All right. Welcome, brothers. Welcome, Ben. It's good to be with you. Appreciate all of you tuning in. This is Ian Hawks and Ben Timby coming at you from the MSM studios. Yo-yo, let's go. Kelowna and Austin uniting through the virtual space to bring you a little podcast. Something raw, something intimate, something that's alive. Let's just see what comes through. So I'd love for you to start us off with a little check in Ben. What's alive and moving in your life? Yeah, thanks, Hawks.
Thanks for leading this and initiating it. What's a life for me right now? Is the fall season shedding? I've been feeling a lot of, a lot of shedding in my life and also in a lot of the men I serve and men in community, the brotherhood and also in the women, my partner sisterhood and the collective as within. So without. And you know, something I'm really celebrating is moving through shedding with more ease, with more awareness and and less
resistance, you know? Yeah, that's what feels most alive for me right now. Yeah, feel you, brother. Thanks for your check in. I'll check in here as well. This is Hawks checking in from Kelowna, BC. Also feeling the season of fall. The days are getting shorter here. We have a little bit of frost in the morning some days and it's getting cooler and darker. And I've been feeling that shedding, the contraction, I would say that actually comes before the full shedding is
where I'm at right now. And there's been some shedding in my life. As you know, Ben, my father recently passed away and that has been a very significant shedding, letting go and still feeling very much in the contraction of that. And there's been an impact that the inner contraction that I'm moving through is having, you know, my external life. And you know, what feels irrelevant to speak to here is how it's influenced and impacted my intimate relationship with my partner.
And this is not new to me. I have noticed this pattern when I'm going through something internally that so often is reflected to me externally and especially by my primary mirror, my partner, my lover. And with my dad passing away about two, 2 1/2 months ago, I've noticed there's less energy and outward exuberance coming from me.
And that's impacting the polarity in my relationship because I'm not feeling the same vibrancy to step into my masculine role and to step into directing and initiating intimacy. And there's this deep feeling of actually just really wanting to go into my feminine, go into the emotional experience, go into the the darkness per SE.
And it's been an ongoing challenge for me to honor that and to also bring myself to show up in my relationship in the ways that I'm used to, in the ways that I know really nourish and nurture our connection. And my partner is immensely understanding and patient and compassionate. And I know this pressure is really just coming from me.
And there's a feeling of guilt that is emerging in me around letting down the relationship, letting down myself, letting down my partner by not showing up in the ways that I know I can, in the ways that I know are are true to me and so positively impactful on our relationship. And then when that is thriving, how much that positively impacts me and helps to lift me up.
And I have felt recently like I'm in this kind of negative feedback loop, which means that the action or lack of action is, you know, actually maybe it's a positive feedback loop where the action or lack of action feeds the cycle that depletes the capacity to create the action that that would actually bring about more balance. So as I feel the inner contraction, I'm less inclined to engage intimately.
And as I engage less intimately, I feel further contraction within me. And it's just this like disconnecting force at play that that I'm I'm well aware of. And and yet I'm still humbled as I witness that and and move through it. So that's what's alive in me right now. Yeah, bro, I hear you in that. I see you in that. I feel you in that. And that runs deep in me as well. So I really appreciate you bringing it forward.
Yeah, that loop that I can often get caught in, which is very similar of yeah, just I call it like a negative manifestation loop. The way it shows up for me is more in unworthiness, fear, fear of abandonment by my partner, fear of not being enough, which feels maybe similar to what you're talking about. Like I'm not performing. Like if I stop bringing value, I'll no longer be loved. Yeah. That one runs really deep.
And that vicious cycle that often like manifests that outward reality reflecting the internal state that you're talking about is I think that's that's my my deepest pain point of my entire existence as far as I've experienced it on this planet. Like I've gone into really, really dark spaces allowing that that vacuum, you know, to consume me and to, to remain powerless to it.
And yet I know even in the surrender to it, even in the crumbling and disillusion, you know, if that's what's called for. Like I've also found new life on the other side, just like the seasons going into winter, the shedding, the death and then the new budding of life in ways that, yeah, it's truly such a mystery.
But but I do think the theme of, you know, what comes up for me is the, the theme of when to surrender and let it all be fully felt and when to command and light the fire, you know, and, and break the pattern, break the loop and just get the fuck out. And that's been an ongoing lesson for me of navigating both. I sometimes I think there's a way of doing both actually at the same time. I'm curious if anything comes up for you and that and just how you're navigating this time
yourself. Yeah, I, I hear you on that contemplation around when is it time to continue to go into the darkness and to feel the feelings and to wallow per SE, if there's ever a time for that, I think there's mixed, mixed camps on that. But certainly to feel our emotions is, is valuable in my experience and understanding. And, and then the question of at what point is has that feeling been felt enough? And it's time to, you know, step up and step into the responsibilities and into more
exuberance. And, and actually, you know, there's a faking it to make it per SE of, of being like, all right, I'm just going to put on a smile and I'm going to go into my day and I'm going to get up at 5:00 AM and go to the gym right away and not stay in bed a little bit longer, you know, kind of stuck in that immobility. And when is it time to, to really kick into gear and, and finding that balance? And you know, for me, it's a day-to-day, it fluctuates day-to-day.
And, and certainly over the last 2 1/2 months, speaking specifically to this, to this primary contraction I've been experiencing, it's grief comes in waves and there's big waves and little waves and I feel like I'm in a bigger one right now. But even amidst that, there's, there's days when it's easier and days when it actually for sure, I know it's right to just get up and get to it. And I can have a powerful day. And then the next day it might be completely different.
And, and then there can be a confusion within me of, you know, OK, is this something that I can overcome if I just do the things that I did yesterday? Why is it not feeling the same? And so that's, you know, it's just a little, a little take on that. I still, you know, my sense is it's a balance and there's, there's a way to honor both. And, you know, one of the, one of the insights I've had is, OK, where can I createspace create the structure for me to really
unplug and go in inwards. And then through the structuring of that, allowing the, the space, the container, you know, creating the masculine container for me to really go into my feminine and honour that. And then on the other side of that, create the container for me to really go into my action and my doing. And, and I, I know that there's
more opportunity for that. Something that's come clear for me as it's time for me to get back out into the Bush and actually immerse myself in the container of the feminine. By being out in nature and removing myself from technology and from the workspace where it's more difficult for me to really let go and unplug from the responsibilities and, and duties that continually, you know, present themselves and can be nagging at my attention, asking for my attention.
And so that's one, that's one way that I'm, that I'm moving through it and, and taking action is creating the, the space and the structure to really unplug and go fully into that. So then I can come back on the other side and be fully here and be fully in my responsibilities, in the business, in the relationships and and in my my purpose. Yeah, appreciate you sharing those, man. I think if anyone tuning into this podcast might be asking, you know, what does this have to
do with men's sexual mastery? Well, you'd mentioned in the beginning of your check in with noticing the effect of your internal state in your relationship. And just to just to tie it in a little more context, you know that how we show up in the world is how we're going to show up in the bedroom. We talk about this all the time. How we show up in the bedroom is how we show up in the world in this line of work. It's not performative.
Ultimately, like your partner is going to feel everything inside of you. You know, your your partner is she's an Oracle, you know, and she's going to feel, I always say, like she feels things that I don't even know I feel or she's like feeling things I'm thinking or contemplating before
I've even made the thought. It's just so I think this depth of ownership of our experience and maintaining our own Wellness and being able to lead ourselves through the inevitable storms of life, through the weather, you know, and needing to go into this more, you could call it more feminine or yen or, you know, space this, the waters, the grieving, or even just what
you're talking about. Going out into nature, replenishing ourselves and ensuring that we got us is essential for us to show up in partnership. In fact, if we can't do that, we're not fit to be in partnership. Actually, you know, or we could be figuring out as we go. We're all doing that. But this is the core of leadership, ultimately, to be able to face our own demons. And like we talk about Make Love
and not war with those demons. You know, we're learning how to bring the compassion and love and, you know, care to these parts like, like that motherly, feminine energy, while also bringing the father, you know, the assertive father who's also like, all right, son, I know that you're hurt. Like, you know, the mom's there when he falls down on his bike and she's there to help clean up his wounds and take a little
time to reset. And then when the time comes, dad's back here like, all right, son, time to time to try again, you know, time to stand back up again. And I, I sense that when we have that support within ourselves of integrated masculine and feminine, you know, leadership, you could say when we have an integrated household within ourselves and we have this range to embody that for our, our partners, you know, whether or not they're feminine or masculine, these things aren't gendered, right?
Like when your partner's going through her, her feminine mood swings of her, let's say her cycle every month, you know, you're always there. And maybe that's more of a common experience for many women by and large, But also when you're in, you're in, you're grieving or you're needing to drop into your feminine to have a, a partner who's cultivated her ability to be in a masculine.
And, you know, for us to be in our feminine and expand this range of being able to attune ourselves to what's present and become the solution and become the medicine. Like the more we can bring that to ourselves, the more we can bring that to partnership. You know, and I, this is a lot of the work we do in brotherhood, you know, and definitely in our community and men's sexual mastery and, you know, even just you and I as brothers talking about it right
here. So that's just to connect the dots a little bit more on, you know, the context of all this. And I'm curious if you got anything else you want to add to that. Definitely, yeah, a couple things came up. You know, first, because you spoke to it more recently, the, the dynamic of putting on the
different hats. I refer to it as energetic flexibility and that ability to, to say, OK, actually, I'm really, I'm, I'm really, it's important for me that I honor the feminine expression within me right now. And it would be really supportive if my partner could put on her masculine hat for, for a time here and just hold me in that with the understanding, with the agreement that we're not switching roles here permanently.
It's a temporary thing so that so that this experience in me can be honoured and, and moved through so that it's not continuing to stay stuck and, and impact other aspects of life. And, and I think that that's something that my partner and I do effectively the majority of the time and something I've noticed in this particular experience because this contraction has felt much more
drawn out. There's, well, kind of what I was speaking to earlier in the call, this dissipation of polarity, which will happen when, when we're not in our dominant pole. And so there's, you know, and there's other, there's other ways for me to be held by the masculine, which is what we we do in men's work. There's so many opportunities in brotherhood and men's workspaces for a man to actually go into his feminine experience, his emotional body, his processing of that so.
His partner doesn't have to. Exactly. Yeah. And, and I'm well resourced in those ways. And, you know, Monday and Tuesday of this week, I was in person brotherhood spaces in town here, and I noticed a shift Wednesday morning, like a light, a lightness and a more openness and connection and more polarity in my relationship. And there's yeah, there's there's so much there that I could go into.
But I actually want to kind of transition into the second point that that came up for me after you were sharing there, which is the ownership piece that you were speaking to a little earlier. And this is, again, to bring it back to how does this relate to our work in men's sexual mastery? How does this relate to the evolution of our approach and consciousness and awareness to
intimacy and polarity? Especially because a pattern that I've noticed in my life is when I am in a contraction and feeling less centered and feeling less grounded, feeling less vibrant in myself. I'm being hard on myself in certain ways. If I'm not meeting the expectations that I've set for myself, that all depletes my own sense of worth, like you were saying. And how that actually, how I've noticed that shows up for me is there's a tendency, there's an old pattern that attempts to
project that onto someone else. And so if I'm in, if there's thunderclouds around me per SE, and I'm kind of in a mood, there's this part of me that wants to externalize that and say, like, oh, if my partner was different right now, I wouldn't be feeling this way. And you know, this could show up in polarity, like, oh, if my partner was more in her feminine right now, I wouldn't feel like I'm out of my dominant pull. And this is a pattern that I'm very aware of and I can notice
it right away these days. And and yet it's still, it's, it's still there, it's still working in the background to, to try and sabotage or evade the ownership that I know is actually really just mine to take. And so when I take a step outside of that and I become the observer, I can look down at myself and realize, oh, like this isn't actually about my partner and what she's doing or
not doing right now. This is happening internally for me. And I'm just projecting that on the world around me. And so I can catch myself before criticizing or, you know, putting the blame on someone else, my partner per SE in this example, and actually really just turning that around and being like, all right, all righty. And where am I not? Where, where am I not stepping up here? Where am I not living up to my expectations?
Where am I falling short of what I know is required of me right now to actually feel really good in myself? And and then the rest of the world around me is, is going to feel good too when I'm in that place. And so, yeah, I guess this would be, it's an invitation to myself and to to anyone out there who might feel some resonance with this to really check, check ourselves and notice if I'm wanting or desiring my partner to be something different or to
be in a different way. Not even our part, my partner. It could be anyone else that we're in relationship with in that moment to turn it around and say, like, where, where am I actually not meeting the standard within myself? And that's all we can really control. So taking that command as you spoke to earlier and saying, OK, well, what's required of me being that assertive father, like, yeah, OK. I, I, I see that you're feeling down right now and I see that you're projecting that on the
world around you. And So what actually could you do within yourself, for yourself to help create the shift that you're looking to, to then see and receive from the world around you? Yeah, yeah. That, you know, there's one of my mentors said in any given moment, we have a choice. We can be living in heaven or hell, and heaven is being a creator, you know, is taking full responsibility. That this is my experience, even if it's difficult, you know, but I, I'm owning it and I'm not
blaming. I'm not a victim. Anything outside of me, that's how we take our power back. Hell is being the victim. It's the powerlessness, which I think full circle coming back to that, the loop, you know, the self sabotaging loop, which again, can also be there could be medicine and letting things collapse and fall down
sometimes. But if it's becoming the a form of victimhood, I think that's the subtle nuance where like what we say all the time in this work, law is governed by intention, which means like something could be medicine or a poison, depending on our intention, consciously or unconsciously, what's motivating it.
You know, for instance, BDSM or something we talked about in this work, you know, someone spanking somebody really hard could be traumatic or pleasurable depending on the energy of what's behind it, the person delivering it, the person receiving it. It's the same thing I think with our reality that we find ourselves in and us, as, you know, conscious creators, how are we choosing to respond?
You know, we're dealt these hands in life and like the only thing we're responsible for is playing our hands the best we can. And cursing the cards or cursing the game just just makes things a lot more, a lot less pleasant. And yeah, and something else as you were sharing that, that piece around even, you know, I'm just noting like even with the level of work that a guy can be in, and we hear this all the time. Guy shared it on the call
yesterday. Actually, some the new cohort we just launched, there's some guys in our new cohort who are, have done a lot of work. They've invested huge amounts of time and energy into their self development and saying like, man, I feel like I with all the amount of work I'm in, like it's sometimes it's hard to to be feeling like a beginner again. And we say all the time, new levels, new devils, that's it.
And I think learning how to dance with the seasons, dance with the the challenges, smile into the resistance rather than resisting it because what we resist persists. All of these things are core reframes, core updates to our software, shifting from the victim into the creator of our reality. And man, just the massive transformation that happens as we continue doing that, it's just never ceases to amaze me. Yeah, it's humbling being in a place like this. I can, yeah, feel resonance with
that feeling of come so far. I've done so much work. And here I find myself again in this, in this difficult place. And what's different is the level of awareness. What's different is the tools that I have and the awareness of how and why and where to apply them. And yet it still requires that willful energy to really smile through it, as you say, and, and apply and really integrate all that I have learned and, and apply it to this situation.
And every time I do, when that exhale comes and it's like, oh, OK, I'm on the other side of it now. It further solidifies those teachings and further solidifies that knowing of, Oh yeah, OK, I do know how to navigate this and I'm navigating it way better than I used to. And and yeah, I'm human, still gonna, still gonna meet these edges, still gonna, still gonna be faced with challenges. And it helps to to keep keep me humble and always a student.
Black belt swagger, white belt mind Hawks. I know we're wrapping up here, but I, I wanted just for just for anyone listening to hear about, you know, for me, when your dad passed, the timing of that, this massive launch we were in and how you showed up. Like as you were describing what you just did meeting it and how you showed up on those calls with the biggest launch we had, you know, a couple months ago.
I would love if you, if you're open to sharing it, just how, if you could share just a little recount of what that experience was like with your dad passing and how it affected you. And, and yeah, how you ended up showing up on that first call. Literally was it within 48 hours I think of your dad passings you were leading. Yeah, more like 16 hours.
Say, oh, sixteen. OK, Yeah. Maybe 12, Yeah, yeah, I think our first call was at 9:00 AM Pacific, which would have been, yeah, it was about 1214 hours. It was the morning after. The morning after, yeah, yeah, that was a wild time. You know, there's an element of shock or disbelief I, I feel that was present in those initial days after his passing where it hadn't really set in fully yet. And and yet it was incredibly
real. As you know, I was there in the hospital with him the week leading up to his passing and the night that he passed. And, and I was very, very close with that process of death and dying and had a lot of opportunity to to be with that and to process it real time with him in the hospital in those final days.
And I think there was, you know, the biggest thing that comes up for me with showing up on those calls and in that big launch that happened to coincide with with my dad's passing, was this knowing of his support like this, this knowing that he's there. And actually me showing up to the fullest of my capability and capacity in this line of work, in my business, in my purpose, in my mission.
That was in that moment how I could honor him and and what he would have wanted for me. And so it was choiceless and effortless. And actually I felt a huge surge of support in this. It's kind of like the night after a medicine ceremony, staying up till 5:00 AM deep in the medicine space, getting a couple hours of sleep, and then waking up the next day and feeling like, whoa, I'm just so full of energy. I could take on the world right
now. And even though I am physically should be depleted from this massive experience, there's just infinite energy for me to move forward with positivity and light. And, and I really felt that that next day, similarly, like I had very little sleep and had been missed in the hospital for a week, living in the in the room with my dad, not getting great sleep and physically very
depleted. But showing up that next day, I felt this surge of support from him and the knowing that this is how I, this is how I serve and this is this is what is right. And this is what I'm being called up and into. And so I felt a lot of strength actually, that that first day when we were launching our cohorts and that, you know, now having more time passed, I'm actually feeling more and more as, as the time elapses. It's yeah, it's presenting
differently. And so that's where that's what that's what comes through for to speak to that initial launch that we were in and and where I'm at now, yeah. Yeah, thanks bro. I remember you stepping into that meeting and it just reminded me of what you're speaking to. I'm just the, I felt like your father moving through you, you know, and just that when we talk about the, the fatherly energy to like pick up the little boy who's struggling and like lift him up.
And I felt that in such a huge way. And I know everybody on the call felt that. And it's just such an honor to, yeah, be sharing this journey with you, man, building this out. And I know your dad is with us and here in spirit even right now. Shout out Tom, just as your brother. I just want to continue to remind you of his presence and that it's always there. And may each and every one of us know that too.
You know, our whether our fathers are around or not, our grandfathers or great grandfathers, we've got all our ancestors just right there behind us. And and we talk a lot about our higher selves, which to me feels like a almost like a fractal in every single one of my ancestors that I'm just the living manifestation of right now.
And continuing to come into that breath, just like you spoke of slowing down, meeting it, you know, with as we've spoken to with ease and stepping into the the eye of the hurricane if we're caught in these storms and tuning into the energy of your father and your grandfather and your great grandfather and the truest version of you. You know who I know one day will be a father and grandfather and become an ancestor. It's just really worth highlighting that energy.
I know for me that just I can feel my whole body just lighting up with honor and presence and clarity. Like I know how to navigate any storm in life. Even if I forget, even if I think I don't know, even if I don't actually know what to do next. It's just one breath at a time, one second at a time, moving into the unknown, continuing to be the tip of the spear, you know, standing on the shoulders of giants, you know, your father
being one of them. And my father, you know, when everyone's listening is our fathers and mothers. And you know, may we continue to, yeah, just show up in the the most loving, compassionate and also heart aligned and assertive ways possible in service to all those who came before us and all those who will follow.
Cause ultimately, when it's not about me, that's when I can unlock the biggest impact, you know, the biggest, just the most epic life, you know, being able to be here as, as these amazing creatures on this planet. So yeah, and just in service to love ultimately, like that's what we're here for. That's what the mission is at MSMI. Think that's what every single human's ultimate desire is,
right? And we often say that within our work, we're here to serve the future generations of children who are waiting to be born into this world, into families that are cohesive, that are strong, where the men have integrated sexual energy and so do the women. The men are supported to be the most epic lovers, the most epic fathers and brothers that they can be and to have, you know, an, an intimacy in their partnership that a fire that is
stoked. We say that warms the entire house like the hearth of intimacy of not just sexuality. What we're talking about today is how to maintain that fire as you're noticing it's getting, it's going down. The polarity's dropping. I'm not making love as much with my partner 'cause I'm in the season. But still, I know that this is just a season like that.
It's raining on my fire right now and I'm doing my best to like keep it for, you know, breathing into it, still get that fire and it's OK. And, you know, the more of us are here together to, you know, I'm here alongside you too. We're both stocking fires. And yeah, that's just what we're
doing here. But the more that we can support that and men, the more stable homes will be, the more stable the world will be. But you know, and these children who want to be born into these, you know, the future families, man, can you just imagine? Like I know you and I both like being able to have loving, committed partnerships and brotherhood, you know, and community and family. That just deepens over time. And the intimacy deepens because
we are fire tenders of intimacy. That's what it's all about. And if there's any chance for true love, you know, for stable families, for strong tribes, strong relationships, like I
know it's this. It's us honing our fire, fire keeping abilities and and it all comes back to keeping that fire within us. And so all that to say, just a huge shout out to the torch that's been handed to you by your father and your ancestors and the ways that you're continuing to stoke that fire and make it even bigger and brighter than ever before and help all these other men light
their fires. You know, so that we can be the light, we can be the warmth, we can be the safety and the the nourishment in a world that is starving. You know, for nourishment, for community, for relationship, for intimacy, for. This fulfillment, you know, which again, it all boils down the sexuality piece is just, we say it's the flower that blooms on the top of the plant that has strong roots, strong stems, strong leaves. It's just a by product ultimately.
But what we're talking about is from, you know, head to toe, just like every part of us being aligned with the men that we came here to be. So yeah, brother, I just really see you. I honor you in the season you're in. And I trust your guidance and your ancestors and your dad all having your back. And I'm grateful to be here with you feeling strong in myself while you're in this season, you know, running the business and
everything else. And I know we said this the other day, it'll be seasons for me too, man. And I know that you got my back. And it's just that's with huge gratitude and honour, man, that I, yeah, that I share this journey with you. So thank you, bro. Yeah. Likewise, brother.
Yeah, so much appreciation for, for the way that you support me and, and that we support each other and the the power that comes in too, being able to navigate our individual seasons and unite in the collected mission. That's, that's ultimately, you know, fueling each of our
movement in life. And it's a real honor to share the, the mission and the purpose with you with a brother who I feel so aligned with and supported by and in such deep relationship in connection with inside business and, and outside as brothers checking in as we have today.
This is yeah, this has been pretty much a regular session of listening and supporting each other as as we do starting our meetings with a check in and noticing if there's something that's that's there that could benefit from some massaging out, could benefit from, from some compassionate listening and counsel. So yeah, feeling really supported and and grateful to to anyone listening in and being a part of this and sharing a night intimacy and.
Thankful for all the brothers too within the MSM brotherhood as as well right? And of course, like this is shout out to all you guys, you know, this is a lot of the, you know, the behind the scenes kind of deeper work. Sometimes we're moving through outside of the training and the tools and everything else, it's just deep, deep brotherhood
support. Like when my fire goes out, I'm grateful that there's the circle of brothers who are keeping the big fire stoked and I can put my torch back in there and relight it. And that's, that's what we, that's why we gather in these ways just to remember who we are and and not get lost on our own. So yeah, big shout out to the Brotherhood. Yeah, yeah, I love you brothers.
Every single interaction and win that's shared from from one of the men in our community is a huge burst of fuel to the fire that that keeps me going and I know keeps you going and fuels us in in showing up. The the capacity to continually show up despite and amidst whatever might be moving internally to know that Oh yeah, this is so much bigger than me. And every little win, every little opportunity to support or celebrate another brother in in a way that feels so aligned is
an incredible gift. So thank you. Yeah, the ripples in time and space of just those little wins too. Like that's, that's ultimately, that's that's why I'm in this. I know that's why you're in this too. It's like man, just the smallest shifts can have such huge ripples into not just one man's life, but everyone he touches. And may we continue to deepen in coherence with that version of ourselves that is the most aligned, compassionate integris, you know, bold version of us.
Yeah, for all generations. Amen. Oh, so it is. So it is. Thank you, brother. So he's nourishing and enjoyable to sit down with you. And thanks again to anyone tuning in, I feel complete. Yeah me too bro. Thank you all for tuning in. Send a big love your way and catch you on the next one. All right, bye everyone.