Welcome to the Ecosystem Show . We're thrilled to have you with us here . We challenge traditional mindsets and explore innovative approaches to maximizing the value of your software estate . We don't expect you to agree with everything . Challenge us , share your thoughts and let's grow together . Now let's dive in . It's showtime . Okay , we're back for another round .
It's post Dynamics Minds we're pumped're back for another round . It's post-Dynamics Minds we're pumped . We've been together , we've shared each other's breath in the last week or so Already .
We're off the rails already .
Essence , life force . You know all that kind of . We've energized each other , right .
And , in Mark's case , a lot of tequila .
I had a shot or so , a one or two , and that was all you know . Chris Huntingford's encouragement , or should we say Will Dorrington and AJ's encouragement . But I digress , I'm going to hand to Andrew . I think you're the one that's probably got the lead for today .
Oh man . Well , so first of all , speaking of dynamic minds , dynamics , minds . I think we need to talk about the episode that we recorded live , which , by the time this recording comes out the one I mentioned will have been out for a week .
So we received the final cut of that and Anna had just picked our daughter up from school , from nursery , and I popped the thing open and we start the thing and Alexandra , at first she takes an interest in it , watching YouTube , and I should say does everyone know who Miss Rachel is ? We're all parents here . Does everyone know Miss Rachel ?
So , chris , are your kids like ? Did they miss Miss Rachel ? They might be a little too old . I do not know what this is , anna . What is Miss Rachel ?
Miss Rachel is an institution . Miss Rachel teaches you about life .
And numbers .
And numbers and shapes and colors and songs , and the more we get together , the happier feel yes , but that's like , but that's bluey .
You know , that's exactly what bluey does miss .
Rachel is different miss rachel is a youtube phenomenon and and anyway , so . So alexandra , our daughter , watches the ecosystem show for about a minute and she's very intense and then , as if she's finally decided , she looks at us and says I want miss rachel , miss rachel , miss rachel . And she just starts very , very , uh enthusiastically demanding this rachel .
So I would say that , uh , the ecosystems show almost as good as miss rachel , but it's not miss rachel or bluey I think that if it gets as good as miss rachel , we'll all be rich , because she's very rich after recording these videos that woman is fabulously wealthy , yeah she's very , very wealthy after recording a few little sing songs and yeah so another one
to look at is danny go , that's my kid's go-to .
And this was some dude , I think he was in walmart in america , got laid off with the covid or something like that , recorded a few songs in his garage and in his what they're in his garage in his garage in his garage . Yeah , all right . Just let him be Andrew Elch , sorry sorry , the Queen's English has never flowed all the way to the .
You know the ends of the colonies .
I think it flowed more to New Zealand than it did to America . So I mean you know ?
Actually just a digression . Do you know why american butchered english ? My the telegraph . Apparently the telegraph surface was why ? Because you paid by the character back in the day . That's why characters and stuff and words were changed around to make words shorter and stuff like color , for example , c-o-l-o-u-r .
If you know , you know , if you're proper english , we're american right . C-o-l-o-r was it saved money on ? Yeah , you're surprised . I can spell two words .
That's why we have math instead of math .
I'm surprised that they needed to write the word color in a telegram to begin with . Like , what motivation would you have to write the word color in a telegram ?
I think that's homework . That's homework for someone here , beige .
We're going to paint the ceiling the color beige . There we go . That feels like that .
Yes , Actually , there's this great video that Anna sent me yesterday . I was in the city yesterday and it's Alexandra saying I love you , daddy , but she didn't say I love you daddy's . Alexandra saying I love you , daddy , but she didn't say I love you daddy , she said I love you daddy . And it was the first .
It was the first evidence that I had that my daughter is going to have a , is going to have an English accent with this video . So back to the point here . Back to the point um reflections on dynamics minds . Or , as I said in a LinkedIn post , dynamics minds is um the Microsoft world's combination of burning man and Davos .
But uh , where did uh , where did you guys land with it ? How was it Epic ? Oh , I loved it .
I thought , I took , I took , I took leave for that conference , man , because I don't think you can do that conference with any other distractions , because , holy shit , there are so many distractions there already . Like , it's just some of the stuff .
You did well , like you were smart . You were very smart , and Mike was actually telling me that he also doesn't take like work calls and stuff during a conference , like that , yeah , I did a lot of work calls and , yeah , next year no work calls .
Especially at Dynamics Minds . I think , sure , like EPP , yes , fine , but not Dynamics Minds , and I just think that there's so much to see and do there . And the other thing that was really good , right , like the first one .
So many smart people .
Yeah , the first one we didn't really adventure out , Like we didn't really quest . The second one , we quested . Like you know , there was a lot of questing happening . Yeah , there was questing . There was lobster as well , which was weird , but it was great .
Chris befriended a lobster shortly before its demise yeah , shortly before its demise yeah , yeah , yeah .
Cyril , I thought it was a fantastic conference .
The content was great . It was also cool to spend more time with you guys , because last year I felt like I just floated around a bit , but this time I actually hung out with people that I really wanted to hang out with , which was cool .
You know , there is this kind of and this might be a little kind of Microsoft community inside talk , but one of the things that I've noticed over the last couple of years , again in Microsoft world right , so Microsoft is a huge corporation and there are hundreds of thousands of people more so , I'm sure around the world that specialize in the technology itself right
, but it's actually a pretty small community . But when you get sort of on the ground at one of these events , it is easy to feel very overstimulated by all of the people that you can talk to and that you can have a drink with and you can share ideas with .
But one of the things that I found over the last couple of years I would say kind of since we came out of COVID , is that I have a circle of friends and I look forward to spending quality time with fewer people who I've sort of chosen to have be part of my life , and that's , I think , a big , that's been a big change for me when it comes to these
big tech events since we came out of COVID .
Yeah , I liked the Burning man meets Davos , just brilliant . I was speaking to Anna and I'm going to sorry Anna , make a mistake of your last name but Gugli Gojavec , who is ? She's the lady that invented the whole thing , right ? Yeah , she said to her husband who we met on the first day there here's my idea and of course , the rest they say , is history .
And you know , what I loved in one of the comments we had backwards and forwards was she said we want to put on a highly professional conference , but with a festival feel . You set an intention like that . Don't you create a totally different event , right , rather than I'm just wanting to put on a conference , but just that spin with a festival feel .
And I think they really achieved that . I mean , each night party night . Anna , I know that you're going to have to have a hotel back from the main hotel next year because of the , the noise late into the night I feel , like I'm old , I'm still , I'm still tired .
Like the party was on until like 2 am and throughout the day and like then the the , because they had likea professional band every day and professional bands like rehearsed before the event and then they had a very non-professional band you did , did very well , andrew . The biggest karaoke night that you've ever seen that was really cool .
Yeah , it was cool , man , and kudos to you , man , getting up and going hard with your Sweet Home , alabama song .
It was American Pie , but not very . I meant that , I meant that .
It was the best American one that came to me Quite literally the same thing , wasn't it ?
Bye , bye , bye , miss American Pie , but in the key of Madonna .
Yes . So I thought I was about to karaoke the original Don McLean version and as I'm climbing up on the stage , someone pulls me aside and says by the way , the only version we have is the Madonna version .
So off you go , and there I am on stage in front of a thousand people singing a song in a version that I had never heard before and that is about half as slow as the original and where madonna chopped out half the words , because you can't have a successful seven minute song nowadays . So , um , anyway it was .
it was quite an experience very good , very good , um , absolutely . I will go back next year if , if invited , probably , if not invited , so anyway , it was quite an experience . Very good , very good , absolutely . I will go back next year if invited . Probably , if not invited , I would still go back , even though it was a .
My flight home was 24 hours in a tin can a lot of that sitting on the tarmac at one location .
Ryanair .
I just want to throw it out there .
Yeah , the ecosystem show has come out strong in our opposition to Ryanair as an institution .
Yes , yes , I think we're just joining the rest of the world in that respect , though .
Yeah , it's not newsmaking .
But yeah , I would definitely go back . It was such an epic event . But absolutely the highlight was hanging out with you guys , without a doubt , because that was the first time I was back in Europe in what six years , since pre-COVID and it was just epic . Hanging out with you guys eating lobster . I shot the lobster and shenanigans .
It was excellent , hey , speaking of tin cans and tin cans in the air from a very different perspective . But Anna and I have recently gotten into this amazing show on Apple TV plus that you have to watch . It's called masters of the air . It is mind blowing in its depiction of the um , of the , the multi-year battle in the skies over Europe in 1943 , 1944 .
And it is so artfully done , and I will admit that the episode we watched most recently made me cry . But it's , it's , it's , it's an , it's an absolute work of art and I highly recommend you watch it .
Oh , check it out , I'll check it out .
So onto , onto the tech . Now we're onto well . So we had at Dynamics Minds we did a panel , the five of us , and in characteristic fashion we spent half the panel sort of bullshitting with one another and with the audience , and then we spent half the panel . What Rambling Say rambling , yeah , rambling .
The man doesn't have to cut you out . Okay , we need to't have to cut you out ?
Okay , we need to be kind to our editor , but yeah , so , chris , I think we have some questions that went unanswered in the panel that we need to . We want to pick up with , yeah , some questions .
Yes , some questions , some questions , some questions . Yes , we do . So I'm going to ask you a couple of things . There were some folks that came up afterwards and they're like so there was one particular question which is not oh , it's very specific . So we're not going to start with that , right ?
We're going to start with something that we can create a discussion around . Then we'll get to that one . We're going to have a warm-up question here . Yeah , yeah , warm-up question is okay . This is something we didn't answer , but we alluded to anyway . How important is , or will be , co-pilots in the cloud ecosystem ?
Hmm , who wants to take that you ecosystem ? Who wants to take that you Me . I thought I was the moderator today .
No , Chris is the moderator .
Can we just ask you the question , Joe ?
Oh , I didn't realize you were asking me . I mean , I have opinions . I was just trying to be polite and kind .
Okay , I'll tell you what . Let me warm you up , right ? Okay , I think that it's not going to be . It's not really a question of how important it is going to be . It's going to happen , right , like so , this is not how important is it .
It's going to happen whether you like it or not , okay , so let's figure out , not how important is it , but how important actually is it that you work now to start thinking about adopting it ?
How important actually is it that you work now to start thinking about adopting it ? Yeah , and I think that . So one of the things that I think that has bewildered me about the co-pilot discussion over the last year or so has been this idea that co-pilot is a discrete thing , right ?
I remember at one point when Anna was still at Microsoft and Anna keep me honest on this when you were still at Microsoft , you had a colleague who was sort of assigned the portfolio right to work with partners on the copilot , and to me that even underscored Microsoft , or at least folks in the field .
Lack of understanding about what copilot is there isn't one copilot , right . Understanding about what Copilot is there isn't one Copilot , right . Copilot is a thing , is a thread that is pulled through many , many different Microsoft products , right ?
So you can't have the specialist in the Copilot because there's GitHub Copilot and there's Power Apps Copilot and there's M365 Copilot and Fabric Copilot . And I believe in my last conversation with Donna , which happened a week ago , donna Sarkar , it was that there are 101 co-pilots as of now , including a loop co-pilot . It turns out it's okay .
It's okay , yeah , I mean fine .
So my colleague Dan I was just returning from mat leave and he was assigned the co pilot . The co-pilot like back then . He was like I feel like this is very naive and he was like he's a very diplomatic person and like the just the nicest guy you've ever seen .
We're talking about Marco here , by the way , for for reference and Marco borrow , so he's like friends .
here at Microsoft , there were 47 co-pilots . Which do you want me to take on , because I see that I also have a target on Power Apps . So what do you want me to do more specifically ? But no one knew . So , yeah , it was very interesting .
But I think the point here of and I love that story because it drives home that co-pilot or something like co-pilot that co-pilot is our current incarnation of how many many people are interacting with AI inside of a cloud ecosystem . So Copilot or a Copilot-like thing is , I think , really just going to become part of the air .
Right , we don't even show Copilot on the reference ecosystem because Copilot is embedded in so many , many , many things . So , yes , you know , yes , I think there's a , there's an adoption of Copilot and teaching people how to use Copilot and making the most of that investment .
But I also think that Copilot is , is , it's already a lot like air and it is only going to become more so .
I think there it's . It's a problem of adoption , as it was telling people to adopt fields and forms . It's like they didn't have a choice right . If they wanted to create anything , they had to use fields and forms . Copilot is exactly the same how do we do , chris ?
I . I think one other thing is that , rather than air , it's like electricity . We don't think about how we can use electricity or not . It's like I plug in , I charge my devices . It's ubiquitous to everything we do , and I think that ai to say you know there's a hundred and something , sorry , co-pilots , right ?
It's just like do we count how many people there are in the world ? For you know , it's like it's going to be everything and especially when you go to agents , right , agents are going to amplify that there's going to be . If you want millions of co-pilots , as you would expect , if there's a co-pilot per person , what that means , what ?
Eight billion co-pilots will probably end up being available yep , I think .
No , I think you're right . All right . Next question okay , so so that's a wrap . Uh , so yes , there was one question in the panel that just said hmm , and it's definitely after something . Mark said right , so we'll see I know that for sure .
Well , since we don't know what it was that Mark said , should we talk about the infamous LinkedIn post ?
Should we give that some time . No no , no , no , no , no . That's it , yeah , that absolutely actually no , no , okay , no . So the next one is I like this one and I think , actually let's talk . I think , anna , actually you'll be a good one to kick off with this , right . It's like how do you define the boundaries of an ecosystem ?
Is it as simple as Microsoft versus non-Microsoft , or do client requirements set the limits ? So kind of , while you think the way that I'd seen this happen and this happens a lot is that people perceive a digital ecosystem to be like it's vendor-specific or it's like is it a Salesforce thing ? And I loved your ecosystem design diagram .
So I'm going to leave it there and let you hit this nail on the head .
I think that ecosystems are different and they mold exactly on our customers' needs and desires and current reality . I think you can create an ecosystem out of everything . The Microsoft ecosystem , or the cloud ecosystem as we call it right now , doesn't really stop at Microsoft .
In fact , oftentimes in our diagrams we start with SAP or Workday or whatever our customers have start with , like SAP or Workday or whatever our customers have . An ecosystem is a way to nurture , to breathe life into our customers' needs and to make it all happen without really being too strict in our technology choices .
I think open-mindedness is a technology ecosystem unless you don't perceive that as being too wacky , but it's just the way I feel ecosystem architecture should be . Because we have so many technology options , we have the luxury of choosing that for our customers .
I will add to that that I think you can certainly build a thriving cloud ecosystem without you can build a thriving cloud ecosystem and have it not be Microsoft centric . Now , the expertise of the people on the you know , of all of us who host this podcast , and probably the expertise of most of the people who listen is very Microsoft centric .
What I will say , though , is that Microsoft is the only one of the technology vendors that is going to provide an option for almost everything that you would want to put into your ecosystem , right , everything that you would want to put into your ecosystem , right .
So the most obvious way to think about this is that you could go with AWS for your cloud infrastructure or for your data platform to some extent , but Amazon does not have a productivity or a modern work suite . In fact , I believe Amazon might be Microsoft's largest Microsoft 365 customer on the planet .
I read that maybe a year ago , so they're right up there . You could use a combination of Salesforce and Workday and SAP for your core business systems , but those providers don't have a cloud infrastructure offering .
You can use Google for your productivity , and Google likes to think that they have a cloud , a cloud infrastructure offering , but so I think that you know .
When we talk about ecosystem architecture , yes , you can absolutely piece a cloud ecosystem together from across many different vendors , but you're not going to find another vendor that is able to source all of the components the way that Microsoft can .
Good , Mark any thoughts ?
No , no , I see we're running out of time and I just don't want to add something to everything .
Okay , so the one and Mark , this one's for you , actually , because I've been saving this one for you , and , andrew , I know you wrote something on this , so we'll end with you . Okay , mark , what do we need to do to be ready for AI ? Now , the one thing that I've started to realize with this whole process is that AI can't just be co-pilot .
There has to be a bunch of things that live in there , and the other thing is that it can't just be . We need technical guardrails , there's a culture shift and a whole bunch of things that have to happen . So do you have any thoughts Like there's a culture shift and a whole bunch of things that have to happen .
So do you have any thoughts ? So a couple of things . And it's something I've been working on with my wife , meg , which is , I think , everybody's digital literacy , and therefore AI literacy , needs to come up at least 30 percent .
Everybody , no matter what role , it doesn't matter if you're a hairdresser , a cleaner , it doesn't matter if you're an executive for a Fortune 100 company and not in a CTO or CIO role your understanding , your use , personal use , needs to come up at least 30% , and so I always suggest five prompts a day , no matter what , five days a week you should do a
minimum of five prompts a day , whether it's with image creation , whether it's text to anything type creation , whether it's multimodal , etc . But a minimum of five today .
Five a day , I think , will get you into the frame of not asking questions but having a conversation with ai and notice the nuances of that and how , just like in any conversation , how you ask questions changes the outcome and how you converse backwards and forwards and realize , ah , you didn't quite get what I meant , so I converse again .
So I think everybody needs to be it's on everybody to learn this because it's going to be so , so , so important . I think it's already so important , but that's because we're in technology . But I think for people not even in technology , there's going to be this need to not just self-educate but by doing , but as an , it's a real practical thing .
You need to engage with AI , so your level of comfort and kind of like you know just how you , when you sign something , you know you have your signature . You don't think about the cursive that you put on the words or the shape of them . If you've been signing all your life , it comes second nature .
You kind of got to get to that point , I feel , with with being able to engage with ai . And yeah , by the way , I don't use Copilot as my main tool . I actually use ChatGPT and I have flirted with many other tools . Like , I have a full subscription to Perplexity . I have a subscription to the image generation one , what's it called MidJourney ?
But interesting , I'm about to cancel both my Perplexity and MidJourney tools because I find now that OpenAI's ChatGPT achieves all of those combined , and so I'm actually going to remove those subscriptions and just stay with my pro subscription of ChatGPT .
That's wild , that's wild . I'm really interested in that , mark , and that's maybe a different conversation for another time , right ?
Because when I've been mostly a co-pilot user and my rationale at the time this was a year ago maybe my rationale at the time was that , listen , I am with the exception of my MacBook that I carry around religiously I am all in on Microsoft technology .
Totally .
So I'm going to use the thing that I think is most likely to integrate with the other things that I use , but I do have a perception that there is more to be discovered if I spent more time with ChatGPT versus Copilot , so I'd love to compare them better copilot , so I'd love to compare them better .
It's the what I . I suppose my only aversion to copilot is that being that Microsoft owns it . There's a certain level of risk aversion that they have to apply , and therefore there is too much of . Rather than the answers being truthful , they are truthful in the context of sanitization of the truth in many situations .
So so you're saying chat gpt is edgier , right , it's gonna , it's yeah it doesn't , it doesn't .
So you know , I'll give you an example in hospital with my wife , medical condition um , if you ask for medical advice , it's straight out hard gonna move away away . Like I can't give you advice , go see a medical practitioner . You ask a legal thing . Oh , I can't give you legal advice . Go ask when .
If you say , listen , if I gave you this hypothetical situation , imagine somebody is this age , blah , blah , blah . And then it's going to . It will give you , oh , and like for that example , I said I'm already at the hospital . And like , for that example , I said I'm already at the hospital , I'm with doctors , et cetera .
But if I gave you all the facts , what do you think the situation could be ? And what blew me away was I realized how much AI is going to support doctors going forward and people in the medical industry , because they're so stressed out , they're dealing with so much and they see someone present with symptoms .
They're only dealing with what's on their peripheral or radar . Right now , what AI does is looks at all your blind spots , which is what I love , and so in this case it was a stomach condition . It came back with five other things than what the doctor mentioned , because the doctor was already two hours over their shift .
They were stressed , they didn't have time to read all the notes , so they just did a skim of it and make a call and I'm like man , ai is going to so stop a lot of things being misdiagnosed , I feel . So still having the whole co-pilot , right the doctor in the loop , but , yeah , changing the game .
I use chat GPT more simply because I feel like it knew me better , quicker , if that makes sense , like it knows my style . So , and it got to know me quicker for for things exactly like you're saying , or for buying something , or for scheduling things , or in general in my day-to-day life .
And I think it's really , really funny because Andrew pays for it , I'm using his credit card .
I mean we have joint finances .
We are in fact married , it's true , but it's still funny . I'm not hard enough about it .
I'm not hard enough about it .
Okay , I think there's one more question I want to ask to kind of wrap this . Okay , and this is important , right , like this is something that I really wish we had seen in the session , and this may be we have to pass on some of it to the next session , right , but I love this question . I have been working in ERP for too long .
Where is the best place to start with tooling and techniques needed to build an ecosystem ? You guys talk about it , but I need to build one . So anyone want to take that one ? Because I can categorically tell you there is nothing labeled ecosystem enablement . That's freeware on the planet , on the internet , anywhere .
We came up with the concept , right , so you're not going to find it there , and the next thing is you will find pieces that are close to it , but it's never going to be the full picture . So do you guys want to maybe share some of the places where you go to get bits of information that form our practice ?
so , before we go there I've , one of the discussions that I've had is perhaps we need and with with Andrew , to actually put a formal course together , especially off what happened in dynamics minds , where I think you've got a five out of five evaluation of 15 people that went through .
I can highly condensed three hour version , which shows just the value that it creates , but I think I've always believed where you're only going to engage a mass audience . If you go to a distribution platform , right , you need to go to something like a , an online digital training course , and there might be some complementary live pieces with that um .
But I think we're going to have to corsarsify what Andrew and Anna have established or built out here and , as all our ideas come together , put it into a highly consumable format .
Yeah , so on that we did at Dynamics Minds , we did the three-hour pre-day workshop , like Mark said , and Anna and I taught that together and , by the way , I was Anna , I think also we were we were blown away . There were 18 people in the class . It was by far the , I think , the most registered for of all of the pre-day workshops . We had eight .
Eight people submitted , submitted feedback and all eight of them submitted five out of five . So listen , I I was personally quite nervous about it because we'd never actually taught this in course form . We had way too much content for three hours . Credit to Anna , I think , for some of the style of the content .
So anyway , I thought that it went very well and we have an outline actually where I'm looking for this , the .
So , right at the outline as it stands now , we would have taught one of the five blocks that we need to prioritize , probably after we get through the Microsoft year , which ends at the end of this month , that we need to prioritize turning this into a course that can be consumed online , virtually , and also , you know , we could go do as a full blown course
in person . But yeah , this needs to become a priority .
What I'd like to add to that was the fact that most of the people in that course did in fact , come from ERP backgrounds or business central backgrounds . So they were like very open-minded and they really , really wanted to know how to do ecosystem architecture . And then it was not the most signed up , for course .
There were more like to appoint courses , such as lisa crosby's course , and you know where you actually learn , you know something that you can adopt immediately . This is strategy , and it's really really hard to put it into practice back home , especially after just three hours .
So the way we structured it was in a few handy tools , let's just say that you can just use in your day-to-day life life . And the last thing that I would like to say is that this is a very scary area to go into , and within our course we only had one lady and I thought that we were over that now .
I thought that everyone is more or less , you know , diverse , and we talk about all sorts of diversity within the Microsoft community , but when it comes to stuff that you actually have to do , it did feel to me that we still need to work hard in order to achieve that diversity of thought .
So important .
Absolutely , absolutely , absolutely .
So if you just want to get up to speed right now with what is out there Cloud Lighthouse , go there . There's a ton of white papers . There's a ton of essays . There's a ton of resources already there . Go check them out , Read them . Spend the time . There's a lot of gold there before the course is built out .
That's it .
Yeah , definitely .
Wonderful . So I'm looking at time . We've got a couple more that we can hit on the next one .
Yeah , let's do that Perfect .
I definitely think that those were good responses . The one thing that I'm just hoping that we can all start thinking about is that when we're talking about ecosystem architecture that is a piece of the enablement program Okay , so that is a piece of it there are still people , there's still process we need to think about and how these all snap together .
So it's important to get the architecture right up front , but there's still a whole other layer to this set of layers that we all need to think about , right ? So , again , we can probably tap into that on one of the next podcasts .
Nice yeah .
Yeah , man , it feels weird doing this without margaritas .
Yeah .
Oh it's been a long week .
Anything else we're covering today before we wrap .
That's it . I think we're good , awesome , cool , all right , well , folks , thank you very much .
It's been great and we'd be keen to hear your feedback . So like , don't be shy . What we don't want is people just to agree with us . We want people to have diverse opinions , different perspectives , so feel free to engage , particularly on the LinkedIn posts that we do with . These is often a good place to comment . We're all reachable on LinkedIn .
You can private message us if you want to . We don't want it in the public domain .
Not if you are a recruiter or a staffing firm , though you may not private message me if you are a staffing firm , to be clear .
I love it . I love it Alrighty .
Thanks everyone , Thanks you may not private , message me if you are a staffing firm , to be clear . I love it . I love it Alrighty . Thanks everyone .
Thanks everyone . Bye guys , See you later . Thanks for tuning into the Ecosystem Show . We hope you found today's discussion insightful and thought-provoking , and maybe you had a laugh or two . Remember your feedback and challenges help us all grow , so don't hesitate to share your perspective .
Stay connected with us for more innovative ideas and strategies to enhance your software estate . Until next time , keep pushing the boundaries and creating value . See you on the next episode .