritual struggle. And I, God spoke to me once, and

I was working on the sermon about this. And I say that to say they use this as small groups. I worked. I worked on the sermon about man Jesus meets in the tombs. And the Bible says that Jesus needs to be cutting himself, and he's, he's out there harming himself, harming himself. He has a demon, and Jesus walks up to him and says, What is your name? And it was there that God spoke to me and says, This is what therapy starts. I said, Well, hold on, God. Later, I just want to

preach about you healing and what is your name. And Jesus, nobody had ever asked in his name, Doctor Raquel. Everybody looked at his condition. And when Jesus asked him his name, you know what he says, We are Legion. We are many, and there in lies the issue. We are easily judging and diagnosing what we see at the surface. But there are layers of Legion that is

contributing to certain behaviors. And I was suggesting to the congregation that when you see a person acting out a particular way, if you take time and help them walk through therapy and do the real root work, you might discover that the reason why this person is acting out at 18, or the child is acting out at 16. Because maybe you should go back to when they were six. Maybe if you go back to the experiences and recognize it's not just one demon we're addressing. We're

addressing multiple. And I say this is what happens in dysfunctional church, while you have people at the altar every Sunday, didn't I just pray for you and your back? Because what keeps showing up is a different manifestation of Legion. Yeah. So I could cast out alcoholism, but I did not cast out abandonment. I did not deal with the rejection, I did not deal with the abuse. And so that's why having me to pray for you and then get you up off of your face and say, now go talk to

this person. Is what helps, because what you do is get to the root work. And people don't want the root work is the hard work. Lay your hands on me, Pastor, let me that's the easy part. But when you get up, I need you to go and talk to Doctor Raquel. So Dr. Raquel Martin: you know, you I often say, like, people mention, like, coping skills, right? And they'll be like, Oh, I'll do the breathing exercises and the stuff. And I'm just like, I want you to understand that you're just waving at

branches at this point. You understand it'll help you in the moment. But just like you mentioned, well, I was at the pulpit last Sunday. I did see you there for the sake. So what's what's happening? It's because it's the root work is it's, it's, it's tough. I just did a post the other day about, like, when it comes to therapy, good therapy, you should think about it like a washing machine, like it's supposed to agitate, like it's supposed to it brings up these things that you didn't

even acknowledge. And I'll say to my patients, I'm like, You came here for one thing. Spoiler alert, I guarantee you we gonna come up with three or four more things, and that's because this brings up stuff that you didn't know you needed to do. But the branch work that's easy, teaching someone a couple coping skills and them using it, that's fantastic. That's a branch, though. The root is we need to get to the source of why every single time we have these concerns regarding the

relationships. Or do you get to this place of a of a good relationship? There's some aspect of self sabotage. Where does that come from? Like, where? Where does it come from that you feel unworthy because these scenarios, I'm honest with you, you sabotage this relationship. We were good last week, and this week you said, Well, I had to move out. What? So we need to get to the root of, okay, like we've been working together for a year, and this is relationship three, and

I'm be honest with you, you may not see the pattern. I do. There's something that's going on and it's a root thing, and the coping skills and the breathing that's not going to get to why, and some, in some aspect, you feel unworthy of this relationship and they're sabotaging. So it does have to go hand in hand. I find that. I find that, like you, I don't see many churches having an issue with this thus far, like at all.

I think that we've gotten to a place where people are getting more comfortable discussing therapy, especially I teach at tsu, when I tell you this dude, it's like a normal it could be like, Oh, I had a soda, went to therapy. Let me. Tell you what my therapist said, and I'm like, wow, this is not, no, not at Dr. Raquel Martin: all. And they'll be very open, yeah, my therapist, that's amazing. That's amazing. Yeah, yeah, Main Street becoming mainstream. It's become

mainstream. And I think, also, I think you're seeing a lot of leaders. That is the one that I have any influence over. I teach you all time, like you have to address a look at I have a group of folks, for example, that I take on this retreat, and we study scripture, and we like, these are pastors. And I like, okay, look at this text. Tell what you see. Look at a text and say, I want, I want you to see the psychological and theological. Let's deal with that. So why? Because it's

psychological. I said because this is a therapy issue. And we look at Scripture that way, it just comes alive. So we look at this text one day and Jesus sees his father, who brings his son to Jesus to the disciples, and says, I took my son to your disciples, and they could not help him, because he throws himself on the ground, boggling bones at the mouth, he's pencied All this stuff, right? That's a clear case study to somebody

like you, right? Because, Jesus, no, Jesus, then the father says, I have brought him to you because your disciples could not, meaning your church could not help him. So Jesus, what will you do? So Jesus, then, is like giving a case study on how to address a situation like this trauma. And guess what? Jesus says, He raises a question, just like he did with the man of the tombs. He says, How long has he been like this? And the father

is forced to be accountable and say, since he was a child. And after the father says that, then the father says, If you can do anything, have mercy on us. Because the fact that he said it with his mouth, that it's been this way since he's a child, he took ownership that perhaps what is wrong with my son is what's wrong with me. So I initially was bringing my son to you, but we both need your help. Dr. Raquel Martin: And you know what? That's how a lot of family

sessions go. Like, a lot of times I had scenarios when I was in training and we would have supposed to be doing like a like a child session, and they'd be like, Oh, here's my child. I'll be back in 50 minutes. And I said, like, I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's that's not it. Oh, hey, yeah, I mentioned the whole aspect of, if you bring a child to therapy, surprise, like it, it has to be that sense, because if you're their most salient relationship, right? Like when it comes to

caregivers, you're their most salient relationship. And it's like, when I'm working with patients, and they're like, I'll never forget, I had a couple of sessions where it was family therapy, but it was a mom and the grandmom and the child, because that was the other caregiver in the home. They resided with the with the grandma. And first, we just started off with the mom and she we mentioned stuff to go by and things to work together. And they were like, Oh, I tried to

do this, but my mom didn't want to do it. Or I would try to do this, and I was trying to convince my mom, and she said to do it this way. And I'm like, Well, you you have to acknowledge the fact that your mom is a salient caregiver as well. So if this is going to work, your mom has to be this has been your mom is, your mom is involved in this session too,

because she's a salient caregiver. And if she How is she expected to try new strategies, if she doesn't even understand where they're coming from, how is she expected to contribute to the growth of this child and as a result of this family, if you're not bringing her to session like, this is her, this is her session too. And she's just, well, I just thought it would just be me, and I'm like, it seems like this, you guys are a whole entire unit. And what I explained to them when they came

to session as you guys are co parenting. And I know very much it seems like co parenting is typically, which is solely the the parents of the child, but I'm like, You're a salient caregiver. You were co you're you're co parenting with your with your mother. That's what it is. So to not have her in session, it's not gonna it's not gonna work. What happens to the child will impact the relationship that the child has with themselves, with the teachers, with their grandma,

with their mom. And to get to the real root, you have to think of, you think of roots, and you think of lineage too. This is a family affair. It's a family like it's a family affair. You had to bring it in, and it has so much more progress. And I love the fact that you, I'll be honest, I've never heard I live in you anyone tie in the aspect of theology and psychology, and it's very evident that it's if it's immersed in you, it's immersed in your entire church home. And I feel like that that

is amazing. If you if, what advice would you give for individuals who haven't integrated it this way in their church homes? Like, how can these partnerships be formed? Or, if they're there and they're not being utilized appropriately, how can these partnerships and collaborations between mental health professionals and spiritual leaders be strengthened so that you're you're giving a strong bedrock of your your church?

Yeah, I think, I think, I think first of all, you would have to develop a culture within your congregation of teaching it

and and having more. Despite being aware of when mental health awareness month are highlighting those things and resources, and making your church aware that you are a trusted partner in the community, and letting partners know, therapists know, you probably have folks in your congregation who are full time therapists, people who do this work every single day, Andrew as well, and maybe creating a database, creating an opportunity that we've done in

our ministry, greatly broken it down, where people could actually go in online and figure out various resources and things of that nature, and find out what people are doing. And there are organizations and individuals and things like, for example, I was very honest many years ago after going through the trauma of the death of a spouse, and I talked about how guilders club walk me through that. And I was, you know, I didn't go. There's pastor Walker with this Joseph and how those

folks nurtured me through in group counseling. There's a variety of different organizations that are doing great work, and you have to expose your congregation of those things so that the burden doesn't just fall on you alone, being a trusted partner. And I think really looking at how to approach scripture and teaching differently, because I think it just, it's so much content in Scripture for me that I just every everything I look at, I'm always like, eager to get to

what is happening in the psyche of this person. How does God reconcile? How does God it's easy to say, you know that Moses is dead and Joshua, take these people, but you're going to deal with the trauma of the grief of people that knew Moses. You're going to deal with when one season is over, deal with the cacophony that's exemplified with the scripture you couldn't tell the voice of those who rejoicing and those who are weeping. That's this. You have a lot of that happening in our

congregation right now. People right now, in this cacophony about what's happening in culture, people are excited about maybe what might be happening in their personal lives and what's happening. And you got all these social issues, people nervous about the selection and all these different things. So you'll know who's shouting because they happy, who shout because they're nervous. You don't really know,

how do you delineate that and allow people? And I think it, I think one of the things that I think that is has really blessed me one, one moment, God woke me up like two in the morning, right? And really had me in my face, praying for not just my congregation, before the community, and really shared with me that the community at the time in which this happened

was in communal lament. And it was, it was a moment I never thought about communal lament, like all the different things that were going on at that time, between covid, between what we saw with social justice stuff, and it was like you're going to have to allow people space to mourn, to walk through this, and we amplified our resources in that season to help provide opportunities for people to to grieve and to lament, and you have to acknowledge that you just can't keep going on saying

the Lord's going to make a way. Lord's going to make a way, he's going to make a way. But I gotta get to the way first. So, Dr. Raquel Martin: yeah, what you're talking about is something that often comes up when it comes in mental health, and it's spiritual bypassing, which is the thought process of the use of spiritual practices and beliefs to avoid dealing with painful feelings or unresolved wounds or even developmental needs, using your spirituality to escape from

facing emotional and psychological issues. Because even when you mentioned, like, God's gonna make a way, you said it very good. Well, you gotta make your way. Not gonna you're gonna just be like, Oh, here you go. I'm gonna shine a light on this. And like that happens so often. What do you How would you identify if someone were listening to this? What would you say are like, some signs where, if you were talking to someone and you'd be like, it seems to me that you are using

your spirituality to try to sidestep dealing with this. What were some signs that you would see? I love that. I love that. And of course, Dr Anita Phillips, in her book, deals with that head on right and this idea, and I would say to them, what she says, it's okay to let the water flow. Why are we? Why are we trying to just bypass this moment? Pause, Stop, stop with it. I and it really. I deal with it because I'm a bishop, and so therefore, as a bishop,

you pass the pastors. So you'd be amazed at how many pastors are programmed to just say, You know what, this is happening, that's happening, but you know what, man, guys, I'm just going to trust God like I pause, yeah. Let's just pause. Let's just let this flow. You are clogging up the garden. Let's, let's, it's

okay, you don't have to bypass this. And I think often the reason why we bypass it's because one, we try to appear a Herculean in our faith that we are, two, because we are concerned about the perception of people viewing us as weak and vulnerable. And three, we don't have any places we can be vulnerable and be trusted with that. But I think that that's why it's important to just. Us from the top, create a culture and a climate by which people could say it's okay to It's

okay. You don't have to, like, Be the hero. And I've said it every funeral. I say this is the family. It's okay to grieve. You don't have to be the hero. I know you want to be the rock for everybody and be strong. And people tell you you'll get over no own this moment. Job went his mantle. Job cried out to God when he lost all his children. Job grieved. And grief is a process. David did not run through the valley. He walked through Dr. Raquel Martin: the valley. And you know what makes me think

about that? I always feel as though there are sometimes when people feel like grief, as they may feel, not the pain or the feelings associated with that, or the possible questioning they may feel shame or guilt with that, making it feel as though, like they're they don't have their faith in God, and I think that's why some people run away from it, because it's just well, does this mean that I'm not close? I'm not close enough. Am

I not doing what I should be doing? Faith wise, and I'm always when it came to like, my faith and my spirituality, I've always come at it from both ends of spirituality and religion and also the intellectual aspects. And I remember having a conversation with someone and they mentioned like me being so inquisitive. And they were like, that's not really, you can't really question anything. I said, Oh, I wholeheartedly disagree, because you, I think my faith is stronger because I

read and do all this and question and still believe. And you, on the other end, you feel as though your faith is stronger because you haven't you're too afraid to test it. I was like, I wholeheartedly disagree, because I very much believe that being educated and having the questions and getting the answers to the questions and still having the faith, that is faith, not the aspect of I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna question

anything. Well, don't, don't you think that the fact that I do love science and look at everything and still have my faith is that not a testament to how strong my faith is there's nothing wrong with being inquisitive, and I think people during significant aspects of pain and grief maybe they ran away from because I don't want to question what happened. I don't want to feel too bad, because I don't want it to seem

as though I don't believe in God. And I always think that, like my inquisitiveness, my persistence, me being a huge nerd, if anything, that strengthens my faith, because I can read everything and be like, yep, still believe. Look at all the everything and be like, yeah, the faith is still there. It's still there. Like it doesn't. If anything, I've always stated that that makes me my faith is stronger because it's just I was blessed enough to be given this brain and to be

given this inquisitiveness. And every single time I'm like, Who do you think gave this? Every time people say that I'm like, where do you think this comes from? Okay, there was an idea of me before my parents were even here. I know where this comes from. I use it. I use it well. I use the gifts that are given to me. That's my brain. And if my faith is still there, transformed by the redoing of it, don't exactly so, yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Raquel Martin: I very much encourage people. I think sometimes they feel like the weakness will be like, am I questioning the Lord? And just, I don't think God ever said don't do that. It's just like, Yeah, take time with it. Do you have any specific advice that you would give to someone who is struggling but they may be hesitant to seek both spiritual

and professional help? What would you say to those individuals, because I'm sure they're just like you mentioned when you mentioned community lamenting, it's just a difficult time, I very Yeah, I would be. I don't think it's possible for me not to find anyone who is isn't struggling with anything because it's such a difficult time. What would you say to individuals who are struggling and they're still hesitant to seek both spiritual and professional help. Yeah,

I would say it's not an unfamiliar place. You're not by yourself. If you feel that way, there are a lot of people that have that struggle. I think it's moments like this. If you're listening to this, you realize that here you have before you a faith leader, you have a therapist who work together in tandem, to say that there are there are faith communities that will not judge you, that have created safe spaces for you to work out your questions with God, that we're not intimidated

because you have questions. I have questions with God. I've experienced trauma. It's created empathy for me, for people who along their journey. And so I think that whatever you are in life, whatever your status, whatever you're dealing with, it's important that you don't deal with it by yourself. You would never intended to do life alone, but in community, and

that's where the faith community comes. But then please know that our strong recommendation that we have to give you the foundational principles of God's Word, which we believe are

powerful and organic and help you to move in faith. Faith without works is dead, and the work is doing the real work every single day of talking to a therapist to walk through it is something that you will be encouraged to do, and I think it's courageous of you to do it, because it allows you to say, Hey, I am working on me, and it's okay to have a. Cessation of all the work and do all the things. I'll put it to you like this, my car, one day was out of alignment, and I was trying to

drive it, but it kept pulling. It kept pulling until I realized I had to go get an alignment. And sometimes in life, you can be trying to get to your destination, and you can feel that poor, like I'm not myself, I'm not in alignment. And what I had to do is realize I had to stop the car, take it to a mechanic, walk away from it, let them jack it up, let them change out the tires. You cannot drive a car and get it aligned at the

same time. And there's a moment you gotta step away and say, I gotta stop all this rat race, and I have to make certain that I let somebody else bring some alignment in this so that I can be more efficient and more effective getting in my destination. Amen. I Dr. Raquel Martin: bet y'all didn't know y'all was getting a word today too. Did you? You thought you were in the podcast

episode? We got a double whammy today, y'all. Amen. I think it's so important to just reiterate, Bishop say, God is not afraid of your questions, you will be surprised. You you'll be surprised. How many times people, actually, I hear that, a lot people being surprised with my faith. It's such an intellectual I'm like, Oh yeah, that's why I got my faith. That's weird. What you talk about. They they go hand in hand. So like, God is not afraid of your questions, the church

should not be afraid of your questions. Of your questions. And it is courageous to seek help, because you do have to. You gotta dig up those roots. And let me tell you something, they they're gnarled half the time. You afraid be like, Oh, I did not, I forgot about that. And it's courageous to decide to work on yourself, because we do operate in a community. I always state that therapy is one, can be one pathway to healing, but therapy, you don't need therapy heal. In my opinion, it's one

pathway. You do need community like you cannot, you cannot grow or heal in isolation. It's interesting for Frederick, federal stage mentioned, like during therapy. He said that if you're not in therapies and you don't really challenge your way of thinking often, unless you have a space to do it. A lot of people just go on and they're just like, this is the right way. And these therapy makes you challenge, evolve your thought process to be like, and afterwards you'll be like, Man,

is this how I was living? Is this because you Why would you challenge if you don't, if you don't have someone to help you challenge, if you don't have an objective person, like, it's, it's, it's, it's very much the aspect of questioning. And I think that's that's amazing. Well, Bishop Walker, tell everybody where they can find you in all of your you had so one you could find them churches, 13 books, y'all best

selling ones. And what was the most recent one that you the one that you just looked it up, recent book The most well, this is restored at the root and restored at the root. I think it's like number number 11 and restore the root number 12 is my mental health book. It's the intersection between faith and and mental health. And then the last book I've written, which is another book that deals with the same thing, a different capacity, leadership and

loneliness, yes, and space. And you can find though, you can find me at Joseph Walker three org. That's my website. Joseph Walker three org. You follow me on Instagram at Joseph Walker three or ministry, go out there on Mount Zion, Nashville on YouTube. Check out. End of the message. I have a series I did struggling with God, and this is about the questions we have for God, and God can handle those questions. And it's about people being in those those mental health spaces and how God worked

them through that. Elijah was at a place of suicide, and how God brought him back from that. And so those are things that we enjoy teaching. We help people, and we look forward to just how we can be a blessing to you. Dr. Raquel Martin: Yes, I really appreciate the fact of sharing just specifics about like mental health is all up and through the Bible. Do you also do streaming for the church services we

stream? Oh, yeah, absolutely. You go to Mount Zion Nashville on YouTube, and if you go type in mount Zion Nashville on YouTube, you can watch just any sermon or any service we've preached the last two, three years. It's out there law that deeper dive, Bible studies I mentioned earlier in this podcast about the mental health series we're getting ready to do in the month of May. Can log in on any of that. You can watch it everywhere. So anytime thereafter, you can look at the

different series and just click and you're right there. You can watch it live or to be recorded. So hey, have at it. It's there, and that's free content that will be a blessing to you and yours. Dr. Raquel Martin: Yeah, definitely. So for all those who are bedside Baptist, you can just grab your phone guys, and it doesn't really get the word. I want them everyone to know where they can actually find you and listen to you. Because not

meant, there's not a there are more. But if you have someone who's able to talk about mental health and psychology and theology, you probably want to listen to them more so YouTube as well, y'all, which is everywhere. And thank you so much for coming to the show. This was so awesome. Yeah, yeah. Dr. Raquel Martin: I was like, Oh, I know I want to do an episode my spirituality. Gotta get Bishop. It's just, it's very much within the family, and it. It's amazing. We should I

wonder. I always wonder, like, how Brandon was when Brandon has been, y'all, for all y'all know how he was when he was little. He said he was in the choir, right? Like, he, yeah, yeah, he's in the choir. Very quiet, though he was always quiet. He was just always tired. Dr. Raquel Martin: Yes, I laughed. I was just like, Oh my

goodness. So yeah, but I would say, thank you so much for coming on the show, and thank you so much for integrating the aspect of mental health and psychology and theology, because it is very much what people need. And if you you guys don't get anything from listen to this episode, please realize that it's happening everywhere. So don't be afraid to question.

Don't be afraid to ask for resources. And when it comes to your church and your church home, one thing I have always learned is that pastors and bishops and deacons, they're listening. So if you feel as though that's something you need, say it what's called a church home, for a reason. It is another home. So if you feel like you need those services, let everyone know. All right, yes.