Welcome to the MVP show . My intention is that you listen to the stories of these MVP guests and are inspired to become an MVP and bring value to the world through your skills . If you have not checked it out already , I do a YouTube series called how to Become an MVP . The link is in the show notes . With that , let's get on with the show .
Today's guest is from the United Kingdom . He works at CarePoint 365 as a lead solution architect . He was first awarded as MVP in 2024 . He gave up living on the beaches or the beach life in Cape Town to join the amazing Microsoft Power Platform community in the United Kingdom . I can testify to that after living there .
With a passion for developing enterprise workflow solutions and engaging with the Power Platform community , his ultimate goal is to make a difference whilst learning from and helping others . You can find links to his bio and socials in the show notes for this episode . Welcome to the show , Nati .
Thank you , mark , good to be here . Thank you so much for having me on .
Good to have you on . I see another export from South Africa to the United Kingdom . I assume that Mr Hunnigan must have helped you get there .
I assume that Mr Hunnicutt must have helped you get there . Yeah , it was a fantastic journey . Originally , my wife was from the UK so when we got married she came to South Africa to live with us for a bit .
We gave it a shot , but it got to that point where the UK community was just so , so warm and opening to me being involved with it and the South African issues we were having were just . It was getting to that point where we couldn't take them anymore . So it just made sense everyone was here , the community was here , work was here , family was here .
Why don't we just move ? And yeah , Chris was a big help with it . But it's been a phenomenal journey so far and I think five months in , we settled .
We're happy , not looking back so good , so good I can . I can testify to that uk community when I moved to london and when was it ? 2017 , I've got a feeling yeah , 2017 , I think I moved to london , um , my wife and I and , yeah , the community was totally embracing .
It's vibrant , probably one of the most vibrant power platform communities around the world , so it's definitely a good place to be located in the UK if you're in this community . Absolutely , I couldn't agree with you more .
It's incredibly vibrant and it's probably the most welcoming community I've been a part of so far on this journey .
Food , family and fun what do they mean to you ?
Food's a rough one at the moment . Coming from South Africa to England , there's a vast variety of food now that I've got that I've been exposed to . So I'm on a diet I'm not eating at the moment . I've cut out all sugar . But food I love . A good burger , I love a good pizza , good barbecue . That that's me to the t . What ?
do you do for fun I enjoy writing blogs and doing content for the community . That that's my fun . Um , I had the stage where I used to do a bit of lego a couple of years ago . Um , uh , I was very into my music , so I love my drums , drums , my guitars , my keyboard . I used to compose a lot of music as well . Unfortunately , I've given that up .
Having a family takes a lot of time , apparently . But , yeah , I think I want to get back into it , but right now my focus is just being with my family . Spending time with my family , that's fun for me . Going out on a Sunday , taking my daughter to the park , going on trips together that , that's fun for me .
Going out on a Sunday taking my daughter to the park , going on trips together that's the weekends , that's fun .
I love it . I love it . So are you London-based or further afield ?
I am Manchester-based . It's rainy , gloomy Manchester compared to Cape Town .
Yeah , yeah , I know Manchester . It was definitely an eye-opener when I first visited .
It's not as bad as people say it is . I've got to be honest it's really not as bad .
No comment . Tell you what . Tell you what . Tell you what . Tell me how you know why technology . Why was that your career path ? What brought you on that journey ?
I think it was just a bunch of coincidental events that led me to this path so far . I actually started my career seven years ago . I actually started as an intern worker at a manufacturing company and my job for three months was unpacking boxes and packing boxes off and onto trucks , and we're talking about 45 kilo boxes . So I remember my first day .
I rocked up there . I was in my button-up shirt , my jeans , looking more smart , with my smart shoes , and I was given an apron saying go offload this truck . And one thing I can definitely advise you is don't spend seven and a half hours offloading boxes dressed to the T .
Does not work well for your feet , but that's how I got into it and I was doing that while I was studying industrial psychology and in my second year I eventually showed a bit of IT skills in the company . I drew out their whole bin location system for them .
I mapped it out into what they were using Sage 200 , back in the day and within a couple of months they had me heading their IT department and I was running all their systems , from ERP systems to their servers to their PABX systems .
And I think I was exploring Microsoft Office one day and I came across Power BI and I thought , okay , this is a pretty nifty tool to come and build reports with .
At the time , sage 200 , you've got Crystal Reporting , which is okay , but if you want to run BRC modules or BRC reports from that , you're looking at a couple of hours sometimes to export data and it's a nightmare to model it afterwards . So I kind of figured if I can get like the base data out of Sage into Excel and bring it into Power BI .
You can make some really , really , really cool reports and good visualizations . That's where I started and as I went down that journey a bit more and a bit more , I figured out you can create gateways on servers to Excel spreadsheets and to SharePoint sites and that would sync to Power BI , keeping it a bit more live .
And then I realized , oh gosh , you've got SQL , let's dive into this . So we started creating , I learned how to code in SQL , I learned how to do data warehousing .
I built up some complex data queries , a bunch of views put them into their Power BI reports to the point where I completely migrated the company out of Sage reporting into a whole Power BI reporting system .
That's where they did all their financial reports going forward and I liked the idea of Power BI and I saw another power word in the office suite called Power Apps , and that was another journey on its own , just being able to transact with that data and now create what was it called for supply chain management , inventory orders , inventory tracking , work orders and
then tying it up with the data .
So slowly but surely , I started getting into the Power Apps side and the Power Automate side and I think that's where I left Power BI behind and made my way up until where I am now , fortunately , where I'm enjoying every second of the Power Platform building solutions not just Power Apps now , but for enterprise-scale solutions and learning every single day .
So I think that's where I've been led to . It's a pity because I gave up my industrial psychology degree . I literally dropped out of college and focused on the Microsoft certifications , but I think it was a good journey . I'm happy with my decision .
Industrial psychology . What is it ? I don't think I've even heard the phrase before , and so when you said it I was like what is this ?
It's basically hr . I didn't realize that until someone told me it's hr , I thought it was okay . Well , I like business . I like I like being involved in business , like entrepreneurship . I've run a few businesses when I was a kid uh , from from um , photography companies , music companies . And I like psychology . I like speaking to people . I'm good at understanding .
I'm good at reading people's emotions and hopefully guiding them through certain processes . I thought put the two together business psychology , industrial psychology , great .
And then I heard that it's basically HR and at the time I wasn't a fan of my HR department , so it was another reason to get out of that degree Interesting , because when you said it I was like , oh , perhaps it's like a degree that really focuses on industrial systems and business systems and things like that , and I was like , hey , that makes sense .
So I was surprised at it's HR .
That's kind of what I thought at the beginning and it turns out that most people with industrial psychology degrees just end up in that HR role .
If you're fortunate enough to be unique , then you do a lot of business coaching , where you you take a company's journey and kind of dissect the psychology of how the company runs , how the systems run , and consult to them . That's in South Africa at the time was a very niche market and it was very , very tough to get into .
I find it interesting that HR , the Department of HR , the role of HR , in the last I don't know five years it seems to have taken on a massively , a massive different meaning . Everyone thought that HR was out to look after them , to protect them against the corporation , et cetera . And I think what people have found out ?
No , hr has always worked for the corporation . They're in the interest of mitigating and defending the interests of the corporation and you , in your false sense of belief as an employee , have thought that they battered for you , but definitely do not inside the organization .
There was . A harsh reality that I learned as well is that HR is not on your side . You're the problem . They're there to make sure you don't become more of a problem .
You know , the other area I came across it was in negotiation of salary is that you think right , because often you you in a in a big organization you're never negotiating with the , the hiring manager .
You're negotiating with hr on your salary and I think a lot of people don't realize that hr are compensated on how low they keep your salary , like not how high they make it .
It's like what's the lowest point that you will sign to come on board and you think they're giving you a few scraps and meeting your needs , but their job is to make sure you land at the lowest level possible . I went through this in joining the company I've just recently resigned from and the HR .
I had already pre-negotiated my salary because it was a headhunt situation that had come after me , and so then it came to HR and they were like oh , you know , in the geography you're in , we only pay this much . I'm like , mate , this is not up for discussion . The only reason I'm here is because you came after me . As an organization , we set the price .
There's no changing . Well , that's just not our policy . I'm like I don't care what your policy is , you know , and that's when I really realized their job is to get you down into their banding systems to the lowest price point possible oh wow , that's , that's a rough one . Yeah , it's crazy . It's crazy . Tell me about architecture , because that's your role now .
You're a lead solution architect . What do you think the key skills a solution architect need ? If you were to just summarize , let's say , five skills that you believe a good solution architect needs to know , have , do , what would that be ?
This is a rough one . My brain is too fraught to even think about this now , but I'm going to give it a shot . Would that be ? This is a rough one . My brain is too fried to even think about this now , but I'm going to give it a shot .
Definitely , data modeling when it comes to architecture , the fundamentals of your solutions , as Mike likes to say , you get your data model right , your solution builds itself .
So , whether you've got a SQL background , a data engineering background , being able to understand how , what DIMM fact tables are , snowflake schemas are , being able to have primary keys , relationships , that's the fundamentals to building an architecture for a solution the data model .
On top of that , I think having a very strong understanding of security , that you've got this phenomenal data model and having it in Dataverse with the security complexity that it offers , you're introducing this holy grail of an architecture that you could potentially have .
So making sure that your security is right and it fits with your data model is the next step , because the last thing you want is to build this fantastic data model and realize at the end of the journey oh shoot , we need to build an RBAX model now . How on earth do we manage record assignment record privileges . So the fundamentals are data model security .
I think the next one for me is keeping open-minded about the solution and having a bit of a broader aspect to it . If you're maybe following an agile process , you're not going to have vision over what the entire architecture is going to look like from the beginning .
So kind of thinking ahead and not locking yourself up to a fixed data model but more of a dynamic data model .
So avoiding to code specific column types that may be specific , related to a customer , maybe more market general , kind of similar to what you have with a form engine , where you've got the ability to build a variety of columns and data types and then bring that into an engine itself and having that from an architecture side .
So thinking a bit broader and longer term rather than what the current need is , and relying on the rest of your team has been a really , really big one for me . You don't know everything . You really , really don't .
And if you do , I don't want to go down that conversation , but I find it very , very helpful to say , okay , if I'm building a solution , if I'm architecting a solution , it's easier for me to pick the brain of three of my other developers within an hour and say listen , I want to try to solve this problem with this architecture . How do I do it ?
I'm a bit stuck . How do you approach the people ? And people have got different ways of doing it You'll get three different answers . If you get an answer and that can save you hours upon hours of research to try to figure out what the best way to do it is , because there's no best way , there's always various ways of doing it . So I think those have been .
The biggest learning curve for me about solution architecture is getting the data model right , making sure your RBAX is in place and kind of thinking ahead and having your team involved with it .
Not just this is up to me and I'm going to give it over to you and how you build it . Yeah , good , I like it . I like it . Tell me about becoming an MVP . How did that come about you ? What was the process ? Who nominated you ?
Yeah , that's also a long story . I was approached by Alexio already a year ago about it , but that was before the beginning of the journey , so he was the one that originally nominated me . I touched base with Chris Huntingford and EY a while back . I said guys , listen , I'm struggling to break into the community where I am now .
Can you help me get into the community in the UK ? And we got on a call with the two of them . Ey was phenomenal . He got me my first session at the Power Platform D365 user group in Manchester , where I did a session on Power Platform pipelines versus the LM Accelerator .
And the best advice that Chris and EY gave me at the time was that's your introduction to the community .
You've got a foot in there and you've just got to ride that wave and continue going with it , and that's what I did .
Once I really had my foot in the community , I started doing my blogs , which I was really passionate about . I found a nice niche at the time because Power Platform Power Plans had just come out and people weren't fully understanding how the LM Accelerator actually functioned . They knew how that it could work , but not the underlying concept of how it works .
And I think from then I started to elaborate on how we could understand the LM Accelerator's architecture and Power Platform Python's architecture . I did a few blogs on it and then , I think , alexio confronted me and said like mate , I want to nominate you . I said , okay , that's a big one . He put the nomination in and I withdrew it .
I said , okay , that's a big one . He put the nomination in and I withdrew it . I think right before the submission closes . I was not in a good mind frame . I had just moved from Johannesburg to Cape Town . Mentally I was drained , I was slightly depressed . It was just a rough time for me . I couldn't take on the pressure , so I put on pause .
I spoke to , I think , one of the region managers about it .
He said it's fine , We'll touch base again in a few months and see what you're holding .
And at the same time they re-nominated me and I had two other people approaching . I had Keith and Stuart approach me about the nomination and yeah , it went through and here we are and it's really great to be a part of the program . I feel super privileged . It definitely comes with the imposter syndrome speaking to people like yourself , and it's had its lows .
I'll be honest . It's had its lows , but it's been a good journey .
We're going to jump to the lows in a second . So just confirming for me you got awarded the MVP while you were still in Joburg .
I got awarded with it . When I moved to Cape Town , I was nominated in sorry , I got awarded . When I moved to the UK , I was nominated when I was in Cape Town .
Oh , so you only received it when you were in the UK . Were you under the new CPM in the UK at the time ? Were you still under the C ? Were you under the new cpm in the uk at the time ? Were you still in the under the cpm in ?
cape town . I was still under the cp in cape town and when I rocked up onto my my cp call , she was like no , let's get you in touch with with um , with the cp in in england , in the uk . It wasn't bad , they were actually fantastic . They were really good about it . I explained the situation . I was nominated in south africa and I moved life happens .
Totally , totally , totally see , I've been , because I originated in new zealand um my mbp , then I went to australia which , interesting , had the same cpm , but then I moved to the uk . So I've been through hence . Hence now a bit about the differences and , of course , back in New Zealand now . Okay , so that's interesting .
Tell me about the lows , it feels like there's been this load of pressure dropped onto me that you've got to live up to this big expectation . Now I suffer from chronic anxiety , mild depression every now and then I've got ADHD and all that comes with imposter syndrome . I never feel like I'm good enough .
So now that you've got this status about you and again , to me it's not about the status , I really love what I do , but you compare yourself to the people out there I've now been exposed to some other MVPs that are miles ahead of me and I've got a long way to go . And I look at it and I'd be like how am I here ?
I'm in the wrong place at the wrong time . I should not be in this situation and you really feel bad about yourself because you feel like you've become a fraud in a way and you're not deserving of it . And I still don't feel deserving of it . And it's a daily feeling because we all make mistakes .
I brought down the UAT environment on Friday with one simple issue . I imported a solution with an incorrect column type and everything just broke . But it's like that type of mistake should have been caught by an MVP . How is that slipping through ?
the fingers . No , no , You've been awarded your MVP . You've got it right . There's no levels or status or hierarchies or anything like that . It's about you know helping others in their journey . That's really what it fundamentally is about . It's not how technical you are , it's not that you don't make mistakes , it's that are you helping others ?
And I think that that is . Can you still hear me ? Yeah , Okay , I just my computer did a click and I thought I'd lost it . It's really about engaging and helping others right at the end of the day and not getting . Don't compare with anybody because everybody's at different journey levels . Everybody's at different you know capability levels .
But , mate , you've made it Like just absorb it , do what you've been doing so far and nothing will change . You'll stay an MVP and you know the concept of of um . You know I still get nervous . I just spoke at a conference recently for the first time in five years . I did public speaking in canada after the mvp summit and um .
I was nervous , like it's not that the nerves and stuff don't go away and even that kind of feeling of um imp syndrome .
But the thing is , if you feel , if you didn't have imposter syndrome to a degree , I feel that people that just think they're so shit hot that they don't care , I think , are at bigger risk , because it's that lacking of self-awareness and you talked about your ability to read people and read situations and you have a a level of eq and self-awareness that
automatically puts you uh , you know in the right frame of mind , I feel . But the the biggest thing is to stop the , the , the , the chatter on the shoulder that you're not good enough or you shouldn't be here or anything like that .
You met the criteria , you're here and if you just stayed the course and did what you did , like create content , like you've done , your blog posts and stuff that I've looked at , you've done , you meet the requirements . So well done , Well done . I appreciate that . Thank you that means a lot . You don't have to ramp up to any additional level .
You've done it . The biggest thing is balance right , making sure your family gets your time , and they should always have priority over the MVP program as well .
I see some people burn themselves out by just they need to create more content and you just don't just maintain what you've done and , uh , you should be good , you should be good yeah , it's not about the quantity , it's about the quality that comes out exactly , exactly , and and and consistency .
You know over time , like um , that you know your story of taking down uat . There was it uat you took down thank god it wasn't only a uat . Yeah , exactly exactly who cares . It wasn't only the UAT . Yeah , exactly Exactly who cares . It wasn't fraud . But you know , uat is like that's a good story . How did it happen ?
You know there's a blog post in that straight away , right ? So you can , you know , show others like , yeah , be aware of this . You know Column types are going to screw you over if you've got them wrong . You know that type of thing . So I think that , yeah , that's another good post . And this is the beauty of the MVP program .
It's really about people learning . And then you know people will take from you the same topic that they could have heard from somebody else , but you explain it just in a way that resonates with them .
And I find so many times in life , either it's like you're at a point of receptiveness to hearing an idea and then the person giving the idea just says it in a way that just it , it connects with you right , and you get this follow-through .
And that's the beauty of the diversity of the MVP program it has all different type of voices , all at different levels . Um , and enabling Final question I have for you If you were to look back across your career , what's been the one or two biggest career highlights for you ?
I think the MVP award has been a massive highlight for me . That's been a huge accomplishment that I look back to and , as much as I've got the imposter syndrome around it , I look at the award behind me and I feel really good about myself .
That's been something about my career I've been very happy about and , I think , the switch from Power BI into Power Apps and the rest of the Power Platform .
I like the data side , but I felt that there was a good journey to start off with to get into the rest of the Power Platform solution architecture , because it gave me a good concept of how to build data models and how to work with data so it works functionally within solutions without just thinking , okay , I'm going to create data on the fly solutions without
just thinking , okay , I'm going to create data on the fly . So I think those two points in my career are what I look back at and be like I'm happy . I made those choices and I'm happy where I am now .
Hey , thanks for listening . I'm your host business application MVP Mark Smith , otherwise known as the NZ365 guy . If you like the show and want to be a supporter , check out buymeacoffeecom forward slash NZ365 guy . Thanks again and see you next time . Thank you you .