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Alrighty, let's do it.
Okay, okay, this is something different and super exciting. Everybody I have put out a call a request. It's like, hey, if you're a dude or somebody probably a guy, you're a guy who's been listening to this show and you are brave and want to come on and you know, get coached or see what it's like to bring something to the table and get this in real time and share with everybody else what it might look like. I've
had that out there for a while. I've had a few people kind of dip their to ooh ooh, dip their toe in, but they had a lot of caveats. They were like, well, don't ask me about this, and don't talk about this and whatever until dun dun dun, dun dun dum he's already laughing. Or Robert showed up and dropped into my email and was like, I'm ready to be vulnerable, honest, show up, let's do this. So Robert give us a little bit about you know, your name is Robert. You don't have to use your last name,
but just give me a little bit about what. How have you been listening and what intrigued you? Why are you here.
Right?
Well, I've only been listening for a couple of weeks and you showed up my Spotify suggestions, which I don't know how Spotify knew that I needed to listen to you.
It did somehow.
I hadn't even been looking up anything related to the topic either, you know, it just came up. So I just started listening a couple of weeks ago. I'd been intrigued by so Tantra or Nia Tantra for a while and feeling quiet, I guess, kind of troubled by the topic of male sexuality and what it means to be a man into how to have and hold healthy sexuality. So yeah, Dove write in. I really was quite moved by the first episode. I felt like what you guys
were discussing helped me to feel quite seen. I look really quite emotionally moved by it. So after that I was like, wow, like maybe this is what I've been looking for. So I've just kind of been listening to about four.
Episodes a day.
Listening yeah quite literally, yeah, and really just you know, just being interested.
And then I heard your call out.
At some point before the call out, I was like, you know, it'd be pretty cool to get a session of time Ya at some point, maybe when I have more money or something.
I don't know. And I heard your call out and I was like, oh, I can do that, you know.
I get I've been getting therapy for years. Either of the whole therapy practice is me learning how to be real and vulnerable with myself and with other vision with the world. I don't really have any concerns with that. I think for me, that's a path of healings. So I kind of enjoy challenging myself to be vulnerable, and I also kind of wanted to help as well. And I also just have I'm just someone that loves to kind of.
Do weird and interesting sort of experiences. I guess I didn't necessarily think that.
I didn't necessarily think that you would get back to me so soon and so eagerly, but surprise.
We are. Let's do it.
And now, listeners, it's now six a m. And I just woke up and I'm on the podcast.
So just just like that, we both showed up with questionable hair. You know. The cool thing about that is, you know, it's audio only, So I keep being asked to go to video. I'm not sure, like, is my you know, is it is my littre better audio only? Or should we do? Should I do video? Should I change it to video?
I think some people do both, like some some people have videles.
On thee and then could happen? Okay, first of all, awesome, Yes that you uh took action.
So one of the things that a lot of men do not do that they should be doing more of is what you just did, like feeling a call or feeling a even like a thread or even that fear like this is edgy or like and jumping in thanks. Yeah.
Cool.
So that's that's courageous action and is to me one of the more potent things a man can do to show up in the world.
Cool.
So you know when you said, you know this whole thing about men or whatever, what's it like? Uh? I think the society today has caused men to lean out and not lean in, when some of men's best expressions is the lean in to it and course correct on the.
Go MT set a stuff back.
And analyze too much and think about it too much, and do all these things too much too much. That for one, it actually lowers testosterone levels.
To overthink out.
Yeah, so you know all of these men sitting back and leaning out, uh that kind of stuff. Just really walk everything down the male energy, testosterone, chemistry, everything, and so more of that lean in even if there's going to be mistakes, trusting yourself that you can course correct.
Mm in the mistake. Yeah.
Well, I don't want to paint paint am inaccurate picture because I'm definitely a nervous in care about most things. It's certain things that I'm courageous on. Certain things I think around.
Like.
Introspective kind of personal development kind of things like there, I'm a bit I can be quite ballsy, but certainly in other ways in my life in relationships, I'm not.
I'm not a leaner in a.
Yeah, use those terms because my ex used to say, I just want you to lean in a little more.
Some people tell me that I'm a little bit like mind reading psychic when I'm a coach. When I'm coaching, so.
Yeah, yeah, well sure, And I felt.
Like even though we didn't discuss anything about issues before this. We were just like, we jumped on it right before starting. That just was something that came to me as an important to start with. Is that whole lean in?
Oh man, okay, I'm sure. So do you want me to what do you want me to say?
Yeah, well, you said that your ex was like she wanted you to lean in? Did you understand what that meant? First of all, because women say things to men all the time and men are like, uh uh this we did talk about what does it mean when you hear somebody tell you I want you to lean in? What did it mean to you?
What?
Mm hmmm, Well, what it meant to me. I think that she wanted me to, ah be more vulnerable in the way of investing more in the relationship.
I think, so.
Kind of showing my investment and kind of me being the one that pushes for deeper investment.
Okay, So that's another one of those words. You know, what is that I told you about that? We're going to ever time you say something, I'm going to say, tell me more about that, Tell me more about that?
So right, So, well, I think in order to explain why there's a lot of stuff around this term for me, probably just to explain the dynamic with me at my ex was.
She was eight years older than me.
And very much when we started dating, she very much like selected me, like you're it, okay.
So she came in. She came in with the mail energy, she came in leaning in because that's a leaning.
Yeah like, and she really felt that I was I was it. I was the love that she'd been looking for. Where she was was my first sort of proper relationship for first emotionally vulnerable and connected and.
Invested like I guess how monongus? What was that? Sorry, I'm thirty three. Yeah.
So we started dating about four years ago, so for me it was quite a big deal. And for for someone to come in when I was I felt I was just ready to be the relationship.
I mean I.
And she really wanted it all and really felt that I was it and wanted me to tell her I loved her, and that was all these different things, and eventually that progressed to her wanting to have children with me and wanting to marry me and all these different things.
And I really.
Felt the need to feel safe in order to do that, particularly because it was my first time that I was in a relationship, So for me, it was always like, well, I was always bringing up fears and concerns as to why, which you know, I felt very valid, very logical years
and concerns. But I think I for her, she just wanted me to feel as though I was being vulnerable and making steps so wanting to move in with her, And because I felt I couldn't because I didn't feel safe, she then didn't feel safe herself, which I think probably exacerbated her intensity. So I think when you when you talk about leaning in, I think it's hard for me
to understand. Is it really I have an issue with leaning in or was it just in those circumstances that it was really scary for me in a way that was understandable.
Well, first of all, she came at you in her masculine so that's that's a maskul like, she did all the things she wanted you to do, and then because she took up the space, you couldn't actually do it because she dropped you into.
This, I agree with you.
And so that she gave me a chance to have a masculine exactly.
So I look at this as and this women and oh my gosh. When I teach workshops with couples and stuff like that, I have the women raise their hand and say, I am going to step back for a moment. It's I believe we need both masculine and feminine. You know, we run both. But the reality is that woman is charging in. You are it, you are everything. Let's move in, let's have babies, let's get married. Why don't you tell me you love me? And you're like, holy shit, where do I even have space to lean in?
Yeah?
Yeah, I agree, I agree. That was the feeling it was. It was a lot.
Yeah yeah, well yeah, she did it wrong.
Okay, thank you for val I mean, she did it.
She did it wrong. And I've been there.
I have been there.
I'm a very strong woman myself, and I absolutely know if you know how to claim things I want and whatever else, And I've seen the destruction that does in my earlier years, where you know, if I see this many doing this thing, and I'm like, oh wow, and then I think, well, you know, women, we should be able to claim what we want, right, I mean, there's
no with that. The problem came when she set the precedent of the energetic connection and then didn't inspire you, but yeah, demanded in that same energetic equation.
Yeah, and it never felt like all of my steps never felt like enough, you know, yes, too slow basically, which made me feel like I couldn't take steps, which exactly Ma did the issue for her.
Right, that was a death spiral from the start.
Gosh, yeah, that's so true. That's just nice to hear you say that. It's quite a heavy experience.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, because you know, and I just I've been posting all over Facebook about all this, but I just now got after eight years, got into a relationship and it's really interesting to watch him the experience in such a way that I really stepped back and this is not typical for me. So it was like such
a juxtaposition every single thing. He escalated everything. It's like, oh, that's what that looks like when somebody's really into and you give well, dad, but I, like so many other women want that, but don't realize we are not nourishing it. We are not literally giving it the space to breathe. Because we may know faster, we made me more intuitive, and so then we are like come on already. I mean, that's what I feel like she was impatient.
Yeah.
She used to say if you didn't say that, if the couple didn't say that they loved each other in three months, then you were supposed to give me a flick?
Was her philosoph listen.
To all those men that the seducing dudes.
I was like, yeah, it's such a shame.
It's such a shame because here I am four years later and I deeply love her, and it didn't help having that pressure.
You know, well, maybe so did you? Not so in that I didn't know she was pushing How would you know what you were feeling?
Say that last, but the answer she was.
Pushing in so hard. How would you have known what you were actually experiencing other than her push in?
Yeah, totally, totally. And I didn't feel that I loved her when I said it.
Unfortunately, he was hoping that she never hears this podcast episode.
Randomly and that breaks the heart.
But yeah, truthfully, I didn't, But I felt it was just going to kind of appease. I had love for her, but I didn't. I wasn't in love with her. Yeah, but it was you know, it'd been three months, right.
Oh, yeah, so she had an agenda definitely right.
You know you're the one.
My biological clock is ticking. Uh, you know, we've got exactly this stuff happening here, move it forward here.
Yeah, and if you don't take these steps, then you don't actually love me.
Did she actually ever say that?
Yeah?
Oh yeah, like you obviously in love with me the way that I am with you, and you don't understand how I feel and you never felt this way.
Yeah, it was quiet and you know that's gaslighting, right. I didn't know that, and I don't know.
That's abusive and toxic.
All right, hopefully hear that.
That is not That is not a way anybody that's emotionally intelligent or mature. That's blaming, shaming and gaslighting.
Yeah, yeah, and I appreciate hearing that. Yeah.
Yeah, you can't be I mean coursing somebody into love. That's manipulation and coersion, right, and causing into loving you because you are trying to convince them that you know and feel and whatever. And I've been there, I've done these horrible things. That's why I can call it out. You know, whether that's desperate on the woman's part or whatever it is, but it's not it's not Okay, there's nothing okay about that.
Yeah, well, it's you know, after all these years, I have a lot of compassion for why she is and was the way she was at that time, and after all these years, I have also.
Become emotionally invested.
I mean, we're broken up now, but he and I we have this little dance going on.
Probably trauma. It's called a trauma bond.
Yeah, I fear it's a trauma bond because it's interesting because I'm like, you know, curious timing once more with this whole thing. I we spoke on the phone because she had reached out to me, suggesting that in fact now she doesn't want children and that she wants to
come back to me. So we've spoken on the phone, and every time we do, I have this re encounter with these feelings of yearning and love for my connection to that, but they seem to be so disconnected with You're talking about all the gas landing and the toxicity and things like that, And at the beginning of the relationship, all I felt was the toxicity. All I felt was the pressure and not being seen and all these sorts
of things. So it's interesting I have this kind of disconnection between those experiences and this sense of yes, love.
And yearning that kind of comes out.
And I'm sure that's probably textbook trauma Ponting's tua.
Yeah, yeah, because it get used to this well, you know, and I also don't. One of the things that I'm writing a book called Uncoupling love because love shouldn't be a reason you're with somebody. I know that sounds weird. I'm actually sentimental, I'm romantic. I'm all that. But love is just one component. It's like respect being seen. I mean, there's so many other because the love part. We can fall in love with people that are completely brad for us,
completely wrong for us. We can we can mistake we can mistake desire for love. We can mistake comfort for love. We can mistake trauma, bonding for love, love accurate reason or you know, take if you took out, take that out for a moment, what do you have left?
Take the love out? Yeah? Mmm, well, I mean on on that. An observation I've had since we broke up is recognizing that not in it sounds bad, but I never really respected her. I found that he and I probably didn't really like her personality in a lot of ways.
This is a heartbreaking and scary to say on a on a podcast that people can listen to, but I I, yeah, I found her personality quite annoying and that I felt that he didn't take enough accountability, which is where the lack of respect came from.
Because I'm someone.
That has put so much effort into and feel like I've been so brave in that department, and to see someone that just didn't want to I didn't want to face certain things I think I could.
I struggle to respect that as a kind of quality.
Yeah, that's why you weren't going down the love trail. Men, So when men are into a woman, they they're kind of Everybody says it's all visual, but it's not actually true. There's you know, there's a geometry thing. But then it's like, do they line up with my life? Do you line up with my vision of you know, would this person like I can see them in alignment with my mission and what the things I want to do, and that if you don't have like and respect, that's kind of hard.
I know.
Yeah, I look first, first time, opening up my heart first relationship, I think there was a lot of not knowing that was coming along with the experiences I was having in my heart, and I also had a suspicion that I was someone that would run away from these things, being vulnerable. I've got a lot of relational trauma from my childhood, which is I think why there was such a delay for me starting and entering in a relationship.
I think I just struggled to know how to connect with people in a way that would elicit that.
Yeah, but yeah, I didn't really like or respect her.
I love I had, and honestly, my love was more of a compassionate love for the longest.
Time from yeah.
It's which and that's hard to when you say, you know, it's toxic, she was gaslighting you. It gets a bit confused with my compassion yeah for her, because I find it difficult to just be like, yeah, she was, you know so, but.
You could do well, So you know, it's as somebody who helps people change for a living, I see some of the worst of people and know that they can become the best of themselves. Well, you're as compassionate as you are. What you're doing is you were abandoned, not understood. So I'll say this is your childhood trauma abandoned, not understood.
You know, you were never enough, and so what happens is then you overcompensate for other people because you're like, if somebody had just loved me enough and not done that, they could have seen me really, and so.
I think you'd be this it's just funny too be the one that you're perceiving, you know.
Yeah, I mean I think, yeah, you reckon. She probably had a similar kind of experience, and so you were filling that space, yes, and that's what she saw on you. So let's not get this wrong. She you you are the one because you would allow her to mold you. But then the frustration of you not showing up the way she the validation. She didn't get validation that she needed from you.
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, yeah, I mean, and you know to to not let's not put all the blame on her. I came in with a basket full of problems as well, my grief case.
In my grief case, yeah, well, I mean there's never one dynamic. Sure, yeah, there are plenty of men listening to us to going dude, what the fuck, Like what do you mean to Like, you didn't respect her and you were like going.
Yeah, sounds kind of fucked up. I get it.
But but you know what, in the light in it, like I was disrespectful to her. It was more I just I wanted certain qualities out of a partner that I I was frustrated. Yeah, I just was like, come on, take more accountability, be more brave, you know, like let's face it. And like I felt I was doing that and she couldn't do it. And yeah, that's my skill set, is these kind of like feats of vulnerability and stuff like that, and I just wanted her to show up in that sense and then.
I could be there with her.
But yeah, I was doing I felt like I was doing all the heavy lifting when it came to introspection.
Oh, that is leaning in. So here here's the part that was leaning in.
Thank you again, that felt very valid.
You were leaning into the you know, we're not perfect and this kind of sun bad things happening here, and I want to be leaning in to support the growth that we both can do. Yeah, that's leaning, and that's leaning into some of the scariest stuff.
Thank you.
Yeah, I did a lot of that, all of it basically from my perspective, all the facing it and growing.
Yeah, because you had identified that safety was a paramount feeling for you to enter into a love space and be Yeah, you knew that there was going to be healing to be had from both parties. Yeah, and you were willing to step in and do that. And the stuff she was asking was premature.
To what Yeah, Yeah, she wanted she wanted me to take actions so she could feel safe. I needed to feel safe so I could I could take actions. Right, So we were and we've continued to be locked in that paradox years.
Yeah.
So as somebody who is the person that helps people, you know, get the safety spart, here's what I'm want to do. There's no cheese down that hole. You know what I mean by that? Don't go so a mouse goes looking for cheese down holes. Right, there is no cheese down this relationship. Hall. This is nothing you're going to fix with her. This is nothing she's going to fix with you. The is not And I'm bold enough, I'm very courageous. I help people get together and I help people break up.
But I can all that dynamic you just think is not one that can be outsmarted.
All.
No, because you're not supposed to be a therapist. I mean, you know, if she was if she had gone away and she's you know, like you guys broke up, she left, whatever it was, and you know it's two years later and she messages you and says, shit, man, I've been through like you know, I've been going to therapy and you know this women's group, and I just did all of this shit wrong. Right. If she came back in that way, would it be you know, okay to talk to her and say, well, tell me more. Yeah, but
a lot of people talk a good game too. What would be the what would you have had to have seen a change, because frequently when we break up with somebody, getting back together with him is not a good idea. Yeah, right, the reasons we broke up, unless it's like fifteen years later, God knows you in a union and you know everybody's different.
Yeah, totally.
Well, what I feel that would be a complete game change in between her and I is just accountability.
Yeah, no blame, no blame, but just her understanding.
Her pardonent and the kind of I guess the maybe not consequences of the way is the word, but the implications of her parliament.
Yeah, well, yeah, why do you think you were it for her? I mean, first of all, you know this is audio only, but let me tell you all guys again, here I'm objectifying another man. You're going to find out that as you listen to the show. Really Robert is thirty three, he is HELLI sexy, He's a good looking man. I can tell he's smart. So he's got a lot
of options out there. Thanks just saying, and so I can understand, you know, from just that purely where that she was like yes, hell yes, But what do you think what was she seeing in you that you think made her so like you're it?
Hm? I mean I don't know.
Obviously I'm not in her head, in her heart, but my feeling around this m because of her history. I think that she had a lot of she had a lot of sexual trauma, and she was actually I mean no, maybe I won't say this. This isn't because me vulnerable.
You can keep yeah, absolutely, yeah.
So I yeah, she had a lot of sexual trauma.
And the kind of people that she dated in the past were like drug dealers, like you know, kind of bad boy archetypes, people with a lot of money, but like who were probably quite emotionally disconnected.
I'll promote.
Well, I understand there are decent men in a lot of ways, but they are you know, came with all of it disconnection and issues, and then I came along and I feel as though, I, yeah, I'm introspective, you know, emotionally intelligent and sweet, you know, sweet and about to.
Say so the sweet in general. So what she did is swung from men who lean and really are and take what they want to a guy who's stepped back and just sitting back here in the suite.
Yeah, she used to call me my nickname. My nickname from her was sweet Potato.
Absolutely, And so for her to go from that that juxtae session was also going to be really difficult because what she wants is that other things she wanted you to become you to be the safe sweet potato you are, but then take the vibe. Then get to the take.
Vibe totally, whereas I just stayed. But also like you know, sweet potato, but also like the the dark side of sweet Potato is like like, uh, you know, I brought in a lot of things that I think she didn't expect. Like I think she she saw the love in me, right, Like I have the capacity to have compassion, have love, and to see someone. And I saw I saw her, and I like held space for that and was gentle.
And I think that's what she was always yearned for because of her trauma, right, And I gave her that, but I didn't give the whole package, probably of what if she was seeking. And I always felt that kind of paradox in terms of what I felt that she wanted from me, Like she wanted me to be sweet and gentle, but then when.
I tried to the couch and then bang couch.
But I wasn't just that, Like I felt like I had a lot of qualities that weren't sweet and weren't gentle. And I also, my whole journey has been trying to embody masculinely and understand and every time I tried to do that in any capacity, it felt like she pushed her away because I mean, look, I'm able to speak of this because I've gotten a lot of therapy of last and tried to unpack it. But I felt that her wounds were from the masculine, so.
She would push back on that a lot.
You know, I felt like I couldn't you know, even a healthy version, even even a healthier.
Version of masculinity.
She really rejected it seemed or made it very very difficult for me to explore or to kind of get to.
She just want to sweep to tether.
Yeah, but then she didn't, you know exactly. So it's like that, And you know what, I'm loving this conversation, Robert. There are so many men that are caught what I consider really good men, caught in this really weird dynamic. Yeah, you know, taking their power back. Wow, whatever that looks like, right, So taking their power back. They want safety, but they
still want the other thing. I think I wrote a Facebook post on at the paradox of like a woman who wants safety and that rogue, you know, like how to and and what the heck does a man like do? Like, because are you supposed to read the mind? Like, so, when is it you want me to be your girlfriend and be safe and hold you here and cuddle up and watch chick Flix? And when is it that you want me to bang you on the back of the couch like riot?
Yeah, that's hardly yeah, And it eventually got to the point where obviously the ladder didn't happen and there was no room for that to happen, and every time I tried to make it happen, I was doing it wrong. Regardless I didn't read, regardless of how much work and how much safety and all this stuff I tried to create around it, you know.
And then look, this is a little bit of event.
But then and this is also I shouldn't have done this, but she used to leave her diary just on the on the kits encounter.
Just leave it there, you know.
If she was leaving her diary on the kitchen counter, she was helping you.
Buck.
Everyone said that, which makes which deepens the wound. That really deepens the wound.
Of course.
Anyway, so I I go and flicking through it, and I come across a page which the text was that she resents my lack of massive She's really put off by my lack of masculinity, is what she said. And yeah, that's that was really really difficult and painful to hear because it felt like I couldn't be that. I couldn't you know, there was no there was no room for me to even begin to explore that.
Yeah, yeah, painful.
Well this is this is you're not alone, and that this is going to be so valuable because there's so many men that I consider really good men going through this very thing, right, Yeah, and most women. So here's something that a lot of people don't know. So one can go along and be like seemingly together and then get into what a safe relationship is and then totally
fall apart. Her sexual trauma will come up. So in fact, the more safe she is in the relationship, the more the trauma is ready to be born.
Right. I noticed that.
It's interesting she came in hyper sexual and then flip, And then I feel like the moment we connected flip to hyper sexuality kind of like which you mind saying, is like a kind of classic someone with sexual trauma kind of behavior.
Yeah, either hypo or hyper and then the hard flip when they feel emotionally more safe because a lot of time, if the woman is hyper sexual, her trauma is tied up with anxiety. Yeah, you create safety, that anxiety goes away. She gets turned off and gets angry and bitchy, and she wants you to step into that masculine unsafe space. But she didn't pick the unsafe man exactly. How the hell do you even do that?
Yeah? Totally, Yeah, so.
You're not crazy.
Oh, that's good.
You were probably all this the right.
And you know what it really, you know, beautiful mirror though, like a really exquisite mirror from the universe, because it really highlighted and emphasized I guess my I guess issues
around those topics. But it's made me feel it's really put the spotlight on I guess that part within me that isn't doesn't feel embodied in my masculine or well as my own has my owntot around sexuality, you know, isn't able to create safety, isn't able to lead, and just that whole I don't know, cheeseboards, using.
Cheese analogies, cheese analogy.
Of stuff relating to my masculinity in the world, and how I just don't feel I have any of them things.
Nice, any of them things well, I think, but you know, it's like what and we explore this and a lot of a lot of topics come back, you know, in this whole show about this idea of like you know, what is man and what is uh? You know, all of you and it's it's like if and then there's people like David Dida and all these fuck boys and all these.
I hear you bring up David Dita because he probably fund.
Yeah, he fucked a lot of people up. I just I just tell you because I think that I think that it's not a one thing. We shouldn't be all leading or all submitting or all that. It shouldn't be like that. So for women who get lured into the Neo Tatra stuff or the David Dydas stuff, and it's like, oh, I'm just gonna not feel safe until you step up and make me feel safe, It's like, where the fuck is your personal accountability? I will take women down when I hear that shit. I'm like, first of all, we
all create safety within ourselves. The first person I need to trust is myself, right, and both parties have to show up to be vulnerable. I mean, if we're both waiting for each other to be safe enough to vulneral, nobody's doing shit. We're all just going, well, you go, no, you go. I love you. I told my new guy, like, hey, if I you know if I love you, If I say I love you, I need you to understand that doesn't mean we're committed. This means it I'm having a
feeling of for you. So this is what the I love you doesn't automanically create an agreement anything.
Yeah, And he was at one.
Point to say to me, I want to support your heart. I'm not feeling the same way you are right now. Yeah, wow, I see that, right yeah.
And then if you either receive that is probably the quickest way to his heart.
Oh, there you go.
It would make him feel safe, right and make him feel like it's okay for him to feel how he's feeling, which allows, I guess probably opens up the door for him to feel that love if it's going to happen, right.
Right, So we tend to m we make so many assumptions. Yea, words and what we're saying, and so many assumptions, assumptions, just expectations, unspoken agreements, all of these things. And I'm so I like clarity so hard that when it was obvious to everybody that we were in a relationship like five hours a day texting on the phone, what I mean, we'd have to have broken up, you know, I mean that's a relationship, right. But I told him I need you to ask me. He's like, what do you mean?
I need you to literally ask me to be in a relationship with you, because I'm not taking any assumptions here on.
Anything, right, All right, sure, so if we all.
Got vulnerable enough to be clear and except where the other person's clarity is and not even though it's all personal. You know, some people say nothing's personal. That's bullshit. It's all personal, and because it's an end world, it's all personal and it's not.
All right, yeah, hold both of them.
That's emotional intelligence.
Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. You know, it's funny.
I was very I was very vulnerable and real with her, but sadly my my vulnerability or my my reality probably was was challenging and messy for her. You know, I would just I would just say, like, yeah, I'm attracted other women. Of course, are like old men are you know, you know what I mean.
Like you're stating there's beautiful women.
In the Yeah, like I'm totally attracted other women, you know, like and like so things like that.
I would just at the start, I was.
So bold in the way I would say things, and then it's just obviously I triggered lots of fears in her, and then those come up in a really heavy way, and then I pull back and then I'm not so willing to state.
Well, and so you know that's an interesting thing too. So over sure is there such a thing as too much information? Is there ever such such thing as over sharing? So here's what I would say in new relationships, if somebody's if somebody's insecure, and a lot of people are in new love and new relationships, a lot of people are insecure. Very people have secure attachment styles. I mean, that's a rarity to have a secure attachment style people.
And so you know, should we we want to be honest, we want to be straight up, and we also should calibrate it. It's an end world, right, So what does calibration look like? If if you spend more time talking about your attraction to other people than your attraction to the person that you're in space with, you're doing one or two things. Hey, you're trying to tell them that you're not that serious about them and they need to be heads up. But you need to be more clear
because that wouldn't be it. You're not ready to be in an exclusive anything. So you use that as a reason as a way to try to keep that boundary that was boundaries.
That may have been It may have been carry.
You didn't want to be sucked in. That's my feeling. If she came around so bold, you were trying to hold a line.
Yeah, I was trying to keep keep it real, I guess maybe yeah, just be like look and you know, I'm I'm the complex person and I don't really know what I'm doing the things like that, right.
Yeah, And she was when she's leaning into the hard certainty, you're saying, there's there's place for uncertainty here. I'm not the certainty that you are, and.
So yeah, probably defensively.
Yeah, yeah, So I think that every relationship is a learning experience, yeah, right, and being real also needs calibration. I mean, like sometimes stuff that wants to come out of our mouth, I don't know should it come out of our mouth?
I mean, yeah, that's it.
Well, it's definitely one for me because you know too, things being like being somebody who teaches this stuff and being autistic and being you know, polymath. I can I can say some stuff that's like holy shit, really did you have to say that?
Yeah? Totally yeah, yeah, so.
But I want the person that I'm with to say that, holy shit, Tanya, really, did you mean all that? Or is that really how you wanted it? To come through.
Yeah, yeah, totally communication. Yeah, yeah, no, I hear it.
You know, my belief, which might be a naive belief, and the belief that I was always coming from, was that the capacity to be really real about all these things, including things that aren't like yeah edgy to me, that is that is safety, that is intimacy, that is trust.
That was always my feeling of my philosophy. So if I could openly tell her these things, like from from my ends, that was me and like basically telling her that I trust her and I want her to be part of the whole thing, you know, I want her to be intimate with me and to know my inner thoughts and that in a kind of way that probably was a bit miscalculated, But no, I would.
Say that you're probably right. I've never been met in my intimacy, my too much information intimacy. Nobody's ever met me in that space until this guy. This is the first guy that giving me as much as I'm giving him of the transparency of everything. Yeah, that has created safety and calibration of oh my god, you are possible. Where the hell did you come from? Because yeah, sure, so I would agree with you that with the right person. If we all want to be seen, right, we all
want to do except those it's the thing. So for you then crating, you can look and say I'm somebody who's bold. You're bold. So there's a lot of leaning you're doing. You're leaning into the stuff. Then most people never go near okay, and that's your calibration and disqualifier or qualifiers. If somebody can't eat you in that space, they're not ready for that. It's not your job to bring them.
There, right right, yeah, here it.
You know, don't do that, must must go. Oh I've had too many hits. You know you're new. You said you're new in this. This is your first big relationship. So that's the newness. I'll tell you. You know at sixty three years into this, what you know many years into this, decades into this, that it doesn't that doesn't change. If you water yourself down, if you change the way
you want to meet somebody. And when I say meat, I mean intimacy right that meeting you're going to be really unhappy because that's I spent most of my life doing that. Somebody can't take my intensity. I operate at ten percent of what I'm capable of for most relationships. That's really sad. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Now I don't have to I'm holy you kidding me. Really, So we're all
qualifying and disqualifying potential connections. But if you can stand in the space of being on your own, like you're happy with being alone, then you're not going to pick from desperation.
M m.
Well that's suddenly a topic i'd love to address in the future.
Well, we're going to We're coming back, so we're gonna.
Yeah, there's a lot of things around that i'd love.
To Yeah, we're going to put a little ribbon on this for this episode, and we went pretty you're pretty fast and Robert is brave and so I really this is exactly what I was hoping for. And somebody's show us and just you know, being able to just roll back and forth and be real with that and like I said, very valuable because I can't tell you how many men I know that I talk to that I coach that are like I'm there for my woman, and
it's a like a circus. She's a yes, she's a no, she said this, she's a that, she's like, oh, you know, all over the place. And then like I said, God knows, we'll get David Dida involved and everything will get sucked up. So anybody listening to this, that's like, I mean, Intimate Communion is a great book if you take it with a grain of salt. I mean, David Died is a misogynist. Let's get real. I mean, like we need to hear about that and stop thinking that somehow he is spiritually elevated. Man.
I read Way of the Superior Man when I was like fifteen or something. It's really Yeah, put some bolts in my head.
I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's right, that's right.
Came around.
Yeah, all the all the younger men of today. I'm so sorry. Yeah, avoid that guy and several of the you know influence on Instagram that are telling you. I have a debate for anybody that's never seen a guy named Zach Roady and I went toe to toe. He's a man who teaches men how to lead and women how to you know, not lead. He's his is men can't learn anything from women. I'm kind of like, what is mother not teach him anything? But that men shouldn't
be taking women's advice about it. Anyway, he threw down a gauntlet once on a Facebook wall that was like, I'll take on any teacher that says you know and so I of course a bunch of people said Tanya so and he put he laid it all out. You have to go live, you have to live, you know, call it out, be live. Can't take it off your wall. I'm like done, done, check check check. And on YouTube he took it off his wall within like I think three he lost fourteen thousand people in three weeks. It
was on YouTube Zach Roady and Tiny of Diamond. But and I show up in a It's It's video. I showed up in a lavender Kashmir sweater with a pink tiara freaking on and I which is like the people that knew me were like, what the fuck don you And just was like, well, hey, Zach, can you show me how to I'm not quite sure how to do that. I was had my voice, I had my feminine voice going. It was just all like yeah, And then I just took him apart scientifically, like we're not interrupting each other.
And I'm like, okay, no I did. I didn't interrupt him. He kept interrupting me.
Yeah.
Yeah, so there's a lot of things out there that are screwing things up. I mean, we need to be able to be all of us understand the masculine action, masculine leaning right. Everything's very simple. It's lean in or lean out. We can take masks em and off of everything.
It's stand, lean in, lean out, very simple contraction expansion, right, and that if you're both standing, and if you're both leaning in, you're going to have a different dynamic than if you're both leaning out, or that you're going back and forth. I mean, intercourse is literally a enter out enter I mean like the Bay, six year of birth and everything else in the world, and playing with that energy even subtly. You know, I always leave every episode I leave with a how to, So we're going to
wrap this in a how to. Just practice without words, practice the actual energetic of leaning into something and leaning out, literally with your physical body. If you're sitting talking to somebody, lean in and see what happens and what changes without you saying anything different, or lean out and watch that dynamic change at a subconscious level, whether that's with your kids, uh, a friend, your lover, anything like that. Men tend to want to drive in. Women want them to drive in.
And yet with if it's always driving in, which is what she was doing with you, is that masculine drive. This is what we need to do. We're doing this, we're doing this, we're doing this. You were trying to take some of that lead, but she was a note of that, and so we have to be able to dance back and forth. We don't all have the same skill sets. It's ridiculous for a man to think he should be leading the bookkeeping in the house when his partner's better at math. But it's like, oh, well, ways
she made her. I respect him when he fucks it up all the time.
I remember this episode. You spoke about this exactly. Start from the top. I started from the top time, from episode right, and.
So that whole, that whole, it's it's like, we're going to respect people more when they're running their skill sets and we're giving them space for that skill set. Okay, so practice lean in, practice lean out, Robert. I are going to come back because there's lots more fun stuff to unpack. And I really appreciate your vulnerability. This is
leaned to me. Vulnerability is leaning in. If you have the skill set to lean into a difficult conversation, If you have the skill set to hold that space for somebody, you might have to do that. Sorry, that's my best friend who's just got back from Hawaii, so she keeps trying to call me. If you have all of that ability to lean in and hold that space, that is a container. And it doesn't matter if it's a masculine
or feminine container. It's a container of safety. We all want it, but we can reject it and be scared of it. But I would leave you just in case I die and we never get back to having another conversation. I would up quickly with the there's no cheese down that hole in this relationship.
Yeah, it's hot to hear it, but yeah, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's more things to learn, more experiences to have, but you definitely need to be met in a space that respects and wants your biggest skill set, which is creating that safe container.
Thanks, Yeah, makes sense.
Somebody needs to be a hell yes to that. And I guarantee you that the women that are listening are like, who the hell is he? Okay, and I'm gonna be.
Getting I'll tell somewhere in Australia.
You have to find me.
He's somewhere in Australia, just saying, you know, when everybody tells me that, I got to tell.
You that, wait until off the next episode where I go through the big list of all of my problems.
There we go.
Then we'll see.
All right, I love that. So he's authentic. Here he is. He's going to say, I don't want to leave you with all the good stuff, only we want to make sure that you have all of the other stuff, like he seems to be attracted to women. Don't know what stuff with that, but there, oh there's a thing. So all right, everybody, thanks so much. We'll be back.